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CPM: Petition to CCP Regarding Cloaks

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2460	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:38:00 - [1] - Quote Dear CCP and the Community of Dust 514, I would like it the made publicly and clearly known that the CPM does not support the ability to fire a weapon while cloaked. If you support this (and even if you don't) I encourage you to post your thoughts so that CCP can hear our voices and change the course away from what would be a game-breaking mechanic. The devil is always in the details, but I think we can all agree that firing while cloaking is a line in the sand that CCP must not cross. /signed Kain Spero of CPM 0 Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2467	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:52:00 - [2] - Quote Arx, no first shot while cloaked. Either switching to a weapon should decloak you or have it where you have to manually deactivate the cloak to fire a weapon. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2467	Posted - 2014.01.09 19:54:00 - [3] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: I agree with Kain Spero. As a possible rework, I suggest the cloaking cortex must be held in your hands for it to be active. If you were to switch and put a weapon or other equipment in your hand, that would put the cloaking cortex away and thus you would no longer be cloaked. And as a replacement for the Caldari scout bonus who would be affected by this, perhaps change it to 5% cloaking duration per level. In terms of my personal feelings, I agree with exactly this. I know there are differing views though. 1 thing must be clear. No weapons fire while cloaked, first shot or otherwise. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2470	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:04:00 - [4] - Quote R F Gyro wrote: If they give us the ability to fire while cloaked, then realise it is a mistake and try to take it away, there'll be hell to pay. If they initially don't allow cloaked shooting, then later decide to enable it (maybe in a limited fashion, such as with special weapon variants), things will be much easier. So I'm happy to support this. Totally spot on. Let cloaks land with a no fire limitation and then let's go from there. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2473	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:15:00 - [5] - Quote DISGRUNTLEDev wrote: F@k you Kain. Can scouts have any love? Seriously, it's been a year. You should start a petition about shotguns and Nova Knives too. Get F***ed. I'm not saying remove the cloak. My only concern with this petition is to not allow anyone to fire a weapon while cloaked. I have played with you often enough to know with the ability to move unseen you have the skills needed to wreak havock without having to cross the line of shooting while cloaked. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2477	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:38:00 - [6] - Quote pseudosnipre wrote: CPM would rather focus on ability to fire while cloaked and NOT on the ease with which the new logi bonus will facilitate fitting of cloaks? Bravo. Also, cloaking is NOT going to benefit the highly talented scouts that still play the suit...they're already invisible to the mouth-breathing, tacnet-dependent masses. How easy a cloak is to fit is one of the devils in the details of the stats of the cloak itself and what the suits bonuses actually end up at. Whether or not you can fire while cloaked is a high level aspect of the cloak field's design that needs to be nipped in the bud. That doesn't mean there aren't other issues (can you use equipment while cloaked, can other suits fit a cloak, etc) that don't need to be address. With the specific stats still an unknown, I think the firing while cloaked issues is something that can be openly discussed among the community and it can be an issues where we can make ourselves heard loud and clear without having to worry about the ambiguity that unfinalized suit bonuses and stats brings. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2477	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:49:00 - [7] - Quote mollerz wrote: No matter what- we should be able to hold a weapon/equipment while cloaked. Holding what is tantamount to a cloaking lantern with both hands whilst traipsing through a battlefield is lame, and no advanced technological combat cloak wouldn't let you be hands free so you could hold a weapon, climb a ladder, etc. And wait a second... Does Kain even play scout? If not.. sorry man. This is just QQ wrapped up in a med frame blanket petition. Downvote to this CPM in an election, scouts. Actually, I agree that scouts have been in a bad place. The CPM has discussed with CCP as well that the scout should be a viable role even when a cloak isn't used. Sure scouts can use a cloak better if you look at the bonuses on SiSi, but they need to be effective in their own right as well. I have not put the hours into a scout that the experts have, but from my experience the scout is one of the most challenging and at the same time exhilarating roles in the game. I don't think the improvements to scouts should stop with a cloak. I really feel they should be the information specialists on the field as well. I just want it to be clear that shooting while cloaked shouldn't be a thing and if based on that premise further adjustments need to be made to the scout role them I'm all for it. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2482	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:54:00 - [8] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: I agree that, done poorly, a cloaking mechanic would be terrible for the game. However, we do not have all the numbers and we still have time to cause changes. Once we have the full statistics for the modules and how the mechanics operate, we will be able to generate actual, useful feedback. This thread is a kneejerk reaction, though not unwarranted. I support the notion that R F Gyro had: implement it with firing disallowed and bring in variants/introduce cloaked firing later. Baby steps. There is no kneejerk here. It's just that with how the cloaks function being publicly posted we can talk about this openly with you all since it was previous in NDA hell. The CPM has been adamant that you should not be able to fire while cloaked from the very first time the issue of cloaks was brought up. I agree that R F Gyro's position nails it on the head. Implement with firing disallowed. We can then see the gameplay impact and thoughtfully discuss future baby steps of iteration. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2484	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:01:00 - [9] - Quote GET ATMESON wrote: If the CPM have been "discussing" scouts why hasnt there been any post up by you guys saying "we talked about scouts today" "We might get these changes" Can you show the community any of this? I would like to see 1 post you made in General discussions. Link please. Unfortunately, we've actually been asked in many cases when we have meetings to consider even the fact that we have had a meeting NDA. This lack of transparency has probably been one of the more frustrating aspects of being on the CPM. I will also say the channels of communication with the Devs that are responsible for moment to moment gameplay have been spotty at best. For this reason I really wold like to applaud CCP Remant for publicly posting how the cloaks currently work so we can all discuss this. The forums are not our only avenue of communication or discussion. The CPM can be reached via, skype, email, and in-game almost 24/7. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2489	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:11:00 - [10] - Quote Spectre-M wrote: +1. Invisible caldari snipers will be game breaking. Cloaks should not be tied to combat, they should be tied to mobility and positioning. Get behind enemy lines to drop uplinks and push while reinforcement spawns in from behind. Tactical cloaks, not combat cloaks. Totally agree. I think more discussion can be done once cloaks actually land, but the first iteration needs to be no firing allowed. I've played numerous games where cloaking was a critical part of the game. I sunk tons of hours into Aliens versus Predator (1999), AvP2, and Aliens vs Predator on the console. Cloaking had to be thoughtfully implemented and the weapons that could be fired while cloaked had specific balance elements related to cloaking (the visible red laser projected while the plasma castor was charged etc.). Allowing all weapons to whole sale have a first shot while cloaked would be horrible and ruin the fps experience of Dust 514. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news

Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2494	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:43:00 - [11] - Quote Hawkings Greenback wrote: Firing any weapon or using equipment should cause the cloak to deactivate. Also I would like to see a cloak destabilise if something gets close. Basically the same kind of principle as EVE. The threshold really needs to be cloak deactivates and then you can fire. How quickly that process happens can be up for discussion, but for me the threshold needs to be that the cloak is dropped before any damage can happen. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2494	Posted - 2014.01.09 21:58:00 - [12] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: This seems like a whole lot of paranoia over a mechanic that nobody is fully sure how it works. Assuming there is a significant shimmer effect, I see no problem with letting people fire their weapon cloaked, but assuming that the shimmer effect is basically nil, then it should be reworked so that no shots may be fired whilst cloaked. Simple as that. The current extent of invisibility: CCP Remnant wrote: Standing still you will be nigh invisible, but when moving you will be noticeable to an extent. Going from "nigh invisible" to applying damage is why you should not be able to fire shots while cloaked. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2498	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:22:00 - [13] - Quote Gunner Nightingale wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: [quote=Kain Spero] Being able to not shoot while cloak invalidates the purpose behind it. Cloak is there to give scouts the assassination role, to remain unseen. Requiring scouts to "hold it" or deactivate prior to shooting gimps us more than we are currently. No expert scout would ever even use a cloak. Especially since it "shimmers" more greatly with increased movement speed.....oh wait, aren't scouts the fastest frame in Dust. Scouts continue to get nerfed...even the gal role bonus is getting nerfed...YAY. So why not just make that apply to only when equipping nova knives? Or maintain cloak during any melee action. Honestly, I'm on the fence about melee damage while cloaked and I see that as an issue separate from shooting while cloaked. Those issues can be discussed as well, again I just don't want the specter of shooting while cloaked to fall on Dust like a plague. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2503	Posted - 2014.01.09 22:40:00 - [14] - Quote DISGRUNTLEDev wrote: The problem Kain is that from the stats we know, the scout bonuses are getting nerfed so we can get the bonus to the cloak. All the other suits are getting at least good bonuses, but we have an unknown bonus and you are already trying to nerf it. After a year of steady stealth nerfs to scouts. I hear you. I really think that idea of making it where scouts are forced to take a cloak to be effective is crazy. A cloak should be a tool in your toolbox and not forced on you to make the scout role effective. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2508	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:04:00 - [15] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: All I have to say the delay between decloak and shooting for scouts better be short as hell. Like, insanely short. I can get within 3m of an enemy without a cloak, fire, and have him turn around and kill me in a couple shots. If I have to decloak with a loud ass noise, wait a second, then fire you will have more scout deaths than before because it will hinder more than it will help. This will be even more worthless since Minjas will be the least stealthy and shittiest with cloaks. I'm okay with having to decloak to fire but it needs to be able to happen fluidly, fast, and natural. The more cumbersome this mechanic is for scouts the more you will be hurting the class. This should not be used to merely help a scout cross an open field or cross the street. This needs to help them IN COMBAT as well as out of it. Some really good points. For me the line in the sand is that you have to decloak before you fire. Everything else is up in the air. There just needs to be a firewall between actively cloaking and firing a weapon. I agree it needs to be fluid process, but the line of shooting while cloaked should not be crossed. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2512	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:31:00 - [16] - Quote DISGRUNTLEDev wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1702030#post1702030 Yeah, I definitely see how the cloak on other suits could become a big issue especially when CPU and PG differences are taken into account. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2512	Posted - 2014.01.09 23:37:00 - [17] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Scouts should just receive a straight up 50% reduction to fitting requirements for cloak, and keep their current per level bonus / get a new one. In terms of the Scout role as I whole I would tend to agree. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2534	Posted - 2014.01.10 03:14:00 - [18] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: J4yne C0bb wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: After giving it much thought, I now agree with you. Make the cloak so that it at least requires you to hold the cloak trigger in your hand in order to maintain cloak. If you swap around, you lose cloak. Yes, this. Cloaking should only allow you to get into an advantageous position to begin firing, not to be able to fire while hidden, even for a moment. It should work similar to the RE detonator, where you have to have it in hand to use and activate it, and you de-cloak if the equipment is not in hand. As we all know (or should), you can easily hit L2 quickly to switch from your equipment to your primary weapon, so if the cloak were to operate as outlined above, this would allow a merc to de-cloak quickly and begin firing -- a significant advantage, and a welcome new twist to gameplay. However, if we allowed firing from cloak, a merc could get position, switch to his primary and be able to line up his first shot, presumably to the head. This is an OP advantage, which personally I think borders on game-breaking. No to firing under cloak. That is the best idea I've seen so far. The cloak is a piece of equipment that you hold. You could give different cloaks a variety of cool down mechanics, sort of like an active scanner. Some have a period where you stay cloaked for 1 second after switching away from equipment but suffer from a 10 second cool down period. Others could go in and out of cloak at quicker intervals. I'd say that a second equipment slot is a must. Or give one of the suits two equipment slots and no sidearm. I don't see how it's possible to have a fully viable stealth scout if he couldn't be stealthy while killing and placing uplinks. Really good stuff. The cloak as a piece of equipment that if you switch off it decloaks really does seem good. I agree that scout suits with more then 1 equipment slot sound like they need to be a thing. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2543	Posted - 2014.01.10 06:18:00 - [19] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: This all depends on the TTK issue for me. If TTK remains the same and shooting first is pretty much the only important variable in who will win, then I support this, but with a major caveat. You can decloak by pulling the trigger on your weapon. It won't shoot and you'd have some delay before being able to fire (something like 0.5 - 1.5 secs), but you can at least ADS, line up your shot while you're decloaking instead of f*cking around with the radial equipment menu. If TTK is increased to where it should be (slightly longer than 1.4 -1.5, shorter than 1.3) then I think shooting while cloaked should stay. Slightly off topic: Logi equipment bonuses should NOT apply to fitting cloaks. They should still be able to fit them, but it should require major sacrifices in the fit like with assaults, commandos, etc. I agree with your sentiments about fumbling with the radial menu, but ADSing and lining up a shot (think sniper rifle) would be one of the reasons to go for switching to a weapon causing a decloak. Totally agree about the logi equipment bonus not applying to the cloak. Hopefully that is something that can be commented on by CCP Wolfman or CCP Remnant. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2545	Posted - 2014.01.10 10:57:00 - [20] - Quote dust badger wrote: Rasatsu wrote: The OP is a bad poster, probably complains about how CCP doesn't communicate well enough and then posts that kind of a blooper. We already know that firing decreases the cloak's foo-level, and it should be obvious that this is an easily tweakable parameter. So basically you guys are sperging because it might take more than one shot of an assault rifle to deplete the cloak, and then go from there to assuming you can empty a clip into an enemy while cloaked. The CPM needs to get better at communicating so that we don't get threadnaughts. The main concern i believe people have are with weapons that you dont need to fire more than one shot, head shot with a shotty or a scram pistol while cloak will near enough kill you depending on your fit and if they dont kill you they decloak and shoot you once more before you have time to react. Pretty much this. Most weapons have little to no cycle time from one shot to the next. A smooth decloak animation would take at a minimum amount of time, so as the cloak is dropping the bullets that are going to kill your target when you fire from a cloak are already in the air. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news

Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2545	Posted - 2014.01.10 11:58:00 - [21] - Quote iceyburnz wrote: I agree. But I also hate clumsy controls. NO TO SWITCHING. Your cloaked. You pull your trigger, you decloak. Then you can fire. There should probably be a delay until you can fire. Yeah, so basically your saying you can switch to any equipment or weapon you want but you pull the trigger to deactivate the cloak? Sounds good. I would add if you have a weapon ADSing should also have the same effect as pulling the trigger to deactivate the cloak. Same as hitting the grenade button. Hit grenade button. Cloak Deactivates. HIt again and cook or throw nade as normal. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2554	Posted - 2014.01.10 14:51:00 - [22] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: Just saying, I'd like to see what CCP put together before we change it. This is why we need to be able to link up to SISI server. Lets see what happens with this cloaked firing, the recharge on the cloak, it might not be as crazy as you think. If it's anything like Knova Knives then your fears are misplaced. Cloaked while firing is a bad mechanic, and doing a "let's see how it works out" with an obviously bad and broken mechanic would be irresponsible. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2574	Posted - 2014.01.10 23:46:00 - [23] - Quote DISGRUNTLEDev wrote: Free Beers wrote: I still say people that want to cloak and shoot are bad players that just want free kills. I play scout on my other toon and the idea of scouts being cloaky campers disgusts me. Maybe ccp can try and think of ways to make scouts better instead of putting all their eggs in the cloak basket. For the love of all things holy dont make scouts just a gimmicky suit. We're a gimmicky suit now! We can hide from scanners and still be speedy. Medium frames can do one or the other better than we can, and some can do both better than we can. The major problem scouts have with this petition is that our bonus is now only cloaks, and a racial gimmick, and you're trying to take it away. You have to understand that if the cloak doesn't work when it's deployed, this is going to be a major nerf to an already undesirable suit. A buff to a piece of equipment that doesn't work? How pissed would logis be if their bonus was to needles and they only worked 30% of the time? Oh, wait, the logi has some thing else going for it. Hiding is all we do. Why are you trying to make it even harder to do? Two wrongs don't make a right. Just because CCP has put so much weight on the cloak for the proposed scout suit bonuses doesn't mean that we should throw our hands up in the air and let a broken mechanic like shooting while cloaked be introduced to the game. The fact that scouts are trying to be fixed by making them have cloak bonuses is silly to begin with. A scout with a cloak should be an option available to a scout for how they fit their suit and not the only viable option. The way it seems right now cloaks will be something available to all suits and that means the problems that would go along with being able to shoot while cloaked. Again, if you really think you would only be able to make use of a cloak if you can shoot while it's active then you need to take a step back and really examine the battlefield advantages of being visually invisible in an FPS that relies so heavily on visual combat. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2575	Posted - 2014.01.11 00:54:00 - [24] - Quote Surt gods end wrote: Then make it so that first shot cancels the cloak. not mutiple shots. First shot from any gun cancels the cloak. it's not rocket science. But if you have to switch cloak off to kill, then it MUST BE INSTANTANEOUS. Other wise you negate the assassination. And there is NO counter in any FPS game for that. Nor should there be. That's the reward for the scout to be able to get within breathing space of you to smell a fart. Except then you have first shots from cloaked Thales and invisible shotguns in the corners. In regards to switching off the cloak to kill, my only line in the sand regarding that is that the killing part doesn't occur at the same time as being cloaked. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2576	Posted - 2014.01.11 02:33:00 - [25] - Quote Surt gods end wrote: Shion Typhon wrote: Surt gods end wrote: Then make it so that first shot cancels the cloak. not mutiple shots. First shot from any gun cancels the cloak. it's not rocket science. But if you have to switch cloak off to kill, then it MUST BE INSTANTANEOUS. Other wise you negate the assassination. And there is NO counter in any FPS game for that. Nor should there be. That's the reward for the scout to be able to get within breathing space of you to smell a fart. I really seriously recommend going and playing an Infiltrator in Planetside 2 where you need to manually disable cloaks before firing. The shenanigans you can accomplish are amazing, you don't need to fire while cloaked. The VAST majority of PVP games that allow cloaked alpha strikes, suck balls. If you don't know this you haven't played enough other games. Ask any MMO player what they think about cloaked damage. Well this. I only play FPS games (and horror games) which is where I'm coming from as regards to cloaking. No matter how you slice it, Dust is a FPS. It plays as a FPS. And when you start ignoring too many staples and mechanics of what makes a FPS fun.. well you get dust. (And the tank fiasco) Dust will always be reviewed and judged as a FPS, no matter what console or rig it's on. I know some ladies and blokes that play mmo games. Here and in RL. But I never really asked about their game. Maybe I will. Planetside 2 is really more FPS then anything else. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2583	Posted - 2014.01.11 11:01:00 - [26] - Quote DeeJay, No reason to have some crazy suicide button coded in. I do agree with those that are saying going from cloaked to able to fire needs to be smooth as long as we don't have cloaked firing. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2588	Posted - 2014.01.11 21:59:00 - [27] - Quote Knight Soiaire wrote: We haven't even seen a video of the cloak in action, haven't even seen any of its stats, and people are already calling it a FOTM. God I hate this community. What's worse is turning a blind eye and letting a bad mechanic go live in the game. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2589	Posted - 2014.01.12 00:49:00 - [28] - Quote Horizen Kenpachi wrote: Let ccp do as they please if it needs tweaking they can but it shold be fine adapt or die I'm confident players have the skill to adapt to using a cloak effectively without having to alpha damage whilst unseen. Adapt or Die cuts both ways. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2590	Posted - 2014.01.12 03:35:00 - [29] - Quote The dev posts clearly enumerates to overarching design intent, which is to allow an alpha strike whilst cloaked . Fitting, cool downs, etc don't matter at that point because the mechanics described by Remnant's post mean a round will leave a weapon unaffected by the cloak and will allow a player to line up a headshot, pull the trigger, and 1 or more of those shots will be with the user "nigh invisible" while still. This is the aspect of the mechanic that is unacceptable. No firing while cloaked. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2596	Posted - 2014.01.13 03:43:00 - [30] - Quote The fact of the matter is firing while cloaked is a bad mechanic for everyone. Also, the fact that CCP is wrapping up the performance of a scout and "fixing" it with a cloak is problematic. Dust is more than about one role and one style of play. Thinking that making sure the cloak lands in a way that is not damaging to the game as whole is some sort of attack on a particular role is short sighted at best. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news

Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2597	Posted - 2014.01.13 03:58:00 - [31] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: Kain Spero wrote: The fact of the matter is firing while cloaked is a bad mechanic for everyone. Also, the fact that CCP is wrapping up the performance of a scout and "fixing" it with a cloak is problematic. Dust is more than about one role and one style of play. Thinking that making sure the cloak lands in a way that is not damaging to the game as whole is some sort of attack on a particular role is short sighted at best. SoGÇª Is this a statement of "The update for scouts will only be centred around cloaks and they will not be functional without them." Wonderful I really hope that's not how it lands. As it stands CCP says that these things aren't set in stone. Scouts should be able to have a choice of how they run their suits and shouldn't be forced to use a specific piece of equipment to be viable. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2600	Posted - 2014.01.13 14:20:00 - [32] - Quote Firing while cloaked allows a player to alpha strike and get the upper hand in an engagement and deny the player under attack the ability to respond to the threat effectively. It essentially creates an I-win tool for winning a firefight in many situations especially with the current time to kill. It basically adds a gimmicky mechanic to a tool that could potentially bring a lot of tactical variation to the battlefield. Shooting while cloaked will turn it into something that decreases the enjoyment and how fun Dust is on a whole. I'm already concerned with how much cloaks will slow down the game even if they have no ability to shoot while cloaked. The ability to shoot while cloaked just pushes the mechanic over the top. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2605	Posted - 2014.01.13 19:59:00 - [33] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Dammit Spero, I miss the old days when nothing but trolls and egotistical posts came outta Imps. Not this logical community minded crap. You need to get Zitro and Omni Zitro back in here to mix things up, you and steadyhand are ruining my nostalgia. Reggy's the only troll holdout I see left, and even he's been helpful over the last few months /signed (Does ReFlex still play? I've not seen him since Chromosome... ) ReFlex has actually been trying out the assault dropship. Many IMPs have always had an eye to improving the game as a whole. Our trolls just happen to be some of the loudest and the hardest hitting. The Zitros are definitely missed. ....... Whether or not the cloak has to be held the whole time it's active I don't know. As long as you can't shoot at the same time you are cloaked is my main sticking point. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2624	Posted - 2014.01.14 14:04:00 - [34] - Quote Brokerib wrote: Nova Knife wrote: mollerz wrote: As a proto scout since chromosome. This thread is a joke. It's a self serving BS move by people who are highly skilled into other frames. This thread is nothing more than an abuse of the CPM designation to represent the game before their own interests to progress and better the game we all sandbox in. CPM is corrupt. As a proto scout since the true Uprising 1.0 (The first one, that ran from Dec 2011 until may 2012).... Your post is uninformed. I would love nothing more than to be a badass stealthy assassin with my knives wielding a cloak to terrorize my victims. I just recognize that what suits myself and my own desires are not always what equal a fun and fair experience for everyone or healthy for the game as a whole. While the scouts should be the most adept at using cloaks... I think it's really crappy to shoehorn them into a role that relies on an OP mechanic in order to make them useful again. Scouts need more than that to be fun. Cloaks as proposed by CCP are -not- the answer to the ever-present question of "How do we make scout suits not suck?" This is a battle that needs to be fought elsewhere, with other solutions. (IMO) Then mobilise the CPM to advocate for the improvement of scouts, not just the destruction of cloaks. If you continue to advocate for the destruction of cloaks without working to change how they are implemented for scouts, it will destroy the viability of the class. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=135730&find=unread If you think the CPM hasn't been advocating for improvements to the scout you are obviously misinformed. Again I think the scouts need bonuses that aren't tied to cloaks (or they have cloak and additional bonuses). The scout needs to be a good frame in its own right and not just because of a cloak. I know the other CPM have specific points about cloaks, but my only thing is a player not being able to shoot while cloaked. Plus, I agree that if you decloak before firing then going from cloaked to an action should be fluid. Again if you think that this is somehow an attack on scouts you need to look beyond your own role and also realize that if bad mechanics lay at the feet of the cloak it's going to be an issue with all of the suits not just the scout. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2634	Posted - 2014.01.15 08:35:00 - [35] - Quote The CPM meeting with CCP Remant and CCP Wolfman went well I think and the community thoughts here were actually quite helpful, so thank you to all who posted. You can read up on some of what was discussed here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1721939#post1721939 Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news

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