take a look at the slot layout thread - stickied

Links or it didn't happen.

* Reduce Sentinel PG/CPU. Possibly a fitting bonus to Heavy Weapons.

All,

After crowdsourcing, data crunching, reviewing internally and discussing with the CPM, we are ready with a non-finite list for Hotfix Charlie. As always, this is the narrative and any, all or none of the ideas may end up being implemented.

Hotfix Charlie
* Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, slight changes in slot layout and improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. Possibly a slight speed increase.

* A slight HMG heat buildup increase

* Reduce Sentinel PG/CPU. Possibly a fitting bonus to Heavy Weapons.

* Installation buff, with a range and AI range reduction, reduction of granted WP for destruction.

* Blaster turret accuracy improvements, both Small and Large

* Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a low radius strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability.

* Minmatar will be improved by a Codebreaker fitting reduction, possibly KinCats as well. Possibly moving Codebreakers to High slot. PG increase.

* Nova Knife hit detection and damage improvement

* Reduced small rail range compared to sniper range

* Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier.

* WP for injectors, STD/ADV/PRO 25/50/75 WP

* Reactive Plates to 1-2-3 hp/s

* OB WP doubled

* LP payout increased x-fold

* Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS

* Reduced ADS ISK price

Still under tech evaluation
* Disabling passive Scan sharing with squads
* Suicide/Bleedout/Overview option properly enforces that revival is not possible
* We have identified almost all the suits that have the wrong colors and are trying to get those fixed.
* Reduce ISK cost of early skillbooks for new players or free

Bugs/issues that need Client update
Pilot stacking bug
Unfair fall damage calculation
Unfair War points and distribution from OB kills
Directional arrow for enemies on minimap bug

Hotfix Delta or later
*Sidearm rebalance
*Sniper Rifle review
*Efficacy bonuses
*Further slot based PG/CPU updates based on necessity

A PROPOSAL
I know that CCP must have data or ideas that justify certain setups. I am also pleased that there has been a move to rectify many subjects to create an evolving game that achieves a greater balance and immersion.


My beef is with the MED Frame inequalities (LOGI and ASSAULT). There is a tension between the two because there is a lack of definition with the ASSAULT type MED frame. The LOGI is well defined and remains unique and is in a good place that will be better with the proper slot adjustments. The difficulty in CCPGÇÖs position is that it has yet to make the ASSAULT Frames the defining go to suits. IGÇÖm sure that if IGÇÖm not outright just stealing the idea by not crediting authors it is only that I agree with your positions and wanted to emphasize them again, but I offer this suggestion that I like.

Defining the MED Frames
The SLOT ADJUSTMENT is a good start, but too little to move the ASSAULTS to where they will be a dominating force. It hardly seems logical that a LOGI is the same ASSAULT suit that sacrifices base stats (EHP, potential, speed, shield recharge, stamina and recharge, etc.) and their side arm (mostly) then gets to carry all this great equipment AND have more high(H) and low(L) slots.

The ASSAULT will only stand out when there is a defining difference between the two frames that makes the choice for a slayer obvious and the choice for a support role obvious.

Make the ASSAULTs mean.
THE H/L SLOT LAYOUT of each MED FRAME equal to each other or higher for ASSAULTS.
THE CPU/PG is EQUAL or higher for LOGIS but each can fit all Proto MODS and Proto GEAR (LOGI EQ and ASSAULT LW, SA)
Keep the LOGI stats as they are now.
ASSAULT stats as they are now, but more HP as planned.

First the LOGI
A LOGIGÇÖs power in MODules and EQuipment
Here the slot counts are all Equal to 8, 10, 12. BUT not all should be the same GÇô keeping a little flavor with the equipment bearers is cool. (and I support the Logi bonus changes)

UNIQUE Logis GÇô (3EQ, Side Arm, Module Focus)
AMARR
SIDE ARM (Best Choice GÇô Unique)ORMODULE Focused (IFF Bonuses Change)
S- 2H/3L/2E + Side Arm S- 3H/3L/2E
A- 2H/4L/3E + Side Arm A- 3H/4L/3E
P- 3H/5L/3E + Side Arm P- 4H/5L/3E

CALDARI
SIDE ARM (Equality - another SA option)ORMODULE Focused (Unique)
S- 3H/2L/2E + Side Arm S- 3H/3L/2E
A- 4H/2L/3E + Side Arm A- 4H/3L/3E
P- 5H/3L/3E + Side Arm P- 5H/4L/3E

EQ SPECIFIC Logis GÇô (4EQ)
GALLENTE
S- 2H/3L/3E
A- 2H/3L/3E
P- 3H/5L/4E

MINMATAR
S- 2H/2L/3E
A- 3H/3L/3E
P- 4H/4L/4E

Delivers Logis with equal slot counts (side arm = 1 EQ) Keeps them equal in tier movements.

ASSAULTS: Capable of being the most unique and powerful force out there. Lets make them that way.
AMARR
EQUAL to logi ORBETTER - Logi loses 1EQ for SA
S- 2H/3L/1E + Side Arm S- 3H/3L/1E + Side Arm
A- 2H/4L/1E + Side Arm A- 3H/4L/1E + Side Arm
P- 3H/5L/1E + Side Arm P- 4H/5L/1E + Side Arm

CALDARI
EQUAL to logi ORBETTER - Logi loses 1EQ for SA
S- 3H/2L/1E + Side Arm S- 3H/3L/1E + Side Arm
A- 4H/2L/1E + Side Arm A- 4H/3L/1E + Side Arm
P- 5H/3L/1E + Side Arm P- 5H/4L/1E + Side Arm

GALLENTE
EQUAL to logi ORBETTER - Logi loses 1H for 4thEQ
S- 2H/3L/1E + Side Arm S- 3H/3L/1E + Side Arm
A- 2H/4L/1E + Side Arm A- 3H/4L/1E + Side Arm
P- 3H/5L/1E + Side Arm P- 4H/5L/1E + Side Arm

MINMATAR
EQUAL to logi ORBETTER Focus - Logi loses 1H for 4thEQ
S- 2H/2L/1E + Side Arm S- 3H/3L/1E + Side Arm
A- 3H/3L/1E + Side Arm A- 4H/3L/1E + Side Arm
P- 4H/4L/1E + Side Arm P- 5H/4L/1E + Side Arm

IN this way The COST of not being an ASSAULT is always less modules.
Logis gain equipment but loses stat and 1 module.
Scouts gain speed and equipment but lose stats and modules.
Commandos gain HP and another LW but lose grenades and modules.
Heavies gain HW and HP but lose modules.

ASSAULTs will be the Maximum warriors even if their bonuses are not all that people may want. The modules and better stats make them awesome regardless.

It makes the ASSAULTs versatile for battle and they may even give every class a run for their money as they will be the new Logi Slayer or Brick Scout that can suddenly do everything better than every other class (with the right module)GǪ but isnGÇÖt that what the ASSAULTs were meant to do? WerenGÇÖt the other classes supposed to sacrifice to take on another role? Not all roles are equal, but balance does not mean equality.

IGÇÖll work on some CPU/PG Calculations tomorrow to try to find that sweet spot where the MED frames can have the same CPU/PG and what percentages their Bonuses need to be at in order to accommodate such a move.

ThatGÇÖs all I got for now.

You're an idiot.
Logis have about 30 more eHP than their scout counterparts yet are slower than the more heavily tanked assaults.

And you want to screw logistics over even more?

If logistics had higher eHP than assaults or higher speed/regen then you wouldn't seem like such a moron.

It takes 5 module slots minimal for a logistics to equal an assaults base stats,the problem isn't slots the problem is equipment.

The only reason "slayer logistics" was/is a problem is because of our ability to carry gear and support.

Assaults want to kill and support,which is why most "slayers" moved to scouts.

CCP needs to herd these players into the mindset of kill -or- support, not kill -and- support.

Logis are not meant to be equal to assaults.
The role of the logistics class is to specialize in equipment. For that we pay price.
If Logistics had Higher HP or Regen than assaults we would again be the Slayer Logis.
Slayer Logi's were an issue when the bonuses offered supreme protection and out doing all the classes in their roles.
Slayers moving to scouts is another signal that the Assault class is broken.

Your last point I agree with.
I am moving to make that a reality by defining the roles.

You and I just have separate views on how to accomplish that. - I don't see buffing logis to be the best as solving the issue.

Every comment i read, it is : more hp,more hp, give us more hp!



You want hp? Go for heavy. Your logis already have 800+ehp, assaults needs bonuses,regen not again HP.

If you need heavys hp to med frame, youre bad.

My logi does not roll with 800+ ehp & I suspect many others do not either. Have you ever tried to keep up with a heavy when you are plated upto the eyeballs ?

Ferroscale...
If you're getting still getting shot up too quickly you're using the wrong logistics suit.
Each suit has a stat tendency for different situations.

Logis are meant to be equal with assaults,just not at assaulting.

logistics isn't just some pee yellow suit made of garbage and tape (except for maybe the minmatar one :p)

logistics is the master support,not the assaults re.tarded cousin.

Assaults are (supposed) to be the master combat suit.


RedBleach is a Genius


logistics deserves a buff,to either eHP or speed/regeneration.

logistics isn't second class and shouldn't be treated as such.

You're an idiot.
(Followed by a lot more drivel. And another post with even more)

A PROPOSAL
I know that CCP must have data or ideas that justify certain setups. I am also pleased that there has been a move to rectify many subjects to create an evolving game that achieves a greater balance and immersion.


My beef is with the MED Frame inequalities (LOGI and ASSAULT). There is a tension between the two because there is a lack of definition with the ASSAULT type MED frame. The LOGI is well defined and remains unique and is in a good place that will be better with the proper slot adjustments. The difficulty in CCPGÇÖs position is that it has yet to make the ASSAULT Frames the defining go to suits. IGÇÖm sure that if IGÇÖm not outright just stealing the idea by not crediting authors it is only that I agree with your positions and wanted to emphasize them again, but I offer this suggestion that I like.

Defining the MED Frames
The SLOT ADJUSTMENT is a good start, but too little to move the ASSAULTS to where they will be a dominating force. It hardly seems logical that a LOGI is the same ASSAULT suit that sacrifices base stats (EHP, potential, speed, shield recharge, stamina and recharge, etc.) and their side arm (mostly) then gets to carry all this great equipment AND have more high(H) and low(L) slots.

The ASSAULT will only stand out when there is a defining difference between the two frames that makes the choice for a slayer obvious and the choice for a support role obvious.

Make the ASSAULTs mean.
THE H/L SLOT LAYOUT of each MED FRAME equal to each other or higher for ASSAULTS.
THE CPU/PG is EQUAL or higher for LOGIS but each can fit all Proto MODS and Proto GEAR (LOGI EQ and ASSAULT LW, SA)
Keep the LOGI stats as they are now.
ASSAULT stats as they are now, but more HP as planned.

First the LOGI
A LOGIGÇÖs power in MODules and EQuipment
Here the slot counts are all Equal to 8, 10, 12. BUT not all should be the same GÇô keeping a little flavor with the equipment bearers is cool. (and I support the Logi bonus changes)

UNIQUE Logis GÇô (3EQ, Side Arm, Module Focus)
AMARR
SIDE ARM (Best Choice GÇô Unique)..........ORMODULE Focused (IFF Bonuses Change)
S- 2H/3L/2E + Side Arm................................S- 3H/3L/2E
A- 2H/4L/3E + Side Arm ................................A- 3H/4L/3E
P- 3H/5L/3E + Side Arm.................................P- 4H/5L/3E

CALDARI
SIDE ARM (Equality - another SA option)......ORMODULE Focused (Unique)
S- 3H/2L/2E + Side Arm ....................................S- 3H/3L/2E
A- 4H/2L/3E + Side Arm .....................................A- 4H/3L/3E
P- 5H/3L/3E + Side Arm .....................................P- 5H/4L/3E

EQ SPECIFIC Logis GÇô (4EQ)
GALLENTE
S- 2H/3L/3E
A- 2H/3L/3E
P- 3H/5L/4E

MINMATAR
S- 2H/2L/3E
A- 3H/3L/3E
P- 4H/4L/4E

Delivers Logis with equal slot counts (side arm = 1 EQ) Keeps them equal in tier movements.

ASSAULTS: Capable of being the most unique and powerful force out there. Lets make them that way.
AMARR
EQUAL to logi........................ORBETTER - Logi loses 1EQ for SA
S- 2H/3L/1E + Side Arm.............S- 3H/3L/1E + Side Arm
A- 2H/4L/1E + Side Arm.............A- 3H/4L/1E + Side Arm
P- 3H/5L/1E + Side Arm.............P- 4H/5L/1E + Side Arm

CALDARI
EQUAL to log.........................ORBETTER - Logi loses 1EQ for SA
S- 3H/2L/1E + Side Arm.............S- 3H/3L/1E + Side Arm
A- 4H/2L/1E + Side Arm..............A- 4H/3L/1E + Side Arm
P- 5H/3L/1E + Side Arm..............P- 5H/4L/1E + Side Arm

GALLENTE
EQUAL to logi........................ORBETTER - Logi loses 1H for 4thEQ
S- 2H/3L/1E + Side Arm.............S- 3H/3L/1E + Side Arm
A- 2H/4L/1E + Side Arm.............A- 3H/4L/1E + Side Arm
P- 3H/5L/1E + Side Arm.............P- 4H/5L/1E + Side Arm

MINMATAR
EQUAL to logi........................ORBETTER Focus - Logi loses 1H for 4thEQ
S- 2H/2L/1E + Side Arm.............S- 3H/3L/1E + Side Arm
A- 3H/3L/1E + Side Arm.............A- 4H/3L/1E + Side Arm
P- 4H/4L/1E + Side Arm.............P- 5H/4L/1E + Side Arm

IN this way The COST of not being an ASSAULT is always less modules.
Logis gain equipment but loses stat and 1 module.
Scouts gain speed and equipment but lose stats and modules.
Commandos gain HP and another LW but lose grenades and modules.
Heavies gain HW and HP but lose modules.

ASSAULTs will be the Maximum warriors even if their bonuses are not all that people may want. The modules and better stats make them awesome regardless.

It makes the ASSAULTs versatile for battle and they may even give every class a run for their money as they will be the new Logi Slayer or Brick Scout that can suddenly do everything better than every other class (with the right module)GǪ but isnGÇÖt that what the ASSAULTs were meant to do? WerenGÇÖt the other classes supposed to sacrifice to take on another role? Not all roles are equal, but balance does not mean equality.

IGÇÖll work on some CPU/PG Calculations tomorrow to try to find that sweet spot where the MED frames can have the same CPU/PG and what percentages their Bonuses need to be at in order to accommodate such a move.

ThatGÇÖs all I got for now.

Every single FPS game that I have played has a vehicle free TDM. I see no reason why DUST 514 should not have it. I am fine with vehicles moving to Dom and Skirm because they are objective based.

[quote=CCP Rattati]All,

After crowdsourcing, data crunching, reviewing internally and discussing with the CPM, we are ready with a non-finite list for Hotfix Charlie. As always, this is the narrative and any, all or none of the ideas may end up being implemented.

Hotfix Charlie
*

* Installation buff, with a range and AI review, reduction of granted WP for destruction.



* Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS]


Thank you for the communication Rattati.


The buff of the installation is good. Even making them indestructible before hacking is better (there shouldn't be a lot of risk free WPs as it hurts the game). A turret isn't a threat until it is in play but reducing the WP for destruction is counter productive. If installations were to be a leverage-able asset just like supply depots this hot fix could be a game changer.

Removing vehicles from OMS (assuming installations will still exist in OMS) will completely change the dynamic of OMS. The counter to strong installations is WP for destruction and/or the LAV/HAV. Ambush OMS could end up being a mode between Ambush and Skirmish. Instead of just running around in packs killing other mercs some thought would have be given to dealing with the installations as well. I think that would make things interesting!

Maintaining an installation also needs to be given some thought as well. Even if these things have increased health a proto forge gun or PLC is going to make short work of them. There needs to be an effective way to restore the health of the installation. Thoughts anyone?

You are right that Logistics is not a second class suit. But it must also pay a price to carry the equipment it does. If it and the assaults were the same, but the logi could also carry all that equipment there would be no need for an assault. There is a price for specialization into equipment - you either get it or you dont.


It really sounds like you just need to be heard and feel justified in you opinions. Very Well:
Are LOGIs too squishy? Yes. Do they need a buff? Yes. But none of that is what I was addressing, I was addressing slot adjustments.


I have been a logi since the begining. Yes, so long ago... since the beginning before the open beta.
Who Respects Logis? I do - dedicated alot of time to writing a guide for beginning logis.
Who respecs to Logi? I did, every time the option was available.
Who still plays logi? I do.

And I still think The slot adjustments will further define the roles and with a little buff later in the HP/Regen/Protection department maybe we can have a solid defense one day too like the other MED FRAME. This is still a FPS and logis must still be a viable choice for attacking as well has equipment handling/support.

i think it would be best to give us the option o not being forced to equip a weapon, what could it possible hurt to give us an option to not have a weapon

i think it would be best to give us the option o not being forced to equip a weapon, what could it possible hurt to give us an option to not have a weapon

KEEP AMBUSH OMS but remove vehicles and or make it its own option in battle finder.

If OB WP x2 means from 2500 to 5000 i think it should stay at 2500

And i think the WP for injectors should stay the same so that there is a reason for low level medics to want to heal you

Thats bad. Why making av and veh users unable to play game mode?
Maybe remove infiantry? You see how stupid it sounds?

Thats just stupid. I know people who have 25m + sp just in tanks, and they wouldnt play ambush only because noobs like you never tries to fihtg them back?...

PS. forgot to mention AV guys, but these real who have seriously invested sp into it.

* Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS

Edited OP