In that case, no I haven't. In all honesty, I've given up on RP for DUST completely, as well as logging into the game in general. I only write fiction now when I feel like it, and I don't really see how it would make any difference if a single EVE roleplayer joined the crowd.

His NN alt is Rightwing. You should definitely meet him. He's read your work.

@ Llast
I believe I can sell this to musturd. He'll be allover the movement improvements. That, and there is very little if any actualized loss to high-end knifing (as HP pools only climb so high).

Edit: I've cleaned up the proposal a 'bit. The latest versions are in right-most position. Let me know what you think.

@ All
Proposal link is now on the front page for easy access. If you've yet to weigh in, please do so. The more brains and feedback we get on this the better. o7

Why would anyone run a minmitar to knife if you took the bonus? I'd use gallente for the passive reps, easier fitting, and the ability to properly damp. I didn't give the whole doc a look yet but don't take my knife bonus.

Hey Musturd!
You've gotta see the metrics before you make that call ...

+1% to sprint speed and strafe speed per level
+4% to walk speed and jump distance per level
+5% codebreaker efficacy per level
+CBs switched to highs

* Less backpedal bullsh*t.
* Better jump+charges.
* Better evasive maneuvers / top speeds.
* More ninja. Less vanilla. Still the best at knifing.

As for knives themselves, everyone will hit at a good enough base to get the job done (w/proficiency)...

* Std) 90 ---> 100
* Adv) 150 ---> 175
* Pro) 200 ---> 225

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The plan was to give you guys the tools you need to get in and get out faster, detected or not.
So ... do you think this could this work?

[
Of course it could work but honestly there's no need the suit just needs more PG and assault suits need proper balance before I could really get behind any scout changes. Idk how I feel about CB in the highs its nice in theory but that would put you at 125shields on a speed hack fit I mean you could always slap some armor in the lows but that's just not my playstyle

Fair enough. The PG is probably gonna happen through different means. I expect them to add fitting optimization to NK skill tree, and there's a chance they'll move PG extenders to highs as well. Maybe Logibro will dial back resource req's on NKs as well ... no telling.

Anyhow, I'm sure not gonna force more ninja on the minmatar if the pros don't want it!

If Moody and Ghost are in agreement with you, then that's that. The hacking bonus will be rewired as your "built-in" bonus and the nova knife bonus as your derived bonus. I will say that Moody and Ghost have both said separately that NKs aren't useful in PC due to hit-detection being unreliable in PC...that they really only use them in pubs. I took this to mean they'd prefer something else.

So ... if Moody and Ghost both favor the proposed changes, might you be willing to change your mind?

Also with the increase to strafe on minmitar you proposed its would likely give it some insane strafe speed it is already extremely proficient at out strafing any suit. The knife bonus and my strafe are why I love the suit just worried if it was any faster it would break hit detection

I was careful to keep that bonus as low as possible (only 1% per level). You're looking at a maximum of around 0.25 m/s change in strafe and around a 0.5 m/s change in sprint.

My thinking is we could put these small numbers through and immediately undue them if it breaks you guys. We'd still keep the movement and jump at 4% so you'll still be ninjas and less screwed by backpedalers.

EDIT: at the end of the match, 0.H won but I sent a mail telling him I got more NK kills than him

I run IshNoKs in PC. They've been treating me well when I'm on the offensive trying to take out defenders

I was careful to keep that bonus as low as possible (only 1% per level). You're looking at a maximum of around 0.25 m/s change in strafe and around a 0.5 m/s change in sprint.

My thinking is we could put these small numbers through and immediately undue them if it breaks you guys. We'd still keep the movement and jump at +4% per level (20% total) so you'll still be ninja-like and less screwed by backpedalers.

I know you remember mario'ing heavies in Chrome.

here come a crap ton of posts now that my keyboard is clean.

but just to start you can mario a heavy with just a single kin-cat

Scout Polish Proposal (v3) updated in response to Musturd's feedback.

* Minmatar bonus to sprint and strafe traded for innate hack bonus
* Minmatar bonus to codebreakers traded for derived NK bonus
* Minmatar NK bonus restored, but reduced (see table for details)
* Minmatar prereq (move CBs to Hi) eliminated
* Amarr derived bonus to light armor decreased from +5% to +4%

Discuss.

Shotty I know I'm being a pain in the ass but to keep minmitar the best Nova knifer the damages need to stay as is on all knives making them still useful but not on par with minny. Its kinda the same as a SCR you can use it on any suit but to use it to Max potential you need amarr assault

If base knife damage would be increased I would definitely go Cal or gal just for better tacnet or being invisible. Idk how to approach an overall damage increase IMO it would hurt minmitar in the long run due to their lack of passives and not being able to damp and have speed

Musturd, knives get scouts killed if they aren't Minmatar. Improving knives would improve gameplay, not to mention address disparity between NK and SG usage among Scouts. We can't keep Knives bad indefinitely. Rattati will eventually buff them; we're just one step ahead of him. Remember the Logibro thread.

Minmatar will absolutely remain the best at knifing. The bonuses to base movement and jump would be a huge help and alot of fun (right?). We could even try to increase derived bonus from 10% to 15%, but then we're asking for a NK buff which is harder to sell. Frankly, you're not looking at any realistic difference in damage as is ... the numbers barely move at all.

---

Work with me, Musturd. There are alot of unhappy Minmatar Scouts out there and I'm trying to make things better for them. Just because you're awesome doesn't mean they don't need love. Give us love, Musturd.

We're focusing on non-EWAR improvements this round; too much can go wrong. We spent a whole month in that bowl of spaghetti. In the end though, I don't think we'll be able to help the Minmatar e invisible so we should focus on what we can do for him

My original proposal focused on improving your evasives and sprint speed. You said yourself, "you can scan me, but then you'll have to catch me" ... that was actually the inspiration behind the original workup (it wasn't Gav).

That said, I can't give you 5 bonuses and everyone else 2. So make up your mind d*mnit :-)

knives are not useless on other scouts shotty with proto knives and proficiency you can do plenty of damage without being minmitar you just have to invest a decent amount of sp. Prof5 with proto knives you'd do over 1k damage with a charge even if your not minmitar

They certainly aren't good. I'm at Pro(4) and landed a double charge right in the back of a Pro GalSentinel. Followed up with second slash and which must've missed as I was dead before I could do anything else. That's reality for non-Minmatar.

Proficiency 5 Ishnoks (Non-Minja)
Swipe - 230
2x Swipe - 460
Charged Swipe - 920
Charged 2x Swipe - 1840

In my book, the more Scouts use knives the more Scouts will have fun playing Dust. Either way, I'll revisit the numbers and dial 'em back a 'bit to widen the gap between Minmatar and non-Minmatar.

May I ask when this happened? Ever since this last hotfix I've had serious trouble hitting both knives idk what it is but something feels different and I can't put my finger on it. With prof5 and minmitar it takes me a full charge and a quick slash to down a gal sentinel and if I miss 1 knife in any of the engagement I die instantly. Its not much different for the minmitar I've knived in my gallente and it works I do have prof5 tho and I run a damage mod but its not that bad I just prefer shields instead of armor but tbh I'd probably do it better in a gallente

It was during Hotfix Alpha. And I was running two complex damage amps!

Anyhow, I've updated the Proposal and vetoed Nova Knife changes.
We'll let Rattati and Logibro handle that however they deem appropriate.

Minmatar Scout v3.1

* Restored order to Minmatar (same NK and Hack as present).
* Added 1% bonus to all movement metrics; let the kids be ninjas, Musturd.
* Added new Prerequisite: Add Fitting Optimization to NK Skilltree.

I also would like knives to stay the same, for whatever its worth.

Otherwise, I am nervous about so many changes. I don't feel like I can see the effects of everything, but I still have to finish looking over everything (of course I went right to the minmatar).

On another note, I am thinking about taking my passive SP and going Minmatar Commando (what is the name for those?). Wanted to see what I could do with that. Maybe make it some mutant minja turtle or something, and see if I can't find a way to get back in the game on my own terms instead of waiting for the Minja love that may never happen (CCP hates us).