I think the best bet at the moment is to stop offering up changes and see what Rattati has to offer for Charlie. We've had our say through the scout spreadsheet and a couple of other items, and he's indicated pretty strongly that they have plans in place. Unless Rattati asks another direct question to scouts, I'm just going to leave it as is and see what happens. Maybe it'll be a pleasant surprise...

It appears that Rattati is going to CRTL+X the range perk from both Gal and Cal and gift it to the Amarr. This will replace the Amarr's currently lackluster perk with something more useful; CalScouts will take a hit; GalScouts won't even notice. This path is not per se ideal -- as it will likely marginalize the CalScout -- but it represents a net gain for Scouts as a whole. We presently have two good options (Gal, Cal) and soon we have three (Gal, Amarr, Min), each of whom benefit from a less effective CalScout.

Though worthy of the note, the 'Assault Lite' problem benefits most from a less effective CalScout.

A tough call to make; it could work, or it could backfire.
Either way, I trust Rattati's judgement.

@Shotty regarding the Cal ... Would it be an issue if they were given the Range instead of precision? This would make them aware of threats and possible targets before they could get to them, and they still have a ton of HS to fit precision mods to pick up all but the most dampened scouts. If this were coupled by Gals change to module efficacy, and Gals had to be less tanked in order to still beat a Cal stacked with precision it would even out the playing field some no?

I find it hard to believe the Cal scout would be poor without the range bonus.

I find it hard to believe the Cal scout would be poor without the range bonus. The base scan range is pretty good and they could still augment it with range mods so long as they are willing to sacrifice damps. It will still be a powerful bonus, just more difficult to deny large areas of a map to min and Amarr scouts.

Amarr with a range bonus is preferable to a plate bonus since this is actually a bonus to a scout speciality rather than hp which should be the domain of medium and heavy suits.

Assault scouts are a seperate issue which won't be resolved without assault suit buffs or possibly harsher penalties for scouts fitting hp. If anything, removing range from Cal scouts will discourage assault scouts as the scan range is an important part of those fittings/role.

What if range was a high slot?

Cal without a bonus could still have the best range but would have to sacrifice precision.

Amarr with a 25% range boost and 2 range amps wouuld make them really good mid precision scanner and could still fit 3 dampeners and a reactive plate

min could run a precision range codebreaker (if codebreakers also moved to high) and still fit 3 dampeners.

I know on my gal scout I would then run 1 range and 1 precision on my ADV/PROTO leaving me with 1-2 low slots for kincats, reactives or cardiac.

I know not that great but like the codebreakers more scout mods need balanced out of the low slots.

Why did we rule this out last time?

You could be right. There's also a chance it'll crash-and-burn.
If we can solve the problem without taking the risk, why take the risk?

On "light armor" Amarr, apparently you and Rattati are on the same page.
What do you think of a decent bonus to Biotics?

Surprise!

It appears that Rattati is going to CRTL+X the range perk from both Gal and Cal and gift it to the Amarr. This will replace the Amarr's currently lackluster perk with something more useful; CalScouts will take a hit; GalScouts won't even notice. This path is not per se ideal -- as it will likely marginalize the CalScout -- but it represents a net gain for Scouts as a whole. We presently have two good options (Gal, Cal) and soon we have three (Gal, Amarr, Min), each of whom benefit from a less effective CalScout.

Though worthy of the note, the 'Assault Lite' problem benefits most from a less effective CalScout.

A tough call to make; it could work, or it could backfire.
Either way, I trust Rattati's judgement.

Shuffling around some of the modules could work well without changing a whole lot of things.
Like to see what Appia has to say about that moveGǪ she has a knack for finding the OPness of module shifts on all sorts of suits.

The biggest problem with changing the precision on warden is that you then make the spook OP again. I really don't mind the bonuses to mods, but at the end of the day it needs to give a bonus thats actually worth fitting. I defer to Mathpia, Haerritmitc to give us numbers.

EX: dual precision mod cal can't detect anything better than a dual precision mod min/amarr/gal.

Yes I will keep repeating myself because it continues to come up over and over again. I just don't want Ratati to totally neuter the warden. Requiring the scout roles to fit mods to get the bonus is in stark contrast to the rest of the frame bonuses, and I REAAALLLLY don't like that. HOWEVER, if thats what is required to make scouts balanced and get the FOTM crowd out of the scout roles, I am fine with that.

The only way I can see a solid balance is that if gal/cal have same number of precision/damp gal stays hidden. Min/Amarr/Cal stay hidden with +1 damp or cloak active (give all cloaks the same damp bonus again, they are friggin useless right now)

What if range was a high slot?

Cal without a bonus could still have the best range but would have to sacrifice precision.

Amarr with a 25% range boost and 2 range amps wouuld make them really good mid precision scanner and could still fit 3 dampeners and a reactive plate

min could run a precision range codebreaker (if codebreakers also moved to high) and still fit 3 dampeners.

I know on my gal scout I would then run 1 range and 1 precision on my ADV/PROTO leaving me with 1-2 low slots for kincats, reactives or cardiac.

I know not that great but like the codebreakers more scout mods need balanced out of the low slots.

The biggest problem with changing the precision on warden is that you then make the spook OP again. I really don't mind the bonuses to mods, but at the end of the day it needs to give a bonus thats actually worth fitting. I defer to Mathpia, Haerritmitc to give us numbers.

EX: dual precision mod cal can't detect anything better than a dual precision mod min/amarr/gal.

Yes I will keep repeating myself because it continues to come up over and over again. I just don't want Ratati to totally neuter the warden. Requiring the scout roles to fit mods to get the bonus is in stark contrast to the rest of the frame bonuses, and I REAAALLLLY don't like that. HOWEVER, if thats what is required to make scouts balanced and get the FOTM crowd out of the scout roles, I am fine with that.

The only way I can see a solid balance is that if gal/cal have same number of precision/damp gal stays hidden. Min/Amarr/Cal stay hidden with +1 damp or cloak active (give all cloaks the same damp bonus again, they are friggin useless right now)

Off topic:

Brazil is getting thrashed by Germany.

Score was 7-0 last time I checked.

Gonna be riots in Brazil, I guarantee it.

EDIT

PAGE 843!!!

Where Bane?

Ended at 7-1
I'm genuinely worried about what's going to happen to Brazil.

Ended at 7-1
I'm genuinely worried about what's going to happen to Brazil.

Seriously? Wow, bad time to be a German tourist...or a Brazilian national football coach...

Potential Counter Proposal:


AM - 7% Bonus to Biotics
GA - 5% Bonus to Damps
CA - 7% Bonus to Range Extenders
MN - Standing By

I can't support a change to Cal Precision that has 4 precision enhancers less effective than a Focused Scanner

Seems like the CalScout is going to take a big hit regardless. I think that swapping Precision for Range would soften the blow and permit CalScouts to continue culling the ranks of the undampened Scout.

I can't imagine Low Range / High Precision being effective for anything other than following around Heavies.

Plus, the GalLogi is under-utilized; this would give it an opportunity to step forward; if focused scanners break the game, we can always lobby to get them rebalanced.

Seems like the CalScout is going to take a big hit regardless. I think that swapping Precision for Range would soften the blow and permit CalScouts to continue culling the ranks of the undampened Scout.

I can't imagine Low Range / High Precision being effective for anything other than following around Heavies.

Plus, the GalLogi is under-utilized; this would give it an opportunity to step forward; if focused scanners break the game, we can always lobby to get them rebalanced.