Yup, this is where I'm at, from what I've seen of Charlie.

I think #4 really is the key, after the previous 3 being addressed, to closing the balance between the frames. Simple movement buffs, to walking and rotation speeds with regen buffs on the limited side for straight hp (maybe 50-70 pts spread shield/armor based on race lore) but very dynamic on the regen delay side, prompting limited tanking with short delay accomodating cover to cover movement and limited (though substantially better than now) sustainability through the sort of massive barrages supported squads attract. Suits that don't currently enjoy inherent reps maybe still get a bonus (perhaps even the fastest of the bonuses) to delay but obviously need to equip the appropriate module to use it.

Additionally, buffs could be tangible through
-lowering our inherent profile base below assault base, sp investments into prec/damp will make detection/stealth possible between them
-redefining the individual equipment values, carried/deployed etc. as others have suggested
-redefining the individual equipment/racial bonuses as others have suggested
-redefining the logis hitbox as others have suggested.
-recoloring the frame, again, as others have suggested (I like plaid)
-fitting/pricing of individual equipment redefining, as others have suggested
Any/all of these or adjustments along these lines would be good I think.

(And then you take away the best part of the existing bonus, to boot. The Minmatar get the fast spawns now? I just threw up in my mouth a little.)

The fastest spawns and the best rep tools? With your proposal you basically finish the job of making every logi suit but the Minmatar completely pointless and obsolete.

You don't want to know what I'm good with, matari.

You don't want to know what I'm good with, matari.

You don't want to know what I'm good with, matari.

You don't want to know what I'm good with, matari.

I'm all for racial equality...








Of gear.


(Otherwise you're on your own; the Empire shall prevail.)

I am not amused.

Take this idiocity elsewhere.

Every logistics is important,regardless of what the other classes say.

Take a step back and look at Dust...carefully...

It's effectively become logistics vs everything else.

We ARE a race.
We shouldn't be fighting our brethren,we need to band together.

Your fellow logistics are going through this hardship with us,we are allies,let's start acting like it shall we?

*heavily slaps bogeyman on the back with a hearty laugh*

"You are not the first and highly unlikely to be the last matari to say that, young one! Have a drink, we will settle it on the battlefield tomorrow..."

*glances down at dingy minmatar fatigues*
*Lifts one eyebrow quizzically*

"That's an ironic statement..."

*straightens cuff of proper gilded uniform*

"No matter. By the way, your kind should always be careful accepting "drinks" from one such as I without testing it first. You may not be so fortunate next time."

*smirks and walks away*

What are you going to do? Rep each other to death?

Please elaborate in detail on points one and two because at present they seem to be in contradiction to each other.

Looking forward to your reply
Cheers,
Cross

Triple SP event. Uplink spam gets ludicrous. You can set your watch to it.

How does it confirm anything?... people farm vehicle damage points too. Should we take that away?

We'd have to see if reduction to the WP rewards on Uplinks is even possible. I have my doubts since we found out recently that the rewards for Injectors could not be changed.

Your missing one important variable in your equation there: Triple SP event. Not a good basis for far-reaching gameplay decisions.

Demonsbane your antagonistic, murderous bad attitude towards boosters Minmatar has been noted and found giggleworthy.

Question: Could you change the Minmatar suit to a sapper and somehow make Proximity mines explode based on Signature Profile instead of just on vehicles (Giving the Minmatar Logi a bonus to proxy mine triggers and explosion Radius of REs). (For something in the future, not necessarily a hotfix)

And others farm vehicle damage WP, or pad their KDR at the same time with a kill-revive boosting scheme (used to see some comical stat lines on the Oceania server... people going 355/0 with 10000 WP).

That's not the only way its done. All sorts of creatively abhorrent behavior crops up.

I'm glad we agree that a murderous attitude towards minmatar is giggle worthy and therefore approved/acceptable.

pâ+(n+Ç+¦-¦)pâÄ
Not this again.

Still not going to do what you think it will...

As for Appia, yeah, you're not going to get very far with her. Now, I do totally agree that vehicle scans should not find damped scouts, and that was a bad idea. Reasons:

1) cuz f*ck vehicles

2) Continuous 360 degree scan on a highly mobile platform.

On the other hand, I also agree that a maxed Gal logi with a duvolle focused scan should be able to see any scout, or at the very least, any scout that's not a cloaked proto gallente with a complex dampener in every slot and maxed skills.

...In which case we should still make a new scanner available, let's call it the duvolle laser focused (lol), with a shorter scan duration and angle that can then pick up any scout no matter what, because it's an active piece of equipment designed specifically for that, not a passive thing that is always on.

This morning when I was picked up twice with a Red standing 20m in front of me in plain sight, I got the idea that there should be a -25 WP penalty if you pick someone up and they die again within 5 seconds.

My role in the context of the Support class: Victim!

I consider the guy who picked me up twice without clearing the area to be an accomplice to my repeated murder. Maybe if there was a penalty for such negligence people would learn?

That was me advocating all logi suits being better with all equipment than all other suits. As such, I'm not going to list a secondary bonus, Cross, because I don't think it's a good idea.

As for individual suits fitting power, the Amarr desperately needs more PG. CPU is fine. Both laz0r weapons and uplinks are PG intensive, the Amarr suit is virtually designed NOT to use it's own racial weaponry and equipment.

For those who aren't going to go looking, the method John is talking about/advocating can be read here please feel free to pipe up if you are more in support of this method than than the lessor version which was proposed in my question above.

Cheers,
Cross

A few things here, first being able to deploy only one is in my view bad form and does not actually address most of the concerns, however there is a strikingly similar idea that I support (more on that at the bottom).

Armor hive tanking, even proto based hex armor hive tanking, can be overcome without casualties by a couple scouts or a heavy lobi pair. I use these examples because I witnessed both during my play time last night. (In the case of the scouts they were even outnumbered by the 'blue' forces on the hives).

I have still not seen any confirmation that deployed gear causes lag. I know many players believe this to be true, and I am not saying I can prove it to be false. But what I am saying is that every test on it I have personally run has shown no direct correlation and I have experienced my worst lag (out side of PC matches) in games where equipment deployment was mild (under 12 pieces total) to non-existent.

Non-tactical uplink placement can happen no matter how many uplinks can be deployed, and does not become less likely with a limit of this nature because so much of the uplink spam is from people who are not actually playing support they are playing slayer with either a 'swap and drop' or the use of a burner suit. This limit would decrease the number of links they could deploy but not the practice, because it in no way effects their direct role (slaying). Meanwhile these 'fire and forget' assets would persist for even longer (if not bound to the logi suit) and would become closer to useless (if bound to the logi suit in the current methodology where buffs cease to function upon the death of the squishy logi).

People who are actually playing support rarely mono stack equipment (more common with hives than uplinks in my experience). I have tried stacked uplink suits to test the viability of using them throughout a match, they run just over 185 to just over 219k ISK and between 374-554 HP (eWar fit, or brick tanked both including the effects of maxed skills). Now someone with a better gun game than mine could get better results no doubt but regardless of that it is hard to run these setups at a profit without heavy combat avoidance (alone the lines of run when you see red dots) and most Logibros run diverse equipment racks not mono tactics.

I agree limiting spam is useful, though most often the culprits aren't actually playing logi (either being in a support fit nor focused on a support role) during most of the match, which I think is worth noting.

Agreed that logi frames need some hugs to be viable in the current game state and that pushing that forward at the same time as an equipment revision is a sound path to take.

Having said all of that here's the current alteration to the deployed equipment mechanic that I support.


This set up maintains current max potential while requiring active play by assigning smaller 'portions' to each deployed hive/link as they would require consistent reapplication to remain functional making support play less 'fire and forget'. This would also result in fewer wasted spawns and clusters for those who already actively play support as they would abandon less of their total payload when their squad moves/lose less when their gear is fluxed/destroyed.

The other asset of this proposal is that I am reasonably confident it can be implemented server side solely by altering current item stats and thus is a low dev time solution.

0.02 ISK
Cross

ps ~ I also currently support the notion of support equipment by and large having higher fittings cost and lower ISK cost than present along with an improvement to the logi role buff further pushing sets of proto equipment into the purview of the support specialist role.

That brings up a very good point, and one which I must sheepishly admit I overlooked in the spreadsheet, that being the cost comparison between pieces of equipment.

Heretofore I have not touched the comparative costs of equipment but would like to open the floor for that now.

I wish to invite everyone to comment on the relative cost and balance within the equipment line, which mods cost too much PG or CPU, which cost too little, where are the perceived gaps between value and function?

This is good information to include, mercs I'd like your input.

Cheers,
Cross