DUST Search - CPM: Petition to CCP Regarding Cloaks

Brokerib wrote:

Nova Knife wrote:

mollerz wrote:

As a proto scout since chromosome.

This thread is a joke.

It's a self serving BS move by people who are highly skilled into other frames. This thread is nothing more than an abuse of the CPM designation to represent the game before their own interests to progress and better the game we all sandbox in.

CPM is corrupt.

As a proto scout since the true Uprising 1.0 (The first one, that ran from Dec 2011 until may 2012)....

Your post is uninformed.

I would love nothing more than to be a badass stealthy assassin with my knives wielding a cloak to terrorize my victims. I just recognize that what suits myself and my own desires are not always what equal a fun and fair experience for everyone or healthy for the game as a whole.

While the scouts should be the most adept at using cloaks... I think it's really crappy to shoehorn them into a role that relies on an OP mechanic in order to make them useful again. Scouts need more than that to be fun. Cloaks as proposed by CCP are -not- the answer to the ever-present question of "How do we make scout suits not suck?"

This is a battle that needs to be fought elsewhere, with other solutions. (IMO)

Then mobilise the CPM to advocate for the improvement of scouts, not just the destruction of cloaks.

If you continue to advocate for the destruction of cloaks without working to change how they are implemented for scouts, it will destroy the viability of the class.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=135730&find=unread

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
DeathwindRising ROGUE SPADES 197	Posted - 2014.01.14 01:40:00 - [361] - Quote goerf wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Dear CCP and the Community of Dust 514, I would like it to be made publicly and clearly known that the CPM does not support the ability to fire a weapon while cloaked. If you support this (and even if you don't) I encourage you to post your thoughts so that CCP can hear our voices and change the course away from what would be a game-breaking mechanic. The devil is always in the details, but I think we can all agree that firing while cloaking is a line in the sand that CCP must not cross. /signed Kain Spero of CPM 0 Agreed To use a weapon you must de-cloak it seems logical You get unseen movement - how big an advantage does a scout need? then scouts need a reduced delay, or no delay to recloaking
Kushmir Nadian Valor Coalition 344	Posted - 2014.01.14 02:10:00 - [362] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: [quote=Brokerib] Neither you, nor anyone else calling for a nerf, has been able to provide solid reasoning for why firing from cloak is so bad that it should be considered broken, or breaks the game. Until you provide actual reasoning for it, its not a fact, it's your opinion. . I'll jump in here and try to break this down, then. The CPM is unanimous that cloaks as currently described are poor for balance and the overall health of the game. What constitutes fair balance, though? Should everything have the exact same stats and be able to kill everything equally? Not at all. In this instance... "Fair" in an FPS game constitutes a player having the ability of being aware how they died, and being able to learn and adapt so as not to die the same way again. Knowing who killed them and how is an important tool, as well is knowing how they could've avoided it. In the case of someone sneaking up behind someone, they are taking advantage of their own situational awareness while using the lack thereof in their victim. The victim can then take from that death "Maybe I should've been looking around more as I ran along the map" In this sense, melee and 'stealth' builds are completely fair, as a friendly teammate spotting or just better situational awareness can prevent all but the sneakiest of sneakers. In regards to the hot button point of firing while cloaked : There is nothing wrong with being able to fire on an unaware enemy. To say otherwise might as well be saying everyone should be on their enemies' maps all the time because "stealth is OP" (lol) However, (IMO) fairness dictates that anyone about to take an offensive position should also be vulnerable to counterattack at that same time. The cloak somewhat (though not completely) invalidates this point, as it provides a measure of safety both before (and after, if activated after firing rather than before) that prevents this opportunity except in the rarest of cases. It is the CPM's position that cloaks should be a tool used to escape, evade, and outmaneuver an enemy force, rather than a tool to be used actively in combat. We feel that this style of cloaking would maintain or even improve the pace of the game, and go a long way towards eliminating redline situations. Building on that last point, brings me to the second point of dispute among the CPM (Not unanimously agreed) The shimmer effect should only be present or "super visible" when one is sprinting. To do otherwise (Killzone 3 cloaking) only encourages campy, slow-paced playstyles as those are the only ways to use a cloak to maximum effect. This would result in cloaked players generally hovering around single objectives or spawn points, waiting for something to do instead of encouraging cloaked players to be highly mobile gameplay drivers who give OTHER players something to do. I will happily discuss any of these points with anyone who feels they have a reasonable argument against them. For added reference, I will paste the following from an internal CPM thread regarding my own views on the overal goals and "Should/ Should nots" of cloaks. [quote] Basic goal of cloaks should ultimately be to escape, evade, or maneuver into superior position. They should not be a direct tool to be used in active combat, but rather one of mobility. To achieve this, the cloaks should [list] Be an equipment that must be held in one's hands to remain active Have a very audible and recognizable sound when first engaged and when disengaged Have a minimum 20 second cooldown that begins upon deactivation (Increased duration if forcibly decloaked by enemy fire or otherwise taking damage) No maximum active duration Affect speed. Non-Scout suits should move at roughly a 25% decrease to speed. Create very small, yet visible distortion around the cloaked player (not a perfect 'human' outline). Only amplifies to become super visible when sprinting Be directly countered by scanners depending on range and precision. Assuming equal values, at short (30m or less) range the scanner should beat the cloak. At long ranges the cloak should beat the scan. Disable Melee, or carry a steep (minimum 90%) penalty to melee damage while carried. When used on an air vehicle, all weapons and other modules should be disabled and prevented from being activated for the duration of the cloak and for an additional (minimum 15s) timer afterwards. (Higher tiers of cloaks can reduce delay) When used on an air vehicle, flying below a certain altitude should immediately decloak the vehicle. Provide points to a cloaked player if they evade a scan, conversely provide points to a scanner if they reveal a cloaked player to their team. (Scanned players should not be decloaked, but highlighted visually with a much greater distortion than usual which would be visible to players on both teams) [quote] This is quite simply the most thorough explanation i've ever seen on a gaming message board--I feel smarter for having read it. Even moreso, because this is a topic many feel needs no explanation. You sir, are easily my favorite CPM. Hopefully you're running again as we need this kind of representation on our highest Dust body. BRAVO. Not a bitter vet, but i'll be back when we have 10 game modes, jets, all racial suits/wpns and EVE has a reason to care.
The Robot Devil molon labe. Public Disorder. 1549	Posted - 2014.01.14 02:14:00 - [363] - Quote MassiveNine wrote: So what about hacking while cloaked? I think it should be allowed. I mean if someone is at a letter and it starts getting hacked any decent player would know to huck a nade or start firing at the hack screen. Any action other than jumping should decloak you. GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride." Hunter S. Thompson
SILENTSAM 69 SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION 614	Posted - 2014.01.14 03:12:00 - [364] - Quote It is a lot of crying over nothing. Allow a kill or tow while cloaked. It sounds great that CCP will do this, and not make it the same boring old cloak that most shooters use. Considering all the balancing factors it sounds great to give the cloaked person an couple of actions before decloaking. I especially like the idea of throwing down a grenade while invisible near a group. Active scanners will find them, our cross hairs will still find them. and when they move they will be kinda visible. There is so much balancing the cloaking unit tat only the Scout will use it to the best of its ability, and they need something with how under powered they are. I would love to see a bunch of people start using this, and I would love to see the tactics people use against it. It also finally give a reason to use something beyond the basic scanner. That proto scanner will finally matter,
SILENTSAM 69 SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION 614	Posted - 2014.01.14 03:15:00 - [365] - Quote People are just having kneee jerk reactions, and not really considering everything from an objective stand point. Too many people are either thinking of how it will help them, or how it will hurt them. Well there is a lot more to think about than yourself. I can not wait to see how it affects entire battles. I love the idea of being able to use Scouts to infiltrate effectively. Without some idea of the numbers, we are just blowing a lot of smoke. We need to know how long the cloak will work for, and how much time is taken off for actions.
SILENTSAM 69 SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION 614	Posted - 2014.01.14 03:21:00 - [366] - Quote Also, correct me if I am wrong, but even if a scan does not pick up a cloaked Scout, you will still know the scan failed to find someone, and to be on the look out for your cross hair going red with no one seemingly there. You would also be on the look out for the shimmer, or whatever they use to show a moving cloaked character. There are ways to deal with it. If you fear a cloaked player around a corner, make wide corners. Throw random grenades into a room you do not trust. One thing I am not clear on, does shooting a cloaked player make them suddenly visible? If so, random spraying would be a great way to 'look around' for cloaked players. The cloak sounds good, and everyone who is over concerned needs to calm down. This include the CPM members against it. Well, mainly them.
SILENTSAM 69 SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION 614	Posted - 2014.01.14 04:24:00 - [367] - Quote Reading the more logical concerns, mainly from Nova Knife, I like how he wants someone to be able to be vulnerable to counter attack while being offensive. Besides the fact that I do not find the cloak itself that invisible, shimmers are always quite noticeable, and cross hairs going red helps a lot, I would say that I do like the idea of being vulnerable. Maybe something could be done to balance things. Maybe a persons shields have to be down while cloaked, and the moment their cloak comes off their shields start charging. Meaning firing on an invisible target will be much easier to kill, and the moment the person first comes out and starts firing, they would be at a disadvantage. This might encourage decloaking while hidden.
DISGRUNTLEDev Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 288	Posted - 2014.01.14 05:52:00 - [368] - Quote What is the purpose of the decloak sound? It's seems like this would defeat the reason to sneak behind someone. Especially if I have to make an awkward loud noise behind a heavy, hang out for a couple seconds, and the proceed to hit him 2 or 3 times with charged nova knives... With ~300 health... Yeah...
mollerz Minja Scouts 1848	Posted - 2014.01.14 06:45:00 - [369] - Quote As a proto scout since chromosome. This thread is a joke. It's a self serving BS move by people who are highly skilled into other frames. This thread is nothing more than an abuse of the CPM designation to represent the game before their own interests to progress and better the game we all sandbox in. CPM is corrupt. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 803	Posted - 2014.01.14 06:55:00 - [370] - Quote Garbage thread. If all we are trying to do is to keep scouts gimp and keep medium + auto rifle 514 going strong then yes, by all means. Oh, sht! I just learned you can make a signature! Thanks, CCP! Forums are getting better!

Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 1032	Posted - 2014.01.14 07:01:00 - [371] - Quote I kind of get that feeling too... this might be a case of CPM being scared of a mechanic before even being able to test it. I think you need to consider the changed (increased) infantry TTK, which hopefully comes in 1.8, together with the cloak before even discussing if its OP or UP. The current TTK is the main issue from many viewpoints of the game TBH, not cloaking modules (since we know little about them really). Doesnt matter in Dust 514: PC. FW Standing. Tanking Type. Other mods than DMG or HP. Does matter in Dust 514: Rifles.
Oswald Rehnquist 1091	Posted - 2014.01.14 07:07:00 - [372] - Quote Considering the recent posts by CCP Remnant which was an inquiry on a potential new cal bonus (which was a reduction to firing cost while cloaked), I believe this might be indicative that they are looking to make not shooting from cloak a feature. Below 28 dB
Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6425	Posted - 2014.01.14 07:10:00 - [373] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: I'm starting to have another round of second thoughts on the cloak. Now I'm not sure how it should be implemented in regards to how cloak should be held. Man, I'm becoming more of a flip flop than Sen. John Kerry. Danger! Danger! Flip-Flop level "John Kerry" now passed! Aporaching "Mitt Romney" levels! Danger! Danger! I'm scared. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 805	Posted - 2014.01.14 07:26:00 - [374] - Quote Is it just me or CPM never communicates with other players except to push some of their own rotten agenda? When was the time they last posted some normal communication as opposed to trolling? It's even funnier seeing how this thread comes from CPM that don't even play the game anymore. Vote for Pedro! Oh, sht! I just learned you can make a signature! Thanks, CCP! Forums are getting better!
Shion Typhon Intara Direct Action Caldari State 361	Posted - 2014.01.14 08:01:00 - [375] - Quote Brokerib wrote: Thanks you Nova and IWS for the posts, they are both informative and explain the CPMs position. That said, I don't 100% agree with you, but that's to be expected as I have a vested interest in protecting the scout. Instead of theorising why not actually try out a cloak in practice? I guarantee you will have a much better understanding of combat under cloak once you have done so. The Planetside 2 cloak is almost identical to what the CPM are proposing and it is neither weak nor unfun, au contraire, playing a CQC PS2 Infiltrator is immense fun and highly effective. It can be used for defense and offense and is one of the more balanced cloaks in FPSs. The decloaking delay, the noise, the recharge, everything is there and they give your opponent a fighting chance while still allowing you to get up to endless shenanigans and hilarious terror tactics. Go download it, put some skill points into cloak and go mental on an Infiltrator for a few hours. Then you'll understand that nothing the CPM is proposing is inappropriate.
ChromeBreaker SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1501	Posted - 2014.01.14 08:11:00 - [376] - Quote Get the damn cloak in game! i dont know what will be OP or not! balance it as best you can but be very prepared for changes The answer is "ForgeGun"... doesnt matter what the question is...
DeeJay One Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 191	Posted - 2014.01.14 08:22:00 - [377] - Quote ChromeBreaker wrote: Get the damn cloak in game! i dont know what will be OP or not! balance it as best you can but be very prepared for changes That's exactly what this thread is trying to accomplish.
Kasira Vorrikesh Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 50	Posted - 2014.01.14 08:45:00 - [378] - Quote I've said this once before, and I'm sure none of it'll be implemented, but this is the only kind of cloaking I want to see: Passive cloaking fully integrated into scout suits only. Cloaking device takes no slots or CPU/PG (those stats stay the same on cloak-scout suits, finally giving a good reason for being so low). Cloaking is always-on. Deactivates when user fires or is hit by enemy fire; reactivation delay is dictated by (skill X). Full movement speed is possible with scout-cloak; shimmer level dictated by speed (for scouts, running produces very little shimmer; only sprinting would make you really noticeable, but still not fully visible). Slow walking/ very slow movement keeps you totally invisible, as does being stationary. Being cloaked and stationary makes scouts completely immune to all scanning; any movement will re-apply the usual profile rules (scout-cloak offers no bonuses to profile reduction besides the stationary one). Flux grenades disable cloaking for a long time (30 secs maybe). Everyone else can fit a cloak as a piece of equipment that must be manually activated, has longer fade times than scout-cloak, and is completely deactivated by running/sprinting and firing/being hit. It shimmers during walking/creeping, and is only totally invisible while stationary. Non-scout cloak offers small reduction to profile for stationary users. As an aside to all this: the idea of a scout having to equip/manually "fire" a cloak seems horribly annoying to me. Stealth should be fluid, second-nature, to the scout.
dzizur Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 24	Posted - 2014.01.14 10:04:00 - [379] - Quote @CPM, the old saying that everyone loves so much - HTFU so now that ccp figured out how to move snipers from the redline onto the battlefield you guys want to nerf that possibility into the ground? (not to mention it's not out yet) great job! i don't have anything against logis running with stealth, they're stealth skills suck anyways so whats the problem? they'll be teared to shreds by scouts. now that i've seen all the qq about cloaks and pretty much everything scout I understand why ccp is always so late with the info. hell even some of the scouts are bitching now about getting the second eq slot for a sidearm. don't get me wrong, i get it that some people got used to their "double [insert here]" fits, but c'mon. I though that the scouts are a frame best at adapting, now it seems that it's best at bitching and being lazy. and remember kids, if you want dual smg, just use your damn black eagle suit.
Nova Knife Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 2253	Posted - 2014.01.14 11:05:00 - [380] - Quote mollerz wrote: As a proto scout since chromosome. This thread is a joke. It's a self serving BS move by people who are highly skilled into other frames. This thread is nothing more than an abuse of the CPM designation to represent the game before their own interests to progress and better the game we all sandbox in. CPM is corrupt. As a proto scout since the true Uprising 1.0 (The first one, that ran from Dec 2011 until may 2012).... Your post is uninformed. I would love nothing more than to be a badass stealthy assassin with my knives wielding a cloak to terrorize my victims. I just recognize that what suits myself and my own desires are not always what equal a fun and fair experience for everyone or healthy for the game as a whole. While the scouts should be the most adept at using cloaks... I think it's really crappy to shoehorn them into a role that relies on an OP mechanic in order to make them useful again. Scouts need more than that to be fun. Cloaks as proposed by CCP are -not- the answer to the ever-present question of "How do we make scout suits not suck?" This is a battle that needs to be fought elsewhere, with other solutions. (IMO)

Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 251	Posted - 2014.01.14 11:16:00 - [381] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: mollerz wrote: As a proto scout since chromosome. This thread is a joke. It's a self serving BS move by people who are highly skilled into other frames. This thread is nothing more than an abuse of the CPM designation to represent the game before their own interests to progress and better the game we all sandbox in. CPM is corrupt. As a proto scout since the true Uprising 1.0 (The first one, that ran from Dec 2011 until may 2012).... Your post is uninformed. I would love nothing more than to be a badass stealthy assassin with my knives wielding a cloak to terrorize my victims. I just recognize that what suits myself and my own desires are not always what equal a fun and fair experience for everyone or healthy for the game as a whole. While the scouts should be the most adept at using cloaks... I think it's really crappy to shoehorn them into a role that relies on an OP mechanic in order to make them useful again. Scouts need more than that to be fun. Cloaks as proposed by CCP are -not- the answer to the ever-present question of "How do we make scout suits not suck?" This is a battle that needs to be fought elsewhere, with other solutions. (IMO) Then mobilise the CPM to advocate for the improvement of scouts, not just the destruction of cloaks. If you continue to advocate for the destruction of cloaks without working to change how they are implemented for scouts, it will destroy the viability of the class. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=135730&find=unread
The Robot Devil molon labe. Public Disorder. 1550	Posted - 2014.01.14 11:20:00 - [382] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Whether or not the cloak has to be held the whole time it's active I don't know. As long as you can't shoot at the same time you are cloaked is my main sticking point. I think it should be turned on and should stay on until the player or something else decloaks you. GÇ£No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride." Hunter S. Thompson
Faquira Bleuetta 0uter.Heaven 159	Posted - 2014.01.14 12:26:00 - [383] - Quote If there's something strange in your neighborhood Who you gonna QQ nerf? CCP! If there's something weird and it don't look good Who you gonna QQ nerf? CCP! I ain't afraid of no ghost I ain't afraid of no ghost If you're seeing things running through your head Who you gonna QQ nerf? CCP! An invisible man sleeping in your bed holy sheit, Who you gonna QQ nerf? CCP! I ain't afraid of no ghost I ain't afraid of no ghost Who you gonna QQ nerf? CCP! If you're all alone, go to forum And QQ nerf thread CCP! I ain't afraid of no ghost I hear it likes the girls I ain't afraid of no ghost Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Who you gonna QQ nerf? CCP! If you've had a dose of a freaky ghost You'd better QQ nerf CCP! Let me tell you something Bustin' makes me feel good I ain't afraid of no ghost I ain't afraid of no ghost Don't get caught alone, oh no CCP! When it comes through your door Unless you just want some more I think you better QQ nerf CCP! Ow! Who you gonna QQ nerf CCP!!
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2624	Posted - 2014.01.14 14:04:00 - [384] - Quote Brokerib wrote: Nova Knife wrote: mollerz wrote: As a proto scout since chromosome. This thread is a joke. It's a self serving BS move by people who are highly skilled into other frames. This thread is nothing more than an abuse of the CPM designation to represent the game before their own interests to progress and better the game we all sandbox in. CPM is corrupt. As a proto scout since the true Uprising 1.0 (The first one, that ran from Dec 2011 until may 2012).... Your post is uninformed. I would love nothing more than to be a badass stealthy assassin with my knives wielding a cloak to terrorize my victims. I just recognize that what suits myself and my own desires are not always what equal a fun and fair experience for everyone or healthy for the game as a whole. While the scouts should be the most adept at using cloaks... I think it's really crappy to shoehorn them into a role that relies on an OP mechanic in order to make them useful again. Scouts need more than that to be fun. Cloaks as proposed by CCP are -not- the answer to the ever-present question of "How do we make scout suits not suck?" This is a battle that needs to be fought elsewhere, with other solutions. (IMO) Then mobilise the CPM to advocate for the improvement of scouts, not just the destruction of cloaks. If you continue to advocate for the destruction of cloaks without working to change how they are implemented for scouts, it will destroy the viability of the class. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=135730&find=unread If you think the CPM hasn't been advocating for improvements to the scout you are obviously misinformed. Again I think the scouts need bonuses that aren't tied to cloaks (or they have cloak and additional bonuses). The scout needs to be a good frame in its own right and not just because of a cloak. I know the other CPM have specific points about cloaks, but my only thing is a player not being able to shoot while cloaked. Plus, I agree that if you decloak before firing then going from cloaked to an action should be fluid. Again if you think that this is somehow an attack on scouts you need to look beyond your own role and also realize that if bad mechanics lay at the feet of the cloak it's going to be an issue with all of the suits not just the scout. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 640	Posted - 2014.01.14 14:56:00 - [385] - Quote Kain, as I advised IWS a unified approach would have been better with the CPM or at least three to four of you putting out a single thread with the main points you would like to see regarding the cloak plus also what the forum expected. Credit to you, yours was just a single point to balance a mechanic but then we had IWS with his full on cloak cant do anything and CCP stating that Scouts would have to lose to gain. It all got hectic. If CPM is to be the go between then they should act like it and CCP needs to do a way better job then just tagging threads and sprinkling info. They should author at least two threads - cloak and its mechanics, - scouts and state what they want to do and then have Sabrewing of someone else monitor them and buzz the other devs for clarification or when their is consensus on a point. In your blind spot No Quid Pro Quo Line in the Sand
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 126	Posted - 2014.01.14 18:57:00 - [386] - Quote i dont see how harder to see light weight suits could ever be a problem, you only have to cast an evil look to kill them and when they kill you how often do you see them anyway? the only problem will be if logis, assaults and commandos can use the cloak better
DeeJay One Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 191	Posted - 2014.01.14 19:25:00 - [387] - Quote Monty Mole Clone wrote: the only problem will be if logis, assaults and commandos can use the cloak better Judging from the proposed suit bonuses that could be the case (at least that's how I see it).
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 126	Posted - 2014.01.14 19:48:00 - [388] - Quote DeeJay One wrote: Monty Mole Clone wrote: the only problem will be if logis, assaults and commandos can use the cloak better Judging from the proposed suit bonuses that could be the case (at least that's how I see it). just had a quick look at an all std assault ak.0 with specialist scram rifle, if i can get a cloak on this i will be dissapointed 3x basic shield extenders 3x basic plate viz spec scram rifle breach scram pistol nade possible cloak ? 298 shields 505 armour 253 cpu left 64 pg left
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 811	Posted - 2014.01.14 23:01:00 - [389] - Quote Nova Knife wrote: mollerz wrote: As a proto scout since chromosome. This thread is a joke. It's a self serving BS move by people who are highly skilled into other frames. This thread is nothing more than an abuse of the CPM designation to represent the game before their own interests to progress and better the game we all sandbox in. CPM is corrupt. As a proto scout since the true Uprising 1.0 (The first one, that ran from Dec 2011 until may 2012).... Your post is uninformed. I would love nothing more than to be a badass stealthy assassin with my knives wielding a cloak to terrorize my victims. I just recognize that what suits myself and my own desires are not always what equal a fun and fair experience for everyone or healthy for the game as a whole. While the scouts should be the most adept at using cloaks... I think it's really crappy to shoehorn them into a role that relies on an OP mechanic in order to make them useful again. Scouts need more than that to be fun. Cloaks as proposed by CCP are -not- the answer to the ever-present question of "How do we make scout suits not suck?" This is a battle that needs to be fought elsewhere, with other solutions. (IMO) Your job is to communicate with the community and elicit feedback not to collect signatures to support your own requests. CPM abuses its power. None of you will or could ever be elected democratically. Oh, sht! I just learned you can make a signature! Thanks, CCP! Forums are getting better!
DeeJay One Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 191	Posted - 2014.01.15 07:41:00 - [390] - Quote Brokerib wrote: We also know that firing from cloak will result in you de-cloaking. We know that firing a sniper rifle will decloak you instantly, the rest is in the air...



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