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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 31 post(s) |
Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
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Posted - 2015.05.27 09:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
Okay this may seem a bit ranty, but its just my observations, no dev bashing here.
I'm all for across the board consistency.
Here the assaults suits are getting a really big nerf. From what i can tell from the picture, logis get 0.25 m/s buff, the assault suits roughly 0.5 m/s speed nerf, commandos .35 roughly speed buff.
The Min Assault will be as fast the current Min Logi. Caldari and Gallente as slow as the current Amarr logi. And that is really, really slow. The Amarr assaults are gettin the speed of current heavy suits. Oh wow. Thats a little too much Mr. Rattati.
In a Foot race, post changes, guessing roughly of course.
1. Min scout 5.7 m/s
2. Gal Scout Caldari Scout 5.4 m/s
3. Amarr scout, Min Logi 5.25 m/s
4. Gal Logi, Caldari Logi, Min Basic 5 m/s
5. Min Assult 4.85 m/s
6. Amarr Logi, Gallente basic, Caldari Basic 4.75 m/s
7. Gallente Assult, Caldari Assault, Amarr Basic, Minmatar commando 4.6 m/s
8. Amarr assault, Caldari Commando, Gallente Commando, Min heavy basic 4.4 m/s
10. Minmatar Setinel 4.25 m/s
11. Amarr commando, caldari heavy, gallente heavy 4.2 m/s
12.Caldari setinel, gellente setinel 3.9 m/s
13. Amarr heavy 4.85 m/s
14. Amarr setinel 3.6 m/s
With the planned tiericide, I confidently predict the return of the slayer Logi. Identical slots, more fitting space, and now faster than the assault suits.
After all, the Min Logi will have a 4/4/4 slot layout at all tiers, and is getting the min assaut speed. Fit militia equipment to free up fitting space and the ADV min logi becomes the current Proto Min Assault. You can apply the same logic to the other assaults with dare i say it, lackluster bonuses. A cal logi with 5/3/3 slots or a slower caldari assault that can reload. Gal logi with extra fitting space or a slow gal assault that has less dispersion? And the Amarr assult....well might as well run a commando or heavy suit instead, more HP and more fire power, and identical if not faster speeds.
I can't wait for the forums will begin to erupt about the min logi's s hit box detection, etc etc. Pretty much every thing they spull out of thier butts about the min assault witll be applied to the min Logi.
Suggetion: Tighten up the assault speeds. Start the minmatar at 5.1 m.s, Gal calari at 4.9 and end with the Amarr at 4.6 m/s Slightly slower than thier respective racial logis, but certainly faster then comandos.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
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Posted - 2015.05.27 11:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:
I appreciate the thought, but there is a reason I am trying to move away from "feelings" and more to math and facts. The design needs to make sense, and players trade speed for tank, that's why dropsuits need to fit on the curve. If you don't want less speed, then the only way is less tank, but we already buffed tank for a reason and I don't want to change that. Speed has never been normalized properly before, and it needs to be done on a stable foundation, i.e. the speed/ehp curve.
True, and i'm not knocking the logic of what your putting together. As I understand it, you want the fastest member of one class to be at the same speed as the slowest member of the next class, because each class has higher potential eHP.
Fastest medium = slowest light suit
Fastest heavy suit = Slowest medium suit.
Overall its pretty decent with the exception of the Amarr Assault.
A Assault has roughly 200 more ehp than the Amarr logi bout half a meter slower.
GA and CA commandos with 200 more base eHP will be same speed as A. Assault.
Min commando with roughly 170 more eHP will be faster than A.Assault.
So instead of a smooth curve, theres a big dip for the A. Assaults and a spike for the commandos.
I'm suggestion this can be smoothed out by slightly increasing the proposed speed changes for the assault class, and slight decrease for the commando changes. Not by much, just by 0.5 meter in either direction.
The fastest heavy suits is the Min commando, and the Amarr assault being the slowest medium suit, thier speeds should be roughly the same. Then you have a smooth balanced curve of speed and eHP.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
1
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Posted - 2015.05.27 12:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:
That's not necessary actually, it just works out that way because such a system is linear as well. Instead, the suits have been placed on the curve, so as to give that impression, and because it is intuitive, to a degree. But you can also place a dropsuit on the curve without it fitting on the "max X = min Y", and it will still be normalized.
Also, you have to take the brick fit into account. If you do that, you actully see that commandos are still below a fictional line through the data set, and assault above, etc, indicating the strengths and weaknesses of each role. Of course you don't need to brick, so everyone should be able to find an acceptable niche for his/her playstyle.
The brick fit may come into play after you implement another slot on commandos.
As of now, the heaviest possible bricked Cal commandos will be faster than any tier Amarr Assault with two plates on it because calmandos only have 1 low slot.
A max bricked Minando will be faster than any Amarr Assault with 2 identical plates, because proto minandos have two low slots. Other wise any adv/standard minando will be faster than any tier Amarr suit with 2 plates.
Proto Galmando with three low slots bricked may be on par via speed with an Amarr assault that dedicates 3 slots to eHP but have superior reps. ADV galmando will be faster than any amarr assault
Unbricked amarr assaults will certainly be slower than max bricked adv/standard commandos, and most likeley be slower than two max bricked proto commandos. IMO its bit unbalanced, especially for a race thats supposed to stack HP.
I can tell that i'm gettin a bit too back-and-forth with this. Delving into hypothertical situations a bit much. Feedback doesn't mean debating your work. Concerning assaults i got some faith in ya.
It will just need a comparision with your brick tanked chart. See how fast each suit can move tanked, and then polish of any edges.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
"I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
1
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Posted - 2015.05.28 10:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
I am very impressed with changes you have made. TL;DR from the last two pages.
- Logis walk faster (every one who tried keeping up with a moving squad with rep tool will appreciate this).
- Assaults sprint retained (keeping high mobilitiy and getting from one place to another). You walk slower, but have burst of energy for movement.
- Assaults get an over all movement buff (sprint speed and stamina regen) instead of a straight minmatar nerf to keep with proper ratio. So the amarr assults will walk slower than commandos, but have a much higher burst of speed, more stamina, so they move better.
- Logis must fill equipment slot (no brainer for any real logi)
- Amarr logi keeps its sidearm
- Commando buff (movement speed and a slot)
For a hotfix, man this is some good stuff. I enjoy good tradeoff systems, and this is shaping up to reflect that. The only OCD request I have is update the OP or put the new adjustments in the last few pages in a new thread. This you'll avoid alot of QQ comments to come, continue a feedback discussion, rather than reactions to the first post.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
"I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
1
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Posted - 2015.05.29 11:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:
Nono, it just means, I have the means to always have assault and scouts have the highest strafe speed, regardless of walking/running speeds.
Brekaing Stuff, True Adamance, i think you guys are reacting a little harsh to this post. As i understand it, not matter how fast or slow we have actual strafe and sprinting, relatively Scouts will always be the fasterst, followed by assaults, logis, commandos then setinels.
I think theres a better way to tackle the wiggle wiggle dance beside down grading and downgrading movement. Like the MInsetinel, we've seen nomatter how slow the base speed of a suit is, it can be offset by stacking kin cats.
e.g. Wide hipfire dispersion while moving, so you can still dance but lose almost all hope of landing hits. Something creative.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
"I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
1
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Posted - 2015.05.29 12:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:[quote=Tesfa Alem]
Edit: and for the LAST TIME TESFA, Kincats DO NOT assist strafe speed. They add to sprinting speed ONLY. Strafing is a function of BASE MOVEMENT SPEED. It is a flat 90% of base movement speed.
verbal abuse.....
Joking aside not directly they dont. Indirectly, simply by not equiping plates and biotics to level 5 means you can wiggle wiggle alot better than than most players.
Just an example, a cal scout with no plates and biotics level 5 has a 8% faster base speed than a identical cal scout with no biotics and a single basic plate ( 5% + plate penalty).
A Speed tanked heavy suit has something like 13% more base movement speed than a heavy with two adv plates and armor rep, let alone the complex plated brick tanks. That difference could go as high as 20% if you compare two amarr heavies, one with no plates + bitoics to level 5 to three complex plates.
Factor in the speed differences between classes and races, sprinting ability escpecially among keyboard and mouse users, and man does it add up. Your arent going to be able to outwiggle somebody who has less tank than you, and thier kincats speed boost mean they choose when to engage.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
"I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
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