For Rattati: I know earlier you mentioned a speed buff for minmitar scouts, and i was interested in knowing whether or not this would actually happen.

Thanks!

With no ewar bonuses, MinScout speed advantage needs to be more significant than it is currently.

All,
* Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a low radius strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability.

* Disabling passive Scan sharing with squads

* OB WP doubled

I'll tell you what you can do with it... (Hehehe. You asked.)

One sidearm = one equipment... Done.

Correct proto Amarr high/low slots to 5/3 or 3/5 (don't care which)... Done.

Fix Amarr uplink bonus ending on death flaw. As long as you stay in an Amarr suit, your racial bonus should continue... Done.

Not sure what all the hassle is. Git 'er dun!


PS - Anti-slayer Logi prevention: lower Logi CPU/PG levels 10% and give a bonus of 10% IFF all the equipment slots are filled.


PPS - Assault un-neutering program: lower Assault CPU/PG levels 10% and give a bonus of 10% IFF all the high and low slots are filled.


PPPS - Scout re-leveling initiative: lower Scout CPU/PG levels 10% and give a bonus of 10% IFF a cloak and (at least) one ewar module are used. (Also, remove inherent armour repair from Gallente.)

2) Gallente are supposed to be based on Armor regen. 3 might be too high, but you can't take it completely away.

Sounds good to me, with the exception of the underlined sections. Here's why, in reverse order:
1) Amarr suits should have more low slots than high, so 3/5.

2) Gallente are supposed to be based on Armor regen. 3 might be too high, but you can't take it completely away.

3) You've oversimplified the maths on the anti-killer bee part:

- Requiring all the equip slots to be filled sounds good but is less effective than you think; compact hives are great for slayers and use minimal fitting resources. That said, I've pushed the idea for close to a year now, so I don't disagree with it, just realize that the true impact will be fairly small.

- Dropping the CPU/PG by 10% and increase the fitting bonus by 10% is actually a big time nerf. Not all the CPU/PG of the suit is used up by equipment, so the math is never this easy:

To repeat an example I've used a few times, picture a suit with 300 CPU. Typically 200 would be used for modules/weapon, and 100 probably for equipment (this information is based on the low-equipment Amarr logi and basically comes from my arse; it may not be completely accurate but gets the point across). If you were to drop the suit CPU by 10% and increase the fit bonus by 10%, you lose 30 CPU total but only save 10 CPU from the new bonus.

It becomes complicated in that, since not all the suits have the same amount of equipment slots, you can't easily determine what the best combination of fitting power reduction and fitting bonus increase would be (this is basically why CCP wants to equalize the slot counts and take away the Amarr sidearm, to make this kind of balance proposition easier).

What you need to do is make a large sample of multiple fittings from each race, and determine the ratio of CPU/PG total vs that devoted to equipment. Averaging that ratio you can then say, well, if we are going to decrease the total by 10%, we need to increase the fitting bonus by x, which, using my above example, would be 30% since the ratio is 3:1. Hopefully they would choose to overshoot the bonus.

PS - Anti-slayer Logi prevention: lower Logi CPU/PG levels 10% and give a bonus of 10% IFF all the equipment slots are filled.

How about focusing on buffing the assault class before doing any further damage to logistics? if you are downgrading logistics based off of logi slayers then you need to stop living in the past. There really has not been an abundance of logi slayers since post 1.7 or even better since post 1.6. Read the LogiBro guide before jumping the gun.

Okay lets not get ahead of ourselves....... they aren't based on it....they are just pretty good at it. It's simplifying things too much to suggest that this defines them...... they are armour tankers that use Blasters and have some pretty good drone ships.... but at its core they are just armour tankers.

Okay...

1) Amarr gets 3/5 plus 3 equip plus sidearm. Sold!

2) Gallente are alpha-armour tankers with lots of lows to fit repair mods... They don't need inherent repair. Add bonus to repair mods if needed.

3) Maths... Reduce total CPU/PG 10% and increase equipment bonus by 30% (or 25%, whatever works).

All fixed. I don't see why this stuff is so difficult for folks...

Just my thoughts on the ADS price drop.

Bad idea. Very bad idea, they are already swarming pub matches, yesterday a few matches had at least 6 in the air, some ADS, others regular DS'
The difference was that the ADS' simply dominated everything, ran into enemy red line, and out again unimpeded. Which ever team gets two or three of those in the air first, wins by default 90% of the time.

Let's remove the injectors all together then

Just my thoughts on the ADS price drop.

Bad idea. Very bad idea, they are already swarming pub matches, yesterday a few matches had at least 6 in the air, some ADS, others regular DS'
The difference was that the ADS' simply dominated everything, ran into enemy red line, and out again unimpeded. Which ever team gets two or three of those in the air first, wins by default 90% of the time.

Exactly. An ADS is a license to farm kills. It effortlessly wrecks infantry and vehicles alike, and has no counters... except another DS. The ONLY limiting factor is the price. Remove that and I see most games being decided by ADS spam. Infantry would do best to stay in the MCC or not spawn at all so they at least don't hurt the clone count.

Disagree. I am not a vehicle user at all.

While yes, it does take a bit of time to reach the skillpoints necessary, my ADV Commando suit with my proto Swarmers keeps ADS/DS pilots at bay. It demolishes DS but only keeps ADS away. I got a combat rifle on there to save me against other infantry (tho infantry still kill me the most often) and a nanohive to keep my Swarmer filled. I most never kill an ADS but I get 75 points for damage repeatedly and constantly keep that guy running so he can't do his job.

His fit is 400,000 isk. Mine suit is 78,000 isk.

Do I think its fair I can't kill him? You bet.

Now, the argument here is, "well what if I don't have proto-QQ here". I feel you. I really do, but that is not the fault of the tool or the vehicle. It is the fault of a **** poor player base due to poor game management so we can't properly separate our players based on skill.

In a perfect world, your militia swarmers wouldn't have to be against triple stacked vehicles with proto skills. But that is not a reason to try and deny price decrease to a whole class.

The counter to one ADS are two forgegunners.

Knew it wouldn't be long before someone wheeled out the famous 'SPKR4THEDEAD argument'...

I don't know what you're referring to, but seriously, two forgegunners counters one ADS pretty well.

SPKR is an infamously bad tanker and defender of 1.7 tanks. His favourite argument is/was 'it should take 2/3/4/16 infantry to counter my vehicle because I'm a special pony and I deserve Godmode'. For obvious reasons this 'argument' went out of fashion, until now it seems...

I wasn't saying that it should take 2 forgegunners to counter an ADS, I was just stating how it is, and the reason I did so was because you previously stated that there are zero counters to an ADS besides another ADS.

Exactly. An ADS is a license to farm kills. It effortlessly wrecks infantry and vehicles alike, and has no counters... except another DS. The ONLY limiting factor is the price. Remove that and I see most games being decided by ADS spam. Infantry would do best to stay in the MCC or not spawn at all so they at least don't hurt the clone count.

Was fixing the racial suit slot layouts addressed?

Amarr - Most low slots
Gallente - High number of low slots
Caldari - Most high slots
Minmatar - Even to 1 more high slot than low

For example
Assault's lots layout: Highs/Lows - (Previous layout)
Amarr - 2H 5L - (3H 4L)
Gallente - 2H 5L OR 3H 4L - (Same)/-
Caldari - 5H 2L - (4H 3L)
Minmatar - 4H 3L - (5H 2L)

Logistics' slots layout: Highs/Lows/Equipment/Sidearm - (Previous layout)
Amarr - 3H 5L 3E 1S - (Same)
Gallente - 3H 5L 4E 0S - (Same)
Caldari - 5H 3L 4E 0S - (5H 4L 4E 0S)
Minmatar - 4H 4L 4E 0S - (Same)

Sentinel's lots layout: Highs/Lows - (Previous layout)
Amarr - 1H 4L (2H 3L)
Gallente - 1H 4L OR 2H 3L - (Same)/-
Caldari - 3H 1L - (Same)
Minmatar - 3H 2L - (Same)

take a look at the slot layout thread - stickied