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Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2460	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:38:00 - [1] - Quote Dear CCP and the Community of Dust 514, I would like it the made publicly and clearly known that the CPM does not support the ability to fire a weapon while cloaked. If you support this (and even if you don't) I encourage you to post your thoughts so that CCP can hear our voices and change the course away from what would be a game-breaking mechanic. The devil is always in the details, but I think we can all agree that firing while cloaking is a line in the sand that CCP must not cross. /signed Kain Spero of CPM 0 Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 1976	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:40:00 - [2] - Quote I'll sign on if you can't drop/use equipment while cloaked. A-Teams win Battles B-Teams win Campaigns C-Teams win Wars
jerrmy12 kahoalii The Phoenix Federation 296	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:41:00 - [3] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Dear CCP and the Community of Dust 514, I would like it the made publicly and clearly known that the CPM does not support the ability to fire a weapon while cloaked. If you support this (and even if you don't) I encourage you to post your thoughts so that CCP can hear our voices and change the course away from what would be a game-breaking mechanic. The devil is always in the details, but I think we can all agree that firing while cloaking is a line in the sand that CCP must not cross. /signed Kain Spero of CPM 0 Wat bout the ScP? I use a tablet so beware of typos
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1367	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:46:00 - [4] - Quote It's difficult to pass judgment when no hard numbers are available on cooldown, duration, fire cost, ect. The system sounds similar to Killzone 3 which I actually rather liked, however this is not the same as cloaks are in EVE. For those of you who don't know, most cloaks in EVE operate like this: Movement Speed Reduced by 90% Unable to use any weapons or modules while cloaked Any ship within 2500m will decloak your ship There is a delay after you decloak before you can lock on and use modules. Perhaps add more limitations to the proposed cloaking, such as a movement penalty and excessive cooldown time. Then offer a variant (Covert-Ops?) which does not include movement penalty and a shorter cooldown, but you are unable to fire your weapon until x-seconds after decloaking? The first would benefit snipers and those who need to stay hidden for long periods of time without moving. The latter would benefit those who want to play more of a field support role, but not a combat one. ADS Reports - Defining Racial Themes
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER TeamPlayers 2600	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:47:00 - [5] - Quote if u are cloaked, u are just that... in stealth mode. being able to do anything aside from moving behind enemy lines undetected will simply cause headaches and issues that can be avoided by actually listening to people now should be just like an active scanner. Personally it should be an innate skill only in scouts, and I could even get on board with it being a part of the suit, not taking up a slot. same rules as a scanner.. has a cooldown period, and you can do nothing except run and jump (and climb) while its activated. Common Sense and *Logic* are 2 things you have to forget when posting on these forums.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1367	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:49:00 - [6] - Quote I do have a very important question that I haven't seen asked already: I assume Active Scanners can detect cloaked enemies, however does the cloak lower signature profile at all? ADS Reports - Defining Racial Themes
Arx Ardashir Imperium Aeternum 346	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:49:00 - [7] - Quote Do you mean that you'd have to manually deactivate it before you could fire, or that the first shot would deactivate it? Based on what CCP Saberwing said here, a sniper shot would immediately deactivate the cloak. He also said that the cloak would be timed, and runs out when it's "energy" is depleted. According to Saberwing, firing shots depletes the cloak's energy. Thusly, if you fired immediately after activating, you'd get 1 sniper shot. If it's based on the amount of damage the shot would do, the STD sniper rifle does 209 damage. So that's 3 Scrambler Rifle shots (uncharged, else it'd be just 1), 6 AR rounds, etc. That's not enough to drop someone unless they're all head shots, and you can already do that by getting the drop on someone. The cloak deactivating after 200 damage dealt is basically the same as firing at someone when they haven't noticed you, and I don't see a big difference between firing from being cloaked or firing from someone's 6. Obviously if you cloak up while they're already looking at you, they're still going to shoot you. Perhaps there's something I've missed, though? Amarr HAV Speculation
Telcontar Dunedain Imperfects Negative-Feedback 564	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:50:00 - [8] - Quote This game is bad and hasn't improved in the six months since I stopped playing. You should all feel bad for still playing this game. lolaimbot514
Galthur CrimeWave Syndicate 197	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:51:00 - [9] - Quote Shooting removes cloak, that's all (maybe a extra equipment slot for scout with some cpu/pg also?) Seasoned players never left academy because it did not exist, that's why we fight alongside and against noobs.
Aero Yassavi Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire 4589	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:51:00 - [10] - Quote I agree with Kain Spero. As a possible rework, I suggest the cloaking cortex must be held in your hands for it to be active. If you were to switch and put a weapon or other equipment in your hand, that would put the cloaking cortex away and thus you would no longer be cloaked. And as a replacement for the Caldari scout bonus who would be affected by this, perhaps change it to 5% cloaking duration per level. It's a bird! It's a plane! No, it's Super Amarr!

Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2467	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:52:00 - [11] - Quote Arx, no first shot while cloaked. Either switching to a weapon should decloak you or have it where you have to manually deactivate the cloak to fire a weapon. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 743	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:52:00 - [12] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Dear CCP and the Community of Dust 514, I would like it the made publicly and clearly known that the CPM does not support the ability to fire a weapon while cloaked. If you support this (and even if you don't) I encourage you to post your thoughts so that CCP can hear our voices and change the course away from what would be a game-breaking mechanic. The devil is always in the details, but I think we can all agree that firing while cloaking is a line in the sand that CCP must not cross. /signed Kain Spero of CPM 0 Agreed. They can try to go behind enemy lines and such with Uplinks and try to hack and objective. But consider this: Proto Scout Charging a Viziam SCR and waiting for that Headshot... Some gun game that'd be
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6344	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:52:00 - [13] - Quote After giving it much thought, I now agree with you. Make the cloak so that it at least requires you to hold the cloak trigger in your hand in order to maintain cloak. If you swap around, you lose cloak. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 1022	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:52:00 - [14] - Quote The time from first shot to death is very short, so even if your first shot decloaks you, it's likely too powerful. Unless CCP's ready to massively nerf damage across the board and bring TTK down to where it belongs. Additionally, pretty much any action other than movement needs to decloak you. Hacks, grenades, equipment deploys. Calling in a vehicle. (I mean, if you can put a cloak on your pilot suit, and cloak while waiting for your tank, killing a guy and taking his vehicle will disappear overnight, and that's fun gameplay.) The one thing that might be fun, though, is allowing melee to work while cloaked. Since it's a shimmer effect, you'll be able to turn around and see/shoot them more than likely, and the damage of straight melee isn't very high anyways. But it'd need to be balance tested. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11746	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:53:00 - [15] - Quote Arx Ardashir wrote: Do you mean that you'd have to manually deactivate it before you could fire, or that the first shot would deactivate it? Based on what CCP Saberwing said here, a sniper shot would immediately deactivate the cloak. He also said that the cloak would be timed, and runs out when it's "energy" is depleted. According to Saberwing, firing shots depletes the cloak's energy. Thusly, if you fired immediately after activating, you'd get 1 sniper shot. If it's based on the amount of damage the shot would do, the STD sniper rifle does 209 damage. So that's 3 Scrambler Rifle shots (uncharged, else it'd be just 1), 6 AR rounds, etc. That's not enough to drop someone unless they're all head shots, and you can already do that by getting the drop on someone. The cloak deactivating after 200 damage dealt is basically the same as firing at someone when they haven't noticed you, and I don't see a big difference between firing from being cloaked or firing from someone's 6. Obviously if you cloak up while they're already looking at you, they're still going to shoot you. Perhaps there's something I've missed, though? CCP Remant CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2109	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:53:00 - [16] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: It's difficult to pass judgment when no hard numbers are available on cooldown, duration, fire cost, ect. The system sounds similar to Killzone 3 which I actually rather liked, however this is not the same as cloaks are in EVE. For those of you who don't know, most cloaks in EVE operate like this: Movement Speed Reduced by 90% Unable to use any weapons or modules while cloaked Any ship within 2500m will decloak your ship There is a delay after you decloak before you can lock on and use modules. Perhaps add more limitations to the proposed cloaking, such as a movement penalty and excessive cooldown time. Then offer a variant (Covert-Ops?) which does not include movement penalty and a shorter cooldown, but you are unable to fire your weapon until x-seconds after decloaking? The first would benefit snipers and those who need to stay hidden for long periods of time without moving. The latter would benefit those who want to play more of a field support role, but not a combat one. I think it would be better to compare it to a Covert-Ops cloak. Full movement, but still canGÇÖt fire when cloaked. However, with the Covert_Ops cloak you can lock and fire immediately after dropping the cloak. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else, there is the Learning Coalition.
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 3	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:54:00 - [17] - Quote As an avid supporter of the cloaking device technology finally becoming miniaturized , I say we keep the technology the same as it is in EVE. (I.E It is a passive mode where you cannot shoot or actively equip stuff BUT it gives you the opportunity to uncloak and drop a barrage of fire on an enemy in a surprise attack!)
R F Gyro Clones 4u 928	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:54:00 - [18] - Quote If they give us the ability to fire while cloaked, then realise it is a mistake and try to take it away, there'll be hell to pay. If they initially don't allow cloaked shooting, then later decide to enable it (maybe in a limited fashion, such as with special weapon variants), things will be much easier. So I'm happy to support this. RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 1022	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:54:00 - [19] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Arx, no first shot while cloaked. Either switching to a weapon should decloak you or have it where you have to manually deactivate the cloak to fire a weapon. I'd hate a manual deactivate step in the process, but weapon switch is already so instinctual, I think it'd be a smoother feel, to not have any other weapon or equipment in hand when you cloak, and switching to any of it decloaks you. That would prevent weapons, grenades, equipment, etc. all from working under cloak. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2467	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:54:00 - [20] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: I agree with Kain Spero. As a possible rework, I suggest the cloaking cortex must be held in your hands for it to be active. If you were to switch and put a weapon or other equipment in your hand, that would put the cloaking cortex away and thus you would no longer be cloaked. And as a replacement for the Caldari scout bonus who would be affected by this, perhaps change it to 5% cloaking duration per level. In terms of my personal feelings, I agree with exactly this. I know there are differing views though. 1 thing must be clear. No weapons fire while cloaked, first shot or otherwise. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news

DISGRUNTLEDev Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 242	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:54:00 - [21] - Quote F@k you Kain. Can scouts have any love? Seriously, it's been a year. You should start a petition about shotguns and Nova Knives too. Get F***ed.
Surt gods end Demon Ronin 1521	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:55:00 - [22] - Quote I liked KZ3 but I also like KZ4 approach to not letting cloaked scout shoot. instead that "assassination tool" is in the form of a OHK knife. Then let cloaked scout have be able to KNIFE. CLOAKING IS USED IN A MAJORITY OF FPS AS A ASSASSINATION TOOL. Look at the description of scout and find the word. If your saying there is no place in dust for OHK, then that a whole other avenue. Along with then a no place for ASSASSIN. Scouts by description tho are not just recon, but assassins. like in any other fps.
Aisha Ctarl Pradox One Proficiency V. 2781	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:56:00 - [23] - Quote Actually I'm fine with CCP's current idea regarding cloaks. I think a scout should be able to benefit from firing a LIMITED amount of shots while cloaked until the cloak breaks, but that number of shots until cloak failure should depend on the CALIBER of the weapon. For example the Sniper Rifle, Shotgun, Plasma Cannon, and a charged shot from the Scrambler Rifle should disable the cloak in one firing. The Rail Rifle should disable the cloak in 2 shots. The Combat Rifle and Assault Rifle should disable the cloak in 3 shots (one CR burst). ScP should disable the cloak in 2 shots and the SMG in maybe around 4. Aisha Ctarl for CPM1
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 779	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:57:00 - [24] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Dear CCP and the Community of Dust 514, I would like it the made publicly and clearly known that the CPM does not support the ability to fire a weapon while cloaked. If you support this (and even if you don't) I encourage you to post your thoughts so that CCP can hear our voices and change the course away from what would be a game-breaking mechanic. The devil is always in the details, but I think we can all agree that firing while cloaking is a line in the sand that CCP must not cross. /signed Kain Spero of CPM 0 /sign Especially sniper rifles. Munch Munch for CPM 1 Campaign Headquarters
dust badger SOUND Mercs Of Sound Mind 362	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:58:00 - [25] - Quote I agree switching to a weapon should declaok you so you at least have a chance to do something, if they are clever and cloak run behind you wait for the right moment decloak and unload in to your back fair enough but they shouldnt be able to follow you around and head shot you with a shotty from cloaked
Silas Swakhammer GamersForChrist Orion Empire 317	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:59:00 - [26] - Quote /signed Pineapples on pizza.
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 3	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:59:00 - [27] - Quote R F Gyro wrote: If they give us the ability to fire while cloaked, then realise it is a mistake and try to take it away, there'll be hell to pay. If they initially don't allow cloaked shooting, then later decide to enable it (maybe in a limited fashion, such as with special weapon variants), things will be much easier. So I'm happy to support this. What this guy says I agree with. At least do it the sensible way - start off with the basic cloaking mechanic and see how it goes from there CCP.
Righteous Rage BIG BAD W0LVES 33	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:00:00 - [28] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Arx, no first shot while cloaked. Either switching to a weapon should decloak you or have it where you have to manually deactivate the cloak to fire a weapon. Any shots while cloaked deal feedback damage, or cause death. I would love to see more suicide in public areas "Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam."
Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 603	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:02:00 - [29] - Quote Arx Ardashir wrote: Do you mean that you'd have to manually deactivate it before you could fire, or that the first shot would deactivate it? Based on what CCP Remnant said here, a sniper shot would immediately deactivate the cloak. He also said that the cloak would be timed, and runs out when it's "energy" is depleted. According to Remnant, firing shots depletes the cloak's energy. Thusly, if you fired immediately after activating, you'd get 1 sniper shot. If it's based on the amount of damage the shot would do, the STD sniper rifle does 209 damage. So that's 3 Scrambler Rifle shots (uncharged, else it'd be just 1), 6 AR rounds, etc. That's not enough to drop someone unless they're all head shots, and you can already do that by getting the drop on someone. The cloak deactivating after 200 damage dealt is basically the same as firing at someone when they haven't noticed you, and I don't see a big difference between firing from being cloaked or firing from someone's 6. Obviously if you cloak up while they're already looking at you, they're still going to shoot you. Perhaps there's something I've missed, though? Edit: Whoops, apparently had CCP Saberwing on the brain. Corrected to CCP Remnant. This is how I read it as well In your blind spot
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 411	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:04:00 - [30] - Quote I think that firing a weapon should at a minimum light you up on scan and cause a great shimmer. However I think the bigger issue is letting cloaked units even equip light weapons to begin with. I think even if a unit gets fully decloaked while shooting, do you really want a Thales Sniper peacfully getting into position, firing, and then ducking behind cover? Do you really want a rail rifle user getting into the periphery of your squad and picking you off when it's convenient, then slipping away to recharge his cloak for another round? I think that a cloaky combat role is a gameplay mistake, and discussions about nerfing it will only result in a useless cloaky combat role. My proposal to holistically solve this problem is to steer cloaked units away from a direct combat role, and into a sneaky utility role: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1701255

Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2470	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:04:00 - [31] - Quote R F Gyro wrote: If they give us the ability to fire while cloaked, then realise it is a mistake and try to take it away, there'll be hell to pay. If they initially don't allow cloaked shooting, then later decide to enable it (maybe in a limited fashion, such as with special weapon variants), things will be much easier. So I'm happy to support this. Totally spot on. Let cloaks land with a no fire limitation and then let's go from there. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 3	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:06:00 - [32] - Quote Righteous Rage wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Arx, no first shot while cloaked. Either switching to a weapon should decloak you or have it where you have to manually deactivate the cloak to fire a weapon. Any shots while cloaked deal feedback damage, or cause death. I would love to see more suicide in public areas This sounds like fun!
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2473	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:15:00 - [33] - Quote DISGRUNTLEDev wrote: F@k you Kain. Can scouts have any love? Seriously, it's been a year. You should start a petition about shotguns and Nova Knives too. Get F***ed. I'm not saying remove the cloak. My only concern with this petition is to not allow anyone to fire a weapon while cloaked. I have played with you often enough to know with the ability to move unseen you have the skills needed to wreak havock without having to cross the line of shooting while cloaked. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
pseudosnipre 485	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:19:00 - [34] - Quote CPM would rather focus on ability to fire while cloaked and NOT on the ease with which the new logi bonus will facilitate fitting of cloaks? Bravo. Also, cloaking is NOT going to benefit the highly talented scouts that still play the suit...they're already invisible to the mouth-breathing, tacnet-dependent masses. Today is the sort of day where the sun only comes up to humiliate you.
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 62	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:20:00 - [35] - Quote R F Gyro wrote: If they give us the ability to fire while cloaked, then realise it is a mistake and try to take it away, there'll be hell to pay. If they initially don't allow cloaked shooting, then later decide to enable it (maybe in a limited fashion, such as with special weapon variants), things will be much easier. So I'm happy to support this. This. At first I thought CCPs implementation might not be bad, but IF IT IS, it will be very difficult to change it later. Small steps, small steps.
Baltazar Pontain Phantom Universe Task Force Die Fremdenlegion 61	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:20:00 - [36] - Quote Can someone explain me why this topic is so hot discussed? Has CCP delivered some hard facts about cloacking I have missed? If not I suggest to cool down and wait until they have delivered. If yes, can someone post me the link?
kiarbanor S.e.V.e.N. General Tso's Alliance 269	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:21:00 - [37] - Quote CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote: if u are cloaked, u are just that... in stealth mode. being able to do anything aside from moving behind enemy lines undetected will simply cause headaches and issues that can be avoided by actually listening to people now should be just like an active scanner. Personally it should be an innate skill only in scouts, and I could even get on board with it being a part of the suit, not taking up a slot. same rules as a scanner.. has a cooldown period, and you can do nothing except run and jump (and climb) while its activated. As someone that loves running Scouts--even though I die by being looked at--and have been looking forward to this cloaking "thing," I can't justify being able to shoot while being cloaked. So, I'm on board with Spero. Also, Cubs, I agree with the way you're looking at this. My fear--as also being a ck.0 Logi user--is having the ability to simply sacrifice three pieces of equipment for two and carrying a cloak on my proto Logi. I would prefer for Scouts to be the only ones to use cloak, and for it not to take up their equipment slot. Maybe have it as a low slot, active module. But not as equipment.
mollerz Minja Scouts 1654	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:22:00 - [38] - Quote I wasn't for firing a weapon when cloaked, but you know what? After a year of knifing people with 5x or more EHP firing guns (SCP) that take me out in a blink.. let's see how this rolls. I'm certainly going to use it as an assassination tool. Sorry Med frames. You are going to have to tough it out. We'll come back in a year see how everything is fairing. I am sure you guys are going to be howling bloody murder. I can already see more petitions, QQ, snore snore. HTFU and git gud, guys You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
pseudosnipre 485	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:22:00 - [39] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: DISGRUNTLEDev wrote: F@k you Kain. Can scouts have any love? Seriously, it's been a year. You should start a petition about shotguns and Nova Knives too. Get F***ed. I'm not saying remove the cloak. My only concern with this petition is to not allow anyone to fire a weapon while cloaked. I have played with you often enough to know with the ability to move unseen you have the skills needed to wreak havock without having to cross the line of shooting while cloaked. Exactly, so why is this considered a scout-friendly addition to the game? Anybody with a scout suit will be able to do the same thing now... Today is the sort of day where the sun only comes up to humiliate you.
Aero Yassavi Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire 4595	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:22:00 - [40] - Quote Baltazar Pontain wrote: Can someone explain me why this topic is so hot discussed? Has CCP delivered some hard facts about cloacking I have missed? If not I suggest to cool down and wait until they have delivered. If yes, can someone post me the link? Actually, yes, they have CCP Remnant wrote: - The cloak field is a piece of equipment. - When selected the cortex is raised and you press fire to activate it. - Once activated, it goes away and your weapon is raised. You can switch to other weapons/equipment while cloaked. - You cloak. The amount of "shimmer" is increased as you move so standing still you will be nigh invisible, but when moving you will be noticeable to an extent. When cloaked, you obviously have no chevron or health bars, but the enemy reticule will flash red if you run past it. - Cloak can be deactivated by selecting it and pressing fire. - Once deactivated or it runs out it will start to recharge. - Firing a weapon while cloaked will rapidly deplete the cloak field (a single shot from a sniper rifle, for instance, will decloak you) - You can only fit one cloak field at a time. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=postmessage&t=134545&f=728&q=1699636 It's a bird! It's a plane! No, it's Super Amarr!

Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 258	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:22:00 - [41] - Quote I agree that, done poorly, a cloaking mechanic would be terrible for the game. However, we do not have all the numbers and we still have time to cause changes. Once we have the full statistics for the modules and how the mechanics operate, we will be able to generate actual, useful feedback. This thread is a kneejerk reaction, though not unwarranted. I support the notion that R F Gyro had: implement it with firing disallowed and bring in variants/introduce cloaked firing later. Baby steps.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1968	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:26:00 - [42] - Quote Define 'cloaked'. Because from what it sounds like, you will have a degree of cloakedness. If you start to shimmer the second your weapon fires, then are you cloaked? If you basically can only walk around with your cloak module in your hands as you are cloaked, or hold your gun and wait for the cloak to deactivate in order to fire then I'd say that is a disadvantage as well. I say we wait to see how the balance for shimmering works then we decide.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9824	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:26:00 - [43] - Quote You should only cloak while the device is in your hands. This encourages lowering your profile still, so that way you can sneak behind the enemy, decloak, murder them without showing up on radar, cloak, and leave. Assault Dropship Montage Incubus Pilot, AV Specialist, Fat Scout DUST addict
Surt gods end Demon Ronin 1523	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:28:00 - [44] - Quote pseudosnipre wrote: Kain Spero wrote: DISGRUNTLEDev wrote: F@k you Kain. Can scouts have any love? Seriously, it's been a year. You should start a petition about shotguns and Nova Knives too. Get F***ed. I'm not saying remove the cloak. My only concern with this petition is to not allow anyone to fire a weapon while cloaked. I have played with you often enough to know with the ability to move unseen you have the skills needed to wreak havock without having to cross the line of shooting while cloaked. Exactly, so why is this considered a scout-friendly addition to the game? Anybody with a scout suit will be able to do the same thing now... I hope kain.. that your vision of scouts or you IWS is not one where the Assassination description part is no longer there. Scouts were never just passive recon/hack. Not in any build. Despite all the crap we went through we never went passive. By the time you see us or we are close to shake your hand.. you were dead. that was it. Why now is this being discussed?
GET ATMESON Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 211	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:32:00 - [45] - Quote Why wasnt there more CPM post like this through out the year? Were you in hiding? Did you come back when elections are coming? Are you doing this so you can have people supporting you? What one is it :) 1.7 HMG hotfix works great. Now for more Heavy suits or guns soonGäó
mollerz Minja Scouts 1657	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:32:00 - [46] - Quote No matter what- we should be able to hold a weapon/equipment while cloaked. Holding what is tantamount to a cloaking lantern with both hands whilst traipsing through a battlefield is lame, and no advanced technological combat cloak wouldn't let you be hands free so you could hold a weapon, climb a ladder, etc. And wait a second... Does Kain even play scout? If not.. sorry man. This is just QQ wrapped up in a med frame blanket petition. Downvote to this CPM in an election, scouts. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Hyborean Strain Immortal Guides 19	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:33:00 - [47] - Quote Cloaks should come pre-nerfed, definitely. As an earlier poster said, if they give people an "I WIN" button like the ability to fire while cloaked and later take it away, for any reason; people will shriek like you won't believe. Avoid the firestorm, CCP.
pseudosnipre 485	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:37:00 - [48] - Quote Hyborean Strain wrote: Cloaks should come pre-nerfed, definitely. As an earlier poster said, if they give people an "I WIN" button like the ability to fire while cloaked and later take it away, for any reason; people will shriek like you won't believe. Avoid the firestorm, CCP. Kind of like if they gave logi suits a passive repair bonus and then took it away...? Today is the sort of day where the sun only comes up to humiliate you.
devonus durga P.L.A.N. B 6	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:38:00 - [49] - Quote I think our time would be better spent petitioning crap that's already in the game and broken, instead of something we don't know anything about, isn't in the game, and may not be for awhile. Petition to protest pointless petitions: Devonus Durga
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2477	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:38:00 - [50] - Quote pseudosnipre wrote: CPM would rather focus on ability to fire while cloaked and NOT on the ease with which the new logi bonus will facilitate fitting of cloaks? Bravo. Also, cloaking is NOT going to benefit the highly talented scouts that still play the suit...they're already invisible to the mouth-breathing, tacnet-dependent masses. How easy a cloak is to fit is one of the devils in the details of the stats of the cloak itself and what the suits bonuses actually end up at. Whether or not you can fire while cloaked is a high level aspect of the cloak field's design that needs to be nipped in the bud. That doesn't mean there aren't other issues (can you use equipment while cloaked, can other suits fit a cloak, etc) that don't need to be address. With the specific stats still an unknown, I think the firing while cloaked issues is something that can be openly discussed among the community and it can be an issues where we can make ourselves heard loud and clear without having to worry about the ambiguity that unfinalized suit bonuses and stats brings. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news

Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1515	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:43:00 - [51] - Quote Telcontar Dunedain wrote: This game is bad and hasn't improved in the six months since I stopped playing. You should all feel bad for still playing this game. lolaimbot514 You haven't played for six months ... well then how do you know it hasn't improved? And even more important: Why are you still here? Sign up for Caldari FW and defeat the evil Gallente Overlords!
xSynnx x Requiem of Shadows 43	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:46:00 - [52] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: For those of you who don't know, most cloaks in EVE operate like this: Movement Speed Reduced by 90% Unable to use any weapons or modules while cloaked Any ship within 2500m will decloak your ship There is a delay after you decloak before you can lock on and use modules. Most? There are only 2 types of cloaks in Eve, so at best you can say Half of the cloaks work that way.
Alex Desmond Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 12	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:46:00 - [53] - Quote Perhaps if your cloak became partial or jammed when you come close to an enemy. This way, you won't randomly be shotgunned or nova knifed out of nowhere. You could also incorporate a "Cloak Strength" bar which determines how cloaked you are depending on proximity, scanning, firing and possible movements like jumping. With this you'd have to be careful with your cloak. (maybe some new modules can help this or work against it) "Scan Attempt Prevented"... Music to my ears.
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2477	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:49:00 - [54] - Quote mollerz wrote: No matter what- we should be able to hold a weapon/equipment while cloaked. Holding what is tantamount to a cloaking lantern with both hands whilst traipsing through a battlefield is lame, and no advanced technological combat cloak wouldn't let you be hands free so you could hold a weapon, climb a ladder, etc. And wait a second... Does Kain even play scout? If not.. sorry man. This is just QQ wrapped up in a med frame blanket petition. Downvote to this CPM in an election, scouts. Actually, I agree that scouts have been in a bad place. The CPM has discussed with CCP as well that the scout should be a viable role even when a cloak isn't used. Sure scouts can use a cloak better if you look at the bonuses on SiSi, but they need to be effective in their own right as well. I have not put the hours into a scout that the experts have, but from my experience the scout is one of the most challenging and at the same time exhilarating roles in the game. I don't think the improvements to scouts should stop with a cloak. I really feel they should be the information specialists on the field as well. I just want it to be clear that shooting while cloaked shouldn't be a thing and if based on that premise further adjustments need to be made to the scout role them I'm all for it. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Sentient Archon 1379	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:49:00 - [55] - Quote Why would CCP do such a thing when even in Eve you have to decloak before you pew pew? The only troll to successfully troll CCP.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9826	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:52:00 - [56] - Quote If you can shoot while cloaked, it should bump you out of cloak on the very first shot, and it should double your cooldown timer to go back into cloak. This allows for a single surprise attack, leaving the scout vulnerable if he overextends. Honestly, it's not much different than just holding the cloak, and would offer incentive to decloak first, since you could cloak that much faster. Assault Dropship Montage Incubus Pilot, AV Specialist, Fat Scout DUST addict
Pseudogenesis Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 91	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:53:00 - [57] - Quote I'm in favor of this, but I'm also in favor of being able to swing knives while cloaked.
Knight Soiaire BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 4328	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:53:00 - [58] - Quote Equipment should be available while cloaked, if we get 2 EQ slots I should be able to drop EQ, but it should drain the Cloak. Also, I love how the first ever CPM Petition I've seen involves pre-nerfing an EQ that is being specifically made to buff Scouts. Can the Scout get any love? Provider of Vanilla Scented Soap Bars
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2482	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:54:00 - [59] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: I agree that, done poorly, a cloaking mechanic would be terrible for the game. However, we do not have all the numbers and we still have time to cause changes. Once we have the full statistics for the modules and how the mechanics operate, we will be able to generate actual, useful feedback. This thread is a kneejerk reaction, though not unwarranted. I support the notion that R F Gyro had: implement it with firing disallowed and bring in variants/introduce cloaked firing later. Baby steps. There is no kneejerk here. It's just that with how the cloaks function being publicly posted we can talk about this openly with you all since it was previous in NDA hell. The CPM has been adamant that you should not be able to fire while cloaked from the very first time the issue of cloaks was brought up. I agree that R F Gyro's position nails it on the head. Implement with firing disallowed. We can then see the gameplay impact and thoughtfully discuss future baby steps of iteration. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
sammus420 Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 358	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:54:00 - [60] - Quote Can we at least try it out before we get all wound up about it?

xSynnx x Requiem of Shadows 43	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:55:00 - [61] - Quote With the talk of shimmer ive been seeing, if they treat this like the killzone cloak i fully support it.
GET ATMESON Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 212	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:56:00 - [62] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: mollerz wrote: No matter what- we should be able to hold a weapon/equipment while cloaked. Holding what is tantamount to a cloaking lantern with both hands whilst traipsing through a battlefield is lame, and no advanced technological combat cloak wouldn't let you be hands free so you could hold a weapon, climb a ladder, etc. And wait a second... Does Kain even play scout? If not.. sorry man. This is just QQ wrapped up in a med frame blanket petition. Downvote to this CPM in an election, scouts. Actually, I agree that scouts have been in a bad place. The CPM has discussed with CCP as well that the scout should be a viable role even when a cloak isn't used. Sure scouts can use a cloak better if you look at the bonuses on SiSi, but they need to be effective in their own right as well. I have not put the hours into a scout that the experts have, but from my experience the scout is one of the most challenging and at the same time exhilarating roles in the game. I don't think the improvements to scouts should stop with a cloak. I really feel they should be the information specialists on the field as well. I just want it to be clear that shooting while cloaked shouldn't be a thing and if based on that premise further adjustments need to be made to the scout role them I'm all for it. Forcing scouts to use a cloak to be viable on the battlefield to me is just as bad as if the cloak landed in the form of an I-win button. If the CPM have been "discussing" scouts why hasnt there been any post up by you guys saying "we talked about scouts today" "We might get these changes" Can you show the community any of this? I would like to see 1 post you made in General Discussions. Link please. 1.7 HMG hotfix works great. Now for more Heavy suits or guns soonGäó
Minmatar Citizen 3173120 Xpert Intervention 63	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:59:00 - [63] - Quote Cloaking in dust, LMAO. Like this game is'nt empty enough. Now everyone will be ghosts. Thale sniper, pop, invisible, pop, invisible. New low for dust.
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2484	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:01:00 - [64] - Quote GET ATMESON wrote: If the CPM have been "discussing" scouts why hasnt there been any post up by you guys saying "we talked about scouts today" "We might get these changes" Can you show the community any of this? I would like to see 1 post you made in General discussions. Link please. Unfortunately, we've actually been asked in many cases when we have meetings to consider even the fact that we have had a meeting NDA. This lack of transparency has probably been one of the more frustrating aspects of being on the CPM. I will also say the channels of communication with the Devs that are responsible for moment to moment gameplay have been spotty at best. For this reason I really wold like to applaud CCP Remant for publicly posting how the cloaks currently work so we can all discuss this. The forums are not our only avenue of communication or discussion. The CPM can be reached via, skype, email, and in-game almost 24/7. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Spectre-M The Generals General Tso's Alliance 203	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:03:00 - [65] - Quote +1. Invisible caldari snipers will be game breaking. Cloaks should not be tied to combat, they should be tied to mobility and positioning. Get behind enemy lines to drop uplinks and push while reinforcement spawns in from behind. Tactical cloaks, not combat cloaks. Amarr Factional Warfare Loyalist Minnmatar in Amarr Armor I am a Wolf in Sheeps Clothing
calvin b Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 1363	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:03:00 - [66] - Quote If this does happen no one will see anyone for we all will be cloaked and then it will be a game of the blind playing hide and seek. TANK514 another sign of cancer in the game
IgniteableAura Pro Hic Immortalis 476	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:04:00 - [67] - Quote -1 to CPM I really dont think it will be all that effective. The shimmer will be totally obvious unless on a scout that has the shimmer bonus. People are making mountains out of mole hills. The big benefit will be lack of chevron, tacnet and no health bars. It will be a hit and run tactic. Shoot someone while not cloaked, run around a corner, cloak and wait for them to run by you...then ambush. Cloak is a gimmick to make scouts more attractive, but hardly OP I bet activation on cloak is less than 20 seconds. Thats less time then you would be lit up by an active scanner. Snipers will be even less effective if they use cloak as they would be forced to wait the reactivation time...likely pretty substantial. Also snipers are already all but impossible to kill with their 1000hp on top of triage hives headglitched behind some terrain. I would love to see a sniper gimp their suit to fit a cloak. PHI Recruitment or PHIsh Tank in game Twitch
Rogue Saint Science For Death 668	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:08:00 - [68] - Quote NAV HIV wrote: Agreed. They can try to go behind enemy lines and such with Uplinks and try to hack and objective. But consider this: Proto Scout Charging a Viziam SCR and waiting for that Headshot... Some gun game that'd be Isn't the cloak meant to be equipment? If so then there won't be any scouts dropping uplinks behind enemy lines or even RE's etc. We are still unsure of what the "new" scout suits will be. I'll await judgement until we get better details on scout changes, cloak information (unless CPM is breaking NDA here) and anything else that may come along regarding scouts. We don't even know when these changes are coming.... 1.8? 1.9? or Major release? GôêGÆ+GÆ+GÆ¦ - Bringing the dakka
Vespasian Andendare Subsonic Synthesis RISE of LEGION 554	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:09:00 - [69] - Quote I don't know if I can sign on to this petition. Certainly, not new before we know anything about cooldowns, signature blooms, cost of firing, etc. However, looking forward, if it was balanced around a few shots, then it likely wouldn't be that bad. I mean, consider that a cloak is what the scout has to survive. If scout suits are balanced around not being hit as their survival, then they're so paper thin that it won't matter. Bonus points for them showing up on active scanners but not visually. >> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! <<
Rogue Saint Science For Death 668	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:09:00 - [70] - Quote NAV HIV wrote: Agreed. They can try to go behind enemy lines and such with Uplinks and try to hack and objective. But consider this: Proto Scout Charging a Viziam SCR and waiting for that Headshot... Some gun game that'd be Isn't the cloak meant to be equipment? If so then there won't be any scouts dropping uplinks behind enemy lines or even RE's etc. We are still unsure of what the "new" scout suits will be. I'll await judgement until we get better details on scout changes, cloak information (unless CPM is breaking NDA here) and anything else that may come along regarding scouts. We don't even know when these changes are coming.... 1.8? 1.9? or Major release? GôêGÆ+GÆ+GÆ¦ - Bringing the dakka

Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2489	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:11:00 - [71] - Quote Spectre-M wrote: +1. Invisible caldari snipers will be game breaking. Cloaks should not be tied to combat, they should be tied to mobility and positioning. Get behind enemy lines to drop uplinks and push while reinforcement spawns in from behind. Tactical cloaks, not combat cloaks. Totally agree. I think more discussion can be done once cloaks actually land, but the first iteration needs to be no firing allowed. I've played numerous games where cloaking was a critical part of the game. I sunk tons of hours into Aliens versus Predator (1999), AvP2, and Aliens vs Predator on the console. Cloaking had to be thoughtfully implemented and the weapons that could be fired while cloaked had specific balance elements related to cloaking (the visible red laser projected while the plasma castor was charged etc.). Allowing all weapons to whole sale have a first shot while cloaked would be horrible and ruin the fps experience of Dust 514. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 259	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:12:00 - [72] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: There is no kneejerk here. It's just that with how the cloaks function being publicly posted we can talk about this openly with you all since it was previous in NDA hell. The CPM has been adamant that you should not be able to fire while cloaked from the very first time the issue of cloaks was brought up. I agree that R F Gyro's position nails it on the head. Implement with firing disallowed. We can then see the gameplay impact and thoughtfully discuss future baby steps of iteration. +1 Sir. I definitely applaud the transparency you are intending to provide.
GET ATMESON Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 212	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:18:00 - [73] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: GET ATMESON wrote: If the CPM have been "discussing" scouts why hasnt there been any post up by you guys saying "we talked about scouts today" "We might get these changes" Can you show the community any of this? I would like to see 1 post you made in General discussions. Link please. Unfortunately, we've actually been asked in many cases when we have meetings to consider even the fact that we have had a meeting NDA. This lack of transparency has probably been one of the more frustrating aspects of being on the CPM. I will also say the channels of communication with the Devs that are responsible for moment to moment gameplay have been spotty at best. For this reason I really wold like to applaud CCP Remant for publicly posting how the cloaks currently work so we can all discuss this. The forums are not our only avenue of communication or discussion. The CPM can be reached via, skype, email, and in-game almost 24/7. Working with one member at a time isnt helping the community. Thats helping a person. People do that all the time with skype. I dont want to skype with you guys. Talk is cheap. Actions are louder then words. If there was more CPM posts like this forum post " CPM: Pettion to ____" would have been way better. Anyone can say " Yea i talked with a CPM today on skype" and really didnt. People have tried to mail some of your CPM members on alts of alts and never had any words back. I side tracked off this topic but I got the answer I was thinking I was thinking I would get. The clocking shouldnt be on any suit but scout. If its on another suit it should cost 85%- 95% CPU plus a gun bug to make it so you cant shoot right off the get go. 1.7 HMG hotfix works great. Now for more Heavy suits or guns soonGäó
Hawkings Greenback Red Star. EoN. 87	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:18:00 - [74] - Quote Firing any weapon or using equipment should cause the cloak to deactivate. Also I would like to see a cloak destabilise if something gets close. Basically the same kind of principle as EVE. Logi For Life-Mini Logi suit wearer & proud Forum Lurker-level unknown Do clones dream of Dolly the sheep
Llast 326 An Arkhos 1180	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:19:00 - [75] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Dear CCP and the Community of Dust 514, I would like it the made publicly and clearly known that the CPM does not support the ability to fire a weapon while cloaked. If you support this (and even if you don't) I encourage you to post your thoughts so that CCP can hear our voices and change the course away from what would be a game-breaking mechanic. The devil is always in the details, but I think we can all agree that firing while cloaking is a line in the sand that CCP must not cross. /signed Kain Spero of CPM 0 Well, as the rest of us are probably more in the dark than the CPM, I could just run under the assumption that you know something about this implementation that us huddled masses have no comprehension about and support this. Or I could continue to question what other factors are at play with this cloak for balancing purposes. Does the CPM have more info than the rest of the community? Do they know how long the cloaks active time is? Do they know how quickly it depletes on firing with different weapons? Do they know the CPU/PG balance that the cloak will require in order to assess the value of fittings possible? Do they have reason to cause panic and feed speculation about an "OP" feature or is it speculation that has caused the CPM to speculate and panic. NDA probably limits what can actually be said about this, and that is understandable. So until the DEV blog comes out, or the DEVs give us more info, I think it may be too soon to say it is a game-braking mechanic. Clearly you believe it will be game-breaking as you have used such concrete language in your post, do you actually have more information that supports your claim, or is your post based on bias? KRRROOOOOOM
IgniteableAura Pro Hic Immortalis 476	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:20:00 - [76] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Actually, I agree that scouts have been in a bad place. The CPM has discussed with CCP as well that the scout should be a viable role even when a cloak isn't used. Sure scouts can use a cloak better if you look at the bonuses on SiSi, but they need to be effective in their own right as well. I have not put the hours into a scout that the experts have, but from my experience the scout is one of the most challenging and at the same time exhilarating roles in the game. I don't think the improvements to scouts should stop with a cloak. I really feel they should be the information specialists on the field as well. I just want it to be clear that shooting while cloaked shouldn't be a thing and if based on that premise further adjustments need to be made to the scout role them I'm all for it. Forcing scouts to use a cloak to be viable on the battlefield to me is just as bad as if the cloak landed in the form of an I-win button. Why no petition that scout ROLE BONUS IS TO CLOAKING THEN. That means we are required to run a cloak. If we dont our main role bonus is unused There are soooo many other issues that make cloaks worrisome than being able to shoot while cloaked. Like the fact that the cloak is considered equipment and all logis have 25% fitting bonus to equipment and have double the CPU/PG of a scout. Being able to not shoot while cloak invalidates the purpose behind it. Cloak is there to give scouts the assassination role, to remain unseen. Requiring scouts to "hold it" or deactivate prior to shooting gimps us more than we are currently. No expert scout would ever even use a cloak. Especially since it "shimmers" more greatly with increased movement speed.....oh wait, aren't scouts the fastest frame in Dust. Scouts continue to get nerfed...even the gal role bonus is getting nerfed...YAY. PHI Recruitment or PHIsh Tank in game Twitch
Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 2715	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:21:00 - [77] - Quote Right now, given the current facts on the cloak (as given by CCP Remnant) I'm fine with it. After I see how it plays in the game, I may change my mind. I'm fine with it if you can shoot when it's on, BUT ONLY IF THE CLOAK TURNS OFF AFTER THE FIRST SHOT or very shortly thereafter. On aside note, my commando will truly kick some butt Proud member of the Commando 6 <3 Commando AK.0
Ryder Azorria Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 802	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:23:00 - [78] - Quote Very much not signed. TBH the ability to fire a single shot or two while cloaked really doesn't offer much advantage, especially since moving makes you visible and having to manually decloak in order to fire just sounds like a giant PITA for anyone who successfully gets the drop on their enemy and wants to quickly engage - it would be especially bad for anyone who might use it with nova knives. Honestly, despite what you say, there are too many unknowns to make an informed decision - how long the cloak normally lasts, how visible you are while moving, exactly how long it takes to become partially and completely visible after opening fire, and how long the cool-down is will all play an important role in how 'OP' shooting while cloaked is or isn't. There's also the (IMO, much more important) issue of if / how the cloak affects your sig and how easy it is to scan you. Tl;dr - As it stands, with the general impression I'm getting from Remnant, I fully support the proposed shooting while cloaked mechanic, but until we see it in action, in the full context of a battle, you can't really make an informed decision one way or the other.
Ace Starburst PiZzA DuDeS 54	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:33:00 - [79] - Quote Fire of Prometheus wrote: Right now, given the current facts on the cloak (as given by CCP Remnant) I'm fine with it. After I see how it plays in the game, I may change my mind. I'm fine with it if you can shoot when it's on, BUT ONLY IF THE CLOAK TURNS OFF AFTER THE FIRST SHOT or very shortly thereafter. On aside note, my commando will truly kick some butt Basically this. I'm interested to see how they implement it and look forward to the challenge of spinning around and killing tiny predators after the first shot.
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 262	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:35:00 - [80] - Quote CPM i hope you will read this post. This is from someone that KNOW what is a cloaking in video games. - Borderlands 2 - Killzone 3 -Fallout 3 and others.... Be able to make ANYTHING that can lead to the ennemy death while cloaked will make it totally OP. First ! cloak is a scout device. NOT an assassin device. Learn the diffrence and try to explain it to CCP please. Scout is meant to grab information about the ennemy and destroy or trap the ennemy intel. And get the objectives while Heavier units in combat suit cover them. So here's : 1 : People must not be able to have their weapon while cloaked they must hold the device in their hand to stay cloaked. 2 : To be able to shoot they must swap weapons (Will make a sound like a flux grenade) OR they can turn it off manually to be quiet. 3 : You can't use any equipements while cloaked and 2sec after the cloak is disabled. 4- After you disabled your cloak (for any reason) everyone can see you on their passive scanners for 1 sec in a radius of 5 meters (avoid shotgun/ Nova knives assassination). 5- Anybody that hurt you disable your cloak (Careful to explosives and lfux) 6- Nobody else than Light Dropsuit (Scouts) must be able to use cloak device. Because it will be a "must have" item and will simply RUIN the game and making it a "crysis" like. And it SUCKS. No assault / heavy / logi must be able to be cloaked it must be a scout exclusive. That was for the drawbacks it NEED to be implemented or it will be Cloak514 for everyone. Now the advantages than nobody talk about and could be implemented to be REALLY useful for the team : 1 : Be cloaked reduce your scanned profile (Db) per 2. You have 36Db ? Now it's 18 while cloaked. Even a focused scanner will have difficulties to scan a cloaked scout. 2 : Walking on ANY equipements in a radisu of 2 meters (hives/remote/uplinks) will destroy them WITHOUT disabled the cloak or any penality. Now you can cut all the ennemy intel without being spoted. And you can defuse all the remote trap on the objectives easily. You're FREAKING USEFUL. 3 : Being cloaked increase your hack speed about 25%, you can hack without disable the cloak. Capture objectives and installation are EASIER and you can escape cloaked before the ennemy has comes to you. Cloak => Run => Hack => Run away : Less than 30sec. 4 : Everybody in the radius of your passive scanner (16m) and which is detected normally now appears in the scanners of ALL YOUR TEAMATES for 5 sec. Rush into them to spot them all. (but carefully !) 5 : If you crouch even if the ennemy is aiming you while cloaked their aim will not tilt "red".

Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2494	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:43:00 - [81] - Quote Hawkings Greenback wrote: Firing any weapon or using equipment should cause the cloak to deactivate. Also I would like to see a cloak destabilise if something gets close. Basically the same kind of principle as EVE. The threshold really needs to be cloak deactivates and then you can fire. How quickly that process happens can be up for discussion, but for me the threshold needs to be that the cloak is dropped before any damage can happen. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Logi Bro Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN. 2592	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:47:00 - [82] - Quote This seems like a whole lot of paranoia over a mechanic that nobody is fully sure how it works. Assuming there is a significant shimmer effect, I see no problem with letting people fire their weapon cloaked, but assuming that the shimmer effect is basically nil, then it should be reworked so that no shots may be fired whilst cloaked. Simple as that. No, I am not CCP Logibro. Not actually a Logi Bro anymore, more like a Big Bro.
Driftward Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 566	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:53:00 - [83] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: pseudosnipre wrote: CPM would rather focus on ability to fire while cloaked and NOT on the ease with which the new logi bonus will facilitate fitting of cloaks? Bravo. Also, cloaking is NOT going to benefit the highly talented scouts that still play the suit...they're already invisible to the mouth-breathing, tacnet-dependent masses. How easy a cloak is to fit is one of the devils in the details of the stats of the cloak itself and what the suits bonuses actually end up at. Whether or not you can fire while cloaked is a high level aspect of the cloak field's design that needs to be nipped in the bud. That doesn't mean there aren't other issues (can you use equipment while cloaked, can other suits fit a cloak, etc) that don't need to be address. With the specific stats still an unknown, I think the firing while cloaked issues is something that can be openly discussed among the community and it can be an issues where we can make ourselves heard loud and clear without having to worry about the ambiguity that unfinalized suit bonuses and stats brings. Um what equipment? Because you know, scouts only have the one freaking slot. And we're being forced to take a cloak instead of anything else due to the nature of our bonus. And they're taking away any form of passive dampening for scouts (except one race). So in order to not show up on scans we have to stack dampeners on our already limited slots in addition to being HP poor to begin with and you don't want to be shot once before we de-cloak? HTFU. It takes minimum 2-3 shots to drop a proto suit, about 2 for an advanced and 3-5 for heavies. So we get, MAYBE, one kill. and then we exposed ourselves and die instantly. If it's not used strategically and very situationally it's only useful as a suicide tactic. But we do that already with cheap suits and remotes AND get more kills that way. I'd be more worried about how logis are going to benefit from this and trying to influence that. They can carry BOTH REs and cloaks. Have fun with that while the scouts are relegated to obscurity once again.
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2494	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:58:00 - [84] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: This seems like a whole lot of paranoia over a mechanic that nobody is fully sure how it works. Assuming there is a significant shimmer effect, I see no problem with letting people fire their weapon cloaked, but assuming that the shimmer effect is basically nil, then it should be reworked so that no shots may be fired whilst cloaked. Simple as that. The current extent of invisibility: CCP Remnant wrote: Standing still you will be nigh invisible, but when moving you will be noticeable to an extent. Going from "nigh invisible" to applying damage is why you should not be able to fire shots while cloaked. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 1028	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:01:00 - [85] - Quote Driftward wrote: Um what equipment? Because you know, scouts only have the one freaking slot. And we're being forced to take a cloak instead of anything else due to the nature of our bonus. There are scout suits with other bonuses. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Driftward Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 568	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:04:00 - [86] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Logi Bro wrote: This seems like a whole lot of paranoia over a mechanic that nobody is fully sure how it works. Assuming there is a significant shimmer effect, I see no problem with letting people fire their weapon cloaked, but assuming that the shimmer effect is basically nil, then it should be reworked so that no shots may be fired whilst cloaked. Simple as that. The current extent of invisibility: CCP Remnant wrote: Standing still you will be nigh invisible, but when moving you will be noticeable to an extent. Going from "nigh invisible" to applying damage is why you should not be able to fire shots while cloaked. So how often do you sit still while shooting at people? How often have you tried to fire and aim a shotgun while remaining perfectly still (or nova knives for even greater hilarity)? Even better should we just transport ourselves to our enemies using a teleporter? Oh wait that mechanic isn't here yet. To get next to the person you want to shoot, you kind of have to move a bit ergo The Shimmer. Because you know to do any kind of significant damage (other than perhaps a sniper which isn't what you're QQing about here) you need to be up close and personal. So get yourself a Gal Logi to scan the crap out of the field (because even dampener stacked gal scout cant beat their scan power soon) and keep checking behind your 6; We're Coming For You. Soraya Xel wrote: Driftward wrote: Um what equipment? Because you know, scouts only have the one freaking slot. And we're being forced to take a cloak instead of anything else due to the nature of our bonus. There are scout suits with other bonuses. Ummm why don't you check the overall scout bonus and try again.....
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 3850	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:05:00 - [87] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Driftward wrote: Um what equipment? Because you know, scouts only have the one freaking slot. And we're being forced to take a cloak instead of anything else due to the nature of our bonus. There are scout suits with other bonuses. For equipment? No there is not. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 3 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 3854	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:12:00 - [88] - Quote Once again it looks like something that would help the scout to be viable is going to be shafted by those who don't use the suit regardless of how the actual scout community veiws of feels of the subject. Typical, but I'm done fighting against yall, you outnumber us and as such have a heavier impact in the matter I can't be bothered to try and defend something that most of the 'elites' of dust are against simply because we have little say in what happens anyway. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 3 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Gunner Nightingale Imperfects Negative-Feedback 759	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:13:00 - [89] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: Telcontar Dunedain wrote: This game is bad and hasn't improved in the six months since I stopped playing. You should all feel bad for still playing this game. lolaimbot514 You haven't played for six months ... well then how do you know it hasn't improved? And even more important: Why are you still here? Is it a game made by CCP? All the information one needs really. And we aren't really here just kain keeps spamming our good games only skype chat with this stuff and we take it as an opportunity to come in and point and laugh.
Driftward Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 570	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:18:00 - [90] - Quote Also just in case you think I'm all for the proposed changes, you should understand something. I'm not. I made a feedback thread listing in detail why I think that the changes to bonuses for scouts and the addition of cloaks is deterimental in general. Link. And if you really want to see some pissed off threads, check out the scout thread in general discussion (the one that is 327 PAGES at the time of typing this). Scout Registry As a scout community we see the cloak as a pittance in comparison to what we're losing. At BEST, as it currently stands, I'm of the opinion that the scout class is remaining about status quo if not slightly worse off.

Severance Pay Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 995	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:19:00 - [91] - Quote Add my signature to this petition. Firing your weapon while cloaked will cause a tear in space/time. Everyone knows this. We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; For he to-day that sheds his blood with me Shall be my brother
Gunner Nightingale Imperfects Negative-Feedback 760	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:19:00 - [92] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: Being able to not shoot while cloak invalidates the purpose behind it. Cloak is there to give scouts the assassination role, to remain unseen. Requiring scouts to "hold it" or deactivate prior to shooting gimps us more than we are currently. No expert scout would ever even use a cloak. Especially since it "shimmers" more greatly with increased movement speed.....oh wait, aren't scouts the fastest frame in Dust. Scouts continue to get nerfed...even the gal role bonus is getting nerfed...YAY. So why not just make that apply to only when equipping nova knives? Or maintain cloak during any melee action.
Rodd of Nor Nor Clan Combat Logistics 3	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:21:00 - [93] - Quote I don't spend much time on the forums and usually don't throw in my two cents as I don't feel it helps to often. But I must say in this case that I completely agree with this, if firing were allowed while cloaked the game would soon fall into a state where you would have to be using a cloaking device or simply be an easy target the second you stop running. (tanks excluded though with the ability to use equipment think of how many tanks could be destroyed with remote explosives planted by a cloaked player) I really don't feel there is any way to balance a version of cloaking where you can fire still cloaked, it would make a lot of the current combat rolls useless (the ability to take out a groups medic and still get away unseen) and think of the number of people with proto suits that will die to attacks they cant see coming and all that wasted isk....
DISGRUNTLEDev Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 248	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:22:00 - [94] - Quote The problem Kain is that from the stats we know, the scout bonuses are getting nerfed so we can get the bonus to the cloak. All the other suits are getting at least good bonuses, but we have an unknown bonus and you are already trying to nerf it. After a year of steady stealth nerfs to scouts.
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2498	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:22:00 - [95] - Quote Gunner Nightingale wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: [quote=Kain Spero] Being able to not shoot while cloak invalidates the purpose behind it. Cloak is there to give scouts the assassination role, to remain unseen. Requiring scouts to "hold it" or deactivate prior to shooting gimps us more than we are currently. No expert scout would ever even use a cloak. Especially since it "shimmers" more greatly with increased movement speed.....oh wait, aren't scouts the fastest frame in Dust. Scouts continue to get nerfed...even the gal role bonus is getting nerfed...YAY. So why not just make that apply to only when equipping nova knives? Or maintain cloak during any melee action. Honestly, I'm on the fence about melee damage while cloaked and I see that as an issue separate from shooting while cloaked. Those issues can be discussed as well, again I just don't want the specter of shooting while cloaked to fall on Dust like a plague. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Gunner Nightingale Imperfects Negative-Feedback 760	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:23:00 - [96] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: This seems like a whole lot of paranoia over a mechanic that nobody is fully sure how it works. Assuming there is a significant shimmer effect, I see no problem with letting people fire their weapon cloaked, but assuming that the shimmer effect is basically nil, then it should be reworked so that no shots may be fired whilst cloaked. Simple as that. If shimmer exists despite movement then no real problem depending on how visible the shimmer is. IF shimmer exists only upon movement huge problem, makes it the ulitmate campers paradise, just sit in a corner over a high traffic area and rack up free and easy kills.
Surt gods end Demon Ronin 1524	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:23:00 - [97] - Quote Mordecai Sanguine wrote: CPM i hope you will read this post. This is from someone that KNOW what is a cloaking in video games. - Borderlands 2 - Killzone 3 -Fallout 3 and others.... Be able to make ANYTHING that can lead to the ennemy death while cloaked will make it totally OP. First ! cloak is a scout device. NOT an assassin device. Learn the diffrence and try to explain it to CCP please. Scout is meant to grab information about the ennemy and destroy or trap the ennemy intel. And get the objectives while Heavier units in combat suit cover them. So here's : 1 : People must not be able to have their weapon while cloaked they must hold the device in their hand to stay cloaked. 2 : To be able to shoot they must swap weapons (Will make a sound like a flux grenade) OR they can turn it off manually to be quiet. 3 : You can't use any equipements while cloaked and 2sec after the cloak is disabled. 4- After you disabled your cloak (for any reason) everyone can see you on their passive scanners for 1 sec in a radius of 5 meters (avoid shotgun/ Nova knives assassination). 5- Anybody that hurt you disable your cloak (Careful to explosives and lfux) 6- Nobody else than Light Dropsuit (Scouts) must be able to use cloak device. Because it will be a "must have" item and will simply RUIN the game and making it a "crysis" like. And it SUCKS. No assault / heavy / logi must be able to be cloaked it must be a scout exclusive. That was for the drawbacks it NEED to be implemented or it will be Cloak514 for everyone. Now the advantages than nobody talk about and could be implemented to be REALLY useful for the team : 1 : Be cloaked reduce your scanned profile (Db) per 2. You have 36Db ? Now it's 18 while cloaked. Even a focused scanner will have difficulties to scan a cloaked scout. 2 : Walking on ANY equipements in a radisu of 2 meters (hives/remote/uplinks) will destroy them WITHOUT disabled the cloak or any penality. Now you can cut all the ennemy intel without being spoted. And you can defuse all the remote trap on the objectives easily. You're FREAKING USEFUL. 3 : Being cloaked increase your hack speed about 25%, you can hack without disable the cloak. Capture objectives and installation are EASIER and you can escape cloaked before the ennemy has comes to you. Cloak => Run => Hack => Run away : Less than 30sec. 4 : Everybody in the radius of your passive scanner (16m) and which is detected normally now appears in the scanners of ALL YOUR TEAMATES for 5 sec. Rush into them to spot them all. (but carefully !) 5 : If you crouch even if the ennemy is aiming you while cloaked their aim will not tilt "red". Really? Those underline games don't support your "cloak is not assasin" Cause reason being in FPS games... they are. be it resistance, to PS2, to KZ2, KZ3, KZ4. Scout are not passive. This isn't dota.
THE GREY CARDINAL PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY 341	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:27:00 - [98] - Quote It's not always going to be just infantry and vehicles that factor into the outcome of battles; with the advent of scanners, situational awareness became a factor and I've seen many people go on about how lame it is and how it shouldn't be in the game. You wouldn't have to worry about whether a scout could shoot you while cloaked or not if you or someone in your squad had lit up all the red dots. War can't just be concerned with offence and defense, weapons and armor on the battlefield. Knowledge is potentially going to play a bigger part in DUST if the passing examples of CCP Remnant at FF13 AtC are anything to go by. Increased intel on the enemy, like frame size coupled with your line of site is info that can really alter the outcomes of confrontations, if they even happen at all. Or the map scrambling he mentioned, what's it going to be like when the enemy knows your frame size, location and line of site while your looking at white noise in your minimap. My point is that one day things will come that are going to require countermeasures that people will need to spec into if they wish to be able to combat these things. Which brings me back to my feelings on scout. It's not god mode. I'm assuming from the gallente scout bonus that cloaked mercs will show up on scanner so long as it's within its range. So if there are cloaked scouts in the match, you'll need a scanner to combat it in the same way If there are vehicles in the match, you need AV to combat it...and if nor your team have AV, you're kinda SOL. There is no way I won't be able to kill a cloaked scout while i'm scanning as I do. But Scouts ought to retain that ability to have the element of surprise. This element of surprise is akin to the hardeners of tanks that make them god mode for a short while before leaving them weak and vulnerable. A cloaked scout will get a shot or two off on you and he had better hope he kills you with them because soon he'll be visible and weak..and do you think a scout will be doing this on the front line? Killing one person before appearing among beefed up heavies, commandos and assaults? Anyway, at the end of the day, all I care about is that they find a balanced place within the grand scheme of things where it can be used tactfully and fairly in within the rock, scissors, paper of DUST 514 confrontations. I just don't think that kicking up a fuss about this is part of that balance. Electronic Warfare GOD in the making
Gunner Nightingale Imperfects Negative-Feedback 760	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:27:00 - [99] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Gunner Nightingale wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: [quote=Kain Spero] Being able to not shoot while cloak invalidates the purpose behind it. Cloak is there to give scouts the assassination role, to remain unseen. Requiring scouts to "hold it" or deactivate prior to shooting gimps us more than we are currently. No expert scout would ever even use a cloak. Especially since it "shimmers" more greatly with increased movement speed.....oh wait, aren't scouts the fastest frame in Dust. Scouts continue to get nerfed...even the gal role bonus is getting nerfed...YAY. So why not just make that apply to only when equipping nova knives? Or maintain cloak during any melee action. Honestly, I'm on the fence about melee damage while cloaked and I see that as an issue separate from shooting while cloaked. Those issues can be discussed as well, again I just don't want the specter of shooting while cloaked to fall on Dust like a plague. Point is if there is shimmer on movement as it there appears to be then nova knives plus cloak will require intelligent gameplay choices with regards to choosing attack angles and create real stealth gameplay so in that scenario being able to effective get into melee range while cloaked will be the skill aspect of the gameplay, it will still result in cheap kills but mostly on people not paying attention or among individuals out in the cold on their own with noone watching their back.
Driftward Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 576	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:30:00 - [100] - Quote Rodd of Nor wrote: I don't spend much time on the forums and usually don't throw in my two cents as I don't feel it helps to often. But I must say in this case that I completely agree with this, if firing were allowed while cloaked the game would soon fall into a state where you would have to be using a cloaking device or simply be an easy target the second you stop running. (tanks excluded though with the ability to use equipment think of how many tanks could be destroyed with remote explosives planted by a cloaked player) I really don't feel there is any way to balance a version of cloaking where you can fire still cloaked, it would make a lot of the current combat rolls useless (the ability to take out a groups medic and still get away unseen) and think of the number of people with proto suits that will die to attacks they cant see coming and all that wasted isk.... 1. You only get 1 MAYBE 2 shots with full skills and a proto cloak (probably if its balanced right) 2. It takes more than that to kill a person. 3. You are now extremely vulnerable 4. You can't cloak due to it cooling down. 5. Why should proto suits be invulnerable? You spent some ISK, don't run what you can't afford to lose. Not that a std suit should have an easy time to kill you, but at best you get one shot off free, still need 2 more to drop them at least 2 seconds there....how is that any different from now?

cfho83 cfho L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:31:00 - [101] - Quote im with you on this, at least balance everything before adding OP ****
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11771	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:38:00 - [102] - Quote Against the Cloak while shooting as per https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134761&find=unread suggestions on how it should run. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2503	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:40:00 - [103] - Quote DISGRUNTLEDev wrote: The problem Kain is that from the stats we know, the scout bonuses are getting nerfed so we can get the bonus to the cloak. All the other suits are getting at least good bonuses, but we have an unknown bonus and you are already trying to nerf it. After a year of steady stealth nerfs to scouts. I hear you. I really think that idea of making it where scouts are forced to take a cloak to be effective is crazy. A cloak should be a tool in your toolbox and not forced on you to make the scout role effective. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2629	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:41:00 - [104] - Quote This was discussed to death over a year ago.
GRIM GEAR Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 149	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:42:00 - [105] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: I agree that, done poorly, a cloaking mechanic would be terrible for the game. However, we do not have all the numbers and we still have time to cause changes. Once we have the full statistics for the modules and how the mechanics operate, we will be able to generate actual, useful feedback. This thread is a kneejerk reaction, though not unwarranted. I support the notion that R F Gyro had: implement it with firing disallowed and bring in variants/introduce cloaked firing later. Baby steps. There is no kneejerk here. It's just that with how the cloaks function being publicly posted we can talk about this openly with you all since it was previous in NDA hell. The CPM has been adamant that you should not be able to fire while cloaked from the very first time the issue of cloaks was brought up. I agree that R F Gyro's position nails it on the head. Implement with firing disallowed. We can then see the gameplay impact and thoughtfully discuss future baby steps of iteration. Now what's the point of introducing cloaks that you can't fire a weapon without revealing yourself, CCP are better off starting with cloaks that you can fire with while cloaked and if necessary changing/nerfing from there. Seriously what's the point of introducing cloaks that you cannot fire a weapon while cloaked, then changeing it later on so you can fire a weapon while it's cloaked. This whole thread is a complete joke, you are alreadsy trying to nerf the cloak before it has even been implemented shame on you. It's a bird! No it's a plane! Never mind it's just my shotgun in your face!
Shiruba Ryou Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 85	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:42:00 - [106] - Quote Telcontar Dunedain wrote: This game is bad and hasn't improved in the six months since I stopped playing. You should all feel bad for still playing this game. lolaimbot514 You should feel worse still posting on the forums of a game you quit six months ago. That's like me quiting liquor yet still making the trip to the ABC store to see what they have in stock. Lolregretfuladdict514. Gtfo Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fucking fruit salad.
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries Legacy Rising 635	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:45:00 - [107] - Quote If a shot gun is fired once, it should decloak you. That's all I have to say
Gunner Nightingale Imperfects Negative-Feedback 760	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:45:00 - [108] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: This was discussed to death over a year ago. Like CCP has the time to read all those forum posts that basically crowdsourced this game for them.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1520	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:47:00 - [109] - Quote I like that you can shoot. For starters I'm sure high damage guns will remove your cloak so shotguns, and snipers will only get 1 shot off. The scrambler rifle will obviously make a loud noise and running will make you slightly visible. This just leaves Assault weapons. If CCP made if so you can fire off about 3-5 shots I think it would be fine. It would be pretty hard to kill some suits now specially the Caldari and Gallente. And it's not like CCP is going to give scouts a half decent module distribution.
Aizen Intiki Hell's Gate Inc League of Infamy 647	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:48:00 - [110] - Quote No. Assuming that the crystal ball is true, then how it sounds it will go off of a stamina like duration. Just make it use up that stamina. Using equipment should be fine while cloaked, with no penalties, but should give some sort of interference. "Hello, world!" lol, sounds like something a whore lover would say Alt of the great Godin I like chocolate ^___^

Paran Tadec The Hetairoi 1891	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:48:00 - [111] - Quote Shooting while cloaked is terribad. Dont do this. Bittervet Proficiency V thanks logibro!
Oswald Rehnquist 1037	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:49:00 - [112] - Quote Again you guys forgot that scouts are literally tied to the hip to this device, Logi role bonus: extra range to repair tool Logi racial Z : faster healing with the rep tool An equivalent above sucks doesn't it? That logi better be praying for op repair tools because now it can't really do much else when everybody is getting such universal things like insane dps or damage resistance. The cloak being a defensive tool used only to cross open areas is nice, I understand the logic behind it, but having literally all your skill bonuses racial/role in something as limited an utility as crossing open spaces doesn't seem all that great. 1) because not fighting allows you to cross open paths already because people get telescope vision when there are other shooting hostiles around to distract them, 2) its easy to see where the majority of the people are and go around in cover near open areas, 3) the active scanner is a hard counter to the cloak as it stands, and a scanned scout is a dead scout cloaked or not, if you guys play against any solid synchronized corp with a focus it literally ends the scouts game and entirely shuts it down. The way people want cloaks now does not justify the scout having any role or racial bonuses to it because of how limited and how little synchronization people want scouts to function, if you guys got your way, we'd even be worse off with the changes (loss of profile sig bonus for a limited utility cloak), the majority were upset with cloaks even before we found out you could hold a weapon while cloaked, lets not pretend otherwise. TL/DR If front liners get to design cloaks, don't bother designing scouts around cloaks (racial and role), I'm not inclined to be nailed to a sinking ship, by people who have one of the easiest play styles in the game, who have had several FOTM rounds. The lack of regard for the scout is apparent if you guys think that tying the role/racial to a single device in which it performs to your ideal image at all compares to the other bonuses the other suits will be getting. Logi- (1) 100% or 66% cpu/pg free proto equipment, plus one equipment utility Salt- 10% RoF plus massive tank or further damage boost (multiplied by RoF) Com- 1 free non stacking penalty proto damage mod to reach the highest damage % for a particular damage type Sen- 3 major resistances of damage types, one of them being splash in general. Scout- Reduction on a single equipment with their only slot to only be used defensibly to cross open areas. Below 28 dB
Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division Top Men. 521	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:51:00 - [113] - Quote Grenades should work, because when you throw a grenade you don't swap to your gun automatically, there's no 'firing' happening, and it's same as throwing a rock. Under 28db Officially nerfproof (predicting CR nerf February '14) I have a God, His name is Dakka.
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 475	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:52:00 - [114] - Quote I support being able to fire weapons while cloaked. CCP Rouge said that one sniper shot is enough to decloak you so that should be enough. I've played games where they all let you shoot with cloaks. Cloaks are supposed to be like hardeners but for scouts. What type of assassinations can we do if we can't shoot while cloak? Use it to hack objectives? They have 0 dB, so we can't even do that while not being seen. We can still be scanned. Moving presents flickering so two shots and we're dead if we're playing against people who pay attention. I don't want cloaks to be OP, but I don't want it to be UP. Making cloaks deactivate by a few shots seems fair to me.
Surt gods end Demon Ronin 1527	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:53:00 - [115] - Quote I'm down anything done with cloak that is NOT pushing the scout to just RECON. We didn't get names like "GHOSTS, NINJA COWBOYS, OR WRAITHS, cause we knew how to talk on a mic. I wouldn't want scouts becoming the FOTM. And willing to lean back and see about cloaks. But anything that pushes assassination to the back seat is a no-no.
kafurie Axis of Chaos 0	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:55:00 - [116] - Quote why are we fighting about something that really a scout can only use properly (it being high pg and cpu) all other suits are getting buffed too, atleast give scouts 1 defining factor. heaves are getting resistance bounus on top of there recent buff, and the O-mega nerf of sheilds. logis are going to bethe master of equipment (never ending superscans for galente, so anyone clocked will still be seen). and assults get higher ROF, think of the sniping with that. all scouts get is clocking, you guys are allready trying to nerf a suit thats still broken, but why would heaves care anyway.
Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 2639	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:56:00 - [117] - Quote All I have to say the delay between decloak and shooting for scouts better be short as hell. Like, insanely short. I can get within 3m of an enemy without a cloak, fire, and have him turn around and kill me. If I have to decloak with a loud ass noise, wait a second, then fire you will have more scout deaths than before because it will hinder more than it will help. This will be even more worthless since Minjas will be the least stealthy and shittiest with cloaks. I'm okay with having to decloak to fire but it needs to be able to happen fluidly, fast, and natural. The more cumbersome this mechanic is for scouts the more you will be hurting the class. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 91	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:56:00 - [118] - Quote I actually would like a chance to play with it first before actually playing around with before actually passing judgement.
DISGRUNTLEDev Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 249	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:58:00 - [119] - Quote I just played scout in PC (just finished one) and do you know what my job is? Uplink duty. I can't take a proto logi or assault in a long range gun fight, and lol shotguns in that lag. But you know what won't help me? A cloak that lets me travel the vast empty areas of a PC map invisible, I can't carry uplinks if I do that. I get that scouts aren't slayers, but a logi running around with a sniper rifle could do my recon and uplink duty a hell of a lot better. And over the last year, that's what a lot of players have done, because any other class is better than a scout. And this is only going to make it worse.
Surt gods end Demon Ronin 1529	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:59:00 - [120] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: All I have to say the delay between decloak and shooting for scouts better be short as hell. Like, insanely short. I can get within 3m of an enemy without a cloak, fire, and have him turn around and kill me. If I have to decloak with a loud ass noise, wait a second, then fire you will have more scout deaths than before because it will hinder more than it will help. This will be even more worthless since Minjas will be the least stealthy and shittiest with cloaks. I'm okay with having to decloak to fire but it needs to be able to happen fluidly, fast, and natural. The more cumbersome this mechanic is for scouts the more you will be hurting the class. Aye brother. To give them a chance to counter a assassination attempt defeats the purpose of that scout getting up close to you to whisper "turn around" in the first place.

Tech De Ra Electronic Sports League 272	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:01:00 - [121] - Quote Mirroring the kz3 cloak is probably the best way to go Being able to fire while cloaked will be crazy OP if there isnt a hard counter, but if there is a hard counter to it then i doubt that cloaking will have a use outside of pub matches at all light weapons and sidearms should not be able to fire while cloaked, the only exception in my eyes might be the nova knives Melee should be able to be used while cloaked ideally, provided that you decloak when you use it Tech De Ra for CPM1
DISGRUNTLEDev Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 249	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:04:00 - [122] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1702030#post1702030
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2508	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:04:00 - [123] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: All I have to say the delay between decloak and shooting for scouts better be short as hell. Like, insanely short. I can get within 3m of an enemy without a cloak, fire, and have him turn around and kill me in a couple shots. If I have to decloak with a loud ass noise, wait a second, then fire you will have more scout deaths than before because it will hinder more than it will help. This will be even more worthless since Minjas will be the least stealthy and shittiest with cloaks. I'm okay with having to decloak to fire but it needs to be able to happen fluidly, fast, and natural. The more cumbersome this mechanic is for scouts the more you will be hurting the class. This should not be used to merely help a scout cross an open field or cross the street. This needs to help them IN COMBAT as well as out of it. Some really good points. For me the line in the sand is that you have to decloak before you fire. Everything else is up in the air. There just needs to be a firewall between actively cloaking and firing a weapon. I agree it needs to be fluid process, but the line of shooting while cloaked should not be crossed. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 609	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:13:00 - [124] - Quote Baltazar Pontain wrote: Can someone explain me why this topic is so hot discussed? Has CCP delivered some hard facts about cloacking I have missed? If not I suggest to cool down and wait until they have delivered. If yes, can someone post me the link? As someone who has played a lot of Team Fortress 2, the Spy class (with cloak) has consistently been the class with the most balancing issues, so it makes sense to learn from the harsh lessons learned by previous games instead of making the same mistakes. "Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)" GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1477	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:19:00 - [125] - Quote /Signed. /me goes back to KZ:SF where the Scout can melee while cloaked, but not fire any weapon, yet can still dominate. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers!
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2512	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:31:00 - [126] - Quote DISGRUNTLEDev wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1702030#post1702030 Yeah, I definitely see how the cloak on other suits could become a big issue especially when CPU and PG differences are taken into account. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9835	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:36:00 - [127] - Quote Scouts should just receive a straight up 50% reduction to fitting requirements for cloak, and keep their current per level bonus / get a new one. Assault Dropship Montage Incubus Pilot, AV Specialist, Fat Scout DUST addict
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2512	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:37:00 - [128] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Scouts should just receive a straight up 50% reduction to fitting requirements for cloak, and keep their current per level bonus / get a new one. In terms of the Scout role as I whole I would tend to agree. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Oswald Rehnquist 1039	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:40:00 - [129] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Scouts should just receive a straight up 50% reduction to fitting requirements for cloak, and keep their current per level bonus / get a new one. which was my sentiment as well, I have no issues with neutering cloak if the scout wasn't tied to it role and racial for some. We need new racials/role if the cloak is getting nerfed Below 28 dB
Rusty Shallows 734	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:40:00 - [130] - Quote sammus420 wrote: Can we at least try it out before we get all wound up about it? I said the same thing about 1.7 and have ended up regretting it ever since. The Devs only react to stressed repetitive simplistic responses, careful analysis seems wasted. We need to force the Devs to think. Otherwise we will continue to get these lackluster results. As for firing while cloaked No: If mediums frames can do it. Yes: If only Scouts can do it (no Light Frames or future Light Frame Specializations getting on the action). Scouts need a buff and have been waiting for the promised "love" since July of 2013. Nerf it later if it breaks the game. MCC Lounge Lizard Forums > Game Fix the game CCP

jerrmy12 kahoalii The Phoenix Federation 301	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:40:00 - [131] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Scouts should just receive a straight up 50% reduction to fitting requirements for cloak, and keep their current per level bonus / get a new one. They need a slight hp and cpu/pg increase I use a tablet so beware of typos
Admonishment The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 56	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:41:00 - [132] - Quote I noticed the word balance used a lot in this post, where was this "balance" when scouts were forced to go on patch after patch being gimped against mediums able to do the job of a scout better than the scout? Pretty confident most the names on here did not utter a single word against that. Where is the "balance" when someone spends less sp to gain a prototype scanner when scouts have to spend double or triple that amount just to attempt to counter? Scouts have no role its just simply hard mode for people that decided not to do the most common setup and they have been penalized for it ever since. Soon as they get some kind of attention however that's when the "balance" threads start popping up daily lol. I have been asking for months on end why Gallente scout gains a high slot at adv but losses it at proto, when they should just gain a third low slot at adv. Never got a reply. Scouts in general have been gimped for long enough, I guess shooting or knifing someone with perfect accuracy in the back just to have them turn around and hip fire you to death instantly is balanced lol. I also noticed people saying what a scouts role is when they have none, in the description is says assassin/infiltrator but I see people saying they are for intel gathering, I don't see many people playing scout just to gather intel, it would be a very boring and pointless role to do when someone can just equip a scanner and spam that while doing the 360 dance. Scanners took that ability away from scouts since anyone with an equipment slot can equip them. Scouts should be able to effectively do what their description says as a specialty, not what someone that never bothered investing the points into them thinks. I have seen and heard plenty of that enough already. Its been AR/Tank/medium suit 514 before, how about it be balanced game 514 and actually have incentive to use something other than a bricked medium/heavy suit with a combat/rail rifle. Diversity is needed badly in this game, if certain people had their way it would all just be AR variants in the kill feed and its pretty close to that already. Level 5 Proficiency in basket weaving.
DISGRUNTLEDev Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 256	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:42:00 - [133] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Scouts should just receive a straight up 50% reduction to fitting requirements for cloak, and keep their current per level bonus / get a new one. They need a slight hp and cpu/pg increase Now we have to wait another year for a buff! Stop talking about it.
True Adamance Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 5495	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:46:00 - [134] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: It's difficult to pass judgment when no hard numbers are available on cooldown, duration, fire cost, ect. The system sounds similar to Killzone 3 which I actually rather liked, however this is not the same as cloaks are in EVE. For those of you who don't know, most cloaks in EVE operate like this: Movement Speed Reduced by 90% Unable to use any weapons or modules while cloaked Any ship within 2500m will decloak your ship There is a delay after you decloak before you can lock on and use modules. Perhaps add more limitations to the proposed cloaking, such as a movement penalty and excessive cooldown time. Then offer a variant (Covert-Ops?) which does not include movement penalty and a shorter cooldown, but you are unable to fire your weapon until x-seconds after decloaking? The first would benefit snipers and those who need to stay hidden for long periods of time without moving. The latter would benefit those who want to play more of a field support role, but not a combat one. A harsh penalty for Scouts in this game though. Fair analysis though. To a Texan like you, a hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Gunlogi. Reference = ISK
Nazz'Dragg planetary retaliation organisation 23	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:47:00 - [135] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Dear CCP and the Community of Dust 514, I would like it to be made publicly and clearly known that the CPM does not support the ability to fire a weapon while cloaked. If you support this (and even if you don't) I encourage you to post your thoughts so that CCP can hear our voices and change the course away from what would be a game-breaking mechanic. The devil is always in the details, but I think we can all agree that firing while cloaking is a line in the sand that CCP must not cross. /signed Kain Spero of CPM 0 If scouts are getting the TF2 spy clocking devices, heavies should get the pyro heavy flame thrower. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lum_B9Scwo8#t=0m17s I would never of thought about that myself, Thanks.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9837	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:48:00 - [136] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Scouts should just receive a straight up 50% reduction to fitting requirements for cloak, and keep their current per level bonus / get a new one. In terms of the Scout role as I whole I would tend to agree. I think pigeon holing the scout role by tying its performance bonuses only to the cloak is a bad way to go. Personally I'd like to see the pilot suit scrapped, scouts buffed to be more of a skirmisher role, and a new covert ops light frame added which is built from the ground up with cloak in mind. But that's just me. Assault Dropship Montage Incubus Pilot, AV Specialist, Fat Scout DUST addict
Akdhar Saif Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative 165	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:51:00 - [137] - Quote Totally Agree. +1 Signed.
DISGRUNTLEDev Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 257	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:52:00 - [138] - Quote Nazz'Dragg wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Dear CCP and the Community of Dust 514, I would like it to be made publicly and clearly known that the CPM does not support the ability to fire a weapon while cloaked. If you support this (and even if you don't) I encourage you to post your thoughts so that CCP can hear our voices and change the course away from what would be a game-breaking mechanic. The devil is always in the details, but I think we can all agree that firing while cloaking is a line in the sand that CCP must not cross. /signed Kain Spero of CPM 0 If scouts are getting the TF2 spy clocking devices, heavies should get the pyro heavy flame thrower. I'll take it!
Lazy Bass The Generals General Tso's Alliance 47	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:58:00 - [139] - Quote Signed Dust 514 Primera League EU tournament winner Director of The Generals Slayer of Frogs
Benjamin Ciscko The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1170	Posted - 2014.01.10 00:02:00 - [140] - Quote My opinion is cloak should make you virtually invisible you show a shimmer and the and at higher levels your cloak lasts longer and the shimmer visibility decreases. You MUST de cloak before firing, you can use nova knives while cloaked but may not charge them a single hit point of damage deactivates cloak (excluding fall damage). I have no background knowledge on how cloaks will work so some of my recommendations may be in the plan already. Caldari Tanker/Minmatar Assault Forum warrior lvl 1

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6354	Posted - 2014.01.10 00:05:00 - [141] - Quote Check out @Henry_Haphorn's Tweet: https://twitter.com/Henry_Haphorn/status/421427485524627456 Retweet when you have the chance so that CCP can see this. CCP Remnant, take note. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 95	Posted - 2014.01.10 00:09:00 - [142] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: Baltazar Pontain wrote: Can someone explain me why this topic is so hot discussed? Has CCP delivered some hard facts about cloacking I have missed? If not I suggest to cool down and wait until they have delivered. If yes, can someone post me the link? As someone who has played a lot of Team Fortress 2, the Spy class (with cloak) has consistently been the class with the most balancing issues, so it makes sense to learn from the harsh lessons learned by previous games instead of making the same mistakes. Well, if you played enough TF2 you would know that the uncontested problem child of TF2 is the Demoman which has just about been the recipient of almost every type of nerf imaginable, and runners up being the pyro and heavy. The spy has been one of the more balanced classed in TF2, there has never been an imbalance with the spy or the default spy kit (cloak included) but instead with weapons and equip added later on, notably the enforcer(OP), dead ringer (while feigning death, 80% dr that can be maintained indef with ammo, closest to god mode I've ever been in a game PvP, damn near unkillable), saharan spy set(silent cloak) and the ambassador(OP).
Harken Torkal Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 26	Posted - 2014.01.10 00:16:00 - [143] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: All I have to say the delay between decloak and shooting for scouts better be short as hell. Like, insanely short. I can get within 3m of an enemy without a cloak, fire, and have him turn around and kill me in a couple shots. If I have to decloak with a loud ass noise, wait a second, then fire you will have more scout deaths than before because it will hinder more than it will help. GÇª This should not be used to merely help a scout cross an open field or cross the street. This needs to help them IN COMBAT as well as out of it. Some really good points. For me the line in the sand is that you have to decloak before you fire. Everything else is up in the air. There just needs to be a firewall between actively cloaking and firing a weapon. I agree it needs to be fluid process, but the line of shooting while cloaked should not be crossed. Having the "cloaking cortex" equitable and thus having to switch to a weapon to shoot solves the issue: you can switch and be shooting as your cloak dissolves (loud noise or not). The philosophy in EVE used to be "release new features pre-nerfed." That is: release a new feature in such a state that players are not scrambling over each other to get to it. If you release a feature and everyone wants to use it all the time, it's overpowered. If a few adventurous players pick it up and start playing with it, you know you've got it pre-nerfed correctly. Once the feature is working as designed (and common bugs/glitches are sorted out) you can then work on improving the feature. So for example introduce the cloak with a half second decloaking delay (i.e.: from the time you switch weapons to the time pressing the trigger actually causes the weapon to fire), have any interaction decloak the user (e.g.: summoning a vehicle, boarding a vehicle, hacking, activating a repper of any kind), and then work on improved cloak modules which reduce decloaking delay and allow certain actions to be taken while cloaked, such as a non-equip cloak which allows a sniper to aim while cloaked, with a re-cloaking delay after shooting which prevents the sniper simply popping out of cloak to fire, then immediately recloaking. Whether cloaking ends up as a baked-in feature of some suits or not, it should start in a "nerfed" state in which "nobody" will use it. Then gradually improve the utility of the feature until people are using it. If everyone uses it, it's OP.
Mortedeamor 1204	Posted - 2014.01.10 00:44:00 - [144] - Quote CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote: if u are cloaked, u are just that... in stealth mode. being able to do anything aside from moving behind enemy lines undetected will simply cause headaches and issues that can be avoided by actually listening to people now should be just like an active scanner. Personally it should be an innate skill only in scouts, and I could even get on board with it being a part of the suit, not taking up a slot. same rules as a scanner.. has a cooldown period, and you can do nothing except run and jump (and climb) while its activated. ^^ nuff said Im puerto rican we rage deal with it
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2493	Posted - 2014.01.10 00:46:00 - [145] - Quote I figured that it would be a given that firing would stop the cloak. ML Director Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
Kigurosaka Laaksonen Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 75	Posted - 2014.01.10 00:47:00 - [146] - Quote "It's difficult to pass judgment when no hard numbers are available on cooldown, duration, fire cost, ect." I couldn't say one way or another. If only there were a server apart from Tranquility where we could test things like this. A test server, if you will.
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 189	Posted - 2014.01.10 00:49:00 - [147] - Quote I'm not sure I understand why firing from cloak is so game breaking, particularly as we've already been informed that firing will break cloak, there is a (as of yet undisclosed) cool down after the cloak is broken, and a hard counter is already in game through the active scanner? It will only really be useful for engaging a single suit unaware, and even then it's not an insta win button as most suits take multiple shots to kill. For a bad scout, it means they'll be able to ambush one red without getting killed before they have a chance. In a average scouts hands, it may mean going from being able to ambush one straggler at a time, to being able to ambush two in a group with a chance of taking both. Good scouts don't need the assistance so I doubt very much you'll see a difference there, they're already stringing together kills without being seen. The main use for the cloak will be to hide, stationary, in facilities while you let the enemy team go past, or move between locations with a little extra protection (no chevron and health is great, but the shimmer will still be there). Useful for being able to watch for when to set off REs and counter hack, or cross sniper alley, but it's not going to let you take down a 3-4 players with guns blazing. Also not sure about the cloaked sniper QQ? Sitting in cloak to shoot is a waste. If you're doing it right, no one knows where you are before you shoot, and if I'm shooting you from 300m out, you won't see me after I start shooting either. It's much better used as a defensive device to move between sniping locations, or as an aid for counter sniping to give you a chance to get a shot off before they pop you. From the description given, the cloak leans towards being a defensive device, not an offensive one. Maybe take a couple of deep breaths and think about the implementation before condemning it to the nerf bin?
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 189	Posted - 2014.01.10 00:58:00 - [148] - Quote Harken Torkal wrote: Whether cloaking ends up as a baked-in feature of some suits or not, it should start in a "nerfed" state in which "nobody" will use it. Then gradually improve the utility of the feature until people are using it. If everyone uses it, it's OP. Please don't take this the wrong way, but get ******. Unless you're going to recommend that equipment be nerfed so hard that the new logi bonuses are useless and light weapons are nerfed so hard that assaults don't want to use them, you're just gimping the single most gimped suit in the game because you're worried that there might possibly be a problem in an implementation you haven't seen, based on incomplete information.
Radar R4D-47 0uter.Heaven 298	Posted - 2014.01.10 00:58:00 - [149] - Quote Surt gods end wrote: I liked KZ3 but I also like KZ4 approach to not letting cloaked scout shoot. instead that "assassination tool" is in the form of a OHK knife. Then let cloaked scout have be able to KNIFE. CLOAKING IS USED IN A MAJORITY OF FPS AS A ASSASSINATION TOOL. Look at the description of scout and find the word. If your saying there is no place in dust for OHK, then that a whole other avenue. Along with then a no place for ASSASSIN. Scouts by description tho are not just recon, but assassins. like in any other fps. Agreed with this. Make the cloak intense for CPU pg. Only thing a mini scout carrying a cloak could fit is a sidearm (before core skills 5) so then you can be an assassain and get 1 kill per life. But some things don't get 1shotted by nova knives even uncloaked I will hit someone will a full charge proficiency 5 isha knives and the 1st swipe won't kill them. I believe if this route is taken would be highly effective and balanced.
Free Beers Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1749	Posted - 2014.01.10 01:08:00 - [150] - Quote Honestly, I have zero faith that this will be nothing but a game breaker. I dont understand why Team True Grit works with the community and got changes to PC and the most successful content in dust is FW. Why must you design dust with your fingers stuck in your ears ccp? I honestly think this is where CCP Rouge needs to answer to the community. Is he going to step in and do the right thing or are we still all a riding a captainless ship. [CCP]FoxFour> STFU beers[CCP]FoxFour> Erm [CCP]FoxFour> I mean[CCP]FoxFour> shit [CCP]FoxFour> you were defending me

DISGRUNTLEDev Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 262	Posted - 2014.01.10 01:17:00 - [151] - Quote Free Beers wrote: [CCP]FoxFour> STFU beers
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 1977	Posted - 2014.01.10 01:40:00 - [152] - Quote Free Beers wrote: Honestly, I have zero faith that this will be nothing but a game breaker. I dont understand why Team True Grit works with the community and got changes to PC and the most successful content in dust is FW. Why must you design dust with your fingers stuck in your ears ccp? I honestly think this is where CCP Rouge needs to answer to the community. Is he going to step in and do the right thing or are we still all a riding a captainless ship. I see where you are coming from, but we haven't even had an opportunity to test cloaks the fact sony doesn't want a test server means that we're going to be a beta, then again then again this sort of stuff will always bring panic and QQ. A-Teams win Battles B-Teams win Campaigns C-Teams win Wars
fawkuima juggalo Eternal Beings 828	Posted - 2014.01.10 01:44:00 - [153] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Dear CCP and the Community of Dust 514, I would like it to be made publicly and clearly known that the CPM does not support the ability to fire a weapon while cloaked. If you support this (and even if you don't) I encourage you to post your thoughts so that CCP can hear our voices and change the course away from what would be a game-breaking mechanic. The devil is always in the details, but I think we can all agree that firing while cloaking is a line in the sand that CCP must not cross. /signed Kain Spero of CPM 0 signed. +1... i more then agree with this, in all of the FPS i've played with a cloak ability the key to balancing that cloak is not having the ability to fire while enabled.... now this isn't to say that they shouldn't be able to melee, but i think they should flash everytime they try and strike with a melee weapon..... Thank you cpm for publicly standing against the absurd principle of firing while cloaked. ---OFFICIAL LOGISTICS REGISTRY BOARD/ H.O.F.----
Slightly-Mental Planetary Research and Investments 36	Posted - 2014.01.10 01:50:00 - [154] - Quote Totally Agree. +1 Signed. * still think cloaks should be for scouts only
BMSTUBBY KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 603	Posted - 2014.01.10 01:54:00 - [155] - Quote Dear CCP, When will we be getting kill streaks? LOL BatttleDuty 514. Meh, F2P Lobby Shooter BattleDuty 514 Working as intended.
J4yne C0bb Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 168	Posted - 2014.01.10 02:02:00 - [156] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: After giving it much thought, I now agree with you. Make the cloak so that it at least requires you to hold the cloak trigger in your hand in order to maintain cloak. If you swap around, you lose cloak. Yes, this. Cloaking should only allow you to get into an advantageous position to begin firing, not to be able to fire while hidden, even for a moment. It should work similar to the RE detonator, where you have to have it in hand to use and activate it, and you de-cloak if the equipment is not in hand. As we all know (or should), you can easily hit L2 quickly to switch from your equipment to your primary weapon, so if the cloak were to operate as outlined above, this would allow a merc to de-cloak quickly and begin firing -- a significant advantage, and a welcome new twist to gameplay. However, if we allowed firing from cloak, a merc could get position, switch to his primary and be able to line up his first shot, presumably to the head. This is an OP advantage, which personally I think borders on game-breaking. No to firing under cloak. Min Logi \| aka Punch R0ckgroin, Fatsuit \| aka Thor Thundercock, Gal Logi
Faquira Bleuetta 0uter.Heaven 146	Posted - 2014.01.10 02:03:00 - [157] - Quote Brokerib wrote: I'm not sure I understand why firing from cloak is so game breaking, particularly as we've already been informed that firing will break cloak, there is a (as of yet undisclosed) cool down after the cloak is broken, and a hard counter is already in game through the active scanner? It will only really be useful for engaging a single suit unaware, and even then it's not an insta win button as most suits take multiple shots to kill. For a bad scout, it means they'll be able to ambush one red without getting killed before they have a chance. In a average scouts hands, it may mean going from being able to ambush one straggler at a time, to being able to ambush two in a group with a chance of taking both. Good scouts don't need the assistance so I doubt very much you'll see a difference there, they're already stringing together kills without being seen. The main use for the cloak will be to hide, stationary, in facilities while you let the enemy team go past, or move between locations with a little extra protection (no chevron and health is great, but the shimmer will still be there). Useful for being able to watch for when to set off REs and counter hack, or cross sniper alley, but it's not going to let you take down a 3-4 players with guns blazing. Also not sure about the cloaked sniper QQ? Sitting in cloak to shoot is a waste. If you're doing it right, no one knows where you are before you shoot, and if I'm shooting you from 300m out, you won't see me after I start shooting either. It's much better used as a defensive device to move between sniping locations, or as an aid for counter sniping to give you a chance to get a shot off before they pop you. From the description given, the cloak leans towards being a defensive device, not an offensive one. Maybe take a couple of deep breaths and think about the implementation before condemning it to the nerf bin? wisdom
Faquira Bleuetta 0uter.Heaven 146	Posted - 2014.01.10 02:06:00 - [158] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Dear CCP and the Community of Dust 514, I would like it to be made publicly and clearly known that the CPM does not support the ability to fire a weapon while cloaked. If you support this (and even if you don't) I encourage you to post your thoughts so that CCP can hear our voices and change the course away from what would be a game-breaking mechanic. The devil is always in the details, but I think we can all agree that firing while cloaking is a line in the sand that CCP must not cross. /signed Kain Spero of CPM 0 so u want to make cloak useless than ur skill in dust .get gud scrub
Hawkings Greenback Red Star. EoN. 88	Posted - 2014.01.10 02:11:00 - [159] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Hawkings Greenback wrote: Firing any weapon or using equipment should cause the cloak to deactivate. Also I would like to see a cloak destabilise if something gets close. Basically the same kind of principle as EVE. The threshold really needs to be cloak deactivates and then you can fire. How quickly that process happens can be up for discussion, but for me the threshold needs to be that the cloak is dropped before any damage can happen. I knew I should have been clearer in my post. Having a cloak active negates the use of any equipment or weapon even if it's in your hands. Trying to use them while cloaked should drop the cloak whilst the weapon or equipment will still not be able to function ( cloak causes weapon to be rendered useless due to spatial distortion or whatever ). The skill 'cloaking' can reduce the effect / length of time of the distortion, once the cloak is down any weapon or equipment can be used. The skill for me in having a cloak is the ability to get a superior position and the timing of the de cloak to ambush or flank. The risk being getting it wrong gets you killed due to delay in firing but the reward is a wtf moment for the victim. An interesting note, would the de cloak restrict incoming fire as we'll as outgoing fire ????? I am not sure what that length of time should be, it's definetly a tricky proposition and one that will require a great deal of thought and certainly some iteration. Logi For Life-Mini Logi suit wearer & proud Forum Lurker-level unknown Do clones dream of Dolly the sheep
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2498	Posted - 2014.01.10 02:20:00 - [160] - Quote J4yne C0bb wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: After giving it much thought, I now agree with you. Make the cloak so that it at least requires you to hold the cloak trigger in your hand in order to maintain cloak. If you swap around, you lose cloak. Yes, this. Cloaking should only allow you to get into an advantageous position to begin firing, not to be able to fire while hidden, even for a moment. It should work similar to the RE detonator, where you have to have it in hand to use and activate it, and you de-cloak if the equipment is not in hand. As we all know (or should), you can easily hit L2 quickly to switch from your equipment to your primary weapon, so if the cloak were to operate as outlined above, this would allow a merc to de-cloak quickly and begin firing -- a significant advantage, and a welcome new twist to gameplay. However, if we allowed firing from cloak, a merc could get position, switch to his primary and be able to line up his first shot, presumably to the head. This is an OP advantage, which personally I think borders on game-breaking. No to firing under cloak. That is the best idea I've seen so far. The cloak is a piece of equipment that you hold. You could give different cloaks a variety of cool down mechanics, sort of like an active scanner. Some have a period where you stay cloaked for 1 second after switching away from equipment but suffer from a 10 second cool down period. Others could go in and out of cloak at quicker intervals. I'd say that a second equipment slot is a must. Or give one of the suits two equipment slots and no sidearm. I don't see how it's possible to have a fully viable stealth scout if he couldn't be stealthy while killing and placing uplinks. ML Director Eve Toon - Raylan Scott

mollerz Minja Scouts 1684	Posted - 2014.01.10 02:25:00 - [161] - Quote That's a pretty nice idea if you want a useless nerfed flaylock of a cloak. I hope CCP sticks to their guns, and you med suits just have to HTFU. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Flint Beastgood III GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 439	Posted - 2014.01.10 02:49:00 - [162] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: I agree with Kain Spero. As a possible rework, I suggest the cloaking cortex must be held in your hands for it to be active. If you were to switch and put a weapon or other equipment in your hand, that would put the cloaking cortex away and thus you would no longer be cloaked. And as a replacement for the Caldari scout bonus who would be affected by this, perhaps change it to 5% cloaking duration per level. ^ This sounds good to me. Gÿó +¦ +¦ Gÿó Trained Skills
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2534	Posted - 2014.01.10 03:14:00 - [163] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: J4yne C0bb wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: After giving it much thought, I now agree with you. Make the cloak so that it at least requires you to hold the cloak trigger in your hand in order to maintain cloak. If you swap around, you lose cloak. Yes, this. Cloaking should only allow you to get into an advantageous position to begin firing, not to be able to fire while hidden, even for a moment. It should work similar to the RE detonator, where you have to have it in hand to use and activate it, and you de-cloak if the equipment is not in hand. As we all know (or should), you can easily hit L2 quickly to switch from your equipment to your primary weapon, so if the cloak were to operate as outlined above, this would allow a merc to de-cloak quickly and begin firing -- a significant advantage, and a welcome new twist to gameplay. However, if we allowed firing from cloak, a merc could get position, switch to his primary and be able to line up his first shot, presumably to the head. This is an OP advantage, which personally I think borders on game-breaking. No to firing under cloak. That is the best idea I've seen so far. The cloak is a piece of equipment that you hold. You could give different cloaks a variety of cool down mechanics, sort of like an active scanner. Some have a period where you stay cloaked for 1 second after switching away from equipment but suffer from a 10 second cool down period. Others could go in and out of cloak at quicker intervals. I'd say that a second equipment slot is a must. Or give one of the suits two equipment slots and no sidearm. I don't see how it's possible to have a fully viable stealth scout if he couldn't be stealthy while killing and placing uplinks. Really good stuff. The cloak as a piece of equipment that if you switch off it decloaks really does seem good. I agree that scout suits with more then 1 equipment slot sound like they need to be a thing. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
mollerz Minja Scouts 1689	Posted - 2014.01.10 03:15:00 - [164] - Quote really bad stuff actually. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
HiddenBrother Days of Ruin 24	Posted - 2014.01.10 03:19:00 - [165] - Quote The cloak hasn't been seen in action; yet there is a petition to alter the way it works. What? Ruin.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2500	Posted - 2014.01.10 03:21:00 - [166] - Quote mollerz wrote: really bad stuff actually. Have you offered up some feedback? Not being a smart ass, just trying to see where you were at on this issue. ML Director Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1660	Posted - 2014.01.10 03:32:00 - [167] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Dear CCP and the Community of Dust 514, I would like it to be made publicly and clearly known that the CPM does not support the ability to fire a weapon while cloaked. If you support this (and even if you don't) I encourage you to post your thoughts so that CCP can hear our voices and change the course away from what would be a game-breaking mechanic. The devil is always in the details, but I think we can all agree that firing while cloaking is a line in the sand that CCP must not cross. /signed Kain Spero of CPM 0 I support this. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Vell0cet SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 761	Posted - 2014.01.10 05:03:00 - [168] - Quote This all depends on the TTK issue for me. If TTK remains the same and shooting first is pretty much the only important variable in who will win, then I support this, but with a major caveat. You can decloak by pulling the trigger on your weapon. It won't shoot and you'd have some delay before being able to fire (something like 0.5 - 1.5 secs), but you can at least ADS, line up your shot while you're decloaking instead of f*cking around with the radial equipment menu. If TTK is increased to where it should be (slightly longer than 1.4 -1.5, shorter than 1.3) then I think shooting while cloaked should stay. Slightly off topic: Logi equipment bonuses should NOT apply to fitting cloaks. They should still be able to fit them, but it should require major sacrifices in the fit like with assaults, commandos, etc. Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
IgniteableAura Pro Hic Immortalis 480	Posted - 2014.01.10 05:23:00 - [169] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Gunner Nightingale wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: [quote=Kain Spero] Being able to not shoot while cloak invalidates the purpose behind it. Cloak is there to give scouts the assassination role, to remain unseen. Requiring scouts to "hold it" or deactivate prior to shooting gimps us more than we are currently. No expert scout would ever even use a cloak. Especially since it "shimmers" more greatly with increased movement speed.....oh wait, aren't scouts the fastest frame in Dust. Scouts continue to get nerfed...even the gal role bonus is getting nerfed...YAY. So why not just make that apply to only when equipping nova knives? Or maintain cloak during any melee action. Honestly, I'm on the fence about melee damage while cloaked and I see that as an issue separate from shooting while cloaked. Those issues can be discussed as well, again I just don't want the specter of shooting while cloaked to fall on Dust like a plague. Melee damage.....yet another worthless idea. The only kills that come from melee is from the fixed glitch. You want to melee a medium frame 20 times to kill them....reeallllll stealthy. PHI Recruitment or PHIsh Tank in game Twitch
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9850	Posted - 2014.01.10 05:24:00 - [170] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Really good stuff. The cloak as a piece of equipment that if you switch off it decloaks really does seem good. I agree that scout suits with more then 1 equipment slot sound like they need to be a thing. All my likes. I want that second equipment slot back. Assault Dropship Montage Incubus Pilot, AV Specialist, Fat Scout DUST addict

Hawkings Greenback Red Star. EoN. 88	Posted - 2014.01.10 05:52:00 - [171] - Quote Slightly-Mental wrote: Totally Agree. +1 Signed. * still think cloaks should be for scouts only If everyone is worried about cloaks on other frames, then why not have the cov.ops/assassin scout as a separate suit with the cloak built in. This way current light frames can be iterated on based on current feedback ( lol CCP style ) and the cloak can be balanced within its own right. Also that way you can make a extremely PG/CPU hungry cloak for other frames that leaves little room for top end fittings or any fittings at all Logi For Life-Mini Logi suit wearer & proud Forum Lurker-level unknown Do clones dream of Dolly the sheep
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2543	Posted - 2014.01.10 06:18:00 - [172] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: This all depends on the TTK issue for me. If TTK remains the same and shooting first is pretty much the only important variable in who will win, then I support this, but with a major caveat. You can decloak by pulling the trigger on your weapon. It won't shoot and you'd have some delay before being able to fire (something like 0.5 - 1.5 secs), but you can at least ADS, line up your shot while you're decloaking instead of f*cking around with the radial equipment menu. If TTK is increased to where it should be (slightly longer than 1.4 -1.5, shorter than 1.3) then I think shooting while cloaked should stay. Slightly off topic: Logi equipment bonuses should NOT apply to fitting cloaks. They should still be able to fit them, but it should require major sacrifices in the fit like with assaults, commandos, etc. I agree with your sentiments about fumbling with the radial menu, but ADSing and lining up a shot (think sniper rifle) would be one of the reasons to go for switching to a weapon causing a decloak. Totally agree about the logi equipment bonus not applying to the cloak. Hopefully that is something that can be commented on by CCP Wolfman or CCP Remnant. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Kalante Schiffer Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 484	Posted - 2014.01.10 06:24:00 - [173] - Quote where i come from cloaking destroyed the game. it is a very risky thing to have in an FPS if not done correctly. Even if done correctly it is such a cheap move, to me people that use cloaks are worse than taggers and laarkers from resistance fall of man.
Kharga Lum Xeno Labs Security 215	Posted - 2014.01.10 06:28:00 - [174] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Dear CCP and the Community of Dust 514, I would like it to be made publicly and clearly known that the CPM does not support the ability to fire a weapon while cloaked. If you support this (and even if you don't) I encourage you to post your thoughts so that CCP can hear our voices and change the course away from what would be a game-breaking mechanic. The devil is always in the details, but I think we can all agree that firing while cloaking is a line in the sand that CCP must not cross. /signed Kain Spero of CPM 0 The cloak in Eve prohibits the pilots from doing anything other then move around, this mechanic works well. The cloak even takes a weapon slot...slots are a little different in eve. I often wonder if the Dust devs have ever played Eve. Eve has a decade of experience getting it right and yet many aspects of Dust feel as though they've never seen the game.
Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 987	Posted - 2014.01.10 06:46:00 - [175] - Quote The OP is a bad poster, probably complains about how CCP doesn't communicate well enough and then posts that kind of a blooper. We already know that firing decreases the cloak's foo-level, and it should be obvious that this is an easily tweakable parameter. So basically you guys are sperging because it might take more than one shot of an assault rifle to deplete the cloak, and then go from there to assuming you can empty a clip into an enemy while cloaked. CSM needs to get better at communicating so that we don't get threadnaughts.
dust badger SOUND Mercs Of Sound Mind 366	Posted - 2014.01.10 07:57:00 - [176] - Quote Rasatsu wrote: The OP is a bad poster, probably complains about how CCP doesn't communicate well enough and then posts that kind of a blooper. We already know that firing decreases the cloak's foo-level, and it should be obvious that this is an easily tweakable parameter. So basically you guys are sperging because it might take more than one shot of an assault rifle to deplete the cloak, and then go from there to assuming you can empty a clip into an enemy while cloaked. The CPM needs to get better at communicating so that we don't get threadnaughts. The main concern i believe people have are with weapons that you dont need to fire more than one shot, head shot with a shotty or a scram pistol while cloak will near enough kill you depending on your fit and if they dont kill you they decloak and shoot you once more before you have time to react.
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 64	Posted - 2014.01.10 08:08:00 - [177] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Against the Cloak while shooting as per https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134761&find=unread suggestions on how it should run. I can't say I agree with all your points, especially the forced shutdown around OMS targets or players. I think CCPs design sounds reasonable, with the one exception that you need to hold the cortex for the cloak to be active.
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 808	Posted - 2014.01.10 08:55:00 - [178] - Quote Firing while cloaked is a dumb idea. End of discussion. Mercenary Clone of Dennie Fleetfoot CEO of DUST University
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2545	Posted - 2014.01.10 10:57:00 - [179] - Quote dust badger wrote: Rasatsu wrote: The OP is a bad poster, probably complains about how CCP doesn't communicate well enough and then posts that kind of a blooper. We already know that firing decreases the cloak's foo-level, and it should be obvious that this is an easily tweakable parameter. So basically you guys are sperging because it might take more than one shot of an assault rifle to deplete the cloak, and then go from there to assuming you can empty a clip into an enemy while cloaked. The CPM needs to get better at communicating so that we don't get threadnaughts. The main concern i believe people have are with weapons that you dont need to fire more than one shot, head shot with a shotty or a scram pistol while cloak will near enough kill you depending on your fit and if they dont kill you they decloak and shoot you once more before you have time to react. Pretty much this. Most weapons have little to no cycle time from one shot to the next. A smooth decloak animation would take at a minimum amount of time, so as the cloak is dropping the bullets that are going to kill your target when you fire from a cloak are already in the air. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
SILENTSAM 69 SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION 611	Posted - 2014.01.10 10:57:00 - [180] - Quote Against this idea? This was one of the best parts. The devil is in the details, as you said. From how it sounded to me you would only get a few shots off before it decloaked you. Was I getting the wrong impression? I thought it was good to see the Scouts getting some help finally. Thought I might even try out the Scout class again. CCP put some good balance in the cloak, and made it quite a new thing compared to most FPS cloaks. I like that standing still makes you completely invisible. It should, but I also like that the cross hair will always turn red. I also love that moving will make you somewhat visible. I can't wait to see what effect they use. I also love that the active scanner will still find a cloaked person, and that they must still beat the scan, making this mainly for Scouts. If it turns out the cloak was meant to last for a long time, and that shooting didn't effect it much, then I could see cause for concern, but I feel giving them a shot or two wouldn't be a big deal for a Scout. I love the idea that I will now have to watch for the coak effect of a moving scout, and for my cross hair to go red with no one visible in front of me.

SILENTSAM 69 SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION 611	Posted - 2014.01.10 10:59:00 - [181] - Quote I gues I just think it is too early to tell. Lets try it for a month or so and see if its broken. They will obviously fix it if it is.
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 64	Posted - 2014.01.10 11:04:00 - [182] - Quote This has probably been mentioned earlier in this thread, but why not make the forced vs manual decloaking sound unique? I.e: - cloak field active with cortex in hand. Press fire to deactivate = quiet sound which only can be heard if enemy is very close by. Vs - cloak field active with cortex in hand. Switch to weapon (without manually deactivating!) = loud distinct sound, possibly with increased recovery time. With the quick weapon / equipment switching we currently have in-game, this will allow cloaked people to get a drop of somebody, but with a penalty. It will also give an incentive to manually deactivate the cloak if you play the sneaky hacker, and not want to be heard. Two play styles with different benefits and drawbacks.
Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 988	Posted - 2014.01.10 11:44:00 - [183] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Pretty much this. Most weapons have little to no cycle time from one shot to the next. A smooth decloak animation would take at a minimum amount of time, so as the cloak is dropping the bullets that are going to kill your target when you fire from a cloak are already in the air. Why should it be smooth? You could equally well have the cloak crackle and shimmer with every shot, with the depletion being as instantaneous an effect as explosions.
iceyburnz Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 1283	Posted - 2014.01.10 11:55:00 - [184] - Quote I agree. But I also hate clumsy controls. NO TO SWITCHING. Your cloaked. You pull your trigger, you decloak. Then you can fire. There should probably be a delay until you can fire. "We spent so much time huddling inside buildings with tanks circling outside like a swarm of sharks around bait"
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2545	Posted - 2014.01.10 11:58:00 - [185] - Quote iceyburnz wrote: I agree. But I also hate clumsy controls. NO TO SWITCHING. Your cloaked. You pull your trigger, you decloak. Then you can fire. There should probably be a delay until you can fire. Yeah, so basically your saying you can switch to any equipment or weapon you want but you pull the trigger to deactivate the cloak? Sounds good. I would add if you have a weapon ADSing should also have the same effect as pulling the trigger to deactivate the cloak. Same as hitting the grenade button. Hit grenade button. Cloak Deactivates. HIt again and cook or throw nade as normal. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Kushmir Nadian Valor Coalition 344	Posted - 2014.01.10 14:25:00 - [186] - Quote C'mon CCP..... we discussed why, why not and how this was bad at length in the thread going over the mechanics. Not a bitter vet, but i'll be back when we have 10 game modes, jets, all racial suits/wpns and EVE has a reason to care.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2180	Posted - 2014.01.10 14:38:00 - [187] - Quote Wait for it CCP puts cloaking in and ignores everyone and you can fire for several seconds when cloaked Intelligence is OP
NextDark Knight Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 119	Posted - 2014.01.10 14:43:00 - [188] - Quote Just saying, I'd like to see what CCP put together before we change it. This is why we need to be able to link up to SISI server. Lets see what happens with this cloaked firing, the recharge on the cloak, it might not be as crazy as you think. If it's anything like Knova Knives then your fears are misplaced. Forge Changes needed Officer Splash 3.0, Proto 2.7 Advanced 2.5 Standard 2.1.
Kigurosaka Laaksonen Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 93	Posted - 2014.01.10 14:45:00 - [189] - Quote "link up to SISI" A thousand times, this.
Takron Nistrom Tinfoil Hatz 171	Posted - 2014.01.10 14:47:00 - [190] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Dear CCP and the Community of Dust 514, I would like it to be made publicly and clearly known that the Imperfects do not support the ability to fire a weapon while cloaked. If you support this (and even if you don't) We need you to post our thoughts so that CCP can hear our voices and change the course away from what would be an Imperfects crippling mechanic. The devil is always in the details, but I think we can all agree that firing while cloaking is a line in the sand that CCP must not cross Because it will make our game suffer and a tryhard corp like us cannot have that. /signed Kain Spero of CPM 0 Thats what I heard. GÇ£Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)GÇ¥ GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace

IgniteableAura Pro Hic Immortalis 480	Posted - 2014.01.10 14:48:00 - [191] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: iceyburnz wrote: I agree. But I also hate clumsy controls. NO TO SWITCHING. Your cloaked. You pull your trigger, you decloak. Then you can fire. There should probably be a delay until you can fire. Yeah, so basically your saying you can switch to any equipment or weapon you want but you pull the trigger to deactivate the cloak? Sounds good. I would add if you have a weapon ADSing should also have the same effect as pulling the trigger to deactivate the cloak. Same as hitting the grenade button. Hit grenade button. Cloak Deactivates. HIt again and cook or throw nade as normal. Adding any sort of cooldown time would likely invalidate the cloak. If you are getting shot at while cloaked and try to return fire you will have to wait the cooldown to fire...which in a scout suit is already about 0.2secs TTK. With any sort of clumsy controls or cooldowns on cloak it will likely not even be utilized, scouts already know how to stay hidden and wait for their time to strike. Adding additional penalties to that situation is not going to improve scouts or make cloak useful to them. My assumptions on cloak is that they will likely be active for less than 20 seconds, if they could be indefinitely ON with no shimmer on scouts then I would not mind the proposed mechanics of cooldowns and not shooting while cloaked. But I highly doubt that's the case. PHI Recruitment or PHIsh Tank in game Twitch
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2554	Posted - 2014.01.10 14:51:00 - [192] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: Just saying, I'd like to see what CCP put together before we change it. This is why we need to be able to link up to SISI server. Lets see what happens with this cloaked firing, the recharge on the cloak, it might not be as crazy as you think. If it's anything like Knova Knives then your fears are misplaced. Cloaked while firing is a bad mechanic, and doing a "let's see how it works out" with an obviously bad and broken mechanic would be irresponsible. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6366	Posted - 2014.01.10 15:12:00 - [193] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: Just saying, I'd like to see what CCP put together before we change it. This is why we need to be able to link up to SISI server. Lets see what happens with this cloaked firing, the recharge on the cloak, it might not be as crazy as you think. If it's anything like Knova Knives then your fears are misplaced. Cloaked while firing is a bad mechanic, and doing a "let's see how it works out" with an obviously bad and broken mechanic would be irresponsible. I have to agree with this. Maken Tosch wrote: It's better to have the cloak pre-nerfed rather than have it overnerfed later on down the road. This way, the cloak won't feel OP but it won't feel useless either. This is my way of trying to protect an aspect of the game that I feel passionate about much like how I felt about the Nova Knives. You don't hear anyone crying "nerf the knives" because the knives came pre-nerfed and thus many people regarded them as a balanced weapon that just need a slight tweak such as allowing sprints while charging. If knives came with all the bells-n-whistles from the start, then it was likely that everyone would call out "nerf" and then the weapon will truly become useless with an overnerf later on down the road. This is what I'm trying to accomplish with the cloak now. If it comes in pre-nerfed, very few people will ever complain about it and then it will be safe from the nerf bat. Kain Spero, Heinrich, me, and many others are trying to do you all a solid by going down the pre-nerf route. It's safer for the cloak so that it won't be completely useless due to unwarranted fear of the cloak. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
NextDark Knight Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 120	Posted - 2014.01.10 15:16:00 - [194] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: Just saying, I'd like to see what CCP put together before we change it. This is why we need to be able to link up to SISI server. Lets see what happens with this cloaked firing, the recharge on the cloak, it might not be as crazy as you think. If it's anything like Knova Knives then your fears are misplaced. Cloaked while firing is a bad mechanic, and doing a "let's see how it works out" with an obviously bad and broken mechanic would be irresponsible. Show me the gameplay on how it is bad. These guys are slow moving, gimped HP and damage scout suites from CCP description. CCP needs a big push for SISI connection, I don't care if it takes up another 8 gigs on my PS3. Forge Changes needed Officer Splash 3.0, Proto 2.7 Advanced 2.5 Standard 2.1.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6366	Posted - 2014.01.10 15:19:00 - [195] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: Kain Spero wrote: iceyburnz wrote: I agree. But I also hate clumsy controls. NO TO SWITCHING. Your cloaked. You pull your trigger, you decloak. Then you can fire. There should probably be a delay until you can fire. Yeah, so basically your saying you can switch to any equipment or weapon you want but you pull the trigger to deactivate the cloak? Sounds good. I would add if you have a weapon ADSing should also have the same effect as pulling the trigger to deactivate the cloak. Same as hitting the grenade button. Hit grenade button. Cloak Deactivates. HIt again and cook or throw nade as normal. Adding any sort of cooldown time would likely invalidate the cloak. If you are getting shot at while cloaked and try to return fire you will have to wait the cooldown to fire...which in a scout suit is already about 0.2secs TTK. With any sort of clumsy controls or cooldowns on cloak it will likely not even be utilized, scouts already know how to stay hidden and wait for their time to strike. Adding additional penalties to that situation is not going to improve scouts or make cloak useful to them. My assumptions on cloak is that they will likely be active for less than 20 seconds, if they could be indefinitely ON with no shimmer on scouts then I would not mind the proposed mechanics of cooldowns and not shooting while cloaked. But I highly doubt that's the case. I would very much prefer something like having two kinds of cloaks. Maken Tosch wrote: Standard Cloak (can fit on all suit classes and tiers) CPU: 250 PG: 60 Cooldown Upon Deactivation: 30 Seconds Cloak Stability Rating while Moving: 4 (moderate-high shimmer) Cloak Stability Rating while Sprinting: 2 (high shimmer) Bonuses when fitted on Scout: 80% reduction on CPU/PG usage and a +3 Cloak Stability Rating for moving and sprinting. Covert Ops Cloak (can only be fitted on specialty Covert Ops Scout or Prototype Scout) CPU: 350 PG: 60 Cooldown: 15 seconds Cloak Stability Rating while Moving: 10 (no shimmer) Cloak Stability Rating while Sprinting: 8 (very low shimmer) Bonus when fitted on Prototype Scout: 80% reduction on CPU/PG usage Bonus when fitted on Covert Ops Specialty Scout: 80% reduction on CPU/PG usage with 25% reduction to cooldown timer Skill Prerequisite for Standard Cloak: Cloaking Equipment Skill Book Level 1 ( 5% reduction to cooldown timer per level ) Skill Prerequisites for Covert Ops Cloak: Cloaking Equipment Skill Book Level 5 ( 5% reduction to cooldown timer per level ) Cloaking Equipment Proficiency Skill Book Level 1 ( 3% reduction to cooldown timer per level ) NOTE: Must first train up to [Racial] Scout Level 5 before being able to train towards the Covert Ops scout. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6366	Posted - 2014.01.10 15:25:00 - [196] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: Kain Spero wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: Just saying, I'd like to see what CCP put together before we change it. This is why we need to be able to link up to SISI server. Lets see what happens with this cloaked firing, the recharge on the cloak, it might not be as crazy as you think. If it's anything like Knova Knives then your fears are misplaced. Cloaked while firing is a bad mechanic, and doing a "let's see how it works out" with an obviously bad and broken mechanic would be irresponsible. Show me the gameplay on how it is bad. These guys are slow moving, gimped HP and damage scout suites from CCP description. CCP needs a big push for SISI connection, I don't care if it takes up another 8 gigs on my PS3. Halo does have a bit of a flaw with the cloak. The cloak mechanic in Halo is pretty good for now, but still has one flaw. Two actually. 1. When used with a DMR, you only decloak slightly and thus not be noticed after every shot. And since this is a single-shot weapon, you're cloak fully recovers after every shot. The only clue you get as to where the shots are coming from is the bullet trails. In Dust 514, there are very few bullet trails. 2. Promethean Vision makes cloaking useless in Halo 4. If you have the same mechanic in Dust 514, many people will ask for an overnerf just like how people QQed about the laser rifle and Mass Driver. It will get nerfed into the ground and won't recover until at least 2-3 updates later. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Lady MDK Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 54	Posted - 2014.01.10 15:29:00 - [197] - Quote Cloak equipment should be selected to remain cloaked. guns should not function even if you swap to them for seconds afterwards, make up some reason - there is some distortion field that screws up firing systems as a hangover of using the cloak. Only attacks available immediately are melee. Should knifes be usable straight afterwards? maybe at some level but they don't have full power as the same distortion from the cloak disrupts plasma blades? so maybe with reduced damage until cool down delay is over. DEVS - EVE have cloaky balance to some degree as only certain ships can lock you following a de-cloak and some with a reduction to the sensor realignment needed following a de-cloak. If you put a cloak on any old ship you cant target for a small ice age. Dust is a much faster gameplay but do you want people dying to invisible foes..? really? Anyone getting annoyed by reading of the above post should consider the following. I don't care so neither should you :)
Cymek Omnius Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 19	Posted - 2014.01.10 15:29:00 - [198] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Dear CCP and the Community of Dust 514, I would like it to be made publicly and clearly known that the CPM does not support the ability to fire a weapon while cloaked. If you support this (and even if you don't) I encourage you to post your thoughts so that CCP can hear our voices and change the course away from what would be a game-breaking mechanic. The devil is always in the details, but I think we can all agree that firing while cloaking is a line in the sand that CCP must not cross. /signed Kain Spero of CPM 0 I think you should be able to fire while cloaked. The mechanic works fine in Eve as you appear right after you attack. So no, we do not all agree on YOUR line in the sand. Having to use your keyboard or mouse to appear then attack is too many movements. A scout will be shredded even more doing so. Do not forget the Gal Logi bonuses coming so 3 out of 4 scouts will all appear on HUD when out of cloak. You are not an objective representative when you try to sway people to your opinion while you ask for the players feedback.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6366	Posted - 2014.01.10 15:33:00 - [199] - Quote Cymek Omnius wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Dear CCP and the Community of Dust 514, I would like it to be made publicly and clearly known that the CPM does not support the ability to fire a weapon while cloaked. If you support this (and even if you don't) I encourage you to post your thoughts so that CCP can hear our voices and change the course away from what would be a game-breaking mechanic. The devil is always in the details, but I think we can all agree that firing while cloaking is a line in the sand that CCP must not cross. /signed Kain Spero of CPM 0 I think you should be able to fire while cloaked. The mechanic works fine in Eve as you appear right after you attack. You need to play Eve more often. In Eve Online, you can't attack at all while cloaked. You have to decloak first and only Covert Ops ships have the option of immediately attacking after decloaking. All other ships suffer a targeting delay. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Beck Weathers Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 253	Posted - 2014.01.10 15:36:00 - [200] - Quote Off topic but what should the caldari scouts bonus be if we take this away? Aso im all for having to hold it in your hands, then switching to a weapon deactivates it.

Cymek Omnius Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 19	Posted - 2014.01.10 15:37:00 - [201] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Cymek Omnius wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Dear CCP and the Community of Dust 514, I would like it to be made publicly and clearly known that the CPM does not support the ability to fire a weapon while cloaked. If you support this (and even if you don't) I encourage you to post your thoughts so that CCP can hear our voices and change the course away from what would be a game-breaking mechanic. The devil is always in the details, but I think we can all agree that firing while cloaking is a line in the sand that CCP must not cross. /signed Kain Spero of CPM 0 I think you should be able to fire while cloaked. The mechanic works fine in Eve as you appear right after you attack. You need to play Eve more often. In Eve Online, you can't attack at all while cloaked. You have to decloak first and only Covert Ops ships have the option of immediately attacking after decloaking. All other ships suffer a targeting delay. I admit it has been awhile since I played Eve. In Eve you at least have some buffer and ttk in this game is a joke. I still hold in my opinion scouts should fire cloaked then appear after the first shot.
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 1467	Posted - 2014.01.10 15:40:00 - [202] - Quote I think it should work similar to the active scanner. Once deactivated the merc has to wait for the module to finish the cycle before anything except movement can be done. The uncloak cycle should last around 3 seconds and higher tier cloaks and SP placement changing the decloak cycle time. Cloaks are tools to be used to help sneak and infiltrate not a win buttons for suits. Let any suit where a cloak with lower tier cloaks changing movement speed more than higher tier. Scout only cloaks isn't my favorite idea and I don't think it would be as much fun as all suits being able to use them. GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride." Hunter S. Thompson
Cymek Omnius Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 21	Posted - 2014.01.10 15:47:00 - [203] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: Just saying, I'd like to see what CCP put together before we change it. This is why we need to be able to link up to SISI server. Lets see what happens with this cloaked firing, the recharge on the cloak, it might not be as crazy as you think. If it's anything like Knova Knives then your fears are misplaced. Cloaked while firing is a bad mechanic, and doing a "let's see how it works out" with an obviously bad and broken mechanic would be irresponsible. Are you asking for peoples opinion or are you trying to talk them into what YOU want?
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6368	Posted - 2014.01.10 15:49:00 - [204] - Quote Beck Weathers wrote: Off topic but what should the caldari scouts bonus be if we take this away? Aso im all for having to hold it in your hands, then switching to a weapon deactivates it. This is how I think it should be in regards to bonuses to each racial scout. Amarr Scout: Bonus to Cooldown Timer Caldari Scout: Bonus to Active Timer Length Gallente Scout: Bonus to Shimmer Reduction Minmatar Scout: Bonus to Sprint Speed while cloaked OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1329	Posted - 2014.01.10 15:59:00 - [205] - Quote I propose a more... reasonable, plan. Here goes. 1. As a contingency, have code readily available that will disallow firing weapons while cloaked. 2. Release 1.8 with cloak firing enabled, give it a try for a week or two. 3. If it is deemed OP by the community, hotfix it with the aforementioned code. If it actually turns out to be balanced, leave it in. 4. ???? 5. Profit. Yours Truly, Reginald Fizzer94 Delafontaine III, Esquire
Aqil Aegivan The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 261	Posted - 2014.01.10 17:00:00 - [206] - Quote Just to play devil's advocate, much of the equipment in Dust suffers from an over-simplified set of mechanics. The active scanner is a great example of this. Its overly simple behaviour means that it is either UP and no one uses it or passive scanning skills are nerfed into the ground and the scanner becomes a complete necessity. If cloaks are overly simplified as a knee jerk reaction (as considered as the CPM's position is most of the community can't make the same claim) then the potential cost is a situation where they're either useless or godly. If we reduce this down to an "Invisibility switch" it's going to need to be near total undetectability before anyone will touch it. I completely agree that a module all scouts feel like they need is bad but a module no one will touch is just as bad. Firing while cloaked will be swapped for a whole set of other problems. That being said I'm not a fan of cloaked firing, I'm just wondering what we can put in its place to help us balance the viability of stealth as a strategy. If we can better dynamically control the cost rather than its power that should help us to find a viable niche for cloaks. I'd recommend tying cloak effectiveness to existing scout suit strengths in order to better control its usefulness. Aside from no firing while cloaked I'd like to see it tied into suit profile. Cloak activation and duration should hinge on suit profile and consequently we'd see extensive/expensive profile damps on medium frames who want to run a cloak which would benefit scouts in future balance based fitting cost decisions. A stealth medium should be possible but it should suck in comparison to a scout (like a TAR trying to compete with a RR). If in the future we could get dynamic suit scan profiles (profile increased by shooting for example) that would make the balancing efforts for this equipment even easier. Tbh scanning needs a redesign anyway and cloaks should probably be a part of that. Short of that let's avoid firing cloaked by all means but we should put something in its place to help balance the incentives and costs of using it.
Driftward Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 589	Posted - 2014.01.10 17:29:00 - [207] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: dust badger wrote: Rasatsu wrote: The OP is a bad poster, probably complains about how CCP doesn't communicate well enough and then posts that kind of a blooper. We already know that firing decreases the cloak's foo-level, and it should be obvious that this is an easily tweakable parameter. So basically you guys are sperging because it might take more than one shot of an assault rifle to deplete the cloak, and then go from there to assuming you can empty a clip into an enemy while cloaked. The CPM needs to get better at communicating so that we don't get threadnaughts. The main concern i believe people have are with weapons that you dont need to fire more than one shot, head shot with a shotty or a scram pistol while cloak will near enough kill you depending on your fit and if they dont kill you they decloak and shoot you once more before you have time to react. Pretty much this. Most weapons have little to no cycle time from one shot to the next. A smooth decloak animation would take at a minimum amount of time, so as the cloak is dropping the bullets that are going to kill your target when you fire from a cloak are already in the air. Ummm have you ever tried to run a shotgun? Seriously. Try one out. Then tell me that I can one shot anything more than a standard suit or a really weak ass medium. Then try to tell me that the cycle time from one shot to the next is little to nothing. Also, maybe you should also try and pick up a scout suit and tell me what a huge advantage we have. But unfortunately that might require you to also not play in a medium frame. Whoops. Not a single scout has made anything but disparaging comments toward your idea. Maybe that should be a clue? Perhaps this is needed? Especially if, as you yourself have said, these new bonuses tying us to the cloak go through.
Free Beers Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1752	Posted - 2014.01.10 17:31:00 - [208] - Quote I still say people that want to cloak and shoot are bad players that just want free kills. I play scout on my other toon and the idea of scouts being cloaky campers disgusts me. Maybe ccp can try and think of ways to make scouts better instead of putting all their eggs in the cloak basket. For the love of all things holy dont make scouts just a gimmicky suit. [CCP]FoxFour> STFU beers[CCP]FoxFour> Erm [CCP]FoxFour> I mean[CCP]FoxFour> shit [CCP]FoxFour> you were defending me
Vespasian Andendare Subsonic Synthesis RISE of LEGION 555	Posted - 2014.01.10 19:11:00 - [209] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: Just saying, I'd like to see what CCP put together before we change it. This is why we need to be able to link up to SISI server. Lets see what happens with this cloaked firing, the recharge on the cloak, it might not be as crazy as you think. If it's anything like Knova Knives then your fears are misplaced. Cloaked while firing is a bad mechanic, and doing a "let's see how it works out" with an obviously bad and broken mechanic would be irresponsible. You're under the assumption--that you're passing off as fact--that firing under cloak is "an obviously bad and broken mechanic." The fact that we know virtually nothing about the way the cloak will operate, and yet you are somehow certain that it is "bad and broken," really undermines your credibility. >> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! <<
Cooper Eudaemon DUST University Ivy League 41	Posted - 2014.01.10 19:40:00 - [210] - Quote I'll sign on to this. Being able to fire while cloaked guarantees you a free kill, unless you are just terrible. While that doesn't sound too bad at first, the more I think about it, the more I see how badly it would unbalance things. Actually, I made a post here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134875 about how CCP needs to fix things before they release something new to break things further. Death is a learning experience. I just wish I wasn't such a slow learner. >.<

Mako LandSharkX Liberum Sapiens Xenodochi 20	Posted - 2014.01.10 19:48:00 - [211] - Quote /signed while the idea does sound fun to use-I wouldn't like to see the game turn into a swarm of cloaked scout snipers/charged scrabmlers/etc run around and line up head shots while cloaked. Cloaks that don't allow you to use weapons under cloak effects will still make scouts far more deadly with melee and positional advantage than they are now. I mainly want to avoid rampant 1 shot ranged kills while cloaked with snipers and scramblers. For this reason I align myself with many who want the (active) cloak to work just like active scanners right now. That way you coudln't head shot while cloaked or even line up a shot with a weapon then de-cloak and do same thing. You have to put away the device and switch, then wait for a cooldown before you can hide/resume invisible camping.
DISGRUNTLEDev Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 274	Posted - 2014.01.10 20:00:00 - [212] - Quote Free Beers wrote: I still say people that want to cloak and shoot are bad players that just want free kills. I play scout on my other toon and the idea of scouts being cloaky campers disgusts me. Maybe ccp can try and think of ways to make scouts better instead of putting all their eggs in the cloak basket. For the love of all things holy dont make scouts just a gimmicky suit. We're a gimmicky suit now! We can hide from scanners and still be speedy. Medium frames can do one or the other better than we can, and some can do both better than we can. The major problem scouts have with this petition is that our bonus is now only cloaks, and a racial gimmick, and you're trying to take it away. You have to understand that if the cloak doesn't work when it's deployed, this is going to be a major nerf to an already undesirable suit. A buff to a piece of equipment that doesn't work? How pissed would logis be if their bonus was to needles and they only worked 30% of the time? Oh, wait, the logi has some thing else going for it. Hiding is all we do. Why are you trying to make it even harder to do?
Shadow of War88 0uter.Heaven 139	Posted - 2014.01.10 20:02:00 - [213] - Quote Cloaks are a joke especially in a time when balance is already far from perfect. Poor AV players who have spent millions of skill points can barely tickle a militia tanks shield. Scouts still suffer greatly, unable to beat focused scanners. If anything make cloaks a scout only feature and definitely do not allow the user to open fire without breaking the cloak.
Revelations 514 Red Star. EoN. 143	Posted - 2014.01.10 22:14:00 - [214] - Quote Driftward wrote: Kain Spero wrote: dust badger wrote: Rasatsu wrote: The OP is a bad poster, probably complains about how CCP doesn't communicate well enough and then posts that kind of a blooper. We already know that firing decreases the cloak's foo-level, and it should be obvious that this is an easily tweakable parameter. So basically you guys are sperging because it might take more than one shot of an assault rifle to deplete the cloak, and then go from there to assuming you can empty a clip into an enemy while cloaked. The CPM needs to get better at communicating so that we don't get threadnaughts. The main concern i believe people have are with weapons that you dont need to fire more than one shot, head shot with a shotty or a scram pistol while cloak will near enough kill you depending on your fit and if they dont kill you they decloak and shoot you once more before you have time to react. Pretty much this. Most weapons have little to no cycle time from one shot to the next. A smooth decloak animation would take at a minimum amount of time, so as the cloak is dropping the bullets that are going to kill your target when you fire from a cloak are already in the air. Ummm have you ever tried to run a shotgun? Seriously. Try one out. Then tell me that I can one shot anything more than a standard suit or a really weak ass medium. Then try to tell me that the cycle time from one shot to the next is little to nothing. Also, maybe you should also try and pick up a scout suit and tell me what a huge advantage we have. But unfortunately that might require you to also not play in a medium frame. Whoops. Not a single scout has made anything but disparaging comments toward your idea. Maybe that should be a clue? Perhaps this is needed? Especially if, as you yourself have said, these new bonuses tying us to the cloak go through. This is the most accurate post I have read so far. Me speaking from experience as a long time shotgun scout
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 1081	Posted - 2014.01.10 22:43:00 - [215] - Quote I want to see what they've got in mind before I start petitioning ccp.
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 202	Posted - 2014.01.10 23:09:00 - [216] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Cloaked while firing is a bad mechanic, and doing a "let's see how it works out" with an obviously bad and broken mechanic would be irresponsible. I'm still yet to see a reasonable explanation for why it is 'an obviously bad and broken mechanic'. All it's been is alot of talk about how other implementations have been bad, conjecture based on incomplete information, and alot of non scouts claiming to be helping out by pushing for a pre-nerfing our core mechanic. My full response here. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1702679#post1702679
mollerz Minja Scouts 1716	Posted - 2014.01.10 23:20:00 - [217] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: mollerz wrote: really bad stuff actually. Have you offered up some feedback? Not being a smart ass, just trying to see where you were at on this issue. You'll be happy to know we've talked about this at length in the scout thread (You know which one) as well as put up my own thread about it. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 2718	Posted - 2014.01.10 23:23:00 - [218] - Quote Firing while cloaked didn't break Halo Reach or Halo 4. (some other things arguably do, but not that) You simply had to introduce an additional counter-balance to it or two. Fast movement made you much more visible, and anytime you were nearby a cloaked opponent your radar went crazy and put you on alert. It was like being invisible while banging a bunch of pots and pans together. You could fire while cloaked, but it made you very visible for a short amount of time. It muted all but the highest pitched sounds while it was activated, so you were effectively deaf. Movement also drained that cloaks energy reserve. Yet with all of these disadvantages together, you were able to use any weapon you liked while cloaked. And it was indeed very balanced.
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2574	Posted - 2014.01.10 23:46:00 - [219] - Quote DISGRUNTLEDev wrote: Free Beers wrote: I still say people that want to cloak and shoot are bad players that just want free kills. I play scout on my other toon and the idea of scouts being cloaky campers disgusts me. Maybe ccp can try and think of ways to make scouts better instead of putting all their eggs in the cloak basket. For the love of all things holy dont make scouts just a gimmicky suit. We're a gimmicky suit now! We can hide from scanners and still be speedy. Medium frames can do one or the other better than we can, and some can do both better than we can. The major problem scouts have with this petition is that our bonus is now only cloaks, and a racial gimmick, and you're trying to take it away. You have to understand that if the cloak doesn't work when it's deployed, this is going to be a major nerf to an already undesirable suit. A buff to a piece of equipment that doesn't work? How pissed would logis be if their bonus was to needles and they only worked 30% of the time? Oh, wait, the logi has some thing else going for it. Hiding is all we do. Why are you trying to make it even harder to do? Two wrongs don't make a right. Just because CCP has put so much weight on the cloak for the proposed scout suit bonuses doesn't mean that we should throw our hands up in the air and let a broken mechanic like shooting while cloaked be introduced to the game. The fact that scouts are trying to be fixed by making them have cloak bonuses is silly to begin with. A scout with a cloak should be an option available to a scout for how they fit their suit and not the only viable option. The way it seems right now cloaks will be something available to all suits and that means the problems that would go along with being able to shoot while cloaked. Again, if you really think you would only be able to make use of a cloak if you can shoot while it's active then you need to take a step back and really examine the battlefield advantages of being visually invisible in an FPS that relies so heavily on visual combat. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Vell0cet SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 767	Posted - 2014.01.10 23:54:00 - [220] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Vell0cet wrote: This all depends on the TTK issue for me. If TTK remains the same and shooting first is pretty much the only important variable in who will win, then I support this, but with a major caveat. You can decloak by pulling the trigger on your weapon. It won't shoot and you'd have some delay before being able to fire (something like 0.5 - 1.5 secs), but you can at least ADS, line up your shot while you're decloaking instead of f*cking around with the radial equipment menu. If TTK is increased to where it should be (slightly longer than 1.4 -1.5, shorter than 1.3) then I think shooting while cloaked should stay. Slightly off topic: Logi equipment bonuses should NOT apply to fitting cloaks. They should still be able to fit them, but it should require major sacrifices in the fit like with assaults, commandos, etc. I agree with your sentiments about fumbling with the radial menu, but ADSing and lining up a shot (think sniper rifle) would be one of the reasons to go for switching to a weapon causing a decloak. Totally agree about the logi equipment bonus not applying to the cloak. Hopefully that is something that can be commented on by CCP Wolfman or CCP Remnant. My hope is that cloaked sniping would help snipers get out of the redline and snipe from positions in the middle of the map. Forcing them to deal with scope sway every time they decloak (or not even be able to use their scope while cloaked, relaying intel to their squadmates) would probably be discouraging enough to mean that most snipers will just stick to heavy frames from the redline. Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea

Surt gods end Demon Ronin 1548	Posted - 2014.01.10 23:55:00 - [221] - Quote Then make it so that first shot cancels the cloak. not mutiple shots. First shot from any gun cancels the cloak. it's not rocket science. But if you have to switch cloak off to kill, then it MUST BE INSTANTANEOUS. Other wise you negate the assassination. And there is NO counter in any FPS game for that. Nor should there be. That's the reward for the scout to be able to get within breathing space of you to smell a fart.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6380	Posted - 2014.01.10 23:55:00 - [222] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Firing while cloaked didn't break Halo Reach or Halo 4. (some other things arguably do, but not that) You simply had to introduce an additional counter-balance to it or two. Fast movement made you much more visible, and anytime you were nearby a cloaked opponent your radar went crazy and put you on alert. It was like being invisible while banging a bunch of pots and pans together. You could fire while cloaked, but it made you very visible for a short amount of time. It muted all but the highest pitched sounds while it was activated, so you were effectively deaf. Movement also drained that cloaks energy reserve. Yet with all of these disadvantages together, you were able to use any weapon you liked while cloaked. And it was indeed very balanced. Which is why I said that cloak in halo is done mostly right. There are just so many counters to it in the game. Unfortunately I think it has too many counters. Particularly the promethean vision. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2575	Posted - 2014.01.11 00:54:00 - [223] - Quote Surt gods end wrote: Then make it so that first shot cancels the cloak. not mutiple shots. First shot from any gun cancels the cloak. it's not rocket science. But if you have to switch cloak off to kill, then it MUST BE INSTANTANEOUS. Other wise you negate the assassination. And there is NO counter in any FPS game for that. Nor should there be. That's the reward for the scout to be able to get within breathing space of you to smell a fart. Except then you have first shots from cloaked Thales and invisible shotguns in the corners. In regards to switching off the cloak to kill, my only line in the sand regarding that is that the killing part doesn't occur at the same time as being cloaked. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Surt gods end Demon Ronin 1551	Posted - 2014.01.11 01:25:00 - [224] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Surt gods end wrote: Then make it so that first shot cancels the cloak. not mutiple shots. First shot from any gun cancels the cloak. it's not rocket science. But if you have to switch cloak off to kill, then it MUST BE INSTANTANEOUS. Other wise you negate the assassination. And there is NO counter in any FPS game for that. Nor should there be. That's the reward for the scout to be able to get within breathing space of you to smell a fart. Except then you have first shots from cloaked Thales and invisible shotguns in the corners. In regards to switching off the cloak to kill, my only line in the sand regarding that is that the killing part doesn't occur at the same time as being cloaked. A first shot from a SNIPER will kill you before you see him. Same with close up blast from the back from a shotty. Those things are here now kain. But as seeing at how KZ3 went into KZ4 with cloaking, I'm willing to compromise with the deactivating cloak only as long as it does not turn into a "counter" for the assassination. I also don't see anything wrong with making nova knives being the only weapon you can use while cloaked, and deactivated after use. Come one ccp, don't be embarrassed to copy.
Shion Typhon Intara Direct Action Caldari State 358	Posted - 2014.01.11 01:26:00 - [225] - Quote Surt gods end wrote: Then make it so that first shot cancels the cloak. not mutiple shots. First shot from any gun cancels the cloak. it's not rocket science. But if you have to switch cloak off to kill, then it MUST BE INSTANTANEOUS. Other wise you negate the assassination. And there is NO counter in any FPS game for that. Nor should there be. That's the reward for the scout to be able to get within breathing space of you to smell a fart. I really seriously recommend going and playing an Infiltrator in Planetside 2 where you need to manually disable cloaks before firing. The shenanigans you can accomplish are amazing, you don't need to fire while cloaked. The VAST majority of PVP games that allow cloaked alpha strikes, suck balls. If you don't know this you haven't played enough other games. Ask any MMO player what they think about cloaked damage.
Flambario Steelhammer United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 8	Posted - 2014.01.11 01:48:00 - [226] - Quote My thoughts on this topic are easy. Let the player chose his approach. When he activate the cloaks he still keeps the cloak module in his hand. RP: So he can keep an eye on the status and can make inputs if needed. If he decided to take out something else he can but the cloak needs more energy. So your idea to be prepared for a firefight gives you less time in cloak. If you actively ends the cloak, the cloak goes to a recasttimer with no way to interrupt it. But you are ready to fight from the moment you take out your gun. If you use your other stuff you may hold in the hand you are decloaked!! The collapse of the field gives a loud noise, the cloak get its recasttimer, and your suit is clearly visible for some seconds for the people around you when the are skilled in detection. So you can go in the corner and decloak and then start the fight normal or you can get a first strike but you are informing everybody near you that you are an easy target
Surt gods end Demon Ronin 1552	Posted - 2014.01.11 02:05:00 - [227] - Quote Shion Typhon wrote: Surt gods end wrote: Then make it so that first shot cancels the cloak. not mutiple shots. First shot from any gun cancels the cloak. it's not rocket science. But if you have to switch cloak off to kill, then it MUST BE INSTANTANEOUS. Other wise you negate the assassination. And there is NO counter in any FPS game for that. Nor should there be. That's the reward for the scout to be able to get within breathing space of you to smell a fart. I really seriously recommend going and playing an Infiltrator in Planetside 2 where you need to manually disable cloaks before firing. The shenanigans you can accomplish are amazing, you don't need to fire while cloaked. The VAST majority of PVP games that allow cloaked alpha strikes, suck balls. If you don't know this you haven't played enough other games. Ask any MMO player what they think about cloaked damage. Well this. I only play FPS games (and horror games) which is where I'm coming from as regards to cloaking. No matter how you slice it, Dust is a FPS. It plays as a FPS. And when you start ignoring too many staples and mechanics of what makes a FPS fun.. well you get dust. (And the tank fiasco) Dust will always be reviewed and judged as a FPS, no matter what console or rig it's on. I know some ladies and blokes that play mmo games. Here and in RL. But I never really asked about their game. Maybe I will.
ECHO PACK GamersForChrist Orion Empire 80	Posted - 2014.01.11 02:31:00 - [228] - Quote People are making this sound WAY.... OP. I would agree if the cloak was fully invisible while firing and moving but it's not.If a player moves while cloaked they will be slightly visible and still appear in your reticule. Also the cloak goes away after 1-6 shots definitely not enough to kill someone. But Majority of the people are jumping to conclusion without proper thinking. When you shoot your cloak goes away. when you move you are still invisible but you can still be seen.
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2576	Posted - 2014.01.11 02:33:00 - [229] - Quote Surt gods end wrote: Shion Typhon wrote: Surt gods end wrote: Then make it so that first shot cancels the cloak. not mutiple shots. First shot from any gun cancels the cloak. it's not rocket science. But if you have to switch cloak off to kill, then it MUST BE INSTANTANEOUS. Other wise you negate the assassination. And there is NO counter in any FPS game for that. Nor should there be. That's the reward for the scout to be able to get within breathing space of you to smell a fart. I really seriously recommend going and playing an Infiltrator in Planetside 2 where you need to manually disable cloaks before firing. The shenanigans you can accomplish are amazing, you don't need to fire while cloaked. The VAST majority of PVP games that allow cloaked alpha strikes, suck balls. If you don't know this you haven't played enough other games. Ask any MMO player what they think about cloaked damage. Well this. I only play FPS games (and horror games) which is where I'm coming from as regards to cloaking. No matter how you slice it, Dust is a FPS. It plays as a FPS. And when you start ignoring too many staples and mechanics of what makes a FPS fun.. well you get dust. (And the tank fiasco) Dust will always be reviewed and judged as a FPS, no matter what console or rig it's on. I know some ladies and blokes that play mmo games. Here and in RL. But I never really asked about their game. Maybe I will. Planetside 2 is really more FPS then anything else. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 2718	Posted - 2014.01.11 02:45:00 - [230] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Surt gods end wrote: Shion Typhon wrote: Surt gods end wrote: Then make it so that first shot cancels the cloak. not mutiple shots. First shot from any gun cancels the cloak. it's not rocket science. But if you have to switch cloak off to kill, then it MUST BE INSTANTANEOUS. Other wise you negate the assassination. And there is NO counter in any FPS game for that. Nor should there be. That's the reward for the scout to be able to get within breathing space of you to smell a fart. I really seriously recommend going and playing an Infiltrator in Planetside 2 where you need to manually disable cloaks before firing. The shenanigans you can accomplish are amazing, you don't need to fire while cloaked. The VAST majority of PVP games that allow cloaked alpha strikes, suck balls. If you don't know this you haven't played enough other games. Ask any MMO player what they think about cloaked damage. Well this. I only play FPS games (and horror games) which is where I'm coming from as regards to cloaking. No matter how you slice it, Dust is a FPS. It plays as a FPS. And when you start ignoring too many staples and mechanics of what makes a FPS fun.. well you get dust. (And the tank fiasco) Dust will always be reviewed and judged as a FPS, no matter what console or rig it's on. I know some ladies and blokes that play mmo games. Here and in RL. But I never really asked about their game. Maybe I will. Planetside 2 is really more FPS then anything else. Last I checked Halo was an FPS as well. CCP's approach seems to mirror Halo's cloak the closest, and it was definitely not broken in that game. So why not simply push them to mirror that version of it? Give it natural drawbacks. Radar blindness, audio deafness, the works. When you have that much crap to deal with, a little alpha from invisibility isn't that big of a deal.

jerrmy12 kahoalii The Phoenix Federation 320	Posted - 2014.01.11 02:47:00 - [231] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Surt gods end wrote: Shion Typhon wrote: Surt gods end wrote: Then make it so that first shot cancels the cloak. not mutiple shots. First shot from any gun cancels the cloak. it's not rocket science. But if you have to switch cloak off to kill, then it MUST BE INSTANTANEOUS. Other wise you negate the assassination. And there is NO counter in any FPS game for that. Nor should there be. That's the reward for the scout to be able to get within breathing space of you to smell a fart. I really seriously recommend going and playing an Infiltrator in Planetside 2 where you need to manually disable cloaks before firing. The shenanigans you can accomplish are amazing, you don't need to fire while cloaked. The VAST majority of PVP games that allow cloaked alpha strikes, suck balls. If you don't know this you haven't played enough other games. Ask any MMO player what they think about cloaked damage. Well this. I only play FPS games (and horror games) which is where I'm coming from as regards to cloaking. No matter how you slice it, Dust is a FPS. It plays as a FPS. And when you start ignoring too many staples and mechanics of what makes a FPS fun.. well you get dust. (And the tank fiasco) Dust will always be reviewed and judged as a FPS, no matter what console or rig it's on. I know some ladies and blokes that play mmo games. Here and in RL. But I never really asked about their game. Maybe I will. Planetside 2 is really more FPS then anything else. Last I checked Halo was an FPS as well. CCP's approach seems to mirror Halo's cloak the closest, and it was definitely not broken in that game. So why not simply push them to mirror that version of it? Give it natural drawbacks. Radar blindness, audio deafness, the works. When you have that much crap to deal with, a little alpha from invisibility isn't that big of a deal. You know that really obvious blue when somebody spawns and moves? Thats im guessing our cloak, its useless I use a tablet so beware of typos
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 770	Posted - 2014.01.11 04:24:00 - [232] - Quote no to cloak on anything but a specialised covert ops scout suit. give it bonus to knives and charges, cloak duration, and damage sustained before decloak (mini gets 2 sidearms and no extra charges skill) no shimmer while standing still, can walk for low shimmer effect. sprint will deactivate cloak will be gradually decloaked within 5m los (if you are in cover you won't decloak) of any enemy or their equipment or when taking damage can charge knifes while cloaked but must decloak before attacking with any weapon fittings would be 1 sidearm,2 equip. (no lights or grenades) similar to commando it would have little fitting options at standard and at proto it would have: min 2/0/2/0/2/1 amar 1/0/1/0/2/2 cal 2/0/1/0/2/2 gal 0/0/1/0/2/3 cloak should be permanent until decloaked and hold "X" amount of charges cannot cloak while shields are depleted or taking damage (basicly you have to be out of combat to cloak, shield recharge kick in is a good indication as it kicks in quite fast) with all this scouts have specific roles to fill such as setting RE traps inside enemy occupied areas, dropping tactical uplinks or sneaking in ammo to trapped friendlies. they also have the role of assassination but at the cost of having to be extra vigilant of where they are and how they plan to escape after they decloak and do the deed. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
TunRa NEW OMENS 354	Posted - 2014.01.11 04:26:00 - [233] - Quote Pre-nerfing? Anyways isn't the rule you can shoot your gun but after x amount of damage and or x amount of shoots you un-cloak? Didn't the details say if you shoot a sniper rifle you imminently un-cloak? Are you afraid that extra 5 seconds of not seeing the enemy is going to cause you to die and loose your proto suit? Thanks CCP Foxfour
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 770	Posted - 2014.01.11 04:28:00 - [234] - Quote TunRa wrote: Pre-nerfing? Anyways isn't the rule you can shoot your gun but after x amount of damage and or x amount of shoots you un-cloak? Didn't the details say if you shoot a sniper rifle you imminently un-cloak? Are you afraid that extra 5 seconds of not seeing the enemy is going to cause you to die and loose your proto suit? in 1 sec of firing from the cloak your going to lose your proto suit and thats the issue. it will not work with the low ttk we have https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
agent caron DUST University Ivy League 6	Posted - 2014.01.11 05:08:00 - [235] - Quote I agree Signed
Denchlad 7 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 52	Posted - 2014.01.11 07:43:00 - [236] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Firing while cloaked didn't break Halo Reach or Halo 4. (some other things arguably do, but not that) You simply had to introduce an additional counter-balance to it or two. Fast movement made you much more visible, and anytime you were nearby a cloaked opponent your radar went crazy and put you on alert. It was like being invisible while banging a bunch of pots and pans together. You could fire while cloaked, but it made you very visible for a short amount of time. It muted all but the highest pitched sounds while it was activated, so you were effectively deaf. Movement also drained that cloaks energy reserve. Yet with all of these disadvantages together, you were able to use any weapon you liked while cloaked. And it was indeed very balanced. Having played Halo, I can tell you that this is by far and a way the best option suggested. If something causes horrible imbalances by its introduction, the easiest way to combat it is to balance it on the contrary, and thats exactly what Halo did with this. CCP shouldn't be afraid to copy the idea, this is true. If you can't accept change, you will fail in this world.
Surt gods end Demon Ronin 1560	Posted - 2014.01.11 09:34:00 - [237] - Quote Denchlad 7 wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Firing while cloaked didn't break Halo Reach or Halo 4. (some other things arguably do, but not that) You simply had to introduce an additional counter-balance to it or two. Fast movement made you much more visible, and anytime you were nearby a cloaked opponent your radar went crazy and put you on alert. It was like being invisible while banging a bunch of pots and pans together. You could fire while cloaked, but it made you very visible for a short amount of time. It muted all but the highest pitched sounds while it was activated, so you were effectively deaf. Movement also drained that cloaks energy reserve. Yet with all of these disadvantages together, you were able to use any weapon you liked while cloaked. And it was indeed very balanced. Having played Halo, I can tell you that this is by far and a way the best option suggested. If something causes horrible imbalances by its introduction, the easiest way to combat it is to balance it on the contrary, and thats exactly what Halo did with this. CCP shouldn't be afraid to copy the idea, this is true. And at the end of the day, people complaining about high-alpha damage weapons like all the top tier Snipers and the Shotgun... generally speaking your dead before you know whats happened currently, so whats the big deal? Besides, if you get hit by a Thale's, the likelihood is, is that if you want to combat it you'll probably spend the rest of the match looking for it. And for as a Shotty myself, it still takes about 2 shots to inflict any major damage, and any time I've ever been killed by a Shotgunner I've turned, noticed him, by the time I'm retaliating I'm already dead. So the invisibility effect doesn't matter as much as people are making it out to be. My point exactly. people too worried about the cloak OHK killing their proto, when they have ALREADY been losing their proto suits to us. lol I think the concern stems from them worrying about us having a higher chance of getting away scott free with the deed. which great scout have been doing since beta.
Marad''er Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 150	Posted - 2014.01.11 09:46:00 - [238] - Quote Kain, I'd say we try it first with being able to shoot while cloaked. If after a month of data gathering and feedback, if is deemed that shooting while cloaked is not very good for gameplay, we can encourage CCP to take it away and see how that changes things. So first let them implement it with the shooting mechanic GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢ Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà Forum Warrior LV. 4 \| Warframe is awesome! \| PSN: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY
DeeJay One Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 187	Posted - 2014.01.11 09:46:00 - [239] - Quote Telcontar Dunedain wrote: This game is bad and hasn't improved in the six months since I stopped playing. You should all feel bad for still playing this game. And you still haven't biomassed your character....
DeeJay One Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 187	Posted - 2014.01.11 10:08:00 - [240] - Quote iceyburnz wrote: I agree. But I also hate clumsy controls. NO TO SWITCHING. Your cloaked. You pull your trigger, you decloak. Then you can fire. There should probably be a delay until you can fire. +1 one for that. Actually I'd prefer to have a "disable cloak" button (AFAIK there are at least two available at any given time, [] and o), but trying to fire would instantly kill you or at least leave you without shields and unable to fire for the next few seconds (lore description: your nanites/suit trying to accommodate firing your weapon have drained all the available power reserves and overloaded your generator which has to restart itself). As for other "features" (just to let them go and maybe for the CPM to take notes): nova knifes should be used while cloaked, but put a significant drain on your cloak energy, you shouldn't be able to use equipment while cloaked flux nades disable all cloaked suits in the area PG/CPU requirements should be high on the cloak devices, with scouts being given bonuses like the covops ships in EVE - a 90-99% bonus. I fear CCP has an NDA-d plan for diluting scouts into covops scouts and basic scouts (like the other frames) so the bonus goes to them, but nevertheless current scouts should get a better bonus or an additional bonus to cloak energy, shimmer, etc

Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2583	Posted - 2014.01.11 11:01:00 - [241] - Quote DeeJay, No reason to have some crazy suicide button coded in. I do agree with those that are saying going from cloaked to able to fire needs to be smooth as long as we don't have cloaked firing. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
mr musturd 0uter.Heaven 249	Posted - 2014.01.11 11:22:00 - [242] - Quote how about we stop trying to nerf something that isnt even in the game yet? Let it be released and go from there and if it does happen to be OP then nerf it, honestly the communtiy can deal with scouts being OP for a effing month we've been so UP for long enough
DeeJay One Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 187	Posted - 2014.01.11 11:46:00 - [243] - Quote mr musturd wrote: how about we stop trying to nerf something that isnt even in the game yet? Let it be released and go from there and if it does happen to be OP then nerf it, honestly the communtiy can deal with scouts being OP for a effing month we've been so UP for long enough Well, nerfing OP things usually angers the community and we will spend the next 3 months after release in hate threads on the forums.
iceyburnz Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 1303	Posted - 2014.01.11 12:37:00 - [244] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: iceyburnz wrote: I agree. But I also hate clumsy controls. NO TO SWITCHING. Your cloaked. You pull your trigger, you decloak. Then you can fire. There should probably be a delay until you can fire. Yeah, so basically your saying you can switch to any equipment or weapon you want but you pull the trigger to deactivate the cloak? Sounds good. I would add if you have a weapon ADSing should also have the same effect as pulling the trigger to deactivate the cloak. Same as hitting the grenade button. Hit grenade button. Cloak Deactivates. HIt again and cook or throw nade as normal. Exactly. "We spent so much time huddling inside buildings with tanks circling outside like a swarm of sharks around bait"
Matticus Monk Ordus Trismegistus 969	Posted - 2014.01.11 12:45:00 - [245] - Quote About the only thing I agree with is that scouts need a slight buff and need to be viable without the use of the cloak. As for the rest, as much as I wish it wasn't coming to the game... we'll just have to figure it out when more details are presented. As Surt mentioned, there shouldn't be any issue with firing one shot while cloaked. Jeeze, what is the big deal....? We typically fire the first shot unseen now anyway. Whether it's by flanking, stalking, sniping.... The first time many people know a scout is around is when they drop to the ground and think "WTF just happened?"
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 8	Posted - 2014.01.11 12:51:00 - [246] - Quote Hey Mr. Kain Spero. Could you not get one of those polls linked in your thread so we can actually vote on a 'YES / NO / Not at first' type thing?
DeeJay One Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 188	Posted - 2014.01.11 13:39:00 - [247] - Quote Matticus Monk wrote: As Surt mentioned, there shouldn't be any issue with firing one shot while cloaked. Jeeze, what is the big deal....? We typically fire the first shot unseen now anyway. Whether it's by flanking, stalking, sniping.... Problem is the cloak will not be usable by scouts only, getting hit by a cloaked forge gunner won't be so fine and dandy...
Vulcanus Lightbringer Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 176	Posted - 2014.01.11 13:43:00 - [248] - Quote DeeJay One wrote: Matticus Monk wrote: As Surt mentioned, there shouldn't be any issue with firing one shot while cloaked. Jeeze, what is the big deal....? We typically fire the first shot unseen now anyway. Whether it's by flanking, stalking, sniping.... Problem is the cloak will not be usable by scouts only, getting hit by a cloaked forge gunner won't be so fine and dandy... Heavies can't use equipment though, so cloaked forge gunners won't be a problem either way...
Sgt Buttscratch 1285	Posted - 2014.01.11 14:14:00 - [249] - Quote Who is cpm? I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
DeeJay One Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 188	Posted - 2014.01.11 14:25:00 - [250] - Quote Sgt Buttscratch wrote: Who is cpm? Bad troll is terrible.

DeeJay One Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 188	Posted - 2014.01.11 14:26:00 - [251] - Quote Vulcanus Lightbringer wrote: Heavies can't use equipment though, so cloaked forge gunners won't be a problem either way... Oops. my bad. But getting and MD or a Plasma Cannon in the back is equally bad.
Gaff Origami ZionTCD Public Disorder. 70	Posted - 2014.01.11 15:39:00 - [252] - Quote You know the community is getting pretty ridiculous when we start crying OP before seeing any gameplay or any fitting stats. People are pretending to ignore the fact that there aren't already a hundred cheap ways to die already...one of them is called militia tanks. I hope they keep the ability to start firing while cloaked so we can at least see how it plays out. It would be nice to see a gameplay video of the cloak in action to give us some idea of the visual effect and how useful it is in practice rather than speculating how OP or UP it is based on a couple off-hand dev comments.
ECHO PACK GamersForChrist Orion Empire 82	Posted - 2014.01.11 19:20:00 - [253] - Quote Gaff Origami wrote: You know the community is getting pretty ridiculous when we start crying OP before seeing any gameplay or any fitting stats. People are pretending to ignore the fact that there aren't already a hundred cheap ways to die already...one of them is called militia tanks. I hope they keep the ability to start firing while cloaked so we can at least see how it plays out. It would be nice to see a gameplay video of the cloak in action to give us some idea of the visual effect and how useful it is in practice rather than speculating how OP or UP it is based on a couple off-hand dev comments. I agree. I bet the community will realise that all the ( don't shoot while cloak ) isn't a good idea if CCP showed a video of its gameplay. OP things aren't gamebreaking its been the community
Matticus Monk Ordus Trismegistus 973	Posted - 2014.01.11 19:40:00 - [254] - Quote DeeJay One wrote: Vulcanus Lightbringer wrote: Heavies can't use equipment though, so cloaked forge gunners won't be a problem either way... Oops. my bad. But getting and MD or a Plasma Cannon in the back is equally bad. I've rarely been killed by an MD or PC user I've seen before-hand. It's usually a from the roof, behind cover, or out of nowhere lucky / cheap shot... not a skill shot from someone who legitimately got the drop on me. I don't see how being invisible for the first shot from this weapon is really all that frightening, honestly. If they are already in their typical hidden, covered, camped spots... well, being cloaked there wouldn't change much from my view. Besides these guys typically go for multiple kills so if they now alter their tactics to approach and attack groups, well, it's added risk to expose yourself like that and then not kill all of your targets. Especially for PC user w/ 1 shot in the clip.... Honestly, I don't really see that much of an issue here. They will be running gimped fits to accomplish this anyway.... they will finally see what scouting is all about; gimping yourself and going for the paranoid, must-hit initial strike and then hoping you can get away or finish the job without dying. It will be great; every medium frame user will complain the cloak makes them UP and they can't use it effectively..... I doubt they will tolerate the drop in KDR to become even remotely threatening with the cloak in a medium frame.... Scouts can still hunt you down with passive scanning most likely - and we have tons of experience executing people and playing games with our prey when we can't see them (in the case now when they are behind walls or other structures....) TL;DR - not concerned with any of this. And still not using the stupid cloak, CCP. Please don't gimp my scout fits anymore or make me use some gimmick.
Marad''er Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 158	Posted - 2014.01.11 19:52:00 - [255] - Quote Marad''er wrote: Kain, I'd say we try it first with being able to shoot while cloaked. If after a month of data gathering and feedback, if is deemed that shooting while cloaked is not very good for gameplay, we can encourage CCP to take it away and see how that changes things. So first let them implement it with the shooting mechanic GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢ Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà Forum Warrior LV. 4 \| Warframe is awesome! \| PSN: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY
Doshneil Antaro Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 159	Posted - 2014.01.11 20:19:00 - [256] - Quote DeeJay One wrote: Vulcanus Lightbringer wrote: Heavies can't use equipment though, so cloaked forge gunners won't be a problem either way... Oops. my bad. But getting and MD or a Plasma Cannon in the back is equally bad. You forgot the minja weapon, the Nova Knife. They can stack damage mods and OHK almost every suit. If able to be done under cloak, it will be the newest FOTM.
Knight Soiaire BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 4381	Posted - 2014.01.11 20:22:00 - [257] - Quote Doshneil Antaro wrote: DeeJay One wrote: Vulcanus Lightbringer wrote: Heavies can't use equipment though, so cloaked forge gunners won't be a problem either way... Oops. my bad. But getting and MD or a Plasma Cannon in the back is equally bad. You forgot the minja weapon, the Nova Knife. They can stack damage mods and OHK almost every suit. If able to be done under cloak, it will be the newest FOTM. We haven't even seen a video of the cloak in action, haven't even seen any of its stats, and people are already calling it a FOTM. God I hate this community. Provider of Vanilla Scented Soap Bars EVE - White Sign Soapstone (Trial for newbs)
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2588	Posted - 2014.01.11 21:59:00 - [258] - Quote Knight Soiaire wrote: We haven't even seen a video of the cloak in action, haven't even seen any of its stats, and people are already calling it a FOTM. God I hate this community. What's worse is turning a blind eye and letting a bad mechanic go live in the game. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
mollerz Minja Scouts 1765	Posted - 2014.01.11 22:01:00 - [259] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Knight Soiaire wrote: We haven't even seen a video of the cloak in action, haven't even seen any of its stats, and people are already calling it a FOTM. God I hate this community. What's worse is turning a blind eye and letting a bad mechanic go live in the game. Like logis for the last year? lolz. This is the most self serving crutch player thread ever. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Knight Soiaire BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 4383	Posted - 2014.01.11 22:08:00 - [260] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Knight Soiaire wrote: We haven't even seen a video of the cloak in action, haven't even seen any of its stats, and people are already calling it a FOTM. God I hate this community. What's worse is turning a blind eye and letting a bad mechanic go live in the game. I take it you've seen the mechanic in action? I take it you've also seen the shimmer in action? Provider of Vanilla Scented Soap Bars EVE - White Sign Soapstone (Trial for newbs)

Marston VC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1484	Posted - 2014.01.11 22:08:00 - [261] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: GET ATMESON wrote: If the CPM have been "discussing" scouts why hasnt there been any post up by you guys saying "we talked about scouts today" "We might get these changes" Can you show the community any of this? I would like to see 1 post you made in General discussions. Link please. Unfortunately, we've actually been asked in many cases when we have meetings to consider even the fact that we have had a meeting NDA. This lack of transparency has probably been one of the more frustrating aspects of being on the CPM. I will also say the channels of communication with the Devs that are responsible for moment to moment gameplay have been spotty at best. For this reason I really wold like to applaud CCP Remant for publicly posting how the cloaks currently work so we can all discuss this. The forums are not our only avenue of communication or discussion. The CPM can be reached via, skype, email, and in-game almost 24/7. So no guns while in cloak, okay, but how about nova knives? Im not really a scout, but being able to use nova knives while cloaked would be pretty cool. It could be balanced by having the plasma part of the knives shine through the suit when it gets charged up. I think scout specialists would appreciate that. Marston VC, STB Director
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 204	Posted - 2014.01.11 22:23:00 - [262] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Knight Soiaire wrote: We haven't even seen a video of the cloak in action, haven't even seen any of its stats, and people are already calling it a FOTM. God I hate this community. What's worse is turning a blind eye and letting a bad mechanic go live in the game. Still yet to see a proper explanation as to why the mechanic is so bad. And I'm starting to see that all these 'suggestions' are just an attempt to protect the current meta by nerfing an as of yet unreleased item so that it's of no use. If you don't like the mechanic, then petition to not have it introduced, don't push to nerf it. Say what you mean instead of trying to sabotage it.
excillon Nova Corps Marines Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 153	Posted - 2014.01.11 22:27:00 - [263] - Quote Signed. Absolutely. Scouts need a buff but not like this.
Denn Maell PIanet Express Canis Eliminatus Operatives 43	Posted - 2014.01.12 00:13:00 - [264] - Quote /Signed I'm really not looking forward to snipers and shot gunners getting this buff. An indefinitely cloaked sniper who could be anywhere? Question: Do we have any info on whether this will be a 'as long as its in our hands we're cloaked' or more of a temporary buff mechanic?
Horizen Kenpachi TACTICAL STRIKE ELITE 89	Posted - 2014.01.12 00:33:00 - [265] - Quote Let ccp do as they please if it needs tweaking they can but it shold be fine adapt or die Hit me with your nerf bat.
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2589	Posted - 2014.01.12 00:49:00 - [266] - Quote Horizen Kenpachi wrote: Let ccp do as they please if it needs tweaking they can but it shold be fine adapt or die I'm confident players have the skill to adapt to using a cloak effectively without having to alpha damage whilst unseen. Adapt or Die cuts both ways. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 791	Posted - 2014.01.12 00:53:00 - [267] - Quote Research on cloaks in FPS games should give them more then enough to learn off of. Sadly I don't have 100% faith that CCP would do this. Making something Over Powered out of the gate with somewhat fore knowledge of it is what is actively killing your population more then any one feature or change. Meh there is still enough population you can take a couple more hits before huge red flags go up eh?
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 206	Posted - 2014.01.12 01:57:00 - [268] - Quote Denn Maell wrote: /Signed I'm really not looking forward to snipers and shot gunners getting this buff. An indefinitely cloaked sniper who could be anywhere? Question: Do we have any info on whether this will be a 'as long as its in our hands we're cloaked' or more of a temporary buff mechanic? Temporary. There's a limited amount of time you can spend in cloak, conditions that break cloak, and a cool down after the cloak ends. There's also a hard counter for it (active scanner) as cloaked units still appear on scanner, and a couple of soft counters (shimmer when moving and targeting reticule still turns red when over a cloaked unit). Known details are: - The cloak field is a piece of equipment. - When selected the cortex is raised and you press fire to activate it. - Once activated, it goes away and your weapon is raised. You can switch to other weapons/equipment while cloaked. - You cloak. The amount of "shimmer" is increased as you move so standing still you will be nigh invisible, but when moving you will be noticeable to an extent. When cloaked, you obviously have no chevron or health bars, but the enemy reticule will flash red if you run past it. - Cloak can be deactivated by selecting it and pressing fire. - Once deactivated or it runs out it will start to recharge. - Firing a weapon while cloaked will rapidly deplete the cloak field (a single shot from a sniper rifle, for instance, will decloak you) - You can only fit one cloak field at a time. Here's the relevant dev posts: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1699636#post1699636 And here's my take on the utilisation of cloaks: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1702679#post1702679 As of yet no specific information is available (fitting, cool downs, etc) and no one has seen it in action, so it is impossible to determine whether it is over powered, under powered, or any other sort of powered. The rest is just fear-mongering and conjecture.
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2590	Posted - 2014.01.12 03:35:00 - [269] - Quote The dev posts clearly enumerates to overarching design intent, which is to allow an alpha strike whilst cloaked . Fitting, cool downs, etc don't matter at that point because the mechanics described by Remnant's post mean a round will leave a weapon unaffected by the cloak and will allow a player to line up a headshot, pull the trigger, and 1 or more of those shots will be with the user "nigh invisible" while still. This is the aspect of the mechanic that is unacceptable. No firing while cloaked. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 207	Posted - 2014.01.12 04:34:00 - [270] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: The dev posts clearly enumerates to overarching design intent, which is to allow an alpha strike whilst cloaked . Fitting, cool downs, etc don't matter at that point because the mechanics described by Remnant's post mean a round will leave a weapon unaffected by the cloak and will allow a player to line up a headshot, pull the trigger, and 1 or more of those shots will be with the user "nigh invisible" while still. This is the aspect of the mechanic that is unacceptable. No firing while cloaked. How is this scenario substantively different from being headshot by a sniper? Do sniper rifles need to be subject to a nerf so that they are unable to make a head shot while being "nigh invisible" because they're 400m away? How about rail tanks shooting from red line to red line? What's being advocated in these threads is nerf of a specific piece of equipment for all usage scenarios due to one very specific usage scenario, which is already replicated in game by other methods which require substantially less risk from the user, and don't suffer from the mitigating control (hard and soft counters) inbuilt into the cloaking mechanism. If you can explain to me how the cloak is game breaking, or how it is blatantly unfair when compared to other pre-existing mechanics such as sniping, then I'll be happy to support changes. But at the moment all I've seen is conjecture and fear-mongering with nothing to substantiate it.

Mr Kane Spero Spero Escrow Services Negative-Feedback 42	Posted - 2014.01.12 04:38:00 - [271] - Quote I think you can ADS a line up a headshot with more than just a sniper rifle last time I checked.
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 207	Posted - 2014.01.12 06:36:00 - [272] - Quote Mr Kane Spero wrote: I think you can ADS a line up a headshot with more than just a sniper rifle last time I checked. I'm not sure what your point is? You can line up a headshot with a rail turret if you like, but it doesn't stop me being able to OHK from over 400m with a sniper rifle. Can you explain how having the possibility of getting a near range headshot off is more powerful than that? With a near range head shot it's likely I'm going to have to move to get the shot, which brings shimmer into play, and if you check your corners then there's a good chance you'll light me up with your targeting reticule as well. And then, if you're not dead in one shot or I miss, you have a good chance to kill me because my shields and armor are paper and I'm standing right next to you. This is all supposing that you're not using a scanner, or running in a squad using a scanner, which will give me away before I even get close. Contrast this with a sniper in the red line. You have no defence except for not stopping for long enough to give me a shot, and your only response is counter sniping, dropping an orbital, or entering the red line. The cloak is mainly a defensive tool, and if you try to use it offensively, it's risk/reward weighted. Don't get me wrong, I fully expect there will be situations where the cloak will be used for a OHK that is near unavoidable. I'm just saying that this is no more powerful than several other options I have to do the same, but involves significantly higher risk.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11968	Posted - 2014.01.12 06:53:00 - [273] - Quote Brokerib wrote: Mr Kane Spero wrote: I think you can ADS a line up a headshot with more than just a sniper rifle last time I checked. I'm not sure what your point is? You can line up a headshot with a rail turret if you like, but it doesn't stop me being able to OHK from over 400m with a sniper rifle. Can you explain how having the possibility of getting a near range headshot off is more powerful than that? With a near range head shot it's likely I'm going to have to move to get the shot, which brings shimmer into play, and if you check your corners then there's a good chance you'll light me up with your targeting reticule as well. And then, if you're not dead in one shot or I miss, you have a good chance to kill me because my shields and armor are paper and I'm standing right next to you. This is all supposing that you're not using a scanner, or running in a squad using a scanner, which will give me away before I even get close. Contrast this with a sniper in the red line. You have no defence except for not stopping for long enough to give me a shot, and your only response is counter sniping, dropping an orbital, or entering the red line. The cloak is mainly a defensive tool, and if you try to use it offensively, it's risk/reward weighted. Don't get me wrong, I fully expect there will be situations where the cloak will be used for a OHK that is near unavoidable. I'm just saying that this is no more powerful than several other options I have to do the same, but involves significantly higher risk. Shot about 42 red line snipers today dead. I play without the scope up and I get to see the bullet trails they make and the flash of the muzzle. They're rather easy targets to get rid of. Most of the time though players don't die to one shot from a sniper and attentive players will know there is a sniper on the field and start playing around the threat. Simple whisper or even the kill feed itself is more than enough. Cloakers do not generate kill feeds with the cloak. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 207	Posted - 2014.01.12 08:02:00 - [274] - Quote Wow. So you managed to adapt your play style to compensate for players using a high alpha damage first strike weapon, without resorting to calling for crippling nerfs? In fact, it appears that you were making use of the existing soft and hard counters in game to do so. Maybe try that as your first point of call for cloaks...? Here, I've fixed that up for you. Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Shot about 42 cloak scouts today dead. I play with an active scanner in squad. They're rather easy targets to get rid of, as scouts are soft targets when you know where they are. Most of the time though players don't die to one shot from a cloak player and attentive players will know there is a cloak scout on the field and start playing around the threat. Simply communicating with my team is enough, even though cloakers do not generate kill feeds with the cloak. Seriously. I'm not saying cloaks are fine, and I'm not saying I like them being tied to scouts so tightly that they won't have any option except to fit one. I'm also concerned about logi's, once again, ending up being a better scout than the scout if they can fit a cloak. What I am saying is that by calling for a massive nerfstike before they're in game and part of the meta is going to cripple both the item itself, and scouts by proxy. At the very least, how about waiting for a dev post explaining the full function and stats before damning them as irreparably broken. At least then we can talk about the detail, instead of making up horror stories.
Free Beers Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1768	Posted - 2014.01.12 17:39:00 - [275] - Quote So what this thread has turned into is a bunch of bad players that want to abuse a broke mechanic (yeah i looked up your kdr) and the rest of us that don't want ccp to break dust. Like i said before if CCP Rouge wants to show he is captain of this ship he will nix cloaks for now and have ccp fix scouts without breaking them. [CCP]FoxFour> STFU beers[CCP]FoxFour> Erm [CCP]FoxFour> I mean[CCP]FoxFour> shit [CCP]FoxFour> you were defending me
noob cavman Tickle My Null-Sac 396	Posted - 2014.01.12 17:44:00 - [276] - Quote I dont want to be able to shoot when invisible. I want to decloak, charge my knives and stab you in the face whilst muttering bad things about gal logis and fact the cloak is not a scout only piece of kit. Hey mlt tank guess what my lav is ready and I GOT TWO TICKETS TO PARADISE!!! British ninja cowboy
DISGRUNTLEDev Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 280	Posted - 2014.01.12 17:59:00 - [277] - Quote Free Beers wrote: So what this thread has turned into is a bunch of bad players that want to abuse a broke mechanic (yeah i looked up your kdr) and the rest of us that don't want ccp to break dust. Like i said before if CCP Rouge wants to show he is captain of this ship he will nix cloaks for now and have ccp fix scouts without breaking them. No, most of this is scouts mad that the FOTL players want to **** on scouts after a year of doing it. Why can't you understand that it looks like this gear is the only buff scouts are getting and we're pissed that you somehow think scouts being half way decent is gamebreaking? My KD is 2.6, and I honestly don't care much about it. I take out squad leaders and logis, hack objectives, and place uplinks. The stats you should be looking at are things like WP to kill ratios and things that show what a player is actually doing.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9942	Posted - 2014.01.12 18:01:00 - [278] - Quote FORWARD UNTO THE FUTURE!! We will harvest the tears of all from peasants to royalty, we will give them reason to fear the shadows; we will make them fear the light! Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Dropship Pilot
noob cavman Tickle My Null-Sac 398	Posted - 2014.01.12 18:03:00 - [279] - Quote Infact I want the cloak to be like crysis 2,3 I want get in position, stalk you a bit, maybe send a mail to torment you. DECLOAK behind you and rip you apart with my knives. Teabag then recloak and go after the bastard gal logi constanly scanningme . by crysis 2,3 I ment the cloak effect and bar not the shooting bit Hey mlt tank guess what my lav is ready and I GOT TWO TICKETS TO PARADISE!!! British ninja cowboy
Scarr Beloxian FACTION WARFARE ARMY 15	Posted - 2014.01.12 18:04:00 - [280] - Quote using nova knives while cloaked is the only option ill sign on for tanks destroyed in 1 match:3. number of QQ mails total:too many to count. total number of tanks destroyed so far:10

Knight Soiaire BurgezzE.T.F 4416	Posted - 2014.01.12 18:04:00 - [281] - Quote We dont even have the stats for them and you're all asking for a nerf. You're all just ****. There is no nicer way of putting it. Provider of Vanilla Scented Soap Bars EVE - White Sign Soapstone (Trial for newbs)
Oswald Rehnquist 1074	Posted - 2014.01.12 18:08:00 - [282] - Quote To reiterate for the anti cloak group, I never expected to shoot while cloaked, that was a shocked to me as well, but when your role and racial are literally tied to one equipment piece, it dam well better have defensive and offensive utility. Now making it just a "open area crossing tool" is fine but make sure that the role/racial to cloaks is abandoned if that is the case. Below 28 dB
DeeJay One Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 191	Posted - 2014.01.12 18:30:00 - [283] - Quote Oswald Rehnquist wrote: To reiterate for the anti cloak group, I never expected to shoot while cloaked, that was a shock to me as well, but when your role and racial are literally tied to one equipment piece, it dam well better have defensive and offensive utility. Part of the problem is as it stands now: the cloak is available to other suits, not just scouts, so no one here is specifically nerfing scouts.
Doshneil Antaro Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 160	Posted - 2014.01.12 18:46:00 - [284] - Quote On the issue of alpha damge weapons, there are differences between the ranged and the cqc knives and shotguns. No matter if you believe it or not, a sniper getting headshots takes real skill, and should imho should OHK all med suits of the same level as the weapon. I also believe a shotgun to the head should be a OHK, as it takes skill to get in close stealthly and line up a head shot. Doing so cloaked, takes the skill out of it. Now onto the knives. I expect hate from this, but my feelings will not be hurt. No easy to fit sidearm should have OHK mechanics in place. Easy to fit proto as well as proto mods. Now add in cloaking to the mix and people will see how rediculous they are and everyone will jump on the bandwagon. I do know the hit mechanics are still not the best for them yet, but that is another issue that should be addresses else where. They need an increase to cpu/pg as well as making them break after x amount of hits, but can be fixed via nanohives/supply depots.
Free Beers Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1770	Posted - 2014.01.12 18:47:00 - [285] - Quote Knight Soiaire wrote: We dont even have the stats for them and you're all asking for a nerf. You're all just ****. There is no nicer way of putting it. You dont need stats when ccp has already told us how a mechanic is going to work. What does is matter if you get 10 shots or 12 shots while cloaked before you are visible? It's the mechanic that is the issue not the stats of it. You seem to miss the entire point of this discussion and that's just ignorant. There is just no nicer way of putting that. [CCP]FoxFour> STFU beers[CCP]FoxFour> Erm [CCP]FoxFour> I mean[CCP]FoxFour> shit [CCP]FoxFour> you were defending me
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 419	Posted - 2014.01.12 18:54:00 - [286] - Quote No, they totally should be able to fire while cloaked, duh. But their first few shots will only deal 10% damage. Otherwise, no fire from cloak. Otherwise, it will just be the next FOTM! And this should be an innate skill associated with scout suits only. Nuff Said
DeeJay One Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 191	Posted - 2014.01.12 19:12:00 - [287] - Quote Oswald Rehnquist wrote: I call shenanigans, or more accurately you zero consideration is given to the scout, which was the main point, non scouts using cloaks have other racials to do other things, Remember the slayer logi? You know, we still have them, even though logi suits aren't meant to be slayers. Adding cloaks to suits which have +25% to CPU/PG as it is in the proposed changes will result in cloaked slayer logis, which won't change the scout situation we have now. I for one would really like my logi suit do logistics stuff instead adapting once again to a new slayer role.
Suanar Daranaus Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 118	Posted - 2014.01.12 19:17:00 - [288] - Quote My Thoughts; IF, CCP are going to bring cloaks into the game You should NOT be able to use equipment, drop equipment , fire your weapons, reload, scan, hack ect... Just being invisible will be enough. They must also add DELAYS so you can NOT fire a weapon until x amount of time has passed from when you de-cloak. They can add skills to reduce this delay time. Also, You can NOT SPRINT while cloaked UNLESS you have something like a 'Black Ops' Cloaking device That would require a Special Suit ( example, Scout ) to fit it. As well there Must be a Delay time, ( cool down period ), to RE-CLOAK after Preforming any actions such as those stated above. They can add special skills to reduce This as well. In other words, the cloaking devices should be along the same lines as EVE ship devices. You may now release the Slaver Hounds with the FLAME throwers at this post.
Knight Soiaire BurgezzE.T.F 4416	Posted - 2014.01.12 19:19:00 - [289] - Quote Free Beers wrote: Knight Soiaire wrote: We dont even have the stats for them and you're all asking for a nerf. You're all just ****. There is no nicer way of putting it. You dont need stats when ccp has already told us how a mechanic is going to work. What does is matter if you get 10 shots or 12 shots while cloaked before you are visible? It's the mechanic that is the issue not the stats of it. You seem to miss the entire point of this discussion and that's just ignorant. There is just no nicer way of putting that. There could be an activation time, meaning you cant immediately activate it. There could be a penalty to damage resistance. There could be a penalty to speed. There could be a penalty to Profile. There could even be a damage penalty. You're all overreacting, its way too early to be talking about nerfing it, we haven't even seen the thing in action. From what CCP has told us, it works like pretty much every cloak in every other major game that has a cloak ability. In KZ3/2 you could snipe from a Cloak, but lost you're cloak by doing so, but it worked there because map design wasn't as bad as DUST's where one sniper can shoot from a mountain with near 0 risk involved. In Crysis you could take an initial shot from a Cloak, but doing so cost you all your energy, and in that game snipers didn't run around with near immortality because there was no such thing as a redline, or boundary that stopped you from fighting back against them. Provider of Vanilla Scented Soap Bars EVE - White Sign Soapstone (Trial for newbs)
NextDark Knight Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 123	Posted - 2014.01.12 19:35:00 - [290] - Quote So many people trying so hard to make this a game about them. How big they can yell for something. CCP wants to have firing while cloaked let them try it. After you actually use it then you can start your crying again. They already said that you can't use ADS while cloaked, stop your whining. How do you know visibility isn't lowered while cloaked? What do you know about the mechanic other then you want to cry to change something you feel initialed to have? Unless you actually played the new cloak changes you should shut up with your dump petition thread. Forge Changes needed Officer Splash 3.0, Proto 2.7 Advanced 2.5 Standard 2.1.

Free Beers Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1770	Posted - 2014.01.12 19:35:00 - [291] - Quote Knight Soiaire wrote: Free Beers wrote: Knight Soiaire wrote: We dont even have the stats for them and you're all asking for a nerf. You're all just ****. There is no nicer way of putting it. You dont need stats when ccp has already told us how a mechanic is going to work. What does is matter if you get 10 shots or 12 shots while cloaked before you are visible? It's the mechanic that is the issue not the stats of it. You seem to miss the entire point of this discussion and that's just ignorant. There is just no nicer way of putting that. There could be an activation time, meaning you cant immediately activate it. There could be a penalty to damage resistance. There could be a penalty to speed. There could be a penalty to Profile. There could even be a damage penalty. You're all overreacting, its way too early to be talking about nerfing it, we haven't even seen the thing in action. From what CCP has told us, it works like pretty much every cloak in every other major game that has a cloak ability. In KZ3/2 you could snipe from a Cloak, but lost you're cloak by doing so, but it worked there because map design wasn't as bad as DUST's where one sniper can shoot from a mountain with near 0 risk involved. In Crysis you could take an initial shot from a Cloak, but doing so cost you all your energy, and in that game snipers didn't run around with near immortality because there was no such thing as a redline, or boundary that stopped you from fighting back against them. Why do you assume the cpm doesn't have all the details. When I read about cloaks in the forums I asked kain on skype if this is for real. He linked me this thread and said cpm is 100% against it. The day the cloak info came out so did this post by kane. They were waiting for the info to go public so they could publicly voice against it. You have been around here for a while are you not tired of ccp "lets just try this" design management approach? [CCP]FoxFour> STFU beers[CCP]FoxFour> Erm [CCP]FoxFour> I mean[CCP]FoxFour> shit [CCP]FoxFour> you were defending me
mollerz Minja Scouts 1801	Posted - 2014.01.12 20:13:00 - [292] - Quote This thread is such a med frame circle jerk I can't believe CPM even put this together. it's 100% biased, and more of a support group for med frames that are finally going to have to deal with scouts on a different level than they are comfortable with. At least IWS' thread has an intelligent back and forth going on. this thread is just b000llLshite. Have fun with it as the support group it will sure to become You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 228	Posted - 2014.01.12 20:27:00 - [293] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Dear CCP and the Community of Dust 514, I would like it to be made publicly and clearly known that the CPM does not support the ability to fire a weapon while cloaked. If you support this (and even if you don't) I encourage you to post your thoughts so that CCP can hear our voices and change the course away from what would be a game-breaking mechanic. The devil is always in the details, but I think we can all agree that firing while cloaking is a line in the sand that CCP must not cross. /signed Kain Spero of CPM 0 Carebear module detected. -1. I'm here since may 2012, my EVE alter ego is Nosum Hseebnrido.
Free Beers Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1770	Posted - 2014.01.12 20:32:00 - [294] - Quote mollerz wrote: This thread is such a med frame circle jerk I can't believe CPM even put this together. it's 100% biased, and more of a support group for med frames that are finally going to have to deal with scouts on a different level than they are comfortable with. At least IWS' thread has an intelligent back and forth going on. this thread is just b000llLshite. Have fun with it as the support group it will sure to become No, it's not. I am a scout and I want ccp to address the real issues with them and not just cover over it with a cloak. The negative it brings to game play out weighs any perceived benefits. The only people what are pro cloaks are thinking how they are going to camp, cloak, and gank a bunch of proto suits. So this thread is biased against players that are selfish and want easy mode. Which is the same entitlement that snipers feel. They want a kill but not be killed while they hide behind the redline. [CCP]FoxFour> STFU beers[CCP]FoxFour> Erm [CCP]FoxFour> I mean[CCP]FoxFour> shit [CCP]FoxFour> you were defending me
Oswald Rehnquist 1077	Posted - 2014.01.12 20:32:00 - [295] - Quote DeeJay One wrote: Oswald Rehnquist wrote: Essentially all I am asking is that scouts no longer have a role/racial to the cloak, should cloaks be of limited utility Remember the slayer logi? You know, we still have them, even though logi suits aren't meant to be slayers. Adding cloaks to suits which have +25% to CPU/PG as it is in the proposed changes will result in cloaked slayer logis, which won't change the scout situation we have now. I for one would really like my logi suit do logistics stuff instead adapting once again to a new slayer role. Fixed that for you, I'll try to make it more clear if it isn't A) If ones role and racial bonus is tied to one equipment, it needs to be high utility meaning offense and defense application B) If a highly limited cloak is needed for balance, don't bother having role/racial based around the cloak You guys are arguing for issues "A", and I am saying if "A" happens then "B" needs to happen, and that is about it. I am not arguing against "A" I am trying to show the apparent lack of any concern on how this effects scouts, considering the new proposed racials plus your cloak suggestions would make scouts even worse than we are now, meaning given your implementation vs what we have now, I'd take what we have now. The fact that you guys can't see I'm not arguing against a cloaking nerf scares me lol, I am arguing for changing scout racials should cloaks have to come in nerf. Below 28 dB
mollerz Minja Scouts 1803	Posted - 2014.01.12 20:57:00 - [296] - Quote Free Beers wrote: No, it's not. I am a scout and I want ccp to address the real issues with them and not just cover over it with a cloak. The negative it brings to game play out weighs any perceived benefits. The only people what are pro cloaks are thinking how they are going to camp, cloak, and gank a bunch of proto suits. So this thread is biased against players that are selfish and want easy mode. Which is the same entitlement that snipers feel. They want a kill but not be killed while they hide behind the redline. You are a scout? I am not going to camp. I doubt many scout will camp. it's just not worth it. It's boring. Our mobility has us going form one end of the map to the other. This thread is biased for players who want to keep their easy mode. Their logi slayer win button. Odd, as a scout you would see it from the medium perspective since you'd know how long they have had a win button. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Free Beers Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1770	Posted - 2014.01.12 21:31:00 - [297] - Quote mollerz wrote: Free Beers wrote: No, it's not. I am a scout and I want ccp to address the real issues with them and not just cover over it with a cloak. The negative it brings to game play out weighs any perceived benefits. The only people what are pro cloaks are thinking how they are going to camp, cloak, and gank a bunch of proto suits. So this thread is biased against players that are selfish and want easy mode. Which is the same entitlement that snipers feel. They want a kill but not be killed while they hide behind the redline. You are a scout? I am not going to camp. I doubt many scout will camp. it's just not worth it. It's boring. Our mobility has us going from one end of the map to the other. This thread is biased for players who want to keep their easy mode. Their logi slayer win button. Odd, as a scout you would see it from the medium perspective since you'd know how long they have had a win button. Yes, I'm a scout and have been since replication. I have 5 accounts where the main toon has over 12 mill sp so i play just about every suit/weapon/vehicle in dust these days. Reading your response its obvious you are the one being bias as per your anti proto logi statement. I get it proto logis touched you in a bad place and now you want revenge against them. So you want to cloak and shot gun them. Can you be any more obvious? Being invisible to most scanners and being invisible to sight are completely different things in dust Side note: How can you say its mobility? Get in an LAV or DS and go to the other side of the map. The most I will run is on the edge of map to drop links to help take the objective. Why? Thats what vehicles are for don't do things the hard way and they say that's how you play a scout. [CCP]FoxFour> STFU beers[CCP]FoxFour> Erm [CCP]FoxFour> I mean[CCP]FoxFour> shit [CCP]FoxFour> you were defending me
noob cavman Tickle My Null-Sac 403	Posted - 2014.01.12 21:41:00 - [298] - Quote Free Beers wrote: mollerz wrote: Free Beers wrote: No, it's not. I am a scout and I want ccp to address the real issues with them and not just cover over it with a cloak. The negative it brings to game play out weighs any perceived benefits. The only people what are pro cloaks are thinking how they are going to camp, cloak, and gank a bunch of proto suits. So this thread is biased against players that are selfish and want easy mode. Which is the same entitlement that snipers feel. They want a kill but not be killed while they hide behind the redline. You are a scout? I am not going to camp. I doubt many scout will camp. it's just not worth it. It's boring. Our mobility has us going from one end of the map to the other. This thread is biased for players who want to keep their easy mode. Their logi slayer win button. Odd, as a scout you would see it from the medium perspective since you'd know how long they have had a win button. Yes, I'm a scout and have been since replication. I have 5 accounts where the main toon has over 12 mill sp so i play just about every suit/weapon/vehicle in dust these days. Reading your response its obvious you are the one being bias as per your anti proto logi statement. I get it proto logis touched you in a bad place and now you want revenge against them. So you want to cloak and shot gun them. Can you be any more obvious? Being invisible to most scanners and being invisible to sight are completely different things in dust Side note: How can you say its mobility? Get in an LAV or DS and go to the other side of the map. The most I will run is on the edge of map to drop links to help take the objective. Why? Thats what vehicles are for don't do things the hard way and they say that's how you play a scout. Because lavs and dropships make a lot of noise, are big shiny bastard things and are not stealthy in any way. he also a full time knifer not a shotgunner. Hey mlt tank guess what my lav is ready and I GOT TWO TICKETS TO PARADISE!!! British ninja cowboy
Free Beers Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1770	Posted - 2014.01.12 21:57:00 - [299] - Quote noob cavman wrote: Because lavs and dropships make a lot of noise, are big shiny bastard things and are not stealthy in any way. he also a full time knifer not a shotgunner. This all makes sense now. Using knives in dust is nothing more than a novelty. I'm neither for or against them but just don't see them as a realistic and viable option in dust at the moment. CCP has a hard time with melee being OP and errors on the side of caution. With cloaks melee because very dangerous option because players ability to react once you are being hacked by a knifer. It's obvious he just wants to camp and knife people because it give his playing style an advantage. His opinion is just him trying to justify what he sees as retribution for the current weakness of scouts and knifers. [CCP]FoxFour> STFU beers[CCP]FoxFour> Erm [CCP]FoxFour> I mean[CCP]FoxFour> shit [CCP]FoxFour> you were defending me
noob cavman Tickle My Null-Sac 403	Posted - 2014.01.12 22:07:00 - [300] - Quote Free Beers wrote: noob cavman wrote: Because lavs and dropships make a lot of noise, are big shiny bastard things and are not stealthy in any way. he also a full time knifer not a shotgunner. This all makes sense now. Using knives in dust is nothing more than a novelty. I'm neither for or against them but just don't see them as a realistic and viable option in dust at the moment. CCP has a hard time with melee being OP and errors on the side of caution. With cloaks melee because very dangerous option because players ability to react once you are being hacked by a knifer. It's obvious he just wants to camp and knife people because it give his playing style an advantage. His opinion is just him trying to justify what he sees as retribution for the current weakness of scouts and knifers. knifers dont camp mate, its just not worth the slow ass strafe speed Hey mlt tank guess what my lav is ready and I GOT TWO TICKETS TO PARADISE!!! British ninja cowboy

DISGRUNTLEDev Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 283	Posted - 2014.01.12 22:10:00 - [301] - Quote Beers, honesty, keep your f'ing cloak. Just don't nerf us. I won't run it at the expense of dampening or alpha damage, and don't need it.
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 224	Posted - 2014.01.12 23:19:00 - [302] - Quote Free Beers wrote: So what this thread has turned into is a bunch of bad players that want to abuse a broke mechanic (yeah i looked up your kdr) and the rest of us that don't want ccp to break dust. Like i said before if CCP Rouge wants to show he is captain of this ship he will nix cloaks for now and have ccp fix scouts without breaking them. What broken mechanic are you talking about? Can you explain how the current details we have on cloaking make it broken or break the game? All we have so far is bare bones functional info, and nothing else. We also don't know what other changes are being made in the game that may influence the effectiveness of the cloak. As I've said previously, I'm fine with cloaks not being introduced, I have little interest in them and I don't like scouts being tied to them. I'm not fine with a push to nerf-strike them prior to introduction purely because a number of people know they can't stop their introduction and don't like the mechanic. If you don't want it in game, then push for that, instead of pushing for a nerf under the guise of game balance.
mr musturd 0uter.Heaven 259	Posted - 2014.01.12 23:28:00 - [303] - Quote Free Beers wrote: noob cavman wrote: Because lavs and dropships make a lot of noise, are big shiny bastard things and are not stealthy in any way. he also a full time knifer not a shotgunner. This all makes sense now. Using knives in dust is nothing more than a novelty. I'm neither for or against them but just don't see them as a realistic and viable option in dust at the moment. CCP has a hard time with melee being OP and errors on the side of caution. With cloaks melee because very dangerous option because players ability to react once you are being hacked by a knifer. It's obvious he just wants to camp and knife people because it give his playing style an advantage. His opinion is just him trying to justify what he sees as retribution for the current weakness of scouts and knifers. Novelty? 1v1 My knives vs your gun and I don't need a ******* cloak
GVGMODE WorstPlayersEver 99	Posted - 2014.01.12 23:41:00 - [304] - Quote Reminds me of KZ3, where everybody was using the sniper class for the cloaks
Llast 326 An Arkhos 1275	Posted - 2014.01.12 23:42:00 - [305] - Quote mr musturd wrote: Free Beers wrote: noob cavman wrote: Because lavs and dropships make a lot of noise, are big shiny bastard things and are not stealthy in any way. he also a full time knifer not a shotgunner. This all makes sense now. Using knives in dust is nothing more than a novelty. I'm neither for or against them but just don't see them as a realistic and viable option in dust at the moment. CCP has a hard time with melee being OP and errors on the side of caution. With cloaks melee because very dangerous option because players ability to react once you are being hacked by a knifer. It's obvious he just wants to camp and knife people because it give his playing style an advantage. His opinion is just him trying to justify what he sees as retribution for the current weakness of scouts and knifers. Novelty? 1v1 My knives vs your gun and I don't need a ******* cloak 5 mil ISK on Mustard KRRROOOOOOM
Free Beers Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1770	Posted - 2014.01.12 23:45:00 - [306] - Quote DISGRUNTLEDev wrote: Beers, honesty, keep your f'ing cloak. Just don't nerf us. I won't run it at the expense of dampening or alpha damage, and don't need it. I have no idea what you are on about. I simply am against firing while cloaking and that ccp needs to improve scouts. Everything else I am willing to see how it plays out. You come across as they kid in class that gets frustrated because he doesn't understand so he just yells loudly about it. [CCP]FoxFour> STFU beers[CCP]FoxFour> Erm [CCP]FoxFour> I mean[CCP]FoxFour> shit [CCP]FoxFour> you were defending me
Knight Soiaire BurgezzE.T.F 4417	Posted - 2014.01.12 23:46:00 - [307] - Quote GVGMODE wrote: Reminds me of KZ3, where everybody was using the sniper class for the cloaks Thats because everyone loves being an invisible ninja, exactly why Zer0 was the most popular character in Borderlands 2. Provider of Vanilla Scented Soap Bars EVE - White Sign Soapstone (Trial for newbs)
Knight Soiaire BurgezzE.T.F 4420	Posted - 2014.01.13 00:03:00 - [308] - Quote Free Beers wrote: Why do you assume the cpm doesn't have all the details. When I read about cloaks in the forums I asked kain on skype if this is for real. He linked me this thread and said cpm is 100% against it. The day the cloak info came out so did this post by kane. They were waiting for the info to go public so they could publicly voice against it. You have been around here for a while are you not tired of ccp "lets just try this" design management approach? Even if CPM do have the stats, nothing is set in stone until its publically released, its why they have the CPM under an NDA. Provider of Vanilla Scented Soap Bars EVE - White Sign Soapstone (Trial for newbs)
mollerz Minja Scouts 1810	Posted - 2014.01.13 01:01:00 - [309] - Quote mr musturd wrote: Free Beers wrote: noob cavman wrote: Because lavs and dropships make a lot of noise, are big shiny bastard things and are not stealthy in any way. he also a full time knifer not a shotgunner. This all makes sense now. Using knives in dust is nothing more than a novelty. I'm neither for or against them but just don't see them as a realistic and viable option in dust at the moment. CCP has a hard time with melee being OP and errors on the side of caution. With cloaks melee because very dangerous option because players ability to react once you are being hacked by a knifer. It's obvious he just wants to camp and knife people because it give his playing style an advantage. His opinion is just him trying to justify what he sees as retribution for the current weakness of scouts and knifers. Novelty? 1v1 My knives vs your gun and I don't need a ******* cloak You better believe that, free beers. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
mollerz Minja Scouts 1810	Posted - 2014.01.13 01:08:00 - [310] - Quote Free Beers wrote: Yes, I'm a scout and have been since replication. I have 5 accounts where the main toon has over 12 mill sp so i play just about every suit/weapon/vehicle in dust these days. Reading your response its obvious you are the one being bias as per your anti proto logi statement. I get it proto logis touched you in a bad place and now you want revenge against them. So you want to cloak and shot gun them. Can you be any more obvious? Being invisible to most scanners and being invisible to sight are completely different things in dust Side note: How can you say its mobility? Get in an LAV or DS and go to the other side of the map. The most I will run is on the edge of map to drop links to help take the objective. Why? Thats what vehicles are for don't do things the hard way and they say that's how you play a scout. false. lol. I like taking logis down with knives be cause they are tougher than heavies. I have lots of logi parts from my prey. sorry, but it is true tho. 9 slots, massive CPU/PG. They are the funnest targets! Also, I am not a big fan of the shotty. I'm not good with it. I speed tank.. so I don't usually use an LAV unless there is a time constraint.. I have BPO so it's just always there if I want it. And no thanks to drop ships. you don't sound like you play a scout. shrug. oh and FYI, the show me on the doll where such and such hurt you joke was funny when the OG creative person said it the fist time. Care to be creative on your own You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla

Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2596	Posted - 2014.01.13 03:43:00 - [311] - Quote The fact of the matter is firing while cloaked is a bad mechanic for everyone. Also, the fact that CCP is wrapping up the performance of a scout and "fixing" it with a cloak is problematic. Dust is more than about one role and one style of play. Thinking that making sure the cloak lands in a way that is not damaging to the game as whole is some sort of attack on a particular role is short sighted at best. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Llast 326 An Arkhos 1287	Posted - 2014.01.13 03:46:00 - [312] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: The fact of the matter is firing while cloaked is a bad mechanic for everyone. Also, the fact that CCP is wrapping up the performance of a scout and "fixing" it with a cloak is problematic. Dust is more than about one role and one style of play. Thinking that making sure the cloak lands in a way that is not damaging to the game as whole is some sort of attack on a particular role is short sighted at best. SoGÇª Is this a statement of "The update for scouts will only be centred around cloaks and they will not be functional without them." Wonderful KRRROOOOOOM
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2597	Posted - 2014.01.13 03:58:00 - [313] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: Kain Spero wrote: The fact of the matter is firing while cloaked is a bad mechanic for everyone. Also, the fact that CCP is wrapping up the performance of a scout and "fixing" it with a cloak is problematic. Dust is more than about one role and one style of play. Thinking that making sure the cloak lands in a way that is not damaging to the game as whole is some sort of attack on a particular role is short sighted at best. SoGÇª Is this a statement of "The update for scouts will only be centred around cloaks and they will not be functional without them." Wonderful I really hope that's not how it lands. As it stands CCP says that these things aren't set in stone. Scouts should be able to have a choice of how they run their suits and shouldn't be forced to use a specific piece of equipment to be viable. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Llast 326 An Arkhos 1289	Posted - 2014.01.13 04:08:00 - [314] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Llast 326 wrote: Kain Spero wrote: The fact of the matter is firing while cloaked is a bad mechanic for everyone. Also, the fact that CCP is wrapping up the performance of a scout and "fixing" it with a cloak is problematic. Dust is more than about one role and one style of play. Thinking that making sure the cloak lands in a way that is not damaging to the game as whole is some sort of attack on a particular role is short sighted at best. SoGÇª Is this a statement of "The update for scouts will only be centred around cloaks and they will not be functional without them." Wonderful I really hope that's not how it lands. As it stands CCP says that these things aren't set in stone. Scouts should be able to have a choice of how they run their suits and shouldn't be forced to use a specific piece of equipment to be viable. I agree with you there. For me the whole idea of this game loses it's charm if people are forced into fittings, this is one of the reasons I did not like the idea of "Scout Only" on the cloak, though I feel more needs to be done to balance the equipment and suits out for play. I just can't say to much about it until I actually have information, when that info drops I will be giving my full opinion on it. KRRROOOOOOM
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 229	Posted - 2014.01.13 04:15:00 - [315] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: The fact of the matter is firing while cloaked is a bad mechanic for everyone. Also, the fact that CCP is wrapping up the performance of a scout and "fixing" it with a cloak is problematic. Dust is more than about one role and one style of play. Thinking that making sure the cloak lands in a way that is not damaging to the game as whole is some sort of attack on a particular role is short sighted at best. I agree with everything you've said except the first sentence. Kain Spero wrote: The fact of the matter is firing while cloaked is a bad mechanic for everyone. Neither you, nor anyone else calling for a nerf, has been able to provide solid reasoning for why firing from cloak is so bad that it should be considered broken, or breaks the game. Until you provide actual reasoning for it, its not a fact, it's your opinion. And the fact that you've focused exclusively one that single point issue of firing from cloak instead of talking about any other problems with the implementation, or the failure to address actual issues with scouts, lead me to believe that you're not being entirely transparent in your claims.
Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 625	Posted - 2014.01.13 04:45:00 - [316] - Quote Doshneil Antaro wrote: On the issue of alpha damge weapons, there are differences between the ranged and the cqc knives and shotguns. No matter if you believe it or not, a sniper getting headshots takes real skill, and should imho should OHK all med suits of the same level as the weapon. I also believe a shotgun to the head should be a OHK, as it takes skill to get in close stealthly and line up a head shot. Doing so cloaked, takes the skill out of it. Now onto the knives. I expect hate from this, but my feelings will not be hurt. No easy to fit sidearm should have OHK mechanics in place. Easy to fit proto as well as proto mods. Now add in cloaking to the mix and people will see how rediculous they are and everyone will jump on the bandwagon. I do know the hit mechanics are still not the best for them yet, but that is another issue that should be addresses else where. They need an increase to cpu/pg as well as making them break after x amount of hits, but can be fixed via nanohives/supply depots. Sit in the Redline kneel and line up shots with one of the easiest sniper aiming mechanics in modern gaming A shotgun takes skill because you need to get in close but knives dont Also what are these cheap mods you speak of ? Note - A basic SMG is easier to drop foes than knives and much cheaper resource wise. Also Knives arent OHK In your blind spot
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12010	Posted - 2014.01.13 05:43:00 - [317] - Quote Brokerib wrote: Kain Spero wrote: The fact of the matter is firing while cloaked is a bad mechanic for everyone. Also, the fact that CCP is wrapping up the performance of a scout and "fixing" it with a cloak is problematic. Dust is more than about one role and one style of play. Thinking that making sure the cloak lands in a way that is not damaging to the game as whole is some sort of attack on a particular role is short sighted at best. I agree with everything you've said except the first sentence. Kain Spero wrote: The fact of the matter is firing while cloaked is a bad mechanic for everyone. Neither you, nor anyone else calling for a nerf, has been able to provide solid reasoning for why firing from cloak is so bad that it should be considered broken, or breaks the game. Until you provide actual reasoning for it, its not a fact, it's your opinion. And the fact that you've focused exclusively on that single point issue of firing from cloak instead of talking about any other problems with the implementation, or the failure to address actual issues with scouts, lead me to believe that you're not being entirely transparent in your claims. Edit: Just one quick update. Apologies if it seems like this is coming across as antagonistic, that's not my intent. Just trying to understand the situation. Is a start https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DUvjuvKeak CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 230	Posted - 2014.01.13 05:55:00 - [318] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Is a start https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DUvjuvKeak No. Not even vaguely. Once again, this has nothing to do with the situation at hand. Someone hacking COD to be invisible and invincible has nothing to do with the explicit introduction of a stealth mechanic into a game, particularly where there are known hard and soft counters that compliment the introduction. You're just making things worse. I'll explain this again for the cheap seats: Just write down what the problem is and why cloaking, and specifically firing from cloak, is so inherently broken that you're trying to sabotage it's implementation since you're unable to stop it coming into game. No hypotheticals, no links off site, just the straight facts as you see them. If cloaking is that big a problem, it shouldn't be so hard to explain. And if you find that you have to resort to hyperbole and fear-mongering to get your point across, then maybe you need to reconsider your position.
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 717	Posted - 2014.01.13 05:58:00 - [319] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: The fact of the matter is firing while cloaked is a bad mechanic for everyone. Also, the fact that CCP is wrapping up the performance of a scout and "fixing" it with a cloak is problematic. not really. now, taking the power of scouts, wrapping it in "the one true scout object".... AND THEN GIVING IT TO OTHER CLASSES... Now THAT, is a problem.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12010	Posted - 2014.01.13 06:15:00 - [320] - Quote Brokerib wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Is a start https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DUvjuvKeak No. Not even vaguely. Once again, this has nothing to do with the situation at hand. Someone hacking COD to be invisible and invincible has nothing to do with the explicit introduction of a stealth mechanic into a game, particularly where there are known hard and soft counters that compliment the introduction. You're just making things worse. I'll explain this again for the cheap seats: Just write down what the problem is and why cloaking, and specifically firing from cloak, is so inherently broken that you're trying to sabotage it's implementation since you're unable to stop it coming into game. No hypotheticals, no links off site, just the straight facts as you see them. If cloaking is that big a problem, it shouldn't be so hard to explain. And if you find that you have to resort to hyperbole and fear-mongering to get your point across, then maybe you need to reconsider your position. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63Wx4_Dcd4Q This one is a non invincible one, Imagine yourself as ever one of those guys that got stabbed. You'd think with squad comms they'd knew there was an invisible guy running around. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked

Ralden Caster Omega Elite Mercs INC. 23	Posted - 2014.01.13 06:17:00 - [321] - Quote How about make it so that active scanners outline cloaked scouts in a red tint so you can detect them? And now the Forge Gun is little more than a dust collector, no pun intended.
George Moros Area 514 273	Posted - 2014.01.13 06:26:00 - [322] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: For me the whole idea of this game loses it's charm if people are forced into fittings, this is one of the reasons I did not like the idea of "Scout Only" on the cloak, though I feel more needs to be done to balance the equipment and suits out for play. I just can't say to much about it until I actually have information, when that info drops I will be giving my full opinion on it. I don't see a problem if scouts are "forced" to use cloaks. But note that in the strictest sense, you aren't forced to use anything, except fitting at least one weapon. However, some fitting choices make more sense than others, which is perfectly logical. For instance, you can fit a heavy with nova knives and profile dampeners, and try to play as a scout. There's no mechanic forcing you to use a HMG or forge, or anything else. The only thing "forcing" you is your common sense. If scouts are meant to be used with cloaks, so be it. There are entire ship classes in EVE (covert ops, force recons, etc.) that are designed to use cloaks in the same sense scouts seem to will be. They get skill bonuses to fitting cloaks, and other cloak-specific abilities that other ship classes do not have. But in principle, you don't have to fit a cloak on those ships if you don't want to. It only makes (much) more sense if you do. And nobody is having an issue with that. The potential problem is fitting cloaks on non-scouts. If fitting a cloak on non-scout dropsuit turns out to be a viable option (meaning, CPU/PG cost will be tolerable for other classes), then DUST could quickly turn to ninja-land, and that will brake the game more than anything. EVE resolved this by making 2 types of cloaking devices - one for ships that are meant to be cloaky, and the other for everything else. The former being far better and useable than the latter, of course. Pulvereus ergo queritor.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12010	Posted - 2014.01.13 06:36:00 - [323] - Quote Ralden Caster wrote: How about make it so that active scanners outline cloaked scouts in a red tint so you can detect them? and that would make cloaks a bit too useless. The number one topic about the imbalance of crysis 2 and 3 is cloaks despite the counter tools which vastly outperform the active scanner mechanic wise, as well as their cloaks are pretty heavily nerfed (like no shields when disrupted out of it) despite this , its the most lauded and hated feature of the multiplayer and has been the lynch pin from acknowledging the rest of the mp experience in both of those games are lackluster. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Zekain K Expert Intervention Caldari State 1023	Posted - 2014.01.13 07:05:00 - [324] - Quote I just want to point out that the current cloak method that cco wants to implement is actually almost identical to the active cloaking in halo: reach, and halo 4. If you move too much, you shimmer. If you fire your weapon, you de-cloak for a second, then the field stabilizes. You can't really be seen when sitting still. Do you guys want to know how they balanced that? They scrambled the radar of everyone else that is around them. Phantom red does would appear in their radar, and your travel around the actual target in random paths. That is all it took to turn a potentially overpowered armor ability into a almost useless one. If you see a clump of red dots, throw a grenade at it, then shoot the cloaked enemy as he tries to run. A smart player could actually use it to conceal the movements of his team. You could sacrifice your suit to keep your squad safe from scanners. Use its weakness as a means of defense against the soon to be over powered scanners. First shots had far more meaning in halo then it does in this game. But there is one thing that halo did not have to deal with, and that us the red line. *CALDARI not so MASTER RACE* Forum Warrior Level: 10
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 232	Posted - 2014.01.13 07:20:00 - [325] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63Wx4_Dcd4Q This one is a non invincible one, Imagine yourself as ever one of those guys that got stabbed. You'd think with squad comms they'd knew there was an invisible guy running around. 0/10, would not read again. You've managed to almost exactly replicate your previous post, while providing exactly zero information on what this has to do with the dust implementation. Here's my response again, as you appear to have missed it. Updated for the new video and underlined. Brokerib wrote: Once again, this has nothing to do with the situation at hand. Someone hacking BF4 to be invisible has nothing to do with the explicit introduction of a stealth mechanic into a game, particularly where there are known hard and soft counters that compliment the introduction. You're just making things worse. I'll explain this again for the cheap seats: Just write down what the problem is and why cloaking, and specifically firing from cloak, is so inherently broken that you're trying to sabotage it's implementation since you're unable to stop it coming into game. No hypotheticals, no links off site, just the straight facts as you see them. If cloaking is that big a problem, it shouldn't be so hard to explain. And if you find that you have to resort to hyperbole and fear-mongering to get your point across, then maybe you need to reconsider your position. If the CPM is going to put out a call for arms and try to rally the community to their side then they should, at minimum: be able to explain the issue clearly and succinctly respond with fact or opinion without resorting to hyperbole So far you're 0/2.
Llast 326 An Arkhos 1292	Posted - 2014.01.13 07:55:00 - [326] - Quote George Moros wrote: Llast 326 wrote: For me the whole idea of this game loses it's charm if people are forced into fittings, this is one of the reasons I did not like the idea of "Scout Only" on the cloak, though I feel more needs to be done to balance the equipment and suits out for play. I just can't say to much about it until I actually have information, when that info drops I will be giving my full opinion on it. I don't see a problem if scouts are "forced" to use cloaks. But note that in the strictest sense, you aren't forced to use anything, except fitting at least one weapon. However, some fitting choices make more sense than others, which is perfectly logical. For instance, you can fit a heavy with nova knives and profile dampeners, and try to play as a scout. There's no mechanic forcing you to use a HMG or forge, or anything else. The only thing "forcing" you is your common sense. If scouts are meant to be used with cloaks, so be it. There are entire ship classes in EVE (covert ops, force recons, etc.) that are designed to use cloaks in the same sense scouts seem to will be. They get skill bonuses to fitting cloaks, and other cloak-specific abilities that other ship classes do not have. But in principle, you don't have to fit a cloak on those ships if you don't want to. It only makes (much) more sense if you do. And nobody is having an issue with that. The potential problem is fitting cloaks on non-scouts. If fitting a cloak on non-scout dropsuit turns out to be a viable option (meaning, CPU/PG cost will be tolerable for other classes), then DUST could quickly turn to ninja-land, and that will break the game more than anything. EVE resolved this by making 2 types of cloaking devices - one for ships that are meant to be cloaky, and the other for everything else. The former being far better and useable than the latter, of course. What you say makes sense on many levels, and I share the concerns about other suits easily fitting the cloak. (It is likely a very easy fit for Logi) One concern with the cloak being a "mandatory" fit is that scouts only have one equipment slot, and extremely low ability to fit anything at this point. If scouts can only fit a cloak, and are only "viable" with one, it actually severely limits the versatility and roles that can already be performed. Your example of the NK wielding heavy is very different from a scout only being able to use a cloak. The Heavy still has a number of options open to them where as, if cloak becomes the only viable choice it is eliminating options for the scout suit. Heavies can fit heavy weapons, but it is not required for the fitting to function, that is a very different scenario. KRRROOOOOOM
jerrmy12 kahoalii The Phoenix Federation 345	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:09:00 - [327] - Quote Ralden Caster wrote: How about make it so that active scanners outline cloaked scouts in a red tint so you can detect them? lets also make it seen from 20m on 9/10 maps and make it so your jump is 12 feet in the air and make you take 50% more damage I use a tablet so beware of typos
jerrmy12 kahoalii The Phoenix Federation 345	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:12:00 - [328] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63Wx4_Dcd4Q This one is a non invincible one, Imagine yourself as ever one of those guys that got stabbed. You'd think with squad comms they'd knew there was an invisible guy running around exept NK's wont ohk or lock like that exept they will shimmer exept 1 sneeze kills a scout. I use a tablet so beware of typos
Shion Typhon Intara Direct Action Caldari State 361	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:41:00 - [329] - Quote Brokerib wrote: Kain Spero wrote: The fact of the matter is firing while cloaked is a bad mechanic for everyone. Also, the fact that CCP is wrapping up the performance of a scout and "fixing" it with a cloak is problematic. Dust is more than about one role and one style of play. Thinking that making sure the cloak lands in a way that is not damaging to the game as whole is some sort of attack on a particular role is short sighted at best. I agree with everything you've said except the first sentence. Kain Spero wrote: The fact of the matter is firing while cloaked is a bad mechanic for everyone. Neither you, nor anyone else calling for a nerf, has been able to provide solid reasoning for why firing from cloak is so bad that it should be considered broken, or breaks the game. Until you provide actual reasoning for it, its not a fact, it's your opinion. And the fact that you've focused exclusively on that single point issue of firing from cloak instead of talking about any other problems with the implementation, or the failure to address actual issues with scouts, lead me to believe that you're not being entirely transparent in your claims. Edit: Just one quick update. Apologies if it seems like this is coming across as antagonistic, that's not my intent. Just trying to understand the situation. Because this is what you can do in a game with all those restrictions about not firing with cloaks are present, now double or triple that carnage. I've done this plenty of times, I specialise as a CQC Infiltrator in PS2
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 233	Posted - 2014.01.13 09:02:00 - [330] - Quote Shion Typhon wrote: Because this is what you can do in a game with all those restrictions about not firing with cloaks are present, now double or triple that carnage. I've done this plenty of times, I specialise as a CQC Infiltrator in PS2 Why double or triple that carnage? Here's a link to what we currently know about the dust cloak and it's function. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1709951#post1709951 As to your video, it does indeed look unbalanced. But has very little to do with Dust. From what we do know, someone trying to run through a group of mercs like that would be 'shimmering', so would be noticeable. How noticeable, we don't know yet, because we haven't seen it in action. We also know that firing from cloak will result in you de-cloaking, and the device going into re-charge. Currently we don't know what the cool down time is, so there's no way to say if you can re-cloak that quickly and I won't comment on my opinion. Nothing we know would indicate that the implementation would be anything like the one you've shown, and basing a discussion and nerf requests on what other games are doing is no basis for a rational decision.

George Moros Area 514 274	Posted - 2014.01.13 09:36:00 - [331] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: What you say makes sense on many levels, and I share the concerns about other suits easily fitting the cloak. (It is likely a very easy fit for Logi) One concern with the cloak being a "mandatory" fit is that scouts only have one equipment slot, and extremely low ability to fit anything at this point. If scouts can only fit a cloak, and are only "viable" with one, it actually severely limits the versatility and roles that can already be performed. Your example of the NK wielding heavy is very different from a scout only being able to use a cloak. The Heavy still has a number of options open to them where as, if cloak becomes the only viable choice it is eliminating options for the scout suit. Heavies can fit heavy weapons, but it is not required for the fitting to function, that is a very different scenario. We currently don't know if scout dropsuit will have same slot layouts and CPU/PG as before. However, if they do, then 1 equipment slot they have is in essence reserved for cloak, which means they will effectively have no equipment slots. This will make scouts useable only for assassination-style gameplay which, in principle, I've got nothing against except for the fact that the term "scout" is then misleading. I think CCP should consider introducing other light dropsuit roles. Maybe the current layout should be called "assassin", and a "scout" should have 2 equipment slots, and possibly only i sidearm. One other thing to consider (I don't know if anyone mentioned this in this, or other cloak-related threads): Will cloaked mercs be visible to friendly troops or not? If yes, in what way? Will they be fully visible, as if not wearing cloak at all, or will there some other way of making friendlies know where they are? This is especially important in FW, where friendly fire is enabled. What if I see a cloak shimmer in front of me, and (naturally) fire a burst in that direction, only to find out I just killed a cloaked friendly? Pulvereus ergo queritor.
hgghyujh Expert Intervention Caldari State 217	Posted - 2014.01.13 10:30:00 - [332] - Quote helll no that should not be possible, I would even go so far as to say their should be a weapons lock for a short duration afterwards unless you you are running something akin to the COV OPS cloak in eve. I do actually like what little Ive pickup about it reading suit bonuses.
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2600	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:20:00 - [333] - Quote Firing while cloaked allows a player to alpha strike and get the upper hand in an engagement and deny the player under attack the ability to respond to the threat effectively. It essentially creates an I-win tool for winning a firefight in many situations especially with the current time to kill. It basically adds a gimmicky mechanic to a tool that could potentially bring a lot of tactical variation to the battlefield. Shooting while cloaked will turn it into something that decreases the enjoyment and how fun Dust is on a whole. I'm already concerned with how much cloaks will slow down the game even if they have no ability to shoot while cloaked. The ability to shoot while cloaked just pushes the mechanic over the top. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news

CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 4254	Posted - 2014.01.13 15:01:00 - [334] - Quote We're aware of the concerns, and it's still something in development. CCP Logibro // EVE Universe Community Team // Distributor of Nanites // Patron Saint of Logistics

Justicar Karnellia Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 566	Posted - 2014.01.13 15:25:00 - [335] - Quote Brokerib wrote: Shion Typhon wrote: Because this is what you can do in a game with all those restrictions about not firing with cloaks are present, now double or triple that carnage. I've done this plenty of times, I specialise as a CQC Infiltrator in PS2 Why double or triple that carnage? Here's a link to what we currently know about the dust cloak and it's function. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1709951#post1709951 As to your video, it does indeed look unbalanced. But has very little to do with Dust. From what we do know, someone trying to run through a group of mercs like that would be 'shimmering', so would be noticeable. How noticeable, we don't know yet, because we haven't seen it in action. We also know that firing from cloak will result in you de-cloaking, and the device going into re-charge. Currently we don't know what the cool down time is, so there's no way to say if you can re-cloak that quickly and I won't comment on my opinion. Nothing we know would indicate that the implementation would be anything like the one you've shown, and basing a discussion and nerf requests on what other games are doing is no basis for a rational decision. This is pretty rational. Until someone's playtested it we don't know how well the mechanic will work in practice and considering the exact specifics aren't even nailed down yet, even theoretical conjecture isn't really useful. I think even when it is implemented, there'll be other uses/exploits of the mechanic that may be discovered that no one every thought of, and it's only then that they can move to change it or hotfix it if it's really breaking the game - that being said there are many completely irrational features that made it into the game first and only after a bit of use figures showed there was indeed a problem (list your favourite here: murder taxis, flaylocks, etc.) Of course, this again produces the demand for a comprehensive test server for Dust - but that's another thread entirely. :)
commando biffle Shadow Company HQ 10	Posted - 2014.01.13 15:37:00 - [336] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Firing while cloaked allows a player to alpha strike and get the upper hand in an engagement and deny the player under attack the ability to respond to the threat effectively. It essentially creates an I-win tool for winning a firefight in many situations especially with the current time to kill. It basically adds a gimmicky mechanic to a tool that could potentially bring a lot of tactical variation to the battlefield. Shooting while cloaked will turn it into something that decreases the enjoyment and how fun Dust is on a whole. I'm already concerned with how much cloaks will slow down the game even if they have no ability to shoot while cloaked. The ability to shoot while cloaked just pushes the mechanic over the top. it's like that right now just flank a gay and shoot
Zekain K Expert Intervention Caldari State 1025	Posted - 2014.01.13 16:18:00 - [337] - Quote commando biffle wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Firing while cloaked allows a player to alpha strike and get the upper hand in an engagement and deny the player under attack the ability to respond to the threat effectively. It essentially creates an I-win tool for winning a firefight in many situations especially with the current time to kill. It basically adds a gimmicky mechanic to a tool that could potentially bring a lot of tactical variation to the battlefield. Shooting while cloaked will turn it into something that decreases the enjoyment and how fun Dust is on a whole. I'm already concerned with how much cloaks will slow down the game even if they have no ability to shoot while cloaked. The ability to shoot while cloaked just pushes the mechanic over the top. it's like that right now just flank a gay and shoot Not cool. *CALDARI not so MASTER RACE* Forum Warrior Level: 10
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12011	Posted - 2014.01.13 16:44:00 - [338] - Quote Brokerib wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63Wx4_Dcd4Q This one is a non invincible one, Imagine yourself as ever one of those guys that got stabbed. You'd think with squad comms they'd knew there was an invisible guy running around. 0/10, would not read again. You've managed to almost exactly replicate your previous post, while providing exactly zero information on what this has to do with the dust implementation. Here's my response again, as you appear to have missed it. Updated for the new video and underlined. Brokerib wrote: Once again, this has nothing to do with the situation at hand. Someone hacking BF4 to be invisible has nothing to do with the explicit introduction of a stealth mechanic into a game, particularly where there are known hard and soft counters that compliment the introduction. You're just making things worse. I'll explain this again for the cheap seats: Just write down what the problem is and why cloaking, and specifically firing from cloak, is so inherently broken that you're trying to sabotage it's implementation since you're unable to stop it coming into game. No hypotheticals, no links off site, just the straight facts as you see them. If cloaking is that big a problem, it shouldn't be so hard to explain. And if you find that you have to resort to hyperbole and fear-mongering to get your point across, then maybe you need to reconsider your position. If the CPM is going to put out a call for arms and try to rally the community to their side then they should, at minimum: be able to explain the issue clearly and succinctly respond with fact or opinion without resorting to hyperbole be able to justify their position So far you're 0/3. Edit: updated to include an additional minimum. Problem is we had done so and people like yourself dismiss it. Excessively poor cloaking mechanics are exceptionally unfun for those who don't cloak. If you do not understand the frustration in dealing with cloaked players, try playing crysis 2 or 3, or even defiance pvp where it is a exceptional problem over there. (AKA you're labeled a noob if you do anything else) On the flip side Cloaking fittings and the way of implementation is ultimately a scout nerf Despite scouts getting bonuses to cloak and cloaking performance it does not make up for the fit neutering and ultimately suits like the logistics or assaults even will have more play room left over and will continue to outperform the scouts. The supposive counter using active scanner play overnerfed the scouts further since none of them will be able to achieve the stealth levels required and ultimately pre-nerfs the cloaks into oblivion as everyone will be training the scanner up more than ever. There are hundreds of ways to go about nerfing the cloak so its appealing to a lighter class and not the heavier ones but so far I have yet to see anything worthwhile from most of the opposition. Also recommended reading over the subject https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=search&postedby=CCP+Remnant&devbadge=1&gmbadge=1 CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Minmatar Citizen 3173120 Xpert Intervention 86	Posted - 2014.01.13 17:21:00 - [339] - Quote If cloaks come in, I demand xray goggles! I refuse to be rapped by casper. Not cool!
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 944	Posted - 2014.01.13 18:22:00 - [340] - Quote Dammit Spero, I miss the old days when nothing but trolls and egotistical posts came outta Imps. Not this logical community minded crap. You need to get Zitro and Omni Zitro back in here to mix things up, you and steadyhand are ruining my nostalgia. Reggy's the only troll holdout I see left, and even he's been helpful over the last few months /signed (Does ReFlex still play? I've not seen him since Chromosome... ) Buff passive scans & fix TTK! My Closed Beta Alts - Overlord Ulath, Overlord Bosse, Overlord Zero

Orin the Freak The Solecism of Limitation 678	Posted - 2014.01.13 18:44:00 - [341] - Quote First off, I agree 100% with Kain and the majority of others here. NO fire while cloaked. I really like the idea of you having to hold the cloaking device in your hand (possible explanation: to constantly monitor the field and adjust it's frequency or some such thing) for the cloak to be active. To unequip it, you must first deactivate it (by pressing fire again), the module goes on cooldown, then you can switch. Thus, there will be roughly a 1 - 1.5 second delay (possibly less for higher-tier modules) before you can fire a weapon, or use other equipment. then, you can bring out the module, but can't activate the cloak again until it's done cooling down. As others have mentioned, down the road there should be a "black ops" scout variant, that can perhaps somehow speed up the decloak to fire process. but thats for another patch.
Long Evity 1008	Posted - 2014.01.13 18:45:00 - [342] - Quote Orin the Freak wrote: First off, I agree 100% with Kain and the majority of others here. NO fire while cloaked. I really like the idea of you having to hold the cloaking device in your hand (possible explanation: to constantly monitor the field and adjust it's frequency or some such thing) for the cloak to be active. To unequip it, you must first deactivate it (by pressing fire again), the module goes on cooldown, then you can switch. Thus, there will be roughly a 1 - 1.5 second delay before you can fire a weapon, or use other equipment. then, you can bring out the module, but can't activate the cloak again until it's done cooling down. As others have mentioned, down the road there should be a "black ops" scout variant, that can perhaps somehow speed up the decloak to fire process. but thats for another patch. Holy shut. ORIN LIVES?!??! - SoTa PoP I am not who you think I am, only but just a dream.
Orin the Freak The Solecism of Limitation 678	Posted - 2014.01.13 18:46:00 - [343] - Quote Long Evity wrote: Orin the Freak wrote: First off, I agree 100% with Kain and the majority of others here. NO fire while cloaked. I really like the idea of you having to hold the cloaking device in your hand (possible explanation: to constantly monitor the field and adjust it's frequency or some such thing) for the cloak to be active. To unequip it, you must first deactivate it (by pressing fire again), the module goes on cooldown, then you can switch. Thus, there will be roughly a 1 - 1.5 second delay before you can fire a weapon, or use other equipment. then, you can bring out the module, but can't activate the cloak again until it's done cooling down. As others have mentioned, down the road there should be a "black ops" scout variant, that can perhaps somehow speed up the decloak to fire process. but thats for another patch. Holy shut. ORIN LIVES?!??! - SoTa PoP Let's not get ahead of ourselves. I play DUST. Thats far from living. :/ at any rate, o/ SoTa :)
Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6414	Posted - 2014.01.13 18:50:00 - [344] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: We're aware of the concerns, and it's still something in development. OMG a Blue Tag! OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6414	Posted - 2014.01.13 18:52:00 - [345] - Quote I'm starting to have another round of second thoughts on the cloak. Now I'm not sure how it should be implemented in regards to how cloak should be held. Man, I'm becoming more of a flip flop than Sen. John Kerry. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 947	Posted - 2014.01.13 19:11:00 - [346] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: I'm starting to have another round of second thoughts on the cloak. Now I'm not sure how it should be implemented in regards to how cloak should be held. Man, I'm becoming more of a flip flop than Sen. John Kerry. Danger! Danger! Flip-Flop level "John Kerry" now passed! Aporaching "Mitt Romney" levels! Danger! Danger! Buff passive scans & fix TTK! My Closed Beta Alts - Overlord Ulath, Overlord Bosse, Overlord Zero
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2605	Posted - 2014.01.13 19:59:00 - [347] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Dammit Spero, I miss the old days when nothing but trolls and egotistical posts came outta Imps. Not this logical community minded crap. You need to get Zitro and Omni Zitro back in here to mix things up, you and steadyhand are ruining my nostalgia. Reggy's the only troll holdout I see left, and even he's been helpful over the last few months /signed (Does ReFlex still play? I've not seen him since Chromosome... ) ReFlex has actually been trying out the assault dropship. Many IMPs have always had an eye to improving the game as a whole. Our trolls just happen to be some of the loudest and the hardest hitting. The Zitros are definitely missed. ....... Whether or not the cloak has to be held the whole time it's active I don't know. As long as you can't shoot at the same time you are cloaked is my main sticking point. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER TeamPlayers 2641	Posted - 2014.01.13 20:02:00 - [348] - Quote having to hold it would ensure someone cant figure out a workaround to shooting while cloaked... and rest assured, if theres a way, it will happen. just the nature of the beast. make it something u have to equip, solve a pile of problems before they ever surface. OR... do what normally happens, allowing things to become an exploit without simple countermeasures implemented beforehand... and long as u keep Telcontar off the forums its a small win.. for everyone Common Sense and *Logic* are 2 things you have to forget when posting on these forums.
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 237	Posted - 2014.01.13 21:27:00 - [349] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Firing while cloaked allows a player to alpha strike and get the upper hand in an engagement and deny the player under attack the ability to respond to the threat effectively. It essentially creates an I-win tool for winning a firefight in many situations especially with the current time to kill. It basically adds a gimmicky mechanic to a tool that could potentially bring a lot of tactical variation to the battlefield. Shooting while cloaked will turn it into something that decreases the enjoyment and how fun Dust is on a whole. I'm already concerned with how much cloaks will slow down the game even if they have no ability to shoot while cloaked. The ability to shoot while cloaked just pushes the mechanic over the top. Thank you for a reasonable response Kain. Are you about to explain how the ability to alpha strike from cloak differs from the ability to alpha strike using a sniper fit or REs? Also, can you explain what you mean by "cloaks will show down the game".
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 237	Posted - 2014.01.13 21:38:00 - [350] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber Problem is we had done so and people like yourself dismiss it. [* wrote: Excessively poor cloaking mechanics are exceptionally unfun for those who don't cloak. If you do not understand the frustration in dealing with cloaked players, try playing crysis 2 or 3, or even defiance pvp where it is a exceptional problem over there. (AKA you're labeled a noob if you do anything else) On the flip side Cloaking fittings and the way of implementation is ultimately a scout nerf Despite scouts getting bonuses to cloak and cloaking performance it does not make up for the fit neutering and ultimately suits like the logistics or assaults even will have more play room left over and will continue to outperform the scouts. The supposive counter using active scanner play overnerfed the scouts further since none of them will be able to achieve the stealth levels required and ultimately pre-nerfs the cloaks into oblivion as everyone will be training the scanner up more than ever. There are hundreds of ways to go about nerfing the cloak so its appealing to a lighter class and not the heavier ones but so far I have yet to see anything worthwhile from most of the opposition other than stonewalling which suggests they want it removed. Also recommended reading over the subject https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=search&postedby=CCP+Remnant&devbadge=1&gmbadge=1 Thanks for an actual response. Can you explain what about the dust mechanics make them "excessively poor"? Can you explain how any of the nerfs you have suggested will benefit scouts? To all appearances, you have been advocating breaking the cloak, not fixing the scout, so while I agree with some of your points it would be disingenuous to suggest that you started off this action with scouts in mind.

The Robot Devil molon labe. Public Disorder. 1546	Posted - 2014.01.13 21:47:00 - [351] - Quote I do think that giving the scout suits a cloak bonus is a nerf to the suit. Light frames are hard to use and easy to kill and a cloak bonus takes up a bonus that could be use on something else and they lose a slot that they desperately need. There are not enough light frames in the game and this just makes the scout even more useless. I don't like the idea that cloaks should have a finite cloak time. I don't like that cloaks will only be scouts or will be so restrictive that other suits are useless with one. I don't think super high fitting costs is that great of an idea because we shouldn't be using price or resource draw to control what items are being used. Yes, in EVE the Covert Ops cloak can only really use on covert ops ships but those ships have a role bonus that doesn't take another bonus out. I would much rather see the cloak come with stats that makes it useless without bonuses. I might want to run a cloak on my Amarr assaut but I can't because it is a scout item? That kind of flies in the face of the concept of fitting your suit how you want to fit your play style. Have the cool down be excessive so that weapons can't be fired within 6 seconds of decloak or something in that vein. If a team of heavies and logi want to stealth their way to an objective around the edge of the map then they are out of luck because they either won't be able to fit a cloak or if they do will not be combat effective. I do agree that scouts should use them a little better and I do agree that being able to fire while cloaked isn't good but denying entire classes the ability to fit a cloak is bad also. Dust will be missing out on emergent game play, the meta game and loads of tactics if a cloak is restricted to one frame size. I feel that buy gearing them towards scouts we are limiting the players. Have the cloak reduce speed, increase weapon switch time, have a timer that doesn't allow one to hack for a second or two after decloak or some drawback that punishes everyone the same way and then bonus the light frames to alleviate the punishment. Cloaks should be able to used on any suit if you are willing to give up the slot. I would know that a heavy could be cloaked around the corner but at the same time I would know that he has to wait 3 seconds(or some other amount of time) and is short a module on his suit. I have read precious few posts that make the cloak sound like a good idea, again the problem is that there is not enough light frames to make it interesting. I see a scout and know that they are still junk and even more so because they have no combat bonuses. We have relegated the scout suit and Light frames to nothing more than a hide and go seek game. GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride." Hunter S. Thompson
Nova Knife Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 2251	Posted - 2014.01.13 22:54:00 - [352] - Quote Brokerib wrote: Neither you, nor anyone else calling for a nerf, has been able to provide solid reasoning for why firing from cloak is so bad that it should be considered broken, or breaks the game. Until you provide actual reasoning for it, its not a fact, it's your opinion. . I'll jump in here and try to break this down, then. The CPM is unanimous that cloaks as currently described are poor for balance and the overall health of the game. What constitutes fair balance, though? Should everything have the exact same stats and be able to kill everything equally? Not at all. In this instance... "Fair" in an FPS game constitutes a player having the ability of being aware how they died, and being able to learn and adapt so as not to die the same way again. Knowing who killed them and how is an important tool, as well is knowing how they could've avoided it. In the case of someone sneaking up behind someone, they are taking advantage of their own situational awareness while using the lack thereof in their victim. The victim can then take from that death "Maybe I should've been looking around more as I ran along the map" In this sense, melee and 'stealth' builds are completely fair, as a friendly teammate spotting or just better situational awareness can prevent all but the sneakiest of sneakers. In regards to the hot button point of firing while cloaked : There is nothing wrong with being able to fire on an unaware enemy. To say otherwise might as well be saying everyone should be on their enemies' maps all the time because "stealth is OP" (lol) However, (IMO) fairness dictates that anyone about to take an offensive position should also be vulnerable to counterattack at that same time. The cloak somewhat (though not completely) invalidates this point, as it provides a measure of safety both before (and after, if activated after firing rather than before) that prevents this opportunity except in the rarest of cases. It is the CPM's position that cloaks should be a tool used to escape, evade, and outmaneuver an enemy force, rather than a tool to be used actively in combat. We feel that this style of cloaking would maintain or even improve the pace of the game, and go a long way towards eliminating redline situations. Building on that last point, brings me to the second point of dispute among the CPM (Not unanimously agreed) The shimmer effect should only be present or "super visible" when one is sprinting. To do otherwise (Killzone 3 cloaking) only encourages campy, slow-paced playstyles as those are the only ways to use a cloak to maximum effect. This would result in cloaked players generally hovering around single objectives or spawn points, waiting for something to do instead of encouraging cloaked players to be highly mobile gameplay drivers who give OTHER players something to do. I will happily discuss any of these points with anyone who feels they have a reasonable argument against them. For added reference, I will paste the following from an internal CPM thread regarding my own views on the overal goals and "Should/ Should nots" of cloaks. Nova Knife wrote: Basic goal of cloaks should ultimately be to escape, evade, or maneuver into superior position. They should not be a direct tool to be used in active combat, but rather one of mobility. To achieve this, the cloaks should Be an equipment that must be held in one's hands to remain active Have a very audible and recognizable sound when first engaged and when disengaged Have a minimum 20 second cooldown that begins upon deactivation (Increased duration if forcibly decloaked by enemy fire or otherwise taking damage) No maximum active duration Affect speed. Non-Scout suits should move at roughly a 25% decrease to speed. Create very small, yet visible distortion around the cloaked player (not a perfect 'human' outline). Only amplifies to become super visible when sprinting Be directly countered by scanners depending on range and precision. Assuming equal values, at short (30m or less) range the scanner should beat the cloak. At long ranges the cloak should beat the scan. Disable Melee, or carry a steep (minimum 90%) penalty to melee damage while carried. When used on an air vehicle, all weapons and other modules should be disabled and prevented from being activated for the duration of the cloak and for an additional (minimum 15s) timer afterwards. (Higher tiers of cloaks can reduce delay) When used on an air vehicle, flying below a certain altitude should immediately decloak the vehicle. Provide points to a cloaked player if they evade a scan, conversely provide points to a scanner if they reveal a cloaked player to their team. (Scanned players should not be decloaked, but highlighted visually with a much greater distortion than usual which would be visible to players on both teams) Or at the very least, the cloaks SHOULD NOT Allow a player to equip, aim, or fire a weapon while activated Allow a player to regenerate armor or shields, or receive any remote effects while cloak is active and for a short duration after becoming visible Be limited to only a certain class of suit or have abnormally high fitting requirements. All suits should be able to cloak, effectiveness with a cloak should be determined by speed stats and scan profiles. Be accessible to any ground vehicles. None of the ground vehicles currently in the game would contribute positively to gameplay if allowed to cloak. Have visual distortion based on regular movement speed. (See Killzone 3 cloaks for reference on how to /not/ do cloaks) Cloaks which encourage standing still for maximum effect only lead to campy, unfun playstyles. Players should be encouraged to move around while cloaking to aid their team.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12018	Posted - 2014.01.13 23:06:00 - [353] - Quote Brokerib wrote: Iron Wolf Saber Problem is we had done so and people like yourself dismiss it. [* wrote: Excessively poor cloaking mechanics are exceptionally unfun for those who don't cloak. If you do not understand the frustration in dealing with cloaked players, try playing crysis 2 or 3, or even defiance pvp where it is a exceptional problem over there. (AKA you're labeled a noob if you do anything else) On the flip side Cloaking fittings and the way of implementation is ultimately a scout nerf Despite scouts getting bonuses to cloak and cloaking performance it does not make up for the fit neutering and ultimately suits like the logistics or assaults even will have more play room left over and will continue to outperform the scouts. The supposive counter using active scanner play overnerfed the scouts further since none of them will be able to achieve the stealth levels required and ultimately pre-nerfs the cloaks into oblivion as everyone will be training the scanner up more than ever. There are hundreds of ways to go about nerfing the cloak so its appealing to a lighter class and not the heavier ones but so far I have yet to see anything worthwhile from most of the opposition other than stonewalling which suggests they want it removed. Also recommended reading over the subject https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=search&postedby=CCP+Remnant&devbadge=1&gmbadge=1 Thanks for an actual response. Can you explain what about the dust mechanics make them "excessively poor"? Can you explain how any of the nerfs you have suggested will benefit scouts? To all appearances, you have been advocating breaking the cloak, not fixing the scout, so while I agree with some of your points it would be disingenuous to suggest that you started off this action with scouts in mind. Nova Knife pointed out what I truly wanted to say though. If done poorly the cloaks will offer little to no chances of learning on the victim's part and can even disadvantage a class entirely if they don't have the proper knowledge or tools (for example heavies still don't have scanners) Case in point, snipers, while they can attack while at their own advantage, the victim has plenty of room to learn to avoid dying another time, placing cover between him and the sniper, getting a counter snipe or even using an orbital bombardment if he cant reach the guy on foot. Most infantry can quickly ID where sniper shots are coming from and quickly surmise where the sniper is because despite the trail effect being weak, there is one. Snipers in turn can learn when its a good time to leave that spot because their gig is up. The sniper hunter then has to re adjust for that all and think where would be the next spot the sniper might have gone to. With cloaks, if it was done very poorly, there is little chance to learn or pre-act against the threat at times as to many of the cards are in the hands of the victim. It be like playing poker with one person having 2 cards and the cloaker having 5. There are plenty of options on the table from other games on how they 'tried' to balance it but I know some won't work here, for example crysis disrupted penalty gets rid of shields. That wouldn't work in dust 514. Others are more reliant on mechanics that probably don't exist yet, for example we don't have thermal scopes. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
goerf DUST University Ivy League 7	Posted - 2014.01.13 23:30:00 - [354] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Dear CCP and the Community of Dust 514, I would like it to be made publicly and clearly known that the CPM does not support the ability to fire a weapon while cloaked. If you support this (and even if you don't) I encourage you to post your thoughts so that CCP can hear our voices and change the course away from what would be a game-breaking mechanic. The devil is always in the details, but I think we can all agree that firing while cloaking is a line in the sand that CCP must not cross. /signed Kain Spero of CPM 0 Agreed To use a weapon you must de-cloak it seems logical You get unseen movement - how big an advantage does a scout need?
The Robot Devil molon labe. Public Disorder. 1547	Posted - 2014.01.14 00:55:00 - [355] - Quote To achieve this, the cloaks should Be an equipment that must be held in one's hands to remain active Have a very audible and recognizable sound when first engaged and when disengaged Have a minimum 20 second cooldown that begins upon deactivation (Increased duration if forcibly decloaked by enemy fire or otherwise taking damage) No maximum active duration Affect speed. Non-Scout suits should move at roughly a 25% decrease to speed. Create very small, yet visible distortion around the cloaked player (not a perfect 'human' outline). Only amplifies to become super visible when sprinting Be directly countered by scanners depending on range and precision. Assuming equal values, at short (30m or less) range the scanner should beat the cloak. At long ranges the cloak should beat the scan. Disable Melee, or carry a steep (minimum 90%) penalty to melee damage while carried. When used on an air vehicle, all weapons and other modules should be disabled and prevented from being activated for the duration of the cloak and for an additional (minimum 15s) timer afterwards. (Higher tiers of cloaks can reduce delay) When used on an air vehicle, flying below a certain altitude should immediately decloak the vehicle. Provide points to a cloaked player if they evade a scan, conversely provide points to a scanner if they reveal a cloaked player to their team. (Scanned players should not be decloaked, but highlighted visually with a much greater distortion than usual which would be visible to players on both teams) Or at the very least, the cloaks SHOULD NOT Allow a player to equip, aim, or fire a weapon while activated Allow a player to regenerate armor or shields, or receive any remote effects while cloak is active and for a short duration after becoming visible Be limited to only a certain class of suit or have abnormally high fitting requirements. All suits should be able to cloak, effectiveness with a cloak should be determined by speed stats and scan profiles. Be accessible to any ground vehicles. None of the ground vehicles currently in the game would contribute positively to gameplay if allowed to cloak. Have visual distortion based on regular movement speed. (See Killzone 3 cloaks for reference on how to /not/ do cloaks) Cloaks which encourage standing still for maximum effect only lead to campy, unfun playstyles. Players should be encouraged to move around while cloaking to aid their team. Great list and I agree with almost all of them. The two I don't agree with is full invisibility while not moving and a minimum height for dropships. Here are the reasons why. If a merc is at an objective camping it and not moving then they should be invisible and I think the counter to this is partially the wait to fire time and the other main counter would be any weapon with splash damage. A mass driver, flux grenade or even just half a clip of random fire would probably decloak them or force them to move. Also, if they show up when pinged with an active scanner then there is no need to not allow full invisibility. Good teamwork and tactics should counter most cloaks in the long run. I don't like the minimum dropship height that much because they are loud and if you can't hear one hovering over the objective then you probably shouldn't be there, again, a well place round or even one random will decloak the ship. If I can't see the ship above me making all that noise all I have to do is shoot up in the air in the direction of the sound. Cloaks should be a powerful weapon but they shouldn't be unbearable and I think that there is enough direct counters to these two things. Great post, good discussion and I think it is productive as well. Keep up the hard work CPM. GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride." Hunter S. Thompson
MassiveNine 0uter.Heaven 763	Posted - 2014.01.14 00:59:00 - [356] - Quote So what about hacking while cloaked? I think it should be allowed. I mean if someone is at a letter and it starts getting hacked any decent player would know to huck a nade or start firing at the hack screen. Official DUST514 LAV Mechanic
DoomLead Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 255	Posted - 2014.01.14 01:00:00 - [357] - Quote I support this idea if it is a scout only mod and i say this as a true blue heavy
Onesimus Tarsus 793	Posted - 2014.01.14 01:01:00 - [358] - Quote I think heavy and medium suits shouldn't be able to shoot until their HP is as low as a scout's. I got my hand around the pistol grip, and the safety's off.
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 239	Posted - 2014.01.14 01:02:00 - [359] - Quote Thanks you Nova and IWS for the posts, they are both informative and explain the CPMs position. That said, I don't 100% agree with you, but that's to be expected as I have a vested interest in protecting the scout. This explains how I see the cloak working in practice. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1702679#post1702679 I see the cloak, as currently explained, as a mainly defensive item (stealth is the scouts armor and shields), that retains a limited ability to be offensive. I'd be happy to see loss of cloak on any sort of attack or usage of equipment, and the cloak recharge time extended (in the same way the shield recharge is extended when fully depleted) when broken in this way instead of through natural depletion. Many of the additional conditions that are being recommended for cloaks are excessive, and massively disadvantage the scout. Just off the top my head: The inability to cloak while shields or armor are depleted or repairing mean we can only use the cloak in pro-active situations, and not for active defence. Having to continually hold the item and having no ability to equip a weapon or piece of equipment mean that if we are caught by a hard or soft counter, we are unable to respond. Cool downs on the ability to shoot out of cloak similarly disadvantage us, as the TTK on scouts is shorter than any other suit. So if we're discovered and come under fire, any delay will almost certainly result in out death. Excessive sounds or tells mean that using the cloak will actually make the scout less stealthy than they are currently, and removes their purpose. I'm still wary of the CPMs motives and methods. IWS has already stated that he's doing everything he can to burn the cloak as he doesn't want it introduced into the game (https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1712542#post1712542). This is a position that will directly harm scouts, if the scout bunus changes go ahead as documented. I do think that there is an implementation that will leave the cloak as a useful and wanted piece of equipment, without damaging the overall meta. And I think that implementation is not that far from what CCP has already detailed. But ultra-nerfing the cloak before its introduced is excessive, and will only further marginalise the weakest suit in game.
DeathwindRising ROGUE SPADES 197	Posted - 2014.01.14 01:31:00 - [360] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Dear CCP and the Community of Dust 514, I would like it to be made publicly and clearly known that the CPM does not support the ability to fire a weapon while cloaked. If you support this (and even if you don't) I encourage you to post your thoughts so that CCP can hear our voices and change the course away from what would be a game-breaking mechanic. The devil is always in the details, but I think we can all agree that firing while cloaking is a line in the sand that CCP must not cross. /signed Kain Spero of CPM 0 we need to see how it works first. emptying wholes clips while cloak would be a bit much, but a few rounds would be alright with me. the passive scanning mechanics need reworking to go along with all this. and flux grenades need reworking too. their blast radius needs to be increased and anyone hit with a flux would instantly lose their cloak. basically, you scan the scout and a blip is in front of you but you dont see him, so you throw a flux and poof! there he is. the other thing is that you should need to half at least one shield hp to use the cloak. no shields, then no cloak.

DeathwindRising ROGUE SPADES 197	Posted - 2014.01.14 01:40:00 - [361] - Quote goerf wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Dear CCP and the Community of Dust 514, I would like it to be made publicly and clearly known that the CPM does not support the ability to fire a weapon while cloaked. If you support this (and even if you don't) I encourage you to post your thoughts so that CCP can hear our voices and change the course away from what would be a game-breaking mechanic. The devil is always in the details, but I think we can all agree that firing while cloaking is a line in the sand that CCP must not cross. /signed Kain Spero of CPM 0 Agreed To use a weapon you must de-cloak it seems logical You get unseen movement - how big an advantage does a scout need? then scouts need a reduced delay, or no delay to recloaking
Kushmir Nadian Valor Coalition 344	Posted - 2014.01.14 02:10:00 - [362] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: [quote=Brokerib] Neither you, nor anyone else calling for a nerf, has been able to provide solid reasoning for why firing from cloak is so bad that it should be considered broken, or breaks the game. Until you provide actual reasoning for it, its not a fact, it's your opinion. . I'll jump in here and try to break this down, then. The CPM is unanimous that cloaks as currently described are poor for balance and the overall health of the game. What constitutes fair balance, though? Should everything have the exact same stats and be able to kill everything equally? Not at all. In this instance... "Fair" in an FPS game constitutes a player having the ability of being aware how they died, and being able to learn and adapt so as not to die the same way again. Knowing who killed them and how is an important tool, as well is knowing how they could've avoided it. In the case of someone sneaking up behind someone, they are taking advantage of their own situational awareness while using the lack thereof in their victim. The victim can then take from that death "Maybe I should've been looking around more as I ran along the map" In this sense, melee and 'stealth' builds are completely fair, as a friendly teammate spotting or just better situational awareness can prevent all but the sneakiest of sneakers. In regards to the hot button point of firing while cloaked : There is nothing wrong with being able to fire on an unaware enemy. To say otherwise might as well be saying everyone should be on their enemies' maps all the time because "stealth is OP" (lol) However, (IMO) fairness dictates that anyone about to take an offensive position should also be vulnerable to counterattack at that same time. The cloak somewhat (though not completely) invalidates this point, as it provides a measure of safety both before (and after, if activated after firing rather than before) that prevents this opportunity except in the rarest of cases. It is the CPM's position that cloaks should be a tool used to escape, evade, and outmaneuver an enemy force, rather than a tool to be used actively in combat. We feel that this style of cloaking would maintain or even improve the pace of the game, and go a long way towards eliminating redline situations. Building on that last point, brings me to the second point of dispute among the CPM (Not unanimously agreed) The shimmer effect should only be present or "super visible" when one is sprinting. To do otherwise (Killzone 3 cloaking) only encourages campy, slow-paced playstyles as those are the only ways to use a cloak to maximum effect. This would result in cloaked players generally hovering around single objectives or spawn points, waiting for something to do instead of encouraging cloaked players to be highly mobile gameplay drivers who give OTHER players something to do. I will happily discuss any of these points with anyone who feels they have a reasonable argument against them. For added reference, I will paste the following from an internal CPM thread regarding my own views on the overal goals and "Should/ Should nots" of cloaks. [quote] Basic goal of cloaks should ultimately be to escape, evade, or maneuver into superior position. They should not be a direct tool to be used in active combat, but rather one of mobility. To achieve this, the cloaks should [list] Be an equipment that must be held in one's hands to remain active Have a very audible and recognizable sound when first engaged and when disengaged Have a minimum 20 second cooldown that begins upon deactivation (Increased duration if forcibly decloaked by enemy fire or otherwise taking damage) No maximum active duration Affect speed. Non-Scout suits should move at roughly a 25% decrease to speed. Create very small, yet visible distortion around the cloaked player (not a perfect 'human' outline). Only amplifies to become super visible when sprinting Be directly countered by scanners depending on range and precision. Assuming equal values, at short (30m or less) range the scanner should beat the cloak. At long ranges the cloak should beat the scan. Disable Melee, or carry a steep (minimum 90%) penalty to melee damage while carried. When used on an air vehicle, all weapons and other modules should be disabled and prevented from being activated for the duration of the cloak and for an additional (minimum 15s) timer afterwards. (Higher tiers of cloaks can reduce delay) When used on an air vehicle, flying below a certain altitude should immediately decloak the vehicle. Provide points to a cloaked player if they evade a scan, conversely provide points to a scanner if they reveal a cloaked player to their team. (Scanned players should not be decloaked, but highlighted visually with a much greater distortion than usual which would be visible to players on both teams) [quote] This is quite simply the most thorough explanation i've ever seen on a gaming message board--I feel smarter for having read it. Even moreso, because this is a topic many feel needs no explanation. You sir, are easily my favorite CPM. Hopefully you're running again as we need this kind of representation on our highest Dust body. BRAVO. Not a bitter vet, but i'll be back when we have 10 game modes, jets, all racial suits/wpns and EVE has a reason to care.
The Robot Devil molon labe. Public Disorder. 1549	Posted - 2014.01.14 02:14:00 - [363] - Quote MassiveNine wrote: So what about hacking while cloaked? I think it should be allowed. I mean if someone is at a letter and it starts getting hacked any decent player would know to huck a nade or start firing at the hack screen. Any action other than jumping should decloak you. GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride." Hunter S. Thompson
SILENTSAM 69 SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION 614	Posted - 2014.01.14 03:12:00 - [364] - Quote It is a lot of crying over nothing. Allow a kill or tow while cloaked. It sounds great that CCP will do this, and not make it the same boring old cloak that most shooters use. Considering all the balancing factors it sounds great to give the cloaked person an couple of actions before decloaking. I especially like the idea of throwing down a grenade while invisible near a group. Active scanners will find them, our cross hairs will still find them. and when they move they will be kinda visible. There is so much balancing the cloaking unit tat only the Scout will use it to the best of its ability, and they need something with how under powered they are. I would love to see a bunch of people start using this, and I would love to see the tactics people use against it. It also finally give a reason to use something beyond the basic scanner. That proto scanner will finally matter,
SILENTSAM 69 SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION 614	Posted - 2014.01.14 03:15:00 - [365] - Quote People are just having kneee jerk reactions, and not really considering everything from an objective stand point. Too many people are either thinking of how it will help them, or how it will hurt them. Well there is a lot more to think about than yourself. I can not wait to see how it affects entire battles. I love the idea of being able to use Scouts to infiltrate effectively. Without some idea of the numbers, we are just blowing a lot of smoke. We need to know how long the cloak will work for, and how much time is taken off for actions.
SILENTSAM 69 SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION 614	Posted - 2014.01.14 03:21:00 - [366] - Quote Also, correct me if I am wrong, but even if a scan does not pick up a cloaked Scout, you will still know the scan failed to find someone, and to be on the look out for your cross hair going red with no one seemingly there. You would also be on the look out for the shimmer, or whatever they use to show a moving cloaked character. There are ways to deal with it. If you fear a cloaked player around a corner, make wide corners. Throw random grenades into a room you do not trust. One thing I am not clear on, does shooting a cloaked player make them suddenly visible? If so, random spraying would be a great way to 'look around' for cloaked players. The cloak sounds good, and everyone who is over concerned needs to calm down. This include the CPM members against it. Well, mainly them.
SILENTSAM 69 SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION 614	Posted - 2014.01.14 04:24:00 - [367] - Quote Reading the more logical concerns, mainly from Nova Knife, I like how he wants someone to be able to be vulnerable to counter attack while being offensive. Besides the fact that I do not find the cloak itself that invisible, shimmers are always quite noticeable, and cross hairs going red helps a lot, I would say that I do like the idea of being vulnerable. Maybe something could be done to balance things. Maybe a persons shields have to be down while cloaked, and the moment their cloak comes off their shields start charging. Meaning firing on an invisible target will be much easier to kill, and the moment the person first comes out and starts firing, they would be at a disadvantage. This might encourage decloaking while hidden.
DISGRUNTLEDev Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 288	Posted - 2014.01.14 05:52:00 - [368] - Quote What is the purpose of the decloak sound? It's seems like this would defeat the reason to sneak behind someone. Especially if I have to make an awkward loud noise behind a heavy, hang out for a couple seconds, and the proceed to hit him 2 or 3 times with charged nova knives... With ~300 health... Yeah...
mollerz Minja Scouts 1848	Posted - 2014.01.14 06:45:00 - [369] - Quote As a proto scout since chromosome. This thread is a joke. It's a self serving BS move by people who are highly skilled into other frames. This thread is nothing more than an abuse of the CPM designation to represent the game before their own interests to progress and better the game we all sandbox in. CPM is corrupt. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 803	Posted - 2014.01.14 06:55:00 - [370] - Quote Garbage thread. If all we are trying to do is to keep scouts gimp and keep medium + auto rifle 514 going strong then yes, by all means. Oh, sht! I just learned you can make a signature! Thanks, CCP! Forums are getting better!

Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 1032	Posted - 2014.01.14 07:01:00 - [371] - Quote I kind of get that feeling too... this might be a case of CPM being scared of a mechanic before even being able to test it. I think you need to consider the changed (increased) infantry TTK, which hopefully comes in 1.8, together with the cloak before even discussing if its OP or UP. The current TTK is the main issue from many viewpoints of the game TBH, not cloaking modules (since we know little about them really). Doesnt matter in Dust 514: PC. FW Standing. Tanking Type. Other mods than DMG or HP. Does matter in Dust 514: Rifles.
Oswald Rehnquist 1091	Posted - 2014.01.14 07:07:00 - [372] - Quote Considering the recent posts by CCP Remnant which was an inquiry on a potential new cal bonus (which was a reduction to firing cost while cloaked), I believe this might be indicative that they are looking to make not shooting from cloak a feature. Below 28 dB
Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6425	Posted - 2014.01.14 07:10:00 - [373] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: I'm starting to have another round of second thoughts on the cloak. Now I'm not sure how it should be implemented in regards to how cloak should be held. Man, I'm becoming more of a flip flop than Sen. John Kerry. Danger! Danger! Flip-Flop level "John Kerry" now passed! Aporaching "Mitt Romney" levels! Danger! Danger! I'm scared. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 805	Posted - 2014.01.14 07:26:00 - [374] - Quote Is it just me or CPM never communicates with other players except to push some of their own rotten agenda? When was the time they last posted some normal communication as opposed to trolling? It's even funnier seeing how this thread comes from CPM that don't even play the game anymore. Vote for Pedro! Oh, sht! I just learned you can make a signature! Thanks, CCP! Forums are getting better!
Shion Typhon Intara Direct Action Caldari State 361	Posted - 2014.01.14 08:01:00 - [375] - Quote Brokerib wrote: Thanks you Nova and IWS for the posts, they are both informative and explain the CPMs position. That said, I don't 100% agree with you, but that's to be expected as I have a vested interest in protecting the scout. Instead of theorising why not actually try out a cloak in practice? I guarantee you will have a much better understanding of combat under cloak once you have done so. The Planetside 2 cloak is almost identical to what the CPM are proposing and it is neither weak nor unfun, au contraire, playing a CQC PS2 Infiltrator is immense fun and highly effective. It can be used for defense and offense and is one of the more balanced cloaks in FPSs. The decloaking delay, the noise, the recharge, everything is there and they give your opponent a fighting chance while still allowing you to get up to endless shenanigans and hilarious terror tactics. Go download it, put some skill points into cloak and go mental on an Infiltrator for a few hours. Then you'll understand that nothing the CPM is proposing is inappropriate.
ChromeBreaker SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1501	Posted - 2014.01.14 08:11:00 - [376] - Quote Get the damn cloak in game! i dont know what will be OP or not! balance it as best you can but be very prepared for changes The answer is "ForgeGun"... doesnt matter what the question is...
DeeJay One Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 191	Posted - 2014.01.14 08:22:00 - [377] - Quote ChromeBreaker wrote: Get the damn cloak in game! i dont know what will be OP or not! balance it as best you can but be very prepared for changes That's exactly what this thread is trying to accomplish.
Kasira Vorrikesh Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 50	Posted - 2014.01.14 08:45:00 - [378] - Quote I've said this once before, and I'm sure none of it'll be implemented, but this is the only kind of cloaking I want to see: Passive cloaking fully integrated into scout suits only. Cloaking device takes no slots or CPU/PG (those stats stay the same on cloak-scout suits, finally giving a good reason for being so low). Cloaking is always-on. Deactivates when user fires or is hit by enemy fire; reactivation delay is dictated by (skill X). Full movement speed is possible with scout-cloak; shimmer level dictated by speed (for scouts, running produces very little shimmer; only sprinting would make you really noticeable, but still not fully visible). Slow walking/ very slow movement keeps you totally invisible, as does being stationary. Being cloaked and stationary makes scouts completely immune to all scanning; any movement will re-apply the usual profile rules (scout-cloak offers no bonuses to profile reduction besides the stationary one). Flux grenades disable cloaking for a long time (30 secs maybe). Everyone else can fit a cloak as a piece of equipment that must be manually activated, has longer fade times than scout-cloak, and is completely deactivated by running/sprinting and firing/being hit. It shimmers during walking/creeping, and is only totally invisible while stationary. Non-scout cloak offers small reduction to profile for stationary users. As an aside to all this: the idea of a scout having to equip/manually "fire" a cloak seems horribly annoying to me. Stealth should be fluid, second-nature, to the scout.
dzizur Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 24	Posted - 2014.01.14 10:04:00 - [379] - Quote @CPM, the old saying that everyone loves so much - HTFU so now that ccp figured out how to move snipers from the redline onto the battlefield you guys want to nerf that possibility into the ground? (not to mention it's not out yet) great job! i don't have anything against logis running with stealth, they're stealth skills suck anyways so whats the problem? they'll be teared to shreds by scouts. now that i've seen all the qq about cloaks and pretty much everything scout I understand why ccp is always so late with the info. hell even some of the scouts are bitching now about getting the second eq slot for a sidearm. don't get me wrong, i get it that some people got used to their "double [insert here]" fits, but c'mon. I though that the scouts are a frame best at adapting, now it seems that it's best at bitching and being lazy. and remember kids, if you want dual smg, just use your damn black eagle suit.
Nova Knife Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 2253	Posted - 2014.01.14 11:05:00 - [380] - Quote mollerz wrote: As a proto scout since chromosome. This thread is a joke. It's a self serving BS move by people who are highly skilled into other frames. This thread is nothing more than an abuse of the CPM designation to represent the game before their own interests to progress and better the game we all sandbox in. CPM is corrupt. As a proto scout since the true Uprising 1.0 (The first one, that ran from Dec 2011 until may 2012).... Your post is uninformed. I would love nothing more than to be a badass stealthy assassin with my knives wielding a cloak to terrorize my victims. I just recognize that what suits myself and my own desires are not always what equal a fun and fair experience for everyone or healthy for the game as a whole. While the scouts should be the most adept at using cloaks... I think it's really crappy to shoehorn them into a role that relies on an OP mechanic in order to make them useful again. Scouts need more than that to be fun. Cloaks as proposed by CCP are -not- the answer to the ever-present question of "How do we make scout suits not suck?" This is a battle that needs to be fought elsewhere, with other solutions. (IMO)

Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 251	Posted - 2014.01.14 11:16:00 - [381] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: mollerz wrote: As a proto scout since chromosome. This thread is a joke. It's a self serving BS move by people who are highly skilled into other frames. This thread is nothing more than an abuse of the CPM designation to represent the game before their own interests to progress and better the game we all sandbox in. CPM is corrupt. As a proto scout since the true Uprising 1.0 (The first one, that ran from Dec 2011 until may 2012).... Your post is uninformed. I would love nothing more than to be a badass stealthy assassin with my knives wielding a cloak to terrorize my victims. I just recognize that what suits myself and my own desires are not always what equal a fun and fair experience for everyone or healthy for the game as a whole. While the scouts should be the most adept at using cloaks... I think it's really crappy to shoehorn them into a role that relies on an OP mechanic in order to make them useful again. Scouts need more than that to be fun. Cloaks as proposed by CCP are -not- the answer to the ever-present question of "How do we make scout suits not suck?" This is a battle that needs to be fought elsewhere, with other solutions. (IMO) Then mobilise the CPM to advocate for the improvement of scouts, not just the destruction of cloaks. If you continue to advocate for the destruction of cloaks without working to change how they are implemented for scouts, it will destroy the viability of the class. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=135730&find=unread
The Robot Devil molon labe. Public Disorder. 1550	Posted - 2014.01.14 11:20:00 - [382] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Whether or not the cloak has to be held the whole time it's active I don't know. As long as you can't shoot at the same time you are cloaked is my main sticking point. I think it should be turned on and should stay on until the player or something else decloaks you. GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride." Hunter S. Thompson
Faquira Bleuetta 0uter.Heaven 159	Posted - 2014.01.14 12:26:00 - [383] - Quote If there's something strange in your neighborhood Who you gonna QQ nerf? CCP! If there's something weird and it don't look good Who you gonna QQ nerf? CCP! I ain't afraid of no ghost I ain't afraid of no ghost If you're seeing things running through your head Who you gonna QQ nerf? CCP! An invisible man sleeping in your bed holy sheit, Who you gonna QQ nerf? CCP! I ain't afraid of no ghost I ain't afraid of no ghost Who you gonna QQ nerf? CCP! If you're all alone, go to forum And QQ nerf thread CCP! I ain't afraid of no ghost I hear it likes the girls I ain't afraid of no ghost Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Who you gonna QQ nerf? CCP! If you've had a dose of a freaky ghost You'd better QQ nerf CCP! Let me tell you something Bustin' makes me feel good I ain't afraid of no ghost I ain't afraid of no ghost Don't get caught alone, oh no CCP! When it comes through your door Unless you just want some more I think you better QQ nerf CCP! Ow! Who you gonna QQ nerf CCP!!
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2624	Posted - 2014.01.14 14:04:00 - [384] - Quote Brokerib wrote: Nova Knife wrote: mollerz wrote: As a proto scout since chromosome. This thread is a joke. It's a self serving BS move by people who are highly skilled into other frames. This thread is nothing more than an abuse of the CPM designation to represent the game before their own interests to progress and better the game we all sandbox in. CPM is corrupt. As a proto scout since the true Uprising 1.0 (The first one, that ran from Dec 2011 until may 2012).... Your post is uninformed. I would love nothing more than to be a badass stealthy assassin with my knives wielding a cloak to terrorize my victims. I just recognize that what suits myself and my own desires are not always what equal a fun and fair experience for everyone or healthy for the game as a whole. While the scouts should be the most adept at using cloaks... I think it's really crappy to shoehorn them into a role that relies on an OP mechanic in order to make them useful again. Scouts need more than that to be fun. Cloaks as proposed by CCP are -not- the answer to the ever-present question of "How do we make scout suits not suck?" This is a battle that needs to be fought elsewhere, with other solutions. (IMO) Then mobilise the CPM to advocate for the improvement of scouts, not just the destruction of cloaks. If you continue to advocate for the destruction of cloaks without working to change how they are implemented for scouts, it will destroy the viability of the class. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=135730&find=unread If you think the CPM hasn't been advocating for improvements to the scout you are obviously misinformed. Again I think the scouts need bonuses that aren't tied to cloaks (or they have cloak and additional bonuses). The scout needs to be a good frame in its own right and not just because of a cloak. I know the other CPM have specific points about cloaks, but my only thing is a player not being able to shoot while cloaked. Plus, I agree that if you decloak before firing then going from cloaked to an action should be fluid. Again if you think that this is somehow an attack on scouts you need to look beyond your own role and also realize that if bad mechanics lay at the feet of the cloak it's going to be an issue with all of the suits not just the scout. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 640	Posted - 2014.01.14 14:56:00 - [385] - Quote Kain, as I advised IWS a unified approach would have been better with the CPM or at least three to four of you putting out a single thread with the main points you would like to see regarding the cloak plus also what the forum expected. Credit to you, yours was just a single point to balance a mechanic but then we had IWS with his full on cloak cant do anything and CCP stating that Scouts would have to lose to gain. It all got hectic. If CPM is to be the go between then they should act like it and CCP needs to do a way better job then just tagging threads and sprinkling info. They should author at least two threads - cloak and its mechanics, - scouts and state what they want to do and then have Sabrewing of someone else monitor them and buzz the other devs for clarification or when their is consensus on a point. In your blind spot No Quid Pro Quo Line in the Sand
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 126	Posted - 2014.01.14 18:57:00 - [386] - Quote i dont see how harder to see light weight suits could ever be a problem, you only have to cast an evil look to kill them and when they kill you how often do you see them anyway? the only problem will be if logis, assaults and commandos can use the cloak better
DeeJay One Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 191	Posted - 2014.01.14 19:25:00 - [387] - Quote Monty Mole Clone wrote: the only problem will be if logis, assaults and commandos can use the cloak better Judging from the proposed suit bonuses that could be the case (at least that's how I see it).
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 126	Posted - 2014.01.14 19:48:00 - [388] - Quote DeeJay One wrote: Monty Mole Clone wrote: the only problem will be if logis, assaults and commandos can use the cloak better Judging from the proposed suit bonuses that could be the case (at least that's how I see it). just had a quick look at an all std assault ak.0 with specialist scram rifle, if i can get a cloak on this i will be dissapointed 3x basic shield extenders 3x basic plate viz spec scram rifle breach scram pistol nade possible cloak ? 298 shields 505 armour 253 cpu left 64 pg left
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 811	Posted - 2014.01.14 23:01:00 - [389] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: mollerz wrote: As a proto scout since chromosome. This thread is a joke. It's a self serving BS move by people who are highly skilled into other frames. This thread is nothing more than an abuse of the CPM designation to represent the game before their own interests to progress and better the game we all sandbox in. CPM is corrupt. As a proto scout since the true Uprising 1.0 (The first one, that ran from Dec 2011 until may 2012).... Your post is uninformed. I would love nothing more than to be a badass stealthy assassin with my knives wielding a cloak to terrorize my victims. I just recognize that what suits myself and my own desires are not always what equal a fun and fair experience for everyone or healthy for the game as a whole. While the scouts should be the most adept at using cloaks... I think it's really crappy to shoehorn them into a role that relies on an OP mechanic in order to make them useful again. Scouts need more than that to be fun. Cloaks as proposed by CCP are -not- the answer to the ever-present question of "How do we make scout suits not suck?" This is a battle that needs to be fought elsewhere, with other solutions. (IMO) Your job is to communicate with the community and elicit feedback not to collect signatures to support your own requests. CPM abuses its power. None of you will or could ever be elected democratically. Oh, sht! I just learned you can make a signature! Thanks, CCP! Forums are getting better!
DeeJay One Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 191	Posted - 2014.01.15 07:41:00 - [390] - Quote Brokerib wrote: We also know that firing from cloak will result in you de-cloaking. We know that firing a sniper rifle will decloak you instantly, the rest is in the air...

DeeJay One Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 191	Posted - 2014.01.15 07:49:00 - [391] - Quote Ludvig Enraga wrote: Your job is to communicate with the community and elicit feedback not to collect signatures to support your own requests. CPM abuses its power. None of you will or could ever be elected democratically. So, CPM has just to sit and wait for you and not propose any changes? This thread is about CPM having an idea and wishing for your feedback on it. If we elect a council that will do nothing just forwarding threads (as you propose above) I fear for the state of the game...
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2634	Posted - 2014.01.15 08:35:00 - [392] - Quote The CPM meeting with CCP Remant and CCP Wolfman went well I think and the community thoughts here were actually quite helpful, so thank you to all who posted. You can read up on some of what was discussed here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1721939#post1721939 Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news


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