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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
6344
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Posted - 2014.01.09 19:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
After giving it much thought, I now agree with you. Make the cloak so that it at least requires you to hold the cloak trigger in your hand in order to maintain cloak. If you swap around, you lose cloak.
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
6354
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Posted - 2014.01.10 00:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
Check out @Henry_Haphorn's Tweet: https://twitter.com/Henry_Haphorn/status/421427485524627456
Retweet when you have the chance so that CCP can see this.
CCP Remnant, take note.
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
6366
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Posted - 2014.01.10 15:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:NextDark Knight wrote:Just saying, I'd like to see what CCP put together before we change it. This is why we need to be able to link up to SISI server. Lets see what happens with this cloaked firing, the recharge on the cloak, it might not be as crazy as you think. If it's anything like Knova Knives then your fears are misplaced. Cloaked while firing is a bad mechanic, and doing a "let's see how it works out" with an obviously bad and broken mechanic would be irresponsible.
I have to agree with this.
Maken Tosch wrote: It's better to have the cloak pre-nerfed rather than have it overnerfed later on down the road. This way, the cloak won't feel OP but it won't feel useless either. This is my way of trying to protect an aspect of the game that I feel passionate about much like how I felt about the Nova Knives. You don't hear anyone crying "nerf the knives" because the knives came pre-nerfed and thus many people regarded them as a balanced weapon that just need a slight tweak such as allowing sprints while charging. If knives came with all the bells-n-whistles from the start, then it was likely that everyone would call out "nerf" and then the weapon will truly become useless with an overnerf later on down the road.
This is what I'm trying to accomplish with the cloak now. If it comes in pre-nerfed, very few people will ever complain about it and then it will be safe from the nerf bat. Kain Spero, Heinrich, me, and many others are trying to do you all a solid by going down the pre-nerf route. It's safer for the cloak so that it won't be completely useless due to unwarranted fear of the cloak.
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
6366
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Posted - 2014.01.10 15:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
IgniteableAura wrote:Kain Spero wrote:iceyburnz wrote:I agree. But I also hate clumsy controls.
NO TO SWITCHING.
Your cloaked. You pull your trigger, you decloak. Then you can fire. There should probably be a delay until you can fire. Yeah, so basically your saying you can switch to any equipment or weapon you want but you pull the trigger to deactivate the cloak? Sounds good. I would add if you have a weapon ADSing should also have the same effect as pulling the trigger to deactivate the cloak. Same as hitting the grenade button. Hit grenade button. Cloak Deactivates. HIt again and cook or throw nade as normal. Adding any sort of cooldown time would likely invalidate the cloak. If you are getting shot at while cloaked and try to return fire you will have to wait the cooldown to fire...which in a scout suit is already about 0.2secs TTK. With any sort of clumsy controls or cooldowns on cloak it will likely not even be utilized, scouts already know how to stay hidden and wait for their time to strike. Adding additional penalties to that situation is not going to improve scouts or make cloak useful to them. My assumptions on cloak is that they will likely be active for less than 20 seconds, if they could be indefinitely ON with no shimmer on scouts then I would not mind the proposed mechanics of cooldowns and not shooting while cloaked. But I highly doubt that's the case.
I would very much prefer something like having two kinds of cloaks.
Maken Tosch wrote: Standard Cloak (can fit on all suit classes and tiers) CPU: 250 PG: 60 Cooldown Upon Deactivation: 30 Seconds Cloak Stability Rating while Moving: 4 (moderate-high shimmer) Cloak Stability Rating while Sprinting: 2 (high shimmer) Bonuses when fitted on Scout: 80% reduction on CPU/PG usage and a +3 Cloak Stability Rating for moving and sprinting.
Covert Ops Cloak (can only be fitted on specialty Covert Ops Scout or Prototype Scout) CPU: 350 PG: 60 Cooldown: 15 seconds Cloak Stability Rating while Moving: 10 (no shimmer) Cloak Stability Rating while Sprinting: 8 (very low shimmer) Bonus when fitted on Prototype Scout: 80% reduction on CPU/PG usage Bonus when fitted on Covert Ops Specialty Scout: 80% reduction on CPU/PG usage with 25% reduction to cooldown timer
Skill Prerequisite for Standard Cloak: Cloaking Equipment Skill Book Level 1 ( 5% reduction to cooldown timer per level )
Skill Prerequisites for Covert Ops Cloak: Cloaking Equipment Skill Book Level 5 ( 5% reduction to cooldown timer per level ) Cloaking Equipment Proficiency Skill Book Level 1 ( 3% reduction to cooldown timer per level )
NOTE: Must first train up to [Racial] Scout Level 5 before being able to train towards the Covert Ops scout.
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
6366
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Posted - 2014.01.10 15:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
NextDark Knight wrote:Kain Spero wrote:NextDark Knight wrote:Just saying, I'd like to see what CCP put together before we change it. This is why we need to be able to link up to SISI server. Lets see what happens with this cloaked firing, the recharge on the cloak, it might not be as crazy as you think. If it's anything like Knova Knives then your fears are misplaced. Cloaked while firing is a bad mechanic, and doing a "let's see how it works out" with an obviously bad and broken mechanic would be irresponsible. Show me the gameplay on how it is bad. These guys are slow moving, gimped HP and damage scout suites from CCP description. CCP needs a big push for SISI connection, I don't care if it takes up another 8 gigs on my PS3.
Halo does have a bit of a flaw with the cloak. The cloak mechanic in Halo is pretty good for now, but still has one flaw. Two actually.
1. When used with a DMR, you only decloak slightly and thus not be noticed after every shot. And since this is a single-shot weapon, you're cloak fully recovers after every shot. The only clue you get as to where the shots are coming from is the bullet trails. In Dust 514, there are very few bullet trails. 2. Promethean Vision makes cloaking useless in Halo 4.
If you have the same mechanic in Dust 514, many people will ask for an overnerf just like how people QQed about the laser rifle and Mass Driver. It will get nerfed into the ground and won't recover until at least 2-3 updates later.
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
6366
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Posted - 2014.01.10 15:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cymek Omnius wrote:Kain Spero wrote:Dear CCP and the Community of Dust 514,
I would like it to be made publicly and clearly known that the CPM does not support the ability to fire a weapon while cloaked.
If you support this (and even if you don't) I encourage you to post your thoughts so that CCP can hear our voices and change the course away from what would be a game-breaking mechanic. The devil is always in the details, but I think we can all agree that firing while cloaking is a line in the sand that CCP must not cross.
/signed Kain Spero of CPM 0 I think you should be able to fire while cloaked. The mechanic works fine in Eve as you appear right after you attack.
You need to play Eve more often. In Eve Online, you can't attack at all while cloaked. You have to decloak first and only Covert Ops ships have the option of immediately attacking after decloaking. All other ships suffer a targeting delay.
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
6368
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Posted - 2014.01.10 15:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
Beck Weathers wrote:Off topic but what should the caldari scouts bonus be if we take this away?
Aso im all for having to hold it in your hands, then switching to a weapon deactivates it.
This is how I think it should be in regards to bonuses to each racial scout.
Amarr Scout: Bonus to Cooldown Timer Caldari Scout: Bonus to Active Timer Length Gallente Scout: Bonus to Shimmer Reduction Minmatar Scout: Bonus to Sprint Speed while cloaked
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
6380
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Posted - 2014.01.10 23:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Firing while cloaked didn't break Halo Reach or Halo 4. (some other things arguably do, but not that)
You simply had to introduce an additional counter-balance to it or two. Fast movement made you much more visible, and anytime you were nearby a cloaked opponent your radar went crazy and put you on alert. It was like being invisible while banging a bunch of pots and pans together. You could fire while cloaked, but it made you very visible for a short amount of time. It muted all but the highest pitched sounds while it was activated, so you were effectively deaf.
Movement also drained that cloaks energy reserve.
Yet with all of these disadvantages together, you were able to use any weapon you liked while cloaked. And it was indeed very balanced.
Which is why I said that cloak in halo is done mostly right. There are just so many counters to it in the game. Unfortunately I think it has too many counters. Particularly the promethean vision.
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD
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Maken Tosch
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
6414
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Posted - 2014.01.13 18:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:We're aware of the concerns, and it's still something in development.
OMG a Blue Tag!
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
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Maken Tosch
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
6414
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Posted - 2014.01.13 18:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
I'm starting to have another round of second thoughts on the cloak. Now I'm not sure how it should be implemented in regards to how cloak should be held. Man, I'm becoming more of a flip flop than Sen. John Kerry.
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD
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Maken Tosch
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
6425
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Posted - 2014.01.14 07:10:00 -
[11] - Quote
Baal Omniscient wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:I'm starting to have another round of second thoughts on the cloak. Now I'm not sure how it should be implemented in regards to how cloak should be held. Man, I'm becoming more of a flip flop than Sen. John Kerry. Danger! Danger! Flip-Flop level "John Kerry" now passed! Aporaching "Mitt Romney" levels! Danger! Danger!
I'm scared.
OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
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