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Logi Bro
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
3362
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Posted - 2014.09.30 16:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
I may be a little late to the discussion, but I figure I'll throw this out regardless.
Experience: Minmatar Logistics since E3 build
I think the failing with logistics suits is that they have become too specialized. This has been discussed by others before, but what are Caldari and Amarr logi's supposed to do after they throw down their deploy-able equipment? What is a Minmatar logi supposed to do when the heavy he was repping dies? What is a Gallente logi supposed to do if he has no squad to give intel to?
In the game's current state, the answer to all these questions is either stay to fight, and die doing so because you are using the least combat efficient suit in the game, or run away. Logistics has no secondary function.
Assaults have a little bit of everything despite the fact their primary purpose is combat, scouts have extra equipment slots despite the fact that their primary purpose is intel, sentinels have massive firepower despite the fact that their primary purpose is tanking, and commandos have a relatively high eHP pool + equipment despite the fact that their primary purpose is massive firepower.
Logistics have what other than their equipment? A slightly better scan precision than assaults? A slightly better eHP pool than scouts? Better speed than sentinels? More grenades than commandos? It used to be that they had the best customization because they had the most module slots, but now assaults have been buffed and invalidate that perk.
I think that to make logistics better you need to capitalize on one thing in particular and buff it. You could make them the second best EWAR suit and buff their precision/profile. You could buff their speed. You could buff their health. (but if it were a significant buff it should probably come at the cost of speed) They are already good at their primary role, they just need another thing on the side.
SP Sinks? Fixed.
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Logi Bro
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
3365
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Posted - 2014.10.01 23:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
After looking at your spreadsheet, I see nothing that would in any way overpower the class, but there are a few things I disagree with.
While I understand your logic behind giving Minmatar/Caldari a shield transporter bonus if it were implemented, it makes no real sense why the Amarr would have a bonus to Minmatar equipment while the Minmatar themselves have no bonus to their own equipment. I think that Method 3 is really a no-go.
Method 1, as many other people have said, really reeks of homogenization.
Method 2 is definitely my favorite, but the Tertiary bonuses in Method 2 don't make sense to me. They are all bonuses to the equipment of the primary enemy of the logi's race. The Amarr, lore-wise, wouldn't want a bonus to Minmatar equipment, so on and so forth. The tertiary bonus should be the ally of the enemy's equipment, for example, a bonus to nanohives for the Minmatar, a bonus to scanners for the Amarr, a bonus to uplinks for the Gallente, and a bonus to the rep tool for the Caldari.
Those were just my personal opinion disagreements, but now I'd like to point out a few math discrepancies.
I have to point out that if you decrease remote explosive damage by 25%, you will need to make the logi bonus give a 33.33% increase in order to keep the damage the same. Alternatively, you could decrease the remote damage by 20%, and the 25% logi increase will keep it at where it is currently.
The amounts of eHP each logi is getting is the same, 30 in one stat and 50 in another for a total of 80 for each logi, and that's all well and good, but you have to consider that the Amarr logi has the most eHP, and should get the biggest increase, while the Minmatar should get a smaller increase to give the same percentages.
If we use the Caldari and Gallente as the template, they are getting a ~28% increase to their dominant stat and a ~33% increase to their recessive stat. So applying that to the Amarr and Minmatar, the Amarr should get +28% to their armor, which would make it +60 armor instead of +50(not a big difference, but CCP has specifically set up health to speed ratios, and you have to increase by percentages rather than set amounts if you want to keep the ratios the same) and the Minmatar would get +40 armor instead of +50.
But having said all that, I'm really just nitpicking, it's a solid proposal.
SP Sinks? Fixed.
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Logi Bro
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
3368
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Posted - 2014.10.05 21:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
I'll admit I haven't been following this thread very closely, but I have to say I have a very strong dislike for method 3 and 4.
By giving every logi a rep tool bonus, you are saying, "your primary role is to sit behind and rep people, that is your purpose, and you aren't fulfilling your maximum potential if you aren't doing so." It's basically dooming every logistics unit to triage, when that isn't even necessarily their purpose.
It's like saying every square is a rectangle, but not every rectangle is a square. The purpose of logistics is support, and just because triage is a support function, that does not mean every support function is triage. I can slap REs, an active scanner, and a nanohive on my logi and I would still be a tried and true dedicated support logi, but it's not like I'm doing any sort of triage.
You might say, "just because you have the bonus, doesn't mean you have to use it," but I would then respond by saying that is faulty logic. If you are trying to buff the class by giving it more bonuses, why would you then advocate for not using those bonuses just because someone wanted to be a different kind of support unit other than triage?
Having said all that, I am beginning to believe that Method 1 is the best option, despite the homogenization. You choose your logi's race based on whatever you believe the best piece of equipment to be, but you are still better with every other piece of equipment than the other classes. Since the secondary bonus is not specific, you don't have to feel like you are mis-using your suit's potential for not equipping a specific piece of equipment.
SP Sinks? Fixed.
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