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CPM input request: Logistics & Support.

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I-Shayz-I I----------I 4542	Posted - 2014.08.12 12:02:00 - [1] - Quote First of all, some links that I will be refering to: Changing WP values of support actions: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=168287 WP potential for different roles is unbalanced: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1550428#post1550428 Support WP/D ratio possible? https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=171243&find=unread Hey Cross! Here's a nice summary for you (btw I have subscribed to this thread to stay updated): Quick important things that need to be adressed: Increasing logistics "sight"/range from 40 meters to at least 100 meters...downed player icons and visible health bars when a repair tool is equipped are currently limited to 40 meters Fixing the sprint glitch. Adjusting wp sources to reward more difficult to earn tasks, while decreasing the reward for simple tanks (increasing scan assists and transport assist, decreasing triage, etc) Adjusting wp sources to actually make sense (75 wp for damaging LAV, only 40 for destruction? Hack 100 wp, hack assist 50...counter hack 80 wp, counter hack assist 65?) Making Proximity Explosives useful, rather than "triggers" for RE's Fixing the less useful variants (flux nanohive, proximity scanner, vehicle repair tool, etc) Cool ideas that would be nice to see implemented down the road: Racial Logistics to get "themed" bonuses (Caldari get bonuses to longer range, Amarr have higher quantity/supply, Gallente offer the best armor repair, Minmatar are all about speed) Introducing new WP bonuses for other support actions or skilled gameplay (backstabbing for scouts, bonus points for defending the objectives on skirmish, points for absorbing damage for sentinels, etc) A complete rework of squad orders (increasing effect of attack order, decreasing defend order, etc) In-game player stats such as Support wp/d at end of match screen if possible Icons that pop up when a player needs health/ammo similar to Resistance 2 Co-op Hope this helps :D Also, here's the discussion we had on Logistics stuff if you ever want to re-listen to your own thoughts/ideas: Part 1: http://youtu.be/V-zjzy3--Eg Part 2: http://youtu.be/fLO85L2s5YA Part 3: http://youtu.be/OahOkoznxMs If you'd like me to elaborate further on any of these subjects I'd be glad to. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4622	Posted - 2014.08.21 00:01:00 - [2] - Quote Btw I'd like to see some more posts in this thread about the support experience rather than just how to change the logistics suit to be better. I feel like I'm one of very few people who actually would like to better the experience of the support player rather than arguing about suit stats. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4626	Posted - 2014.08.21 01:24:00 - [3] - Quote Major IMPACT wrote: To add, I really would really like to see an ADV triage repair tool that can repair 2 targets at once (40/70) . I would also like to have the Proto Tier triage to repair 3 targets at once. I'd rather see a tri-beam repair tool as an officer variant or the LP item. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4629	Posted - 2014.08.21 03:13:00 - [4] - Quote Orion Sanjeet wrote: I've again, just tossing out our there but, now that orbitals are now 5k, would it be possible to soften the wp cap on logis maybe? My idea was to increase wp amounts of various things like ammo resupply, intel assist, and transport assist, while decreasing triage. The thing is, while yes triage would be less, the cap would still be the same, meaning that the potential able to be earned would still be there, you'd just get more bonuses to feel like you're actually doing something. This would essentially "raise the cap" or at least the average duration before hitting the cap...while still keeping things balanced. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4659	Posted - 2014.08.22 12:50:00 - [5] - Quote Equipment doesn't need more HP Proto equipment just needs a lower profile. Let's reward PLACEMENT rather than spamming in open areas. By hiding your uplink well, it won't show up on scans or passives as long as you're using the best of the best...that's what I want. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4685	Posted - 2014.08.26 06:17:00 - [6] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: Seems to me that each race could have one of the two bonuses shared between all logistics suits, and the other one kept specific to that race (e.g. Minmatar logistics would keep the +5% repair amount but all logi suits would get +10%/level to repair range). Thoughts? I'd still rather have racially themed bonuses for equipment. Caldari: Bonuses to range or area effect Minmatar: Bonuses to speed and recharge Amarr: Bonuses to duration and amount carried etc I don't know if we can give a bonus to EVERY equipment, but I would like to see at least 3 bonuses per dropsuit. For instance, Caldari would get longer range for repair tool, longer range for scanner, and bigger nanohive radius. Don't know about the other races, but effectively something along the lines of this. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4685	Posted - 2014.08.26 12:21:00 - [7] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: I'd still rather have racially themed bonuses for equipment. I like that, conceptually, a lot. Oh, wait.. not hotfixable slams forehead into table. (And then you take away the best part of the existing bonus, to boot. The Minmatar get the fast spawns now? I just threw up in my mouth a little.) Wait, how is it not hotfixable? I thought we just changed around the scout bonuses...how is this not any different? Minmatar could get faster resupply/repair rate for nanohives instead of the gallente, but I have no idea what to give the gallente for the third bonus. But where do you put the uplink bonus? Reduced spawn time doesn't fit with Amarr at all, and the gallente might be okay with it, but it doesn't make much sense for this "racial theme". The bonus could also be reduced because it's with the minmatar, while the bonus to uplink spawn count could be increased for the Amarr. I'd rather have these sort of bonuses applied to the skills, or a separate skill (like proficiency), but THAT is the kind of thing that would be better for Legion and isn't at all possible for a hotfix. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4694	Posted - 2014.08.27 04:21:00 - [8] - Quote Again, Those bonuses were just IDEAS, I never said that they were balanced by any means or that that's how it should be set up. I just think it would be cool to have each logi focused on one type of playstyle rather than every logi getting similar bonuses. Giving every suit a bonus to repair tools would be like giving every assault a reduction in heat buildup for the scrambler rifle, or every sentinel suit a reduction to projectile damage. Just because it's the most desired/useful bonus doesn't mean every suit should get it. That said, maybe the 3-4 bonuses to logistics should be something like this: -Current bonuses to equipment (possibly slightly reduced) -2 bonuses to other equipment aside from enemy's equipment Amarr could be: -Decreased spawn time for uplinks -Increased spawn count for uplinks -Increased nanite capacity for nanohives (not as much as Caldari) -Longer visible duration for scanners (not as much as Gallente -(No bonus to repair tools because Minmatar are enemies) Minmatar could be: -Faster repair rate for repair tools -Increased range for repair tools -Increased resupply/repair rate for nanohives (not as much as Caldari) -Faster recharge time for scanners -(No bonus to uplinks because Amarr are enemies) Caldari could be: -Increased resupply/repair rate for nanohives -Increased nanite capacity for nanohives -Increased range for repair tools (not as much as Minmatar) -Increased spawn count for uplinks (not as much as Amarr) -(No bonus to scanners because Gallente are enemies) Gallente could be: -Decreased precision for scanners -Increased visible duration for scanners -Increased repair rate for repair tools (not as much as Minmatar) -Decreased spawn time for uplinks (not as much as Amarr) -(No bonus to nanohives because Caldari are enemies) Opinions? I'd like to see your idea for what the bonuses should be (bonuses towards equipment efficacy though, nothing like more nanohives being able to be carried or deployed...those kinds of bonuses would not be easily balanced) _______________________________________________________________________________ Again, maybe this idea is crazy, I'd just like to see each suit have a defined playstyle rather than every logistics class be the same with different armor/shield values Yeah, repair tools are probably the most useful tool for DIRECT SUPPORT logistics, but why do the Amarr or Caldari need to be good at playing direct support? These should be the passive support classes and should get bonuses towards a passive playstyle. Not saying each race should be one or another (they all should be capable or doing anything), but there should be a clear reason/advantage for wanting to skill into one suit and not the other. As a final side note, YES these bonuses are hotfixable because they added a grenade cpu reduction to assaults without having it pre-existing. Hotfixable things are those dealing with numbers and pre-existing content. You don't need to make a "physical" asset in order to add a bonus to a skill, because in-game it's just a value. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4703	Posted - 2014.08.28 13:17:00 - [9] - Quote I'm gonna leave this here even if it gets lost eventually. Most scanners are fine except for the proximity scanner. It has the smallest scan "area of effect", and the fact that it doesn't even have at least 60 degrees is annoying. 45 degrees for a scanner that sweeps only 60 meters out (about the second circle on your radar) The proto flux has double that angle at 90 degrees and is a better "sweep" than the actual sweeper. So what if we did something crazy and made it 180 or even 360 degrees with a 60 meter range. You can instantly see those around you just like a scout can, but it takes an equipment slot and has a 10 second delay between pulses. Not to mention it even tells the enemy you scanned them. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4721	Posted - 2014.08.30 19:30:00 - [10] - Quote What is everyone's opinions on the buff to nanite injectors proposed for Delta? The same amount of shield replenished as armor? Sounds freaking awesome. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!

I-Shayz-I I----------I 4994	Posted - 2014.11.08 20:11:00 - [11] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Looking for continued feedback on the state of injectors, active scanners, and survivability in 1.9 Also check out the eWar thread to voice your opinions there. Injectors are awesome now. Being able to tell which person needs to be picked up by who is requesting it helps a ton. The problem now is that no one ever uses them because you can't get revives easily anymore. Because of this I suggest that wp is increased to 75 or even 100 since you can make that much easily by repairing a person for a few seconds. We also don't have the problem of people picking up someone in the middle of a gunfight multiple times for 60 points a pop...part of the reason it has never been increased before. Rewards are still an issue with logistics. Resupply, transport assist, and scanner rewards should all be increased as well. Triage and team spawn should be decreased. I find myself much more survivable in 1.9 using a dampener and precision on my logi, although I loved rattati's idea about giving logistics a better precision while assaults have better dampening. Team scans definitely helps the meta as profile dampeners are much more useful again and scouts show up on radar more frequently . They can also be broadcasted to nearby blue dots so that being a logi can be more team based instead of only helping your squad. Scanners NEED to be rebalanced in terms of stats. Proto Flux is overpowered and Proximity is the worst scanner in the game. Shorter range scanners should have wide angles while longer range ones should be small angles. This allows the total scanned area to be more equal for all scanners instead of the flux being able to scan an entire map while the proximity only scans a small patch of ground in front of your feet. HOWEVER, scanners do not need a nerf to range and Rattati is very wrong in thinking that they do. To add onto that, duration of all scanners should be nerfed instead, but only if you also slightly reduce recharge delay as well. Quantum scanners need to keep a significant advantage. Introducing squad-only scanners with the current durations would then be the next step. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
I-Shayz-I I----------I 5074	Posted - 2014.11.16 07:10:00 - [12] - Quote I should really make a video to organize thoughts better on this topic. There are too many ideas being thrown around with far too much detail and specific ways we all want to improve logistics differently. I would like to talk with some more people in-game about this. Please join my personal chat channel "Dusting Around" if you would like to throw your ideas my way to possibly include them in a summary video. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
I-Shayz-I I----------I 5074	Posted - 2014.11.16 10:53:00 - [13] - Quote Orion Sanjeet wrote: TL;DR version We need to change the end of match leaderboads and actual leaderboards so shallow s.o.b.s can stop tearing down ideas that are good for logis. P.S. Payouts would also have to be looked at, and can we please change how we earn orbitals? P.P.S. Changing the leaderboards like this would also improve new player retention because giving praise to a gamer is like giving crack to an addict. After rereading this I realize that it really doesn't belong in this topic. this is why I keep suggesting that triage bonuses should be reduced while things like equipment destruction and Intel assist should be increased. also Sentinels should have another way of earning wp since they are not able to use equipment. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
I-Shayz-I I----------I 5078	Posted - 2014.11.16 20:23:00 - [14] - Quote Equipment needs a full scale rebalance in terms of isk price and utility, we both know this more than anything. Things like the flux nanohive/proximity scanner being useless while flux scanner is OP, or the fact that the most useful equipment that runs the least amount of risk of loss (switching to another suit at a supply depot), has the lowest isk price? Proto Uplinks cost barely anything at all and give out tons of wp passively, while scans only give you points when someone kills someone within an average of 10 seconds of the scan results displayed. They recently made weapon variants the same price as standard...I'm in favor of SIDGRADES being the same price, things like the focused equipment can be a bit more pricy. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
I-Shayz-I I----------I 5084	Posted - 2014.11.17 07:06:00 - [15] - Quote I really don't want a shield rep tool in this game. It would be the most OP thing ever, and no one realizes why. Once you get them down to armor you might be able to take out 100 armor but then they rep shield HP back again. While you are busy taking out the constantly repping shields, the player's armor is slowly regenerating in the background. With armor repair tools you kill the guy if his HP drops to 0, but shield suits stay alive and can be repped after shields drop to 0. Even if you make it so that all it does is activate the player's personal recharge and doesn't actually add anything more to it, the only way to kill shield suits being repped would be to use a ton of alpha damage. When it comes to heavies, Armor Sentinels with HMGs wouldnt be able to do anything to repped shield suits (unless they take out the logi of course) 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
I-Shayz-I I----------I 5086	Posted - 2014.11.17 14:21:00 - [16] - Quote Juedfin90 wrote: But first of all, are you a logi? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha I've been a logi since I first stated regularly playing this game, way back in the closed beta. Introducing a shield rep tool just makes things more complicated than they need to be. Did you know that vehicles once had shield transporters? The reason why they were actually somewhat balance was that you could only have them active for a certain amount of time, and then there was a 30 second delay which you had to let the module recharge before being able to use it again. Adding delays? Preventing locks by different types of repair tools? Giving repair tools a cooldown or energy "pool" like cloaks and scanners have? Honestly we need to stop trying to suggest so many ideas at once and actually focus on one thing at a time here. Nothing against you Cross, but this thread feels more like an idea farm than a productive way to gather feedback. You should convince rattati to create a sticky for a specific change we want feedback about. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
I-Shayz-I I----------I 5087	Posted - 2014.11.17 14:51:00 - [17] - Quote Actually I have to aplologize. I just read the changes proposed in that spreadsheet on the first page and pretty much agree with everything there. Only two things I have issues with: 1. Leave the changes to logistics racial bonuses alone for now aside from the 50% reduction to equipment and the overal increase in equipment cost. 2. No proposed changes to rebalancing equipment (aside from the deployable changes), yet we're still discussing adding a shield transporter. I'm going to spend the day updating my equipment spreadsheet and will propose some numbers for the variants along with isk prices. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
I-Shayz-I I----------I 5116	Posted - 2014.11.19 19:15:00 - [18] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Looking forward to it Here ya go :P https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_ytb13XWe3th0KUWFdNJD5NS_0Pqv5U8acUmhPxh6Ss/edit?usp=sharing Took me a few hours but this is the rough proposal I have for how equipment should be changed based on the feedback in this post and my own personal opinions. For the isk page I decided to standardize prices for equipment...again these are rough numbers not biased on how effective certain equipment are or what is used more. Part of me wanted to do this for FW items but I got about 30 minutes in and realized that until we have a standardized isk price for items it would be impossible to try and give each FW item a fair price. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
I-Shayz-I I----------I 5123	Posted - 2014.11.19 23:38:00 - [19] - Quote Meee One wrote: I will admit triage hives seemed to have too many clusters... But having Pro level hive with less clusters than even a compact? Don't grenades take 12-24 clusters to refill? So,with this reduction i could refill 8 grenades,woo. And hybrids are bad enough as is,yet you want them to refill less? This seems like a good idea increasing carried amounts,but you're forgetting something. Logis are supposed to be equipment masters,and unless the equipment +carried is logistics exclusive imma say no. And logistics would require a class wide bonus to cluster amount to not completely destroy nanos effectiveness. Um The whole point here is to make it so that you can drop more equipment with less effectiveness per drop. This lets you use equipment more often while reducing the overall duration of equipment as to discourage spam. Equipment is still limited to 2 down at a time meaning that you can't just drop a hive (or 5) in an area and expect them to be there when you get back. The whole point is that you must constantly have this equipment on the suit for it to continue to be effective rather than dropping a ** ton of uplinks with 20 spawns on them each that will last forever. In combination with the new bandwidth proposal, it will be IMPOSSIBLE for people to spam equipment while still allowing dedicated logistics players to use tons of equipment. If that's not an insane amount of WIN-WIN to you then you have to be crazy or maybe you don't understand this proposal. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!**
I-Shayz-I I----------I 5201	Posted - 2014.11.29 22:21:00 - [20] - Quote I always use my weapon when possible...doesn't make me an effective slayer at all in my logi suit though. I don't agree with rep tool cooldowns though...Is rather just reduce triage wp rewards. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool!

I-Shayz-I I----------I 5280	Posted - 2015.03.12 11:30:00 - [21] - Quote Hotfix Echo makes me super happy. Seeing community ideas being put into the game is probably the best part of Dust 7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
I-Shayz-I I----------I 5310	Posted - 2015.03.28 10:42:00 - [22] - Quote Popping in to say that one of the best logistics players I knew back in chromosome still to this day runs a shield/speed tanked minmatar logi. Obviously the meta has changed, but back when there was such a thing as Type 2/ B Series / vk.1...running a speed logi healing back and forth was not only more fun, but definitely increased your survivability. The logistics was also defaulted to minmatar, which keeps in line with the idea of logistics players needing that speed boost to stay alive. Obviously the main reason logistics had reduced speed in uprising was to balance them from the assaults...but now that assaults have been buffed to usable levels again and have respectable HP amounts, I see no reason not to switch the speeds I don't see this change turning logistics suits into slayers at all. If that is a real issue then we can always adjust stamina to make assaults the better choice for traversal and movement compared to logistics 7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
I-Shayz-I I----------I 5422	Posted - 2015.04.27 10:10:00 - [23] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: So my logi brothers and sisters, this is a thing that has happened. That's a blank link for me. fortunately I found it when I quoted your post. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
I-Shayz-I I----------I 5423	Posted - 2015.04.27 12:40:00 - [24] - Quote Last time I made a video about a problem in Dust, Rattati actually did something about it. I know in the podcast he talked about the logi update coming soon after warlords 1.1 and Echo 1.1 but he was still frustrated that the community flipped out over the sidearm. Maybe I should do the same for logistics progression. it's really not that hard. Give logistics the same slot layouts as assaults, give them all 4 equipment at proto, then take away one for Amarr at each tier and give it a sidearm. Also give Caldari some extra CPU. On top of the assault/logi speed flip this will make them more than viable. Done. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
I-Shayz-I I----------I 5425	Posted - 2015.04.27 15:33:00 - [25] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Mister Goo wrote: Cross Atu wrote: So my logi brothers and sisters, this is a thing that has happened. If you mean the big blank page, ? What page is blank, the link works for me. Is it broken for anyone else? Remove the bold, that worked for me. edit: putting the bold outside of the url tags works too, just not inside. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
I-Shayz-I I----------I 5428	Posted - 2015.04.28 01:32:00 - [26] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: Also....now that we're swapping Logi and Assault suit speeds, Assaults should get a short-duration sprint buff, maybe 5 seconds, for cover-to-cover movement. I'm in favor of either reducing logi stamina, or increasing assault stamina. The way I think it should be: Assault: average mobility, high endurance Logi: high mobility, low endurance Currently it is: Assault: high mobility, average endurance Logi: average mobility, low endurance The biggest thing for slayers is the ability to keep moving and cross maps easily, and a simple stamina change will help prevent players from trying to use logistics as slayers. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
I-Shayz-I I----------I 5430	Posted - 2015.04.28 04:33:00 - [27] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: Good point, tho one must admit that the minsault has pretty solid stamina/regen atm. Still want to see that short-term sprint buff on the Assaults though, it's fundamental to the role and still leaves scouts with theirs. ALL minmatar suits have insane stamina regen. It's their racial bonus. Same as how all amarr suits have a ton of base stamina, caldari all have the highest base shield regen, and gallente have the highest armor regen Although after the recent update with armor regen, gallente lost their unique racial bonus of having base armor regen (most suits had 0 regen), but they still have the highest. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
I-Shayz-I I----------I 5437	Posted - 2015.04.29 06:09:00 - [28] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: btw, anybody have a TL;DL for the 2 hour clearing session there? Just overall highlights and relevant points-unless it's a 2 hour convo solely and specifically on Logis, in which case I'll make 2 hours for it. Skip to about 1:30:00 for the logi part. Maybe 1:35:00 7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
I-Shayz-I I----------I 5442	Posted - 2015.04.29 10:20:00 - [29] - Quote I made a thread for logistics progression https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=200663 7162 wp with a Repair Tool!

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