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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 178 post(s)
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4814	Posted - 2014.01.13 03:04:00 - [1] - Quote In the first day the Commando Registry has made it to 6 pages and counting, opposed the the Scout Registry's 5 pages on day one. (friendly competition, but we're on the same team here) ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4824	Posted - 2014.01.13 04:25:00 - [2] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: WellGÇª If this is a NDA slip upGÇª we are ****ed CCP has stated they wanted to redesign the scouts around cloaks for a long time now. I wouldn't be too worried though, I fully expect scouts to get updates slot layout with two equipment so they can still carry something of their choice. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4846	Posted - 2014.01.13 08:38:00 - [3] - Quote I'll just leave this here, https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1714401#post1714401 ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4862	Posted - 2014.01.13 09:57:00 - [4] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: ALL SCOUTS LOSING THEIR SIDEARM BUT GETTING TWO EQUIPMENT https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1714603#post1714603 In my opinion this will serve you guys well. Scouts are squishy thus aren't suited well for combat, so they don't need two light weapons. A second equipment slot will serve you better. Oh so I can now use only NKs if I want to make my bonus useful..... Looks at MD/SG/CR and flinches It's not you baby it's me...... Very interesting point. What about this: Since no one really uses nova knives outside of scouts, what if they were simply prefitted onto all scouts suits? You still wouldn't have a sidearm slot, but you'd get to pick a light weapon and have nova knives. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4863	Posted - 2014.01.13 10:01:00 - [5] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: ALL SCOUTS LOSING THEIR SIDEARM BUT GETTING TWO EQUIPMENT https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1714603#post1714603 In my opinion this will serve you guys well. Scouts are squishy thus aren't suited well for combat, so they don't need two light weapons. A second equipment slot will serve you better. Oh so I can now use only NKs if I want to make my bonus useful..... Looks at MD/SG/CR and flinches It's not you baby it's me...... Very interesting point. What about this: Since no one really uses nova knives outside of scouts, what if they were simply prefitted onto all scouts suits? You still wouldn't have a sidearm slot, but you'd get to pick a light weapon and have nova knives. and how would this work with NK tiers, I don't want to be restricted to STD knives. Perhaps tier matches tier of dropsuit? I'm simply thinking on the fly here ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4922	Posted - 2014.01.13 17:54:00 - [6] - Quote With the new scout changes, I'm seeing a lot of dispute between scouts being more stealth oriented versus scouts being more combat oriented. Instead of CCP trying to straddle two horses here, what if they simply made the scout purely stealth/intel oriented and then released a new specialization from the light frame called "Assassin" that was more combat oriented? Scouts would get the bonus to cloaking, have two equipment slots, no sidearm slot, and stuff like that where as the Assassin would get bonuses towards damage, have only one equipment slot, still have a sidearm, and would perhaps be a little faster. So basically your sneaky scout versus glass cannon assassin. What would you say to that? ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5016	Posted - 2014.01.14 05:02:00 - [7] - Quote hidden noob wrote: new scout here. id rather losse the nade slot than the side arm. how am i going to knife people with no side arm and still be able to get more than one kill a game. I don't scout too much, but from my experience the grenade slot is one of the most valuable. I don't play it like a combat suit, I focus purely on infiltrating. With the amount of equipment spam in Dust, this makes a scout with a flux grenade quite valuable. Get behind enemies lines and quickly get rid off all the equipment clusters. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5036	Posted - 2014.01.14 15:26:00 - [8] - Quote So we got this new image from CCP recently http://i900.photobucket.com/albums/ac201/fireofprometheus624/image_zps41af8247.jpg Seeing as it is new, surely it is to showcase some of the new stuff coming our way. We take a close look, http://i900.photobucket.com/albums/ac201/fireofprometheus624/image_zps5f6f06a5.jpg It appears to be the same Caldari scout from different angles on the left and right and an Amarr scout in the center. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5041	Posted - 2014.01.14 16:02:00 - [9] - Quote Keeriam Miray wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: So we got this new image from CCP recently http://i900.photobucket.com/albums/ac201/fireofprometheus624/image_zps41af8247.jpg Seeing as it is new, surely it is to showcase some of the new stuff coming our way. We take a close look, http://i900.photobucket.com/albums/ac201/fireofprometheus624/image_zps5f6f06a5.jpg It appears to be the same Caldari scout from different angles on the left and right and an Amarr scout in the center. Butt's of gallente med frame (on left), minmatar light frame (on right) & amarr light frame... very entertaining, angle . They can do better than that... EDIT: Now with that "tail" amarr light frame will look like sort of armored lizard thing :) I've heard people say that but I still don't see how that is a Gallente medium or Minmatar light on the left and right, respectively. Look at some pictures of those suits and compare, there are some differences. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5050	Posted - 2014.01.14 19:09:00 - [10] - Quote Ruthless Lee wrote: The tough thing with all this is that the more you specialize the suits (be it for sniping, eWar, CQC or something else) ... the more diversity and 'sandbox' gameplay is discouraged. There has to be a balance between the logis, who have a great deal of flexibility, and scouts, who are almost never the best suit for any situation, no matter what modules, weapons and equipment you want to put on there... Keeping the game balanced, while still giving people choices that actually make a difference, seems to be a difficult thing, but I'm not sure splitting the scout roles into different suits is the best way to get there. Less flexibility isn't what I'm after, anyway. I really, honestly think that if you give the scouts the second EQ slot, and a bit more CPU/PG, without taking anything away ... then that's it. You've got it right. It's not going to be OP (unless cloaking is broken, and to be honest ... that's not our problem), but it gives us what we need to effectively fill multiple "scout" roles, depending on your playstyle. It still gives us options. And I think most scouts would agree ... the last thing any of us want is for our suit to become OP or FOTM or ... whatever. We're a small, tight-knit community of players who are uninterested in EZ mode, who endure through thick and thin ... and want it to stay that way. One more EQ slot isn't going to change that, and it's certainly not going to break the game. That's why there needs to be basic non-specialized suits that are good at doing a wide array of things, while have multiple specialized suits that are laser focused on one or two things. After all, that is why they are called specializations. Also combat was never really a "scout" role, that's not what scouts do. However, so many people have taken up to using scouts and light frames in general as fast assault players so they supported that. But if you try to make a single specialization both combat oriented and stealth oriented then it's not going to be great at either because of how they'd have to balance it, so that removes an option and makes the sandbox less flexible. More specializations are a good thing, as well as making the basic frames good for a lot of things but a master of none. And to be clear, this combat oriented light frame specialization I am thinking of would be much better than any combat-fitted light frame you can currently make, because it would be designed from the ground up to be combat oriented and there'd be no situation where "Oh, but this suit can also do stealth so we have to make sure we don't give it too much combat power." Nope, none of that. It'd be a combat light frame assassin if you will, and do very well at that, but not have the stealth potential of the scout. More specializations allow suits to get much better in certain areas than less specializations could ever allow. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open

Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5054	Posted - 2014.01.14 19:37:00 - [11] - Quote Ruthless Lee wrote: I see what you're saying, but here's the thing ... we're waiting on a scout fix. It's been too long. Apparently, things are finally moving on that front. And while I have no problem -- in theory -- with these specialty suits being an option around the basic, non-specialized dropsuit, I think they are only cluttering things up at the moment. It's taken how long to get the basic racial suits out there? Now we're talking about getting some specialized suits crafted as part of the "fix" for scouts? How long would THAT take? I really think that right now, the focus has to be just getting the basic scout suit working as it should be, with the option to come back to these specialized suits once that's done. I like where you're coming from, Aero, and I'm not saying these specialty suits aren't something to consider ... but I feel that getting the basic scout suits performing as they should has to take priority at the moment. Especially considering that all the other dropsuits are evidently getting a pass very, very soon. That is definitely a fair concern to have, CCP doesn't have a good track record for getting things out within a reasonable time frame. However, do you believe that specialty suits and broad-generalists suits are the way of the future for Dust? If so, wouldn't you rather have CCP start working on that now and be finished sooner in the long-run, rather than make the scout suit design something temporary and then have to change it yet again when they get more specializations and then have people ask for respecs again because they changed the scout and all those problems? There really is no ideal way to go about this, just finding out the least-wrong way. However, I'd imagine the light frame basic would keep it's sidearm even if they removed it from the scout, so there would still be that in the meanwhile. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5055	Posted - 2014.01.14 19:42:00 - [12] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: And to be clear, this combat oriented light frame specialization I am thinking of would be much better than any combat-fitted light frame you can currently make, because it would be designed from the ground up to be combat oriented and there'd be no situation where "Oh, but this suit can also do stealth so we have to make sure we don't give it too much combat power." Well put. particularly in recognizing that CCP basically has the obligation to attempt some kind of excuse at balance (For everything except logistics suits, of course) So yeah. i agree with you in principle. However, I think the simplest way to proceed with that, would be to leave existing scout suits as is (keeping them the more "combat oriented" ones), and make the new ones, the stealth oriented ones. Which would mean actual noticable differentiation between racial scout suits. Some people whine about that sort of thing, along the lines of (all suits should be the same!!) To which I say, go play COD or something then. That is definitely another way to go about it. Instead of making the scouts the stealth oriented role and then add in a new combat oriented role, make the scouts the combat oriented role and then make a new stealth oriented role. However, CCP already seems dead locked on making the scout bonus a fitting reduction for cloak, a stealth mechanic, and the ideal bonus of a combat oriented light frame would be more about damage and such. Kagehoshi Horned Wolf has a thread about a potential Assassin role, being more combat oriented. He describes it as having no light weapons but three sidearms and a damage bonus to sidearms as the class bonus. Not saying this is how they should go about it, but just something interesting. Especially considering that it appears each race will get three types of sidearms (knives, pistol, smg) so with this proposal you'd be able to carry one of each. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5084	Posted - 2014.01.15 02:08:00 - [13] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Appia Vibbia wrote: Also, 8 days to a tripple SP event. I have 1 Omega Active booster that I'll use. Going to get over 1million SP GÖÑ Same. CPU/PG skill maxing here I come... wooo... Such a boring way to spend so much SP. But it feels so good once you have Electronics and Engineering up to 5, like a giant load taken off your shoulders. When you don't have Electronics and Engineering maxed, every time you access your skill tree those skills are just sitting there, stirring at you, slapping your virtual face. I also have an Omega Booster that I'll be using during triple SP, I'll probably be putting most of it in specific weapon fitting optimizations. Now that is fun ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5112	Posted - 2014.01.15 07:22:00 - [14] - Quote So I took the time to actually look into what is possible on the Commando as far as fitting goes and estimated how much SP it will take, and realized I'd have around 2-3 million SP left over. So, you guessed it, I will be getting into scouts with you guys. Glorious, glorious Amarr scouts. A lot of the dropsuit upgrades and weaponry skills are transferable, so I imagine I could get a really good advanced scout fit going. Not that anyone cares, just thought I'd share. I haven't played scout actively since Chromosome days, only mildly during Uprising. I still won't use it too much after the update, but more than I have been; it will be my secondary. Probably drop by here a lot more to learn from you guys who actively stuck with it the whole time. P.S. I'll be hunting you guys down this week in the event, sorry ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5113	Posted - 2014.01.15 07:32:00 - [15] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: So I took the time to actually look into what is possible on the Commando as far as fitting goes and estimated how much SP it will take, and realized I'd have around 2-3 million SP left over. So, you guessed it, I will be getting into scouts with you guys. Glorious, glorious Amarr scouts. A lot of the dropsuit upgrades and weaponry skills are transferable, so I imagine I could get a really good advanced scout fit going. Not that anyone cares, just thought I'd share. I haven't played scout actively since Chromosome days, only mildly during Uprising. I still won't use it too much after the update, but more than I have been; it will be my secondary. Probably drop by here a lot more to learn from you guys who actively stuck with it the whole time. P.S. I'll be hunting you guys down this week in the event, sorry At least tell me hit will be in FW so i can work on my collection Commando suits gotta catch em all Whenever I can muster up a full squad I hit Amarr FW, but without one there isn't much point in FW at the moment. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5115	Posted - 2014.01.15 08:41:00 - [16] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: Well that was fun 9 vs meGÇª I lost but came in top and bottom of the leader board 800 wp 3 kills and 5 deathsGÇª I hacked and baited One point they had me pinned down behind a CRU with a HAV and two flankers tossing nades as they approached, so no RE trap could save me. It was strangely fun Got two nice emails after and several hundred thousand ISK Cool story bro. Seriously. No sarcasm. I would of sent you at least a million though ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5153	Posted - 2014.01.15 23:51:00 - [17] - Quote mollerz wrote: Krom Ganesh wrote: Llast 326 wrote: Sidearm Scouts The Ion Pistol will have a charged shot for alpha hits Aeon's thread o' "leaks" Though from the sounds of the description, you better hope that charged shot hits or you're stuck with an overheated weapon and a displeased red. Is it like a charged sniper rifle or an SCR? Neither. It is like the assault forge gun and plasma cannon. You have a charge up time, then it instantly fires off one shot. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5153	Posted - 2014.01.15 23:59:00 - [18] - Quote Krom Ganesh wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Neither. It is like the assault forge gun and plasma cannon. You have a charge up time, then it instantly fires off one shot. Really? The impression I got from the description was that it worked like a mini-SCR. This is going off old info from the devs, so it may have changed. The description certainly does state clearly that you don't have to charge it, so that much is different. I'm still not sure if you will be able to hold the charge. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5212	Posted - 2014.01.17 06:26:00 - [19] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Dear Diary, CCP pleasantly surprised me to the point I almost broke out into tears. I just wished this could have happened months ago but alas if this continues for the next council I have done a job well done. Sorry about the soggy pages, IWS <^-^> Excellent, excellent news. Also thank you for giving us insight without breaking the NDA. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5222	Posted - 2014.01.17 08:01:00 - [20] - Quote Damn Amarr Scout sounds perhaps too good. 2 H 4 L at prototype, 170 armor 60 shield, only 0.4 m/s slower than the Minmatar scout . . ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open

Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5232	Posted - 2014.01.17 09:23:00 - [21] - Quote With the base scan radius getting bumped to 20 meters, Amarr and Minmatar scouts will be able to get a 30 meter scan radius without the use of modules Caldari and Gallente scouts will be able to get a 37.5 meter scan radius without the use of modules ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5235	Posted - 2014.01.17 09:44:00 - [22] - Quote Oswald Rehnquist wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: With the base scan radius getting bumped to 20 meters, Amarr and Minmatar scouts will be able to get a 30 meter scan radius without the use of modules Caldari and Gallente scouts will be able to get a 37.5 meter scan radius without the use of modules which is why the longer range sidearms go so well with it Also considering that the gal scout gets an auto armor regen bonus, plus a free sig reduction bonus, that leave a huge number of low slots to boost armor, leaving the gal scout thy tank of the scout world, making it thy king of cqc being able to take quite some punishment when victims turn around to shoot. Yup, Gallente scout definitely looks like the best option right now, but I'm excited to be going into the Amarr scout. We'll get 40 extra armor over you guys and will be able to sprint near endlessly. Very excited. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5238	Posted - 2014.01.17 10:22:00 - [23] - Quote Brokerib wrote: Oswald Rehnquist wrote: Brokerib wrote: Does anyone know the conversion for the ground speed? Don't know what 565 means in m/s. 5.65 So a drop of 0.25m for the Gal, and 0.05m for the Mini? It is movement speed, which gets amplified when you are considering sprinting speed. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5239	Posted - 2014.01.17 10:46:00 - [24] - Quote Brokerib wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Brokerib wrote: Oswald Rehnquist wrote: Brokerib wrote: Does anyone know the conversion for the ground speed? Don't know what 565 means in m/s. 5.65 So a drop of 0.25m for the Gal, and 0.05m for the Mini? It is movement speed, which gets amplified when you are considering sprinting speed. All good, mistook the Amarr run speed for the Gal one. Should be a noticeable difference between the Mini and the Amarr at a run, about 0.6m a second if the same ratio's hold. Yup, but a proto Amarr Scout will have a stamina of 281, which is 28.1 seconds of sprinting. This is compared to the Minmatar's 210 stamina, which is 21 seconds of sprint. So a 7 second difference there. But wait! The ak.0 has one more low slot than the mk.0. So use that as a complex cardiac regulator which increases stamina and stamina recovery by 110% (100% with 10% efficacy from the skill), that increases the Amarr Scout to 590 stamina, which is 59 seconds. It's regen would then by 40 base with 25% from bonus and 110% from module, so 105 recovery per second. So yeah, the Amarr Scout can run for a close to a full minute, then take less than a six second breather and do it again. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5239	Posted - 2014.01.17 10:48:00 - [25] - Quote GRIM GEAR wrote: It looks as though with level 5 Amarr scout dropsuit operations you will not have to run a cardio regulator, which in it's self frees up a low slot. Actually I think all of the scout suit bonuses allow more freedom with our slot lay outs. Eh, not quite. If you are used to running complex cardiac regulators which boost you your stamina by 110%, then 25% will feel lacking. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5337	Posted - 2014.01.17 20:55:00 - [26] - Quote This was brought up in the Amarr scout bonus parity thread, but what is the Amarr scout racial bonus was the equivalent of every other scout, meaning it had a free complex module and standard module. The standard module would be the stamina, while the complex module would be 2% scrambler pistol damage per level. This would also cause the Amarr scout to mirror the Minmatar scout (both having weapon damage bonuses) much in the same way that they Gallente and Caldari mirror each other (dampening versus precision). ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5343	Posted - 2014.01.17 22:07:00 - [27] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: This was brought up in the Amarr scout bonus parity thread, but what is the Amarr scout racial bonus was the equivalent of every other scout, meaning it had a free complex module and standard module. The standard module would be the stamina, while the complex module would be 2% scrambler pistol damage per level. This would also cause the Amarr scout to mirror the Minmatar scout (both having weapon damage bonuses) much in the same way that they Gallente and Caldari mirror each other (dampening versus precision). Could work but I think you're underestimating how useful that much stamina on a scout is going to be. Still doesn't change the fact that the current Amarr bonus isn't even the equivalent of a standard cardiac regulator, while the other three scouts all get bonuses that are the equivalent of a complex module and then something else as well. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5344	Posted - 2014.01.17 22:10:00 - [28] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: This was brought up in the Amarr scout bonus parity thread, but what is the Amarr scout racial bonus was the equivalent of every other scout, meaning it had a free complex module and standard module. The standard module would be the stamina, while the complex module would be 2% scrambler pistol damage per level. This would also cause the Amarr scout to mirror the Minmatar scout (both having weapon damage bonuses) much in the same way that they Gallente and Caldari mirror each other (dampening versus precision). The way I was looking at the Amarr was that rather than lose the slot as per normal Amarr builds, they received equal slots gaining the ability to add a bonus of their choice. But the whole mantra of "Amarr has one less slot because HP" is gone away with. Look at the Commando and Sentinel, both have the same amount of slots as the other racial variants with a bonus equal in value as well. Plus they were even made slower than they currently are (probably as the balance for adding one more slot). I could understand your argument if the same racial mantras of today still applied in 1.8, but they don't. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5347	Posted - 2014.01.17 22:42:00 - [29] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody can I please get a direct response from you here. I keep seeing you in multiple threads stating that the Amarr's stamina bonus is going to be more useful than we think, but have you even looked at what the values of cardiac regulators are? A standard cardiac regulator is 25% more stamina and 50% more stamina regen, while the Amarr scout's bonus is only 25% to each. It's not even as good as a standard module, that's crazy! Sure saying you can run for 29 seconds may sound good, but when you consider how easy it is to mimic by the other scouts, and that if an Amarr scout wanted to mimic the other scout's racial bonus it would have to fit a complex module plus another standard module, you can't honestly say this is a good bonus? Opinions? I am up for a debate. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5349	Posted - 2014.01.17 22:57:00 - [30] - Quote pseudosnipre wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: This was brought up in the Amarr scout bonus parity thread, but what is the Amarr scout racial bonus was the equivalent of every other scout, meaning it had a free complex module and standard module. The standard module would be the stamina, while the complex module would be 2% scrambler pistol damage per level. This would also cause the Amarr scout to mirror the Minmatar scout (both having weapon damage bonuses) much in the same way that they Gallente and Caldari mirror each other (dampening versus precision). Could work but I think you're underestimating how useful that much stamina on a scout is going to be. Still doesn't change the fact that the current Amarr bonus isn't even the equivalent of a standard cardiac regulator, while the other three scouts all get bonuses that are the equivalent of a complex module and then something else as well. What bonus fits the lore, is useful, and not weapon based? In my thread, I was suggesting 20% stamina recovery and max stamina per level, and that is being nice. At level 5, this would match a complex cardiac regulator which also does 100% stamina recover and 100% max stamina. Compared to the Gallente scout which gets the equivalent of a complex profile dampener plus a standard range amplifier, the Caldari scout which gets the equivalent of a complex precision enhancer, a standard precision enhancer, and a standard range amplifier, and the MInmatar scout which gets the equivalent of a complex codebreaker plus many complex sidearm damage mods (assuming you use a nova knife), I'd say my suggested bump in the Amarr racial scout bonus is more than modest. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open

Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5384	Posted - 2014.01.19 00:34:00 - [31] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: (and give the Amarr less to whine about) You keep saying that our stamina bonus is better than we think, but that doesn't change the fact that it is less than the value of a standard cardiac regulator while all the other scouts are getting the equivalent of a complex mod and then an extra bonus on top of it. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5386	Posted - 2014.01.19 00:44:00 - [32] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Llast 326 wrote: (and give the Amarr less to whine about) You keep saying that our stamina bonus is better than we think, but that doesn't change the fact that it is less than the value of a standard cardiac regulator while all the other scouts are getting the equivalent of a complex mod and then an extra bonus on top of it. The higher base stamina and stamina regen close the gap a fair bit, by the way. 25% bonus is larger with a larger base number, after all. What if the bonus was higher? But I don't think it's particularly worth complaining about. None of the racial scout bonuses are exactly earth-shatteringly good. Arkena, that is a poor argument. All Amarr suits have more stamina, but the Amarr version of every other class is getting a bonus on par with the rest. And what are you talking about none of the other scout bonuses are good? They are a free complex module and then some! Ok, so how about this, what if instead of changing the Amarr racial bonus to be on par with the rest, what if we changed the rest to be on par with Amarr? Gallente: +2% reduction to profile signature per level. No other bonus. Caldari: +2% scan precision per level, no other bonus. Minmatar: +1% nova knife damage per level OR +2% hacking speed per level. I mean, if the Amarr bonus is less than the equivalent of one standard module, then why not for the rest? But no one would like that, so it'd better just to keep everyone elses bonuses the same and put the Amarr bonus on par. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5387	Posted - 2014.01.19 01:02:00 - [33] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Llast 326 wrote: (and give the Amarr less to whine about) You keep saying that our stamina bonus is better than we think, but that doesn't change the fact that it is less than the value of a standard cardiac regulator while all the other scouts are getting the equivalent of a complex mod and then an extra bonus on top of it. I said it once Aero, the stamina bonus is good, and you should have something else, but it should not bring the suit to OP, I know you don't want that either. The thing is with a number of the other people pushing for changes are not seeing the potential this suit has, many of them seem not to have run scout before, and many seem to not understand what the changes they propose would actually do. For example: A bonus to Scrambler Pistols dmg is not the same as a bonus to NK dmgGÇª I run both. (though i think a fitting bonus might work well) And i am only teasing about the whining. I think you know I have advocated for the Amarr to get better balance in FW, parity in suits and many other things despite not playing Amarr myself. The HP potential of an Amarr scout is pretty high, and even without tanking them out they look to have a much higher survival rate than any other scout. It is not a bad suit, but the way some people have been talking you would think it was worse than the current Min Scout. I've heard you say it on at least two separate occasions. And Llast, are you aware that a compex cardiac regulator is a 100% increase in stamina and stamina regen? I'm not saying "more stamina is stupid," which it seems like you're suggesting. All I'm saying is that our bonus isn't even as good as a complex module. Let me explain this to you simply Amarr Bonus: 25% more stamina and 25% more stamina regen Standard Cardiac Regulator: 25% more stamina and 50% more stamina regen Gallente Bonus: 25% profile dampening (and 25% scan range) Complex Profile dampener: 25% profile dampening Caldari Bonus: 25% scan precision (and 25% scan range) Complex Precision Enhancer: 20% precision Minmatar Bonus: 25% hacking speed (and 25% NK damage) Complex Codebreaker: 25% hacking speed As you can see, every other race is getting a primary bonus that is the same or better than a complex module, and then a secondary bonus as well. Meanwhile, the Amarr only get a bonus that is not even as good as a standard module. Do you honestly think that is right? A complex cardiac regulator is 100% more stamina and 100% more stamina regen, so the Amarr racial bonus needs to get buffed to 20% per level and then they still need to add in a secondary bonus. Or, you can keep the Amarr bonus at 5% per level and make that the secondary bonus, then give the Amarr a primary bonus that is equal value as some complex module (perhaps a complex kin cat?) And oh, Amarr only has 40 more HP than a Gal or Cal scout, and sacrifices that for speed (which is far more important to a scout), so I'm not too sure about that higher survivability. I mean, the Minmatar Assault is faster than an Amarr scout. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5388	Posted - 2014.01.19 01:36:00 - [34] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: I'm sorry, but you don't think 800 stamina would be broken? It was possible before they fixed the glitch and you could basically run forever. I agree that it is disappointing, but 20 percent per level would be nuts. First of all, 20% per level would result in the Amarr scout's stamina at 550 at level 5, not 800. And no, I don't think it would be broken at all. If it would be broken, then why are complex cardiac regulators 100% increase to stamina and stamina recovery? The point is all other scouts get to save a module slot on their suit with a built in module of the same value as a complex, yet the Amarr only gets a bonus that isn't even as good as a standard module. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5388	Posted - 2014.01.19 01:46:00 - [35] - Quote What I hate most about this is it may appear like I am only advocating so strongly for a better Amarr racial bonus because I favor the Amarr, but that is not the case at all. This bonus is simply not on par with the rest, and I'd be doing the same thing regardless of which race was getting gimped. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5390	Posted - 2014.01.19 01:53:00 - [36] - Quote Scrambler Pistol Operations is already +1 clip size per level, another bonus to scrambler pistols clip size really isn't needed. The bonus would have to be something else. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5392	Posted - 2014.01.19 05:23:00 - [37] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: What I hate most about this is it may appear like I am only advocating so strongly for a better Amarr racial bonus because I favor the Amarr, but that is not the case at all. This bonus is simply not on par with the rest, and I'd be doing the same thing regardless of which race was getting gimped. Aero, I can see where you are coming from here, and honestly i do not think that you are pushing this as favouring the Amarr. Please understand that I am not arguing against you, and I hope you understand that I am not against balancing the Amarr scout. The thing is having the ability to but two complex Card Regs on a suit without a stacking penalty will not be good for balance. As I have said before it needs something else, what that is I don't know, but most of the suggestions I have seen are not likely to be balanced either. The confrontational attitude that many (not saying you, but you have verged on it before) take is not one that will produce good dialogue on the subject so I avoid it. Also don't imply that I am slow and need things put simply for me, this is very much not the case. I apologize if my teasing caused offence, honestly I don't think of your posts as whining Aero (and actually was not even thinking of you in that way at all). You are actually someone that I have respect for, and I actually enjoy reading what you have to say. I get what you're saying, but your argument is flawed. The Gallente can put on essentially two complex profile dampeners without stacking penalty, the Caldari can put on essentially two complex precision enhancers without stacking penalty, and the Minmatar can put on essentially two complex codebreakers without stacking penalty. So why is it only bad for Amarr? I'm not saying the bonus definitely has to be 20% stamina per level, but if it were it wouldn't be OP. The Amarr would inherently be able to sprint for 55 seconds, which is about how long anyone would be able to sprint with a complex cardiac regulator. And really if you used a complex cardiac regulator on a scout before, you'd know that there's really no point in going any higher. So say an Amarr scout gets this and does slap on a complex cardiac regulator in addition? So he can sprint for now 1 minute 50 seconds. This is opposed to a regular Amarr light frame who slaps on two complex regulators, gets the stacking penalty, and can run for 1 minute 42 seconds. That's what doesn't register with me, all the people fussing that giving the Amarr a free complex regulator are essentially fussing because they'd be able to sprint a whole 8 seconds longer. And really, how many times do you want to hold a sprint for over one minute anyways? So to sum up, Saying no stacking penalties apply is moot because the same can be said for the other races All no stacking penalty does is let an Amarr scout sprint for 1 minute 50 seconds instead of 1 minute 42 seconds. No one really sprints for longer than a minute anyways And I am not saying this needs to be the Amarr scout bonus, I am just saying there is nothing wrong with it either. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5545	Posted - 2014.01.20 08:58:00 - [38] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Also, should we inform the Commandos about the Corp Forums? This is really a fantastic way for "Clubs" on the forums to have their own little area on the forums. It's really cool how this can be done. I think the commando's could benefit from this stroke of genius as well! You rang? What is this you are talking about? ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5549	Posted - 2014.01.20 10:14:00 - [39] - Quote Going to leave this here for you guys to ponder over about how the Amarr scout has so much better tanking ability than every other scout and thus doesn't need a bonus that is on par with the rest. Aero Yassavi wrote: Tech De Ra wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Have you even looked at CPU/PG for this or are you just assuming because you have slots you can fit whatever you want? After skills, the ak.0 has 446 CPU and 92 PG 3 complex plates, 1 advanced plate, 2 complex shield extenders: 218 CPU and 64 PG used adding a K17/D (R) hive: 265 cpu and 76 PG used 220 shield, 779 armor, 2 weapon slots, a grenade slot and an equip slot free, with 181 CPU and 16 PG free to fit them You should know me enough by now Aero that i don't comment on things that i can't back up :P So I took the liberty to do the same thing with the gk.0. After skills it has 433 CPU and 97 PG 3 complex plates, 1 advanced plate, 2 complex shield extenders: 218 CPU and 64 PG used adding a K17/D (R) hive: 265 CPU and 76 PG used 233 shield, 729 armor, 2 weapon slots, a grenade slot, and an equip slot free with 168 CPU and 21 PG free to fit them That is 37 less EHP, 13 less CPU, 5 more PG, and faster than the Amarr scout. So yeah, tell me how this argument of Amarr being so combat ready that it doesn't deserve a bonus equivalent to a complex mod, yet the Gal scout is arguably more combat ready and can get a bonus equivalent to a complex mod plus a secondary bonus. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5596	Posted - 2014.01.20 17:47:00 - [40] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: @ IWS I tried to explain how huge that stamina bonus is to some people but a lot of people dont get it. I personally think stamina is one of those things that is hard to explain how important it is to a scout so everyone is like "MEhhhh boring." Boring yes, but important to your survival it is. Cyrius, as I tried to explain to you many times, no one is saying a stamina bonus is not huge or important. All we're saying is the percent per level is not enough. When you add a complex cardiac regulator to a Caldari or Gallente suit, they can sprint for 42 seconds. When you add a complex cardiac regulator to a Minmatar suit, they can sprint for 44.1 seconds. This isn't really far off from 45 seconds, which the Amarr scout would have if the bonus was in line with a complex cardiac regulator. When you consider that these suits are faster, they would also travel more distance in this shorter time. And yes, it is fair that these suits would have to use a slot to achieve similar stamina performance, because an Amarr would also have to use a slot if it wanted to achieve similar profile dampening, scan precision, or hacking speed. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open

Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5598	Posted - 2014.01.20 18:05:00 - [41] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: The thing is though the amarr suit has a built in modules as is. On top of the plate is has built in it has 3x proto stamina regen portion and 1 complex portion of the max stamina of the regulator preinstalled at max level, 1 basic codebreaker to top it all off. IWS, get your numbers straight. The lowest scout's base stamina regen is 30. Amarr scout's stamina regen is 40. So this is just a 33% bonus, or 1/3 of a complex cardiac regulator stamina regen portion. The lowest scout's base stamina is 200. The Amarr scout's stamina is 225. This is just a 12.5% bonus, or 1/8 of a complex cardiac regulator stamina portion. Also you are failing to understand that the reason is Amarr have more stamina is because they are slower, and they are slower because they have 30 more HP. That's already balanced within itself. Don't see how having more armor and more stamina is made up for simply by being slower? Let me explain. Let's calculate how far the suits can sprint. Assuming that sprint speeds are 1.4x the movement speed, G: 7.63 m/s * 20 seconds = 152.6 meters C: 7.63 m/s * 20 seconds = 152.6 meters M: 7.91 m/s * 21 seconds = 166.11 meters A: 7.35 m/s * 22.5 seconds = 165.375 meters As you can see, the increased stamina is so it can travel roughly the same distance while sprinting, but it still achieves this at a slower pace which is a negative and made up for by the positive of 30 more HP. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5599	Posted - 2014.01.20 18:09:00 - [42] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: True Adamance wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: @ IWS I tried to explain how huge that stamina bonus is to some people but a lot of people dont get it. I personally think stamina is one of those things that is hard to explain how important it is to a scout so everyone is like "MEhhhh boring." Boring yes, but important to your survival it is. I understand how important it is. Its the key to my mobility, my jumping, my sprinting. I have a basic capacity and pretty fair understanding of this game. But you don't think the other bonuses aren't significantly unfair. To achieve similar performance in one field I would have to dedicated a complex module to my Amarr scout yet another suit would only have to deciated a Standard module. Now granted the Amarr do have a stamina bonus, however this stamina bonus is basic racial aspect of the suit, and not something to be bartered with for its bonus. That's like taking the speed from the Minmatar suit but making its bonus the equivalent of a standard Kinetic catalyser. The differences that seem to be ignored is that the complex modules are different from the stamina bonus. Damp bonus can be countered Precision bonus can be countered Hacking bonus works great in Skirmish, is okay in Dom, virtually pointless in Ambush Not all modules are the same, implying that they are is misleading. Let me just copy/paste this same argument again to show you that the stamina bonus could indeed by countered, When you add a complex cardiac regulator to a Caldari or Gallente suit, they can sprint for 42 seconds. When you add a complex cardiac regulator to a Minmatar suit, they can sprint for 44.1 seconds. This isn't really far off from 45 seconds, which the Amarr scout would have if the bonus was in line with a complex cardiac regulator. When you consider that these suits are faster, they would also travel more distance in this shorter time. And yes, it is fair that these suits would have to use a slot to achieve similar stamina performance, because an Amarr would also have to use a slot if it wanted to achieve similar profile dampening, scan precision, or hacking speed. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5610	Posted - 2014.01.20 19:48:00 - [43] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: The thing is though the amarr suit has a built in modules as is. On top of the plate is has built in it has 3x proto stamina regen portion and 1 complex portion of the max stamina of the regulator preinstalled at max level, 1 basic codebreaker to top it all off. IWS, get your numbers straight. The lowest scout's base stamina regen is 30. Amarr scout's stamina regen is 40. So this is just a 33% bonus, or 1/3 of a complex cardiac regulator stamina regen portion. The lowest scout's base stamina is 200. The Amarr scout's stamina is 225. This is just a 12.5% bonus, or 1/8 of a complex cardiac regulator stamina portion. Also you are failing to understand that the reason is Amarr have more stamina is because they are slower, and they are slower because they have 30 more HP. That's already balanced within itself. Don't see how having more armor and more stamina is made up for simply by being slower? Let me explain. Let's calculate how far the suits can sprint. Assuming that sprint speeds are 1.4x the movement speed, G: 7.63 m/s * 20 seconds = 152.6 meters C: 7.63 m/s * 20 seconds = 152.6 meters M: 7.91 m/s * 21 seconds = 166.11 meters A: 7.35 m/s * 22.5 seconds = 165.375 meters As you can see, the increased stamina is so it can travel roughly the same distance while sprinting, but it still achieves this at a slower pace which is a negative and made up for by the positive of 30 more HP. Amarr base is 225 + scout bonus 1.25* at lvl 5 resulting in a 281.25 and if you wall wait some darn tootin minutes Ill get the entire marathon laid out. Amarr scouts best trait will be presence, being in places he needs to be well before other people get there over longer distances. But IWS, we're not asking for 100% bonus on top of it's 25% bonus, we're asking 100% bonus from the base value to make the bonus in-line with the rest of the racial bonuses. Thus, you need to look at the base stamina, 225, not the stamina after the current bonus. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5614	Posted - 2014.01.20 19:50:00 - [44] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Anyways continuing work on the reverse engineering score system. Trying to run up a scoring system that measures suit performance based on built in modules from a 'blank' suit which basically means takes the worst stats possible and round down. This is what I would call an adam suit if perfected, but for now since its just scouts only going to call this one the Cain suit instead. The more I try to balance the scores out the more it looks like minmatar got the shortest end of the metascore of built in modules. (however I haven't counted speed into yet which probably would help ALOT) either way Ill post the results once I get done. If you find an imbalance with the base stats of suits, then balance that out by tweaking the base stats of suits. Don't transcend that over to racial bonuses. Base stats balance with base stats Racial bonuses balance with racial bonuses ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5614	Posted - 2014.01.20 19:52:00 - [45] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: The thing is though the amarr suit has a built in modules as is. On top of the plate is has built in it has 3x proto stamina regen portion and 1 complex portion of the max stamina of the regulator preinstalled at max level, 1 basic codebreaker to top it all off. IWS, get your numbers straight. The lowest scout's base stamina regen is 30. Amarr scout's stamina regen is 40. So this is just a 33% bonus, or 1/3 of a complex cardiac regulator stamina regen portion. The lowest scout's base stamina is 200. The Amarr scout's stamina is 225. This is just a 12.5% bonus, or 1/8 of a complex cardiac regulator stamina portion. Also you are failing to understand that the reason is Amarr have more stamina is because they are slower, and they are slower because they have 30 more HP. That's already balanced within itself. Don't see how having more armor and more stamina is made up for simply by being slower? Let me explain. Let's calculate how far the suits can sprint. Assuming that sprint speeds are 1.4x the movement speed, G: 7.63 m/s * 20 seconds = 152.6 meters C: 7.63 m/s * 20 seconds = 152.6 meters M: 7.91 m/s * 21 seconds = 166.11 meters A: 7.35 m/s * 22.5 seconds = 165.375 meters As you can see, the increased stamina is so it can travel roughly the same distance while sprinting, but it still achieves this at a slower pace which is a negative and made up for by the positive of 30 more HP. Amarr base is 225 + scout bonus 1.25* at lvl 5 resulting in a 281.25 and if you wall wait some darn tootin minutes Ill get the entire marathon laid out. Amarr scouts best trait will be presence, being in places he needs to be well before other people get there over longer distances. But IWS, we're not asking for 100% bonus on top of it's 25% bonus, we're asking 100% bonus from the base value to make the bonus in-line with the rest of the racial bonuses. Thus, you need to look at the base stamina, 225, not the stamina after the current bonus. You have to take regen into account not just stamina pool. I did, read the quotes. And again, you have to ignore base stats when balancing racial bonuses. The racial bonuses need to balance to each other. If you think the Amarr for whatever reason has better base stats, then you need to lower those, not give it a sub-par racial bonus. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5618	Posted - 2014.01.20 20:09:00 - [46] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: \ *Aero You MUST include built in stats into the suit PERIOD when considering bonuses. To break your point. Suit's bonus is 10+ Armor HP/s per level. But the suit only has 10 armor Hp max. Silly bonus at that point. This is called synergy, and on a real scoring system the better the ship fits the bonus the far higher the multiplier of synergy the ship or suit gets. Whole reason why the Ferox and many minmatar ships sucked because the synergy levels of the bonus versus the built in ship bonus was excessively poor. The ship did not support the bonus at all. No, you shouldn't, because if you are including base stats and racial bonuses together in one grand balancing act, what you are doing is assuming you have Level 5 in the racial suit. And what that results in is imbalance between the lower tiers when you only have the skill to level 1 or level 3. And the example you provided does not at all counter the point I am trying to make. Yes, the racial bonuses need to be decided based on the built in stats, but the values of the bonus need to be balanced independently from base stats. So once you pick a bonus that is reflective upon the built in stats, then balance the bonus separately from the built in stats, what you have are a full set of racial suits that are balanced not only at level 5 but at every level in between as well. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5618	Posted - 2014.01.20 20:15:00 - [47] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: @ Aero and True [snipped]. So are you discarding our opinions and well thought out arguments because we support Amarr on a lore standpoint? If so, that is very close-minded of you. My arguments have nothing to do with the fact that I support Amarr lore-wise. This is entirely about dropsuit balance. I am also advocating that all the other Sentinels besides the Amarr are simply bad (Gallente and Caldari Sentinels are too much like dual tankers and the Minmatar Sentinel is just bad), its just those discussions aren't getting as much traction so you don't see as many comments regarding it. EDIT: And yes, I use a proto Gal scout with complex cardiac regulators, I understand how this affects things. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5619	Posted - 2014.01.20 20:19:00 - [48] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: A) Do you have enough experience in Stamina/Biotics to grasp the buff? B) Why rant here, in the scout shrine? It's spam. C) I use the Imperial Basic Stamina Mod and honestly it makes a vast difference. To these specific points A) Yes, I use a scout gk.0 with complex cardiac regulators, I have good first hand experience with this. B) Because you guys are questioning me so I have to respond back? C) I'm not arguing that basic cardiac regulators are bad, but if you think that's an acceptable bonus than the Gal scout bonus needs to be reduced to only the value of a standard profile dampener, the Cal scout bonus needs to be reduced to only the value of a standard precision enhancer, and the Minmatar scout bonus needs to be reduced to only the value of a standard codebreaker. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5619	Posted - 2014.01.20 20:25:00 - [49] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: @ Aero and True [snipped]. So are you discarding our opinions and well thought out arguments because we support Amarr on a lore standpoint? If so, that is very close-minded of you. My arguments have nothing to do with the fact that I support Amarr lore-wise. This is entirely about dropsuit balance. I am also advocating that all the other Sentinels besides the Amarr are simply bad (Gallente and Caldari Sentinels are too much like dual tankers and the Minmatar Sentinel is just bad), its just those discussions aren't getting as much traction so you don't see as many comments regarding it. I said nothing of lore....double checks.....yeah nothing about lore in there..... I'm just saying take it elsewhere it doesn't belong in this thread. Go hijack elsewhere. You said, "Look you guys are advocates for everything Amarr I get it" which is implying that you only think we are advocating for Amarr because we have some sort of Amarr bias, which truthfully we do but only in terms of the lore. That is what I was getting at. I'm simply saying don't assume that I am simply going to always argue to make Amarr stuff better, because I don't and that would be stupid. I argue for everything when I notice an imbalance. And is this not a scout thread? And you discuss scout stuff here? Sorry, I don't see the problem here, I'm staying on topic of scouts. And no one has yet to provide a good reasoning for why the other scouts get a complex mod equivalent bonus while the Amarr get a standard mod equivalent bonus. The main arguments I see is "But Amarr stamina is still good with a standard stamina bonus," but that does not even address the disparity. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5620	Posted - 2014.01.20 20:30:00 - [50] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: \ *Aero You MUST include built in stats into the suit PERIOD when considering bonuses. To break your point. Suit's bonus is 10+ Armor HP/s per level. But the suit only has 10 armor Hp max. Silly bonus at that point. This is called synergy, and on a real scoring system the better the ship fits the bonus the far higher the multiplier of synergy the ship or suit gets. Whole reason why the Ferox and many minmatar ships sucked because the synergy levels of the bonus versus the built in ship bonus was excessively poor. The ship did not support the bonus at all. No, you shouldn't, because if you are including base stats and racial bonuses together in one grand balancing act, what you are doing is assuming you have Level 5 in the racial suit. And what that results in is imbalance between the lower tiers when you only have the skill to level 1 or level 3. And the example you provided does not at all counter the point I am trying to make. Yes, the racial bonuses need to be decided based on the built in stats, but the values of the bonus need to be balanced independently from base stats. So once you pick a bonus that is reflective upon the built in stats, then balance the bonus separately from the built in stats, what you have are a full set of racial suits that are balanced not only at level 5 but at every level in between as well. Golden Rule of Balancing, from the top everything turned on. I never said don't balance with everything turned on? FFS. If you balance the base stats with each other, and then balance the racial bonuses with each other, what happens is you get everything balanced at every level, including the "everything turned on" level. If you only do one grand balance with "everything turned on," then the only thing that will be balanced is "everything turned on" and not any of the inbetween. The first approach is far better game design. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open

Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5621	Posted - 2014.01.20 20:45:00 - [51] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1738096#post1738096 But I never got an answer from you guys. You must have either missed it or swept it under the rug. Anyways it's a key part of my argument and I don't want to repeat myself. I'm saying that you guys love amarr stuff and of course you guys would have the most wisdom on amarr related things but how can you deny fitting costs, innate suit specs, and it's differentiation from other suits? You already made a thread about this is what I'm getting at. Would you allow a man to live in your home when there is nothing wrong with his? The problem with what you're saying in that post you linked is that you're doing the same thing IWS is, which is trying to do one grand balance. As I have already explained, it is better game design to balance the base stats and racial bonuses separately as it creates better balance. Also in terms of fitting costs, Amarr: Standard cardiac regulator: 5CPU 4PG Gallente: Complex profile dampener and standard range amp: 48CPU 0PG Caldari: Complex precision enhancer and standard range amp: 31 CPU 0PG Minmatar: Complex codebreaker (ignoring NK damage since that's hard to equate to a module): 45CPU 11PG The Amarr bonus fitting value equivalency isn't nearly the same as the others. And don't act like this thread isn't suitable for this discussion. It's not like this thread is about heavies or logis or tanks, it's about scouts. I am simply expressing a concern to wherever it will be heard. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5626	Posted - 2014.01.20 21:20:00 - [52] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: When thinking about stamina you have to consider it's two uses currently in game: the marathon at the beginning of a match, and your ability to sustain motion during hectic fights. One of the prime abilities of a scout on CQC maps is the ability to be nearly everywhere at once. Your stamina dictates not just your survivability but how aggressive you can be in combat. It dictates how much presence you can have on the battlefield. When you run out of stamina you are easily hunted down and killed. Most of my deaths when I'm on a roll come from when I finally run out of stamina and can no longer kite/run away from my enemy. In these realistic applications of stamina and aggression, a scout must take breaks to refill his stamina pool. Even with a complex regulator a minmatar/gallente/caldari scout has to wait for a very long time once he runs out of stamina or he will have to choose to continue to fight with in a weakened state. A scout entering a fight with less than half a stamina bar and runs into something unexpected is probably going to die. With a bonus to pool AND regen the realistic applications of stamina on an Amarr scout means this: With it's higher EHP and juggernaut like stamina he will be able to remain aggressive until his HP runs out. Not the other other way around like every other scout. You spend practically no time with regen (you're not supposed to be about HP regen anyway). You can remain aggressive until you 1. Run out of ammo 2. Get killed. No scout is sprinting 100% of the time. Sometimes it feels like it but it's not. Especially if you're jumping over railings a lot. The Amarr's regen and pool size means it will practically never see it's stamina depleted in most situations. Two things 1) Again, no one is arguing that stamina is a bad bonus. The argument is simply the value per level is not on par with the other racial bonuses. 2) It has been proven that the Amarr does not really have that much higher HP. Only 30 more, or 37.5 when you add in armor and shield upgrades. That is hardly much of a better inherent stat bonus than say the Gallente's inherent 3 hp/s armor rep or Caldari's inherent 50 hp/s shield regen and low delays. What I am getting at here is again, you balance base stats with base stats and racial bonuses with racial bonuses if you want the best overall balance. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5626	Posted - 2014.01.20 21:27:00 - [53] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: When thinking about stamina you have to consider it's two uses currently in game: the marathon at the beginning of a match, and your ability to sustain motion during hectic fights. One of the prime abilities of a scout on CQC maps is the ability to be nearly everywhere at once. Your stamina dictates not just your survivability but how aggressive you can be in combat. It dictates how much presence you can have on the battlefield. When you run out of stamina you are easily hunted down and killed. Most of my deaths when I'm on a roll come from when I finally run out of stamina and can no longer kite/run away from my enemy. In these realistic applications of stamina and aggression, a scout must take breaks to refill his stamina pool. Even with a complex regulator a minmatar/gallente/caldari scout has to wait for a very long time once he runs out of stamina or he will have to choose to continue to fight with in a weakened state. A scout entering a fight with less than half a stamina bar and runs into something unexpected is probably going to die. With a bonus to pool AND regen the realistic applications of stamina on an Amarr scout means this: With it's higher EHP and juggernaut like stamina he will be able to remain aggressive until his HP runs out. Not the other other way around like every other scout. You spend practically no time with regen (you're not supposed to be about HP regen anyway). You can remain aggressive until you 1. Run out of ammo 2. Get killed. No scout is sprinting 100% of the time. Sometimes it feels like it but it's not. Especially if you're jumping over railings a lot. The Amarr's regen and pool size means it will practically never see it's stamina depleted in most situations. My math is quickly supporting this. Max Regulator setup and skills 1964 Stamina 194 Which means seconds of running 30 Jumps in a row 350 stamina regen a second Just making a big jump over a hill and you recover all the stamina used for the jump and then more while maintaining speed. 1) Your jump ability is not based on stamina amount, but rather stamina percent. This means that no matter how much stamina you have, you cannot increase the amount of jumps you can perform in a row. Also it means than an equivalent stamina regen bonus won't let you regen your jumps faster because the higher stamina pool increases how much stamina it requires to jump. 2) No one is going to run max regulator, so it's silly to say the bonus would be bad because the Amarr scout would have 1964 stamina. Let me prove show you some real math. If the Amarr scout bonus were 20% per level, then the Amarr scout's new stamina with no modules would become 450, or 45 seconds of sprinting. Now let's compare If a Gallente scout adds a complex cardiac regulator, it's stamina becomes 420 If a Caldari scout adds a complex cardiac regulator, it's stamina becomes 420 If a Minmatar scout adds a complex cardiac regulator, it's stamina becomes 441 So they are pretty much all in line, with the Amarr scout only able to sprint for 3 more seconds than the worst stamina scout. And yes, it is fair to compare an Amarr scout with bonus and no mods to other scouts with a mod slot, because if the Amarr scout wants to have comparable profile dampening, scan precision, or hacking speed it too would have to use up a module slot. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5627	Posted - 2014.01.20 21:30:00 - [54] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: You can't always balance stuff by the numbers without thinking about how it's actually applied in battle. I'm telling you these things as a practically full time scout. I would not direct this suit in a bad position as I know what it's like to be gimped. I am considering how these numbers actually apply in battle, see my above post. And don't think that I have no experience whatsoever scouting. And in the end, your argument has to be more than "Look at my resume, I am right" but you actually have to provide a sound argument with data to back it up. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5668	Posted - 2014.01.21 04:54:00 - [55] - Quote True, there is no place for logic here. We've all been arguing the same thing over and over and no one is budging. Best we wait for an official response from CCP now, surely they have already heard all the arguments for and against. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5669	Posted - 2014.01.21 05:04:00 - [56] - Quote mollerz wrote: So far, Amarr scouts are good at walls of text and ceaseless QQ. That stamina buff sure is working! LOL, ok that is funny I must admit But honestly, none of this is QQ, it's all fair sensible argument with valid data backing it up. The only arguments I've seen against it is "Scouts have been so neglected for so long, just be happy" or "Stamina bonus is so good that it doesn't matter that the bonus is a standard module while everyone else gets complex." Or even "Amarr already have more stamina inherently so it's fine," which completely neglects the fact that Minmatar also have more hacking speed inherently yet get a bonus to hacking (all scouts get an inherent 5% bonus to hacking except Minmatar which get an inherent 10%.) ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5672	Posted - 2014.01.21 05:28:00 - [57] - Quote Brokerib wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: mollerz wrote: So far, Amarr scouts are good at walls of text and ceaseless QQ. That stamina buff sure is working! LOL, ok that is funny I must admit But honestly, none of this is QQ, it's all fair sensible argument with valid data backing it up. The only arguments I've seen against it is "Scouts have been so neglected for so long, just be happy" or "Stamina bonus is so good that it doesn't matter that the bonus is a standard module while everyone else gets complex." Or even "Amarr already have more stamina inherently so it's fine," which completely neglects the fact that Minmatar also have more hacking speed inherently yet get a bonus to hacking (all scouts get an inherent 5% bonus to hacking except Minmatar which get an inherent 10%.) Honestly...very little of the argument has been sensible. Most of it has been emotive and vitriolic, and completly ignores alternate viewpoints. Most scouts will support a push to change the bonus. But the Amarr proponents need to stop complaining about everyone else's suit, attacking anyone with a different view point, and stop calling for other scouts to be nerfed to meet an arbitrary equivalence. I fully support the push to update the bonus, but the posts so far have been extreme in their views. Keep in mind that with the current bonus, lvl 5 Amarr scout and a complex cardio, the frame will sprint for over 60 seconds. That's insane mobility. All other suits would need two complex modules to compete. As IgniteableAura indicated, scouts are a class that are most effective when pushing their extremes. Minmatar run kin cats to enhance their speed bonus, they don't just rely on the inherent bonus. Amarr can do the same with the cardio. Everything about the Amarr bonus argument is sensible, it is about balancing out the respective values of the racial bonuses. Honestly the people in favor of an Amarr bonus change are being modest, as they aren't even really asking for a secondary bonus like every other scout, just an on par primary bonus. And no one is attacking other suits, but this "arbitrary equivalence" isn't arbitrary at all. It's called game balance. Most of you scouts here are arguing that the Amarr's base stamina is so good that it doesn't need an on par complex equivalent bonus, but you fail to realize that the Amarr scout's base stamina is only good because the suit's base stats are lacking in other areas. Here are some sensible and logical numbers for you to chew on, If the Amarr scout's bonus was 20% per level, it would have 45 seconds of sprint at level 5. If a Gallente scout equipped a complex cardiac regulator, it would have 42 seconds of sprint. If a Caldari scout equipped a complex cardiac regulator, it would have 42 seconds of sprint. If a Minmatar scout equipped a complex cardiac regulator, it would have 44.1 seconds of sprint. All of these are comparable values, plus they are also faster than the Amarr so would travel further in the slightly shorter time frame. And yes, it would be fair that these suits would have to equip a module to achieve comparable performance because likewise, the Amarr scout would have to equip a complex profile dampner, a complex precision enhancer, or complex codebreaker to achieve comparable performance to the other scouts in these respective areas. No one has yet attempted to counter this argument. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5689	Posted - 2014.01.21 05:50:00 - [58] - Quote Guys, CCP already stated they do not read this thread (because it is too many pages, too hard to keep track of things) so I'll respectfully leave you be. But if anyone is interested in continuing to argue, I'm looking for good counter arguments here, https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1746486#post1746486 ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5689	Posted - 2014.01.21 06:04:00 - [59] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Guys, CCP already stated they do not read this thread (because it is too many pages, too hard to keep track of things) This is actually part of why we have discussions in here, so that we can get a reasonable dialogue and understanding of many points of view before tossing ideas into feedback and requests or general discussionGÇª or wherever things land. Argumentative stances tend to be less productive. Argumentative stances tend to be less productive? What does that even mean? Every point of view is an argument, just by definition. Anyways, I'd love to see you try to counter the argument made in the thread I linked. If you can, my mind will be changed. Pinky swear. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5695	Posted - 2014.01.21 06:23:00 - [60] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Llast 326 wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Guys, CCP already stated they do not read this thread (because it is too many pages, too hard to keep track of things) This is actually part of why we have discussions in here, so that we can get a reasonable dialogue and understanding of many points of view before tossing ideas into feedback and requests or general discussionGÇª or wherever things land. Argumentative stances tend to be less productive. Argumentative stances tend to be less productive? What does that even mean? Every point of view is an argument, just by definition. Anyways, I'd love to see you try to counter the argument made in the thread I linked. If you can, my mind will be changed. Pinky swear. A point of view is perspective, if you hold your perspective as the only valid way of seeing things then yes, you are right. Though if you understand other perspectives, view things in multiplicity and done only adhere to linear or black and white approaches then it's not an argument, because there is not a right or wrong, just difference. We are very different people you and I An argument by my definition isn't necessarily holding your opinion as the only valid way of seeing things. Particularly in the case I'm presenting in the thread, I am openly inviting someone to change my mind. I guess just a difference in how we each define an argument. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open

Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5706	Posted - 2014.01.21 07:40:00 - [61] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Outer Raven wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Guys, CCP already stated they do not read this thread (because it is too many pages, too hard to keep track of things) Certainly while the scout registry may be too long for CCP to chime in on, it can and will still be a forum of thought and reflection on the status of scouts and the game at large. Conversations that require CCP can and should break off from this hub of thought and start a thread anew. This is rather interesting in the sense that it showcases the strength or rather the tenacity of a small but passionate community of players. One can only hope that some time in the far flung future of this game and forum alike that there will still be a scout registry thread ever increasing, ever growing in its body of work. This community was the only reason why I stayed in Dust. If not for you guys, I would have moved on a long time ago. I am glad I did not This community has also been an inspiration for my own Commando registry, so I definitely appreciate what y'all have done and contributed to in Dust. Oh and yes, speaking of the Commando Registry I don't actually plan on going Amarr Scout right away, it'll be something I probably start working on in a month or so depending on the status of a respec. Though I'll definitely be keeping my Scout gk.0 alt and work with that quite a bit in the meantime! ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5775	Posted - 2014.01.21 21:37:00 - [62] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Spademan wrote: Personally, I'd like to see a small bonus to pistol damage or something like that for the Amarr along side its current stamina bonus. Like, i dunno, 2% per level? Amarr Commando. Increasing the damage for a pistol on a scout is extremely dangerous. If they want more damage they should risk their tank. I ran pistols and knives for a long time and even with zero proficiency skills an ADV pistol will give a proto suit witha proto weapon with proper skills invested a large run for it's money. A scout with an extra 10% plus 10% for a damage mod plus cloaking with a pistol would be absolutely ridiculous. Plus we need to be careful how we buff marauder. Damage mods will no longer be 10% at complex. Also TTK is getting increased, partially with some weapons getting base damage nerfs, so hard to tell which weapons will still be as powerful as they currently are. Though I ultimately agree that damage bonuses are very dangerous. An ammo capacity bonus on the other hand would be nice, since the scrambler pistol does chew through its batteries. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5775	Posted - 2014.01.21 21:37:00 - [63] - Quote Marad''er wrote: What would a good bonus then be to scrambler pistols? There's max ammo, max clip size, dmg, range, rof, and zoom fidelity. Dmg is out of the picture. So is rof I think. We should do a poll for max ammo, clip size, range, and zoom fidelity I'd take a 5% scrambler pistol ammo capacity bonus per level in a heart beat. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5776	Posted - 2014.01.21 21:41:00 - [64] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Spademan wrote: Personally, I'd like to see a small bonus to pistol damage or something like that for the Amarr along side its current stamina bonus. Like, i dunno, 2% per level? Amarr Commando. Increasing the damage for a pistol on a scout is extremely dangerous. If they want more damage they should risk their tank. I ran pistols and knives for a long time and even with zero proficiency skills an ADV pistol will give a proto suit witha proto weapon with proper skills invested a large run for it's money. A scout with an extra 10% plus 10% for a damage mod plus cloaking with a pistol would be absolutely ridiculous. Plus we need to be careful how we buff marauder. Damage mods will no longer be 10% at complex. Also TTK is getting increased, partially with some weapons getting base damage nerfs, so hard to tell which weapons will still be as powerful as they currently are. Though I ultimately agree that damage bonuses are very dangerous. An ammo capacity bonus on the other hand would be nice, since the scrambler pistol does chew through its batteries. I think an ammo capacity buff would be great. It'd also fit in with the "Amarr are built for the long run" mantra that people seem to like. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5778	Posted - 2014.01.21 21:55:00 - [65] - Quote Marad''er wrote: Quil Evrything wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: I'd take a 5% scrambler pistol ammo capacity bonus per level in a heart beat. Meh. isnt there already a skill for that? Seems like scrambler pistols are fine as-is. flaylocks, on the other hand, seriously need an increase in clip size. Either intrinsic, or at least as a skill. There is, however amarr scouts would have it innately. We could also skill into the actual skill to get even more ammo if we want. Kinda like how there is proficiency on nks... But min still get a bonus Thank you for explaining this exactly as I would have. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5779	Posted - 2014.01.21 22:06:00 - [66] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: While I know that having two fitting bonuses is kinda lameGÇª (Cloak + weapon) Fitting bonus to LAAAZZZOOORRR would not necessarily be a bad thing for the Amarr scout. Amarr weapons are tough to fit Scouts have a hard time fitting top end gear (though this looks to be less of an issue with the new stats) It creates fitting space for other high cost mods (Ferro I am looking at you, that's right no slow down on the already slower scout) Laser weapons already has a diverse selection of weapons Scrambler rifle is a very adaptive weapon for scout use (Amarr Urban Sniper, that will still handle some solid battle and peekaboo fighting) Most scouts already know the pistol to be a Boss. LRGÇª well it's supposed to be buffed, though i still don't like the "here I am" trail of light. Laser weapons are tough to fit because of CPU. Minmatar and Caldari are shield oriented, which also uses CPU, so it can be hard for them to fit. Amarr and Gallente are armor oriented, which uses more PG meaning they don't get as much CPU. However, the Amarr when compared to the other armor race, Gallente, has more CPU in exchange for PG. So Amarr actually is already designed to fit laser weaponry fairly well. Hope that made sense. Also I'd hold off on suggesting any more fitting reductions until we see the fitting costs of cloaks. I've used the stats presented to make prototype scout fits of all races and all of them end up with a lot of spare CPU/PG for that cloak, so it's really hard to judge. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5781	Posted - 2014.01.21 22:09:00 - [67] - Quote I also agree for a flaylock balancing pass. It's a darn near extinct species ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5781	Posted - 2014.01.21 22:13:00 - [68] - Quote Ruthless Lee wrote: I think the Amarr scout should be 5% shinier with every level. I would take this as well. I love my shinys ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5792	Posted - 2014.01.21 23:11:00 - [69] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: They really need a way to save posts. I'm tearing through the search trying to find the post I made on how to fix the flaylock, but I can't seem to find it :( I had lots of good data in that post. Click the number in the top left of your posts. Bookmark. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5800	Posted - 2014.01.22 00:05:00 - [70] - Quote Scout Registry wrote: @ ScP Buffs as Racial Bonus The ScP user may end up losing ground in the long run, should a buff today lead to a nerf tomorrow. Very dangerous proposal, IMO. The weapon is incredibly effective as is. Perhaps incredibly effective currently, but there is no way to truly how all that will change with new weapon stats, new weapons in general, and increased TTK. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open

Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5818	Posted - 2014.01.22 06:27:00 - [71] - Quote Commando ak.0 Laser Rifle CRD-9 Scrambler Rifle Complex Light Damage Mod Complex Armor Repairer Enhanced CPU Upgrade Enhanced PG Upgrade Cloak Field 250 shield 562 armor 6.25 armor repair rate Can I be an honorary fatty scout? ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5819	Posted - 2014.01.22 06:35:00 - [72] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Also I'm sure this has been brought up, but since it sounds like shooting automatically ends your cloak, doesn't that make the complex cloaks bad? Because every time you shoot, you have to wait 40 seconds to recloak opposed to 20 seconds if you're using standard? Unless you are planning on running around invisible for 80 seconds not doing much, the complex cloak seems bad. Its apparently going to act like stamina so you can cloak decloak at your leisure :D Oh great, that is exactly what I was going to suggest! Now the only real concern is the NPE. New players looking to play scout won't be able to use the defining feature. With only 15% fitting reduction, and given these fitting costs and standard scout fitting capabilities, it's just not going to happen. Maybe at level 3 it'll be better, haven't looked much into it, but initial reaction is that the cloak won't viably fit on any scout until you get the full 75% fitting reduction. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5828	Posted - 2014.01.22 07:19:00 - [73] - Quote 1st Lieutenant Tiberius wrote: Wonder what the Skill Multiplier is gonna be, or do we know this? Probably 3x like every other piece of equipment. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5831	Posted - 2014.01.22 07:51:00 - [74] - Quote mollerz wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Commando ak.0 Laser Rifle CRD-9 Scrambler Rifle Complex Light Damage Mod Complex Armor Repairer Enhanced CPU Upgrade Enhanced PG Upgrade Cloak Field 250 shield 562 armor 6.25 armor repair rate Can I be an honorary fatty scout? No you have to ***** harder and make at least 10 more threads about amarr scouts. Saberwing already said he is passing the thread over to the design guys, so no more need until we hear back from them Also I made two threads and it was about scout racial bonus balance, but whatever. Sorry if that made you not like me ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5917	Posted - 2014.01.24 21:45:00 - [75] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Llast 326 wrote: Brokerib wrote: Does anyone know if any Minmatar scout BPOs were ever released? Just curious for when player market gets released. I've got the full Templar set, so I'd love to trade the Amarr BPO suits for a Gallente scout BPO and a Mini scout BPO, if it exists. no Minja BPO has ever been released that I am aware of Edit: Double posting like a Kaisar I will confirm this. The original 4 are the only ones with bpos. Amarr medium has BPOs too ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 5920	Posted - 2014.01.24 22:37:00 - [76] - Quote Marad''er wrote: Cuz I think it's stupid that active scanners even exist.. And that I need to get dampening to counter it Really? I would think scouts should love the existence of active scanners because it helps makes you unique. While everyone is flashing like a light bulb, scouts can easily avoid even the most top-end scanners with a few skills. That gives you a distinct advantage. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 6472	Posted - 2014.02.07 02:10:00 - [77] - Quote https://twitter.com/CCP_Frame/status/431609939677970432 CCP Frame wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: @CCP_Frame Perhaps unlock the Scout Registry but move it to Locker Room? Sad to see a community thread die :( @AeroYassavi Good idea. Might just do that. PRAISE ME SCOUTS!! MWAHAHAHAHA ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 6472	Posted - 2014.02.07 02:15:00 - [78] - Quote I feel I should now be listed in the honorary scout section of the OP for helping get this saved and revived. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 6476	Posted - 2014.02.07 02:20:00 - [79] - Quote Brokerib wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: https://twitter.com/CCP_Frame/status/431609939677970432 CCP Frame wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: @CCP_Frame Perhaps unlock the Scout Registry but move it to Locker Room? Sad to see a community thread die :( @AeroYassavi Good idea. Might just do that. PRAISE ME SCOUTS!! MWAHAHAHAHA Thanks Aero. I promise to think about it for a second if I get the chance to put a knife in your back. I'll still do it, but I'll definitely think about it... I wouldn't have it any other way Just continue working on your stealth, because should I spot you I promise to put a scrambler shot right on your chest. ARC Commander CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 6508	Posted - 2014.02.07 06:20:00 - [80] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: Aero Yassavi, AKA Amarrogance wrote: I am ******* awesome at be humble Paraphrasing a little Good job What fun is being humble!?!?!? Nah you know I'm just having some fun with this. And right before the thread got locked I answered a question in my CPM thread stating how of course I would turn to communities like the Scout Registry for their opinions given their expertise. I mean, I am far from a full time scout but even I know how good this community you guys built is good for the health of Dust 514. Hopefully CCP goes on to create a sub-forum for each specialization, that would be most awesome! And Aero said unto his children, "LET THERE BE A REGISTRY" CPM Info and Q&A -Status: Open

Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 7667	Posted - 2014.03.20 01:51:00 - [81] - Quote Figure you guys would know more about dampening than I do, so I'm coming here. If I'm making a fit and it has a profile signature of 35.69 dB, do I still avoid advanced scanners or does it round up to 36 and thus I get scanned by advanced scanners? "You're not even Aero, you're just Aero's friend."
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 7668	Posted - 2014.03.20 02:01:00 - [82] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Figure you guys would know more about dampening than I do, so I'm coming here. If I'm making a fit and it has a profile signature of 35.69 dB, do I still avoid advanced scanners or does it round up to 36 and thus I get scanned by advanced scanners? Area of some debate still In my experience you need below 35.5 to not round up I mean this is using 2 enhanced dampeners even though I have level 5 dampening, and I can exchange one of them for a complex dampener and still be able to fit it. So literally this is a matter of saving 1k ISK per suit. I suppose I just shouldn't be so cheap "You're not even Aero, you're just Aero's friend."
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8737	Posted - 2014.07.13 01:24:00 - [83] - Quote Bayeth Mal wrote: Fundamentally a problem arises when you have 1 ghost scout and 1 precision scout. Either their bonuses are meaningless or they leave the other scouts in a terrible position. Unless we declare two of them "Actual Scouts" and the other two "Light Assaults". None of the scouts should be light assaults, that is not their role. Make them scouts. Reading through the responses, a lot of people are complaining about the proposed Amarr scout having too good of a passive scan precision (which I don't see at all), but you have to remember that not all combat is going to be scouts versus scouts. There are many other suits on the battlefield, or at least there should be. When going up against non-scout suits, all the scouts should be able to easily scan them down. So what is the Amarr scout gaining in these situations? It doesn't matter the margin of how much lower your precision is, lower is lower. So the Amarr scout may be getting a bonus that seems really powerful but it is only effective against one fifth of the suits. Meanwhile the scanning range of the Caldari scout's bonus gives it an edge that works against all opposition suits, as well as Minmatar's nova knife bonus. Additionally, all suits will be able to hide from the proposed Amarr scout's passive scans, two of which don't even need a cloak to do so (Gallente and Minmatar), and of those the Gallente only needs to use 2 of it's 4 low slots. Numbers look pretty good in my opinion. Perhaps we may need to increase the profile dampening of cloaks though or else the Caldari scout won't be able to avoid 15dB. Amarr are the good guys Their way of the Commando seems right and noble
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8737	Posted - 2014.07.13 01:38:00 - [84] - Quote Brokerib wrote: Wow, that was a lot of posts to catch up on My 2 ISK, as the discussion seems well under way. The requirement for two complex damps an an active cloak to avoid the best precision possible seems solid, and allows three of the scouts to outright fit dampeners if they so chose. But I would request that the cloaks be given a base profile dampening at all levels (as per pre-alpha, though probably around the 10% mark instead of 25%, but what ever will work with the math), instead of forcing scouts into using a proto suit with 2 proto modules + one piece of proto equipment. The benefits of the cloak should be around the size of the wave (time dampened), not there only being one viable wave. Otherwise the investment for new bro's is just unachievable. Proto scout + proto dampeners + proto cloak = ~3.6 Mil SP Adv scout + proto dampeners + standard cloak = ~2.1 Mil SP Would also mean that new bro's could fit standard/enhanced damps and cloak to achieve partial dampening. I know most of us are already full up on damps etc, but won't somebody think of the new bros! Scouts are definitely the most skill point intensive role in the sense that you need your skills maxed out for it to work competitively with e-war (especially your scout skill to level 5 so you can manage to fit a cloak). Though that's just the nature of the role, nothing particularly wrong with that. Also given that all standard scouts can avoid advanced scanners with no modules or skills whatsoever, I'd say newer players have plenty of room to work with. If anything should be done in that area though, it would definitely be giving all scouts a 75% cloak fitting reduction as a Role Bonus as soon as you get the skill to level 1/inherent to the suit. There are many cases of such Role Bonuses in EVE, where there is one set bonus inherent to the ship that doesn't go up per skill level as well as another bonus that does increase per skill level. I also agree that the cloak field's profile reduction should be a constant value across all tiers. I know this was changed in Alpha to make the proto cloaks more appealing, but the biggest problem was that standard/advanced cloaks already had such ridiculously long cloak durations. I'd argue with the much shorter durations they have now that the proto cloak would still be very appealing even if it was just extra duration you are gaining. Amarr are the good guys Their way of the Commando seems right and noble
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8737	Posted - 2014.07.13 01:46:00 - [85] - Quote Toby Flenderson wrote: I'm just catching up on the dev posts so I don't know if anyone has brought this up again but if passive scans are shared then precision is innately more powerful. What I mean is that countering 6 dampened scouts with one player with high enough precision is not balanced. I'm for passive scans being shared but I'm also for every scout being invisible with enough sacrifice. Actually, given that passive scans are shared I'd argue that range is the most beneficiary bonus for a scout part of a large squad, as not every enemy will be a scout and all scouts can easily scan non-scouts, so the Caldari's long range scanning will reveal much more enemies to the squad opposed to the Amarr scout's high precision but low range. Essentially the Amarr scout's bonus only gives a benefit when going up against other scouts, where as the Caldari scout's bonus would be better against the other 80% of the suits. Also, given these numbers all scouts would be able to avoid the Amarr scout's best passive scanning, though Caldari scout would require a cloak. On the topic of sharing passive scans with squads, I believe currently all squad members can see each others passive scan from anywhere. What if we change this so in order to see a squad member's passive scan you must be within that squad member's passive scan? So for example, if I am an Amarr scout with 30 meter scan radius, I only share my passive scans with squad members who are also within 30 meters of me. Amarr are the good guys Their way of the Commando seems right and noble
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8740	Posted - 2014.07.13 08:31:00 - [86] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: I said it before and I'll say it again, 2 damps plus a cloak should be all that's needed to dodge the best scanner and best precision out there. Honestly if it were up to me I'd throw away the gallente's damp bonus and the caldari's precision bonus. No scout suit should have them. Here we are balancing E-War for a 3rd time and the gallente is going to end up OP in some way or whatever scan scout is going to end up OP. I hate to say it but I miss the days of the scannerinas. This precision v dampening crap we've got going on is ridiculous. The last post before Ratati coming in was mine saying make bonuses like these: Cal: scan range Gal: cloak duration Amarr: biotic efficacy Min: hacking No precision, no dampening, no mess. Such terrible choices. You can't give one scout an efficacy bonus and the other three inherent bonuses. Using your example, either you'd either have to give Amarr a straight up inherent bonus to speed or melee or stamina or change it so the other bonuses are towards scan range amp efficacy and codebreaker efficacy. Of course, if you give the Amarr scout a bonus to speed or melee it interferes with the Minmatar scout's thing and if you give it a bonus to stamina we're right where we started. On the flip side, if it doesn't make sense that the highest EHP and slowest scout would have bonuses towards biotic efficacy from a game design perspective. Amarr are the good guys Their way of the Commando seems right and noble
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8740	Posted - 2014.07.13 08:38:00 - [87] - Quote Has it been discussed how cloaked scouts who have been scanned appear? Currently one of the big problems I see with dampening versus precision is that if you do get scanned then your cloak is absolutely worthless and wasted because the red chevron appears over your cloak. Shouldn't it be enough that you show up on radar? So if you know how to identify locations using the radar then you can easily know where to look for the visual distortion, but the cloaked enemy won't have the chevron/wall hack. I know some people want scanned targets to light up like a christmas tree, and they should! Unless they are using a cloak, in which case radar identification only is enough. Amarr are the good guys Their way of the Commando seems right and noble
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8740	Posted - 2014.07.13 14:31:00 - [88] - Quote Floyd20 Azizora wrote: we need something that might persuade amarr scouts to not go double precision, as right now they is nothing better to put in high slots for them. I still consider armor reps an idea for that move, as well as range amps and pg upgrades. Also, what happens to all the cal scouts that speced into them to be scout hunters? You mean the so called "light assault" scout won't be encouraged to use damage mods or shield extenders? Amarr are the good guys Their way of the Commando seems right and noble
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8740	Posted - 2014.07.13 14:51:00 - [89] - Quote Floyd20 Azizora wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Floyd20 Azizora wrote: we need something that might persuade amarr scouts to not go double precision, as right now they is nothing better to put in high slots for them. I still consider armor reps an idea for that move, as well as range amps and pg upgrades. Also, what happens to all the cal scouts that speced into them to be scout hunters? You mean the so called "light assault" scout won't be encouraged to use damage mods or shield extenders? Damage mods maybe, but why use shield extenders when you can instead catch that sneaky guy trying to flank you? and the amarr scout becomes an 'anti scout' with these changes as they are. Thinking shield extenders because more tank is always important especially if you are the so-called "light assault" with the slower speed and higher EHP. But in the end, I don't exactly see what is wrong with 2x precision amps becoming the norm for Amarr scouts, if that is their bonus then why shouldn't they be encouraged to expand upon it? Are most Gal scouts not also going to be almost always running 2x dampeners? You could find an example with pretty much every suit, there are always going to be preferred set ups. And honestly even if you move codebreakers to highs most Amarr scouts would still likely favor either amps, damage, or shields. I have a strong feeling that most people suggesting to move codebreakers to high slots are doing so because it helps there specific suit, since the preferred tanking style is armor. Keeping the codebreakers as low so other suits, not just scouts, have to choose between that and armor is a good thing IMO. Amarr are the good guys Their way of the Commando seems right and noble
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8740	Posted - 2014.07.13 14:54:00 - [90] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Cal scouts might be ok in PC as long as there are Amarr scouts to a counter them, but don't you think 10% range per level is a bit OP the rest of the time? What about pub matches? Active scanners will be used even less. I think it needs toning down a bit. Toning it down would require toning down range amplifier mods as well. With bonuses you need to balance them with how easily other suits can get the same effect. Most complex mods are 25% increases so that's why we generally see 5% per level skills, but a complex range amplifier is a 45% increase. 10% per level is needed in this case (or 9% but that looks weird). Amarr are the good guys Their way of the Commando seems right and noble

Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8740	Posted - 2014.07.13 14:57:00 - [91] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: Varoth Drac, I don't know you very well so I'm not sure if you know me. But Scoutly play in PC, number crunching, and figuring out the most effective fits is kinda my thing. You're Amarr and Caldari hypothetical builds, neither of them are the most effective way of playing those suits shaman oga wrote: I'm not a big fun of numbers and spreadsheets, my head start turning with all those rows and columns If numbers hurt your head, why don't you just take a time out and act as a bystander while the people that like numbers continue the discussion. Oh wow, arrogant much? Also people who don't like numbers can still contribute with concept and design feedback, it's not all about number crunching. I can't believe a CPM candidate really just told someone to "act as a bystander." Please don't take this as an attack or insult, I'm merely trying to give you constructive criticism. Amarr are the good guys Their way of the Commando seems right and noble
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8740	Posted - 2014.07.13 15:04:00 - [92] - Quote Bayeth Mal wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but Minjas can triple shield tank, 2 dampen, codebreaker and cloak and be invisible to all but galogi That was more of a tease comment rather than anything serious. While Amarr has traded damp for high precision Min will find it harder to beat their passive than Cal or Gal will. Where they trade 1 low to pass a 1 precision Amarr, Min has to trade 2. They also lack a bonus to aggressive EWAR (range or precision), all of this they've traded for knives and hack, a reasonable trade, though I don't run Min so will get their 2 ISK on the matter. These solutions seem better than what I was trying to come up with so at least you've succeeded there. With all these e-war changes the Minmatar scout has every right to feel left out in the corner, but let's not forget that Hotfix Charlie is also planned to come with a heavy increase to nova knives aim adhesion. Nova knives can already dish out insane damage on a maxed out Minmatar scout, so if this update is done right the "minjas" can become insanely scary, just mostly towards mediums and heavies. Amarr are the good guys Their way of the Commando seems right and noble
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8740	Posted - 2014.07.13 15:08:00 - [93] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: Bayeth Mal wrote: Also, I've never tested this, what happens if you get scanned and then put on your cloak? Do you disappear off TacNet? You keep being scanned until the scan duration runs out Correct, unless of course it is passive scans and in that case you do immediately become hidden. Actives scans though, as Appia said, you remain scanned until the scan duration ends. Amarr are the good guys Their way of the Commando seems right and noble
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8742	Posted - 2014.07.13 15:57:00 - [94] - Quote Floyd20 Azizora wrote: One Eyed King wrote: @ Floyd and Shaman SHEW!!! Come back during regular business hours (aka when a wild Dev isn't hanging about) and make yourselves useful. This isn't your typical thread, and just stopping in because you are shadowing a blue tag is disrespectful. We always like talking shop, and you are welcome to do so as long as you don't just stop buy for Dev attention. @Aero Normally I would agree, but Appia was just showing her contempt for disrespectful roaches that like to only stop in when Rattati shows up. You are always welcome because you prevented this thread from being locked @ Hakuna Rattati I like it. At least enough to know that it is better than what we have now and to want to see it implemented and give it a thorough run through before suggesting any tweaks for later hotfixes. I'm sorry the discussion about major balancing is taking place in the off topic part of the forums. I have to agree with Floyd here. There is nothing wrong with following blue tags around the forums, it is not like the people who normally visit this thread are the only people who this stuff CCP Rattati is talking about pertains to. We all play the game, we all have the right to voice our feedback on a public forums. If anything it's a bit disrespectful to ask people to leave simply because you don't recognize them. Though really, if anyone is to blame, it is CCP Rattati (<3 U!!!) as this topic should of really been made as a new thread in the feedback and ideas section of the forums. Amarr are the good guys Their way of the Commando seems right and noble
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8742	Posted - 2014.07.13 15:58:00 - [95] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Floyd20 Azizora wrote: One Eyed King wrote: @ Floyd and Shaman SHEW!!! Come back during regular business hours (aka when a wild Dev isn't hanging about) and make yourselves useful. This isn't your typical thread, and just stopping in because you are shadowing a blue tag is disrespectful. We always like talking shop, and you are welcome to do so as long as you don't just stop buy for Dev attention. @Aero Normally I would agree, but Appia was just showing her contempt for disrespectful roaches that like to only stop in when Rattati shows up. You are always welcome because you prevented this thread from being locked @ Hakuna Rattati I like it. At least enough to know that it is better than what we have now and to want to see it implemented and give it a thorough run through before suggesting any tweaks for later hotfixes. I'm sorry the discussion about major balancing is taking place in the off topic part of the forums. We strategically put it here to avoid people. All it took was 3 pages of talking about Beer before it got moved from GD! Yeah that was definitely intentional, all part of your very intricately designed planned! Amarr are the good guys Their way of the Commando seems right and noble
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8747	Posted - 2014.07.13 16:21:00 - [96] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Appia Vibbia wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Soooooo, in your earnest opinion, based on the document, post Charlie situation in a nutshell? The concept that the Gal logi has the best precision of all races is really the only thing I find disagreeable from the most recent numbers. Each scout can sacrifice to get under it, and unless a gal-logi is at a supply depot it's got its limitations. The scout Scanning vs scout precision attrition isn't going to make Min-Scout feel useles because most of the time they'll be able to have some of the most well rounded Scout. I think the values for the Cal range is a little too high but like the end results after using range amps. the problem of static bonuses over modules bonuses, so if we ever get around to making all bonus modules based it'll feel better. What if we fix those two things at the same time, after working so much with this data in the last few days, a 45% range increase seems indulgent. Why not 25% and then we can take down the cal radius a tad because it just needs to better in than a 4 range fit on another scout. You would have to do them at the same time. I personally think 25% on the modules feels a bit weak because you also have to consider any medium suits that want to try a bit of scanning to catch other medium suits and heavies, and since they start with just 10 meter scan radius and then 15 meter at max skill, a complex range extender at 25% would only add just shy of 4 extra meters. Still, I could probably live with it. As long as the Caldari scout's bonus at level 5 is about equivalent to a complex range extender. Amarr are the good guys Their way of the Commando seems right and noble
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8747	Posted - 2014.07.13 16:36:00 - [97] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: You would have to do them at the same time. I personally think 25% on the modules feels a bit weak because you also have to consider any medium suits that want to try a bit of scanning to catch other medium suits and heavies, and since they start with just 10 meter scan radius and then 15 meter at max skill, a complex range extender at 25% would only add just shy of 4 extra meters. Still, I could probably live with it. As long as the Caldari scout's bonus at level 5 is about equivalent to a complex range extender. Logistics have better stats to scan with. 45 precision, 50 profile, 15m base. So after static bonuses a range of 22.5 meters. 1 range amp gets them a little past post-skill non-cal scout range. Logistics have a can get useful values for passive scans if they want Rattati means Cal-Scout's skill bonus to range, not changing the module bonus. Check again, Rattati was asking how you felt if he changed the module bonus to coincide with the Cal-Scout skill bonus so they are both at 25%. If the Cal-Scout maxed out is only 25% but you can achieve 45% with a single module then the other scouts will easily outclass the Cal-Scout. Both need to be appromixately the same value. That's why in the Google Doc the bonus is set to 10% per level so maxed out it is 50% increase which is comparable to the 45% increase of a complex range extender. Amarr are the good guys Their way of the Commando seems right and noble
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8747	Posted - 2014.07.13 16:44:00 - [98] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Appia Vibbia wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Soooooo, in your earnest opinion, based on the document, post Charlie situation in a nutshell? The concept that the Gal logi has the best precision of all races is really the only thing I find disagreeable from the most recent numbers. Each scout can sacrifice to get under it, and unless a gal-logi is at a supply depot it's got its limitations. The scout Scanning vs scout precision attrition isn't going to make Min-Scout feel useles because most of the time they'll be able to have some of the most well rounded Scout. I think the values for the Cal range is a little too high but like the end results after using range amps. the problem of static bonuses over modules bonuses, so if we ever get around to making all bonus modules based it'll feel better. What if we fix those two things at the same time, after working so much with this data in the last few days, a 45% range increase seems indulgent. Why not 25% and then we can take down the cal radius a tad because it just needs to better in than a 4 range fit on another scout. I actually meant the 45% range amplifier module down to 25% (pulled out of a hat) And again, it could work but it makes range extenders really meaningless if you try to fit them on an Assault or Logi who wants to try and passive scan other mediums/heavies. Not that many people really play that way anyways which is why I would be for the most part ok with it. But still, off the top of my head I think a value inbetween like say 35% would be better to still make the modules a little attractive for non-scouts as well. Of course, that would mean the Cal-Scout bonus would get set to 7% per level which may look a little weird if you are at all concerned about that (don't see why you would though). Amarr are the good guys Their way of the Commando seems right and noble
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8749	Posted - 2014.07.13 17:06:00 - [99] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: i really disagree with with everything here. the fact that scouts are better at everything related to ewar seems unnecessary. wheres the division of power between classes? if scouts are supposed to be stealthy... why do they need scan range and precision bonuses as well? they have cloaks if assaults are supposed to be slayers... why do they not have the more useful scan range bonus? we need to know where the threats are, mainly other assaults and heavies if logis are supposed to be support... why do they not get the precision bonuses for revealing scouts? division of power. scouts became light assaults because of their scan range. not their precision, and not because of their scan profiles. you keep trying to force precision, profile and range bonuses within the scout class. why? being stealthy isnt about being able to see everyone on the map and finding people. its about hiding. scouts achieved that the day they got cloaks. now you want them to do everything else on top of it. if you cant be seen or scanned, you can flank targets all day long. you dont need range and precision as well. nobody knows where you are in the first place. please rethink your strategy of not dividing ewar among scouts, assaults, and logis instead of handing everything to only scouts. some of those function would be better served on other classes Because teamwork. Could an assault benefit from really good scanning? Of course! But then it becomes pretty independent, and we don't want that. We need to encourage teamwork in a team based shooter. Assaults are the best slayers but have trouble finding enemies, scouts are really good at finding enemies (that is pretty much the definition of a scout, it's not all about stealth) but have trouble slaying. They intricately work together. Logis then are a twist to the whole identification-and-slaying mechanic in that they can use tools that are even better at finding enemies than scouts but must be used actively, in addition to the Logi having trouble staying hidden. Amarr are the good guys Their way of the Commando seems right and noble
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8751	Posted - 2014.07.13 17:23:00 - [100] - Quote Let's look at using a 25% baseline, 35% baseline, and a 50% baseline (with module at 45%) 25% / 35% / 50% Base Range (m): 20 / 20 / 20 Lv 5 skills (m): 30 / 30 / 30 Lv 5 racial (m): 37.5 / 40.5 / 45 1 complex mod (m): 46.9 / 54.7 / 65.3 2 complex mod (m) : 57.1 / 71.3 / 90.8 Feel free to check my math. Personally I feel 25% gives too little progression, and it does seem that 50% is a bit indulgent. Amarr are the good guys Their way of the Commando seems right and noble

Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8751	Posted - 2014.07.13 17:25:00 - [101] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: i really disagree with with everything here. the fact that scouts are better at everything related to ewar seems unnecessary. wheres the division of power between classes? if scouts are supposed to be stealthy... why do they need scan range and precision bonuses as well? they have cloaks if assaults are supposed to be slayers... why do they not have the more useful scan range bonus? we need to know where the threats are, mainly other assaults and heavies if logis are supposed to be support... why do they not get the precision bonuses for revealing scouts? division of power. scouts became light assaults because of their scan range. not their precision, and not because of their scan profiles. you keep trying to force precision, profile and range bonuses within the scout class. why? being stealthy isnt about being able to see everyone on the map and finding people. its about hiding. scouts achieved that the day they got cloaks. now you want them to do everything else on top of it. if you cant be seen or scanned, you can flank targets all day long. you dont need range and precision as well. nobody knows where you are in the first place. please rethink your strategy of not dividing ewar among scouts, assaults, and logis instead of handing everything to only scouts. some of those function would be better served on other classes Because teamwork. Could an assault benefit from really good scanning? Of course! But then it becomes pretty independent, and we don't want that. We need to encourage teamwork in a team based shooter. Assaults are the best slayers but have trouble finding enemies, scouts are really good at finding enemies (that is pretty much the definition of a scout, it's not all about stealth) but have trouble slaying. They intricately work together. Logis then are a twist to the whole identification-and-slaying mechanic in that they can use tools that are even better at finding enemies than scouts but must be used actively, in addition to the Logi having trouble staying hidden. who here thinks scouts currently have trouble slaying? where have you been these past months? i run a basic light frame and i get 20 kills and 1 death. i cant get those number in an assault suit. (i can but its much easier in a scout suit) you get more team work through division of power. explain how a cloaked scout is not capable of finding targets? its faster than any other class and cover more ground. and we still have active scanners, so thanks to scouts having two equipment slots they clan run cloaks and active scanners. your argument doesnt make sense. scouts are independent, more so than any other class, and taking away scan range and precision doesnt change that. I am speaking about game design for how the game should be, not how the game currently is. I agree scouts are a little too good at slaying currently. Amarr are the good guys Their way of the Commando seems right and noble
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8751	Posted - 2014.07.13 17:47:00 - [102] - Quote All weapons OP doesn't make them all balanced, because there is not one single degree of OP. In fact, they can all be varying levels of OP. Amarr are the good guys Their way of the Commando seems right and noble
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8756	Posted - 2014.07.13 19:15:00 - [103] - Quote Spademan wrote: No. He came here to get the our opinion, so we could help him formulate a propose to then put forward to the community as a whole. Not to finalise the numbers for the hotfix. Swallow your pride a little bit. There is nothing wrong with other people stopping by to share their thoughts with a dev. Amarr are the good guys Their way of the Commando seems right and noble
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8766	Posted - 2014.07.14 02:01:00 - [104] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: duh, I was making my own minja fit on protofits, and got them confused. Yes, I see the correct one only needs one PG. Thanks. Maybe I'm mistaken, but it appears that fit isn't even factoring in any skills in the combat rifle fitting optimization which could squeeze out that final PG to make the fit valid? I know that's a lot of SP, but for a fully optimized fit that should be a bit of a requirement, no? Amarr are the good guys Their way of the Commando seems right and noble
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 9274	Posted - 2015.01.08 02:49:00 - [105] - Quote Ok y'all, I have been gone awhile and have accumulated a nice chunk of SP. Bought a respect when they came out and all I did was spec into the Amarr scout. That's it. Nothing else because that's the vision of Dust I always imagined, players highly skilled in just one area. Anyways to the point, I'm looking for a new toy. So far I have maxed out the scrambler rifle, scrambler pistol, shot gun, sniper rifle, nova knives, cloaks, uplinks, injectors and hives, and remote explosive. So what should my next toy be? What do y'all recommend that would be fun and somewhat viable for a scout? I'm thinking PLC, but maybe mass diver or the laser (never skilled into it since respect since it seemed very anti scout but what do I know? ) or maybe one of them nifty side arms? Amarr are the good guys Join "PIE Ground Control" for secure Amarr FW syncing and orbital support
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 9275	Posted - 2015.01.08 04:14:00 - [106] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Ok y'all, I have been gone awhile and have accumulated a nice chunk of SP. Bought a respect when they came out and all I did was spec into the Amarr scout. That's it. Nothing else because that's the vision of Dust I always imagined, players highly skilled in just one area. Anyways to the point, I'm looking for a new toy. So far I have maxed out the scrambler rifle, scrambler pistol, shot gun, sniper rifle, nova knives, cloaks, uplinks, injectors and hives, and remote explosive. So what should my next toy be? What do y'all recommend that would be fun and somewhat viable for a scout? I'm thinking PLC, but maybe mass diver or the laser (never skilled into it since respect since it seemed very anti scout but what do I know? ) or maybe one of them nifty side arms? Aero, Nice to see you back PLC is thoroughly enjoyable on a scout suit. Recommend running it with Kinz. (How is your Biotics looking?) Laser Rifle is actually pretty good on the Amarr Scout, but the overheat is a brutal punch to low EHP. That being said I think you know how to handle overheat. And as my focus is almost always SidearmsGÇª Flaylock manGÇª Flaylock. If you want to go Massdriver on a scout suit, Sinboto is a better person to talk to. I do it but not nearly effectively. Still prefer Knives and Flaylock Pfft, I practically have the entire Dropsuit Upgrades tree maxed (what are shields? ) so yeah. I frequently run kin cats because I find the new scan range stuff a bit meh and armor plates don't really fit my style much (I'm trying to avoid being seen in the first place, not too great at it yet but every death I get a little better). I've dabbled a little into each weapon but never highly. I'm looking for something that can deal high alpha against just one or two targets, and then be ready to strike back if they respawn. Keep in mind most the time I'm running with base HP (x1.25) so I'm really skeptical of say the mass driver or flaylock which seem much more attrition like. Maybe I'm thinking about it wrong. And I guess attrition isn't necessarily bad. Amarr are the good guys Join "PIE Ground Control" for secure Amarr FW syncing and orbital support
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 9822	Posted - 2015.05.14 03:32:00 - [107] - Quote Imperial Marine Light SKIN has me playing scout more often simply because it's the best Imperial Marine SKIN. Made a topic in the Features and Ideas section that basically suggests increasing Amarr movement speed and decreasing Minmatar movement speed putting them at roughly +- 0.05 m/s of Cal and Gal. Good responses so far but I suspect no one who has read it yet is a min scout. Amarr are the good guys Join "PIE Ground Control" for secure Amarr FW syncing and orbital support

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