I really mean it. The bonuses made sense.
Both scout suits had the dampening bonus, because getting seen as a scout is ******* stupid and having one "stealth scout" is ******* stupid. You're either a "stealth scout" or "not actually a scout" IMHO.

Also this idea of having counter scout hunters I don't like either. We called BS when the counter to Tanks was "More Tanks" and I'm calling BS now on the idea of using any scout to counter other scouts. I've warmed a little to the idea of Amarr swapping damp for precision as they're a kinda of bridge between light and medium and they're limited to two highs, and will be vulnerable to a medium with a scanner. But ultimately we can't let them become the radar beacons we currently have.

Scout on Scout tended to be blind "ninjas in the dark" fights. The real counter to scouts was a high level scanner and any one spotting a glimpse of you. Even just having people know you're there in the area was a threat so "Some Margin of Error" was a partial counter.

This was a concern I had back when the details for 1.8 were announced and was why I waited a month before even trying 1.8.

I've generally kept quiet on how much I hate this paradigm we're working with because there's been some support/acceptance of it here from scouts I respect and consider far more experienced that I, so I ran with it and tried to work with it. But I'm watching us just go around and around in circles and it's driving me mad.

Yeah we lacked quite a bit in speciality. So one of us getting hacking etc was a decent idea. As far as HP goes everything should be built around fast repping. Perhaps a flat bonus to all rep/recharge modules wouldn't go astray.

Maybe I'm just getting frustrated because I'm being told a scout that's hard to scan and has it's own decent passive scans is OP by people who have no idea what I had pre 1.8 because scouts apparently didn't exist back then, the fact that my bread and butter for 6 months was an undampened BPO shotty and that SCAN ATTEMPT PREVENTED was almost burnt onto my screen meant nothing to them, running that build now is suicide.
Or another player that said scouts shouldn't even be consulted on balancing because they "ruined chromosome" despite me not being here at that time, nor that even being relevant.

Appia's right, take away the Gal precision and give them such a bonus to range and angle that they'll be the ballirinas of old. People run the passive scan scout build to see medium and heavy frames as well. If your hand held scanner has roughly the same precision but heaps more range then I think people will run it. Gal logis will be forced to not just tank and run a proto scanner to see scouts, forcing scouts to at least dampen. But this issue of losing half of your mod slots to be the invisible bastard you were born to be is bollocks. And I'm saying this as a Gal scout who doesn't have this problem.

Also my conversations with folks is making me realise that only 50% of balancing discussions are actually based on the game and the rest is based on player trends. Look at the sudden switch to RE spam late last year, what changed? They were always deadly, but somewhere along the line people noticed it and it became the new Core Locus spam. And we're currently experiencing this with the scout passive scan.
And people forgetting that ballarina scans even existed is making me smash my head into the table.

So sorry if this seems mis-placed but this whole thing is driving me up the wall and is ultimately the reason why I've stepped away for the time being.

I'm not raging at you guys here, I know it's bad for my health but when I set foot out this door and talk to anyone I facepalm.
Please don't take this to be an attack on any specific bastards, it's not, but I worry we're trying to polish a turd here.

And also apologies, I know this is incoherent rambling, but I'm pulling my hair out and this is the only place I feel I can vent honestly with people who understand even remotely what I'm on about.

Opinions on this corp logo

I think I'm getting better at them using the limited artwork

I it supposed to look like a snowflake?

It looks good. Better than mine I am sure.

Let's assume we got to set the new baseline precision.

What would we want it to be, and what damp/cloak combinations should beat it?

I'm of the opinion that any of the four frames should be able to dampen sufficiently to beat scans while cloaked. I like the idea of requiring two damps, if for no other reason than to discourage gal bricking.

Let's assume we got to set the new baseline precision.

What would we want it to be, and what damp/cloak combinations should beat it?

I'm of the opinion that any of the four frames should be able to dampen sufficiently to beat scans while cloaked. I like the idea of requiring two damps, if for no other reason than to discourage gal bricking.

It's not christmas

40/40 - no changes to modules. Cal get Range, Amarr can have Precision, Gallente can have dampening and Min can have exactly what they have (with codebreakers moving up high) and gal-logi precision bonus changing.

number work out beautiful that way

If you give Cal a bonus to Range then they have incentive not to dampen in the first place.

as a scout my first priority is being hidden. my call will be a 2x dampener shield tanked scout because being hidden is more important than scan range. move range to high slot and it would be worth having range and half ass dampening.

snip...

And this is DUST where you have the freedom to run the suit the way you want it. It doesn't sound worth it to you, but running Precision and Range Amp with a plate would be my preferred way. And I'm sure other people would just ignore EWAR completely

The cloak isn't even worth it anymore. just remove the damp bonus completely so no one ever uses it.

The cloak dampening bonus was never useful. If I can be scanned at all, cloaked or not then it doesn't matter to me.

If anything the cloak should have a negative profile bonus.

Thats what i was thinking before 1.8 come out. I didn't think being invisible to both scan and sight was balanced. but then again when moving we are not really that invisible and being visible to scan puts a pointer over our head.

Thats what i was thinking before 1.8 come out. I didn't think being invisible to both scan and sight was balanced. but then again when moving we are not really that invisible and being visible to scan puts a pointer over our head.

9/10ths of people who play DUST are either blind or mentally unable to piece together what their eyes are seeing.

That's why it works so well.

I seriously have trouble understanding how people complain about being popped from a cloak shotgunner. I'm series when I say I shoot them down first.

Unless they get me from behind in which case the cloak didn't matter - or shot me down because they didn't use a cloak in the first place

I seriously have trouble understanding how people complain about being popped from a cloak shotgunner. I'm series when I say I shoot them down first.

Unless they get me from behind in which case the cloak didn't matter - or shot me down because they didn't use a cloak in the first place

I seriously have trouble understanding how people complain about being popped from a cloak shotgunner. I'm series when I say I shoot them down first.

Unless they get me from behind in which case the cloak didn't matter - or shot me down because they didn't use a cloak in the first place

I really mean it. The bonuses made sense.
Both scout suits had the dampening bonus, because getting seen as a scout is ******* stupid and having one "stealth scout" is ******* stupid. You're either a "stealth scout" or "not actually a scout" IMHO.

[...]

So sorry if this seems mis-placed but this whole thing is driving me up the wall and is ultimately the reason why I've stepped away for the time being.

I'm not raging at you guys here, I know it's bad for my health but when I set foot out this door and talk to anyone I facepalm.
Please don't take this to be an attack on any specific bastards, it's not, but I worry we're trying to polish a turd here.

And also apologies, I know this is incoherent rambling, but I'm pulling my hair out and this is the only place I feel I can vent honestly with people who understand even remotely what I'm on about.

I've always wondered if TV settings have something to do with it also, some high end TV's can create a blurring together of frames. Wasn't there a thing in MAG where if you changed the Gamma settings it was easier to see players in camo?

My TV is pretty high end and large and I've had moving scouts disappear as they move from one background to another. On some back grounds they're as clear as day. Others if it wasn't for the chevron or red reticule I wouldn't see them at all.

Will you guys still continue playing Dust after the Destiny release, or the beta release?

Yes as I can't afford it. Unless there's some sort of exodus...then it just depends how much fun I can have hacking objectives under the nose of the three people on the other team in my MINJA ALT WITH ISHNOKS, an L1 mass driver, and MAXHAX MUA HAAH AH HAH (but seriously I dumped 7m into Minja on an alt yesterday and am having a blast - it's not even core-maxed but I'm going positive KDR LOL)


Hmmm guess I could've TPLAK'ed

I'm tending to agree...I don't think I'm particularly good about theorising on what should work and what shouldn't, but if we're saying precision is OP, then you have to ditch it as a bonus completely. Personally as I've said before I think precision is useless without range, but ATEOTD, maybe it just needs ditching.

Of course this causes problems with role-defining bonuses then for Gal because what's the point of the innate Gal damp bonus if they no longer have a natural counter, and we are already struggling with role-defining bonuses for the Amarr. But you also I believe make the minja viable...so you kind of break gal and fix minja. Which seems kind of crap for those who specced into Gal.