So what this thread has turned into is a bunch of bad players that want to abuse a broke mechanic (yeah i looked up your kdr) and the rest of us that don't want ccp to break dust.

Like i said before if CCP Rouge wants to show he is captain of this ship he will nix cloaks for now and have ccp fix scouts without breaking them.

This all makes sense now. Using knives in dust is nothing more than a novelty. I'm neither for or against them but just don't see them as a realistic and viable option in dust at the moment. CCP has a hard time with melee being OP and errors on the side of caution. With cloaks melee because very dangerous option because players ability to react once you are being hacked by a knifer.

It's obvious he just wants to camp and knife people because it give his playing style an advantage. His opinion is just him trying to justify what he sees as retribution for the current weakness of scouts and knifers.

Novelty? 1v1 My knives vs your gun and I don't need a ******* cloak

Beers, honesty, keep your f'ing cloak. Just don't nerf us. I won't run it at the expense of dampening or alpha damage, and don't need it.

Reminds me of KZ3, where everybody was using the sniper class for the cloaks

Why do you assume the cpm doesn't have all the details.

When I read about cloaks in the forums I asked kain on skype if this is for real. He linked me this thread and said cpm is 100% against it. The day the cloak info came out so did this post by kane. They were waiting for the info to go public so they could publicly voice against it.

You have been around here for a while are you not tired of ccp "lets just try this" design management approach?

Novelty? 1v1 My knives vs your gun and I don't need a ******* cloak

Yes, I'm a scout and have been since replication. I have 5 accounts where the main toon has over 12 mill sp so i play just about every suit/weapon/vehicle in dust these days. Reading your response its obvious you are the one being bias as per your anti proto logi statement. I get it proto logis touched you in a bad place and now you want revenge against them. So you want to cloak and shot gun them. Can you be any more obvious?

Being invisible to most scanners and being invisible to sight are completely different things in dust

Side note: How can you say its mobility? Get in an LAV or DS and go to the other side of the map. The most I will run is on the edge of map to drop links to help take the objective. Why? Thats what vehicles are for don't do things the hard way and they say that's how you play a scout.

The fact of the matter is firing while cloaked is a bad mechanic for everyone. Also, the fact that CCP is wrapping up the performance of a scout and "fixing" it with a cloak is problematic.

Dust is more than about one role and one style of play. Thinking that making sure the cloak lands in a way that is not damaging to the game as whole is some sort of attack on a particular role is short sighted at best.

SoGǪ
Is this a statement of "The update for scouts will only be centred around cloaks and they will not be functional without them."
Wonderful

I really hope that's not how it lands. As it stands CCP says that these things aren't set in stone. Scouts should be able to have a choice of how they run their suits and shouldn't be forced to use a specific piece of equipment to be viable.

The fact of the matter is firing while cloaked is a bad mechanic for everyone. Also, the fact that CCP is wrapping up the performance of a scout and "fixing" it with a cloak is problematic.

Dust is more than about one role and one style of play. Thinking that making sure the cloak lands in a way that is not damaging to the game as whole is some sort of attack on a particular role is short sighted at best.

The fact of the matter is firing while cloaked is a bad mechanic for everyone.

On the issue of alpha damge weapons, there are differences between the ranged and the cqc knives and shotguns.

No matter if you believe it or not, a sniper getting headshots takes real skill, and should imho should OHK all med suits of the same level as the weapon.

I also believe a shotgun to the head should be a OHK, as it takes skill to get in close stealthly and line up a head shot. Doing so cloaked, takes the skill out of it.

Now onto the knives. I expect hate from this, but my feelings will not be hurt. No easy to fit sidearm should have OHK mechanics in place. Easy to fit proto as well as proto mods. Now add in cloaking to the mix and people will see how rediculous they are and everyone will jump on the bandwagon. I do know the hit mechanics are still not the best for them yet, but that is another issue that should be addresses else where. They need an increase to cpu/pg as well as making them break after x amount of hits, but can be fixed via nanohives/supply depots.

I agree with everything you've said except the first sentence.


Neither you, nor anyone else calling for a nerf, has been able to provide solid reasoning for why firing from cloak is so bad that it should be considered broken, or breaks the game. Until you provide actual reasoning for it, its not a fact, it's your opinion.

And the fact that you've focused exclusively on that single point issue of firing from cloak instead of talking about any other problems with the implementation, or the failure to address actual issues with scouts, lead me to believe that you're not being entirely transparent in your claims.

Edit: Just one quick update. Apologies if it seems like this is coming across as antagonistic, that's not my intent. Just trying to understand the situation.

Is a start https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DUvjuvKeak

The fact of the matter is firing while cloaked is a bad mechanic for everyone. Also, the fact that CCP is wrapping up the performance of a scout and "fixing" it with a cloak is problematic.

No. Not even vaguely.

Once again, this has nothing to do with the situation at hand. Someone hacking COD to be invisible and invincible has nothing to do with the explicit introduction of a stealth mechanic into a game, particularly where there are known hard and soft counters that compliment the introduction. You're just making things worse.

I'll explain this again for the cheap seats:
Just write down what the problem is and why cloaking, and specifically firing from cloak, is so inherently broken that you're trying to sabotage it's implementation since you're unable to stop it coming into game. No hypotheticals, no links off site, just the straight facts as you see them.

If cloaking is that big a problem, it shouldn't be so hard to explain. And if you find that you have to resort to hyperbole and fear-mongering to get your point across, then maybe you need to reconsider your position.

For me the whole idea of this game loses it's charm if people are forced into fittings, this is one of the reasons I did not like the idea of "Scout Only" on the cloak, though I feel more needs to be done to balance the equipment and suits out for play. I just can't say to much about it until I actually have information, when that info drops I will be giving my full opinion on it.

How about make it so that active scanners outline cloaked scouts in a red tint so you can detect them?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63Wx4_Dcd4Q

This one is a non invincible one,

Imagine yourself as ever one of those guys that got stabbed. You'd think with squad comms they'd knew there was an invisible guy running around.

Once again, this has nothing to do with the situation at hand. Someone hacking BF4 to be invisible has nothing to do with the explicit introduction of a stealth mechanic into a game, particularly where there are known hard and soft counters that compliment the introduction. You're just making things worse.

I'll explain this again for the cheap seats:
Just write down what the problem is and why cloaking, and specifically firing from cloak, is so inherently broken that you're trying to sabotage it's implementation since you're unable to stop it coming into game. No hypotheticals, no links off site, just the straight facts as you see them.

If cloaking is that big a problem, it shouldn't be so hard to explain. And if you find that you have to resort to hyperbole and fear-mongering to get your point across, then maybe you need to reconsider your position.

I don't see a problem if scouts are "forced" to use cloaks. But note that in the strictest sense, you aren't forced to use anything, except fitting at least one weapon. However, some fitting choices make more sense than others, which is perfectly logical. For instance, you can fit a heavy with nova knives and profile dampeners, and try to play as a scout. There's no mechanic forcing you to use a HMG or forge, or anything else. The only thing "forcing" you is your common sense.

If scouts are meant to be used with cloaks, so be it. There are entire ship classes in EVE (covert ops, force recons, etc.) that are designed to use cloaks in the same sense scouts seem to will be. They get skill bonuses to fitting cloaks, and other cloak-specific abilities that other ship classes do not have. But in principle, you don't have to fit a cloak on those ships if you don't want to. It only makes (much) more sense if you do. And nobody is having an issue with that.

The potential problem is fitting cloaks on non-scouts. If fitting a cloak on non-scout dropsuit turns out to be a viable option (meaning, CPU/PG cost will be tolerable for other classes), then DUST could quickly turn to ninja-land, and that will break the game more than anything. EVE resolved this by making 2 types of cloaking devices - one for ships that are meant to be cloaky, and the other for everything else. The former being far better and useable than the latter, of course.

How about make it so that active scanners outline cloaked scouts in a red tint so you can detect them?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63Wx4_Dcd4Q

This one is a non invincible one,

Imagine yourself as ever one of those guys that got stabbed. You'd think with squad comms they'd knew there was an invisible guy running around

I agree with everything you've said except the first sentence.


Neither you, nor anyone else calling for a nerf, has been able to provide solid reasoning for why firing from cloak is so bad that it should be considered broken, or breaks the game. Until you provide actual reasoning for it, its not a fact, it's your opinion.

And the fact that you've focused exclusively on that single point issue of firing from cloak instead of talking about any other problems with the implementation, or the failure to address actual issues with scouts, lead me to believe that you're not being entirely transparent in your claims.

Edit: Just one quick update. Apologies if it seems like this is coming across as antagonistic, that's not my intent. Just trying to understand the situation.

Because this is what you can do in a game with all those restrictions about not firing with cloaks are present, now double or triple that carnage. I've done this plenty of times, I specialise as a CQC Infiltrator in PS2