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Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4	Posted - 2015.05.28 19:40:00 - [481] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Buff the other stuff .... If Assaults were held constant and all else balanced around them, then we'd have to buff Scout HP potential or Speed. This isn't a popular idea, and it shouldn't be. Buffing Scout movement or sprint speed would very likely cause hit detection issues. Buffing Scout HP (or adding to its slot count) could bring about another round of 1.8 Assault Lite. In my opinion, balancing Scouts around High Mobility, High HP Assaults would cause more problems than it would solve. But eHp isn't on the table, it's speed. I wouldn't mind assaults having LOGI health if their speed remained. I'll say it again: Not taking damage trumps having more damage to take. Establishing a proper baseline inverse ratio between eHP and speed is the purpose and point. The method for doing it is currently talking about tweaks to speed not HP but the goal is the proper ratio. CPM 1 mail me your feedback and remember to have fun!
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 10	Posted - 2015.05.28 19:41:00 - [482] - Quote hails8n wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: If hitbox size were a bigger survivability factor than speed or HP, then Scout and Light Frame kill/spawn efficiency would be at the top of the pile rather than the bottom. Right? Except for when they were, right? Correct. Before the High Speed / High HP Min Assaults were FoTM, High Speed / High HP Scouts were FoTM. There's a pattern here. Assault Lite shouldn't be allowed to happen again, and a system which appropriately enforces a tradeoff between Speed and HP would prevent it from happening again. No one -- especially Scouts -- wants to see a return of Scout 514. Yeah, but thats what dust is about. Heavy snipers, fast assaults, fast heavies, tanked scouts. To the extent that they are not imbalanced, absolutely! The contention here is that Fast Assaults aren't balanced. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC 1	Posted - 2015.05.28 19:50:00 - [483] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Buff the other stuff .... If Assaults were held constant and all else balanced around them, then we'd have to buff Scout HP potential or Speed. This isn't a popular idea, and it shouldn't be. Buffing Scout movement or sprint speed would very likely cause hit detection issues. Buffing Scout HP (or adding to its slot count) could bring about another round of 1.8 Assault Lite. In my opinion, balancing Scouts around High Mobility, High HP Assaults would cause more problems than it would solve. But eHp isn't on the table, it's speed. I wouldn't mind assaults having LOGI health if their speed remained. I'll say it again: Not taking damage trumps having more damage to take. Then go back to bricktanking a Scout suit, thats the playstyle you're describing (speed > all for slaying) so must be what you'd normally be doing. NEXT IN LINE!! Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
Sleepy Shadow Qualified Scrub 387	Posted - 2015.05.28 19:50:00 - [484] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Buff the other stuff .... If Assaults were held constant and all else balanced around them, then we'd have to buff Scout HP potential or Speed. This isn't a popular idea, and it shouldn't be. Buffing Scout movement or sprint speed would very likely cause hit detection issues. Buffing Scout HP (or adding to its slot count) could bring about another round of 1.8 Assault Lite. In my opinion, balancing Scouts around High Mobility, High HP Assaults would cause more problems than it would solve. This whole curve is ridiculous when you do not take into account different roles and what they are supposed to be doing and how. You cannot balance suits this way. Why on earth would scouts need a speed or HP buff if assaults retain their speed? And no, because it fits on your pretty picture is not a reason. Scouts rely on not being seen and their speed as is, is sufficient to support this and so is their HP. If scouts are lacking in the EWAR department then buff that so that they can do their sneaky-stabby business and infiltrate the enemy side. Give them higher bandwidth while youGÇÖre at it. We can all agree that the Minmitar assault is overstepping its intended role into the scout territory and we can all agree that it needs fixing. But kicking all the assaults in the process is unnecessary. This whole graph and conversation is so absurd. =ƒÿ¦
Baal Omniscient Qualified Scrub 2	Posted - 2015.05.28 19:53:00 - [485] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Buff the other stuff .... If Assaults were held constant and all else balanced around them, then we'd have to buff Scout HP potential or Speed. This isn't a popular idea, and it shouldn't be. Buffing Scout movement or sprint speed would very likely cause hit detection issues. Buffing Scout HP (or adding to its slot count) could bring about another round of 1.8 Assault Lite. In my opinion, balancing Scouts around High Mobility, High HP Assaults would cause more problems than it would solve. But eHp isn't on the table, it's speed. I wouldn't mind assaults having LOGI health if their speed remained. I'll say it again: Not taking damage trumps having more damage to take. Establishing a proper baseline inverse ratio between eHP and speed is the purpose and point. The method for doing it is currently talking about tweaks to speed not HP but the goal is the proper ratio. But balance in what way? Combat efficacy? Role fulfillment? The thing is that certain suits are expected to be good a certain things. Having speed and eHp all perfectly lined up in a chart looks nice but does not take into account all facets involved. That said, I understand that no reasonable approach can take everything into account. The variables are far too diverse and dependant on relatively unpredictable human behavior on top of it. However the power balance isn't fixed by changing things drastically because you have a pretty chart where the dots line up in a pleasing pattern, it's done by making small changes in the direction that you think will help while gathering data as you go. I understand the idea behind this, but the assault at it's most bare is a run and gun class. When you take the run out of it, you are basically making another heavy suit with a smaller hitbox. Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0 I GÖú Puppies (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.*pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC 1	Posted - 2015.05.28 19:54:00 - [486] - Quote Songs of Seraphim wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: ... SlayerLogis aren't coming back like you think, never were. Question about that set of figures that does finally appear on page 17, are those cpu/pg values proposed the final values? Pre-skills values? And 10% fitting on eq, that is also in addition to existing logi bonuses, correct? Are eq load costs going to be modified at all? Are those eq bonuses going to be flat or racially varied? I've kept up on the logistics/support thread and recognize much of this stemming from there so definitley see the progress but the last 20 pages is resteering us into overall wash territory at risk of nerfs. Give CalLogi the sidearm. Buff the speeds, and most of the rest of the base stats. Don't swap for other existing, end of the day logis are still combat gimped relative to ALL other combat frames by virtue of (even after buffs) still significantly lower hp, no weapon bonuses and fitting limits. If theres an issue with Assault bonuses and their utility handle that like it is- a separate issue . End point is EVERY other frame has received a healthy round of buffing to keep pace with the last year and a half of meta-shifts except Logis. We got armor regen returned, sort of, but otherwise we're still living the penalties of an unrepeatable era. We need some small buffing tweaks and thats it. Small. But we need buffing. Except actual Caldari Logistics would PREFER a FOURTH EQUIPMENT slot rather than the 4th low slot or sidearm. I have my Caldari Assault for the damn sidearm. -.- Again, I'm all for the buffing of Commando and Logistic roles, but not at the expense of the Assault role. Thanks, I run CalLogi every day, have for a loong time now. NEXT IN LINE!!! Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC 1	Posted - 2015.05.28 19:57:00 - [487] - Quote LOL @ everyone who fails at recognizing what graphs/dataplots are. Just so much fail in here.... Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
hails8n DEATH BY DESTRUCTION 246	Posted - 2015.05.28 20:01:00 - [488] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: hails8n wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: If hitbox size were a bigger survivability factor than speed or HP, then Scout and Light Frame kill/spawn efficiency would be at the top of the pile rather than the bottom. Right? Except for when they were, right? Correct. Before the High Speed / High HP Min Assaults were FoTM, High Speed / High HP Scouts were FoTM. There's a pattern here. Assault Lite shouldn't be allowed to happen again, and a system which appropriately enforces a tradeoff between Speed and HP would prevent it from happening again. No one -- especially Scouts -- wants to see a return of Scout 514. Yeah, but thats what dust is about. Heavy snipers, fast assaults, fast heavies, tanked scouts. To the extent that they are not imbalanced, absolutely! The contention here is that Fast Assaults aren't balanced. The only fast assault is the min assault. It was always supposed to border between being a scout and an assault.Just like amarr scouts border between being a scout and an assault. I think the real problem was when alll minmatar suits got an hp buff, the min assault was balanced to me back then at least after the slot layout increase. I'd rather have its hp nerfed over speed, because speed is what min assaults are all about, but when an 800 hp suit is running at you at 9 meters per sec, whats the point of owning a scout then. So id be debating on an hp Nerf. Petition to ban the trainyard map.
Songs of Seraphim Negative-Feedback. 1	Posted - 2015.05.28 20:04:00 - [489] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Songs of Seraphim wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: ... SlayerLogis aren't coming back like you think, never were. Question about that set of figures that does finally appear on page 17, are those cpu/pg values proposed the final values? Pre-skills values? And 10% fitting on eq, that is also in addition to existing logi bonuses, correct? Are eq load costs going to be modified at all? Are those eq bonuses going to be flat or racially varied? I've kept up on the logistics/support thread and recognize much of this stemming from there so definitley see the progress but the last 20 pages is resteering us into overall wash territory at risk of nerfs. Give CalLogi the sidearm. Buff the speeds, and most of the rest of the base stats. Don't swap for other existing, end of the day logis are still combat gimped relative to ALL other combat frames by virtue of (even after buffs) still significantly lower hp, no weapon bonuses and fitting limits. If theres an issue with Assault bonuses and their utility handle that like it is- a separate issue . End point is EVERY other frame has received a healthy round of buffing to keep pace with the last year and a half of meta-shifts except Logis. We got armor regen returned, sort of, but otherwise we're still living the penalties of an unrepeatable era. We need some small buffing tweaks and thats it. Small. But we need buffing. Except actual Caldari Logistics would PREFER a FOURTH EQUIPMENT slot rather than the 4th low slot or sidearm. I have my Caldari Assault for the damn sidearm. -.- Again, I'm all for the buffing of Commando and Logistic roles, but not at the expense of the Assault role. Thanks, I run CalLogi every day, have for a loong time now. NEXT IN LINE!!! Then you should see the need for that additional equipment slot, rather than a sidearm (which would most likely be a Bolt Pistol at that). Unless you're pushing your own agenda. And here I believed you'd be a tad more constructive. Oh well. Caldari Loyalist Join Caldari FW via Kirjuun Saaja
Baal Omniscient Qualified Scrub 2	Posted - 2015.05.28 20:05:00 - [490] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Buff the other stuff .... If Assaults were held constant and all else balanced around them, then we'd have to buff Scout HP potential or Speed. This isn't a popular idea, and it shouldn't be. Buffing Scout movement or sprint speed would very likely cause hit detection issues. Buffing Scout HP (or adding to its slot count) could bring about another round of 1.8 Assault Lite. In my opinion, balancing Scouts around High Mobility, High HP Assaults would cause more problems than it would solve. But eHp isn't on the table, it's speed. I wouldn't mind assaults having LOGI health if their speed remained. I'll say it again: Not taking damage trumps having more damage to take. Then go back to bricktanking a Scout suit, thats the playstyle you're describing (speed > all for slaying) so must be what you'd normally be doing. NEXT IN LINE!! Um. Learn how to read maybe? I've been assault since Chromosome and Minmatar assault since 1.0. Your logic is invalid. As is your reading ability. Painfully obvious if you glance at the sig AND know how to read. Speed and small hitbox on scouts on top of Ewar was ridiculous and I fought it every day. Now that they are scannable, their eHp plays a bigger role than it did before but good scouts still do very well for themselves. TL;DR: Your arguments, all of them, are invalid. Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0 I GÖú Puppies (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.*pâ+n+ín+ƒ.

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 10	Posted - 2015.05.28 20:06:00 - [491] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Looking at a lot of the discussion and what Rattati has posted so far I do think it's good to correlate Base HP to movement. I would say though that it is critically important to take into account HP, walk speed, sprint speed, stamina, and stamina regeneration in a complete picture and make sure that the way those stats are set the logistics suits and assault suits are best able to fulfill their roles. If walk speed correlates to strafe speed and that's the most important combat movement in people's mind then the assault should probably have the best walk speed. After that take HP to Movement curve and adjust the other stats (sprint speed modifier, stamina, stamina regeneration) so it falls in line. Good idea. Maybe we're looking at mobility backwards. Sprint: Logi > Assault. Movement: Assaults > Logi. Will put together some numbers later today Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Baal Omniscient Qualified Scrub 2	Posted - 2015.05.28 20:08:00 - [492] - Quote hails8n wrote: The only fast assault is the min assault. It was always supposed to border between being a scout and an assault.Just like amarr scouts border between being a scout and an assault. I think the real problem was when alll minmatar suits got an hp buff, the min assault was balanced to me back then at least after the slot layout increase. I'd rather have its hp nerfed over speed, because speed is what min assaults are all about, but when an 800 hp suit is running at you at 9 meters per sec, whats the point of owning a scout then. So id be debating on an hp Nerf. Beat me to it, so...... This ^ Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0 I GÖú Puppies (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.*pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
Scheneighnay McBob Tribal Liberation Force Paramilitary 7	Posted - 2015.05.28 20:11:00 - [493] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Archduke Ferd1nand wrote: Rattati, I beg of you: Adjust eHP instead of speed for assault if they don't fit on the curve. They've needed an HP nerf for a while. Don't screw with their mobility though. That would be like giving the scrambler rifle ridiculous kick or something to balance it, instead of just nerfing the damage a tiny bit. HP is the problem here, and I can personally promise that. They have so many slots that they can use kincats, is my opinion. I'm in support of the change, but tbh, kincats don't do much. Slower suits especially: increasing a slow movement speed by a percentage is barely an increase; whoever at CCP is making these prefit-suits needs to realize that, and stop trying to put kincats on commandos. It raises their sprint speed by like, .3 Aloha snackbar
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 10	Posted - 2015.05.28 20:15:00 - [494] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: hails8n wrote: The only fast assault is the min assault. It was always supposed to border between being a scout and an assault.Just like amarr scouts border between being a scout and an assault. I think the real problem was when alll minmatar suits got an hp buff, the min assault was balanced to me back then at least after the slot layout increase. I'd rather have its hp nerfed over speed, because speed is what min assaults are all about, but when an 800 hp suit is running at you at 9 meters per sec, whats the point of owning a scout then. So id be debating on an hp Nerf. Beat me to it, so...... This ^ Min Assault is the fastest assault but it isn't the only fast assault. Click back a few pages for a 900 HP, 9 m/s GalAssault loadout. If we deleted MInAssaults, these would be the next best high-speed, high-hp units. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Baal Omniscient Qualified Scrub 2	Posted - 2015.05.28 20:18:00 - [495] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Archduke Ferd1nand wrote: Rattati, I beg of you: Adjust eHP instead of speed for assault if they don't fit on the curve. They've needed an HP nerf for a while. Don't screw with their mobility though. That would be like giving the scrambler rifle ridiculous kick or something to balance it, instead of just nerfing the damage a tiny bit. HP is the problem here, and I can personally promise that. They have so many slots that they can use kincats, is my opinion. I'm in support of the change, but tbh, kincats don't do much. Slower suits especially: increasing a slow movement speed by a percentage is barely an increase; whoever at CCP is making these prefit-suits needs to realize that, and stop trying to put kincats on commandos. It raises their sprint speed by like, .3 I'm not in support of the change, but I agree with your point. if kincats gave a flat mps increase then I could possibly agree with that Ratatti's point, but the slower you make the suit, the less relevant kincats become. Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0 I GÖú Puppies (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.*pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC 1	Posted - 2015.05.28 20:21:00 - [496] - Quote Songs of Seraphim wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Songs of Seraphim wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: ... SlayerLogis aren't coming back like you think, never were. Question about that set of figures that does finally appear on page 17, are those cpu/pg values proposed the final values? Pre-skills values? And 10% fitting on eq, that is also in addition to existing logi bonuses, correct? Are eq load costs going to be modified at all? Are those eq bonuses going to be flat or racially varied? I've kept up on the logistics/support thread and recognize much of this stemming from there so definitley see the progress but the last 20 pages is resteering us into overall wash territory at risk of nerfs. Give CalLogi the sidearm. Buff the speeds, and most of the rest of the base stats. Don't swap for other existing, end of the day logis are still combat gimped relative to ALL other combat frames by virtue of (even after buffs) still significantly lower hp, no weapon bonuses and fitting limits. If theres an issue with Assault bonuses and their utility handle that like it is- a separate issue . End point is EVERY other frame has received a healthy round of buffing to keep pace with the last year and a half of meta-shifts except Logis. We got armor regen returned, sort of, but otherwise we're still living the penalties of an unrepeatable era. We need some small buffing tweaks and thats it. Small. But we need buffing. Except actual Caldari Logistics would PREFER a FOURTH EQUIPMENT slot rather than the 4th low slot or sidearm. I have my Caldari Assault for the damn sidearm. -.- Again, I'm all for the buffing of Commando and Logistic roles, but not at the expense of the Assault role. Thanks, I run CalLogi every day, have for a loong time now. NEXT IN LINE!!! Then you should see the need for that additional equipment slot, rather than a sidearm (which would most likely be a Bolt Pistol at that). Unless you're pushing your own agenda. And here I believed you'd be a tad more constructive. Oh well. Nope, the bolt pistol and I aren't friends. Sidearm> extra hives or unbonused eq. for the Cal. Want my agenda? Go read the 80-90 page Logistics/Support thread. Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC 1	Posted - 2015.05.28 20:25:00 - [497] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Buff the other stuff .... If Assaults were held constant and all else balanced around them, then we'd have to buff Scout HP potential or Speed. This isn't a popular idea, and it shouldn't be. Buffing Scout movement or sprint speed would very likely cause hit detection issues. Buffing Scout HP (or adding to its slot count) could bring about another round of 1.8 Assault Lite. In my opinion, balancing Scouts around High Mobility, High HP Assaults would cause more problems than it would solve. But eHp isn't on the table, it's speed. I wouldn't mind assaults having LOGI health if their speed remained. I'll say it again: Not taking damage trumps having more damage to take. Then go back to bricktanking a Scout suit, thats the playstyle you're describing (speed > all for slaying) so must be what you'd normally be doing. NEXT IN LINE!! Um. Learn how to read maybe? I've been assault since Chromosome and Minmatar assault since 1.0. Your logic is invalid. As is your reading ability. Painfully obvious if you glance at the sig AND know how to read. Speed and small hitbox on scouts on top of Ewar was ridiculous and I fought it every day. Now that they are scannable, their eHp plays a bigger role than it did before but good scouts still do very well for themselves. TL;DR: Your arguments, all of them, are invalid. You prefer speed over hp. Go get a Scout. ^Read THAT. Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
Kalante Schiffer Ancient Exiles. 1	Posted - 2015.05.28 20:27:00 - [498] - Quote i guess is time to skill into the slayer gall logi. The only reason i did not use it is because it is slow but now that it will be faster i wont have any second thoughts and i get to fit scans. thank's AE. C.B2013
Songs of Seraphim Negative-Feedback. 1	Posted - 2015.05.28 20:30:00 - [499] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Nope, the bolt pistol and I aren't friends. Sidearm> extra hives or unbonused eq. for the Cal. Want my agenda? Go read the 80-90 page Logistics/Support thread. Sidearm isn't as beneficial to a support role than Uplinks or Scanners. Even without a bonus to the equipment, it's beneficial to have as a support role. Not even the Gallente Logi uses more than 2 of its own EQ. And I have been keeping up with Cross' thread up until page 74 or so. Please, please keep it constructive because I'm all but losing respect for you I gained in that thread. Caldari Loyalist Join Caldari FW via Kirjuun Saaja
hails8n DEATH BY DESTRUCTION 246	Posted - 2015.05.28 20:36:00 - [500] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: hails8n wrote: The only fast assault is the min assault. It was always supposed to border between being a scout and an assault.Just like amarr scouts border between being a scout and an assault. I think the real problem was when alll minmatar suits got an hp buff, the min assault was balanced to me back then at least after the slot layout increase. I'd rather have its hp nerfed over speed, because speed is what min assaults are all about, but when an 800 hp suit is running at you at 9 meters per sec, whats the point of owning a scout then. So id be debating on an hp Nerf. Beat me to it, so...... This ^ Min Assault is the fastest assault but it isn't the only fast assault. Click back a few pages for a 900 HP, 9 m/s GalAssault loadout. If we deleted MInAssaults, these would be the next best high-speed, high-hp units. I've played all assaults with stacked kincats. Min assault gets the highest speed to hp ratio, coupled with the best stamina regen. Petition to ban the trainyard map.

Baal Omniscient Qualified Scrub 2	Posted - 2015.05.28 20:37:00 - [501] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Then go back to bricktanking a Scout suit, thats the playstyle you're describing (speed > all for slaying) so must be what you'd normally be doing. NEXT IN LINE!! Um. Learn how to read maybe? I've been assault since Chromosome and Minmatar assault since 1.0. Your logic is invalid. As is your reading ability. Painfully obvious if you glance at the sig AND know how to read. Speed and small hitbox on scouts on top of Ewar was ridiculous and I fought it every day. Now that they are scannable, their eHp plays a bigger role than it did before but good scouts still do very well for themselves. TL;DR: Your arguments, all of them, are invalid. You prefer speed over hp. Go get a Scout. ^Read THAT. Your frothing at the mouth quirks are amusing, but don't really change anything from what has already been said. And I've got too much class to be trotting around in a skinsuit. Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0 I GÖú Puppies (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.*pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.05.28 20:39:00 - [502] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: You prefer speed over hp. Go get a Scout. ^Read THAT. NEXT PLEASE! Stopped using regular armour plates months ago. Speed > Armour "Crush all who complain!" `- Arkena Wyrnspire`
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC 1	Posted - 2015.05.28 20:49:00 - [503] - Quote Songs of Seraphim wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Nope, the bolt pistol and I aren't friends. Sidearm> extra hives or unbonused eq. for the Cal. Want my agenda? Go read the 80-90 page Logistics/Support thread. Sidearm isn't as beneficial to a support role than Uplinks or Scanners. Even without a bonus to the equipment, it's beneficial to have as a support role. Not even the Gallente Logi uses more than 2 of its own EQ. And I have been keeping up with Cross' thread up until page 74 or so. Please, please keep it constructive because I'm all but losing respect for you I gained in that thread. Constructive for whom, exactly? The ***** crying about hypotheticals that won't materalise? Or the *** who insist Logis only play one way? Or the ***** crafting spreadsheets and graphs that undo the 74 pages you did read and the other 20 behind them so that, if for no other reason, they can sneak in their own new buffs along the way. The balance is done. After page 17 in here, when the rest of the idea was put forward, the critisism and undermining should have STOPPED. But instead theres just page after page of theorycrapted garbage. I'm in the support thread being constructive. I'm in here passing out all the STFU I can serve. NewsFlash: I run GalLogi every day too and guess what? Its entire slotset is scanners. Thatd be more than 2. Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC 1	Posted - 2015.05.28 20:52:00 - [504] - Quote NEXT. IN. LINE!!!! Open-Beta Vet. Egbinger Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 10	Posted - 2015.05.28 20:52:00 - [505] - Quote True Adamance wrote: No a one uses speed reducing HP modules. Speed > Armour I suspect that usage rates will indicate otherwise. According to thang.dk, all forms of Armor are very popular at the moment and they have been for quite some time. Basic and Enhanced Plates always make the Top 10, and they usually outsell Reactive and Ferro. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Georgia Xavier Y.A.M.A.H No Context 572	Posted - 2015.05.28 21:02:00 - [506] - Quote Hey guys, let's try and adapt to whatever comes first before we make a decision. We may find a work around for our desired suits. If it is truly a problem then CCP Raticate will surely come with spreadsheets as his sword and shield but for now, let's try and have fun. That's what a videogame is for right? Instead of imagining that we rip each other's guts why don't we try and have some fun? Click me
Songs of Seraphim Negative-Feedback. 1	Posted - 2015.05.28 21:05:00 - [507] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Songs of Seraphim wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Nope, the bolt pistol and I aren't friends. Sidearm> extra hives or unbonused eq. for the Cal. Want my agenda? Go read the 80-90 page Logistics/Support thread. Sidearm isn't as beneficial to a support role than Uplinks or Scanners. Even without a bonus to the equipment, it's beneficial to have as a support role. Not even the Gallente Logi uses more than 2 of its own EQ. And I have been keeping up with Cross' thread up until page 74 or so. Please, please keep it constructive because I'm all but losing respect for you I gained in that thread. Constructive for whom, exactly? The ***** crying about hypotheticals that won't materalise? Or the *** who insist Logis only play one way? Or the ***** crafting spreadsheets and graphs that undo the 74 pages you did read and the other 20 behind them so that, if for no other reason, they can sneak in their own new buffs along the way. The balance is done. After page 17 in here, when the rest of the idea was put forward, the critisism and undermining should have STOPPED. But instead theres just page after page of theorycrapted garbage. I'm in the support thread being constructive. I'm in here passing out all the STFU I can serve. NewsFlash: I run GalLogi every day too and guess what? Its entire slotset is scanners. Thatd be more than 2. And now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing. Caldari Loyalist Join Caldari FW via Kirjuun Saaja
Baal Omniscient Qualified Scrub 2	Posted - 2015.05.28 21:06:00 - [508] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: hails8n wrote: The only fast assault is the min assault. It was always supposed to border between being a scout and an assault.Just like amarr scouts border between being a scout and an assault. I think the real problem was when alll minmatar suits got an hp buff, the min assault was balanced to me back then at least after the slot layout increase. I'd rather have its hp nerfed over speed, because speed is what min assaults are all about, but when an 800 hp suit is running at you at 9 meters per sec, whats the point of owning a scout then. So id be debating on an hp Nerf. Beat me to it, so...... This ^ Min Assault is the fastest assault but it isn't the only fast assault. Click back a few pages for a 900 HP, 9 m/s GalAssault loadout. If we deleted MInAssaults, these would be the next best high-speed, high-hp units. High speed high hp suicide suits don't really matter when you are talking about survivability. Sure it can run 9m/sec for a bout few seconds, then wait twice as long to run again. If damaged at any point, waiting almost 12 seconds for shields to start coming back at measly 20 HP/sec is laughable. Not to mention that armour repair... Why even add plates if it takes you 3.5 MINUTES to get back? The only good thing about this suit is that if you manage your stamina properly, don't get scanned and manage to get close, your suit has a shotgun bonus. Beyond that though this is a suicide suit. Slayer suits are self sustaining and built around a playstyle the suit itself is made for and that suit is a blatant attempt at showing off certain stats possible while ignoring it's glaring failures. It's easily scanned, even passively, it's got not got nearly enough stamina or stamina recovery to accentuate it's speed (which is why the Minmatar suit works so well) and it has no means of properly healing it's health in a meaningful way. So in short, your example is sorely lacking. You show it's possible to have a decent speed with ok eHp, but you also show at the same time how bad you are at fitting suits. And I don't mean that mockingly, I sincerely mean that it would take intentional effort to make a suit less survivable than this. Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0 I GÖú Puppies (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.*pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
Bright Steel Horizons' Edge No Context 1	Posted - 2015.05.28 21:17:00 - [509] - Quote I think ratitati needs to do what he had in mind with balancing speed vrs HP and everyone just needs to shut up and take it. It needs to be done and should have been done from the beginning. You guys are as bad as the U.S. Congress... You can't agree on anything, there's always someone crying for special consideration for his "party" and claiming the other guys getting the better deal, another guy derailing the topic with his unrelated concerns, another over complicating it trying to fix to many things at once, and then you have the endless pissing contests in the middle of a serious "discussion". We need a proper foundation, grounding principles with which to balance off of and without these we get inconsistencies such as the old amarr and gal sentinel slot counts. So many cried over it but it HAD to be done and we balanced around it. This is the same thing! Let's set our foundation and build from there, balancing bonus' if need be. Dust 514, the BEST WORST game you can't stop playing.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 10	Posted - 2015.05.28 21:19:00 - [510] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: hails8n wrote: The only fast assault is the min assault. It was always supposed to border between being a scout and an assault.Just like amarr scouts border between being a scout and an assault. I think the real problem was when alll minmatar suits got an hp buff, the min assault was balanced to me back then at least after the slot layout increase. I'd rather have its hp nerfed over speed, because speed is what min assaults are all about, but when an 800 hp suit is running at you at 9 meters per sec, whats the point of owning a scout then. So id be debating on an hp Nerf. Beat me to it, so...... This ^ Min Assault is the fastest assault but it isn't the only fast assault. Click back a few pages for a 900 HP, 9 m/s GalAssault loadout. If we deleted MInAssaults, these would be the next best high-speed, high-hp units. High speed high hp suicide suits don't really matter when you are talking about survivability. Sure it can run 9m/sec for a bout few seconds, then wait twice as long to run again. If damaged at any point, waiting almost 12 seconds for shields to start coming back at measly 20 HP/sec is laughable. Not to mention that armour repair... Why even add plates if it takes you 3.5 MINUTES to get back? The only good thing about this suit is that if you manage your stamina properly, don't get scanned and manage to get close, your suit has a shotgun bonus. Beyond that though this is a suicide suit. Slayer suits are self sustaining and built around a playstyle the suit itself is made for and that suit is a blatant attempt at showing off certain stats possible while ignoring it's glaring failures. It's easily scanned, even passively, it's got not got nearly enough stamina or stamina recovery to accentuate it's speed (which is why the Minmatar suit works so well) and it has no means of properly healing it's health in a meaningful way. So in short, your example is sorely lacking. You show it's possible to have a decent speed with ok eHp, but you also show at the same time how bad you are at fitting suits. And I don't mean that mockingly, I sincerely mean that it would take intentional effort to make a suit less survivable than this. 9 m/s is decent speed? 900 HP is "ok" HP? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)



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