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Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 332	Posted - 2014.11.18 03:12:00 - [25141] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: @ Ghost Glad you're here. I would love your take on what Zatara's up to should you have a moment. I have no clue. He's been busy with CPM things. I was on with him today, but we mainly talked PC stuff. I can look at what he posted and try to guess his mind, but that's all I can promise. Thanks, Ghost. Its on Page 5 and 6. In a nutshell ... * Continue with HP drawbacks (expected) * Buff MedFrame EWAR (expected) * Gift Scout Precision to Assault or Logi (surprise!) ... at least this is how I've interpreted him.
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7969	Posted - 2014.11.18 03:15:00 - [25142] - Quote He's trying to split the eWAR trifecta is what is seems like. The trifecta is Damp-Range-Precision as we all know. Right now, scouts are the BEST at all of the above. This causes eWAR disparity (which some argue it rightfully should) What he's trying to get at is removing an aspect and having it shine elsewhere. I don't support EXACTLY what he is saying, but I can get behind parts of it. For example: If it was me. Scouts would dominate the damp side of the spectrum. This gives them dampening they need to avoid the other two suits, but they now have to sacrifice slots to gain better passive eWAR. They are still the best suited for overall eWAR however. Since they damp, they don't need HP. They use these slots for eWAR instead. Assaults would dominate the range side of the spectrum. This gives them long range, low fidelity scans, letting them pick up Commando's and Heavies easily. They can buff out precision, but that requires giving up tank. Armor tankers could potentially take advantage of their highs, but they won't get much benefit from it, AND they lose damage mods. Logi's would dominate the precision side of the spectrum. This gives the heavies and commando's a bit of warning when a damped assault comes to kill them (or something). They can buff out range, but they lose a LOT of tank for it (All logi's are armor tankers. PERIOD. Even the Cal is an armor tank with shield buffer) Get my drift? Note: I would still ensure that scouts can dodge all passive scans if properly damped, and that Focused Scanners retain the ability to scan damped scouts. Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in! FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
Llast 326 An Arkhos 5452	Posted - 2014.11.18 03:25:00 - [25143] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: @ Ghost Glad you're here. I would love your take on what Zatara's up to should you have a moment. I have no clue. He's been busy with CPM things. I was on with him today, but we mainly talked PC stuff. I can look at what he posted and try to guess his mind, but that's all I can promise. Thanks, Ghost. Its on Page 5 and 6. In a nutshell ... * Continue with HP drawbacks (expected) * Buff MedFrame EWAR (expected) * Gift Scout Precision to Assault or Logi (surprise!) ... at least this is how I've interpreted him. Essentially Yes though not concise in delivery this is what Zatara seems to be getting at, with a lot of Politico Pandering in the midst of it. This makes it hard for Zatara to be concise because the community is not unified on what the problem is, his responses simply are around what is believed to get the most support. So it seems to me. If all of these things come in though what would that look like? Also I am annoyed that Zat keeps going on about "scouts" when really it's about Gal/Cal scoutsGÇª please be specific as to what the problem is damn itGÇª but that does not appeal to the greatest number of people i suppose. If we look at rebalancing any role in this game, we have to look at what is over performing and under performing and whyGÇª there are four variations of suits, not all are over performing and not all are under performing. When Sentinels receive a rebalanceGÇª should they take a blanket hit? or should the over performing ones get looked at? When Logi need a buffGÇª are they all performing the same? Likely not. Zatara is looking at "fixing" one "problem" without addressing the problem itself, because it is not defined concisely. This of course is not an uncommon approach, nor unique to Zatara MOAR Ladders
Pseudogenesis Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 943	Posted - 2014.11.18 03:31:00 - [25144] - Quote Matticus Monk wrote: Bayeth Mal wrote: Also if you're playing Destiny and didn't get yourself "The Last Word" I feel bad for you. That thing is freaking sweet. It has a special firing animation and you twirl it in your hand (my favourite thing about nova knives). Sprint up to a boss, blink teleport over behind them, turn, twirl your pistol like a bad ass cowboy and rapid fire every chamber into the back of their head. Oh Hells Yeah! Missed it!!! I'll grab it next time I guess. But I haven't even found a legendary HC and I refuse to buy one, it's a principle thing at this point. I can't believe the odds of not finding given all the various legendary drops I've had. But, Destiny seems to be ending up in the Dust pile of my games anyway. Know what game I'm really diggin on these days...? Lucid dreaming. I used to play that game! Except I took a break because it was too hard and now I'm so bad at it that I never end up playing :( Stabby-stabber extraordinaire I stabbed Rattati once, you know.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 334	Posted - 2014.11.18 03:43:00 - [25145] - Quote Thanks, Ghost and Llast. I've gotta say I don't like this one bit. I'm in favor of buffing MedFrame EWAR, but I can think of no reason to nerf Scout EWAR. I can think of lots of reasons not to. For starters, it'll leave us lopsided as a class. MN and GA might walk away largely unaffected, but what comes of AM and CA? Their prescribed strengths are high-intensity/low-range scans and low-intensity/high-range scans. If we remove their scan strengths, what are they supposed to be the best at? Remember ... no HP tank!
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7975	Posted - 2014.11.18 04:00:00 - [25146] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Thanks, Ghost and Llast. I've gotta say I don't like this one bit. I'm in favor of buffing MedFrame EWAR, but I can think of no reason to nerf Scout EWAR. I can think of lots of reasons not to. For starters, it'll leave us lopsided as a class. MN and GA might walk away largely unaffected, but what comes of AM and CA? Their prescribed strengths are high-intensity/low-range scans and low-intensity/high-range scans. If we remove their scan strengths, what are they supposed to be the best at? Remember ... no HP tank! Hence why I want the "Spy Uplinks" to be Scout exclusive. If they want to remove our passive bonuses to eWAR, then they need to give us a piece of equipment to supplement recon. WE NEED A ROLE Think of them as motion detectors that you can plop down, that have different strengths for the different scouts. Minmatar would be high precision low range and hard to detect (Makes a small area a "Hunting Ground") Caldari would be high precision high range and easy to detect (Any logi with a scanner would pick up its location easily) Amarr would be an all around detector, with decent range, precision, and requires a scout or proto scan to pick it up. Gallente would be a low precision, high range and hard to detect motion mine (Surveys a large area, hard to remove. Great for infiltrators) Basic version is a single use. Advanced is a single use with one in reserve. Proto lets you plop down two and have one in reserve. They also get stats buffs and damp buffs as they go up, reaching the above examples at proto. SCOUT ONLY. This prevents Logi's from spamming this too and creating the permascan again. I would also require that there should be a set amount per team, and that once that limit is reached, new ones replace the old. Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in! FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
Cass Caul 1591	Posted - 2014.11.18 04:11:00 - [25147] - Quote Omg, just got back to Chicago. There is ***** snow everywhere! My room in Cali was a nice, warm, 82-¦F. It's like 62-¦ in here. Also i need to download 4 gigs of updates for my games. . . Might just say "** it" and get DA3 (50 minutes till released) because this is taking forever On Hiatus. This is my smartphone alt
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 338	Posted - 2014.11.18 04:14:00 - [25148] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: ... MN and GA might walk away largely unaffected, but what comes of AM and CA? Their prescribed strengths are high-intensity/low-range scans and low-intensity/high-range scans. If we remove their scan strengths, what are they supposed to be the best at? If they want to remove our passive bonuses to eWAR, then they need to give us a piece of equipment to supplement recon. WE NEED A ROLE Agreed. Or something. And maybe a name change too. "Scout" and all.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2880	Posted - 2014.11.18 04:28:00 - [25149] - Quote "I say we nerf the scout back to worse than where it was pre-1.8. Remove the cloak, remove all module slots, and make scouts have sidearms only and then they'll only out assault our 1k HP insta killing assaults by a little." --Med/Heavy users "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Appia Nappia 1498	Posted - 2014.11.18 04:51:00 - [25150] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: "I say we nerf the scout back to worse than where it was pre-1.8. Remove the cloak, remove all module slots, and make scouts have sidearms only and then they'll only out assault our 1k HP insta killing assaults by a little." --Med/Heavy users "I say, we nerf scouts back to pre-1.8 levels by increasing the number of EWAR modules needed to have a PC viable fit despite the fact that Scout's took few modules back then than they do now" -Zatara So very tired

Appia Nappia 1498	Posted - 2014.11.18 05:02:00 - [25151] - Quote Honestly though, since 1.8 came out Zatara was . . . demanding? too strong a word suggesting is not strong enough, That a Scout need fill ALL their low slots if they don't want to be scanned bcause a gal-scout needed 4 complex damps to get under focused before So very tired
Immortal John Ripper 25612	Posted - 2014.11.18 05:32:00 - [25152] - Quote I forgive all of you for your bad posting and bad ideas. I am a man on a mission.
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7976	Posted - 2014.11.18 05:36:00 - [25153] - Quote Immortal John Ripper wrote: I forgive all of you for your bad posting and bad ideas. Man on a mission? WHAT...... IS YOUR QUEST? Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in! FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
Cass Caul 1592	Posted - 2014.11.18 05:57:00 - [25154] - Quote Appia Nappia wrote: Honestly though, since 1.8 came out Zatara has had the conviction for a Scout need fill ALL their low slots if they don't want to be scanned bcause a gal-scout needed 4 complex damps to get under focused before FTFM On Hiatus. This is my smartphone alt
Immortal John Ripper 25616	Posted - 2014.11.18 07:22:00 - [25155] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Immortal John Ripper wrote: I forgive all of you for your bad posting and bad ideas. Man on a mission? WHAT...... IS YOUR QUEST? Top secret. Ask Ratatti if you really want to know. I am a man on a mission.
Pseudogenesis Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 944	Posted - 2014.11.18 07:41:00 - [25156] - Quote Immortal John Ripper wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Immortal John Ripper wrote: I forgive all of you for your bad posting and bad ideas. Man on a mission? WHAT...... IS YOUR QUEST? Top secret. Ask Ratatti if you really want to know. -2 red jars for not taking the obvious Monty Python setup. Stabby-stabber extraordinaire I stabbed Rattati once, you know.
Cass Caul 1592	Posted - 2014.11.18 07:43:00 - [25157] - Quote Minmatar Scouts are the Black Knights of DUST On Hiatus. This is my smartphone alt
Cass Caul 1592	Posted - 2014.11.18 07:44:00 - [25158] - Quote All my low slots have to be dampeners, but my bonus is to hacking? It's just a flesh wound. On Hiatus. This is my smartphone alt

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 11592	Posted - 2014.11.18 08:29:00 - [25159] - Quote I remember someone here converting the current scout ewar bonuses to module efficacy quid pro quo. I need that data nao , because of reasons What better time to do that change now? "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Cass Caul 1592	Posted - 2014.11.18 09:00:00 - [25160] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I remember someone here converting the current scout ewar bonuses to module efficacy quid pro quo. I need that data nao , because of reasons What better time to do that change now? I made that sheet back in . . . Bravo? Before you shuffled the bonuses, I can mess around with them to keep the current meta with Caldari range and Amarr Precision. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nJp1KcwzCLy4WICjpx49jUA46uqKulFvAakmyvxcbJc/edit#gid=0 That's not the best one. I had another version of the same math but on something with more pages. On Hiatus. This is my smartphone alt

Bayeth Mal Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 1856	Posted - 2014.11.18 09:01:00 - [25161] - Quote 10 notifications. All of them Monk Likes. We'll bang, OK?
Cass Caul 1592	Posted - 2014.11.18 09:21:00 - [25162] - Quote Ah, lol, to keep Amarr Scout at 18dB precision with 2 complex enhancers using module-based bonuses would mean they need to gain 11% per level to Precision enhancer efficacy. On Hiatus. This is my smartphone alt
Cass Caul 1592	Posted - 2014.11.18 09:33:00 - [25163] - Quote https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d_CKdTWACDt9pS8kAFXT9NIqFem8O4KOfI_aL6vU_o0/ Original document made before hotfixes with the original suggestion for module based calculations + new numbers to keep amarr king of precision On Hiatus. This is my smartphone alt
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 343	Posted - 2014.11.18 13:11:00 - [25164] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d_CKdTWACDt9pS8kAFXT9NIqFem8O4KOfI_aL6vU_o0/ Original document made before hotfixes with the original suggestion for module based calculations + new numbers to keep amarr king of precision Are your figures pre-Charlie? Your numbers don't match mine. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zVbDLXDU5gpKjx1YmE9ODVYHxlE40vhNz-L7gBTcY4Y/edit?pli=1#gid=650697524 I believe GalScout racial is 3% (not 5%). I'd be glad to help debug, but I'm traveling today.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 343	Posted - 2014.11.18 13:14:00 - [25165] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: Ah, lol, to keep Amarr Scout at 18dB precision with 2 complex enhancers using module-based bonuses would mean they need to gain 11% per level to Precision enhancer efficacy. I expect Caldari range to behave similarly. On the topic, we'll need to calculate secondary EWAR bonuses as well (Gal Prec, Cal Damp).
Haerr Dead Man's Game RUST415 1938	Posted - 2014.11.18 15:46:00 - [25166] - Quote @Confirmed to Not be Shotty :) Numbers look a bit off, did you change the Electronics skills to be efficacy bonuses instead of bonuses to the base stats?
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 8004	Posted - 2014.11.18 15:57:00 - [25167] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I remember someone here converting the current scout ewar bonuses to module efficacy quid pro quo. I need that data nao , because of reasons What better time to do that change now? I just had a sudden random idea. If we ever get Leigon, and it has social places, can we get a bar called "The Barbershop"? Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in! FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
Matticus Monk Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 2569	Posted - 2014.11.18 16:11:00 - [25168] - Quote Bayeth Mal wrote: 10 notifications. All of them Monk Likes. Just getting warmed up bro!!! 82 degrees!!! Sounds pretty good to me.... It gets down to 76 in our loft in downtown LA and I need to like beg and plead with my wife to turn the heat on.... I'm a 78 and above kind of guy. It's the lean and mean scout nature I guess.... "Monk, I think it's the walking around in your underwear...." Wha?!?! Double posting like a Kaiser. Embracing the death, at Llast. Shoveling out historical beat-downs like a Spade.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 356	Posted - 2014.11.18 16:42:00 - [25169] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Added Sheet "Efficacy" ... https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zVbDLXDU5gpKjx1YmE9ODVYHxlE40vhNz-L7gBTcY4Y/edit?pli=1#gid=1991393770 Not 100% confident in my method as I threw this together in a hurry. Please check my figures before assuming them correct. Gallente: +3% Scan Profile per Level ---> +5% Profile Dampener Efficacy per Level +2% Scan Precision per Level ---> +5% Precision Enhancer Efficacy per Level Caldari: +3% Scan Profile per Level ---> +5% Profile Dampener Efficacy per Level +10% Scan Range per Level ---> +5% Range Extender Efficacy per Level Amarr: +5% Scan Precision per Level ---> +12% Precision Enhancer Efficacy per Level Note: There are a couple gains and several losses to consider; not a perfect science. These numbers are likely wrong. I'll find and fix my error later today. Test Case: Caldari Scan Range +5% per level to Range Extender Efficacy First Extender: 45% * 1.25 = 56.25% Second Extender: 39.11% * 1.25 = 48.89% Base * Skills * 1st Extender * 2nd Extender = 20 * 1.5 * 1.5625 * 1.4889 =/= 94.5 meters +16% efficacy per level gets us closer ... First Extender: 45% * 1.8 = 81% Second Extender: 39.11% * 1.8 = 70.4% Base * Skills * 1st Extender * 2nd Extender = 20 * 1.5 * 1.81 * 1.704 = roughly 92 meters
Cass Caul 1606	Posted - 2014.11.18 17:18:00 - [25170] - Quote Like I said, those are the "original" spreadsheets with module based efficacy on them. They did not recieve updates for Charlie Also, you guys should look up "migraine auras" because I can't see out of half of each eye right now. And going to sleep in a 20 degree difference realllly fucks with your health. On Hiatus. This is my smartphone alt



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