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Surt gods end
Demon Ronin
1521
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Posted - 2014.01.09 19:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
I liked KZ3 but I also like KZ4 approach to not letting cloaked scout shoot. instead that "assassination tool" is in the form of a OHK knife. Then let cloaked scout have be able to KNIFE.
CLOAKING IS USED IN A MAJORITY OF FPS AS A ASSASSINATION TOOL. Look at the description of scout and find the word.
If your saying there is no place in dust for OHK, then that a whole other avenue. Along with then a no place for ASSASSIN. Scouts by description tho are not just recon, but assassins. like in any other fps.
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Surt gods end
Demon Ronin
1523
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Posted - 2014.01.09 20:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
pseudosnipre wrote:Kain Spero wrote:DISGRUNTLEDev wrote:F@k you Kain. Can scouts have any love? Seriously, it's been a year. You should start a petition about shotguns and Nova Knives too. Get F***ed. I'm not saying remove the cloak. My only concern with this petition is to not allow anyone to fire a weapon while cloaked. I have played with you often enough to know with the ability to move unseen you have the skills needed to wreak havock without having to cross the line of shooting while cloaked. Exactly, so why is this considered a scout-friendly addition to the game? Anybody with a scout suit will be able to do the same thing now...
I hope kain.. that your vision of scouts or you IWS is not one where the Assassination description part is no longer there. Scouts were never just passive recon/hack. Not in any build. Despite all the crap we went through we never went passive.
By the time you see us or we are close to shake your hand.. you were dead. that was it. Why now is this being discussed? |
Surt gods end
Demon Ronin
1524
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Posted - 2014.01.09 22:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mordecai Sanguine wrote:CPM i hope you will read this post. This is from someone that KNOW what is a cloaking in video games. - Borderlands 2 - Killzone 3 -Fallout 3 and others....
Be able to make ANYTHING that can lead to the ennemy death while cloaked will make it totally OP.
First ! cloak is a scout device. NOT an assassin device. Learn the diffrence and try to explain it to CCP please.
Scout is meant to grab information about the ennemy and destroy or trap the ennemy intel. And get the objectives while Heavier units in combat suit cover them. So here's :
1 : People must not be able to have their weapon while cloaked they must hold the device in their hand to stay cloaked. 2 : To be able to shoot they must swap weapons (Will make a sound like a flux grenade) OR they can turn it off manually to be quiet. 3 : You can't use any equipements while cloaked and 2sec after the cloak is disabled. 4- After you disabled your cloak (for any reason) everyone can see you on their passive scanners for 1 sec in a radius of 5 meters (avoid shotgun/ Nova knives assassination). 5- Anybody that hurt you disable your cloak (Careful to explosives and lfux) 6- Nobody else than Light Dropsuit (Scouts) must be able to use cloak device. Because it will be a "must have" item and will simply RUIN the game and making it a "crysis" like. And it SUCKS. No assault / heavy / logi must be able to be cloaked it must be a scout exclusive.
That was for the drawbacks it NEED to be implemented or it will be Cloak514 for everyone.
Now the advantages than nobody talk about and could be implemented to be REALLY useful for the team :
1 : Be cloaked reduce your scanned profile (Db) per 2. You have 36Db ? Now it's 18 while cloaked. Even a focused scanner will have difficulties to scan a cloaked scout.
2 : Walking on ANY equipements in a radisu of 2 meters (hives/remote/uplinks) will destroy them WITHOUT disabled the cloak or any penality. Now you can cut all the ennemy intel without being spoted. And you can defuse all the remote trap on the objectives easily. You're FREAKING USEFUL.
3 : Being cloaked increase your hack speed about 25%, you can hack without disable the cloak. Capture objectives and installation are EASIER and you can escape cloaked before the ennemy has comes to you. Cloak => Run => Hack => Run away : Less than 30sec.
4 : Everybody in the radius of your passive scanner (16m) and which is detected normally now appears in the scanners of ALL YOUR TEAMATES for 5 sec. Rush into them to spot them all. (but carefully !)
5 : If you crouch even if the ennemy is aiming you while cloaked their aim will not tilt "red".
Really? Those underline games don't support your "cloak is not assasin" Cause reason being in FPS games... they are. be it resistance, to PS2, to KZ2, KZ3, KZ4. Scout are not passive. This isn't dota. |
Surt gods end
Demon Ronin
1527
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Posted - 2014.01.09 22:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'm down anything done with cloak that is NOT pushing the scout to just RECON. We didn't get names like "GHOSTS, NINJA COWBOYS, OR WRAITHS, cause we knew how to talk on a mic.
I wouldn't want scouts becoming the FOTM. And willing to lean back and see about cloaks. But anything that pushes assassination to the back seat is a no-no. |
Surt gods end
Demon Ronin
1529
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Posted - 2014.01.09 22:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:All I have to say the delay between decloak and shooting for scouts better be short as hell. Like, insanely short. I can get within 3m of an enemy without a cloak, fire, and have him turn around and kill me. If I have to decloak with a loud ass noise, wait a second, then fire you will have more scout deaths than before because it will hinder more than it will help.
This will be even more worthless since Minjas will be the least stealthy and shittiest with cloaks.
I'm okay with having to decloak to fire but it needs to be able to happen fluidly, fast, and natural. The more cumbersome this mechanic is for scouts the more you will be hurting the class.
Aye brother. To give them a chance to counter a assassination attempt defeats the purpose of that scout getting up close to you to whisper "turn around" in the first place. |
Surt gods end
Demon Ronin
1548
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Posted - 2014.01.10 23:55:00 -
[6] - Quote
Then make it so that first shot cancels the cloak. not mutiple shots. First shot from any gun cancels the cloak. it's not rocket science.
But if you have to switch cloak off to kill, then it MUST BE INSTANTANEOUS. Other wise you negate the assassination. And there is NO counter in any FPS game for that. Nor should there be. That's the reward for the scout to be able to get within breathing space of you to smell a fart. |
Surt gods end
Demon Ronin
1551
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Posted - 2014.01.11 01:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:Surt gods end wrote:Then make it so that first shot cancels the cloak. not mutiple shots. First shot from any gun cancels the cloak. it's not rocket science.
But if you have to switch cloak off to kill, then it MUST BE INSTANTANEOUS. Other wise you negate the assassination. And there is NO counter in any FPS game for that. Nor should there be. That's the reward for the scout to be able to get within breathing space of you to smell a fart. Except then you have first shots from cloaked Thales and invisible shotguns in the corners.In regards to switching off the cloak to kill, my only line in the sand regarding that is that the killing part doesn't occur at the same time as being cloaked.
A first shot from a SNIPER will kill you before you see him. Same with close up blast from the back from a shotty. Those things are here now kain.
But as seeing at how KZ3 went into KZ4 with cloaking, I'm willing to compromise with the deactivating cloak only as long as it does not turn into a "counter" for the assassination. I also don't see anything wrong with making nova knives being the only weapon you can use while cloaked, and deactivated after use.
Come one ccp, don't be embarrassed to copy. |
Surt gods end
Demon Ronin
1552
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Posted - 2014.01.11 02:05:00 -
[8] - Quote
Shion Typhon wrote:Surt gods end wrote:Then make it so that first shot cancels the cloak. not mutiple shots. First shot from any gun cancels the cloak. it's not rocket science.
But if you have to switch cloak off to kill, then it MUST BE INSTANTANEOUS. Other wise you negate the assassination. And there is NO counter in any FPS game for that. Nor should there be. That's the reward for the scout to be able to get within breathing space of you to smell a fart. I really seriously recommend going and playing an Infiltrator in Planetside 2 where you need to manually disable cloaks before firing. The shenanigans you can accomplish are amazing, you don't need to fire while cloaked. The VAST majority of PVP games that allow cloaked alpha strikes, suck balls. If you don't know this you haven't played enough other games.
Ask any MMO player what they think about cloaked damage.
Well this. I only play FPS games (and horror games) which is where I'm coming from as regards to cloaking. No matter how you slice it, Dust is a FPS. It plays as a FPS. And when you start ignoring too many staples and mechanics of what makes a FPS fun.. well you get dust. (And the tank fiasco) Dust will always be reviewed and judged as a FPS, no matter what console or rig it's on.
I know some ladies and blokes that play mmo games. Here and in RL. But I never really asked about their game. Maybe I will.
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Surt gods end
Demon Ronin
1560
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Posted - 2014.01.11 09:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
Denchlad 7 wrote:Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Firing while cloaked didn't break Halo Reach or Halo 4. (some other things arguably do, but not that)
You simply had to introduce an additional counter-balance to it or two. Fast movement made you much more visible, and anytime you were nearby a cloaked opponent your radar went crazy and put you on alert. It was like being invisible while banging a bunch of pots and pans together. You could fire while cloaked, but it made you very visible for a short amount of time. It muted all but the highest pitched sounds while it was activated, so you were effectively deaf.
Movement also drained that cloaks energy reserve.
Yet with all of these disadvantages together, you were able to use any weapon you liked while cloaked. And it was indeed very balanced. Having played Halo, I can tell you that this is by far and a way the best option suggested. If something causes horrible imbalances by its introduction, the easiest way to combat it is to balance it on the contrary, and thats exactly what Halo did with this. CCP shouldn't be afraid to copy the idea, this is true. And at the end of the day, people complaining about high-alpha damage weapons like all the top tier Snipers and the Shotgun... generally speaking your dead before you know whats happened currently, so whats the big deal? Besides, if you get hit by a Thale's, the likelihood is, is that if you want to combat it you'll probably spend the rest of the match looking for it. And for as a Shotty myself, it still takes about 2 shots to inflict any major damage, and any time I've ever been killed by a Shotgunner I've turned, noticed him, by the time I'm retaliating I'm already dead. So the invisibility effect doesn't matter as much as people are making it out to be.
My point exactly. people too worried about the cloak OHK killing their proto, when they have ALREADY been losing their proto suits to us. lol I think the concern stems from them worrying about us having a higher chance of getting away scott free with the deed. which great scout have been doing since beta.
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