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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 178 post(s) |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
2111
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Posted - 2014.06.20 22:17:00 -
[15901] - Quote
mr musturd wrote:
Lol I'm fine with the movement metrics but it would benefit more from a CPU/PG reduction to biotics per level. I'm just gonna shut up now tho until assaults are balanced all I can really get behind is a base PG increase for minmitar. Until further balance is done there's no way of really telling what minmitar needs besides PG I'd hate to change all the scouts before I know how they compete with the mediums after balance
In case you missed it, I straight up asked Rattati to boost your page PG and he straight up said no.
Reason being, methinks they intend to reevaluate module resource requirements.
Either way, he knows about the problem and he'll fix it.
So!
Are we good with the Minmatar changes?
Do you have any problems with Gallente, Caldari and Amarr?
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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Appia Vibbia
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2988
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Posted - 2014.06.20 22:22:00 -
[15902] - Quote
My outward hostility may or may not be caused by not having enough money for my prescriptions this month that's putting me in a confrontational mood because how much not having that money hurts and/or because of my dependence on those medications. But frankly, I think this whole thing is stupid. Mostly concerning that you're insisting that each Scout suit has 1 bonus to base stat and 1 bonus to modules.
well, charge multiplier is not 4x. It's somewhere between 2.25 and 2.5
If Minmatar didn't have the knife bonus, because they were buffed to be equally effective on all suits. Just like musturd said I'd put them on Gal scout (or even amarr) because of the low-slots to effectively dampen. Unless Nova Knives' charge damage was buffed in hotfix bravo.
The change in Bravo to ferroscale fitting makes the Amarr bonus actually seems like something useful, but go for the gold and give it a higher value.  A small 13hp difference between complex plates is not much AND Complex ferro still doesn't seem as good a choice over basic plate/
The min bonus makes me wonder if you're playing the same game I am as well as your understanding of the mechanics involved. As far as jumping goes I'm still searching for the specifics on it but it's tied to speed. Running jumps higher than walking, the higher your movement speed the higher you jump. The only thing I've noticed is that air speed is set to 5m/s on all suits. I know you want to pander to the "fastest suit in the game" mentality but it isn't supposed to be in the first place.
Minmatar have the highest innate speed but are out-done when it comes to speed tanking by the Gallente and Caldari.
You also need to watch out for making the jumping height from just being comical. This isn't Team Fortress 2 where scouts double jump.
And simply giving a bonus to movement speed is dangerously bad. Movement is the base that all things are based on. There isn't a way to affect movement speed without it also improving sprint and strafe. The strafe part being the most radical problem. The slight difference between 5.25 (Amarr) and 5.3 (MN Assault) is a drastic one when it comes to 1 v 1 engagements. Messing with movement in any way is going to make anyone with personal skill at the game gravitate to the suit because it will be the most effective in combat.
For the Gallente I'd like to bring up once more that as long as a single Race has a bonus to dampeners it means there's no reason to skill into any other suit if you ever want to have fun. Like, are you playing DUST right now? Because the Amarr and Minmatar are just stupid to use. I'd said I've been running Nova Knives on my fits in PC but that's because I don't even have to try anymore. My team is terrible and are going to lose anyway. The other team is almost always equally skilled to mine yet more organized. It's why I can run around with a PLC and Nova Knives in PC. Stealth is the life blood of Scout. If one suit vastly out-performs at the most basic of functions then there's no point in using anything else outside die-hard dedication and obstinateness.
Cal Scout. . . "I'm afraid of gallente scouts with 2 precision enhancers and range amps scanning the whole map" is basically what you said about my previous leaning towards give gal-scouts a bonus to range amps. But it's like half of what you're proposing is done because you're afraid to rock the boat and the other half is to just makes this all equally unbalanced.
And 8% to Precision enhancers? it's just stupid to have it at 5% or higher. 63.5m at 15db is definitely far less powerful than 98m at 24dB [:roll]
You'd just be better off saying no one gets bonus to EWAR. Period. And change the Scout base Scan Precision to 35.
IMO scrap the whole thing
Appia Vibbia for CPM1
AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com
AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
2113
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Posted - 2014.06.20 22:44:00 -
[15903] - Quote
You:
My outward hostility ...
Me:
No worries about the mood. I'd expect no less. This way is better. I know you'll be honest :-)
You:
But frankly, I think this whole thing is stupid. Mostly concerning that you're insisting that each Scout suit has 1 bonus to base stat and 1 bonus to modules.
Me:
Noted. I like to keep things in order. Bad habit. If you have alternative suggestions, shoot.
You:
well, charge multiplier is not 4x. It's somewhere between 2.25 and 2.5
If Minmatar didn't have the knife bonus, because they were buffed to be equally effective on all suits. Just like musturd said I'd put them on Gal scout (or even amarr) because of the low-slots to effectively dampen. Unless Nova Knives' charge damage was buffed in hotfix bravo.
Me:
First point is moot, second point is already addressed. NK changes vetoed; Minja bonus restored. Musturd took me to task. Glad to hear you two are on the same page.
You:
The change in Bravo to ferroscale fitting makes the Amarr bonus actually seems like something useful, but go for the gold and give it a higher value. A small 13hp difference between complex plates is not much AND Complex ferro still doesn't seem as good a choice over basic plate/
Me:
Agreed! Restored +5% in Proposal. I like it.
You:
The min bonus makes me wonder if you're playing the same game I am as well as your understanding of the mechanics involved. As far as jumping goes I'm still searching for the specifics on it but it's tied to speed. Running jumps higher than walking, the higher your movement speed the higher you jump. The only thing I've noticed is that air speed is set to 5m/s on all suits.
Me:
Gotcha. I imagine that somewhere in that code is a callback to database field where base jump value (or equivalent) is stored. May be something the SDK guys could check for us. Either way, if it exists, I'm proposing they increase it slightly. If not, no worries. It'd be a pretty cool defining characteristic if they could pull it off.
You:
I know you want to pander to the "fastest suit in the game" mentality but it isn't supposed to be in the first place.
Minmatar have the highest innate speed but are out-done when it comes to speed tanking by the Gallente and Caldari.
You also need to watch out for making the jumping height from just being comical. This isn't Team Fortress 2 where scouts double jump.
Me:
Negative, I want to fit my own "ninja" narrative. This means mobility. Believe it or not, I'm not being steered by Gav and his dream to be the fastest  . I explained myself in hopes we might gain his buy-in.
You:
And simply giving a bonus to movement speed is dangerously bad. Movement is the base that all things are based on. There isn't a way to affect movement speed without it also improving sprint and strafe. The strafe part being the most radical problem. The slight difference between 5.25 (Amarr) and 5.3 (MN Assault) is a drastic one when it comes to 1 v 1 engagements. Messing with movement in any way is going to make anyone with personal skill at the game gravitate to the suit because it will be the most effective in combat.
Me:
I wouldn't mind if skilled players gravitated to the Minmatar Scout. We're talking about a 1% change. If QA tosses it, then they toss it. But I say we try it. Plus, 1% to movement is easier to sell and easier to write than calling things out individually. (half joke)
You:
For the Gallente I'd like to bring up once more that as long as a single Race has a bonus to dampeners it means there's no reason to skill into any other suit if you ever want to have fun. Like, are you playing DUST right now? Because the Amarr and Minmatar are just stupid to use. I'd said I've been running Nova Knives on my fits in PC but that's because I don't even have to try anymore. My team is terrible and are going to lose anyway. The other team is almost always equally skilled to mine yet more organized. It's why I can run around with a PLC and Nova Knives in PC. Stealth is the life blood of Scout. If one suit vastly out-performs at the most basic of functions then there's no point in using anything else outside die-hard dedication and obstinateness.
Me:
I seriously doubt that they'll let us rewrite all Scouts as Ghosts. Especially if the Amarr can be a tanky beast and the Minmatar is attracting skilled players with its unmatched alpha strike potential and superior mobility.
You:
Cal Scout. . . "I'm afraid of gallente scouts with 2 precision enhancers and range amps scanning the whole map" is basically what you said about my previous leaning towards give gal-scouts a bonus to range amps. But it's like half of what you're proposing is done because you're afraid to rock the boat and the other half is to just makes this all equally unbalanced.
Me:
I said large sections of the map and was thinking in terms of +5% bonus (i.e. > 100 meters). That's alot of map. In hindsight, agree that the 'Ghost' can't be 'Ghost Recon' since he'll be required to dampen to cash in on his damp bonus. That said, I don't want to have to sell a big buff.
You:
And 8% to Precision enhancers? it's just stupid to have it at 5% or higher. 63.5m at 15db is definitely far less powerful than 98m at 24dB [:roll]
Me:
Presently, Cal Precision bonus is applied to base stat. We're changing that, so he'll be less inclined to run slay modules. 8% was picked because it lands us at the exact same upper end as we have now at 3cPE and 4cPE. 1cPE and 2cPE are nerfed. That's why I put the numbers side-by-side for you.
You:
You'd just be better off saying no one gets bonus to EWAR. Period. And change the Scout base Scan Precision to 35.
Me:
I can't sell that.
You:
IMO scrap the whole thing
Me:
That gets us nowhere, Appia.
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
2113
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Posted - 2014.06.20 22:49:00 -
[15904] - Quote
@ Appia
I think I covered all of your points above. I think I tweaked the proposal while your typing, so let me know if it looks better for you now that Musturd's input has been reflected. Thx for keeping me straight.
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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Appia Nappia
967
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Posted - 2014.06.20 23:55:00 -
[15905] - Quote
never called out Gav on this one. he certainly made proposal for numbers that were just silly but it's not a singular issue. But at some point you're looking for a new game instead of DUST. You're moving away from central themes. You're taking the Minmatar Scout too far away from a Scout Role and making it a completely different thing entirely.
Like, The Assault. I think it's best to use that role as a prime example because it is under-performing. We could say it is the most balanced because it has nothing that says "I absolutely need this" from it. All the Assaults are basically the same. What changes between them is the slot layout and a bonus to racial weapons. The 4 Assaults follow the theme of each race (sorta). Gallente is uo close and personal kind of suit. Armor tanking is best for close quarter engagements but at the same time so is mobility. Gallente have the slow configuration to stack plates and balance them with mobility mods, repair mods if they're confident in their teamwork or gun game, or just armor tank. DUST's personal take on weapons is High damage begets high dispersion. It's why the highest DPS weapons have the greatest dispersion . . . but they also have the sharpshooter skill to hone their weapons' abilities (I think this is broken as hell, but not the point). The racial bonus then gives them a greater advantage to their weapons.
The Caldari slot layout gears it towards alpha damage or Shield tanking. ETC
But that doesn't stop a Gal Assault from using long range weapons or an Amarr from using hit-and-run or a Cal Assault from using an AR up close. This is because they each have something they do best with, a style they favor, but they aren't so completely different that each race can't perform the role another specializes in.
The Minmatar Scout in your "hyper mobility" role is no longer a Scout. It's just a new kind of Light Frame that doesn't have a place in the game.
Your suggestions aren't balancing scouts but making each Light Frame a completely different Role.
Scouts are fundamentally tied into EWAR. the only thing you can do is make each one a better Slayer-Lite than it currently is if you don't wan't to touch it.
Secretly Appia Vibbia
If you can read my signature... I'm on the wrong alt.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
2114
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Posted - 2014.06.21 01:15:00 -
[15906] - Quote
Appia Nappia wrote:
The Minmatar Scout in your "hyper mobility" role is no longer a Scout. It's just a new kind of Light Frame that doesn't have a place in the game.
I'm proposing we increase its base movement metrics by 1% per level 5% total. The whole point being to make them ever-so-slightly better at knifing and escape/evade.
Your suggestions aren't balancing scouts but making each Light Frame a completely different Role.
Scouts are fundamentally tied into EWAR. the only thing you can do is make each one a better Slayer-Lite than it currently is if you don't wan't to touch it.
If you want to reconstruct EWAR so Scouts can be more akin to one another, we can do that. Just not at the same as we do this. Otherwise we risk setting too many variables into play at once. We tried to start with EWAR, and we failed to come to anywhere close to consensus apart from GINO, which turned out to have issues. We can return to EWAR, but first lets address some critical issues ..
Issue 1. HP > All.
And Scouts are not immune to the rule. Think you've got a good fit? Brick tank instead and give it a go; see yourself do better. I say, there's more to Dust and more to Scouts than HP. If you hate the idea of squishy Scout, then have a look at the Amarr Scout or upgrade to Biotic Assault.
Issue 2. Minmatar aren't happy.
Not a day goes by within them b*tching about being the worst Scout. No one can blame them, and this proposal can only serve to make them happier. First, CalScouts have been nerfed. Second, the Minmatar will be marginally faster at getting away if/when detected. Third, they'll have a littlePG freed up by the fitting optimization added to knives. All good things.
Issue 3. Amarr aren't happy.
They've been asking for a role since the beginning. Now we have one that we and they can be happy with.
Issue 4. GalScouts and CalScouts are too good at playing Assault.
By moving their respective EWAR bonuses from suit to EWAR module, they'll be both less effective should they choose to suit up for slaying instead of EWAR. They still have the option, they just won't be than Assault at it any more.
Issue 5. CalScouts are putting too much pressure on other Scouts.
This proposal will the job of hunting dampened Scouts slightly more difficult. Firstly, as their EWAR bonus is now tethered to module, they'll no longer be able to hunt Scouts without sufficient investment in Precision Enhancers. Running 3 and 4 enhancers yields the same precision as before, but running fewer yields less precise scans. Secondly, their potentially high-precision scan radius has been dialed back slightly, so they'll have to stay a little closer to the fray and a Scout sneaking around them has slightly better odds of evasion.
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
565
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Posted - 2014.06.21 01:27:00 -
[15907] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Roger. Moody and Ghost said they'd look things over and get back to me. Should we wait to hear their input on the current model?
Bottom line, I'm not happy unless you're happy.
I'm also not happy unless Ghost and Moody happy.
So if you three disagree, we have no proposal :-(
I think it'd be great as is, but I'm not Minmatar and I'm certainly not Musturd. So at this point, I'm hoping Moody and Ghost weigh in and either (1) agree with you or (2) convince you to let us push it forward as is or (3) you three come up with an even better solution.
TL;DR: Minmatar and NK Proposals are on hold until Moody, Musturd and Ghost reach consensus.
What about me  ?
What all Minjas are thinking as they play...
Yellow Heavy, Red Heavy...
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
565
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Posted - 2014.06.21 01:49:00 -
[15908] - Quote
Ok so my feedback (if it still matters anyways...): Min scout does need some kind of mobility bonus to justify running it. Really, it does. I don't think that making it super mobile will be a bad thing to take it away from being a scout: rather, i think it makes it more scoutly. Each scout has a certain aspect of the role as a whole that it takes on.
Gal scout is the ghost scout
Cal scout is the "scout" scout, as it can tell everyone when there will be an attack coming
Am scout is the assault scout: it is the hybrid where the scout can be used as a less durable but more speedy assault with flanking capabilities
Min scout is the ninja scout: always has been. It is the weakest in a straight up firefight HP wise, but can use its superior mobility to gain an advantage or create general carnage
Overall, while i was initially slightly dubious of shotty's proposal, i am beginning to approve of it, and i think that the min/am scout bonuses that he is proposing, esp. the bonus to movement and sprint for min, is good
I also don't like the idea of isolating knives to one suit only. They should be a scout's weapon, not just a minja weapon. I do, however, see no problem in making the min scout the most efficient with them due to its base abilities and natural ninja-like mobility.
Overall, +1 on amarr changes, as they are spot on, and +1 for min mobility, the more the better. I personally think that 2% per level to movement/strafe/sprint/jump would help the suit more than anything else in the game would, but it also necessitates a kin cat nerf, so i think 1% would be fine if thats what it comes down to. But seriously, the 2% bonus would widen its role by enough to compete with caldari scouts and gallente as well
Also, you guys don't have to keep on shitting on me, i ******* stopped talking about the kin cat bonus so **** off about that. Im just trying to help the min scout as best i can so just stop
What all Minjas are thinking as they play...
Yellow Heavy, Red Heavy...
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Appia Vibbia
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2989
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Posted - 2014.06.21 01:54:00 -
[15909] - Quote
I think you're an idiot that doesn't understand how broken this game is and how stupidly OP movement is
yes let us make Minmatar Scout the Flavor of the Month and break any ties to New Eden or even other Racial differences
Just because a value is low doesn;t mean that the effect is equal in size.
Appia Vibbia for CPM1
AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com
AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
2115
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Posted - 2014.06.21 02:03:00 -
[15910] - Quote
Gav, don't mind Appia. You've been out-voted this round by your superiors (namely Musturd). Check the proposal for changes. If you have any new ideas, please share!
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
566
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Posted - 2014.06.21 02:22:00 -
[15911] - Quote
Appia Vibbia wrote:I think you're an idiot that doesn't understand how broken this game is and how stupidly OP movement is
yes let us make Minmatar Scout the Flavor of the Month and break any ties to New Eden or even other Racial differences
Just because a value is low doesn;t mean that the effect is equal in size.
Well the min scout currently has ~5% faster strafe than the cal scout, but who is better at strafing?
Does that 5% make it OP? Tell me honestly if you think it is. The hit box on the minja is fine, aim assist is strong, so while it would help the suit in combat, it would be the same as moving from a cal scout to a min scout during this next (supposed) fix if it sees the light. Try strafing with both and tell me if you notice a huge difference, if any. The truth is you really just don't want the min scout to be viable in a competitive environment. I understand that; its fine. You have your skills set up for what you like running, and it would annoy you to have to deal with anything else that could compete with the cal scout in terms of scouts. However, for people who only have one suit period, and that one suit happens to be a minmitar scout, we really would like some viability. Now that hot fix alpha hurt us more than any other scout, we need some kind of buff to even be close to on par to any other scout in the game. Really, stop trying to ruin a possible chance of viability. Moving at a 5% faster strafe speed doesn't make you OP if you're in the WEAKEST ******* SUIT IN THE ******* GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! STOP TRYING TO MAKE IT STAY WEAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It has a functioning and large hitbox, its bonuses are just downright terrible, and the only people who can actually stand the suit are those who are ******** enough to run nova knives (no offense), or are just downright masochists.
Really, I just want my suit to be PC viable, but if you aren't willing to allow it viability because you're scared of having any form of competition to the almighty cal scout, then go ahead. Leave us to rot, and do whatever you want with your other suits, cause why not? We've always sucked, why the **** should we have a chance at being viable to run? Thats soooo stupid, and you're right I'm a ******* idiot for wanting that, I'm so very sorry for being so godamn stupid
What all Minjas are thinking as they play...
Yellow Heavy, Red Heavy...
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
566
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Posted - 2014.06.21 02:23:00 -
[15912] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Gav, don't mind Appia. You've been out-voted this round by your superiors (namely Musturd). Check the proposal for changes. If you have any new ideas, please share!
Well, what did you think of the speed bonus and then a nerf to kin cat stacking?
I never saw your response to that
What all Minjas are thinking as they play...
Yellow Heavy, Red Heavy...
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J0LLY R0G3R
And the ButtPirates
936
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Posted - 2014.06.21 02:34:00 -
[15913] - Quote
Bayeth Mal wrote:J0LLY R0G3R wrote:Been going through clips for something and thought couple of ya would get a laugh outta this. People be crazy I've had a silly idea for a video to do when the beta comes out. I wish I'd done it in alpha but oh well, just thought of it today. Might need help.
Just pop me a message whenever Beta comes around.
My Destiny Will Be Streamed
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
2116
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Posted - 2014.06.21 02:35:00 -
[15914] - Quote
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Gav, don't mind Appia. You've been out-voted this round by your superiors (namely Musturd). Check the proposal for changes. If you have any new ideas, please share! Well, what did you think of the speed bonus and then a nerf to kin cat stacking? I never saw your response to that
I'm not responding to you any more on the topic.
If you can come up with something small, unrelated to speed we'll consider it. Musturd was very insistent that the current bonuses remain as is. That means we can't add alot to them.
If you haven't yet, read the past few pages of the thread to get a feel for Musturd's angle. Whether or you agree with Musturd is immaterial at this time (so there's no point arguing w/Musturd), but I'd like you to stay involved if you can.
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
566
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Posted - 2014.06.21 02:42:00 -
[15915] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Gav, don't mind Appia. You've been out-voted this round by your superiors (namely Musturd). Check the proposal for changes. If you have any new ideas, please share! Well, what did you think of the speed bonus and then a nerf to kin cat stacking? I never saw your response to that I'm not responding to you any more on the topic. If you can come up with something small, unrelated to speed we'll consider it. Musturd was very insistent that the current bonuses remain as is. That means we can't add alot to them. If you haven't yet, read the past few pages of the thread to get a feel for Musturd's angle. Whether or you agree with Musturd is immaterial at this time (so there's no point arguing w/Musturd), but I'd like you to stay involved if you can.
Well damn....its a good idea, and you're just ignoring it....
Besides that, the only reason i specced min scout in the first place was for the speed advantage it offered, despite being worse in every other way. (it was even worse in speed too..  , but they fixed that)
Really, i was legitimately talking to someone in game today who sent me a mail after i NK'ed several people on their team, the persons name was Alliyah Smith or something like that, and we got into a convo about the min scout and even he said that it needed a buff to speed of some sort for it to compete with the cal scout, and I hadn't even broached that topic.
Just an actual anecdote to illustrate that I'm not alone in thinking they need a buff to speed^^^^
So what are the current bonus ideas? Are we still keeping the 2% bonus to speed and everything, because I'm just not clear where we stand at the moment, and id like to know before i can contribute something thats useful.
What all Minjas are thinking as they play...
Yellow Heavy, Red Heavy...
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
2116
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Posted - 2014.06.21 02:47:00 -
[15916] - Quote
Scout Polish Proposal, v3.3
* Housekeeping: Added Objective page
* Housekeeping: Added Summary page (lists all current changes)
* Housekeeping: Removed Nova Knife progression
Recapping current proposal ...
Caldari
Old - Caldari Scout: 3% to scan radius per level
New - Caldari Scout: 1% to scan radius per level
Effect - Nerf
Old - Caldari Scout: 5% to scan precision per level
New - Caldari Scout: 8% efficacy to precision enhancers per level
Effect - Nerf
Gallente
Old - Gallente Scout: 5% to scan profile per level
New - Gallente Scout: 5% efficacy to profile dampeners per level
Effect - Nerf
Old - Gallente Scout: 1% to scan radius per level
New - Gallente Scout: 3% to scan radius per level
Effect - Buff
Minmatar
Old - Minmatar Scout: 5% to Nova Knives per level
New - Minmatar Scout: 5% to Nova Knives per level
Effect - No Change
Old - Minmatar Scout: 5% to Hack Speed per level
New - Minmatar Scout: 5% to Hack Speed per level
Effect - No Change
Old - N/A
New - Minmatar Scout: 1% bonus to movement rates per level
Effect - Buff
*Add NK Fitting Optimization
Amarr
Old - Amarr Scout: 10% to Stamina Regen per level
New - Amarr Scout: 10% to Stamina Regen per level
Effect - No Change
Old - Amarr Scout: 10% to Stamina Pool per level
New - Amarr Scout: 10% to Stamina Pool per level
Effect - No Change
Old - N/A
New - Amarr Scout: 5% efficacy to ferroscale and reactive plates per level
Effect - Buff
Discuss 
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
2116
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Posted - 2014.06.21 02:50:00 -
[15917] - Quote
@ Gav
I understand that you're hard headed.
Please understand that I'm busy.
If you bring it up again I will hide your threads.
If you think of another angle, I'm all ears.
But no more about speed.
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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mollerz
3672
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Posted - 2014.06.21 02:51:00 -
[15918] - Quote
Why do people still buy the >12ms will break the game lie?
If >12ms "breaks the game" it is time to hire programmers that know their ******* from a hole in the ground. ******* finger sniffers.
Your Welcome
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
2078
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Posted - 2014.06.21 03:02:00 -
[15919] - Quote
mollerz wrote:Why do people still buy the >12ms will break the game lie?
If >12ms "breaks the game" it is time to hire programmers that know their ******* from a hole in the ground. ******* finger sniffers.
The problem is they would just stick those programmers onto the Legion project, and we would still get boned.
I enjoyed your comment very much though.
This is how a minja feels
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
567
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Posted - 2014.06.21 03:08:00 -
[15920] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:@ Gav
I understand that you're hard headed.
Please understand that I'm busy.
If you bring it up again I will hide your threads.
If you think of another angle, I'm all ears.
But no more about speed.
Well, one of my original ideas which is very OP when i first thought about how to buff the min scout would be to just increase the damage it does to targets under 10 meters away (or 7 or 5) and replace the NK bonus with that so that it doesn't screw over min scouts who like to shotgun or run speed tanked assault smg suits (I'm guilty of both)
Idk if this helps as i realize its ridiculously OP, but my idea was to make the min scout have more versatility in the ways it could gank people, as i found that it was really good at getting into other peoples faces and killing before they could react.
It also emphasizes the glass cannon role a bit more, which i like, and expands its effectiveness as well
just another thought if you really are looking for ideas.....
Also, I'm not hard-headed, as you so bluntly put it, Im just stunned that you are being so obnoxiously stubborn in your refusal to acknowledge any of my points
What all Minjas are thinking as they play...
Yellow Heavy, Red Heavy...
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
2117
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Posted - 2014.06.21 03:09:00 -
[15921] - Quote
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:
Also, I'm not hard-headed, as you so bluntly put it, Im just stunned that you are being so obnoxiously stubborn in your refusal to acknowledge any of my points
:: HIdes Posts ::
* Also, if you p*ss me off I'll hide your posts. Forgot to mention that earlier.
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
567
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Posted - 2014.06.21 03:11:00 -
[15922] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:
Also, I'm not hard-headed, as you so bluntly put it, Im just stunned that you are being so obnoxiously stubborn in your refusal to acknowledge any of my points
:: HIdes Posts :: * Also, if you p*ss me off I'll hide your posts. Forgot to mention that earlier.
Well, I tried to explain myself in a rational manner, and i guess it just didn't work. Whatever man
Also, I'm literally just trying to help, so there is no reason to be a douche, but cool I'm blocking your **** too cause i don't want to ******* read it
What all Minjas are thinking as they play...
Yellow Heavy, Red Heavy...
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Llast 326
An Arkhos
3738
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Posted - 2014.06.21 03:15:00 -
[15923] - Quote
I hide my own posts
It helps me get ready for the onset of dementia
KRRROOOOOOM
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
567
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Posted - 2014.06.21 03:17:00 -
[15924] - Quote
How do you hide posts?
What all Minjas are thinking as they play...
Yellow Heavy, Red Heavy...
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LeGoose
SAM-MIK
General Tso's Alliance
361
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Posted - 2014.06.21 04:38:00 -
[15925] - Quote
This is how I envision Shotty talking at Gav right now.
Click it! I dare you...
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
2119
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Posted - 2014.06.21 04:45:00 -
[15926] - Quote
Down to just a handful of tweaks ...
1) Amarr: Add Bonus +5% efficacy to ferroscale / reactive (buff)
2) Minmatar: Add Nova Knife fitting optimization to skilltree (buff)
3) Gallente: Swap 5% bonus to profile for 5% efficacy to dampeners (nerf)
4) Gallente Range bonus changed from 1% to 3% (buff)
5) Caldari: Range bonus changed from 3% to 1% (nerf)
6) Caldari: Swap 5% bonus to precision for 8% efficacy to enhancers (nerf)
Thoughts?
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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Brokerib
Lone Wolves Club
1400
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Posted - 2014.06.21 05:20:00 -
[15927] - Quote
mollerz wrote:Why do people still buy the >12ms will break the game lie?
If >12ms "breaks the game" it is time to hire programmers that know their ******* from a hole in the ground. ******* finger sniffers.
I'm curious about this actually. We've been told that more than 11m will break the game, but I'd like to have tha confirmed by the new management. At the time is sounded like bullshit, and it still sounds like it now.
As to the proposals for the Mini...how about this.
Nova knife bonus stays as it is.
Inate hack speed goes to 1.25, and the suit bonus is removed.
Replace with 5% biotic module efficiency per level.
This means, for Kin Cats:
First module = 15.75%
Total = +15.75%
Speed = 9.6m/s
Second module = 13.69%
Total = +31.59%
Speed = 10.9m/s
Third module = 8.99%
Total = +43.42%
Speed = 11.9m/s
Minmatar becomes the undisputed fastest of all scouts, and has the highest base hack speed of any suit. Plus dragon punch.
Ties in with the module efficency changes for the others, but does compete directly with the Amarr inate stam bonus.
Knowledge is power
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Nrabatar Zorig
Nos Nothi
100
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Posted - 2014.06.21 06:18:00 -
[15928] - Quote
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:How do you hide posts?
Click on the poster's name, there's a button that reads "Hide Posts". What happens that you will still see that the poster has made a reply somewhere, but you can't see its contents unless you unhide the posts again.
Also, I just realized that Jaceon is Havohej, we talked for a while in NN in-game. He runs [url=backstage.eve-inspiracy.com[/url] Backstage, the prime OOC forum for EVE RP and added the DUST section in there partially due to my influence.
He's a cool guy overall.
Shaman Zorig of the Vherokior Tribe
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
14731
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Posted - 2014.06.21 10:22:00 -
[15929] - Quote
Things get so vicious in balance discussions... 
You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
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Spademan
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
1963
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Posted - 2014.06.21 12:09:00 -
[15930] - Quote
Looks like I missed the bar fight.
@Shotty: Looking through the proposal.
I see Appia's point (Scary, I've agreed twice) when she says you're trying to make each scout a different role. When you look at Commando's, Sentinels, Assaults and Logi's, they all follow a clear theme. Scouts currently don't, don't in your proposal, and I don't believe they ever have. Bar maybe pre 1.8 when Gallente and Minmatar Scouts both had the dampening bonus.
I think maybe that's the issue, what's our over arching theme? What do we all have in common that we can do in different ways?
Assaults and Commandos have weaponry bonuses, that's their theme, Killers.
Logi's have equipment bonuses, they're Support.
Sentinels have resistance bonuses, they're Bullet Sponges.
What about us? Our bonuses are so radically different, and I don't think we can balance all scouts against each other and other suits when we don't follow a pattern.
We're the only suit that has so much differences in suit bonuses.
Could we all be ghosts?
Recon perhaps?
Sidearm assassins?
I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special.
Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
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