DUST Search - CPM input request: Logistics & Support.

Mister Goo wrote:

Orion Sanjeet wrote:

Mister Goo wrote:

Advance M/1 logi Suit with six kin rep tool =69,285
Advance M/1 Logi Suit with BDR8 rep tool =58365 (trying to cut cost with adv repair tool)

Advance M/1 Assaut Suit complex dmg mod =30,945
Advance A/1 Heavy Suit complex dmg mod =37,770

This is a problem!!!

Repair Tools
I have read some of the proposals for rep tool healing the logi's as a way to make up for less ehp. I agree but it needs to be regulated to only when the repair tool is out and actively being used on other team mates. Not when your solo or the target is at full health. It also does not need to be the full amount of the repair tool maybe 50%.

Amount of armor repaired needs to be put back to original amounts before the nerf. That way every logi can out heal a frontline suit with militia weapon and damage mod.

One last thought about all classes of suits. A militia or basic suit should not be able to use a proto level anything.

You dumbass, you cut costs on the weapon, NOT on the repair tool.

And second the repair tool shouldn't repair the repper as it will encourage ONLY armor tanking, active repping though should at least give a somewhat blanket resistance to damage for armor and shields, otherwise cal logis get boned and will discourage diverse fits.

Name calling is NOT required.

I know that you use a lower tier weapon to cut cost, I use my exile on most of my fits. When I want to save isk.
I was showing all Advance tier items for comparison to the all advance tier Assault and Heavy Suits with 1 complex damage mod.

I will agree that a Cal logi will be at a large disadvantage. I agree that rep tools would encourage armor tanking, so I am willing to go with a blanket resistance to damage. I used the armor repair because the main function of the repair tool is to repair armor and all suits have armor even cal logi's not much but some.


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Orion Sanjeet Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 151	Posted - 2014.08.13 04:48:00 - [1] - Quote Only just finished reading page one, however things that need fixed at the moment. 1. A slight increase in the hit detection of the repair tool. 2. Nanite injectors should be whoever gets the needle in the person first. (These weekend logis are killin' me with their usage of O, they are getting more people killed with their late use of the injector than not.) 3. Logis need to be effective in all equipment and excellent with their specialized equipment. I.E. Better than every other role in the use of ALL equipment. 4. Core Focused Repair Tool needs to be brought back up to 175/sec base. If CCP goes though the stats I am sure it's use will be almost non-existent. It is already a very high risk tool due to it's range, at least make it high reward because at the moment it is only sitting at barely above the Six Kin Triage and definitely not enough to risk staying that close to the action. That is all I can think of for right now. Nothing I say is meant to offend... unless you're stupid. - Mr. Welch
Orion Sanjeet Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 151	Posted - 2014.08.13 04:55:00 - [2] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: 1) It may create some hate eye pointed at me but we should make RE's an option to carry in the Grenade slot instead of an equipment slot. Hear me out...you skill into it via the weapon tree and it uses the same access skills as the grenade. Why is it considered an equipment slot? There is also something about making you choose between your Core Locus, Wyrikomi AV grenade, or standard variant RE (that is more lethal then either of those two previously noted offerings!) And how would you propose one uses the grenade slot to activate remotes? Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Swarm Launchers 1) Velocity of swarm missiles needs to noticeably increase...Drop ships outrunning swarms borders on the ridiculous. I'm pretty deep into SP investment for SLs and honestly the damage they deliver now is adequate but delivering the damage to a drop ship in particular is very sketchy. 2) Lock range of SLs need a very mild increase. Recommendation would be to increase the lock range to 200m...the additional 25m's of range would be very well received and open up engagement opportunities noticeably. Anything less than 300m is just ineffectual. Lock-on range and travel-speed are nearly a singular issue Bah! I nearly forgot about my Logistics ak.0. I was wondering why a Logi would carry swarms. How about increasing lock on range to 200 and a swarm missile range dead stop to 250 with an 25-50% increased missile velocity. Swarms would be deadly within their bubble but dropships wouldn't have to sprint across the map just to outrun them. Nothing I say is meant to offend... unless you're stupid. - Mr. Welch
Orion Sanjeet Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 152	Posted - 2014.08.13 05:15:00 - [3] - Quote Zaria Min Deir wrote: giving Minlogi a bonus to REs/Proxies... this would actually make sense, much more than the reptool, as the REs are actually Minmatar tech in spirit too, unlike the reptool. can you imagine the QQ? But, oh, it would be glorious. I hate you. But seriously. NO. Nothing I say is meant to offend... unless you're stupid. - Mr. Welch
Orion Sanjeet Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 153	Posted - 2014.08.13 06:50:00 - [4] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Booby Tuesdays wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: i disagree with your injector rant.. in charlie(or was it delta) they are getting changed.. pro get more WP as standard/mil get less.. OH and lets not forget Pro also Rep80%+ of the persons armor This has been delayed due to an unexpected tech barrier. This is the saddest thing I have read in a while. That's what I get for getting my hopes up... Hope is the first step on the Road to Disappointment Hope was trapped in Pandora's Box will all of the rest of mankind's maladies for a reason. Because it is one of them. I do apologize for the excessive posting. This being a topic very need and dear to me continuing to play this game I figured I would comment as I read through this. However I have read it through and commented on what I thought important for me to comment on. However that is it for me tonight. Nothing I say is meant to offend... unless you're stupid. - Mr. Welch
Orion Sanjeet Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 154	Posted - 2014.08.13 23:23:00 - [5] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Orion Sanjeet wrote: However at the moment the difference between a rep logi and a great rep logi is being in squad and saying "By the Power of GraySkull! [insert name] has the POWER!!!". FTFY Legit lol, and you better believe I'll be ******* using that. Nothing I say is meant to offend... unless you're stupid. - Mr. Welch
Orion Sanjeet Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 156	Posted - 2014.08.14 01:55:00 - [6] - Quote Just tossing out there but... On logistics suits equipment regens 1/2 minutes. Nothing I say is meant to offend... unless you're stupid. - Mr. Welch
Orion Sanjeet Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 161	Posted - 2014.08.18 15:03:00 - [7] - Quote Mister Goo wrote: Advance M/1 logi Suit with six kin rep tool =69,285 Advance M/1 Logi Suit with BDR8 rep tool =58365 (trying to cut cost with adv repair tool) Advance M/1 Assaut Suit complex dmg mod =30,945 Advance A/1 Heavy Suit complex dmg mod =37,770 This is a problem!!! Repair Tools I have read some of the proposals for rep tool healing the logi's as a way to make up for less ehp. I agree but it needs to be regulated to only when the repair tool is out and actively being used on other team mates. Not when your solo or the target is at full health. It also does not need to be the full amount of the repair tool maybe 50%. Amount of armor repaired needs to be put back to original amounts before the nerf. That way every logi can out heal a frontline suit with militia weapon and damage mod. One last thought about all classes of suits. A militia or basic suit should not be able to use a proto level anything. You dumbass, you cut costs on the weapon, NOT on the repair tool. And second the repair tool shouldn't repair the repper as it will encourage ONLY armor tanking, active repping though should at least give a somewhat blanket resistance to damage for armor and shields, otherwise cal logis get boned and will discourage diverse fits. Nothing I say is meant to offend... unless you're stupid. - Mr. Welch
Orion Sanjeet Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 161	Posted - 2014.08.18 16:13:00 - [8] - Quote Mister Goo wrote: Orion Sanjeet wrote: Mister Goo wrote: Advance M/1 logi Suit with six kin rep tool =69,285 Advance M/1 Logi Suit with BDR8 rep tool =58365 (trying to cut cost with adv repair tool) Advance M/1 Assaut Suit complex dmg mod =30,945 Advance A/1 Heavy Suit complex dmg mod =37,770 This is a problem!!! Repair Tools I have read some of the proposals for rep tool healing the logi's as a way to make up for less ehp. I agree but it needs to be regulated to only when the repair tool is out and actively being used on other team mates. Not when your solo or the target is at full health. It also does not need to be the full amount of the repair tool maybe 50%. Amount of armor repaired needs to be put back to original amounts before the nerf. That way every logi can out heal a frontline suit with militia weapon and damage mod. One last thought about all classes of suits. A militia or basic suit should not be able to use a proto level anything. You dumbass, you cut costs on the weapon, NOT on the repair tool. And second the repair tool shouldn't repair the repper as it will encourage ONLY armor tanking, active repping though should at least give a somewhat blanket resistance to damage for armor and shields, otherwise cal logis get boned and will discourage diverse fits. Name calling is NOT required. I know that you use a lower tier weapon to cut cost, I use my exile on most of my fits. When I want to save isk. I was showing all Advance tier items for comparison to the all advance tier Assault and Heavy Suits with 1 complex damage mod. I will agree that a Cal logi will be at a large disadvantage. I agree that rep tools would encourage armor tanking, so I am willing to go with a blanket resistance to damage. I used the armor repair because the main function of the repair tool is to repair armor and all suits have armor even cal logi's not much but some. Nothing I say is meant to offend... unless you're stupid. - Mr. Welch
Orion Sanjeet Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 161	Posted - 2014.08.18 17:59:00 - [9] - Quote Mister Goo wrote: +1 Pokey Very good analyses of the current situation and side arm logis are not the answer. Not unless ya make Mass Drivers sidearms. But I'd guess pagl1u M is a scout and doesn't like logis being able to fight back with the only weapon truly effective against them. Nothing I say is meant to offend... unless you're stupid. - Mr. Welch
Orion Sanjeet Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 163	Posted - 2014.08.18 18:19:00 - [10] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Orion Sanjeet wrote: Mister Goo wrote: +1 Pokey Very good analyses of the current situation and side arm logis are not the answer. Not unless ya make Mass Drivers sidearms. But I'd guess pagl1u M is a scout and doesn't like logis being able to fight back with the only weapon truly effective against them. We have a Mass Driver Sidearm, it's called the flaylock I said something EFFECTIVE against scouts. Nothing I say is meant to offend... unless you're stupid. - Mr. Welch

Orion Sanjeet Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 164	Posted - 2014.08.18 20:06:00 - [11] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Orion Sanjeet wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Orion Sanjeet wrote: Mister Goo wrote: +1 Pokey Very good analyses of the current situation and side arm logis are not the answer. Not unless ya make Mass Drivers sidearms. But I'd guess pagl1u M is a scout and doesn't like logis being able to fight back with the only weapon truly effective against them. We have a Mass Driver Sidearm, it's called the flaylock I said something EFFECTIVE against scouts. Haha I know I was just giving you ****. Blast, my failure to detect sarcasm has foiled me again. Nothing I say is meant to offend... unless you're stupid. - Mr. Welch
Orion Sanjeet Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 164	Posted - 2014.08.18 21:32:00 - [12] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Orion Sanjeet wrote: Blast, my failure to detect sarcasm has foiled me again. No worries mate, online text forums are not exactly good at expressing inflections in voice. Because English is a terrible language Yep, because I before E except after C because yeah, english is a science. Nothing I say is meant to offend... unless you're stupid. - Mr. Welch
Orion Sanjeet Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 165	Posted - 2014.08.21 01:31:00 - [13] - Quote I've again, just tossing out our there but, now that orbitals are now 5k, would it be possible to soften the wp cap on logis maybe? Nothing I say is meant to offend... unless you're stupid. - Mr. Welch
Orion Sanjeet Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 166	Posted - 2014.08.25 14:45:00 - [14] - Quote Yup, because I don't like scouts acting like logis, so please, turn my logi into a scout. Brilliant. Nothing I say is meant to offend... unless you're stupid. - Mr. Welch
Orion Sanjeet Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 166	Posted - 2014.08.25 16:53:00 - [15] - Quote Hawkings Greenback wrote: Ok so there have been a few ideas thrown about on how to make logi's better from More HP to resistances. So I had an idea that may work but I'm not sure whether it's possible to do within the Hotfix only phase we are running. Anyway, to aid survivability how about when a logi is acitively repping a target he gets a "feedback" armour rep. Nothing stupidly OP, maybe 1 or 2 HP/s max AND only when the rep tool is active on a target. It's not enough to save a logi from alpha damage or prolonged/sustained fire but a little extra to encourage a logi to use the rep tool. Of course it may be a crap idea but trying to think of something other than HP buff etc Also I'm not sure if this has been suggested before and sorry if I have stolen someone else's idea Idea is now open to feedback, pull it to bits, discuss or whatever. I like this to an extent, but as I said before, it will kill diversity of logi suits so only armor tanked suits would see any benefit. So keep the idea of recieving a bonus while actively repping, just make the bonus a small damage resistance to all forms of damage for shields and armor. However I think either of our versions would be difficult with only server side. Nothing I say is meant to offend... unless you're stupid. - Mr. Welch
Orion Sanjeet Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 166	Posted - 2014.08.25 19:17:00 - [16] - Quote Ok, we now have four groups. 1) Make logis scouts. (We already have scouts in this game thank you.) 2) Make logis heavies. (Again, we have those, but I like it better since it fits my playstyle since I live 20-30 meters behind the front lines or depending on the situation, on the frontlines) 3) Change the equipment and/or the bonuses (getting closer, since now we are focusing on what should make a logi unique on the battle field) 4) Keep the logis in their place and nerf them further. Slayer logi, never again. (Unless Rattati and the CPMs that still play the game have all recently drunk the lead filled kool aid then slayer logis will never happen again, so stop bitching about it.) Everything parentheses is obviously opinion. Keep tossing out ideas but make sure logis wind up unique and not just(insert class) light. Nothing I say is meant to offend... unless you're stupid. - Mr. Welch
Orion Sanjeet Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 166	Posted - 2014.08.25 23:39:00 - [17] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Where is #1 being generated from? My suggestions? Because we have plenty of leeway to adjust our movement/regen base without cramping onto scouts, just like their having 1 equipment doesnt cramp logi'ing but having 2 does. Where I am getting #1 is reductio ad absurdum of your comments yeah, however I could be down for logis being a bit better at e-war and have some more speed, but for the most part the suit itself is fine (cal could use a slight shield buff maybe), though it's the equipment and bonuses that will set logis apart, otherwise we are only homogenizing the classes. Nothing I say is meant to offend... unless you're stupid. - Mr. Welch
Orion Sanjeet Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 168	Posted - 2014.08.31 08:00:00 - [18] - Quote As far as preventing equipment spam, just have a maximum total hives dropped per person and maximum total links dropped per person. E.G. Scouts and Amarr logis are able to drop a total of 5 links (3 viziam + 2 viziam flux = a total of 5), while every other suit can only have a total of 3 active, other logis being allowed 4. A similar system being in place for hives with Caldari being able to keep the most hives active, then the other logis next highest, then the rest of the suits being able to have a total of two active(these numbers are just the first that popped into my head). While logis would still be the equipment "spamming" suits, but overall spamming would be severely throttled. Also, if you switch away from the logi suit you "total" would change down to what ever suit you changed to and would "delete" all but the latest equipment you dropped. E.G. if you went from a suit with a link cap of 6 to a suit with a cap of two, all but the last two would "pop". I mentioned scouts to have a bonus to link cap because it sounds like something that scouts should have. Nothing I say is meant to offend... unless you're stupid. - Mr. Welch
Orion Sanjeet Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 178	Posted - 2014.09.03 17:37:00 - [19] - Quote Ideas from various threads I just started. Regarding WP for slayers: Required in my opinion. Perhaps instead of just kills and kill assists, add perhaps similar to damage to vehicles. Get points for damage. Heavies do a lot of damage but don't always close the deal due to it being a very unique support role, i.e. you're a distraction, and or point defense, the people that flank are more likely to close the deal because after you damn near destroy someone they take cover almost dead and are promptly shot by your flanking units, heavies DO get screwed and points for damage dealt would help rectify that. Regarding scanners: Treat scanners similarly to repair tools, receive wp for time elapsed that enemy/enemies are scanned, and continue to receive intel kill assists. Alternate possibility, more wp received for smaller profile scanned over time. Thus encouraging higher quality scanners and more focused scanners. This will also help with the scout problem that lingers.(I hate scout if you didn't know and should so you can accurately judge my ideas) Scouts becoming valuable WPs for people that scan would encourage duvolle focused scanners to be used more often, requiring scouts to make their suits a bit more flimsy to get under scans. Regarding Softening the triage cap: True and the points for hives and scans should be vastly buffed, hell even the injector of they correct it still counting as a death even if you are picked up. However points do need to change to more reflect your contribution, if I repair 20,000 armor and 2000 of that was an 800 armor heavy and the rest was 500-600 armor mediums, then my score should reflect the saving of 38 suits(and don't forget that since we don't rep shields, so we are only working with half a suits ehp so you could essentially increase lives saved to damn near 50), that isn't including revives, links, kills, and all around support. Excluding farmers(that almost never happened with me because it's boring) people underestimate the contribution of what repping that much means. Reducing WP/sec and removing the cap would also be acceptable. Nothing I say is meant to offend... unless you're stupid. - Mr. Welch
Orion Sanjeet Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 188	Posted - 2014.09.09 22:36:00 - [20] - Quote Meee One wrote: i have mentioned this idea before but... Is it possible to have a non-combat variety of logistics? Drawbacks: -no weapon -no grenade -no res or proxies -no melee But its draws would be: -sent eHP -scout regen -scout stamina -scout speed -scout stamina regen Purely defense oriented,this suit would offer the greatest defense at the cost of all offense. Logistics bonuses would apply of course,and it would have 25% blast resistance built in. This pure logistics suit would enable the rep tool to be equipped instead of a light weapon,freeing up an equipment slot. Cpu and pg would of course be bountiful,to allow any fitting the user desires. I've mentioned this to the people I play with a few times, hell yes. Nothing I say is meant to offend... unless you're stupid. - Mr. Welch

Orion Sanjeet Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 217	Posted - 2014.11.14 16:32:00 - [21] - Quote Y'all better stop trying to turn this into a "how shall we best nerf the logi" thread, otherwise, it just might happen. Ebola makes me feel all warm and squishy inside.
Orion Sanjeet Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 217	Posted - 2014.11.16 09:18:00 - [22] - Quote I just had a thought, and please, explain to me why I am wrong. A lot of the backlash against, to me, what would seem like reasonable changes is the fact that, in spite of being a suit used primarily by masochists almost always puts the wielder at the top of the leaderboards due to it's inherent WP payouts. To those that haven't been in the trenches as a logi allow me to explain it this way, I now have an irrational hatred of scouts, but that doesn't to justice to the loathing I have for them and any opinion of mine in a scout topic should be promptly ignored, because I won't be happy until it only takes 1 basic MD round (splash) to kill any scout... I am getting very far off topic, back to the matter at hand. Now many of the suggestions that could be used to improve the logis efficacy and experience are being demolished because of one thing. Other people like being able to achieve 1st place on the leaderboards, because first and foremost, this is a game, a thing that people play to be able to feel good about themselves if they can't get jack diddly done in real life, or as just an escape to have some fun with some friends. Do you know what sours that whole experience? Seeing your name below some jackhole that went 0/7 with a metric **** load of WP. Everybody is being rated on a system(leaderboad) that is inherently favorable to logis, and are being paid according to their ranking in that system. So we need to change the end of game experience so that there are multiple leaderboards (E.G. WP, Kills, Vehicle Kills, Armor Repaired, Objectives Hacked, etc etc) that can be flipped through or are selected for you based on what was your favorite suit and most used weapon. That way people with fragile egos can flip to the leaderboard that they are closest to the top on because due to how many different classes there are in the FPS you can't rely on a simple who earned the most points leaderboard when some points are earned easier than others. Today's youth somewhat rely on getting a trophy to maintain their interest and all that this game offers to new players is a swift, and HARD kick in the nuts repeatedly... but once again I am getting off track. So basically, once the leaderboards are able to be closer to individualized allowing everyone able to see the importance of what they did on the battlefield, so they aren't trying to tear down ideas that would be beneficial for logis because they would make logis a permanence at the top of the leaderboards and forever getting paid more. TL;DR version We need to change the end of match leaderboads and actual leaderboards so shallow s.o.b.s can stop tearing down ideas that are good for logis. P.S. Payouts would also have to be looked at, and can we please change how we earn orbitals? P.P.S. Changing the leaderboards like this would also improve new player retention because giving praise to a gamer is like giving crack to an addict. After rereading this I realize that it really doesn't belong in this topic. Ebola makes me feel all warm and squishy inside.
Orion Sanjeet Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 223	Posted - 2014.11.18 17:22:00 - [23] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: All of you should check this out. It has a direct impact on the future of support and logistics play, please go read, comment, then come back here for further discussion as well regarding the implications. Cheers, Cross HOLY CRAP, MY IDEA GOT USED!!! Ebola makes me feel all warm and squishy inside.
Orion Sanjeet Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 286	Posted - 2015.03.28 17:03:00 - [24] - Quote Lol, 83 pages and not a blue tag to be found, ladies and gentlemen, I declare this thread a success. Ebola makes me feel all warm and squishy inside.