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CPM: Petition to CCP Regarding Cloaks

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xSynnx x Requiem of Shadows 43	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:55:00 - [61] - Quote With the talk of shimmer ive been seeing, if they treat this like the killzone cloak i fully support it.
GET ATMESON Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 212	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:56:00 - [62] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: mollerz wrote: No matter what- we should be able to hold a weapon/equipment while cloaked. Holding what is tantamount to a cloaking lantern with both hands whilst traipsing through a battlefield is lame, and no advanced technological combat cloak wouldn't let you be hands free so you could hold a weapon, climb a ladder, etc. And wait a second... Does Kain even play scout? If not.. sorry man. This is just QQ wrapped up in a med frame blanket petition. Downvote to this CPM in an election, scouts. Actually, I agree that scouts have been in a bad place. The CPM has discussed with CCP as well that the scout should be a viable role even when a cloak isn't used. Sure scouts can use a cloak better if you look at the bonuses on SiSi, but they need to be effective in their own right as well. I have not put the hours into a scout that the experts have, but from my experience the scout is one of the most challenging and at the same time exhilarating roles in the game. I don't think the improvements to scouts should stop with a cloak. I really feel they should be the information specialists on the field as well. I just want it to be clear that shooting while cloaked shouldn't be a thing and if based on that premise further adjustments need to be made to the scout role them I'm all for it. Forcing scouts to use a cloak to be viable on the battlefield to me is just as bad as if the cloak landed in the form of an I-win button. If the CPM have been "discussing" scouts why hasnt there been any post up by you guys saying "we talked about scouts today" "We might get these changes" Can you show the community any of this? I would like to see 1 post you made in General Discussions. Link please. 1.7 HMG hotfix works great. Now for more Heavy suits or guns soonGäó
Minmatar Citizen 3173120 Xpert Intervention 63	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:59:00 - [63] - Quote Cloaking in dust, LMAO. Like this game is'nt empty enough. Now everyone will be ghosts. Thale sniper, pop, invisible, pop, invisible. New low for dust.
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2484	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:01:00 - [64] - Quote GET ATMESON wrote: If the CPM have been "discussing" scouts why hasnt there been any post up by you guys saying "we talked about scouts today" "We might get these changes" Can you show the community any of this? I would like to see 1 post you made in General discussions. Link please. Unfortunately, we've actually been asked in many cases when we have meetings to consider even the fact that we have had a meeting NDA. This lack of transparency has probably been one of the more frustrating aspects of being on the CPM. I will also say the channels of communication with the Devs that are responsible for moment to moment gameplay have been spotty at best. For this reason I really wold like to applaud CCP Remant for publicly posting how the cloaks currently work so we can all discuss this. The forums are not our only avenue of communication or discussion. The CPM can be reached via, skype, email, and in-game almost 24/7. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Spectre-M The Generals General Tso's Alliance 203	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:03:00 - [65] - Quote +1. Invisible caldari snipers will be game breaking. Cloaks should not be tied to combat, they should be tied to mobility and positioning. Get behind enemy lines to drop uplinks and push while reinforcement spawns in from behind. Tactical cloaks, not combat cloaks. Amarr Factional Warfare Loyalist Minnmatar in Amarr Armor I am a Wolf in Sheeps Clothing
calvin b Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 1363	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:03:00 - [66] - Quote If this does happen no one will see anyone for we all will be cloaked and then it will be a game of the blind playing hide and seek. TANK514 another sign of cancer in the game
IgniteableAura Pro Hic Immortalis 476	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:04:00 - [67] - Quote -1 to CPM I really dont think it will be all that effective. The shimmer will be totally obvious unless on a scout that has the shimmer bonus. People are making mountains out of mole hills. The big benefit will be lack of chevron, tacnet and no health bars. It will be a hit and run tactic. Shoot someone while not cloaked, run around a corner, cloak and wait for them to run by you...then ambush. Cloak is a gimmick to make scouts more attractive, but hardly OP I bet activation on cloak is less than 20 seconds. Thats less time then you would be lit up by an active scanner. Snipers will be even less effective if they use cloak as they would be forced to wait the reactivation time...likely pretty substantial. Also snipers are already all but impossible to kill with their 1000hp on top of triage hives headglitched behind some terrain. I would love to see a sniper gimp their suit to fit a cloak. PHI Recruitment or PHIsh Tank in game Twitch
Rogue Saint Science For Death 668	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:08:00 - [68] - Quote NAV HIV wrote: Agreed. They can try to go behind enemy lines and such with Uplinks and try to hack and objective. But consider this: Proto Scout Charging a Viziam SCR and waiting for that Headshot... Some gun game that'd be Isn't the cloak meant to be equipment? If so then there won't be any scouts dropping uplinks behind enemy lines or even RE's etc. We are still unsure of what the "new" scout suits will be. I'll await judgement until we get better details on scout changes, cloak information (unless CPM is breaking NDA here) and anything else that may come along regarding scouts. We don't even know when these changes are coming.... 1.8? 1.9? or Major release? GôêGÆ+GÆ+GÆ¦ - Bringing the dakka
Vespasian Andendare Subsonic Synthesis RISE of LEGION 554	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:09:00 - [69] - Quote I don't know if I can sign on to this petition. Certainly, not new before we know anything about cooldowns, signature blooms, cost of firing, etc. However, looking forward, if it was balanced around a few shots, then it likely wouldn't be that bad. I mean, consider that a cloak is what the scout has to survive. If scout suits are balanced around not being hit as their survival, then they're so paper thin that it won't matter. Bonus points for them showing up on active scanners but not visually. >> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! <<
Rogue Saint Science For Death 668	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:09:00 - [70] - Quote NAV HIV wrote: Agreed. They can try to go behind enemy lines and such with Uplinks and try to hack and objective. But consider this: Proto Scout Charging a Viziam SCR and waiting for that Headshot... Some gun game that'd be Isn't the cloak meant to be equipment? If so then there won't be any scouts dropping uplinks behind enemy lines or even RE's etc. We are still unsure of what the "new" scout suits will be. I'll await judgement until we get better details on scout changes, cloak information (unless CPM is breaking NDA here) and anything else that may come along regarding scouts. We don't even know when these changes are coming.... 1.8? 1.9? or Major release? GôêGÆ+GÆ+GÆ¦ - Bringing the dakka

Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2489	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:11:00 - [71] - Quote Spectre-M wrote: +1. Invisible caldari snipers will be game breaking. Cloaks should not be tied to combat, they should be tied to mobility and positioning. Get behind enemy lines to drop uplinks and push while reinforcement spawns in from behind. Tactical cloaks, not combat cloaks. Totally agree. I think more discussion can be done once cloaks actually land, but the first iteration needs to be no firing allowed. I've played numerous games where cloaking was a critical part of the game. I sunk tons of hours into Aliens versus Predator (1999), AvP2, and Aliens vs Predator on the console. Cloaking had to be thoughtfully implemented and the weapons that could be fired while cloaked had specific balance elements related to cloaking (the visible red laser projected while the plasma castor was charged etc.). Allowing all weapons to whole sale have a first shot while cloaked would be horrible and ruin the fps experience of Dust 514. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 259	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:12:00 - [72] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: There is no kneejerk here. It's just that with how the cloaks function being publicly posted we can talk about this openly with you all since it was previous in NDA hell. The CPM has been adamant that you should not be able to fire while cloaked from the very first time the issue of cloaks was brought up. I agree that R F Gyro's position nails it on the head. Implement with firing disallowed. We can then see the gameplay impact and thoughtfully discuss future baby steps of iteration. +1 Sir. I definitely applaud the transparency you are intending to provide.
GET ATMESON Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 212	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:18:00 - [73] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: GET ATMESON wrote: If the CPM have been "discussing" scouts why hasnt there been any post up by you guys saying "we talked about scouts today" "We might get these changes" Can you show the community any of this? I would like to see 1 post you made in General discussions. Link please. Unfortunately, we've actually been asked in many cases when we have meetings to consider even the fact that we have had a meeting NDA. This lack of transparency has probably been one of the more frustrating aspects of being on the CPM. I will also say the channels of communication with the Devs that are responsible for moment to moment gameplay have been spotty at best. For this reason I really wold like to applaud CCP Remant for publicly posting how the cloaks currently work so we can all discuss this. The forums are not our only avenue of communication or discussion. The CPM can be reached via, skype, email, and in-game almost 24/7. Working with one member at a time isnt helping the community. Thats helping a person. People do that all the time with skype. I dont want to skype with you guys. Talk is cheap. Actions are louder then words. If there was more CPM posts like this forum post " CPM: Pettion to ____" would have been way better. Anyone can say " Yea i talked with a CPM today on skype" and really didnt. People have tried to mail some of your CPM members on alts of alts and never had any words back. I side tracked off this topic but I got the answer I was thinking I was thinking I would get. The clocking shouldnt be on any suit but scout. If its on another suit it should cost 85%- 95% CPU plus a gun bug to make it so you cant shoot right off the get go. 1.7 HMG hotfix works great. Now for more Heavy suits or guns soonGäó
Hawkings Greenback Red Star. EoN. 87	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:18:00 - [74] - Quote Firing any weapon or using equipment should cause the cloak to deactivate. Also I would like to see a cloak destabilise if something gets close. Basically the same kind of principle as EVE. Logi For Life-Mini Logi suit wearer & proud Forum Lurker-level unknown Do clones dream of Dolly the sheep
Llast 326 An Arkhos 1180	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:19:00 - [75] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Dear CCP and the Community of Dust 514, I would like it the made publicly and clearly known that the CPM does not support the ability to fire a weapon while cloaked. If you support this (and even if you don't) I encourage you to post your thoughts so that CCP can hear our voices and change the course away from what would be a game-breaking mechanic. The devil is always in the details, but I think we can all agree that firing while cloaking is a line in the sand that CCP must not cross. /signed Kain Spero of CPM 0 Well, as the rest of us are probably more in the dark than the CPM, I could just run under the assumption that you know something about this implementation that us huddled masses have no comprehension about and support this. Or I could continue to question what other factors are at play with this cloak for balancing purposes. Does the CPM have more info than the rest of the community? Do they know how long the cloaks active time is? Do they know how quickly it depletes on firing with different weapons? Do they know the CPU/PG balance that the cloak will require in order to assess the value of fittings possible? Do they have reason to cause panic and feed speculation about an "OP" feature or is it speculation that has caused the CPM to speculate and panic. NDA probably limits what can actually be said about this, and that is understandable. So until the DEV blog comes out, or the DEVs give us more info, I think it may be too soon to say it is a game-braking mechanic. Clearly you believe it will be game-breaking as you have used such concrete language in your post, do you actually have more information that supports your claim, or is your post based on bias? KRRROOOOOOM
IgniteableAura Pro Hic Immortalis 476	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:20:00 - [76] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Actually, I agree that scouts have been in a bad place. The CPM has discussed with CCP as well that the scout should be a viable role even when a cloak isn't used. Sure scouts can use a cloak better if you look at the bonuses on SiSi, but they need to be effective in their own right as well. I have not put the hours into a scout that the experts have, but from my experience the scout is one of the most challenging and at the same time exhilarating roles in the game. I don't think the improvements to scouts should stop with a cloak. I really feel they should be the information specialists on the field as well. I just want it to be clear that shooting while cloaked shouldn't be a thing and if based on that premise further adjustments need to be made to the scout role them I'm all for it. Forcing scouts to use a cloak to be viable on the battlefield to me is just as bad as if the cloak landed in the form of an I-win button. Why no petition that scout ROLE BONUS IS TO CLOAKING THEN. That means we are required to run a cloak. If we dont our main role bonus is unused There are soooo many other issues that make cloaks worrisome than being able to shoot while cloaked. Like the fact that the cloak is considered equipment and all logis have 25% fitting bonus to equipment and have double the CPU/PG of a scout. Being able to not shoot while cloak invalidates the purpose behind it. Cloak is there to give scouts the assassination role, to remain unseen. Requiring scouts to "hold it" or deactivate prior to shooting gimps us more than we are currently. No expert scout would ever even use a cloak. Especially since it "shimmers" more greatly with increased movement speed.....oh wait, aren't scouts the fastest frame in Dust. Scouts continue to get nerfed...even the gal role bonus is getting nerfed...YAY. PHI Recruitment or PHIsh Tank in game Twitch
Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 2715	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:21:00 - [77] - Quote Right now, given the current facts on the cloak (as given by CCP Remnant) I'm fine with it. After I see how it plays in the game, I may change my mind. I'm fine with it if you can shoot when it's on, BUT ONLY IF THE CLOAK TURNS OFF AFTER THE FIRST SHOT or very shortly thereafter. On aside note, my commando will truly kick some butt Proud member of the Commando 6 <3 Commando AK.0
Ryder Azorria Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 802	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:23:00 - [78] - Quote Very much not signed. TBH the ability to fire a single shot or two while cloaked really doesn't offer much advantage, especially since moving makes you visible and having to manually decloak in order to fire just sounds like a giant PITA for anyone who successfully gets the drop on their enemy and wants to quickly engage - it would be especially bad for anyone who might use it with nova knives. Honestly, despite what you say, there are too many unknowns to make an informed decision - how long the cloak normally lasts, how visible you are while moving, exactly how long it takes to become partially and completely visible after opening fire, and how long the cool-down is will all play an important role in how 'OP' shooting while cloaked is or isn't. There's also the (IMO, much more important) issue of if / how the cloak affects your sig and how easy it is to scan you. Tl;dr - As it stands, with the general impression I'm getting from Remnant, I fully support the proposed shooting while cloaked mechanic, but until we see it in action, in the full context of a battle, you can't really make an informed decision one way or the other.
Ace Starburst PiZzA DuDeS 54	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:33:00 - [79] - Quote Fire of Prometheus wrote: Right now, given the current facts on the cloak (as given by CCP Remnant) I'm fine with it. After I see how it plays in the game, I may change my mind. I'm fine with it if you can shoot when it's on, BUT ONLY IF THE CLOAK TURNS OFF AFTER THE FIRST SHOT or very shortly thereafter. On aside note, my commando will truly kick some butt Basically this. I'm interested to see how they implement it and look forward to the challenge of spinning around and killing tiny predators after the first shot.
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 262	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:35:00 - [80] - Quote CPM i hope you will read this post. This is from someone that KNOW what is a cloaking in video games. - Borderlands 2 - Killzone 3 -Fallout 3 and others.... Be able to make ANYTHING that can lead to the ennemy death while cloaked will make it totally OP. First ! cloak is a scout device. NOT an assassin device. Learn the diffrence and try to explain it to CCP please. Scout is meant to grab information about the ennemy and destroy or trap the ennemy intel. And get the objectives while Heavier units in combat suit cover them. So here's : 1 : People must not be able to have their weapon while cloaked they must hold the device in their hand to stay cloaked. 2 : To be able to shoot they must swap weapons (Will make a sound like a flux grenade) OR they can turn it off manually to be quiet. 3 : You can't use any equipements while cloaked and 2sec after the cloak is disabled. 4- After you disabled your cloak (for any reason) everyone can see you on their passive scanners for 1 sec in a radius of 5 meters (avoid shotgun/ Nova knives assassination). 5- Anybody that hurt you disable your cloak (Careful to explosives and lfux) 6- Nobody else than Light Dropsuit (Scouts) must be able to use cloak device. Because it will be a "must have" item and will simply RUIN the game and making it a "crysis" like. And it SUCKS. No assault / heavy / logi must be able to be cloaked it must be a scout exclusive. That was for the drawbacks it NEED to be implemented or it will be Cloak514 for everyone. Now the advantages than nobody talk about and could be implemented to be REALLY useful for the team : 1 : Be cloaked reduce your scanned profile (Db) per 2. You have 36Db ? Now it's 18 while cloaked. Even a focused scanner will have difficulties to scan a cloaked scout. 2 : Walking on ANY equipements in a radisu of 2 meters (hives/remote/uplinks) will destroy them WITHOUT disabled the cloak or any penality. Now you can cut all the ennemy intel without being spoted. And you can defuse all the remote trap on the objectives easily. You're FREAKING USEFUL. 3 : Being cloaked increase your hack speed about 25%, you can hack without disable the cloak. Capture objectives and installation are EASIER and you can escape cloaked before the ennemy has comes to you. Cloak => Run => Hack => Run away : Less than 30sec. 4 : Everybody in the radius of your passive scanner (16m) and which is detected normally now appears in the scanners of ALL YOUR TEAMATES for 5 sec. Rush into them to spot them all. (but carefully !) 5 : If you crouch even if the ennemy is aiming you while cloaked their aim will not tilt "red".

Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2494	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:43:00 - [81] - Quote Hawkings Greenback wrote: Firing any weapon or using equipment should cause the cloak to deactivate. Also I would like to see a cloak destabilise if something gets close. Basically the same kind of principle as EVE. The threshold really needs to be cloak deactivates and then you can fire. How quickly that process happens can be up for discussion, but for me the threshold needs to be that the cloak is dropped before any damage can happen. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Logi Bro Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN. 2592	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:47:00 - [82] - Quote This seems like a whole lot of paranoia over a mechanic that nobody is fully sure how it works. Assuming there is a significant shimmer effect, I see no problem with letting people fire their weapon cloaked, but assuming that the shimmer effect is basically nil, then it should be reworked so that no shots may be fired whilst cloaked. Simple as that. No, I am not CCP Logibro. Not actually a Logi Bro anymore, more like a Big Bro.
Driftward Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 566	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:53:00 - [83] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: pseudosnipre wrote: CPM would rather focus on ability to fire while cloaked and NOT on the ease with which the new logi bonus will facilitate fitting of cloaks? Bravo. Also, cloaking is NOT going to benefit the highly talented scouts that still play the suit...they're already invisible to the mouth-breathing, tacnet-dependent masses. How easy a cloak is to fit is one of the devils in the details of the stats of the cloak itself and what the suits bonuses actually end up at. Whether or not you can fire while cloaked is a high level aspect of the cloak field's design that needs to be nipped in the bud. That doesn't mean there aren't other issues (can you use equipment while cloaked, can other suits fit a cloak, etc) that don't need to be address. With the specific stats still an unknown, I think the firing while cloaked issues is something that can be openly discussed among the community and it can be an issues where we can make ourselves heard loud and clear without having to worry about the ambiguity that unfinalized suit bonuses and stats brings. Um what equipment? Because you know, scouts only have the one freaking slot. And we're being forced to take a cloak instead of anything else due to the nature of our bonus. And they're taking away any form of passive dampening for scouts (except one race). So in order to not show up on scans we have to stack dampeners on our already limited slots in addition to being HP poor to begin with and you don't want to be shot once before we de-cloak? HTFU. It takes minimum 2-3 shots to drop a proto suit, about 2 for an advanced and 3-5 for heavies. So we get, MAYBE, one kill. and then we exposed ourselves and die instantly. If it's not used strategically and very situationally it's only useful as a suicide tactic. But we do that already with cheap suits and remotes AND get more kills that way. I'd be more worried about how logis are going to benefit from this and trying to influence that. They can carry BOTH REs and cloaks. Have fun with that while the scouts are relegated to obscurity once again.
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2494	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:58:00 - [84] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: This seems like a whole lot of paranoia over a mechanic that nobody is fully sure how it works. Assuming there is a significant shimmer effect, I see no problem with letting people fire their weapon cloaked, but assuming that the shimmer effect is basically nil, then it should be reworked so that no shots may be fired whilst cloaked. Simple as that. The current extent of invisibility: CCP Remnant wrote: Standing still you will be nigh invisible, but when moving you will be noticeable to an extent. Going from "nigh invisible" to applying damage is why you should not be able to fire shots while cloaked. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Soraya Xel The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 1028	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:01:00 - [85] - Quote Driftward wrote: Um what equipment? Because you know, scouts only have the one freaking slot. And we're being forced to take a cloak instead of anything else due to the nature of our bonus. There are scout suits with other bonuses. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Driftward Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 568	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:04:00 - [86] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Logi Bro wrote: This seems like a whole lot of paranoia over a mechanic that nobody is fully sure how it works. Assuming there is a significant shimmer effect, I see no problem with letting people fire their weapon cloaked, but assuming that the shimmer effect is basically nil, then it should be reworked so that no shots may be fired whilst cloaked. Simple as that. The current extent of invisibility: CCP Remnant wrote: Standing still you will be nigh invisible, but when moving you will be noticeable to an extent. Going from "nigh invisible" to applying damage is why you should not be able to fire shots while cloaked. So how often do you sit still while shooting at people? How often have you tried to fire and aim a shotgun while remaining perfectly still (or nova knives for even greater hilarity)? Even better should we just transport ourselves to our enemies using a teleporter? Oh wait that mechanic isn't here yet. To get next to the person you want to shoot, you kind of have to move a bit ergo The Shimmer. Because you know to do any kind of significant damage (other than perhaps a sniper which isn't what you're QQing about here) you need to be up close and personal. So get yourself a Gal Logi to scan the crap out of the field (because even dampener stacked gal scout cant beat their scan power soon) and keep checking behind your 6; We're Coming For You. Soraya Xel wrote: Driftward wrote: Um what equipment? Because you know, scouts only have the one freaking slot. And we're being forced to take a cloak instead of anything else due to the nature of our bonus. There are scout suits with other bonuses. Ummm why don't you check the overall scout bonus and try again.....
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 3850	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:05:00 - [87] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Driftward wrote: Um what equipment? Because you know, scouts only have the one freaking slot. And we're being forced to take a cloak instead of anything else due to the nature of our bonus. There are scout suits with other bonuses. For equipment? No there is not. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 3 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 3854	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:12:00 - [88] - Quote Once again it looks like something that would help the scout to be viable is going to be shafted by those who don't use the suit regardless of how the actual scout community veiws of feels of the subject. Typical, but I'm done fighting against yall, you outnumber us and as such have a heavier impact in the matter I can't be bothered to try and defend something that most of the 'elites' of dust are against simply because we have little say in what happens anyway. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 3 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Gunner Nightingale Imperfects Negative-Feedback 759	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:13:00 - [89] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: Telcontar Dunedain wrote: This game is bad and hasn't improved in the six months since I stopped playing. You should all feel bad for still playing this game. lolaimbot514 You haven't played for six months ... well then how do you know it hasn't improved? And even more important: Why are you still here? Is it a game made by CCP? All the information one needs really. And we aren't really here just kain keeps spamming our good games only skype chat with this stuff and we take it as an opportunity to come in and point and laugh.
Driftward Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 570	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:18:00 - [90] - Quote Also just in case you think I'm all for the proposed changes, you should understand something. I'm not. I made a feedback thread listing in detail why I think that the changes to bonuses for scouts and the addition of cloaks is deterimental in general. Link. And if you really want to see some pissed off threads, check out the scout thread in general discussion (the one that is 327 PAGES at the time of typing this). Scout Registry As a scout community we see the cloak as a pittance in comparison to what we're losing. At BEST, as it currently stands, I'm of the opinion that the scout class is remaining about status quo if not slightly worse off.



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