I still think my Cal scout would be a good fit as long as there weren't Amarr scouts around, but yours is good with Amarr around.

I think that much range would be OP in pubs, but it's hard to balance things in pubs so I don't know.

Thanks for lending your expertise.

Also, If it were possible, i think doubling the speed penalty on plates for scout suits is better than making plates have a profile nerf, as that will be even more severe IMHO. The real reason people brick a scout is because they want a faster assault suit with better scans. IF they are bricking, they don't really care about profile, they just want their speed, smaller hit box, and better scans

We strategically put it here to avoid people.

All it took was 3 pages of talking about Beer before it got moved from GD!

The concept that the Gal logi has the best precision of all races is really the only thing I find disagreeable from the most recent numbers. Each scout can sacrifice to get under it, and unless a gal-logi is at a supply depot it's got its limitations. The scout Scanning vs scout precision attrition isn't going to make Min-Scout feel useles because most of the time they'll be able to have some of the most well rounded Scout.

I think the values for the Cal range is a little too high but like the end results after using range amps. the problem of static bonuses over modules bonuses, so if we ever get around to making all bonus modules based it'll feel better.

Shotty was running around in a Cal-Scan suit using 2 of the long range active scanners. In pubs that range certainly is impressively strong and I'd definitely use a similar build with the C/1-Series suit because of the utility. It just isn't the "OP FotM" fit.

I like how the amarr has the versatility for the suit you proposed, and I've used something similar on the Gal, I just don't have enough fitting allocation to have those suits. I've basically got 30 suits I use in PC. delete them after a battle, make 30 pub suits that shy away from proto in everything except sniping and AV. Then rinse and repeat.

What if we fix those two things at the same time, after working so much with this data in the last few days, a 45% range increase seems indulgent. Why not 25% and then we can take down the cal radius a tad because it just needs to better in than a 4 range fit on another scout.

There will be a proper feedback thread now that we have a pretty good proposal to discuss.

What if we fix those two things at the same time, after working so much with this data in the last few days, a 45% range increase seems indulgent. Why not 25% and then we can take down the cal radius a tad because it just needs to better in than a 4 range fit on another scout.

You would have to do them at the same time. I personally think 25% on the modules feels a bit weak because you also have to consider any medium suits that want to try a bit of scanning to catch other medium suits and heavies, and since they start with just 10 meter scan radius and then 15 meter at max skill, a complex range extender at 25% would only add just shy of 4 extra meters. Still, I could probably live with it. As long as the Caldari scout's bonus at level 5 is about equivalent to a complex range extender.

Logistics have better stats to scan with. 45 precision, 50 profile, 15m base. So after static bonuses a range of 22.5 meters. 1 range amp gets them a little past post-skill non-cal scout range. Logistics have a can get useful values for passive scans if they want Rattati means Cal-Scout's skill bonus to range, not changing the module bonus.

What if we fix those two things at the same time, after working so much with this data in the last few days, a 45% range increase seems indulgent. Why not 25% and then we can take down the cal radius a tad because it just needs to better in than a 4 range fit on another scout.

I actually meant the 45% range amplifier module down to 25% (pulled out of a hat)

i really disagree with with everything here. the fact that scouts are better at everything related to ewar seems unnecessary.

wheres the division of power between classes?

if scouts are supposed to be stealthy... why do they need scan range and precision bonuses as well? they have cloaks

if assaults are supposed to be slayers... why do they not have the more useful scan range bonus? we need to know where the threats are, mainly other assaults and heavies

if logis are supposed to be support... why do they not get the precision bonuses for revealing scouts?

division of power. scouts became light assaults because of their scan range. not their precision, and not because of their scan profiles. you keep trying to force precision, profile and range bonuses within the scout class. why? being stealthy isnt about being able to see everyone on the map and finding people. its about hiding. scouts achieved that the day they got cloaks. now you want them to do everything else on top of it.

if you cant be seen or scanned, you can flank targets all day long. you dont need range and precision as well. nobody knows where you are in the first place.

please rethink your strategy of not dividing ewar among scouts, assaults, and logis instead of handing everything to only scouts. some of those function would be better served on other classes

i really disagree with with everything here. the fact that scouts are better at everything related to ewar seems unnecessary.

wheres the division of power between classes?

if scouts are supposed to be stealthy... why do they need scan range and precision bonuses as well? they have cloaks

if assaults are supposed to be slayers... why do they not have the more useful scan range bonus? we need to know where the threats are, mainly other assaults and heavies

if logis are supposed to be support... why do they not get the precision bonuses for revealing scouts?

division of power. scouts became light assaults because of their scan range. not their precision, and not because of their scan profiles. you keep trying to force precision, profile and range bonuses within the scout class. why? being stealthy isnt about being able to see everyone on the map and finding people. its about hiding. scouts achieved that the day they got cloaks. now you want them to do everything else on top of it.

if you cant be seen or scanned, you can flank targets all day long. you dont need range and precision as well. nobody knows where you are in the first place.

please rethink your strategy of not dividing ewar among scouts, assaults, and logis instead of handing everything to only scouts. some of those function would be better served on other classes

And again, it could work but it makes range extenders really meaningless if you try to fit them on an Assault or Logi who wants to try and passive scan other mediums/heavies. Not that many people really play that way anyways which is why I would be for the most part ok with it. But still, off the top of my head I think a value inbetween like say 35% would be better to still make the modules a little attractive for non-scouts as well. Of course, that would mean the Cal-Scout bonus would get set to 7% per level which may look a little weird if you are at all concerned about that (don't see why you would though).

Assaults are getting buffed, hopefully on the regen side, allowing them to be the best at fight back to back battles.

Personally I think higher regen on the Assaults makes them too self-sufficient and downplays the teamwork aspect of the game.. A fitting bonus to Armor/Shield regen mods on the other hand I'd be OK with. But only because Shield Rechargers and Shield Energizer just cost way too much for the complex modules

eWAR is the point of the scout suit. eWAR includes everything that involves dampening, precision, and range.

This is our domain. Nobody should be better at it.

Assaults are getting buffed, hopefully on the regen side, allowing them to be the best at fight back to back battles.

Heavies are HP Kings, and DPS kings.

Commando's are deadly versatile killers, with an excellent HP pool.

Logi's get bonuses to all equipment and form the backbone of PC. Can't play PC without good logi's.

If you give eWAR to the other classes, you run the risk of making them VERY OP.

Imagine if you had a Amarr assault with range bonuses. Stack 2x precision on them and a range amp. 50m scan on an assault suit that picks up everything that isn't a scout. And he has TONS of armor.

Because teamwork.

Could an assault benefit from really good scanning? Of course! But then it becomes pretty independent, and we don't want that. We need to encourage teamwork in a team based shooter. Assaults are the best slayers but have trouble finding enemies, scouts are really good at finding enemies (that is pretty much the definition of a scout, it's not all about stealth) but have trouble slaying. They intricately work together. Logis then are a twist to the whole identification-and-slaying mechanic in that they can use tools that are even better at finding enemies than scouts but must be used actively, in addition to the Logi having trouble staying hidden.

yet you forget that if all things are OP, then nothing is OP

How would you fix the Assault suit then?

What would allow it to have a niche in the combat side of the suits?

who here thinks scouts currently have trouble slaying? where have you been these past months? i run a basic light frame and i get 20 kills and 1 death. i cant get those number in an assault suit. (i can but its much easier in a scout suit)

you get more team work through division of power. explain how a cloaked scout is not capable of finding targets? its faster than any other class and cover more ground. and we still have active scanners, so thanks to scouts having two equipment slots they clan run cloaks and active scanners.

your argument doesnt make sense. scouts are independent, more so than any other class, and taking away scan range and precision doesnt change that.

who here thinks scouts currently have trouble slaying? where have you been these past months? i run a basic light frame and i get 20 kills and 1 death. i cant get those number in an assault suit. (i can but its much easier in a scout suit)

you get more team work through division of power. explain how a cloaked scout is not capable of finding targets? its faster than any other class and cover more ground. and we still have active scanners, so thanks to scouts having two equipment slots they clan run cloaks and active scanners.

your argument doesnt make sense. scouts are independent, more so than any other class, and taking away scan range and precision doesnt change that.

yet you forget that if all things are OP, then nothing is OP

giving scouts two equipment slots made scout logis. giving them scan range bonuses made them slayers. precision is about the only thing scouts dont need as they can already see every other class of suit

if assault are supposed to be fighting, then giving them scan range makes sense as it would allow them to quickly find the next target and KEEP fighting. giving it to scouts just makes them OP when they can also cloak. closing range and using their shotguns with impunity

I'm a better slayer in my Gal Assault than I am in any of my scouts suits. Same with Amarr Assault. Min less so because I like armor over shields. MY Cal is pretty awesome though

Um. No. That is not how it works. All the rifles were OP, that didn't mean none of the rifles were OP.



Bonuses that improve play styles. Like Gallente getting a bonus to being up-close and personal. Caldari have a bonus that helps out at range. Minmatar getting a bonus that makes them good hit-and-run types, and Amarr something to go along with their heat build up reduction

what i mean is that if all weapons are considered OP then all are balanced as you can use any of them to great effectiveness. its only a problem when one thing is better than ALL other options.

because of were the scan mod sit slot wise. they already help respective races and tanking styles. caldari and minmatar can use range or precision mods without losing hp. gallente and amarr can use precision in cqc fights where scan range isnt an issue.. it works. like a shotgun gallente fit in cqc. able to see target coming around a corner.

That is a terrible, terrible thought.

If you give assaults the ability to be their own eWAR, why on EARTH would anyone run scout?

More than 1 gun can have too much power, you know.