When assault is worrying about it's speed, let's be honest. Is it about the run-strafe speed. Because I see assault players saying

"I will trade run for sprint any day of the week" even though fast sprinting should get you in and out of combat situations and be better.


We can have dynamic strafe speeds as well, so assault can be slower than logi, sprint faster, and still have superior strafe speed.

When assault is worrying about it's speed, let's be honest. Is it about the run-strafe speed. Because I see assault players saying

"I will trade run for sprint any day of the week" even though fast sprinting should get you in and out of combat situations and be better.


We can have dynamic strafe speeds as well, so assault can be slower than logi, sprint faster, and still have superior strafe speed.

This is going to exacerbate the extant problem, sir.

I respectfully request that you not actively provide avenues for people to exploit the hit detection in the game.

This is first, last and all reasons in between why strafing is the most important consideration. Heimdallr69 copped to as much when I called them out on it. All of the others who are crying about the change have studiously ignored my commentary.

I have repeatedly tried to bring this to light, as it is easy to use and provably effective. The fact that this is the primary and most successful "tactic" it shows that strafe speed is a problem.

Being rewarded for standing in the open and juking back and forth two meters rapidly is quite frankly nonsensical, especially when it is MOST effective within the optimal ranges of the most destructive CQC weapons in the game.

This is how a calassault duels a heavy and doesn't take more than a quarter of their shields while utterly destroying his opponent at 20m versus a boundless HMG. This is not "skill" it is a mechanical failure on the part of either the client or the server.

Nono, it just means, I have the means to always have assault and scouts have the highest strafe speed, regardless of walking/running speeds.

Nono, it just means, I have the means to always have assault and scouts have the highest strafe speed, regardless of walking/running speeds.

This is going to exacerbate the extant problem, sir.

I respectfully request that you not actively provide avenues for people to exploit the hit detection in the game.

This is first, last and all reasons in between why strafing is the most important consideration. Heimdallr69 copped to as much when I called them out on it. All of the others who are crying about the change have studiously ignored my commentary.

I have repeatedly tried to bring this to light, as it is easy to use and provably effective. The fact that this is the primary and most successful "tactic" it shows that strafe speed is a problem.

Being rewarded for standing in the open and juking back and forth two meters rapidly is quite frankly nonsensical, especially when it is MOST effective within the optimal ranges of the most destructive CQC weapons in the game.

This is how a calassault duels a heavy and doesn't take more than a quarter of their shields while utterly destroying his opponent at 20m versus a boundless HMG. This is not "skill" it is a mechanical failure on the part of either the client or the server.

Why do you think the Assault needs greater walking or strafe speed? As Breaking said standing in the open and wiggling around is not a viable strategy, nor should it ever be encouraged.

Faster sprint speed is significantly more suitable for the Assault Class. Since Assaults need to be on the front lines as often as possible and Logistics simply cannot use their equipment while sprinting.

Nono, it just means, I have the means to always have assault and scouts have the highest strafe speed, regardless of walking/running speeds.

When assault is worrying about it's speed, let's be honest. Is it about the run-strafe speed. Because I see assault players saying

"I will trade run for sprint any day of the week" even though fast sprinting should get you in and out of combat situations and be better.


We can have dynamic strafe speeds as well, so assault can be slower than logi, sprint faster, and still have superior strafe speed.

Brekaing Stuff, True Adamance, i think you guys are reacting a little harsh to this post. As i understand it, not matter how fast or slow we have actual strafe and sprinting, relatively Scouts will always be the fasterst, followed by assaults, logis, commandos then setinels.

I think theres a better way to tackle the wiggle wiggle dance beside down grading and downgrading movement. Like the MInsetinel, we've seen nomatter how slow the base speed of a suit is, it can be offset by stacking kin cats.

e.g. Wide hipfire dispersion while moving, so you can still dance but lose almost all hope of landing hits. Something creative.

[quote=Tesfa Alem]

Edit: and for the LAST TIME TESFA, Kincats DO NOT assist strafe speed. They add to sprinting speed ONLY. Strafing is a function of BASE MOVEMENT SPEED. It is a flat 90% of base movement speed.

Is there some way in which I have misapplied the conceptual aspects here?

Joking aside not directly they dont. Indirectly, simply by not equiping plates and biotics to level 5 means you can wiggle wiggle alot better than than most players.

When assault is worrying about it's speed, let's be honest. Is it about the run-strafe speed. Because I see assault players saying "I will trade run for sprint any day of the week" even though fast sprinting should get you in and out of combat situations and be better.

I believe you're correct. Though it is worth pointing out that not all assaults are of like mind; as I understand it, Ripley Riley's thinking is the polar opposite of the thinking above:

As I've said every time it comes up the only "skin in the game" I have is that the ratio itself be maintained as a game wide foundation (or if a case is solidly built against it that the ratio be abandoned as a game wide thing when it comes to balancing roles, mods, races et al).

I have no stake whatsoever in what those ratios are or which role falls where within them so long as the ratios are applied universally and equally. Without a universal and equal application of foundational vision (be it this method or another) that applies to all roles rather than cherry picks a few things, balance becomes either a bad zero sum game or a crapshoot and we stay in the same rut we've been in for years.

-continued-

why should strafe be thing in a fps.... I mean in real life you don't see guys going left and right like lunatics

When assault is worrying about it's speed, let's be honest. Is it about the run-strafe speed. Because I see assault players saying

"I will trade run for sprint any day of the week" even though fast sprinting should get you in and out of combat situations and be better.


We can have dynamic strafe speeds as well, so assault can be slower than logi, sprint faster, and still have superior strafe speed.

[formatting is off because I wrote this in notepad] Took me a few reads to fully understand what you're saying but I think I've got a rudimentary understanding
of it.

You want balanced role, mods, races and if a case be made to go against a foundation or design that it
be solidly, logically built as a justifiable reason to go against the base methods. Without an equal application
of foundational vision that applies to everything, you feel that the balancing act becomes a shot in the dark
at what works.

I don't feel this is the case because we have done some pretty awesome stuff with balance without trying to
have everything on a curve or having trade-offs, and trying to adhere to that may work logically and
mathematically but a video game isn't all about logic or math, but sometimes how something -feels-

You feel as though speed being enough to outweigh DPS potential and raw HP is a fundamental problem. I feel that
this stems from different views on what Assaults actually are designed for, which is a consequence of it not
having a pre-determined role. It's abstract and left to interpretation, but neither of our interpretations are
necessarily wrong and they shouldn't be viewed as wrong.

This has always been the case but it's not something we can fix. Hit detection issues are and have always been
prevailant and yes, it's something we take advantage of -because- it is viable and is a fundamental part of speed
tanking.

There is an entire game skill dedicated to this, its
nothing new, Regnyum has a video on strafing tactics and a lot of high-end slayers are known for their ability
to strafe. Are you insinuating that we should work to ensure strafing is -NOT- a viable tactic as a whole?
If so, I'm okay with that, but it needs to apply to everyone, not just Assaults. It needs to apply to Logis and
Scouts as well.

I feel as though your obsession with a base method and a foundation is blinding you to the needs and desires
of your community. Yes, we understand hit detection is an issue. Yes, we understand that strafing is a problem.
Yes, we know that without strafing, we're entirely reliant on EHP. We also understand that many in the community
dislike this - but it is what part of the game's entire culture is founded on. As previously stated, if it is
an issue, than it needs to be quashed across the entire spectrum, not just with Assaults.

I understand and agree with your sentiment toward "The thing" but this isn't an effort to make Assaults "the thing"
it's an effort to keep Assaults a viable playstyle that, without a unique and applicable role, has largely
been associated with slayer-ship. Your community is asking to retain the things we value most with the role
that we have carved the Assault into. The values that were designed to pull us from other roles into the Assault
-because- we were using other roles for what we desired to do (and will continue to do so, even if that role is
with the Logistics).

It's not "don't touch any Assault numbers except the min assault", I'm not that obtuse, I'm saying that we
want the Assaults to retain their functionality and the role that we basically had to make ourselves because
they don't really have one that's unique to them. The proposal was to hit their speed. We said that wasn't
in our favor because we need speed. The proposal shifted to changing sprint speed. We said that wasn't
in our favor because movement/strafe speed is more valuable than sprint speed because we are combatants -
we don't need help getting TO the battle, we need help surviving it in the first place. Now we are being told
that our desire for that is a fundamental problem...

What can we do to make a happy compromise, here? What way can we retain what we desire and need to adhere to our
chosen specialization without moving/speccing into another suit while also going with the desire for a consistent
method?

I think there is meret to giving assauots more sprint speed so that they can apply pressure more readily, but strafe speed is the main reason assaults have such a lead in kills/spawn over other suits. It is hard to strafe as a commando/sentinel because you simply aren't as fast. Super straify, 650eHP cal scouts also do this strategy, and high hp + speed means hard to kill suits. And whether or not hit detection is an issue, you do have people from all around the world with different quality internet connections playing together, and some people benefit from their lack of relative connection quality. Especially people who change position rapidly.

Let us not forget that assaults suits have the highest kills/spawn, and their ubiquity on the battlefield is likely indicative of their performance. They have speed, and hp, so they can tank well, and twitch back and forth. There is a reason that this proposal was created in the first place. I urge any developers read this to not focus too much on feedback from players that want theor suits to be powerful, and try looking at the data.

I urge the developers to not simply look at everything as bias because of the contradictory views that the forums have.

1) You either don't play the playstyle/specialization, and don't know what you're talking about
2) You do play the playstyle/specialization, and are bias

There's no winning. It's not about wanting our suits to be powerful, we all want our suits be powerful, we just don't want to go -back- to not being viable.

We can have dynamic strafe speeds as well, so assault can be slower than logi, sprint faster, and still have superior strafe speed.