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CPM: Petition to CCP Regarding Cloaks

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Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2470	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:04:00 - [31] - Quote R F Gyro wrote: If they give us the ability to fire while cloaked, then realise it is a mistake and try to take it away, there'll be hell to pay. If they initially don't allow cloaked shooting, then later decide to enable it (maybe in a limited fashion, such as with special weapon variants), things will be much easier. So I'm happy to support this. Totally spot on. Let cloaks land with a no fire limitation and then let's go from there. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 3	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:06:00 - [32] - Quote Righteous Rage wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Arx, no first shot while cloaked. Either switching to a weapon should decloak you or have it where you have to manually deactivate the cloak to fire a weapon. Any shots while cloaked deal feedback damage, or cause death. I would love to see more suicide in public areas This sounds like fun!
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2473	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:15:00 - [33] - Quote DISGRUNTLEDev wrote: F@k you Kain. Can scouts have any love? Seriously, it's been a year. You should start a petition about shotguns and Nova Knives too. Get F***ed. I'm not saying remove the cloak. My only concern with this petition is to not allow anyone to fire a weapon while cloaked. I have played with you often enough to know with the ability to move unseen you have the skills needed to wreak havock without having to cross the line of shooting while cloaked. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
pseudosnipre 485	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:19:00 - [34] - Quote CPM would rather focus on ability to fire while cloaked and NOT on the ease with which the new logi bonus will facilitate fitting of cloaks? Bravo. Also, cloaking is NOT going to benefit the highly talented scouts that still play the suit...they're already invisible to the mouth-breathing, tacnet-dependent masses. Today is the sort of day where the sun only comes up to humiliate you.
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 62	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:20:00 - [35] - Quote R F Gyro wrote: If they give us the ability to fire while cloaked, then realise it is a mistake and try to take it away, there'll be hell to pay. If they initially don't allow cloaked shooting, then later decide to enable it (maybe in a limited fashion, such as with special weapon variants), things will be much easier. So I'm happy to support this. This. At first I thought CCPs implementation might not be bad, but IF IT IS, it will be very difficult to change it later. Small steps, small steps.
Baltazar Pontain Phantom Universe Task Force Die Fremdenlegion 61	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:20:00 - [36] - Quote Can someone explain me why this topic is so hot discussed? Has CCP delivered some hard facts about cloacking I have missed? If not I suggest to cool down and wait until they have delivered. If yes, can someone post me the link?
kiarbanor S.e.V.e.N. General Tso's Alliance 269	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:21:00 - [37] - Quote CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote: if u are cloaked, u are just that... in stealth mode. being able to do anything aside from moving behind enemy lines undetected will simply cause headaches and issues that can be avoided by actually listening to people now should be just like an active scanner. Personally it should be an innate skill only in scouts, and I could even get on board with it being a part of the suit, not taking up a slot. same rules as a scanner.. has a cooldown period, and you can do nothing except run and jump (and climb) while its activated. As someone that loves running Scouts--even though I die by being looked at--and have been looking forward to this cloaking "thing," I can't justify being able to shoot while being cloaked. So, I'm on board with Spero. Also, Cubs, I agree with the way you're looking at this. My fear--as also being a ck.0 Logi user--is having the ability to simply sacrifice three pieces of equipment for two and carrying a cloak on my proto Logi. I would prefer for Scouts to be the only ones to use cloak, and for it not to take up their equipment slot. Maybe have it as a low slot, active module. But not as equipment.
mollerz Minja Scouts 1654	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:22:00 - [38] - Quote I wasn't for firing a weapon when cloaked, but you know what? After a year of knifing people with 5x or more EHP firing guns (SCP) that take me out in a blink.. let's see how this rolls. I'm certainly going to use it as an assassination tool. Sorry Med frames. You are going to have to tough it out. We'll come back in a year see how everything is fairing. I am sure you guys are going to be howling bloody murder. I can already see more petitions, QQ, snore snore. HTFU and git gud, guys You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
pseudosnipre 485	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:22:00 - [39] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: DISGRUNTLEDev wrote: F@k you Kain. Can scouts have any love? Seriously, it's been a year. You should start a petition about shotguns and Nova Knives too. Get F***ed. I'm not saying remove the cloak. My only concern with this petition is to not allow anyone to fire a weapon while cloaked. I have played with you often enough to know with the ability to move unseen you have the skills needed to wreak havock without having to cross the line of shooting while cloaked. Exactly, so why is this considered a scout-friendly addition to the game? Anybody with a scout suit will be able to do the same thing now... Today is the sort of day where the sun only comes up to humiliate you.
Aero Yassavi Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire 4595	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:22:00 - [40] - Quote Baltazar Pontain wrote: Can someone explain me why this topic is so hot discussed? Has CCP delivered some hard facts about cloacking I have missed? If not I suggest to cool down and wait until they have delivered. If yes, can someone post me the link? Actually, yes, they have CCP Remnant wrote: - The cloak field is a piece of equipment. - When selected the cortex is raised and you press fire to activate it. - Once activated, it goes away and your weapon is raised. You can switch to other weapons/equipment while cloaked. - You cloak. The amount of "shimmer" is increased as you move so standing still you will be nigh invisible, but when moving you will be noticeable to an extent. When cloaked, you obviously have no chevron or health bars, but the enemy reticule will flash red if you run past it. - Cloak can be deactivated by selecting it and pressing fire. - Once deactivated or it runs out it will start to recharge. - Firing a weapon while cloaked will rapidly deplete the cloak field (a single shot from a sniper rifle, for instance, will decloak you) - You can only fit one cloak field at a time. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=postmessage&t=134545&f=728&q=1699636 It's a bird! It's a plane! No, it's Super Amarr!

Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 258	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:22:00 - [41] - Quote I agree that, done poorly, a cloaking mechanic would be terrible for the game. However, we do not have all the numbers and we still have time to cause changes. Once we have the full statistics for the modules and how the mechanics operate, we will be able to generate actual, useful feedback. This thread is a kneejerk reaction, though not unwarranted. I support the notion that R F Gyro had: implement it with firing disallowed and bring in variants/introduce cloaked firing later. Baby steps.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1968	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:26:00 - [42] - Quote Define 'cloaked'. Because from what it sounds like, you will have a degree of cloakedness. If you start to shimmer the second your weapon fires, then are you cloaked? If you basically can only walk around with your cloak module in your hands as you are cloaked, or hold your gun and wait for the cloak to deactivate in order to fire then I'd say that is a disadvantage as well. I say we wait to see how the balance for shimmering works then we decide.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9824	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:26:00 - [43] - Quote You should only cloak while the device is in your hands. This encourages lowering your profile still, so that way you can sneak behind the enemy, decloak, murder them without showing up on radar, cloak, and leave. Assault Dropship Montage Incubus Pilot, AV Specialist, Fat Scout DUST addict
Surt gods end Demon Ronin 1523	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:28:00 - [44] - Quote pseudosnipre wrote: Kain Spero wrote: DISGRUNTLEDev wrote: F@k you Kain. Can scouts have any love? Seriously, it's been a year. You should start a petition about shotguns and Nova Knives too. Get F***ed. I'm not saying remove the cloak. My only concern with this petition is to not allow anyone to fire a weapon while cloaked. I have played with you often enough to know with the ability to move unseen you have the skills needed to wreak havock without having to cross the line of shooting while cloaked. Exactly, so why is this considered a scout-friendly addition to the game? Anybody with a scout suit will be able to do the same thing now... I hope kain.. that your vision of scouts or you IWS is not one where the Assassination description part is no longer there. Scouts were never just passive recon/hack. Not in any build. Despite all the crap we went through we never went passive. By the time you see us or we are close to shake your hand.. you were dead. that was it. Why now is this being discussed?
GET ATMESON Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 211	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:32:00 - [45] - Quote Why wasnt there more CPM post like this through out the year? Were you in hiding? Did you come back when elections are coming? Are you doing this so you can have people supporting you? What one is it :) 1.7 HMG hotfix works great. Now for more Heavy suits or guns soonGäó
mollerz Minja Scouts 1657	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:32:00 - [46] - Quote No matter what- we should be able to hold a weapon/equipment while cloaked. Holding what is tantamount to a cloaking lantern with both hands whilst traipsing through a battlefield is lame, and no advanced technological combat cloak wouldn't let you be hands free so you could hold a weapon, climb a ladder, etc. And wait a second... Does Kain even play scout? If not.. sorry man. This is just QQ wrapped up in a med frame blanket petition. Downvote to this CPM in an election, scouts. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Hyborean Strain Immortal Guides 19	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:33:00 - [47] - Quote Cloaks should come pre-nerfed, definitely. As an earlier poster said, if they give people an "I WIN" button like the ability to fire while cloaked and later take it away, for any reason; people will shriek like you won't believe. Avoid the firestorm, CCP.
pseudosnipre 485	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:37:00 - [48] - Quote Hyborean Strain wrote: Cloaks should come pre-nerfed, definitely. As an earlier poster said, if they give people an "I WIN" button like the ability to fire while cloaked and later take it away, for any reason; people will shriek like you won't believe. Avoid the firestorm, CCP. Kind of like if they gave logi suits a passive repair bonus and then took it away...? Today is the sort of day where the sun only comes up to humiliate you.
devonus durga P.L.A.N. B 6	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:38:00 - [49] - Quote I think our time would be better spent petitioning crap that's already in the game and broken, instead of something we don't know anything about, isn't in the game, and may not be for awhile. Petition to protest pointless petitions: Devonus Durga
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2477	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:38:00 - [50] - Quote pseudosnipre wrote: CPM would rather focus on ability to fire while cloaked and NOT on the ease with which the new logi bonus will facilitate fitting of cloaks? Bravo. Also, cloaking is NOT going to benefit the highly talented scouts that still play the suit...they're already invisible to the mouth-breathing, tacnet-dependent masses. How easy a cloak is to fit is one of the devils in the details of the stats of the cloak itself and what the suits bonuses actually end up at. Whether or not you can fire while cloaked is a high level aspect of the cloak field's design that needs to be nipped in the bud. That doesn't mean there aren't other issues (can you use equipment while cloaked, can other suits fit a cloak, etc) that don't need to be address. With the specific stats still an unknown, I think the firing while cloaked issues is something that can be openly discussed among the community and it can be an issues where we can make ourselves heard loud and clear without having to worry about the ambiguity that unfinalized suit bonuses and stats brings. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news

Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1515	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:43:00 - [51] - Quote Telcontar Dunedain wrote: This game is bad and hasn't improved in the six months since I stopped playing. You should all feel bad for still playing this game. lolaimbot514 You haven't played for six months ... well then how do you know it hasn't improved? And even more important: Why are you still here? Sign up for Caldari FW and defeat the evil Gallente Overlords!
xSynnx x Requiem of Shadows 43	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:46:00 - [52] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: For those of you who don't know, most cloaks in EVE operate like this: Movement Speed Reduced by 90% Unable to use any weapons or modules while cloaked Any ship within 2500m will decloak your ship There is a delay after you decloak before you can lock on and use modules. Most? There are only 2 types of cloaks in Eve, so at best you can say Half of the cloaks work that way.
Alex Desmond Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 12	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:46:00 - [53] - Quote Perhaps if your cloak became partial or jammed when you come close to an enemy. This way, you won't randomly be shotgunned or nova knifed out of nowhere. You could also incorporate a "Cloak Strength" bar which determines how cloaked you are depending on proximity, scanning, firing and possible movements like jumping. With this you'd have to be careful with your cloak. (maybe some new modules can help this or work against it) "Scan Attempt Prevented"... Music to my ears.
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2477	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:49:00 - [54] - Quote mollerz wrote: No matter what- we should be able to hold a weapon/equipment while cloaked. Holding what is tantamount to a cloaking lantern with both hands whilst traipsing through a battlefield is lame, and no advanced technological combat cloak wouldn't let you be hands free so you could hold a weapon, climb a ladder, etc. And wait a second... Does Kain even play scout? If not.. sorry man. This is just QQ wrapped up in a med frame blanket petition. Downvote to this CPM in an election, scouts. Actually, I agree that scouts have been in a bad place. The CPM has discussed with CCP as well that the scout should be a viable role even when a cloak isn't used. Sure scouts can use a cloak better if you look at the bonuses on SiSi, but they need to be effective in their own right as well. I have not put the hours into a scout that the experts have, but from my experience the scout is one of the most challenging and at the same time exhilarating roles in the game. I don't think the improvements to scouts should stop with a cloak. I really feel they should be the information specialists on the field as well. I just want it to be clear that shooting while cloaked shouldn't be a thing and if based on that premise further adjustments need to be made to the scout role them I'm all for it. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Sentient Archon 1379	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:49:00 - [55] - Quote Why would CCP do such a thing when even in Eve you have to decloak before you pew pew? The only troll to successfully troll CCP.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9826	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:52:00 - [56] - Quote If you can shoot while cloaked, it should bump you out of cloak on the very first shot, and it should double your cooldown timer to go back into cloak. This allows for a single surprise attack, leaving the scout vulnerable if he overextends. Honestly, it's not much different than just holding the cloak, and would offer incentive to decloak first, since you could cloak that much faster. Assault Dropship Montage Incubus Pilot, AV Specialist, Fat Scout DUST addict
Pseudogenesis Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 91	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:53:00 - [57] - Quote I'm in favor of this, but I'm also in favor of being able to swing knives while cloaked.
Knight Soiaire BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 4328	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:53:00 - [58] - Quote Equipment should be available while cloaked, if we get 2 EQ slots I should be able to drop EQ, but it should drain the Cloak. Also, I love how the first ever CPM Petition I've seen involves pre-nerfing an EQ that is being specifically made to buff Scouts. Can the Scout get any love? Provider of Vanilla Scented Soap Bars
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2482	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:54:00 - [59] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: I agree that, done poorly, a cloaking mechanic would be terrible for the game. However, we do not have all the numbers and we still have time to cause changes. Once we have the full statistics for the modules and how the mechanics operate, we will be able to generate actual, useful feedback. This thread is a kneejerk reaction, though not unwarranted. I support the notion that R F Gyro had: implement it with firing disallowed and bring in variants/introduce cloaked firing later. Baby steps. There is no kneejerk here. It's just that with how the cloaks function being publicly posted we can talk about this openly with you all since it was previous in NDA hell. The CPM has been adamant that you should not be able to fire while cloaked from the very first time the issue of cloaks was brought up. I agree that R F Gyro's position nails it on the head. Implement with firing disallowed. We can then see the gameplay impact and thoughtfully discuss future baby steps of iteration. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
sammus420 Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 358	Posted - 2014.01.09 20:54:00 - [60] - Quote Can we at least try it out before we get all wound up about it?



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