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Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1870	Posted - 2014.10.04 02:33:00 - [721] - Quote I still think John has the right idea even if the detail is different. Logos should get a bonus to ALL equipment (even, dare I say it, remotes/proxies) but simply have a bigger bonus to their racial equipment. But a rep tool on an Amarr logi should be quantifiably better than one on a matari scout. But the Matari logi should get a better bonus on the rep tool than the Amarr logi. I do like the idea of an equipment being in the sidearm slot for quick access though. Would it be as simple as giving the logis a sidearm, and then making the sidearm slot an equipment slot? The Amarr logo can lose this abilityfor the normal sidearm slot. Listen to my muscle memory Contemplate what I've been clinging to Forty-six and two ahead of me
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3086	Posted - 2014.10.04 03:06:00 - [722] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: I do like the idea of an equipment being in the sidearm slot for quick access though. Would it be as simple as giving the logis a sidearm, and then making the sidearm slot an equipment slot? The Amarr logo can lose this abilityfor the normal sidearm slot. That's a UI level change and as such won't be an option unless/until Dust development gets more resources and can do client updates. See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1871	Posted - 2014.10.04 04:41:00 - [723] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: I do like the idea of an equipment being in the sidearm slot for quick access though. Would it be as simple as giving the logis a sidearm, and then making the sidearm slot an equipment slot? The Amarr logo can lose this abilityfor the normal sidearm slot. That's a UI level change and as such won't be an option unless/until Dust development gets more resources and can do client updates. Unfortunate. But can we at least give the Cal and Am logis another equipment slot? Don't get why Min and Gal get 4 and not Cal and Am. Listen to my muscle memory Contemplate what I've been clinging to Forty-six and two ahead of me
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3090	Posted - 2014.10.04 06:46:00 - [724] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: I do like the idea of an equipment being in the sidearm slot for quick access though. Would it be as simple as giving the logis a sidearm, and then making the sidearm slot an equipment slot? The Amarr logo can lose this abilityfor the normal sidearm slot. That's a UI level change and as such won't be an option unless/until Dust development gets more resources and can do client updates. Unfortunate. But can we at least give the Cal and Am logis another equipment slot? Don't get why Min and Gal get 4 and not Cal and Am. I'm not sure but I think slot alterations are possible within the current development set up. I can look into that. o7 See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1871	Posted - 2014.10.04 07:00:00 - [725] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: I do like the idea of an equipment being in the sidearm slot for quick access though. Would it be as simple as giving the logis a sidearm, and then making the sidearm slot an equipment slot? The Amarr logo can lose this abilityfor the normal sidearm slot. That's a UI level change and as such won't be an option unless/until Dust development gets more resources and can do client updates. Unfortunate. But can we at least give the Cal and Am logis another equipment slot? Don't get why Min and Gal get 4 and not Cal and Am. I'm not sure but I think slot alterations are possible within the current development set up. I can look into that. o7 This would make my day, along with some extra pg/CPU to fit another equipment. CalLogi especially is tight even with a CPU mod. Listen to my muscle memory Contemplate what I've been clinging to Forty-six and two ahead of me
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3101	Posted - 2014.10.04 22:11:00 - [726] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: This would make my day, along with some extra pg/CPU to fit another equipment. CalLogi especially is tight even with a CPU mod. Cal CPU and Amarr PG are both on my list to be looked at/recommend tweaks to See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1877	Posted - 2014.10.05 07:46:00 - [727] - Quote Sure this has been mentioned already but... Suppose we got an increase to our equipment fitting bonus? Make it easier to fit better equipment/modules. Listen to my muscle memory Contemplate what I've been clinging to Forty-six and two ahead of me
Gyn Wallace OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 133	Posted - 2014.10.05 17:00:00 - [728] - Quote Booby Tuesdays wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Thinking more on it I wouldn't mind Method 2 if the concept of making Repair Tools a Role Bonus rather than a Min Bonus was brought over from Method 3. EDIT: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15aVEIBYvliNdoSlu0RX_dt4zfXBjdDMx2iNoFoPY3Fw/edit?usp=sharing For simplicity, I'd just add the Repair Tool bonus to the Role Bonus along with the Fitting Reduction, that way you're not listing the same damn thing on every suit. I may be in the minority here, but I have no desire to have a bonus to RE's, and am still confused why they are considered equipment when you unlock them with grenades... I agree. I really like method 3's emphasis on every race's logis being really good with a repair tool. I love the degree to which each race maintains a unique advantage, that makes my protoing out each race's logi feel less wasteful. I'm not enthused about the RE bonus for the Minmatar, though. Let me proposed a Method 3 modification: replacing the Minmatar RE bonus with a bonus to Kin cat effectiveness, the goal being that a Minmatar logi willing to spend most or all of his low slots on Kin cats, should be fast enough to keep up with a squad of scouts, unless they're all running kin cats too. This would also present an interesting counter to the Minmatar racial enemy, Amarr logi uplink bonus (although this could also be viewed as a downside, usurping the Amarr uplink logi bonus, much the same way scouts generally are better uplink deployers than Amarr logis).
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3104	Posted - 2014.10.05 17:42:00 - [729] - Quote Updated Iteration 2 Fixed improperly entered numbers Added 1 new skill method and 2 modified versions So please check out the doc link again although if you've been keeping up with this thread the only method you have not yet seen is my modified version of Method 3 in which the Minmatar as the single duel tanked race, has a bonus to Shield Transporter and Repair Tool as its two logistics bonuses. Obviously use of this method is entirely predicated upon the ability to get a shield transporter in game, but presuming that happens how would people feel about the modified method? I think it addresses most of the concerns I have seen raised about Method 3 and even gives more of a nod to lore in the bargain, but I want feedback on it, what do you think? Cheers, Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
RKKR The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 1038	Posted - 2014.10.05 18:58:00 - [730] - Quote How are things going with the DEVs? You see them talking about other stuff, posting in other threads,... but nothing here?

Mister Goo Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 31	Posted - 2014.10.05 19:51:00 - [731] - Quote Cross, I can get behind method 4, It looks solid and also makes all logi's viable in PC for their reps. I still don't think that RE's are equipment, but Pokey has made some good points about their use. Also leveling out the PG and CPU of each suit is a good idea if they normalize the slot layouts. Closed Beta Vet Minmatar Logistics I Repair, Revive, and Replenish. Leave the slaying for Assaults and Heavies.
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3106	Posted - 2014.10.05 20:04:00 - [732] - Quote RKKR wrote: How are things going with the DEVs? You see them talking about other stuff, posting in other threads,... but nothing here? They are well aware of this thread and project, I keep them apprised directly and have CC'ed them on the proposals. It is one of the values of the CPM, we can sponsor initiatives like this one and shave a lot of dev time off of revisions and polish by conducting this conversation with the community and then bringing that feedback to CCP. Rest assured that regardless of the presence of blue tags in this thread CCP is in the loop. Cheers, Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3106	Posted - 2014.10.05 20:05:00 - [733] - Quote Mister Goo wrote: Cross, I can get behind method 4, It looks solid and also makes all logi's viable in PC for their reps. I still don't think that RE's are equipment, but Pokey has made some good points about their use. Also leveling out the PG and CPU of each suit is a good idea if they normalize the slot layouts. Thanks for the continued feedback See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Logi Bro Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 3368	Posted - 2014.10.05 21:13:00 - [734] - Quote I'll admit I haven't been following this thread very closely, but I have to say I have a very strong dislike for method 3 and 4. By giving every logi a rep tool bonus, you are saying, "your primary role is to sit behind and rep people, that is your purpose, and you aren't fulfilling your maximum potential if you aren't doing so." It's basically dooming every logistics unit to triage, when that isn't even necessarily their purpose. It's like saying every square is a rectangle, but not every rectangle is a square. The purpose of logistics is support, and just because triage is a support function, that does not mean every support function is triage. I can slap REs, an active scanner, and a nanohive on my logi and I would still be a tried and true dedicated support logi, but it's not like I'm doing any sort of triage. You might say, "just because you have the bonus, doesn't mean you have to use it," but I would then respond by saying that is faulty logic. If you are trying to buff the class by giving it more bonuses, why would you then advocate for not using those bonuses just because someone wanted to be a different kind of support unit other than triage? Having said all that, I am beginning to believe that Method 1 is the best option, despite the homogenization. You choose your logi's race based on whatever you believe the best piece of equipment to be, but you are still better with every other piece of equipment than the other classes. Since the secondary bonus is not specific, you don't have to feel like you are mis-using your suit's potential for not equipping a specific piece of equipment. SP Sinks? Fixed.
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3111	Posted - 2014.10.05 21:23:00 - [735] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: I'll admit I haven't been following this thread very closely, but I have to say I have a very strong dislike for method 3 and 4. By giving every logi a rep tool bonus, you are saying, "your primary role is to sit behind and rep people, that is your purpose, and you aren't fulfilling your maximum potential if you aren't doing so." It's basically dooming every logistics unit to triage, when that isn't even necessarily their purpose. It's like saying every square is a rectangle, but not every rectangle is a square. The purpose of logistics is support, and just because triage is a support function, that does not mean every support function is triage. I can slap REs, an active scanner, and a nanohive on my logi and I would still be a tried and true dedicated support logi, but it's not like I'm doing any sort of triage. You might say, "just because you have the bonus, doesn't mean you have to use it," but I would then respond by saying that is faulty logic. If you are trying to buff the class by giving it more bonuses, why would you then advocate for not using those bonuses just because someone wanted to be a different kind of support unit other than triage? Having said all that, I am beginning to believe that Method 1 is the best option, despite the homogenization. You choose your logi's race based on whatever you believe the best piece of equipment to be, but you are still better with every other piece of equipment than the other classes. Since the secondary bonus is not specific, you don't have to feel like you are mis-using your suit's potential for not equipping a specific piece of equipment. Tracking your input here. Also, on a general note just to reiterate clearly all changes are still contingent upon tech evaluation. Method 1 - Requires a check on 4 racial skills Method 2 - Requires stacking of several bonuses on one suit/item Method 3 - Optimal use predicated upon addition of a shield transporter Method 4 - Is a hybrid, see prior methods Both Method 2b & Method 3b fall under their respective primary methods regarding tech. In theory any of them should be viable, but my understanding of the tech side limitations is rudimentary so I could be wrong on any count. Cheers, Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1884	Posted - 2014.10.06 05:35:00 - [736] - Quote I am a fan of method 1, including the 10% reduction to equipment fitting per level, but against the increase in pg/CPU. That puts equipment at the same fitting cost as now, but you also decrease fitting on logistics. Logistics should have an easier time fitting equipment than now, not hae the same tight fittings they do now. I would suggest a 12.5% increase in equipment fottings , along with a 10% reduction per level of logistics, means non-logistics have a tougher time while logistics have an easier time. Listen to my muscle memory Contemplate what I've been clinging to Forty-six and two ahead of me
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4130	Posted - 2014.10.06 14:18:00 - [737] - Quote 2 quick things, Cross: 1) In method 4 the Gallente are listed as having 2 separate bonuses for rep tools. I assume that's a typo. That or I've discovered a Gallente plot to make your logi suit the FoTM again. Sneaky... 2) Either I got confused or you changed the numbering (the former is more likely), but I think method 2b should actually be listed as 1b because method 2 isn't the global bonus. Makes more sense that way. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3121	Posted - 2014.10.06 17:26:00 - [738] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: 2 quick things, Cross: 1) In method 4 the Gallente are listed as having 2 separate bonuses for rep tools. I assume that's a typo. That or I've discovered a Gallente plot to make your logi suit the FoTM again. Sneaky... 2) Either I got confused or you changed the numbering (the former is more likely), but I think method 2b should actually be listed as 1b because method 2 isn't the global bonus. Makes more sense that way. 1) Fixed! Thanks for the heads up. 2) That's the method modification you proposed in this thread. Are the numbers wrong somehow, because I thought I'd simply pasted them directly from your post (but I am operating on just under five hours of sleep so I may be missing something). As to the naming, I'm keeping the current conventions simply because of the chronology tied to when they were introduced as changing it now would alter the context in which a number of posts were made. See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3121	Posted - 2014.10.06 17:27:00 - [739] - Quote General note: The alteration to the logistics role bonus is not a part of any method listed. It is proposed in its own right regardless of the racial method selected. See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3221	Posted - 2014.10.06 17:51:00 - [740] - Quote Mister Goo wrote: Cross, I can get behind method 4, It looks solid and also makes all logi's viable in PC for their reps. I still don't think that RE's are equipment, but Pokey has made some good points about their use. Also leveling out the PG and CPU of each suit is a good idea if they normalize the slot layouts. Honestly I'm not even insistent upon the RE bonus, that's just what personally felt to be the best choice as a replacement bonus. My primary focus is on giving every Logi a bonus to repping, as Cross put, it would be most ideal with the addition of a shield transporter equipment. To explain my point to Logi Bro, the concept for Methods 3 and 4 come straight from EVE, where every Logistics ship has a direct bonus to their tanking type's shield/armor remote remote repper, and then an additional bonus to a Utility Support, which varies based on race. In my opinion, Logistics in general should be hands down the best at providing reps, regardless of race, particularly if we can have proper racial matching with Shield and Armor reps. That being said I think the primary role of Logistics in general should be associated with the reps, but the primary RACIAL role is defined by the primary Utility Support bonus. That's how it works in EVE, and while Dust isn't EVE, I think it's a good example to follow. So, you may not agree, that's fine, just wanted to clarify my logic Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs

Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3122	Posted - 2014.10.06 18:08:00 - [741] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: I'll admit I haven't been following this thread very closely, but I have to say I have a very strong dislike for method 3 and 4. By giving every logi a rep tool bonus, you are saying, "your primary role is to sit behind and rep people, that is your purpose, and you aren't fulfilling your maximum potential if you aren't doing so." It's basically dooming every logistics unit to triage, when that isn't even necessarily their purpose. While I am all for the logistics being more than a medic there are also contextual and mechanical aspects in play when proposing bonus options. In this case the simple mechanics of the gear and bonuses played a non-trivial role in that process. I was far less saying "your primary role is X" than "the most effective/used bonus is X so lets share it" Without further restricting the use of equipment by other classes (something which the fittings alteration would have had an impact on but which has been generally opposed to the point where it has been tentatively tabled as part of the first pass) it is hard to meaningfully buff the other gear in an effective manner. Uplink - Current bonus ends when the merc dies (or suit swaps). Net effect being that mobility is more relevant to meaningful uplink placement/use than the racial buff. Further the second part of the racial buff, increased spawns per link, very rarely comes into play at all, most links are destroyed before they burn through their native 20-25 spawns much less start to make any use of the latter half of the racial buff. Nanohives - Like the uplink the current bonus ends when the merc leaves the suit creating situations where killing the logi reduces the value of hives deployed for his squad. While hives are more often fully consumed than links they are still more consistently destroyed by hostiles or abandoned (if squad is mobile) than fully consumed. Further, "supply amount and repair rate per level" AFAIK actually decreases potential WPs earned by causing the hives to do more while warding the same WP (just like the current mechanics for using high end needles). Active Scans - This racial could me modified to effect other traits as well, such as cooldown, to improve its overall utility so there is some room to grow. That being said the active scanner use case is likely to stay somewhat marginal as long as there are more accurate always on 360 degree passive scans being shared team wide. It is hard for the less accurate, smaller scan area, temporary duration, squad only, scans to compete with that.... especially when you have to put away your weapon to use them. "Aggressive" Equipment - I personally consider mining a road, or setting REs to guard an objective panel valid support actions but use of such things is hardly a primary use case and even providing it as a secondary bonus as proposed in one version of method 3, has met with resistance so the room to grow here is limited. Injectors - These also fall directly into "your role is medic" style thinking, and furthermore with 100% needles already on the market as is there really aren't options to add a racial buff here. That brings us back around once again to the repair tool, part of the reason it is effective and popular is that it is one of the pieces of equipment which does not currently have either A) another role doing its same job better (scanner) or B) another class able to use it to greater or equal effect as the logi (links, hives, needles, REs, Proxy). Although it does still suffer from the common bane of the equipment line which is C) better functioning equipment *reduces* the potential WP earned, this applies frequently to both higher meta gear as well as bonuses to gear. I am, of course, quite open to additional ideas and suggestions. Any any of the methods would be a buff and in that sense an improvement, but in the current context methods 1, 2, 2b all fall prey to the same limitation, that being that they'd increase the use a player can get out of their logi suit if they already run one throughout the battle (so still a buff) but provide only minor added incentive to be in one throughout and it is unlikely those changes would make most logi races considered viable in optimal balance/high level competitive play. Meanwhile methods 3, 3b, 4, rely to one degree or another on inclusion of a shield transporter, focus logi more on reps than is currently true, and include the buff to RE/Proxy use which some have objected to. So every method has shortfalls, but all methods have to cope with the fundamental flaws in the equipment line as a whole, and how it scales WP earnings as well. None of which is to say anyone should abandon their POV, I am simply stating relevant factors the apply to the situation (and as such have fed/will advise) proposals going forward. Cheers, Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3420	Posted - 2014.10.06 18:15:00 - [742] - Quote in order for your proposed equipment changes to work you have to have the gear be universally recognized as the same thing: Which means you have to have a militia uplink = templar uplink = proto uplink as far as the game is concerned. a lot of the uplink spam is caused by suits with 3-4 different classes of uplinks and dropping two of each of them. So it needs to treat ALL uplinks as the same item to prevent that mass spam cluster. Same with hives and any other deployable. otherwise no solution will be had. I like the 1 uplink = 1 spawn idea best.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4131	Posted - 2014.10.06 18:16:00 - [743] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: 2 quick things, Cross: 1) In method 4 the Gallente are listed as having 2 separate bonuses for rep tools. I assume that's a typo. That or I've discovered a Gallente plot to make your logi suit the FoTM again. Sneaky... 2) Either I got confused or you changed the numbering (the former is more likely), but I think method 2b should actually be listed as 1b because method 2 isn't the global bonus. Makes more sense that way. 1) Fixed! Thanks for the heads up. 2) That's the method modification you proposed in this thread. Are the numbers wrong somehow, because I thought I'd simply pasted them directly from your post (but I am operating on just under five hours of sleep so I may be missing something). As to the naming, I'm keeping the current conventions simply because of the chronology tied to when they were introduced as changing it now would alter the context in which a number of posts were made. The most recent iteration I proposed in this thread is correctly listed under "2b" on your revised spreadsheet. However, while neither Method 1 or 2 (2a) exactly matches my orignal proposal (incidentally I have updated that thread to include 2b), Method 1 is closer, as method 2 provides bonuses to only 3 of the 4 major equipment types and is also not a flat bonus across races (e.g., Gallente gets a better bonus to rep tools than Amarr). My point was that since method 2a was not mine, it wouldn't necessarily make sense for my new proposal to be called 2b, and that 1b might be more appropriate. I guess since method 1 is not exaclty what I proposed either, maybe it doesn't matter and I'm just nitpicking. No biggie. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 207	Posted - 2014.10.06 18:20:00 - [744] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: in order for your proposed equipment changes to work you have to have the gear be universally recognized as the same thing: Which means you have to have a militia uplink = templar uplink = proto uplink as far as the game is concerned. a lot of the uplink spam is caused by suits with 3-4 different classes of uplinks and dropping two of each of them. So it needs to treat ALL uplinks as the same item to prevent that mass spam cluster. Same with hives and any other deployable. otherwise no solution will be had. I like the 1 uplink = 1 spawn idea best. Lay off the uplinks, if you nerf uplinks to 1 spawn people might stop using them and then game is over, no more.
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 207	Posted - 2014.10.06 18:22:00 - [745] - Quote Stop balancing around people that spam, theyll find a way to spam no matter what. Unless you come up with a real solution that wont nerf everyone else.
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3122	Posted - 2014.10.06 18:25:00 - [746] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: in order for your proposed equipment changes to work you have to have the gear be universally recognized as the same thing: Which means you have to have a militia uplink = templar uplink = proto uplink as far as the game is concerned. a lot of the uplink spam is caused by suits with 3-4 different classes of uplinks and dropping two of each of them. So it needs to treat ALL uplinks as the same item to prevent that mass spam cluster. Same with hives and any other deployable. otherwise no solution will be had. I like the 1 uplink = 1 spawn idea best. I disagree. Granted it is a matter of degrees certainly but it is not an all or nothing proposition. There are things (some of them suggested in the proposal) which can moderate the number of deployed assets on the field, and how long they are present, and how likely players are to focus on deploying them, without hard coding a limit on deployables as you describe. The other aspect worth noting is that hard coding a limit as you've outlined would do nothing to improve the logistics use case for any of those items or limit the use case of those items for roles outside of logistics which is a net soft nerf to the value of multiple equipment slots (yes a slight one, but still a further constraint in a situation where logistics suits are already underperforming their role). Regarding the 1 link = 1 spawn method. Conceptually this is what I supported initially as well, however there were some technical/resource management issues brought to light when I presented the idea to CCP for tech eval which was a key reason the spawns per link were pushed up to 5. 0.02 ISK Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4132	Posted - 2014.10.06 18:28:00 - [747] - Quote ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Stop balancing around people that spam, theyll find a way to spam no matter what. Unless you come up with a real solution that wont nerf everyone else. I agree in that I despise the proposed "spawn grenade" mechanic, but some steps should probably be taken, at the very least to try and restrict use to logi's. Spam is a tough one to tackle via hotifx, unfortunately. (If you could just get people off the "spam=lag" bandwagon that might be helpful, that longstanding misperception drives a lot of displaced logi hate.) (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3122	Posted - 2014.10.06 18:40:00 - [748] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Cross Atu wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: 2 quick things, Cross: 1) In method 4 the Gallente are listed as having 2 separate bonuses for rep tools. I assume that's a typo. That or I've discovered a Gallente plot to make your logi suit the FoTM again. Sneaky... 2) Either I got confused or you changed the numbering (the former is more likely), but I think method 2b should actually be listed as 1b because method 2 isn't the global bonus. Makes more sense that way. 1) Fixed! Thanks for the heads up. 2) That's the method modification you proposed in this thread. Are the numbers wrong somehow, because I thought I'd simply pasted them directly from your post (but I am operating on just under five hours of sleep so I may be missing something). As to the naming, I'm keeping the current conventions simply because of the chronology tied to when they were introduced as changing it now would alter the context in which a number of posts were made. The most recent iteration I proposed in this thread is correctly listed under "2b" on your revised spreadsheet. (EDIT: Scratch that. On further review of 2b on your spreadsheet the Caldari have the scanner bonus listed twice instead of the bonus to rep tool range. Otherwise looks OK.) However, while neither Method 1 or 2 (2a) exactly matches my orignal proposal (incidentally I have updated that thread to include 2b), Method 1 is closer, as method 2 provides bonuses to only 3 of the 4 major equipment types and is also not a flat bonus across races (e.g., Gallente gets a better bonus to rep tools than Amarr). My point was that since method 2a was not mine, it wouldn't necessarily make sense for my new proposal to be called 2b, and that 1b might be more appropriate. I guess since method 1 is not exaclty what I proposed either, maybe it doesn't matter and I'm just nitpicking. No biggie. Good catch, now fixed! Also, I see what you mean, I wasn't considering the baseline of your other thread/linked proposal. I'll keep the nomenclature the same for now but bear it in mind if a full iteration 3 document is called for. Thanks for all your input here o7 Cheers, Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3122	Posted - 2014.10.06 18:45:00 - [749] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: (If you could just get people off the "spam=lag" bandwagon that might be helpful, that longstanding misperception drives a lot of displaced logi hate.) Totally agreed and as such I will reiterate here yet again, just so it is in another place on the forums, that I have actively tested the notion that deployed equipment creates substantive lag and have been unable to reproduce the effect during my tests. Further I have encountered my most sever cases of lag (in Pubs/FW) during games with hardly any (or even no) equipment present on field prior to/during the onset of lag. In PC matches I have encountered intense lag in situations both with and without substantial deployed equipment present and have seen no meaningful trend or corollary within that context. It could be that for some reason my particular playstation 3 is just immune to the purported lag caused by deployed equipment, but that is highly implausible. 0.02 ISK Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1890	Posted - 2014.10.06 18:46:00 - [750] - Quote So now that we are solidifying some ideas, we need to get some input from a dev once a complete (notionally) set of proposals is made. 37 pages of discussion, we should have some pretty solid ideas, and judging from the spreadsheets Cross and others have worked so hard on, I think we need to hear what Rattati thinks of these ideas. Listen to my muscle memory Contemplate what I've been clinging to Forty-six and two ahead of me



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