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CPM: Petition to CCP Regarding Cloaks

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Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2583	Posted - 2014.01.11 11:01:00 - [241] - Quote DeeJay, No reason to have some crazy suicide button coded in. I do agree with those that are saying going from cloaked to able to fire needs to be smooth as long as we don't have cloaked firing. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
mr musturd 0uter.Heaven 249	Posted - 2014.01.11 11:22:00 - [242] - Quote how about we stop trying to nerf something that isnt even in the game yet? Let it be released and go from there and if it does happen to be OP then nerf it, honestly the communtiy can deal with scouts being OP for a effing month we've been so UP for long enough
DeeJay One Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 187	Posted - 2014.01.11 11:46:00 - [243] - Quote mr musturd wrote: how about we stop trying to nerf something that isnt even in the game yet? Let it be released and go from there and if it does happen to be OP then nerf it, honestly the communtiy can deal with scouts being OP for a effing month we've been so UP for long enough Well, nerfing OP things usually angers the community and we will spend the next 3 months after release in hate threads on the forums.
iceyburnz Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 1303	Posted - 2014.01.11 12:37:00 - [244] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: iceyburnz wrote: I agree. But I also hate clumsy controls. NO TO SWITCHING. Your cloaked. You pull your trigger, you decloak. Then you can fire. There should probably be a delay until you can fire. Yeah, so basically your saying you can switch to any equipment or weapon you want but you pull the trigger to deactivate the cloak? Sounds good. I would add if you have a weapon ADSing should also have the same effect as pulling the trigger to deactivate the cloak. Same as hitting the grenade button. Hit grenade button. Cloak Deactivates. HIt again and cook or throw nade as normal. Exactly. "We spent so much time huddling inside buildings with tanks circling outside like a swarm of sharks around bait"
Matticus Monk Ordus Trismegistus 969	Posted - 2014.01.11 12:45:00 - [245] - Quote About the only thing I agree with is that scouts need a slight buff and need to be viable without the use of the cloak. As for the rest, as much as I wish it wasn't coming to the game... we'll just have to figure it out when more details are presented. As Surt mentioned, there shouldn't be any issue with firing one shot while cloaked. Jeeze, what is the big deal....? We typically fire the first shot unseen now anyway. Whether it's by flanking, stalking, sniping.... The first time many people know a scout is around is when they drop to the ground and think "WTF just happened?"
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 8	Posted - 2014.01.11 12:51:00 - [246] - Quote Hey Mr. Kain Spero. Could you not get one of those polls linked in your thread so we can actually vote on a 'YES / NO / Not at first' type thing?
DeeJay One Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 188	Posted - 2014.01.11 13:39:00 - [247] - Quote Matticus Monk wrote: As Surt mentioned, there shouldn't be any issue with firing one shot while cloaked. Jeeze, what is the big deal....? We typically fire the first shot unseen now anyway. Whether it's by flanking, stalking, sniping.... Problem is the cloak will not be usable by scouts only, getting hit by a cloaked forge gunner won't be so fine and dandy...
Vulcanus Lightbringer Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 176	Posted - 2014.01.11 13:43:00 - [248] - Quote DeeJay One wrote: Matticus Monk wrote: As Surt mentioned, there shouldn't be any issue with firing one shot while cloaked. Jeeze, what is the big deal....? We typically fire the first shot unseen now anyway. Whether it's by flanking, stalking, sniping.... Problem is the cloak will not be usable by scouts only, getting hit by a cloaked forge gunner won't be so fine and dandy... Heavies can't use equipment though, so cloaked forge gunners won't be a problem either way...
Sgt Buttscratch 1285	Posted - 2014.01.11 14:14:00 - [249] - Quote Who is cpm? I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
DeeJay One Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 188	Posted - 2014.01.11 14:25:00 - [250] - Quote Sgt Buttscratch wrote: Who is cpm? Bad troll is terrible.

DeeJay One Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 188	Posted - 2014.01.11 14:26:00 - [251] - Quote Vulcanus Lightbringer wrote: Heavies can't use equipment though, so cloaked forge gunners won't be a problem either way... Oops. my bad. But getting and MD or a Plasma Cannon in the back is equally bad.
Gaff Origami ZionTCD Public Disorder. 70	Posted - 2014.01.11 15:39:00 - [252] - Quote You know the community is getting pretty ridiculous when we start crying OP before seeing any gameplay or any fitting stats. People are pretending to ignore the fact that there aren't already a hundred cheap ways to die already...one of them is called militia tanks. I hope they keep the ability to start firing while cloaked so we can at least see how it plays out. It would be nice to see a gameplay video of the cloak in action to give us some idea of the visual effect and how useful it is in practice rather than speculating how OP or UP it is based on a couple off-hand dev comments.
ECHO PACK GamersForChrist Orion Empire 82	Posted - 2014.01.11 19:20:00 - [253] - Quote Gaff Origami wrote: You know the community is getting pretty ridiculous when we start crying OP before seeing any gameplay or any fitting stats. People are pretending to ignore the fact that there aren't already a hundred cheap ways to die already...one of them is called militia tanks. I hope they keep the ability to start firing while cloaked so we can at least see how it plays out. It would be nice to see a gameplay video of the cloak in action to give us some idea of the visual effect and how useful it is in practice rather than speculating how OP or UP it is based on a couple off-hand dev comments. I agree. I bet the community will realise that all the ( don't shoot while cloak ) isn't a good idea if CCP showed a video of its gameplay. OP things aren't gamebreaking its been the community
Matticus Monk Ordus Trismegistus 973	Posted - 2014.01.11 19:40:00 - [254] - Quote DeeJay One wrote: Vulcanus Lightbringer wrote: Heavies can't use equipment though, so cloaked forge gunners won't be a problem either way... Oops. my bad. But getting and MD or a Plasma Cannon in the back is equally bad. I've rarely been killed by an MD or PC user I've seen before-hand. It's usually a from the roof, behind cover, or out of nowhere lucky / cheap shot... not a skill shot from someone who legitimately got the drop on me. I don't see how being invisible for the first shot from this weapon is really all that frightening, honestly. If they are already in their typical hidden, covered, camped spots... well, being cloaked there wouldn't change much from my view. Besides these guys typically go for multiple kills so if they now alter their tactics to approach and attack groups, well, it's added risk to expose yourself like that and then not kill all of your targets. Especially for PC user w/ 1 shot in the clip.... Honestly, I don't really see that much of an issue here. They will be running gimped fits to accomplish this anyway.... they will finally see what scouting is all about; gimping yourself and going for the paranoid, must-hit initial strike and then hoping you can get away or finish the job without dying. It will be great; every medium frame user will complain the cloak makes them UP and they can't use it effectively..... I doubt they will tolerate the drop in KDR to become even remotely threatening with the cloak in a medium frame.... Scouts can still hunt you down with passive scanning most likely - and we have tons of experience executing people and playing games with our prey when we can't see them (in the case now when they are behind walls or other structures....) TL;DR - not concerned with any of this. And still not using the stupid cloak, CCP. Please don't gimp my scout fits anymore or make me use some gimmick.
Marad''er Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 158	Posted - 2014.01.11 19:52:00 - [255] - Quote Marad''er wrote: Kain, I'd say we try it first with being able to shoot while cloaked. If after a month of data gathering and feedback, if is deemed that shooting while cloaked is not very good for gameplay, we can encourage CCP to take it away and see how that changes things. So first let them implement it with the shooting mechanic GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢ Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà Forum Warrior LV. 4 \| Warframe is awesome! \| PSN: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY
Doshneil Antaro Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 159	Posted - 2014.01.11 20:19:00 - [256] - Quote DeeJay One wrote: Vulcanus Lightbringer wrote: Heavies can't use equipment though, so cloaked forge gunners won't be a problem either way... Oops. my bad. But getting and MD or a Plasma Cannon in the back is equally bad. You forgot the minja weapon, the Nova Knife. They can stack damage mods and OHK almost every suit. If able to be done under cloak, it will be the newest FOTM.
Knight Soiaire BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 4381	Posted - 2014.01.11 20:22:00 - [257] - Quote Doshneil Antaro wrote: DeeJay One wrote: Vulcanus Lightbringer wrote: Heavies can't use equipment though, so cloaked forge gunners won't be a problem either way... Oops. my bad. But getting and MD or a Plasma Cannon in the back is equally bad. You forgot the minja weapon, the Nova Knife. They can stack damage mods and OHK almost every suit. If able to be done under cloak, it will be the newest FOTM. We haven't even seen a video of the cloak in action, haven't even seen any of its stats, and people are already calling it a FOTM. God I hate this community. Provider of Vanilla Scented Soap Bars EVE - White Sign Soapstone (Trial for newbs)
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2588	Posted - 2014.01.11 21:59:00 - [258] - Quote Knight Soiaire wrote: We haven't even seen a video of the cloak in action, haven't even seen any of its stats, and people are already calling it a FOTM. God I hate this community. What's worse is turning a blind eye and letting a bad mechanic go live in the game. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
mollerz Minja Scouts 1765	Posted - 2014.01.11 22:01:00 - [259] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Knight Soiaire wrote: We haven't even seen a video of the cloak in action, haven't even seen any of its stats, and people are already calling it a FOTM. God I hate this community. What's worse is turning a blind eye and letting a bad mechanic go live in the game. Like logis for the last year? lolz. This is the most self serving crutch player thread ever. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Knight Soiaire BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 4383	Posted - 2014.01.11 22:08:00 - [260] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Knight Soiaire wrote: We haven't even seen a video of the cloak in action, haven't even seen any of its stats, and people are already calling it a FOTM. God I hate this community. What's worse is turning a blind eye and letting a bad mechanic go live in the game. I take it you've seen the mechanic in action? I take it you've also seen the shimmer in action? Provider of Vanilla Scented Soap Bars EVE - White Sign Soapstone (Trial for newbs)

Marston VC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1484	Posted - 2014.01.11 22:08:00 - [261] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: GET ATMESON wrote: If the CPM have been "discussing" scouts why hasnt there been any post up by you guys saying "we talked about scouts today" "We might get these changes" Can you show the community any of this? I would like to see 1 post you made in General discussions. Link please. Unfortunately, we've actually been asked in many cases when we have meetings to consider even the fact that we have had a meeting NDA. This lack of transparency has probably been one of the more frustrating aspects of being on the CPM. I will also say the channels of communication with the Devs that are responsible for moment to moment gameplay have been spotty at best. For this reason I really wold like to applaud CCP Remant for publicly posting how the cloaks currently work so we can all discuss this. The forums are not our only avenue of communication or discussion. The CPM can be reached via, skype, email, and in-game almost 24/7. So no guns while in cloak, okay, but how about nova knives? Im not really a scout, but being able to use nova knives while cloaked would be pretty cool. It could be balanced by having the plasma part of the knives shine through the suit when it gets charged up. I think scout specialists would appreciate that. Marston VC, STB Director
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 204	Posted - 2014.01.11 22:23:00 - [262] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Knight Soiaire wrote: We haven't even seen a video of the cloak in action, haven't even seen any of its stats, and people are already calling it a FOTM. God I hate this community. What's worse is turning a blind eye and letting a bad mechanic go live in the game. Still yet to see a proper explanation as to why the mechanic is so bad. And I'm starting to see that all these 'suggestions' are just an attempt to protect the current meta by nerfing an as of yet unreleased item so that it's of no use. If you don't like the mechanic, then petition to not have it introduced, don't push to nerf it. Say what you mean instead of trying to sabotage it.
excillon Nova Corps Marines Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 153	Posted - 2014.01.11 22:27:00 - [263] - Quote Signed. Absolutely. Scouts need a buff but not like this.
Denn Maell PIanet Express Canis Eliminatus Operatives 43	Posted - 2014.01.12 00:13:00 - [264] - Quote /Signed I'm really not looking forward to snipers and shot gunners getting this buff. An indefinitely cloaked sniper who could be anywhere? Question: Do we have any info on whether this will be a 'as long as its in our hands we're cloaked' or more of a temporary buff mechanic?
Horizen Kenpachi TACTICAL STRIKE ELITE 89	Posted - 2014.01.12 00:33:00 - [265] - Quote Let ccp do as they please if it needs tweaking they can but it shold be fine adapt or die Hit me with your nerf bat.
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2589	Posted - 2014.01.12 00:49:00 - [266] - Quote Horizen Kenpachi wrote: Let ccp do as they please if it needs tweaking they can but it shold be fine adapt or die I'm confident players have the skill to adapt to using a cloak effectively without having to alpha damage whilst unseen. Adapt or Die cuts both ways. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 791	Posted - 2014.01.12 00:53:00 - [267] - Quote Research on cloaks in FPS games should give them more then enough to learn off of. Sadly I don't have 100% faith that CCP would do this. Making something Over Powered out of the gate with somewhat fore knowledge of it is what is actively killing your population more then any one feature or change. Meh there is still enough population you can take a couple more hits before huge red flags go up eh?
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 206	Posted - 2014.01.12 01:57:00 - [268] - Quote Denn Maell wrote: /Signed I'm really not looking forward to snipers and shot gunners getting this buff. An indefinitely cloaked sniper who could be anywhere? Question: Do we have any info on whether this will be a 'as long as its in our hands we're cloaked' or more of a temporary buff mechanic? Temporary. There's a limited amount of time you can spend in cloak, conditions that break cloak, and a cool down after the cloak ends. There's also a hard counter for it (active scanner) as cloaked units still appear on scanner, and a couple of soft counters (shimmer when moving and targeting reticule still turns red when over a cloaked unit). Known details are: - The cloak field is a piece of equipment. - When selected the cortex is raised and you press fire to activate it. - Once activated, it goes away and your weapon is raised. You can switch to other weapons/equipment while cloaked. - You cloak. The amount of "shimmer" is increased as you move so standing still you will be nigh invisible, but when moving you will be noticeable to an extent. When cloaked, you obviously have no chevron or health bars, but the enemy reticule will flash red if you run past it. - Cloak can be deactivated by selecting it and pressing fire. - Once deactivated or it runs out it will start to recharge. - Firing a weapon while cloaked will rapidly deplete the cloak field (a single shot from a sniper rifle, for instance, will decloak you) - You can only fit one cloak field at a time. Here's the relevant dev posts: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1699636#post1699636 And here's my take on the utilisation of cloaks: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1702679#post1702679 As of yet no specific information is available (fitting, cool downs, etc) and no one has seen it in action, so it is impossible to determine whether it is over powered, under powered, or any other sort of powered. The rest is just fear-mongering and conjecture.
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2590	Posted - 2014.01.12 03:35:00 - [269] - Quote The dev posts clearly enumerates to overarching design intent, which is to allow an alpha strike whilst cloaked . Fitting, cool downs, etc don't matter at that point because the mechanics described by Remnant's post mean a round will leave a weapon unaffected by the cloak and will allow a player to line up a headshot, pull the trigger, and 1 or more of those shots will be with the user "nigh invisible" while still. This is the aspect of the mechanic that is unacceptable. No firing while cloaked. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 207	Posted - 2014.01.12 04:34:00 - [270] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: The dev posts clearly enumerates to overarching design intent, which is to allow an alpha strike whilst cloaked . Fitting, cool downs, etc don't matter at that point because the mechanics described by Remnant's post mean a round will leave a weapon unaffected by the cloak and will allow a player to line up a headshot, pull the trigger, and 1 or more of those shots will be with the user "nigh invisible" while still. This is the aspect of the mechanic that is unacceptable. No firing while cloaked. How is this scenario substantively different from being headshot by a sniper? Do sniper rifles need to be subject to a nerf so that they are unable to make a head shot while being "nigh invisible" because they're 400m away? How about rail tanks shooting from red line to red line? What's being advocated in these threads is nerf of a specific piece of equipment for all usage scenarios due to one very specific usage scenario, which is already replicated in game by other methods which require substantially less risk from the user, and don't suffer from the mitigating control (hard and soft counters) inbuilt into the cloaking mechanism. If you can explain to me how the cloak is game breaking, or how it is blatantly unfair when compared to other pre-existing mechanics such as sniping, then I'll be happy to support changes. But at the moment all I've seen is conjecture and fear-mongering with nothing to substantiate it.



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