This reminds me of the time we almost lost a grenade slot.

Look.. stop talking about the fu-Ucking knife bonus. None of you ******* rookie b1tches can even whatsoever use them properly, so stop making it a ******* pivotal issue.

:: Ghost pulls away a screaming Mollerz, dodging flailing Knives while doing so ::

"Mollerz, stop it! You're actually going to hurt someone this time!"

"THAT'S THE POINT"

"WHAT, YOU WANNA GET US KICKED OUT!?!? AGAIN!?!?"

:: Que drunken brawl ::

Thanks for the reasoned response Void. Makes a lot of sense on the NK side. I'd be more than happy to lose the NK bonus to the Min specifically for something else, so long as NK were buffed otherwise so they were a generally useful scout weapon. Otherwise knifers will disappear entirely, and I'd be disappointed to see an interesting playstyle die off. That does however, raise a seperate issue.

The change to having the Hacking module in the high slot would go a long way to helping the Minmatar, but removing the NK bonus from the Minmatar and replacing it with the cloak bonus doesn't provide any differentiation of playstyle from the Gal, except the Gal get's the dampening bonus passively and continuously. As an example, you can do almost exactly the same thing with a Gal (2 x damp, 2 x hack, proto cloak), but don't have to rely on 'waves of opportunity' to be effective. Under the assumption that knives are buffed when removing the specific Minmatar bonus, the Gal also becomes the preferred suit for knifing, as they won't pop up on the tac net while de-cloaking to knife. The cloak bonus, as a 'replacement' bonus, in no way maintains or increases diversity on the battlefield, and reinforces the dominance of the Gal as the best overall scout. Which is why you're seeing the 'cloaking' bonus being included as an 'additional' bonus instead.

Is it the best option? No. Is it the best option we've come up with, within the limitations that CCP has placed on us for hot-fixes? Probably.

In general, I'd love to see more diversity of scouts in both fitting and playstyle. At the moment we've got a meta that enforces an entrenched playstyle for the Cal, and sidelines the Minmatar and Amarr.

Not to be rude, but who are you?

He's my long time virtual battle warrior. Back since BF2. He finally chimed in because I told him about the possible knife bonus nerf.


Musturd knows him.

He probably has way more knife kills than you, ghost.

Hence the apprehension.

I did say I wasn't being rude.

I recognized your old corp

How's the election for you folks? Website working okay?

How's the election for you folks? Website working okay?

No.. I know. I just know how important a vouch is around here.

fun fact: Ugly killed musturd in a duel. I believe it's a standing record of 1-0 in favor of the Ugly.

I agree with Haerr on most everything except 1 huge issue. I can't stand his formatting.

How about:

Min: bonus to Cloak Damp%(not my idea)

Cal: bonus to Precision Enhancer Efficacy

Gal: bonus to Dampener Eficacy

Amarr: change to 1/5 and grant a Biotics Efficacy(replacing stamina/recharge)

Just spitballing some, at least workablr ideas.

As for misc fixes:
Please for the love of Khanid, fix the Minja PG, OR reduce Extender/Codebreaker PG.
Please, for the love of Guristas, fix the backpedaling speed, even if it's the same as strafe, GOOD.
Please for the love of Jove, give cloaks at least A BIT more dampening.

don't forget kin cat PG.

Lets' not go overboard.

Remember too that these mods go on more than Scouts.

My commando would be terribly upset if he had an exces of PG after fitting a Complex Armor Repair and a Kincat, hence why i fit a Enhanced Armor Repair.

In terms of fitting the Minja with 3kins/1 extender, an Enhanced is about as far as you can go.

Even then, that's 1.

I just want extenders dropped to about 1/3/5 PG, and Codebreakers to just NOT COST THE SAME AS ARMOR REPS. GAWD.

Yes this is without removing Passive shared, because that is not a triviality it seems.

I missed this::-((

How's the election for you folks? Website working okay?

fun fact: Ugly killed musturd in a duel. I believe it's a standing record of 1-0 in favor of the Ugly.

Really?... Uh.... One sec.
SHOTTY! QUICK GET OUT HERE! WE GOT A NON-FARTER!
BRING THE GLENFIDDICH!

@ Minja Multi Bonus

Guys, things aren't looking good for Minja's the great oppressor (CalScout).


The Fall of the CalScout

---

Precision doesn't matter if you can't accurately assess threats (positions and orientations of enemies within fine rifle range) in advance of engagement. Those of us who enjoy the hunt and appreciate a good challenge won't be running CalScout anymore. Presently, we have minja-like HP, anything can scan us, and we're slow as sh!t. We're too slow and too easily scanned to make use of high-alpha weapons (knives and shotguns), and our HP pools are insufficient to engage nearest red-dot without first getting a feel for nearby threats. When we lose the current range bonus, our survivability rates will plummet. Our usage rates will follow.

Yes, for awhile some will follow Heavies around and act like Logis. Some may even do so in PC.

Will they get kills? Not likely.
Will they earn WP? Not much.
Will they have fun? Hells naw.

CalScouts will be replaced by the much-more-useful, much-more-durable, free-orbital-every-15-min GalLogi.

---

So. When it comes to compounding Minja bonuses, Void is right to put on the brakes.
When has buffing one item and kneecapping its counter ever worked?

If we've understood Rattati's intent, the three other Scouts are looking at one racial bonus a piece. You guys are f*cking crazy if you think we can pitch a multi-bonus 'Deadpool' Minmatar.

For the record, I very much like Borimir's idea for a dampening bonus to cloak. But if you guys want that bonus, you're going to have give up Knives or Hacks and then sell it to Musturd and Moody. And you're going to have to act fast (so we can pitch to Rattati before Charlie).

@ Minja Multi Bonus

Guys, things aren't looking good for Minja's the great oppressor (CalScout).


The Fall of the CalScout

---

Precision doesn't matter if you can't accurately assess threats (positions and orientations of enemies within fine rifle range) in advance of engagement. Those of us who enjoy the hunt and appreciate a good challenge won't be running CalScout anymore. Presently, we have minja-like HP, anything can scan us, and we're slow as sh!t. We're too slow and too easily scanned to make use of high-alpha weapons (knives and shotguns), and our HP pools are insufficient to engage nearest red-dot without first getting a feel for nearby threats. When we lose the current range bonus, our survivability rates will plummet. Our usage rates will follow.

Yes, for awhile some will follow Heavies around and act like Logis. Some may even do so in PC.

Will they get kills? Not likely.
Will they earn WP? Not much.
Will they have fun? Hells naw.

CalScouts will be replaced by the much-more-useful, much-more-durable, free-orbital-every-15-min GalLogi.

---

So. When it comes to compounding Minja bonuses, Void is right to put on the brakes.
When has buffing one item and kneecapping its counter ever worked?

If we've understood Rattati's intent, the three other Scouts are looking at one racial bonus a piece. You guys are f*cking crazy if you think we can pitch a multi-bonus 'Deadpool' Minmatar.

For the record, I very much like Borimir's idea for a dampening bonus to cloak. But if you guys want that bonus, you're going to have give up Knives or Hacks and then sell it to Musturd and Moody. And you're going to have to act fast (so we can pitch to Rattati before Charlie).

@Shotty regarding the Cal

Would it be an issue if they were given the Range instead of precision? This would make them aware of threats and possible targets before they could get to them, and they still have a ton of HS to fit precision mods to pick up all but the most dampened scouts.

If this were coupled by Gals change to module efficacy, and Gals had to be less tanked in order to still beat a Cal stacked with precision it would even out the playing field some no?

I think the best bet at the moment is to stop offering up changes and see what Rattati has to offer for Charlie. We've had our say through the scout spreadsheet and a couple of other items, and he's indicated pretty strongly that they have plans in place. Unless Rattati asks another direct question to scouts, I'm just going to leave it as is and see what happens. Maybe it'll be a pleasant surprise...but the balance between scouts is intrinsically broken, so I doubt it.

What ever it is though, I'm sure it will be interesting

Now, I haven't gone through all 840+ pages of this topic, but has someone addressed the next-to-useless Gallente scout scan radius skill bonus?