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Booby Tuesdays Tuesdays With Boobies 762	Posted - 2014.08.12 16:12:00 - [1] - Quote I primarily run Min Logi. STD in Pubs, ADV/PRO in FW, and PRO in PC. 1. Equipment spam has got to go. Hey, hey, ho, ho! Even something as simple as removing all dropped equipment when changing fits. Respawn in the same fit? Equipment stays. Not sure how easy of a hotfix this would be. This is a double edged sword, as my Link Spam fit and Hive Spam fit would not be usable one right after the other, but maybe this is a good thing? 2. One equipment bonus on a suit that is made to carry a wide range of equipment? That makes no sense to me, especially when two races get the better end of it with rep tools and links. A flat 15% bonus to all equipment (while still keeping the current main equipment bonus) would go a long way in helping out the pack mules. 3. eHP has been "king" for a while, but I am not looking for Logis to have any extra HP. They should be able to regen much faster than other suits imho. They are already slower, with less HP, and no sidearm. What is the big deal if they can duck behind cover and quickly get back to supporting their team? A slow speed, low HP, slow regen suit in combat is a terrible support suit if it can't stay alive long enough to do its damn job. Provide efficacy bonuses to Shield and Armor Regen modules? I started a thread on this subject and it turned into Slayer Logi QQ... 4. Add. An. Accept. Revive. Prompt. Good lord, why is this not a thing yet? 5. Quick switch to favorite equipment. We have no sidearm, so why can't we add a favorite equipment slot, that pressing R2 will quick switch to? This idea has been brought up many times, and always seems to fall by the wayside. 6. Please dial in the select wheel, I swear that thing is more finicky than that gold digging Kate Upton. The delay and lack of accuracy makes switching equipment frustrating sometimes in the heat of battle. See number 5 above. There are a lot of good ideas in this thread so far. Shayz also has some great suggestion threads as well. How many of these are feasible to implement, I have no idea. I'm just glad it is finally on the table. Melee Weapon of Choice: Nokia-3310 Prof. V
Booby Tuesdays Tuesdays With Boobies 762	Posted - 2014.08.12 19:21:00 - [2] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: i disagree with your injector rant.. in charlie(or was it delta) they are getting changed.. pro get more WP as standard/mil get less.. OH and lets not forget Pro also Rep80%+ of the persons armor This has been delayed due to an unexpected tech barrier. This is the saddest thing I have read in a while. That's what I get for getting my hopes up... Melee Weapon of Choice: Nokia-3310 Prof. V
Booby Tuesdays Tuesdays With Boobies 778	Posted - 2014.08.15 16:26:00 - [3] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Oh the previous poster absolutely brings up s brilliant point. Logis do not have the speed to support a push of assaults. This is a massive problem given their low survivability under fire. A logi caught alone is likely helpless against opportunistic killers. They need to be as fast as a assault team of the same race. I would posit that making a logi 10-15% faster than an assault so they can respond faster to needed support actions and can dive for cover when under direct fire. In my experience in coordinated squad vs coordinated squad, whoever loses the logi first gets shredded. I don't know that we should be faster than Assaults, but we should at the very least be able to keep up. Especially with the basic movement speed, we can't run with the rep tool out, so it results in a lot of re-reacquiring a lock on after sprinting to catch up. Do we need more stamina and speed? Better efficacy to rechargers, regulators, and armor reps? Lower delay to shield regen? Built in reps again, at 1, 2, and 3 respectively for basic, advanced and pro? I don't think we need more HP, just a little added survivability. I think Logis are pretty close to perfectly balanced, but now that every other suit has been buffed, we need just a little something to bring it all together. Melee Weapon of Choice: Nokia-3310 Prof. V
Booby Tuesdays Tuesdays With Boobies 779	Posted - 2014.08.19 04:32:00 - [4] - Quote Meee One wrote: While you're looking at the logistics suits.... Fix the Min logis stats. It has more armor than shields and it's supposed to be a shield based race. It has 90 shields and 150 armor. Used to be 120 Shield and 150 Armor. This was back in Chrome. It was a stealth nerf in Uprising 1.0 and was never explained why. Melee Weapon of Choice: Nokia-3310 Prof. V
Booby Tuesdays Tuesdays With Boobies 788	Posted - 2014.08.22 22:10:00 - [5] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: But it's not much different now with the buff to armor reps. Its either an enhanced repper or an enhanced plate, basically (+5hp/s or +100 hp). I can't quote the fitting costs off the top of my head, but they aren't so different as to be a bigger deal than the speed penalty for equipping a plate. Given the choice, I'd rather have the base HP for that reason if nothing else, tbh. Well you kinda touched on my point. Let's assume we don't buff the Logi HP Assault has the +100HP, fits a rep. Has HP & Rep. No downside. Logi has the rep, needs to fit HP mod to compensate for low base HP. Has HP & Rep. Stuck with downside of HP mod. Adding reps instead of base HP is the same result as adding hp instead of reps, but it's really 2 steps forward and one step back, and it feels kinda messy. I'd rather just have the 100 more HP in that case. I would rather not have a "throw moar HP at it!!!" approach. Assaults now have the same scan profile and precision as Logis. Why not lower Logi scan profiles and scan precision a tad? Say 45 dB for both? They still wouldn't be near a Scout's level, but it would help in a few areas. Give more stamina and recovery. Give us efficacy bonuses to Armor Reps and Shield Rechargers, Energizers and Regulators. Why can't Logi's be lower HP self repping suits of efficiency? I understand that, "Tuesdays!!! Armor reps are Gallente!!!" Well, do you think no technology has ever been stolen and used by gasp a competitor, even if it's less efficient? Ask the Germans where their rocket program went after WWII. Give us a basic bonus to ALL equipment, after all, it's what we DO. Anything but a blanket, "here's some more HP" solution... Melee Weapon of Choice: Nokia-3310 Prof. V
Booby Tuesdays Tuesdays With Boobies 789	Posted - 2014.08.23 02:53:00 - [6] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Booby Tuesdays wrote: Why can't Logi's be lower HP self repping suits of efficiency? Because all of the reps in the world won't save you from being alpha'ed. Don't get me wrong I like the idea of Medium suits being kickass as health regen, been harping on that for a while, but I also think with the current balance of damage and the HP of other suits, the Logis will fall into obscurity due to lack of survivability in comparison to everything else. Compromise then, perhaps a mix of rep bonuses and a boost to HP? This would definitely be a step in the right direction. I'm still pissed the Min Logi lost 30HP when Uprising dropped. Logis should be fantastic at everything except tanking and ganking. Should you be able to get ganked by a Logi if they get the drop on you? Absolutely, but you get the point. Our suits should be able to Logi themselves when we're busy Logi'ing everyone else. It's the basic stats of the Logi suit that are the issue for me. We barely rep faster than a Commando, and are barely FASTER than a Commando. The poster above talking about their brick tanked and now obsolete slayer logi fits is a prime example of the direction we do NOT need to head back down. eHP should not be the answer just because every other suit in the game has been buffed over the past year. On a side note, bummed you didn't get elected. I voted for ya, fwiw. Melee Weapon of Choice: Nokia-3310 Prof. V
Booby Tuesdays Tuesdays With Boobies 789	Posted - 2014.08.23 03:01:00 - [7] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Booby Tuesdays wrote: Why can't Logi's be lower HP self repping suits of efficiency? I understand that, "Tuesdays!!! Armor reps are Gallente!!!" Well, do you think no technology has ever been stolen and used by gasp a competitor, even if it's less efficient? Ask the Germans where their rocket program went after WWII. Give us a basic bonus to ALL equipment, after all, it's what we DO. Anything but a blanket, "here's some more HP" solution... Rather, any race can rep, but they Gallente specialize in it. Just like any race can shield tank, but the Caldari do it better. Exactly. Melee Weapon of Choice: Nokia-3310 Prof. V
Booby Tuesdays Tuesdays With Boobies 802	Posted - 2014.08.30 02:18:00 - [8] - Quote Zindorak wrote: Maybe give Am logi +1 to deployable links per level I'm fine with that, as long as you lose your sidearm and the max active for any link stays at 2. An Amarr Logi running around with 24 links would be very, very annoying. Melee Weapon of Choice: Nokia-3310 Prof. V
Booby Tuesdays Tuesdays With Boobies 804	Posted - 2014.08.30 16:55:00 - [9] - Quote Zindorak wrote: Booby Tuesdays wrote: Zindorak wrote: Maybe give Am logi +1 to deployable links per level I'm fine with that, as long as you lose your sidearm and the max active for any link stays at 2. An Amarr Logi running around with 24 links would be very, very annoying. No I don't think you understand +1 max active per level is what i think we should get. Im willing to give up a sidearm Nah, I was picking up what you were putting down. That's why I said it's fine as long as it wasn't active deployable. You seriously, no trolling, want to be able to deploy 21 active uplinks on 1 suit? I thought part of this thread was trying to limit equipment spam, and you want to make the Amarr Logi the biggest spammer in the game? Do you find it that hard currently to just switch between two or three different Amarr Logi fits and spam every link available? Melee Weapon of Choice: Nokia-3310 Prof. V
Booby Tuesdays Tuesdays With Boobies 806	Posted - 2014.08.31 23:03:00 - [10] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: 5% bonus to needle repair amount Would this make anyone I revived invincible for a minute if I use the State Kaalakiota Injector? Melee Weapon of Choice: Nokia-3310 Prof. V

Booby Tuesdays Tuesdays With Boobies 852	Posted - 2014.09.30 17:05:00 - [11] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: @ Cross - Bad URL Fie! /me fights with google EDIT: Try now. Still nada. No URL listed. EDIT: Working now! Day One Proto Minmatar Commando. A Mass Driver IS My Sidearm.
Booby Tuesdays Tuesdays With Boobies 852	Posted - 2014.09.30 17:24:00 - [12] - Quote Will post more in depth later, but my initial takeaways... I would vote for method 2 in regards to the bonus changes. I would vote to split the difference with the changes to deployable and active equipment. Too big of a sweeping change imo. I would vote to half the proposed HP buffs, and further buff the regen. At first I was shocked at losing CPU and Grid, but then I saw the 50% reduction to equipment, but then I saw the 25% increase to actual fitting requirements. We want to make logis better with equipment, not completely take it out of every other suits hands, yes? I think we are making some good progress! Day One Proto Minmatar Commando. A Mass Driver IS My Sidearm.
Booby Tuesdays Tuesdays With Boobies 854	Posted - 2014.09.30 19:33:00 - [13] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Replies in order, and also thanks for the feedback looking forward to the in depth post to come Thanks, vote for method 2 noted - this is one key area I really hope to get a lot of feedback on. The main reason I prefer this method is for the extra buffs per racial suit. This allows each suit to be better with equipment, but still maintain some semblance of individuality. As much as I would like to have the blanket buff to all equipment, it blurs the reasons for picking one suit over the others. I would even go so far as to add a fourth even smaller bonus to round out the "Big 4" as you put it. Cross Atu wrote: The difference between deployable and active equipment? Do you mean the change to fittings costs, because that is applied to "the big four" Links, Rep Tool, Hives, Scanner. Please elaborate on this so I know what specifically you're saying here My bad, by deployable I mean carried. Again, I would split the difference. Something along the lines of 6 carried, 2 active, 10 spawns for links. 6 carried, 2 active, 24 clusters per hive. No instapop, but also more strategic versus drop and forget. The other question is what happens to special equipment such as Gauged Hives? Would you still be able to carry and deploy more of them versus their cheaper counterparts? Cross Atu wrote: I'm open to the notion of focusing eHP more heavily on regen than raw HP, care to provide some numbers for your ideal breakdown? (everyone else feel free to jump in on this point as well, yea, nay, degrees, whatever ) I'm all for slight HP buffs, but with max skills Logis will be quite tankable again with those numbers. I think Min at 125, 175. Amarr at 120, 240. Gal at 110, 220. Cal at 220, 110. Each race still gets a buff, just slightly less so to compensate for Core Skills. I would be willing to go even less than this as well. Say a flat 30 HP buff to each suit. Cross Atu wrote: Current changes to CPU/PG, role bonus (i.e. equipment fittings cost reduction), and equipment fittings requirement increase are closely interlinked. The current method has the following effects (barring a few edge outliers, as there are a lot of possible fitting configurations. I love that this big change is also a big incentive to put equipment in every slot. Again, my concern is that the other suits will no longer be able to carry meaningful equipment, especially with the proposed radical change to carried and active equipment. How is a Basic Hive going to help my Min Commando hold a point with my Swarms if it pops after 1 clip? This incentive to place better equipment on your suit would be an indirect nerf to all other suits. I'm all for forcing Logis to fill all their equipment slots, I just don't think these changes are the solution. A step in the right direction, yes. This brings me to Regen, Speed, and EWAR. I love that you added the 1HP/s back. Gal still gets more, that's their thing, but even 1HP/s is huge for Logis. The stamina boosts are nice as well. Shield recharge timers are fine for depleted, but I would shave off a second for normal delay, as well as buff the amount of regen to match the assaults. They are the same suit basically, why would they have different amounts of shields regenerated? Is it due to the slightly quicker regen timer? To be fair, I would shave a second off of the Assault regen timer as well. With speed, I would only change movement speed. I would have it match their corresponding racial Assault variant. Again, they are the same suit. I would leave the Assaults with the higher sprint speed however. We are carrying heavy equipment after all! In regards to EWAR, Logis are a little lacking here as well. I think a flat 45dB for precision and profile would go a long way. Slightly better than Assaults, but not stepping onto a Scout's toes. The scan range buff is awesome as well. Anywho, that's my two bits for now. Feel free to praise or ridicule as need be, lol. Day One Proto Minmatar Commando. A Mass Driver IS My Sidearm.
Booby Tuesdays Tuesdays With Boobies 855	Posted - 2014.09.30 21:09:00 - [14] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Thanks for the clarification, Cross. Last but not least, the +25% non-Logi EQ tax is steep. From a Scout's POV, this change will make it very difficult to fit decent EQ alongside cloak. This will affect all Scouts (not just Logi Scouts) and will impact low-level Scouts especially hard. I'd urge caution on this point. Direct buffs to the Logi I can get definitely get behind, but I don't know that it's necessary, appropriate or safe to kick other classes in the balls. Frames are closer than ever to balance, and an indirect nerf on this scale could have unintended consequences. My two cents. o7 This is pretty much exactly what I was failing to explain properly. I want equipment to be better in a logi's hands, and inferior in anothers, but I don't want the equipment to be useless to the point of not being able to fit anything. There are plenty of times that I will be carrying the ammo, links, and reps, but a squadmate will have the scanner on an Assault or Scout suit. With this proposal, that Assault or Scout would maybe be able to carry a basic scanner. Day One Proto Minmatar Commando. A Mass Driver IS My Sidearm.
Booby Tuesdays Tuesdays With Boobies 859	Posted - 2014.10.01 14:21:00 - [15] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: My question remains the same however, if under the current status of the game those support needs can be readily met without the presence of a logistics fame in squad what incentives can make said frame of adequate value to field? Ok, so what I am gathering is that from this angle of attack is if a squad or solo player wants good equipment, they will need a Logi by their side. Even a full squad with basic and advanced equipment wouldn't be as effective as a squad with a single Logi. This concept works in theory. What about when a Commando, a suit made for running alone, can only carry basic or advanced equipment, even on a Proto suit. I can barely fit Proto rep hives on my Min Commando currently, while using LP store Specialist weapons, and a mix of Proto and Adv modules. With this new concept of equipment, I would just need to spawn my Logi suit first, drop some goodies, and then switch to my Commando with inferior equipment to defend an objective. Not a huge deal, but aren't we trying to get away from that playstyle? Drop and swap suits playstyle? Or should that be a thing, since I am specced into both, should I not be able to reap the benefits of both? How about the Scout uplink runner that plays a key tactical role as well? If we are making equipment even worse, except in a Logi's hands, shouldn't each Logi then get a boost to all equipment? What is the point of running Logi if one or more of your equipment is just as garbage as a non-logi squadmates? That brings us back around to the whole, "a blanket buff to all equipment for Logis just homogenizes the role too much" argument that I agree with. If we give a blanket buff, then how do we differentiate between the races again? I agree with the logic of the equipment changes in theory, I just am failing to see how they will work in practice... Perhaps I need more coffee. Mmmm... Coffee.... Day One Proto Minmatar Commando. A Mass Driver IS My Sidearm.
Booby Tuesdays Tuesdays With Boobies 860	Posted - 2014.10.01 15:18:00 - [16] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Booby Tuesdays wrote: Ok, so what I am gathering is that from this angle of attack is if a squad or solo player wants good equipment, they will need a Logi by their side. To take this thought one step further ... what might be accomplished by a squad of six Logis each with 1000+ HP, a proto fine rifle, and vastly superior equipment? To play devil's advocate, would that be any worse than the current full squads of Assault/Logi Scouts we have today? Your point brings up the very reason I am tentative at giving Logis much of an eHP buff, and instead would rather them be self repping machines. Point any high alpha weapon at a Logi, +50, but If that Logi makes it to cover, or their teammates jump into the fray, that Logi could be back to form fairly quickly. Day One Proto Minmatar Commando. A Mass Driver IS My Sidearm.
Booby Tuesdays Tuesdays With Boobies 861	Posted - 2014.10.01 16:02:00 - [17] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: In my opinion, a better question is ... If this proposal were passed as is, would 6 Slayer Logis out-slay 6 Assaults? PS: I like your corp name, by the way. A great book :-) Do you feel that would happen because of the improvement of the Logi's bonus? Or because of the increase in resource cost for equipment? I think the concern here is if Logis get a boost to eHP, as well as a better fitting bonus, that leaves more room for tank and gank modules, as well as having the best equipment. This was the initial reason Logis were the go to suit for a bit. Day One Proto Minmatar Commando. A Mass Driver IS My Sidearm.
Booby Tuesdays Tuesdays With Boobies 861	Posted - 2014.10.01 16:03:00 - [18] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: PS: I like your corp name by the way. A great book :-) Haha, yeah. You can't go to Detroit Public Schools and not be forced to read it. It still is a good book for sure. He has got a little preachy in his old age, but still a good writer. Day One Proto Minmatar Commando. A Mass Driver IS My Sidearm.
Booby Tuesdays Tuesdays With Boobies 862	Posted - 2014.10.02 00:34:00 - [19] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Booby Tuesdays wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: In my opinion, a better question is ... If this proposal were passed as is, would 6 Slayer Logis out-slay 6 Assaults? PS: I like your corp name, by the way. A great book :-) Do you feel that would happen because of the improvement of the Logi's bonus? Or because of the increase in resource cost for equipment? I think the concern here is if Logis get a boost to eHP, as well as a better fitting bonus, that leaves more room for tank and gank modules, as well as having the best equipment. This was the initial reason Logis were the go to suit for a bit. I apologies for being a bit nit picky here (I kind of hate it when people do that on forums) but for the sake of clearlity this one needs pointed to. eHP is not the same as HP HP = Raw value of buffer tank eHP = *Effective* Hit Points, and depending on the use case things like mobility, eWar, etc can apply here. Things like HP regeneration and damage reduction certainly do apply here. The concern over total eHP and dps output is one of the key reasons for the suggested change in equipment fittings values along with the reduction to average logistics base fittings resources (stats on suit). Correct. The reason I say eHP is because with the buff to HP + Core Skills, adding in the fitting bonus and regen buffs will possibly make fitting the modules you speak of easier. I guess my point is to just make sure and tread carefully with the fitting bonus and CPU / Grid reductions and buffs. I too am not the greatest at math. Day One Proto Minmatar Commando. A Mass Driver IS My Sidearm.
Booby Tuesdays Tuesdays With Boobies 862	Posted - 2014.10.02 00:37:00 - [20] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Thinking more on it I wouldn't mind Method 2 if the concept of making Repair Tools a Role Bonus rather than a Min Bonus was brought over from Method 3. EDIT: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15aVEIBYvliNdoSlu0RX_dt4zfXBjdDMx2iNoFoPY3Fw/edit?usp=sharing For simplicity, I'd just add the Repair Tool bonus to the Role Bonus along with the Fitting Reduction, that way you're not listing the same damn thing on every suit. I may be in the minority here, but I have no desire to have a bonus to RE's, and am still confused why they are considered equipment when you unlock them with grenades... Day One Proto Minmatar Commando. A Mass Driver IS My Sidearm.

Booby Tuesdays Tuesdays With Boobies 862	Posted - 2014.10.02 00:44:00 - [21] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: But I think I still have to go with Cross in that I see zero problem with non-logis's needing to downgrade their equipment. To anyone who disagrees, I'll pose the same question as Cross. If other classes can use the same equipment in a totally self-sufficient way, why does the logi suit need to exist? You may like using the equipment, see a valid tactical reason for your particular suit class to need it, but in a global sense, why does a squad, much less an organized PC team, need a logi if they can easily spread equipment out amongst others? I think this quote might put me on board with the direction equipment is heading. A squad should need and want a Logi. My other concern is will other roles want Logis to not be able to carry or use Proto weapons. If only a Logi can carry Proto equipment and weapons, it makes me wonder what type of blowback will arise. I am not adamently opposed to this, I'm mainly supporting, not killing, but I do need to defend myself from time to time. Just a thought. Day One Proto Minmatar Commando. A Mass Driver IS My Sidearm.
Booby Tuesdays Tuesdays With Boobies 869	Posted - 2014.10.04 01:25:00 - [22] - Quote I like the toned down numbers for HP. The main area of concern for me now is the Amarr and Gallente getting quicker shield regen timers, better percentages healed, AND double the passive armor reps. It puts their number awfully close to the "shield tankers". You could give them an extra shield HP healed instead? Making it 18 for both? What about 1 HP/s for all the frames, except Gallente, which would retain 3 HP/s? I just want to avoid any potential "Slayer" QQ. This would also be a good time to take the Min Logi in line with the other racial suits, and flip flop the shield and armor numbers. Give 30 extra shields, and 10 extra armor. Making for 160 shield and 120 armor? With the new equipment numbers, if the "big 4" are such a big deal, then shouldn't there be a tiered bonus to all 4 as a Logistic player? I may have missed the reasoning for only getting a bonus to 3 of the 4. The fourth bonus would be to the racial "enemy" equipment variant, and as such would have the lowest bonus, like 1% or something. Low, yes, but still better in a Logis hands. The toned down equipment numbers are nice too. Not as drastic, but should still limit spam a tad. All in all, I think we are progressing nicely here! Day One Proto Minmatar Commando. A Mass Driver IS My Sidearm.
Booby Tuesdays Tuesdays With Boobies 871	Posted - 2014.10.06 21:05:00 - [23] - Quote Updating my vote from Method 2, to Method 2b. The big 4 should be best in a Logi's hands. Also, thoughts on swapping the Min Logi's Shield and Armor HP values? 160 Shield, 120 Armor? Stats would align more closely with the other Min suits. Day One Proto Minmatar Commando. A Mass Driver IS My Sidearm.
Booby Tuesdays Tuesdays With Boobies 872	Posted - 2014.10.06 21:54:00 - [24] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Booby Tuesdays wrote: Updating my vote from Method 2, to Method 2b. The big 4 should be best in a Logi's hands. Also, thoughts on swapping the Min Logi's Shield and Armor HP values? 160 Shield, 120 Armor? Stats would align more closely with the other Min suits. Seems sensible to me on first blush, anyone have reasons to raise why moderating the Min Logi profile to fit with the rest of the Min suits would be a poor change? Lore wise, minmatar are dual tankers. Not in the sense of they use shields and armor at the same time, but rather that some ships are meant to use shield, and others are meant to use armor. In Dust, I would say suits designed for front line combat (assault, sentinel) should benarmor tankers, and those meant for other roles (scout) should be shield based. MinLogi, depending on how we intend it to be used (in the thick of battle, or in the rear) and should base its shields/armor off that. That makes sense as well. Only the Min Sentinel and Min Logi favor armor currently. If those two suits are supposed to favor armor over shields, then how about keeping the armor and shield HP values, but swapping the amount buffed? 30HP to shields, and 10HP to armor. 120, and 160 respectively. Still favors armor, but also a bit more survivable. Puts it back to its Chrome values +10 armor. Day One Proto Minmatar Commando. A Mass Driver IS My Sidearm.
Booby Tuesdays Tuesdays With Boobies 874	Posted - 2014.10.09 23:25:00 - [25] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: A boat-ton of stuff Remember when mass driver logis were a primary support staple to assault squads? Good times. Hells yeah I do. You'd better believe I was one of those fools. I am still one of those fools... It is however still quite effective in the right hands. Day One Proto Minmatar Commando. A Mass Driver IS My Sidearm.
Booby Tuesdays Tuesdays With Boobies 1000	Posted - 2014.11.19 23:34:00 - [26] - Quote It is really refreshing to see some of these ideas discussed in this thread coming to life. Long Live Logistics!!! Half-Assed Forum Warrior / Half-Decent Commando / Damn Good Logi
Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Mercenaries 1176	Posted - 2014.12.23 03:44:00 - [27] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: This has basically become like the barbershop. Shouldn't we create our own version for logistics?. Patience, gotta wait for most of the changes to be implemented. Bandwidth was a great start, and I'm really hoping a few more of these great ideas see the light of day! Half-Assed Forum Warrior / Half-Decent Commando / Damn Good Logi / Matari Loyalty 7
Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Mercenaries 1218	Posted - 2015.01.24 01:10:00 - [28] - Quote Mordecai Snake wrote: What if triage points were only rewarded once the armor hits 100%? Like the opposite of a kill. Currently the Triage points are awarded only if the suit you are repping has done at least some damage to an enemy. The friendly you are repping may have taken a stray Core Locus, and all that repping time would be wasted, and there would be much bitching on the forums. The cool down via a capacitor on rep tools is the best idea, imho. Allow Guradian points and such, kill assists as well if an OB is being dropped, but no more 3k WP games just from holding R1. I get over 2k WP in PC's occasionally and the first thought from most is "rep tool ***", when I have actually been Logi'ing the ** out of my team. So there can still be a balance. Unfortunately, CCP and balance are initially like oil and water. Half-Assed Forum Warrior / Half-Decent Commando / Damn Good Logi / Matari Loyalty 7
Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Mercenaries 1220	Posted - 2015.01.24 03:06:00 - [29] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Mordecai Snake wrote: What if triage points were only rewarded once the armor hits 100%? Like the opposite of a kill. No. Because habitually they don't make it to full health before termination. Just as damaging but not killing the enemy will award assist points if they are killed by another player, a logi receives rep points for assisting the health of a merc. But all that goes away with a 100% needle. HUGE pet peeve of mine. I get punished for my 100% revives via warpoints. Less WP vs the Proto version, and less WP because I don't bust out the rep tool to top them off. Load of BS. Half-Assed Forum Warrior / Half-Decent Commando / Damn Good Logi / Matari Loyalty 7
Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Mercenaries 1220	Posted - 2015.01.24 03:08:00 - [30] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: What do I get from a capacitor? a limited time to heal? or is it more like an overdrive double or tripling my reps for a limited time? A logi is already gimped enough, let us not gimp them further Booby and Mordecai. You know the arguments about capacitors, but if we need to rehash them we can cut and paste again. Battles are too varied to establish a set time for healing - though some may stay 'leashed' far to often it is not standard of being a logi. Look at the entire class and the many actions it takes, then take another stab at what you may see as WP disparity. I have had great logi games where I did hit the top of the charts, that was with a well coordinated team. Most often those high WP matches are a rarity and not the established experience of all logis. They are the outliers, the 5%. If we keep working this through we must ask: Do we start adding capacitors to all suits then? And what would be their purpose? You see, If we have one capacitor it must be used on other things as well, will it: Limit uplink spawning to 1 per x seconds? Limit firing times for weapons to a x shots withing x seconds? Where will it end? Don't get me wrong, capacitors work well in Eve and create a dynamic battle system. I can see them on vehicles as some have mentioned, but what bonus do the infantry get from such things? If they someday have capacitors I hope it will be for the supersoldier modules we've talked about in the past. Like increasing damage for a certain amount of time or sprint speed, but then lowering that boosted stat for the time it was down. I could see a super rep tool variant that used a capacitor or supper rep module that used a capacitor, but it should not be the norm. I guess what I am trying to say, is that we need a point of diminishing returns in regards to WP from rep tools. I do not want them to cease in functioning via a capacitor. That would be a huge nerf to logis. It's the WP whoring we're trying to cure. Starting off with +25, and falling as low as 5WP before it cuts off is more of what I am looking for. Half-Assed Forum Warrior / Half-Decent Commando / Damn Good Logi / Matari Loyalty 7

Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Mercenaries 1222	Posted - 2015.01.24 03:10:00 - [31] - Quote Booby Tuesdays wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Mordecai Snake wrote: What if triage points were only rewarded once the armor hits 100%? Like the opposite of a kill. No. Because habitually they don't make it to full health before termination. Just as damaging but not killing the enemy will award assist points if they are killed by another player, a logi receives rep points for assisting the health of a merc. But all that goes away with a 100% needle. HUGE pet peeve of mine. I get punished for my 100% revives via warpoints. Less WP vs the Proto version, and less WP because I don't bust out the rep tool to top them off. Load of BS. ****, I'm going to quote myself. What if 100% revives negated a death count? Like flat out took away a kill, and saved a death. I bet a lot more folks would call for their friendly neighborhood Logi. Half-Assed Forum Warrior / Half-Decent Commando / Damn Good Logi / Matari Loyalty 7
Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Mercenaries 1222	Posted - 2015.01.24 03:17:00 - [32] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Booby Tuesdays wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Mordecai Snake wrote: What if triage points were only rewarded once the armor hits 100%? Like the opposite of a kill. No. Because habitually they don't make it to full health before termination. Just as damaging but not killing the enemy will award assist points if they are killed by another player, a logi receives rep points for assisting the health of a merc. But all that goes away with a 100% needle. HUGE pet peeve of mine. I get punished for my 100% revives via warpoints. Less WP vs the Proto version, and less WP because I don't bust out the rep tool to top them off. Load of BS. Too true Booby, I am not a fan of such mechanics. Should there be a logic check perhaps? If someone has a repper then the WP is recalculated because we could have repped? Should it work instead over time and not instant? say, give 30% now and keep repping until it reaches the 90% hp heald level and give rep points along the way? How do you think it should be fixed? Good question. It all comes down to what kind of math and patch type things can CCP do with their limited Dust staff? I think adding a 'Guardian' type award for needles, similar to Dropship pilots that get points for dropping off infantry, would go a long ways. If the friendly lives more than 30 seconds after the revive, you get a 'Savior' WP award, that scales with the type of needle you used. I don't think that would be too difficult to code? Half-Assed Forum Warrior / Half-Decent Commando / Damn Good Logi / Matari Loyalty 7
Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Mercenaries 1262	Posted - 2015.01.28 19:20:00 - [33] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: DJINN Jecture wrote: From a Minmatar Logi's perspective the current bonuses are fine, in fact they are rather good, still I stand by what I posted the first time it was suggested to use different equipment more effectively depending on race of Logi. I don't like it. I do like long rep ranges though and I also like all the other equipment I use but its really a no brainer here, you make all minmatars medics that is their role, and it pigeon holes them. Not that I can't use proto hives or links or needles or even scanners but I see a problem with the current iteration. Last iteration all I did with my matar logi was hack. Do you see a pattern here? I certainly do. I miss my MinLogis hacking bonus. Min Logi still has a 20% bonus to hacking speed. They took away 5% in Uprising 1.8, and gave an even greater bonus of 35% to the Min Scout. At max skills, the Min Logi gets a 45% bonus and the Min Scout gets a 60% bonus before adding Hacking mods. All Logis hack faster than any suit but the Min Scout, as the other 3 Logis have a 15% built in Hack bonus. A Proto Min Logi with 4 Complex Hack mods is still damn fast though. Half-Assed Forum Warrior / Half-Decent Commando / Damn Good Logi / Matari Loyalty 7
Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Mercenaries 1264	Posted - 2015.01.29 20:44:00 - [34] - Quote lee corwood wrote: Well that was fun but also labor intensive. I'm sending you 5 million ISK when I get home tonight. That was awesome. Small tweak though. The Min Scout gets a native 10% bonus before the extra 25% from racial bonus, and 25% from hacking skill. So, it starts off with 35% instead of 25% as you have listed. Again, badass video! Half-Assed Forum Warrior / Half-Decent Commando / Damn Good Logi / Matari Loyalty 7
Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Mercenaries 1264	Posted - 2015.01.29 20:50:00 - [35] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Booby Tuesdays wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: DJINN Jecture wrote: From a Minmatar Logi's perspective the current bonuses are fine, in fact they are rather good, still I stand by what I posted the first time it was suggested to use different equipment more effectively depending on race of Logi. I don't like it. I do like long rep ranges though and I also like all the other equipment I use but its really a no brainer here, you make all minmatars medics that is their role, and it pigeon holes them. Not that I can't use proto hives or links or needles or even scanners but I see a problem with the current iteration. Last iteration all I did with my matar logi was hack. Do you see a pattern here? I certainly do. I miss my MinLogis hacking bonus. Min Logi still has a 20% bonus to hacking speed. They took away 5% in Uprising 1.8, and gave an even greater bonus of 35% to the Min Scout. At max skills, the Min Logi gets a 45% bonus and the Min Scout gets a 60% bonus before adding Hacking mods. All Logis hack faster than any suit but the Min Scout, as the other 3 Logis have a 15% built in Hack bonus. A Proto Min Logi with 4 Complex Hack mods is still damn fast though. ProMin w/4complex breakers IS fast, still, but it definitely isn't as fast as it used to be. ProMin w/o 4 complex breakers, also, is fast-ish but also isn't as fast as it used to be. "As fast as it used to be" being what I miss about my MinLogis hacking bonus. EDIT: And, yes of course, that it was the fastest possible hacking suit on the block. It's only 5% slower. Like the difference from Hacking 0 to Hacking I. The Min Scout just gets an even greater bonus, thus making the Logi feel way slower. Take a look at the video lee corwood posted. We're talking about 2 tenths, 5 one hundredths, and 2 one thousandths of a second at max skills on a Proto suit. That's nothing, even with the low TTK. Half-Assed Forum Warrior / Half-Decent Commando / Damn Good Logi / Matari Loyalty 7
Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Mercenaries 1268	Posted - 2015.01.30 00:05:00 - [36] - Quote Zaria Min Deir wrote: First of all. ANYTHING with 4 complex code breakers hacks fast, even though with the stacking penalties, that 4th one is a bit questionable. Second. The difference between a pre 1.8 and post 1.8. fully skilled minlogi hack speed is not just 5%. 1.8 removed the minmatar logistics skill bonus of 25%, and buffed the minlogi built in hack speed modifier, yes, but not by 20%. That built in bonus was there pre-1.8. It was just buffed slightly (I seem to remember from 1.1 or 1.15 to 1.2) to differentiate the minlogi from the other logistics suits, which have the 1.15 built in modifier. The difference between minlogi and, say, amarr logi, is only 5%... when pre-1.8 it was considerably more than that. Are you sure that all Logis had a built in modifier? I was under the impression that all suits were at zero, and the Logi with skill bonus went up to a 1.25 modifier? Most drop suits have a built in hack modifier after 1.8 except 3 of the Assaults and all Heavy Frames. Kind of like they added native armor reps to all suits in 1.9. I can't find any spreadsheet on the old stats, and you could be correct. That would have meant the Min Logi hacked even faster than the Min Scout does today though. Half-Assed Forum Warrior / Half-Decent Commando / Damn Good Logi / Matari Loyalty 7
Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Mercenaries 1281	Posted - 2015.02.05 19:40:00 - [37] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Booby Tuesdays wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Things Stuff With the way that WPs work internally now I am not sure there needs to be any change here to be totally honest. However since I am not even remotely a fan of foregone conclusions, please outline for me the specifics of the situation and why it is a problem because I do not wish to assume there is nothing I have missed. Describe specifically what behavior you are trying to alter/address and why. Also what levels of WP would be considered proper, in what contexts, and why. Bonus Question: If diminishing returns were added should higher meta rep tools award more WP per cycle? (should they award more per cycle anyway considering that higher meta = fewer cycles and thus lower potential earnings in many contexts). Input on why/why not in both cases. Above questions open to all who wish to comment Cheers, Cross I guess the biggest issue for me is that some schmo can hold R1 the entire match and see little to no decrease in the amount of WP, versus a Logi that was an actual integral asset to the team via links, hives, reps/revives, and kills/kill assists. I honestly believe that if the rep tool had a point of diminishing returns, then the Logi WP whores would go do something else. I don't see many staying put and continuing to rep if they are not grossly rewarded for doing so. What I can see though, is a real Logibro staying and doing the job needed even if they are not getting as many WP as before. The diminishing returns could be offset by the tier of rep tool being used. Mlt/Basic would bottom out at 5 WP, Adv at 10, Proto/Specialist at 15. What would not change is the Guardian Warpoints, keep those as it is. If the WP values were going to change, I would have it at a 20, 25, and 30WP tier from Mlt/Basic to Proto/Specialist. What I do not want to see, is a rep tool that needs to physically cool down. Lower or no WP? Sure. Just don't have it stop working. Half-Assed Forum Warrior / Half-Decent Commando / Damn Good Logi / Matari Loyalty 7
Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Mercenaries 1283	Posted - 2015.02.06 01:04:00 - [38] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: TerranKnight87 wrote: Any changes to logis since i have been gone?. I stopped playing about 3 weeks before the new maps came. Nothing direct to Logis, unless it was ninja'd in. There have been several changes to other game elements as a whole which effect Logis peripherally, like passive scanning changes. Best spot unfortunately for finding that stuff tho would be in the FeedbackSticky archives. We did have our inherent reps returned to us, along with all other medium frames. I'm not sure where/when that falls relative to when you last played though. Re-Reads response, looks at thread OP date cries I have a feeling that things would move so much faster if the Logis were based around Aurum... Half-Assed Forum Warrior / Half-Decent Commando / Damn Good Logi / Matari Loyalty 7
Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Mercenaries 1285	Posted - 2015.02.06 15:02:00 - [39] - Quote Out of morbid curiosity, how long did Shottys Scout threadnaught take to get its first Dev response? We started this discussion, spreadsheet, and proposal over 6 months ago... Half-Assed Forum Warrior / Half-Decent Commando / Damn Good Logi / Matari Loyalty 7
Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 1389	Posted - 2015.03.12 15:25:00 - [40] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Hotfix Echo makes me super happy. Seeing community ideas being put into the game is probably the best part of Dust Hopefully Hotfix Foxtrot takes some of the ideas from this thread. We only started discussing it 7 months ago to the day. Not getting my hopes up. Learned to not do that ages ago, but a Logi can dream... Half-Assed Forum Warrior / Half-Decent Commando / Damn Good Logi / Matari Loyalty 7

Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 1390	Posted - 2015.03.12 22:41:00 - [41] - Quote Zaria Min Deir wrote: Also, not surprising. The only thing in hotfix echo that could be construed a logistics role buff (the equiment carried amount buff) even somewhat... Didn't go through? At least fully? Proto hives carried amount still 3 (gauged 4). Adv carried amount 6. I mean, yes, it buffs the adv hives. A lot. But still. I view it as a nerf. All suits can now carry a shitton of equipment. Scouts have hives and links for days. This makes the need for Logis moot. Two Scouts, 2 Assaults, a Heavy and a Logi will have more than enough equipment to last an entire match. Logis should be the only ones that can carry enough equipment to last a whole match, imho... Half-Assed Forum Warrior / Half-Decent Commando / Damn Good Logi / Matari Loyalty 7
Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 1390	Posted - 2015.03.13 04:04:00 - [42] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Booby Tuesdays wrote: Scouts have hives and links for days. Bandwidth (Scout v Logi) STD - 6 v 20 ADV - 9 v 28 PRO - 12 v 36 Keyword "have". Doesn't mean they can all be deployed at the same time. The amount of carried equipment is equal no matter the suit. This degrades the Logistics role, imo. Half-Assed Forum Warrior / Half-Decent Commando / Damn Good Logi / Matari Loyalty 7
Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 1441	Posted - 2015.03.24 01:16:00 - [43] - Quote And on the 82nd page Boobies checked in , looking for that elusive Blue Tag. Alas, it was not to be this day... IF YOU CAN READ THIS YOU DON'T NEED GLASSES
Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 1444	Posted - 2015.03.25 17:35:00 - [44] - Quote So, if the Logis get a small HP buff, swap speeds with the Assault frames, and attain better equipment bonuses; will people come back yelling about Slayer Logis? Assaults, Heavies, and Scouts will still be better slayers, imo. How does everyone feel about forcing equipment slots to be filled to make a fit valid? This is the direction Rattati took with the Madruger and Gunlogi, by forcing them to have small turrets. Could help ward off any die hard slayer logi QQ. IF YOU CAN READ THIS YOU DON'T NEED GLASSES
Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 1449	Posted - 2015.03.27 16:58:00 - [45] - Quote The Dark Cloud wrote: Mad Syringe wrote: This would just lead to never ending remote spam.... -1 DON'T DO IT! Then give the caldari its well deserved shield recharger tool then you can keep your reptool and the bonus the minlogi gets for it. LOL at half-assed ransom attempt. There is no way, with remotes in their current state, that ANY suit will get a bonus to them. A shield rep tool and role bonus is needed however, yes, agreed. IF YOU CAN READ THIS YOU DON'T NEED GLASSES
Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 1449	Posted - 2015.03.27 17:05:00 - [46] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: I'm of the stated view that Logi should be positioned between the Light frame and the Assault. Now what that means as to details I'm open about but I would actually support swapping speed with the Assaults. As has been shown repeatedly mobility effects the value of many support actions at such a profound level that the light frame line of suits can often be more viable as support even without skill buffs simply because of their enhanced mobility. Besides that if the Assault is going to be the more tanked medium frame (which seems reasonable) then making logi both more fragile and less capable of GTFO when they're outmatched seems like a good way to keep the role crippled. If you can't fight and you can't run and you can't really hide what do you do besides die? I see no reason why the Assault should be the medium frame with the better stats in everything aside from equipment slots, in fact in that context I see no way that the internal balance of medium frames can avoid being broken. 0.02 ISK Cross I think that a straight speed swap will also be an indirect nerf to the Min Assault, which would actually reign its super strafing QQ in. Cross, can you shed any light on whether or not Logis will be getting a bonus to ALL equipment, with certain races getting greater bonuses than others? A Min Logi's uplinks should be worse than an Amarr Logi, but greater than a Scout, Commando, or Assault. Also, even though I have suggested forcing equipment slots to be filled, I too am not a fan of forcing playstyles on people. However, I see no way to keep 'Logis OP' threads from popping up otherwise once we finally get the few buffs we need. IF YOU CAN READ THIS YOU DON'T NEED GLASSES
Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 1515	Posted - 2015.04.18 04:10:00 - [47] - Quote Friendly bump. 'Operation Cat Pic' is now officially 'Operation Rattati Smoking From Sherlock Holmes Bubble Pipe Whilst Holding A Cat'. IF YOU CAN READ THIS YOU DON'T NEED GLASSES
Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 1560	Posted - 2015.04.29 03:24:00 - [48] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: BTW, Rattati hiding behind that ridiculous defense of "everyone went ballistic" when he tried to revamp the logi suits before is getting really old, not that it was an even remotely legitimate argument to begin with. How fcking hard is it, really, to account for a sidearm? Particularly when the players in question have long showed a willingness to give up more than it's objectively worth? Give me a break. That was also before Rattati stopped taking *** from whiny little bastards. He now just glowers his cold viking death glare and they stfu. I think he would make more progress the second time around. IF YOU CAN READ THIS YOU DON'T NEED GLASSES

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