Ah, so Codebreakers are not moving to the high slots? They've got the same PG cost as shield extenders and I like when the scouts give up their primary tank for their suits' proficiency

It's not a necessity, but it gives more option for everyone in high slots. An idea that many support.

we need something that might persuade amarr scouts to not go double precision, as right now they is nothing better to put in high slots for them. I still consider armor reps an idea for that move, as well as range amps and pg upgrades. Also, what happens to all the cal scouts that speced into them to be scout hunters?

You mean the so called "light assault" scout won't be encouraged to use damage mods or shield extenders?

Also, what happens to all the cal scouts that speced into them to be scout hunters?

Damage mods maybe, but why use shield extenders when you can instead catch that sneaky guy trying to flank you? and the amarr scout becomes an 'anti scout' with these changes as they are.

Cal scouts might be ok in PC as long as there are Amarr scouts to a counter them, but don't you think 10% range per level is a bit OP the rest of the time? What about pub matches? Active scanners will be used even less. I think it needs toning down a bit.

I'm not a big fun of numbers and spreadsheets, my head start turning with all those rows and columns

All right, please take a look at the document again.

I have documented all the necessary and relevant scenarios, I hope. At the top of the document, I have collected the key numbers and tried to put them into perspective.


Galogi focused scanner gets the highest range and precision possible, due to it being 1) active, 2) narrow and 3) having a limited duration. This helps establish boundaries that scouts need to live within.

That said, by a combination of racial bonuses and dedication of slots

All scouts can have similar range, 76m to 91, under the Focused at 100m.

All scouts can get under the focused dB by using a cloak, exception Gallente not needing cloak

All scouts can get under the best passive by using 2 dampeners and cloak or 3 dampeners

Best passive at 2 precision modules is beaten by best dampener at 2 dampening modules

This does not require Codebreakers to be in high, so don't assume that is the case.

Now, please give me feedback and theorycraft with me the most OP FOTM this will spawn, and we will try to counter it.

EWAR calculations

Please keep this discussion very focused, don't discuss scan falloff or efficacies, just the numbers in the document and resulting scenarios.

Thanks and appreciated.

We stick with our choices and don't expect a respect. If people think they have wasted their SP with these potential changes so be it. This is new eden, you are stuck with your choices. Adapt or die.

Varoth Drac, I don't know you very well so I'm not sure if you know me. But Scoutly play in PC, number crunching, and figuring out the most effective fits is kinda my thing. You're Amarr and Caldari hypothetical builds, neither of them are the most effective way of playing those suits

If numbers hurt your head, why don't you just take a time out and act as a bystander while the people that like numbers continue the discussion.

Correct me if I'm wrong but Minjas can triple shield tank, 2 dampen, codebreaker and cloak and be invisible to all but galogi

Oh wow, arrogant much?

That was more of a tease comment rather than anything serious.
While Amarr has traded damp for high precision Min will find it harder to beat their passive than Cal or Gal will. Where they trade 1 low to pass a 1 precision Amarr, Min has to trade 2.
They also lack a bonus to aggressive EWAR (range or precision), all of this they've traded for knives and hack, a reasonable trade, though I don't run Min so will get their 2 ISK on the matter.

These solutions seem better than what I was trying to come up with so at least you've succeeded there.

Also, I've never tested this, what happens if you get scanned and then put on your cloak?
Do you disappear off TacNet?

You keep being scanned until the scan duration runs out

Correct, unless of course it is passive scans and in that case you do immediately become hidden. Actives scans though, as Appia said, you remain scanned until the scan duration ends.

Varoth Drac, I don't know you very well so I'm not sure if you know me. But Scoutly play in PC, number crunching, and figuring out the most effective fits is kinda my thing. You're Amarr and Caldari hypothetical builds, neither of them are the most effective way of playing those suits

If numbers hurt your head, why don't you just take a time out and act as a bystander while the people that like numbers continue the discussion.



For the sake of it looking nice, I'm going to use Protofits.com for layout.

To start, let's have the Counter
http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/161/5442 Pro-Gal Logi with proxi and focused scanner. Self sufficient on its own. Can survive 2 shots from a shotgun within optimal range, giving them enough time to take out a pesky cloak-shotgunner.

http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/161/5441 Amarr is king of the city. Lots of times when people are too congested dampening and a cloak just aren't useful. This is the spiritual successor to my 1.7 gal-scout after zatara et al would start spamming focused scanners. Adding a fitting penalty on plates means I switch to enhanced plates instead

http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/161/5440 With a PG buff coming, 1pg to the base of the proto suit is all I need. Any more than that and I can duplicate this only with a better Light Weapon. Definitely better than status quo because this Min will be a better stealth&speed hacker than the Gallente. This really isn't OP at all. It's just well rounded and I'm certain other min-scouts will really love the improvement from Beta to current Charlie suggestions. It actually puts the Min-Scout ahead of where it was pre-alpha.

http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/161/5438 Yeah. this is just pure combat efficiency. 453 shield HP, when you're about to fall into armor, cloak up and regen. flank. just be annoying and get lots of kills in public contracts.

http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/161/5439 this is my baby. It has my necessary 500EHP to engage in CQC and good enough movement speed to still pull out the SMG and perform DDR strafe at a high enough speed to through off people's aim.

Soooooo, in your earnest opinion, based on the document, post Charlie situation in a nutshell?

Soooooo, in your earnest opinion, based on the document, post Charlie situation in a nutshell?

Varoth Drac, I don't know you very well so I'm not sure if you know me. But Scoutly play in PC, number crunching, and figuring out the most effective fits is kinda my thing. You're Amarr and Caldari hypothetical builds, neither of them are the most effective way of playing those suits

@ Floyd and Shaman

SHEW!!!

Come back during regular business hours (aka when a wild Dev isn't hanging about) and make yourselves useful. This isn't your typical thread, and just stopping in because you are shadowing a blue tag is disrespectful. We always like talking shop, and you are welcome to do so as long as you don't just stop buy for Dev attention.

@Aero
Normally I would agree, but Appia was just showing her contempt for disrespectful roaches that like to only stop in when Rattati shows up. You are always welcome because you prevented this thread from being locked

@ Hakuna Rattati
I like it. At least enough to know that it is better than what we have now and to want to see it implemented and give it a thorough run through before suggesting any tweaks for later hotfixes.

Soooooo, in your earnest opinion, based on the document, post Charlie situation in a nutshell?

I'm sorry the discussion about major balancing is taking place in the off topic part of the forums.

I'm sorry the discussion about major balancing is taking place in the off topic part of the forums.

We strategically put it here to avoid people.

All it took was 3 pages of talking about Beer before it got moved from GD!