DUST Search - CPM input request: Logistics & Support.

Breakin Stuff wrote:

Hate to say this, but HAV guns need a bit more juice.

I'm against the removal of the rail splash because tanks DO need an anti-infantry method not dependent upon secondary turrets. The idea that HAVs should not be effective killing infantry IS asinine in my opinion. I know many disagree but bluntly the tank owner needs a better shot at defending against people like me. They need to be able to put supporting fire on an objective to suppress and kill infantry in a push.

I think we have achieved overnerfing the offensive capacities of HAVs at this point. I would like to be challenged by them when I kill them.

HAVs ARE support vehicles. They cannot support if they are impotent against infantry and only of use against LAVs and HAVs. yes people get mad when tanks start gunning them down. This is why AV weapons were created.

The idea that an HAV owner should be wholly dependent upon SOMEONE ELSE to protect them was a bad decision IMHO. Should they be vulnerabe to infantry AV? they always were once the 1.7 insanity went away.

As an AV gunner I have no sympathy to most infantry who will not swap fits to a tank cracker fit and then ***** that the tanks kill them too easy.

Unless a tank is bricktanked, I have no real difficulty killing them. There should be a 50/50 chance of a tank busting my chops when run by a driver who is as good at driving as I am at AV. The survival rate just dropped sharply.

I am an AV gunner, I have zero points dropped into HAVs.

HAVs should not have their infantry killing capabilities taken away when Infantry still have access to AV weapons. expecting tanks to go play private party World of Tanks while infantry farm them is just as bad as tanks farming infantry with impunity.

thank you.


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zzZaXxx D3ATH CARD 425	Posted - 2014.08.22 03:45:00 - [1] - Quote It's great to see the CPM working on this. It is high time for some logi love! My primary support role is remote repping. Feedback on logistics support roles: My first thought is that logis need an EHP buff. Logis are targets on the field, especially when we're remote repping. Logis' survivability is out of whack with the other suits because they've all been iterated on while the logi has remained the same. This is just a crystal clear need to me and I hope to the CPM as well. Roles: Remote repping: I think this is working well. It is very effective, but not OP, especially now with the advent of the World Eating Burst HMG. A proto vehicle repper would add something to the game I think. And speaking of repping, the main thing repping logis need besides more EHP is more variety of roles/behaviors for heavies, which means adding the remaining two heavy weapons. Active Scanning: it seems to me the whole team should be able to see enemies lit up by active scans. There are only 16 of us on one team for crying out loud! One player should be able to help out the whole team in his role. Limiting visibility to squads also severely limits Gallente logistics usefulness in battles when soloing or in an in incomplete squad. And that's all the specialized roles there are for logis: remote repping and scanning. Throwing down hives and links is the role of every logi of any race. Just having faster spawning links or faster hives with more nanites does not a specialized role make. That means Caldari and Amarr logis have no real specialized support role. For them both to have one would require new active equipment, such as shield transporters, and I know we're not going there. So the only hope for them is for devs to emphasize their hybrid role. Slot-wise I think they're already there. They both only have 3 equipment slots at proto, and Amarr has the sidearm, Caldari the extra high slot. What they both need is a combat related bonus. I think a light weapon reload speed bonus would be ideal for the Cal logi. For the Amarr logi I'm thinking some passive rep and a bonus to biotics efficacy would work great, along with switching one of his high slots to a low slot. As for the rest of the equipment: Remotes: game breaking. Need to be changed so you have to sKet them and wait Uplinks: protos need more HP Nanohives: protos need more HP. I heard the ones that rep and give ammo break when heavies use them. They get sucked up too fast giving them ammo? Not sure. Nanite Injectors: just needs better "hit" detection and please find a way to get rid of the indicators that send me on a deadly wild goose chase to an empty spot with a needle icon on it. Thanks for again for focusing on this!
zzZaXxx D3ATH CARD 425	Posted - 2014.08.22 12:34:00 - [2] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: zzZaXxx wrote: Remotes: game breaking. Need to be changed so you have to sKet them and wait Uplinks: protos need more HP Nanohives: protos need more HP. I heard the ones that rep and give ammo break when heavies use them. They get sucked up too fast giving them ammo? Not sure. Nanite Injectors: just needs better "hit" detection and please find a way to get rid of the indicators that send me on a deadly wild goose chase to an empty spot with a needle icon on it. Thanks for again for focusing on this! Unattended equipment should be easy to destroy. they do not "require more HP." Nor does it need to be easier for people to stand inside triage hives and have them weather a mass driver barrage intended to remove them from play. Right now MD and grenades take out proto equipment too fast. I know because I'm on the giving end. Just need a little more resilience. Shouldn't just go poof. Actually that would be a great nanohive variant: a repping hive that reps half the HP but has a lot of shields and is hard to take out with MD.
zzZaXxx D3ATH CARD 425	Posted - 2014.08.22 12:54:00 - [3] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Equipment doesn't need more HP Proto equipment just needs a lower profile. Let's reward PLACEMENT rather than spamming in open areas. By hiding your uplink well, it won't show up on scans or passives as long as you're using the best of the best...that's what I want. Low profile equipment. Another good variant they could add!
zzZaXxx D3ATH CARD 426	Posted - 2014.08.22 13:36:00 - [4] - Quote Y'all talk like equipment is hard to take down. As far as I can tell I'm one shotting everything with my assault MD. I should have to work harder. Repping hives aren't actually used that much. They need to be made more viable for point defense. Well I guess there needs to be an advanced option for a pure repping hive.
zzZaXxx D3ATH CARD 428	Posted - 2014.08.22 16:26:00 - [5] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: No, there needs to be more reptools, less rep hives. Rep hives devalue logistics players and make repair spam trivial. Rep hives can't compete with a min logi with a proto rep tool. They're stationary and can be popped with MD easily.
zzZaXxx D3ATH CARD 428	Posted - 2014.08.22 17:05:00 - [6] - Quote Survivability needs to be addressed one way or another. A smaller hit box and more speed would work. More EHP would work too. I also strongly feel that logis' precision should be lowered to 40. This would enable logis to get their precision under 24 by fitting two complex PEs. Under 24 is low enough to detect non-dampened cal/gal scouts with proto cloak. Scouts could still get under this passive scan with one complex dampener. This way logis could sacrifice tank to have a chance at detecting incoming scouts--a valuable support role--and scouts would face more pressure to commit to dampening.
zzZaXxx D3ATH CARD 431	Posted - 2014.08.23 18:30:00 - [7] - Quote I almost forgot one of the most important things that needs addressing: Advanced Gallente and Caldari logis only have 5 module slots. That's now less than their assault counterpart. So they have less slots, much less HP, they're slower, have less stamina, and have no sidearm. 2 more equipment and equipment bonus is not enough to make up the difference. These logis need an extra slot--Gallente low, Caldari high of course--on top of increased EHP.
zzZaXxx D3ATH CARD 436	Posted - 2014.08.27 00:33:00 - [8] - Quote Now that installations are so important (for example on Ambush OMS bridge map) a proto Axis repair tool would fill a void and add a dynamic element to the game. This would have mediocre effect on infantry but would be excellent on vehicles and installations. It would enable teams to keep supply depots and key turrets alive when rail/missile turrets and forges are focused on them. Depending on how valuable the installation is, more reps could be put on it.
zzZaXxx Vengeance Unbound 520	Posted - 2014.09.20 03:09:00 - [9] - Quote 1. Logis need more EHP. 2. Logis need scouts to lose the 2nd equipment slot. 3. Adv Cal and Gal logis need a 6th slot. 4. Logis need more EHP.
zzZaXxx Vengeance Unbound 575	Posted - 2014.09.24 11:07:00 - [10] - Quote I think all logis having equal bonuses to equipment is a great idea. It would solve the current UPness of logis and deal with a number of other problems as well. Spreading Gal logi bonus to all logis would enable all logis to detect scouts with proto scans, which would go a long way towards balancing scouts. Scouts would still be able to get under scans but they would have to fit 1-2 dampeners as status quo. This would be rough on Amarr and Minmatar scouts, granted, but you shouldn't have to be a Gal logi to detect undampened Cal and Gal scouts with active scanner. Any logi with a proto scanner should be able to provide this service. It would make logis more useful and scouts less OP. If all logis had the same repair tool bonus it would enable every logi to be able to perform this role effectively. It is really a fundamental support role for the whole class, and spreading it out among all logis would help to create an environment where more logis are actively engaged in support, which would give squads more options and encourage more teamwork. And it would give people who want to be an effective logi more choices, instead of forcing them to go Min logi if they want to be able to support better. Of course the Min logi bonus would have to be nerfed. As for uplinks and hives, they could simply be buffed a bit and the current bonuses to them nerfed. Then racial logi bonuses could focus on survivability. Maybe shield and armor hp for Cal/Amarr, and shield and armor recovery for Min/Gal.

zzZaXxx Vengeance Unbound 575	Posted - 2014.09.24 18:08:00 - [11] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Hate to say this, but HAV guns need a bit more juice. I'm against the removal of the rail splash because tanks DO need an anti-infantry method not dependent upon secondary turrets. The idea that HAVs should not be effective killing infantry IS asinine in my opinion. I know many disagree but bluntly the tank owner needs a better shot at defending against people like me. They need to be able to put supporting fire on an objective to suppress and kill infantry in a push. I think we have achieved overnerfing the offensive capacities of HAVs at this point. I would like to be challenged by them when I kill them. HAVs ARE support vehicles. They cannot support if they are impotent against infantry and only of use against LAVs and HAVs. yes people get mad when tanks start gunning them down. This is why AV weapons were created. The idea that an HAV owner should be wholly dependent upon SOMEONE ELSE to protect them was a bad decision IMHO. Should they be vulnerabe to infantry AV? they always were once the 1.7 insanity went away. As an AV gunner I have no sympathy to most infantry who will not swap fits to a tank cracker fit and then ***** that the tanks kill them too easy. Unless a tank is bricktanked, I have no real difficulty killing them. There should be a 50/50 chance of a tank busting my chops when run by a driver who is as good at driving as I am at AV. The survival rate just dropped sharply. I am an AV gunner, I have zero points dropped into HAVs. HAVs should not have their infantry killing capabilities taken away when Infantry still have access to AV weapons. expecting tanks to go play private party World of Tanks while infantry farm them is just as bad as tanks farming infantry with impunity. thank you. I'm sure this would be a great read if it were in the appropriate thread. Just because you think HAVs "support" the team doesn't mean they can be considered directly related to logistics and support. By that logic anything could be considered support. Please move your comments to another thread.