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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
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Posted - 2014.03.13 01:43:00 -
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Asha Starwind wrote:Llast 326 wrote:Asha Starwind wrote:Varoth Drac wrote:@ Bardas - You don't need a matari scout to run proto knives.
Only real issue I have with 1.8 is this - you can't use a cloak without level 4 or 5 in a scout suit. Not a problem for me but what about a new player. You would have to grind through a massive amount of sp before you could use your light frame/scout suit as it was intended. I know we've been doing ok without cloaks so far but I'm not sure a new player would see it that way when we are all running around with invisibility.
As for me, I really don't know what to do with my dropsuit sp refund.
I'm currently minmatar. I love the speed and the shield tanking (hit and run) and would love a hacking bonus. Trouble is I'm not such a bit fan of the look. Proto gal scout looks much more awesome as do the new suits. Also I love scanning so the cal or gal bonus would be awesome. Using protofits, on paper the gal scout seems best as long as I don't mind loosing a percent or two speed with plates.
Arrgh I just don't know! That's the same conclusion I've come to, that and the Cal Scout is a PITA to fit feels like CCP shorted it 6-8ish pg, other than that scan precision an adv gal scout can rival a pro cal scoul in all areas, still playing around with the amarr scout don't really know what I think of it. The Cal Scout is damn close to the Min scout in fitting efficiencyGǪ I meant to say that about the min scout, changed it to what I think about the Cal scout
i just don't get how the min scout has less PG than the cal scoutGǪ.but whatever. no proto knives for poor little Gavr1lo 
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Posted - 2014.03.13 02:02:00 -
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Do you guys know if arum is transferable? I wanna get kincaats to 5 and PD to 5 and electronics to 4, and need ~2 mil SP for it. However, i could only afford the 4k arum pack, and need 1k more arum, so if it is, ill trade 5 mil isk for 1k arum
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Posted - 2014.03.13 22:56:00 -
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Quil Evrything wrote:IgniteableAura wrote:Also I know scout is going to be the FOTM and I just won't be able to take that.  Dont just feel bad about it.. DO something about it! Put together a caldari scout hunter, and give them a New Eden Welcome  Heck, make a new alt that is passive-SP enabled, and we can put together a new corp: "New Scout Welcoming Committee" I actually have an alt for just this purpose: "Caldari Scout Hunter"  I think he's collected 1m SP so far. Should be a good start to try it out.
New Scout Welcoming CommitteeGǪ..I like it, i like it a lot
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Posted - 2014.03.14 23:06:00 -
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Brokerib wrote:Wow, the cloak actually looks pretty cool. Just dropping the chevron/health will be useful for travel, and it doesn't look like the shimmer will be massively noticeable, particularly if you're in an area with alot of cover.
Will be interesting to see how the transition to weapons works. If I can switch directly to my main weapon with no significant delay (same speed as weapon swaps now), then putting a NK in the light slot could be very effctive for kills out of cloak.
where did they release info on the cloak? if i could get a link id really appreciate it
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Posted - 2014.03.16 03:39:00 -
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BARDAS wrote:Since it looks like we are probably going to get 2 million SP or 4 million for people with Omegas on I'm thinking its more viable to completely switch to Gallente Scout in 1.8 as I will have enough to instantly get Proto plates with plenty to spare. I'm torn though on sticking with Minmatar as it has treated me well all this time and dat' hacking bonus. Used to run knives more than I do now, but i'm thinking it may be more viable with cloak.
Can't decide. Anyone feel like listing the pro's and con's between these two suits for me to help with my decision? I eventually plan on getting both though not immediately as I want to get that proto cloak off the bat so only picking one suit for proto right away.
Minja
Pros
-more movement speed
-less vulnerability from hacking
-knives will be the only way to 1v1 a heavy
-best jump height
-good all around biotics
-most badass of all scouts
Cons
-**** poor fitting capabilities means you'll probably have to not use your second equipment slot
-Slot loadout forces you to shield tank
-lowest HP of all scouts
-bonuses are highly situational
-you WILL be one shot by scrambler rifles
-shotguns insta bank you as well
-hard mode scout, but greater rewards if you don't mind not having RE's or an active scanner
Gallente
Pros
-Incredible fitting potential lets you fit whatever you want without fear
-Better slot load out
-can achieve greater sprint speed than any other scout while maintaining strong tank and having weapons
-innate armor repair
-best bonuses
-is able to survive shotgun blasts with a single plate
Cons
-slightly less move speed, stamina, and jump height
-lower hack speed
-not as badass
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Posted - 2014.03.17 00:15:00 -
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all these people whining about the amarr scout are starting to annoy meGǪ.
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Posted - 2014.03.17 01:23:00 -
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True Adamance wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:all these people whining about the amarr scout are starting to annoy meGǪ. When you provide evidence and numerical proof your are right perhaps we might revise our position. As of yet you have not and your argument lacks substance except that is of "I AM A SCOUT SO....."
i have not yet provided an argument, therefore, your entire post is null.
If you do want an argument, however, 3x kin cats, 1x profile damper, 2x extenders, adv cloak, proto quantum scanner, shotgun and flay lock. I will be running it in 1.8. It, quite literally, is better than a minmitar fit because it can fit nice things, like a cloak and proto scanner. its fast, has higher HP than a gallente, is well dampened, and has nice things like equipment and weapons. Stamina too, which is>minmitar stamina
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Posted - 2014.03.17 01:48:00 -
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Appia Vibbia wrote:Brokerib wrote:True Adamance wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:all these people whining about the amarr scout are starting to annoy meGǪ. When you provide evidence and numerical proof your are right perhaps we might revise our position. As of yet you have not and your argument lacks substance except that is of "I AM A SCOUT SO....." Spreadsheets dont make a suit. The Minmatar scout, on paper, looks terrible. But it performs in the field. The Amarr scout, to my eye, looks like it will excel in specific areas while the slot layout allows it to perform reasonably across the board. Particularlary as scouts now have an appropraite baseline to work from (lowered scan profile, higher scan precision and scan radius). You may not agree, and that's fine. But making selective comparisons and calling it evidence doesn't make you right either. But their bonus isn't fair! Minmatar get 2 bonuses! Caldari get 2 bonuses! Gallente get 2 bonuses! Amarr gets 1! It isn't fair, Brokerib! Honestly though, the Amarr Scout seems like the Mario/Human of the Scouts. Balanced around being average and not excelling at anything "Scoutly." It can basically do anything almost as well as the specialized suit. It's the Light-Medium hybrid suit. Rather than complaining about balanced it is just really dull and no incentive to skill into it other than Racial Role Playing reasons
3x kincats, 1x damp, 2x shields, shotgun, and flay lock with a proto quantum scanner say otherwise
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Posted - 2014.03.17 02:04:00 -
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Appia Vibbia wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:
3x kincats, 1x damp, 2x shields, shotgun, and flay lock with a proto quantum scanner say otherwise
Um, what? You just agreed with me there. It has no theme of it's own. It can mimic other because of CPU/PG and slot layout but it lacks anything unique. and with minmatar's new released stamina regen stat this won't have the stamina+regen to keep up despite have a high base speed and base stamina. if you want speed+shield tank. It is the best all-rounder suit. No theme, no specialization. It can jsut do everything fairly well. it's the second best at everything. which is really powerful, but so very boring in a class that is about specialization.
wait, what are these newly released stats? can anyone show me where they got them?
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Posted - 2014.03.17 02:08:00 -
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Brokerib wrote:Appia Vibbia wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:
3x kincats, 1x damp, 2x shields, shotgun, and flay lock with a proto quantum scanner say otherwise
Um, what? You just agreed with me there. It has no theme of it's own. It can mimic other because of CPU/PG and slot layout but it lacks anything unique. and with minmatar's new released stamina regen stat this won't have the stamina+regen to keep up despite have a high base speed and base stamina. if you want speed+shield tank. It is the best all-rounder suit. No theme, no specialization. It can jsut do everything fairly well. I think you might be right actually Appia. It's a solid suit, but doesn't have a specific flavour, aside from the relentless stamina angle. The Amarr scout is by no means terrible, and could be very effective when fitted apprporaitely. But it is dull. And scouts shouldn't be dull. How about, just to give it some flare, +5% damage per level to plasma cannon? I know it's not an Amarr weapon and all, but that would certainly make it stand out  Though in all seriousness, I think the stam bonus should be changed to +5% to max/+10% to regen per level. Their regen rate has gone from the best to the worst because of the max stam increase, and that was one of the selling points of the suit to my mind. I'd also like to see a 0.2 base speed increase for all scouts, so the Amarr are clearly faster than the Mini Assault while retaining the current speed heirarchy.
yeah i misread what Appia was saying lolGǪi thought she was saying it was worse than every other scout suitGǪ.but i agree with Brokerib here for the bonus, it does need more than 5%. Also, instead of a .2 increase, make it a % increase so that the tiny advantage the minmitar has isn't made even smaller
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
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Posted - 2014.03.17 02:10:00 -
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Brokerib wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:Appia Vibbia wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:
3x kincats, 1x damp, 2x shields, shotgun, and flay lock with a proto quantum scanner say otherwise
Um, what? You just agreed with me there. It has no theme of it's own. It can mimic other because of CPU/PG and slot layout but it lacks anything unique. and with minmatar's new released stamina regen stat this won't have the stamina+regen to keep up despite have a high base speed and base stamina. if you want speed+shield tank. It is the best all-rounder suit. No theme, no specialization. It can jsut do everything fairly well. it's the second best at everything. which is really powerful, but so very boring in a class that is about specialization. wait, what are these newly released stats? can anyone show me where they got them? Down the bottom here Gav. http://dust514.com/news/blog/2014/03/dropsuits-of-uprising-1.8/
thanks
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Posted - 2014.03.17 04:23:00 -
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Appia Vibbia wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:
yeah i misread what Appia was saying lolGǪi thought she was saying it was worse than every other scout suitGǪ.but i agree with Brokerib here for the bonus, it does need more than 5%. Also, instead of a .2 increase, make it a % increase so that the tiny advantage the minmitar has isn't made even smaller
Ugh. there's like a 3 minute delay when posting on the DUST514 forums for me right now. Not for other sites of forums thoug   There's still this magical, mystical problem with processing speeds that stops scouts from going faster than 11.11m/s without breaking the game. I think you;d need to remove the kincat or biotics skill bonus before we can adjust the speed of the scouts. Too tired to run the numbers of what you could modify it too, but the only other option that that is to reduce the sprint modifier from 1.4 to something less.
or just change biotics skill to movement speed insteadGǪi think that'd work
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
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Posted - 2014.03.17 22:48:00 -
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so, after theory crafting some min fits and then some caldari, iv come to realize two things. One, the caldari does not need that much Pg. You are just encouraging a light assault. Two, shield extender pg needs to be lowered and CPU raised. I also made a thread about this, but yeah its pretty sad right now that you can't viably fit kin cats and extenders together
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
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Posted - 2014.03.17 23:00:00 -
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icdedppul wrote:yeah ran into the stupid kinkat extender issue when I was doing min scout fittings and realized I got an extra PG to fit a cloak onto an Adv suit..
horray, atleast with the stamina buff I can probably drop the cardio
don't even bother with cardio, i never need it really. But honestly, I'm thinking 60/6 CPU and Pg at proto for extenders. Sound fair?
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
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Posted - 2014.03.19 01:07:00 -
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you know what games was ****? fire emblem for gameboy.
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
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Posted - 2014.03.19 02:49:00 -
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Ghost Kaisar wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:you know what games was ****? fire emblem for gameboy. I destroyed Sacred Stones. My team was ungodly.
dude thats the one I have!!! I used the ******* summoners or whatever and maxed out all their skills with all the stuff you could buy from stores and ****. Also, the critical was badass in that game. Ah, good times
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
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Posted - 2014.03.19 02:51:00 -
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yo jerrmy quick question-u still in TRA1LBLAZERS? Every time i look for ppl to squad with your not in corp 
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
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Posted - 2014.03.19 02:57:00 -
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Appia Vibbia wrote:I liked the one with Eliwood the best for portable systems
i might have had that one tooGǪi was a little obsessed
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
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Posted - 2014.03.19 02:58:00 -
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jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:yo jerrmy quick question-u still in TRA1LBLAZERS? Every time i look for ppl to squad with your not in corp No, because it wasnt active at all Plus friend invited me to a corp.
you left at the wrong time haha. we got 5 recruits in the past 3 days, and each except one is really active
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
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Posted - 2014.03.21 03:37:00 -
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does anyone think that this fit should work and that module costs need to be adjusted?
http://www.protofits.com/fittings/index/0/1583
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Posted - 2014.03.21 03:48:00 -
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Master Smurf wrote:Use the skill tree in the top left hand side to apply the necessary skills.
i did, its 4 pg over and like 100 cpu under. Why is it 4 pg over if I'm only using specialist weapons, a basic cloak, a non-pg intensive equipment, a GODDAMN SPECIALIST FLAYLOCK, and shield mods (supposedly cpu intensive)? I only fit two kin cats, which should be fine since i fit a 0 pg item in my third low. This is why shield extenders need proto fitting stats changed to 60cpu, 6 pg (also perfectly balanced with armor plate fitting stats). Also, can anyone tell me why the caldari suit has more Pg than minmitar?
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Posted - 2014.03.21 12:48:00 -
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Ghost Kaisar wrote:You need to share the fitting. Copy Pasta doesn't work. Go into the Fitting tab, and click detailed fits. There should be a share button. Copy paste the link it provides. You're welcome.
http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/573
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Posted - 2014.03.22 03:46:00 -
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Ghost Kaisar wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:You need to share the fitting. Copy Pasta doesn't work. Go into the Fitting tab, and click detailed fits. There should be a share button. Copy paste the link it provides. You're welcome. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/573 Found your problem. Why are you running a Duvolle Quantum Scanner?!? You're a SCOUT. You have 20m Base scan 24/7 in 1.8. Dump that, and save the 9 PG on that thing. You could even upgrade to a ADV cloak and throw on a Compact hive.
i run scanners for my squad and they run all the other logi gear when i play with my regular squad
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Posted - 2014.03.22 20:57:00 -
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Master Smurf wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:
i run scanners for my squad and they run all the other logi gear when i play with my regular squad
Pass that job to a Gal Logi - you can still spot for him and tell him where to scan.
i generally don't run with FoTMers
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Posted - 2014.03.23 02:19:00 -
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i just realized something--this scanner spin nerf is actually an indirect nerf to scouts--because passive scan is so broken, scouts will have almost no stealth advantage over any other suit
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Posted - 2014.03.23 02:45:00 -
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LeGoose wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:i just realized something--this scanner spin nerf is actually an indirect nerf to scouts--because passive scan is so broken, scouts will have almost no stealth advantage over any other suit Please explain this. How could this be an indirect Nerf to scouts? We no longer have scanners that are impossible to beat that can see 360-¦ instead of the 60-90-¦ they are intended to see. I'm not sure how passive scans are broken. They seem to be working as intended at the moment. Also many of us do not rely on active scanners as they give our prey a giant message letting them know we are in the area.
the fact that other suits will be able to have equal near equal e-stealth to scouts. currently, with precision at 3 and range at 4, i can't scan a heavy suit 13 yards away
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Posted - 2014.03.23 14:24:00 -
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icdedppul wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:the fact that other suits will be able to have equal near equal e-stealth to scouts. currently, with precision at 3 and range at 4, i can't scan a heavy suit 13 yards away your doing something wrong.. there is a bit of delay for scanning for some reason so if running a min scout you will run right over the hvy before it shows up on radar but other wise passives work fine(beware the ghost Hvy's some people do damp them) I pick up proto scouts who havent skilled up there damps yet with 1 complex precision (atleast I assume they havent cause I was picking them up and you only should need lvl 3 in damps after getting proto scouts, will ask next time I pick up a proto scout suit) but yes the extra range is key there, things are so much easier on the G suit then the M suit
yeah- i actually ran into a ghost heavy before that didn't show up on active scans, and i don think I'm going m suit in 1.8, just because it can't be a knifer due to low fitting reqs, and amarr is a better speed tanker with more HP that can fit a cloak. Im probably going cal, just because min will not be able to fit a cloak on any of its fits, and cal will. though gal may just be the best, i only have points in shields, biotics and dampening
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Posted - 2014.03.25 02:21:00 -
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best fitting for a cal scout--1 kincat, 1 PD, 4 shield extenders, 1 adv cloak, 1 compact hive, proto creodron specialist shotgun, specialist flaylock. I believe it fitsGǪ.
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Posted - 2014.03.26 03:35:00 -
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Scout Registry wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:This patch is equal parts fun and rage inducing.
Bugs aside, what would you change?
shotgun hit detection, though i suppose that is a bug
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Posted - 2014.03.27 01:32:00 -
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so who here specced minmitar in 1.8?
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Posted - 2014.03.27 01:54:00 -
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:so who here specced minmitar in 1.8?
lol i think i just got my answerGǪ..
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Posted - 2014.03.27 02:12:00 -
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NotTheCloneYouAre LookingFor wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:so who here specced minmitar in 1.8? lol i think i just got my answerGǪ.. So far I have seen both Ghost and I complain about them (ie we did  ). Otherwise most are cal or gal, and a couple amarr.
Cal is literally sex. I went min cause i underestimated the active scanner nerfGǪbut holy ****, its so god awful right now its not even funny. I wish i went cal so i could see everything at all times and have enough pg for a nice cloakGǪ :(
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Posted - 2014.03.27 02:25:00 -
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Appia Nappia wrote:Really like my Min Scout in 1.8 It's that tasty, tasty Vk.0 of yore.
how do you fit it? i can't seem to do anything with itGǪ.
Looking for some help here
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Posted - 2014.03.27 02:28:00 -
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Appia Nappia wrote:One Eyed King wrote:Appia Nappia wrote:Really like my Min Scout in 1.8 It's that tasty, tasty Vk.0 of yore. You must only be using proto. I don't think I could afford to run one, given I can't afford to run my std so far this build. Pro Tip: Anyone can afford proto suits so long as you die 2 or fewer times a match
if you run an adv weapon, yeah
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Posted - 2014.03.27 02:32:00 -
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One Eyed King wrote:Appia Nappia wrote:One Eyed King wrote:Appia Nappia wrote:Really like my Min Scout in 1.8 It's that tasty, tasty Vk.0 of yore. You must only be using proto. I don't think I could afford to run one, given I can't afford to run my std so far this build. Pro Tip: Anyone can afford proto suits so long as you die 2 or fewer times a match I die around 11 or 12 times a match so far in 1.8. 2 deaths is out of my league so far.
the only times i die that much is when I'm unlucky and keep running into Appias full proto cal/gal scout squad with boundlessness 
Im still mad about not killing your commando
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Posted - 2014.03.27 02:33:00 -
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Appia Vibbia wrote:Favorite fit so far:
3x Basic shield extenders
IshNoks,
Imperial Viziam Drop Uplink, Viziam Flux Uplink
3x Complex kincats
#realscout4real
Thats a ballsy fit right there
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Posted - 2014.03.27 02:44:00 -
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Appia Vibbia wrote:That's 'cuz that is my troll suit.
ScR, RR, and REs
And you have to look at the hideous hardened Stay Puft suit,
lol
ill get you in it next time, don't worry
Im starting to get reaccustomed to the shotgun now, and a higher sensitivity
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Posted - 2014.03.27 02:46:00 -
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Appia Vibbia wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:One Eyed King wrote:
I die around 11 or 12 times a match so far in 1.8. 2 deaths is out of my league so far.
the only times i die that much is when I'm unlucky and keep running into Appias full proto cal/gal scout squad with boundlessness Im still mad about not killing your commando If I'm not up against someone I know, there really isn't any challenge. I've got my 3 basic scout suits sitting in reserve as I run C-1 Commando for this event. Cal-Scout + Laser Rifle really seemed like a good idea... until I found out that the buff either didn't happen or made it worse. Cal-Scout + Rail Rifle, still good. And that Breach Scrambler Pistol with 2 more in the clip and an extra 10-15m range is nice. lol The one Sidearm that got better.
i might just do min commando with dual combat rifles, just for lulz
Also, dual sidearm basic min scout with double damage mods
SMG and nova kinves
The cloaked knifer glitch is pretty useful actually
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Posted - 2014.03.27 02:47:00 -
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dammit you might just beat me
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Posted - 2014.03.27 02:48:00 -
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just kidding
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Posted - 2014.03.27 02:52:00 -
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Llast 326 wrote:Appia Vibbia wrote:I think I just won an award for most consecutive double posts... Could we get a ref over here? Sorry I see three consecutive Official Kaiser stands at 4
i might just have to beat that
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Posted - 2014.03.27 02:53:00 -
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not now though, I'm too lazy 
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Posted - 2014.03.27 02:54:00 -
[43] - Quote
see what i did there? 
Kills-Archduke Ferdinand
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Posted - 2014.03.27 02:55:00 -
[44] - Quote
Seriously though, i wanna get a poll going
What scouts did you guys skill in 1.8?
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Posted - 2014.03.27 03:41:00 -
[45] - Quote
Quil Evrything wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:
Cal is literally sex. I went min cause i underestimated the active scanner nerfGǪbut holy ****, its so god awful right now its not even funny. I wish i went cal so i could see everything at all times and have enough pg for a nice cloakGǪ :(
I skilled into proto cal , but I think I've only fitted ADV so far.. and.. no. not enough pg for what I'd really like. A bunch of my fits, I have to put in a power module :( I think I have one fit, that is BASIC cloak, plus prot shields, and basic armor, and ONE weapon. cant fit anything else :( I'm not quite maxed in core skills, but I do have a decent amount into them!
http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/2404
nuff said
try fitting a min scout
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Posted - 2014.03.27 03:43:00 -
[46] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:This is probably blasphemy but Scouting is really boring.......
try without the cloak
its still fun
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Posted - 2014.06.09 22:59:00 -
[47] - Quote
hey guys, been a long time since Ive posted here (or anywhere else for that matter as my main is banned and i forgot about this guy), but Id just like to check in about how you all are feeling with this new hot fix alpha stuff, and particularly in its effect on the minmitar scout. For some reason, I just feel that its usefulness has declined since the hot fix
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Posted - 2014.06.09 23:08:00 -
[48] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:hey guys, been a long time since Ive posted here (or anywhere else for that matter as my main is banned and i forgot about this guy), but Id just like to check in about how you all are feeling with this new hot fix alpha stuff, and particularly in its effect on the minmitar scout. For some reason, I just feel that its usefulness has declined since the hot fix
o/ Gav We've been back-and-forth about this quite a 'bit. The general consensus is: A) The Minmatar Scout is PG starved B) The Minmatar Scout is having a hard time sneaking about
iv actually been thinking of a solution...bout to do the math really quickly
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
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Posted - 2014.06.09 23:39:00 -
[49] - Quote
so, my idea is based in kin cats. I think if we replace the hacking bonus by making it an innate quality of the suit (i.e. buffing the base hacking speed of the scout by 25%) we can fill that missing bonus slot with a bonus to kin cats.
Why not just innate speed, one may ask?
Well, if it was, then it would just encourage armor tanking, which is bad and will get the suit into OP status, and finally nerfed into the ground.
What about the hit detection, the more discerning forum lurker may wonder?
So, if my idea was to go through, there would have to be a HARD speed cap, meaning that if the speed of the suit exceeded 11.12 m/s, the speed would simply be reduced to the maximum possible value (or 11.12 m/s).
The coding for this would be very simple-
if (drop_suit.speed>11.12)
{
drop_suit.speed=11.12;
}
and would not require a server side change (i don't believe)
My Idea:
So, for a min scout to be viable it needs AT LEAST 2 dampeners to dodge scans, which doesn't even bring it under 3x PE cal scout scans (another problem btw)
However, by doing this, it loses out on the ability to speed tank, which is what the suit is designed for. My idea would be to require the minmitar scout to only need one kin cat to reach above 11 m/s at maximum level, in addition to giving the scout a bonus to movement speed from kinetic catalyzers.
What this solves:
Two birds with one stone. The reason the minmitar scout is so PG starved is because the people who run it need to stack kinetic catalyzers to use the suits most valuable aspect-its speed. However, by staking kin cats, they lose the ability to dampen their suit, which greatly lowers minmitar scout viability, especially in PC matches.
Now for the math:
max speed=11.12
base speed with biotics maxed=8.3055
necessary increase to speed to reach 11.12 m/s=11.12/8.3055=33.89%
kinetic catalyzer (complex) base bonus=12%
what we want-33.89%
so, 12x=33.89
solve for x, and we get that the kinetic catalyzers must give minmitar scouts 2.8 (approx) times what they currently give in terms of a bonus, which we will then bring down to 2.5 times so that it is divisible by 5, and say that minmitar scouts receive a 50% efficacy bonus per level to kinetic catalyzers.
Speed with 1x kincat=7.91*1.05*(1+(.12*1.05*2.5))=10.92 m/s, and then if we change the kin cat skill bonus to 2% per level, we get that with maxed skills and this proposed bonus, minmitar scouts will run at 11.05 m/s with a single kin cat. This also creates a trade off as well for maximum speed for running to those objectives in a PC, but doesn't make it so that it gimps your suit as well.
Move Speed bonus:
per kincat, movement sped would be increased by 10% of the catalyzers sprint bonus per level, capping out at the movement speed a min scout would get from a single complex catalyzer, or 6%. (this would be % of the base sprint speed, not with the bonus)
Max movement speed would look like-5.65*1.06=5.99 m/s
Or, we could just add a 2/3/4% bonus to move speed for kin cats in their respective tiers and have the bonus affect that
Tell me what you guys think.
OP, UP, balanced stupid, too hard, or what?
TLDR (whatever the hell that means)
make hack bonus inherent to the suit and add 50% bonus to kin cats per level and give kin cats a move speed bonus either exclusive or non-exclusive to the min scout.
Also, whatever you want to say, please do so respectfully thanks guys!
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Posted - 2014.06.09 23:41:00 -
[50] - Quote
PS guys... please read that text i put up. It may look like a wall, but its just formatting. 2 min at most, and i think this is the most balanced way to fix the min scout yet.
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
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Posted - 2014.06.09 23:42:00 -
[51] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:One Eyed King wrote:Ironically, brick tanking is still a problem  Moody wrote:
Srsly? You want to discourage brick-tank Scouts ... so you're going to nerf ewar and cloak? If Scouts can't hide, more of them will run HP fits.
Zatara wrote:
You can't have your cake and eat it too, Moody. Trust me guys. I totally know what I'm doing.
lol (even if he is my ceo)
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Posted - 2014.06.10 00:12:00 -
[52] - Quote
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:so, my idea is based in kin cats. I think if we replace the hacking bonus by making it an innate quality of the suit (i.e. buffing the base hacking speed of the scout by 25%) we can fill that missing bonus slot with a bonus to kin cats. Why not just innate speed, one may ask? Well, if it was, then it would just encourage armor tanking, which is bad and will get the suit into OP status, and finally nerfed into the ground. What about the hit detection, the more discerning forum lurker may wonder? So, if my idea was to go through, there would have to be a HARD speed cap, meaning that if the speed of the suit exceeded 11.12 m/s, the speed would simply be reduced to the maximum possible value (or 11.12 m/s). The coding for this would be very simple- if (drop_suit.speed>11.12) { drop_suit.speed=11.12; } and would not require a server side change (i don't believe) My Idea:So, for a min scout to be viable it needs AT LEAST 2 dampeners to dodge scans, which doesn't even bring it under 3x PE cal scout scans (another problem btw) However, by doing this, it loses out on the ability to speed tank, which is what the suit is designed for. My idea would be to require the minmitar scout to only need one kin cat to reach above 11 m/s at maximum level, in addition to giving the scout a bonus to movement speed from kinetic catalyzers. What this solves:Two birds with one stone. The reason the minmitar scout is so PG starved is because the people who run it need to stack kinetic catalyzers to use the suits most valuable aspect-its speed. However, by staking kin cats, they lose the ability to dampen their suit, which greatly lowers minmitar scout viability, especially in PC matches. Now for the math:max speed=11.12 base speed with biotics maxed=8.3055 necessary increase to speed to reach 11.12 m/s=11.12/8.3055=33.89% kinetic catalyzer (complex) base bonus=12% what we want-33.89% so, 12x=33.89 solve for x, and we get that the kinetic catalyzers must give minmitar scouts 2.8 (approx) times what they currently give in terms of a bonus, which we will then bring down to 2.5 times so that it is divisible by 5, and say that minmitar scouts receive a 50% efficacy bonus per level to kinetic catalyzers. Speed with 1x kincat=7.91*1.05*(1+(.12*1.05*2.5))=10.92 m/s, and then if we change the kin cat skill bonus to 2% per level, we get that with maxed skills and this proposed bonus, minmitar scouts will run at 11.05 m/s with a single kin cat. This also creates a trade off as well for maximum speed for running to those objectives in a PC, but doesn't make it so that it gimps your suit as well. Move Speed bonus:per kincat, movement sped would be increased by 10% of the catalyzers sprint bonus per level, capping out at the movement speed a min scout would get from a single complex catalyzer, or 6%. (this would be % of the base sprint speed, not with the bonus) Max movement speed would look like-5.65*1.06=5.99 m/s Or, we could just add a 2/3/4% bonus to move speed for kin cats in their respective tiers and have the bonus affect that Tell me what you guys think. OP, UP, balanced stupid, too hard, or what? TLDR (whatever the hell that means) make hack bonus inherent to the suit and add 50% bonus to kin cats per level and give kin cats a move speed bonus either exclusive or non-exclusive to the min scout. Also, whatever you want to say, please do so respectfully thanks guys!
well?
Does anyone have any feedback before I post this elsewhere?
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
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Posted - 2014.06.10 00:17:00 -
[53] - Quote
Spademan wrote:A 50% bonus per level seems like it'd be a tad much.
I don't think there's a bonus that goes over 10% per level.
scout is 15%
but the thing is, it may look like a lot, but if you look at the math, its not actually very significant and, in my honest opinion, fixes the minmitar scout without making it overpowered
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
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Posted - 2014.06.10 01:07:00 -
[54] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Llast 326 wrote:
You overcomplicated it
I don't think we can pitch big changes, Gav. They won't bite. Better off iterating through a series of smaller changes.
in that case-
kin cats need to give move speed as well (small change)
2/3/4% is good, i think
Min scout base sprint/ move speed needs to be increased by 5-10%
stacking penalties on 3rd and 4th kin cat need to be slightly harsher to ensure that hit detection doesn't become broken (small change)
5% dampening per level needs to be scout bonus-its too powerful to balance if only on the gal scout (preferably give this as a bonus to dampening modules to discourage armor tanking)
Cal precision NEEDS to be reworked so that a dual damped scout can dodge its scans (with new skill change) no matter what.
Single damped fir should dodge everything under 4 precisions
Gallogi active scanner needs to be greater than cal scout passives, and should pick up scouts for 1.5 seconds at a time even if they are double dampened
I hope this would be a little bit better, idk though.
Feedback, guys ?
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
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Posted - 2014.06.10 01:37:00 -
[55] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:Feedback, guys ? Like Llast said, we have a few irons in the fire. We've yet to fully settle into the first round of Scout changes. New patterns are still forming. At this transitional stage, anything other than a PG boost would be premature. Give it time. As for ewar, we spent the better part of day hammering out the ups and downs of its effects on Scouts. Frankly, its a 'bit more complex than "single damp should dodge everything under 4 precisions" but I won't waste your time revisiting each point and counterpoint. Appia's "Logibro" thread is a good read, if you wish to catch up. A lot of good Scouts have your best interest in mind; let's give guys like Moody and Ghost a chance to work their magic.
Ok, thanks Shotty, o7
looks like ill be running my militia min heavy w/ republic HMG, comp kin cat and comp shield for a little while
easy mode, here I come!
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
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Posted - 2014.06.10 02:44:00 -
[56] - Quote
Llast 326 wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Bastard Poll: For or Against Shared Passive Scans? On the fence It gives a valuable role to scouts particularly the Cal Scout Currently though balance of counter is brutalGǪ I hated Scanner spam and this is similarGǪ but different. Really i just don't like flat numbersGǪ I want Active Damps (yeah i mention it a lot) then I would be fine with it for sure.
By active damps...do you mean the cloak ?
seriously tho, id really like if they gave the cloak a bonus to dampener efficacy (i.e. you would receive a dampening bonus from it based on how many dampeners were on your suit)
26-2 ambush with militia minmitar heavy, no relevant skills
9-3 proto minmitar scout
Scount OP nurf it to grownd
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Posted - 2014.06.10 11:25:00 -
[57] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:Spademan wrote:A 50% bonus per level seems like it'd be a tad much.
I don't think there's a bonus that goes over 10% per level. scout is 15% but the thing is, it may look like a lot, but if you look at the math, its not actually very significant and, in my honest opinion, fixes the minmitar scout without making it overpowered Yeah, people don't realize that a 10% bonus to Kincats is almost worthless. Why? Because it multiplies a percentage of a small percentage. At max, that's 50%, which takes the 12% boost and makes it 18% Which translates to a grand total of : (DRUMROLL) +0.5m/s speed difference! Whoopie. Not enough to matter. 250% bonus? Kincats go to a 42% Increase That makes you 11.8 m/s from a single Kincat! Now, with the Speed cap, you would only sprint at around 11.12 m/s which is PERFECT for speed tanking. Although I would still like that 11.8
Now: About your changes to the Min Scout I like them, as it achieves the main goal of the suit. Speed, Stealth, and Hacking. The Min Scout needs ALL THREE to be a viable suit in PC. It needs the stealth to get to the point undetected, the hack to get it done before anyone crashes your party, and then the Speed to get out. How this is achieved can vary. I actually don't want a boost to Kincat efficacy. Just buff the Min Scout's base speed. Buff it to around 9.31 m/s. This makes the bonus from Bitoics buff it to 9.78 which is GOOD in it's own right. Wanna be faster? We can throw on a speed mod. 1 Complex puts you at exactly 11 m/s. Perfect. Now, the reason why I do this, is because I still want people to have flexibility. You keep the bonus to Knives and Hack, and you also buff the base hack to 1.25 (Zatara and I discussed the numbers, it won't make the scout OP. With 1x Codebreakers and 2x Damps, it makes the scout hack faster than a Gal running 2x Codebreakers and 2x Damp. Gal can't steal our hack role with this). Now, this also provides that flexibility I talked about. You are fast enough to survive, and you can now choose. More Speed? Or More Hack? Or maybe you're fine with 9.78 m/s sprint and the hack speed w/o mods. You have some freedom to fit other mods, to turn it into a slayer scout while maintaining a speed that separates you from the other scouts. A scout with 343 shields and 160 armor (Complex Ferro) will be a good skirmish fighter with decent hack to back it up. Allows you to have that flexibility to play as a light assault if you need to. Notice the word I keep saying. Flexibility. The Minmatar suits are supposed to be flexible, fragile suits that have a higher base speed over the other suits. The changes I have mentioned should help the Min Scout out a LOT. OH, and PG still needs a buff. What fit will I run? 2x Shields 1x Complex Sidearm Damage Mod 2x Damp 1x Speed Ishnoks Core Flaylock (Utility and for Popping remotes) Fluxes Proto Cloak F\45 RE's (I hope the PG buff is enough for this.) This fit is made to Cause Chaos. At 11 m/s and dampened, I should be able to zoom around and harass targets. RE's are for Traps or quick DoT (Damage on Target. Think "Oh hey, two heavies on the point. RE TIME!) Fluxes are for removing equipment, and the Core is used to quickly remove remotes from Objectives. I can't hack super fast, but at 1.9 base hack (Translates to 5 second hack speeds) I can still get it off quickly. If not, I can escape if need be. EDIT: Okay, I just realized a possible problem with this. With the high base speed, you can run a complex Plate instead of a ferro. How is this a problem? 578 total HP that sprints at 9.3 m/s and mostly undetectable. Sound familiar? Granted, you have no armor regen. At all. And your strafe still takes a hit. It's not too bad (The Gal Scout hit over 700 and was only a bit slower, AND it had armor regen) Hm. I think the plates need a higher speed penalty, possibly around the old value of 10% That would make this guy sprint at 8.8, which is a LOT more manageable. Not to mention what will happen to his strafe..
not very bad ideas...if we can get moody mustard and some other guys to agree on this, we could all present it to rattati and see what he thinks, as it does seem that it will balance (or at least help the min scout)
26-2 ambush with militia minmitar heavy, no relevant skills
9-3 proto minmitar scout
Scount OP nurf it to grownd
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
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Posted - 2014.06.10 19:18:00 -
[58] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:what weapons and equipment are you guys using? I'm suspicious of a buff because I think it would enable things like max dampening, PRO weapons, and dual PRO equipment with no sacrifice to fitting. I'm fine with scouts needing fitting restrictions. I bet you guys aren't using combat rifles and SMGs and fitting the longer range stuff on there like RRs and also expecting to have a tank to go with it.
shame on you.
this pretty much sums up the community wide ignorance regarding the "unicorn" scouts (amarr and minmitar)
Though, for some reason, Iv noticed that more people seem to have sympathy for the amarr (less gimped) scout than the minmitar, which i find interesting.
26-2 ambush with militia minmitar heavy, no relevant skills
9-3 proto minmitar scout
Scount OP nurf it to grownd
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
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Posted - 2014.06.10 22:02:00 -
[59] - Quote
J0LLY R0G3R wrote:Spademan wrote:I'm getting the feeling that Jolly doesn't like Heavies all that much... XD nahhh man. I have proto gallente heavy, and caldari heavy. J0LLY R0G3R ran around as a Type II heavy or whatever whenever that was a thing. I hate idiots and think there should be an iq test before your allowed to get on a computer/device connected to the internet.
lol i think we all know who were talking about here
26-2 ambush with militia minmitar heavy, no relevant skills
9-3 proto minmitar scout
Scount OP nurf it to grownd
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
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Posted - 2014.06.11 11:59:00 -
[60] - Quote
kincats to high slot will screw over the minmitar scout even more
Id say that code breakers and PG upgrades need to be moved to high slots, but kin cats need to stay as lows
26-2 ambush with militia minmitar heavy, no relevant skills
9-3 proto minmitar scout
Scount OP nurf it to grownd
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
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Posted - 2014.06.11 14:37:00 -
[61] - Quote
Spademan wrote:Observation: People seem to be bad at noticing when people just behind them start dropping.
Another observation: when people die to lack of situational awareness, they tend to blame it on the cloak and scouts being OP
26-2 ambush with militia minmitar heavy, no relevant skills
9-3 proto minmitar scout
Scount OP nurf it to grownd
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
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Posted - 2014.06.12 00:35:00 -
[62] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:@ Ghost
lol ... hadn't seen that before :-)
@ Bojo
Cat popped on my to ask Scout questions.
@ Cat
Can't believe I haven't asked yet ... why do you guys want KinCats moved to high slot?
I wanted kin cats in high slots because that's a Gallente thing. In EVE, Gallente fit afterburners and Micro Warp Drives (similar to Kin Cats, and they go on the same slots as shields) to get into a "knife fight" with the enemy, and use their very high damage but short range blaster weaponry. They also regenerate their armor rather than have loads of it. With the recent armor changes, I finally can have a viable regenerator Gallente Assault, and soon I'll have a Plasma Rifle that kicks arse in CQC. Now all I need is speed and my Gallente Assault would be complete.
I'm sorry, but in Dust, kin cats in high slots would be so brokenly overpowered for armor suits, and would nerf the **** out of all minmitar suits. In reality, the opposite needs to happen.
26-2 ambush with militia minmitar heavy, no relevant skills
9-3 proto minmitar scout
Scount OP nurf it to grownd
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
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Posted - 2014.06.12 00:43:00 -
[63] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:@ Ghost
lol ... hadn't seen that before :-)
@ Bojo
Cat popped on my to ask Scout questions.
@ Cat
Can't believe I haven't asked yet ... why do you guys want KinCats moved to high slot?
I wanted kin cats in high slots because that's a Gallente thing. In EVE, Gallente fit afterburners and Micro Warp Drives (similar to Kin Cats, and they go on the same slots as shields) to get into a "knife fight" with the enemy, and use their very high damage but short range blaster weaponry. They also regenerate their armor rather than have loads of it. With the recent armor changes, I finally can have a viable regenerator Gallente Assault, and soon I'll have a Plasma Rifle that kicks arse in CQC. Now all I need is speed and my Gallente Assault would be complete. In reality, the opposite needs to happen. ?
if you look at the whole quote, i said that armor tanking suits would get a huge buff, and min suits would get a huge nerf, and in that respect the opposite needs to happen.
26-2 ambush with militia minmitar heavy, no relevant skills
9-3 proto minmitar scout
Scount OP nurf it to grownd
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
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Posted - 2014.06.12 00:48:00 -
[64] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Don't ask, Cat. We try ignore Gav; it makes him angry. (jokes)
Or it makes me spam more invites
26-2 ambush with militia minmitar heavy, no relevant skills
9-3 proto minmitar scout
Scount OP nurf it to grownd
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Posted - 2014.06.12 00:52:00 -
[65] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Don't ask Cat. We try ignore this one. If we make him angry, he'll get himself banned. (jokes)
Im almost half Irish so it won't take much 
26-2 ambush with militia minmitar heavy, no relevant skills
9-3 proto minmitar scout
Scount OP nurf it to grownd
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Posted - 2014.06.13 00:21:00 -
[66] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Brokerib wrote:
Llast has pretty much summed up my stance on it.
Amarr needs EWAR to be viable as a scout, and range is the best fit. Battlefield awareness but unable to scan down dampened scouts.
Cal with precision and range and shared passive is FOTM replacement for scanerinas. Two out of three should balance it.
With the Cal changes Min is viable(ish), though the suggested changes to base hack speed would be useful, as would moving hack modules to high slots.
Removal of range from the Gal may push towards brick tanking, but they're already there. Removal of range give the Amarr a unique role, otherwise Gal will just do it better. Again.
I see where you guys coming from, but my concern is dilution. By these models, we take the function of Recon and distribute its components among different suits. I say we let the CalScout shine in the role, and find a new one for Amarr. Why not Biotic bonuses for Amarr? Hear me out ... Presently, the GalScout serves two vital functions in PC. Initially, he's first to the point; subsequently, he's the best at getting sh*t done under radar ("ghost"). Why not introduce the Amarr Scout to PC viability by granting him the "first-to-the-point" function? So long as we structure his biotic bonus in such a way that does not break hit-detection, the Amarr Scout could be upgraded along these lines from sub-optimal to fast-and-fun. Afterthought: Minmatar are fast, right? Well, somebody has to be faster if for no other reason than to catch and herd slaves. Hence Biotic Bonus for Amarr Scout :-)
Current Gal Max Speed = 11.11 m/s Current Amarr Max Speed = 10.70 m/s Proposed Amarr Max Speed = 11.39 m/s <----------- Racial Bonus: +4% Biotic Module Efficacy per Level
I don't like it, solely as it further invalidates the minmitar scout. The biotics bonus should be on minmitar
Amarr should have scan range (weak scans at long range further enforce the amarr combat mantra, and bring a scoutly bonus to make the amarr scout a light assault/scout crossover, as it would be able to catch med frames in its massive scan range, but scouts would slip under the radar)
Honestly, I think a LOT more people would skill it up if it had say 10% scan range per level as well as its bonus to max stamina per level
26-2 ambush with militia minmitar heavy, no relevant skills
9-3 proto minmitar scout
Scount OP nurf it to grownd
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
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Posted - 2014.06.13 00:22:00 -
[67] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:Reserved for a Giant wall of text I am writing.
Shiver in anticipation.
you ware learning well, young one.
Massive walls of text are the only way minmitar scouts can communicate, other than bloody letters scrawled with Ishnoks into the backs of heavies
26-2 ambush with militia minmitar heavy, no relevant skills
9-3 proto minmitar scout
Scount OP nurf it to grownd
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
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Posted - 2014.06.13 01:05:00 -
[68] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:@ Gav
How would a biotic scout the invalidate Minmatar?
Minmatar Scout, The Ninja ...
Best at hacking; best at strafing; best at knifing.
Amarr Scout, The Biotic ...
First to the point; best runner; best melee.
Rather, you want Minmatar Scout to (1) beat all scans, (2) be the best in short distance running, (3) be best in long distance running, (4) be best the best hacker, and (5) be the best knifer. In the mean, time you want one role (recon) to be split between Amarr and Cal, such that neither can do either very well.
Assuming we adopted your thinking and made the MinScout the best at everything ...
Why would anyone not want to be a MinScout?
Why would anyone want to be a Cal or Amarr Scout?
1)false-I just want it to be able to beat caldari scans at all, which it can't ATM
I personally think two damps and a proto cloak on any non gal scout should beat 4x precision cal scout, and 2 damps on a gal w/out cloak should beat aforementioned cal scout
2)It should be the best in short distance running....its minmitar
3)Isn't amarr better than min at long distance running...? ALL I want is for min to be able to fit one kin cat and be able to use the rest of the slots to dampen. Thats it, fini, finito, end of story
4-5)These are both VERY niche roles, and !=being best scanner/most stealthy. Im honestly looking for a way to buff the amarr scout, and having it take over the minmitar niche of being the fastest, is, IMO, not the way to do it
With all due respect, I (and I'm sure many other minjas out there) skilled min scout because it was the fastest in the game (until i knew about 4x KC gal scouts....but thats another story), and if we removed its relatively superior speed versus all other suits, it further de-incentivizes the role
26-2 ambush with militia minmitar heavy, no relevant skills
9-3 proto minmitar scout
Scount OP nurf it to grownd
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Posted - 2014.06.13 01:09:00 -
[69] - Quote
Brokerib wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:@ Gav
How would a biotic scout the invalidate Minmatar?
Minmatar Scout, The Ninja ...
Best at hacking; best at strafing; best at knifing.
Amarr Scout, The Biotic ...
First to the point; best runner; best melee.
Rather, you want Minmatar Scout to (1) beat all scans, (2) be the best in short distance running, (3) be best in long distance running, (4) be best the best hacker, and (5) be the best knifer. In the mean, time you want one role (recon) to be split between Amarr and Cal, such that neither can do either very well.
Assuming we adopted your thinking and made the MinScout the best at everything ...
Why would anyone not want to be a MinScout?
Why would anyone want to be a Cal or Amarr Scout? Currently why would anyone want to be anything other than Gal or Cal? Calling the Min the best hacker and best knifer are like saying it won second prize in an ugly contest. They are, at best, situationally useful bonuses. Even as (currently) the best runners, they'll still get beaten to the point by a fat suit in a LAV. Gifting the Amarr with biotics just means that it ends up in exactly the same situation as the Min, as it can be fast and run long distances and cause massive damage within 2m, so long as it gives up dampening and EWAR. Biotics will at best create niche play for the class and replicates what the Min already does. We don't need two Minja suits. I don't see it as splitting the recon role. I see it as providing different (hopefully viable) options for recon. An Amarr backing up a squad will give them massive visibility but without much depth. Using a Cal will mean you can see everything, but are limited by distance. If you want both, then run both in a squad, and then we have a reason to have two scouts on a team.
Well said ^^
26-2 ambush with militia minmitar heavy, no relevant skills
9-3 proto minmitar scout
Scount OP nurf it to grownd
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Posted - 2014.06.13 01:43:00 -
[70] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:@ Broker
Are you not OK with Gino? Gino will fix MinScout / CalScout, and everything I'm suggesting assumes Gino is adopted.
@ Ghost
I'm having difficulty following your train of thought. Can you boil it down to an itemized list?
Im sorry, I might have missed something....whats Gino?
26-2 ambush with militia minmitar heavy, no relevant skills
9-3 proto minmitar scout
Scount OP nurf it to grownd
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Posted - 2014.06.13 02:00:00 -
[71] - Quote
Brokerib wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:@ Broker
Are you not OK with Gino? Gino will fix MinScout / CalScout, and everything I'm suggesting assumes Gino is adopted.
@ Ghost
I'm having difficulty following your train of thought. Can you boil it down to an itemized list? Im sorry, I might have missed something....whats Gino? Haerr's EWAR solution. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2206665#post2206665
ok thanks
26-2 ambush with militia minmitar heavy, no relevant skills
9-3 proto minmitar scout
Scount OP nurf it to grownd
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Posted - 2014.06.13 02:01:00 -
[72] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:@ Jace
You've got a d*mn good point ... the ScR and Laser Rifle require target acquisition at long range. The Amarr bonus should complement their weaponry. I'm in agreement ... an Amarr Racial Bonus to Range Extenders would make alot of sense.
Thanks for speaking up. o7
Thats what I had been trying to say all along
26-2 ambush with militia minmitar heavy, no relevant skills
9-3 proto minmitar scout
Scount OP nurf it to grownd
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Posted - 2014.06.13 02:25:00 -
[73] - Quote
after reviewing Gino, I have to say that I like it
Scout V HMG
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Posted - 2014.06.13 02:46:00 -
[74] - Quote
iv always kinda liked the idea that gal scouts get a bonus to the cloaks invisibility factor (i.e. the higher you're skilled into them, the more invisible you are)
That way, they can be a ghost without breaking scan balancing
Scout V HMG
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Posted - 2014.06.13 11:10:00 -
[75] - Quote
IgniteableAura wrote:
@bastards
Why do you all have it in your mind all scouts should be immune to scans? If they have that option the cal and gal has no utility. If they can always "win". That will be the default. As long as uou include a mechanic that allows "waves of opportunity" it's more balanced. Aka cloak on, can't see. Cloak off you can. But both fits should make the same sacrifice in slots.
They shouldn't unless they have at least 2 dampeners
There are more suits than just scouts
Scout V HMG
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Posted - 2014.06.13 22:03:00 -
[76] - Quote
So, did we already toss my min scout proposal down the garbage disposal?
(Nice rhyme, amiright?)
Scout V HMG
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Posted - 2014.06.14 02:13:00 -
[77] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Bayeth Mal wrote:Wait, so what's up with the whole faulty premise strikeouts?
I'm confused. Haerr indicated that his numbers were off, ergo gino no go :-) We'll likely be better off sticking to point-by-point feedback, rather than putting together a master plan, pitching it as a community, then having Gav tell Rattati "yeah, everything they said plus a 50% bonus to KinCats for Minmatar so I can has fastest." (Half Jokes)
Hahaha gosh darn it! My master plan foiled once again!
Scout V HMG
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Posted - 2014.06.14 17:52:00 -
[78] - Quote
New ideas for bonuses-
Cal-+x% to scan prec, +x% to range amp
Am-+x% to stamina/regen, +x% to scan range
Gal-+x% to profile damps, +x% to cloak shimmer reduction
Min-+5% NK damage, +50% to kincats
Scout V HMG
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Posted - 2014.06.14 20:27:00 -
[79] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:New ideas for bonuses-
Cal-+x% to scan prec, +x% to range amp
Am-+x% to stamina/regen, +x% to scan range
Gal-+x% to profile damps, +x% to cloak shimmer reduction
Min-+5% NK damage, +50% to kincats
Can we ban people from threads?
:(
Scout V HMG
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Posted - 2014.06.14 20:38:00 -
[80] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:New ideas for bonuses-
Cal-+x% to scan prec, +x% to range amp
Am-+x% to stamina/regen, +x% to scan range
Gal-+x% to profile damps, +x% to cloak shimmer reduction
Min-+5% NK damage, +50% to kincats
Can we ban people from threads? :( Don't be sad, just stop saying stupid things :-)
Hey! I thought it was smart.
Ok so everything outside of the min bonuses were stupid. Fine
but seriously, what do you think about the min bonus to kin cats? I think its perfect for fixing it
Scout V HMG
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Posted - 2014.06.14 20:57:00 -
[81] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:
Your bonus (A) is absurdly large by comparison to others and (B) would lend itself to bullet-weaving.
And you should get rid of that signature; its awful.
Well ghost kaiser had a good point when he commented on it; its balanced because its a large PERCENTAGE bonus to a SMALL percent, making it very low. Also, i don't believe it would contribute to bullet weaving as there would be a speed cap which is what the soft cap is right now, and with my 3 KC min scout right now, i can't bullet weave (though I may just be plain terribad)
The real idea behind this is that the min scout doesn't have to sacrifice speed to get dampening to levels that are on par with other suits.
The real question is, is this overpowered or balanced?
Scout V HMG
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Posted - 2014.06.14 21:02:00 -
[82] - Quote
Appia Nappia wrote:So people rejected my idea a long time ago about changing the sprint modifier on Scouts from 1.4 to 1.7 and then limiting the KinCat to 1 per suit.
People were like, "you can't limit the number of times a module is used!" Until I noted that it was already precedent in Afterbruners.
Then people nit-picked that it couldn't be done because that is something on vehicles and not dropsuits.
But now that cloaks are limited to 1 per suit it means code for such a thing already exists.
Amarr Scout: 5.25 base; Max skills & 4 Complex KinCats: 10.7
Caldari: 5.45 base; Max skills & 2 Complex KinCats: 10.01
Gallente: 5.45 base; Max skills & 4 Complex KinCats: 11.11
Minmatar: 5.6 base; Max skills & 3 Complex KinCats: 11.12
Modified
Amarr: 5.25 base; Max Skills & 1 KinCat: 10.55
Caldari: 5.45 base; Max Skills & 1 KinCat: 10.95
Gallente: 5.45 base; Max Skills & 1 KinCat: 10.95
Minmatar: 5.6 base; Max Skills & 1 KinCat: 11.26
IMO this would be a terrible time to present this in a feedback thread, but I'm bringing it up here again just because it's been on my mind again
I actually really like this, and think that if the numbers were toned down just a little bit, and armor plates gave more speed penalty, this would be perfectly balanced
Scout V HMG
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Posted - 2014.06.14 21:37:00 -
[83] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:@ Appia
I like it :-)
@ Gav
There's nothing imbalanced about a Scout sprinting at ~11 m/s.
hat said, we don't know if there's a "hard cap" in place or not, and I don't think we can sell a +50% bonus.
@Shotty
I might be able to sell it if i show math to show that it is balanced, and if you guys backed me up. Trust me on this one. However, if you guys believe that it would be unbalanced, I won't suggest it, but rather work on a way to revise it so that it is. A 50% bonus to kin cats and a hard cap is ~ the same as a 5% bonus to sprint speed with a hard cap, the only difference is, the kin cat bonus forces a module to be equipped to remove the possibility of armor tanking with low slots at a reduced penalty
EDIT: I'll change my sig, as it is rather tasteless, but i need some suggestions for what to change it to :)
Scout V HMG
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
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Posted - 2014.06.14 21:47:00 -
[84] - Quote
Appia Nappia wrote:suggestion: a will-it-blend spoof
LOL thats actually pretty good
I think i might make it a challenge to decide my next sig, funniest one wins
So far, we have Appia in the lead
Scout V HMG
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Posted - 2014.06.14 22:21:00 -
[85] - Quote
Deleted due to my stupidity
Though Ghost, I did actually run a calc that says 35% per level gives you just over 11.12 m/s w/1 KC
Scout V HMG
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Posted - 2014.06.14 22:25:00 -
[86] - Quote
LeGoose wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:
Your bonus (A) is absurdly large by comparison to others and (B) would lend itself to bullet-weaving.
And you should get rid of that signature; its awful.
Well ghost kaiser had a good point when he commented on it; its balanced because its a large PERCENTAGE bonus to a SMALL percent, making it very low. Also, i don't believe it would contribute to bullet weaving as there would be a speed cap which is what the soft cap is right now, and with my 3 KC min scout right now, i can't bullet weave (though I may just be plain terribad) The real idea behind this is that the min scout doesn't have to sacrifice speed to get dampening to levels that are on par with other suits. The real question is, is this overpowered or balanced? Yeah, the percent is large, but that's because it needs to be large to have any effect. We're talking about doing a percentage increase on modules that provide 5-12% bonus on stats that range from 7-8. The bonuses are terribly small. They need to be larger if you want them to serve a purpose. That being said: 50% is too high. That makes them give a 44.5% Increase to sprint speed at Proto. With 8.31 being the base, that makes it 12m/s Work in Reverse. Make 11m/s the desired. Divide by 8.31 to get the multiple needed to achieve with a single module. 1.32, So we need a single kincat to hit 32%. 32 / 12.7 = 2.52 = ~150% 150 / 5 = 30% Efficacy per level. Of course, this only works if you limit Kincats to one per suit, or introduce a speed cap. Hmmm...something tells me your math is wrong (no offense to you whatsoever), as I ran the calculations on my calculator just a few minutes ago. Calculation should look like- 7.91*1.05*(1+(.12*1.05*(1+(x/100))) where x=bonus in percent Remember, its multiplying the PERCENT, not the multiplier as a whole, which, I believe, is what your math did. (didn't actually look over it so I may be wrong) What we get with a 50% bonus per level (or 250% max), is as follows: 7.91*1.05*(1+(.12*1.05*3.5)))=11.96 Oh wait, i was off the first time i did it-i put 2.5 instead of 3.5 So lets try this again, shall we? so well put my first eqn 7.91*1.05*(1+(.12*1.05*(1+(x/100)))=11.12 Then we use algebra and solve for x Easy So, we get x=~175% at level 5. So, per level, the bonus should be 35%, not 50 as i originally stated (sorry guys ) And this is why we leave the number crunching to Appia and Haerr
I deleted it because I was so stupid with my math....lol please delete this so I don't look even stupider
Scout V HMG
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
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Posted - 2014.06.14 23:47:00 -
[87] - Quote
Brokerib wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:@ Appia
I like it :-)
@ Gav
There's nothing imbalanced about a Scout sprinting at ~11 m/s.
hat said, we don't know if there's a "hard cap" in place or not, and I don't think we can sell a +50% bonus. @Shotty I might be able to sell it if i show math to show that it is balanced, and if you guys backed me up. Trust me on this one. However, if you guys believe that it would be unbalanced, I won't suggest it, but rather work on a way to revise it so that it is. A 50% bonus to kin cats and a hard cap is ~ the same as a 5% bonus to sprint speed with a hard cap, the only difference is, the kin cat bonus forces a module to be equipped to remove the possibility of armor tanking with low slots at a reduced penalty EDIT: I'll change my sig, as it is rather tasteless, but i need some suggestions for what to change it to :) Here you go. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyHcLxILnuw&feature=kp
the **** did i just watch....
Scout V HMG
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Posted - 2014.06.14 23:48:00 -
[88] - Quote
Spademan wrote:Gav, I have your new sig sorted.
LOL caption would be "this is what all minjas are thinking...."
Scout V HMG
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Posted - 2014.06.14 23:54:00 -
[89] - Quote
Ok so Spademan is the new winner of Gav's sig!
Will change shortly
What all Minjas are thinking as they play...
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Posted - 2014.06.15 00:09:00 -
[90] - Quote
IgniteableAura wrote:Someone make a thread for me and explain why this is not acceptable. http://youtu.be/CNGM-RgxVHsshould be uploaded in 30 mins. The first couple are showing how it should work. rest are like, oh hit detection with shotgun. F U! The last example is hilarious. I don't have time right now to do it. LOVE YOU ALL :D Beer time!
No thats pretty bad.
Yeah i feel what it shows though all the time
sometimes, my hits don't register when they should, other times they instagib when i know i should have missed, or at least hit with only a small part of the "spread"
What all Minjas are thinking as they play...
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Posted - 2014.06.15 01:32:00 -
[91] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:Deleted due to my stupidity Though Ghost, I did actually run a calc that says 35% per level gives you just over 11.12 m/s w/1 KC I was going for 11m/s flat, not 11.12 Read my math 
oops lol
What all Minjas are thinking as they play...
Yellow Heavy, Red Heavy...
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Posted - 2014.06.15 01:39:00 -
[92] - Quote
For all of you battling heavy spam...heres a nice little poem
Yellow Heavy, Red Heavy
Green Heavy, Dead heavy
Rail heavy, tank heavy
Thales heavy, gank heavy
HMG or rail rifle?
in the redline?
sniper rifle!
You think I'm slow?
I have a car!
Ill jump out with my ARR!
Things can kill me?
They're OP!
CCP, nerf the RE!
Whats that?
Im a noob?
Get gud scrub, I have more HP than you!
I like EZ mode, its not my fault!
Why should I have to skill assault?
Right now we are super UP.
Thats why we're the only suit you see!
Even better, Ill drive a tank.
Watch me jump out with my HMG
OH wow, you got instaganked!
I just need this weapon that makes you super slow
Its not my fault my aiming blows!
What all Minjas are thinking as they play...
Yellow Heavy, Red Heavy...
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
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Posted - 2014.06.15 19:28:00 -
[93] - Quote
Appia Vibbia wrote:Bayeth Mal wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:
Methinks buffing the Shotgun on account of Heavies may make it too good against non-Heavies.
So I say we shoot for rotation speed. The Jumping Pirouette is cute, but its causing problems.
As I've already said, the sentinel in me agrees with this, and the scout that keeps having to deal with them also agrees. We should bring the the shotgun and compare it to Remote Explosives. . . because Rattati needed to mess with REs so that people were more likely to use proto. Shotguns take the same number of shots to kill regardless of tier
Id advocate for a STD and MLT shotgun nerf (especially because they are easier to use due to higher spread, allowing for those who can't aim to use them more easily), ADV maybe needs a slight buff, or should stay the same, and PRO NEEDS a buff
What all Minjas are thinking as they play...
Yellow Heavy, Red Heavy...
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Posted - 2014.06.17 03:27:00 -
[94] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:One Eyed King wrote:2-1 USA USA!
Murica. F*ck yeah!
What all Minjas are thinking as they play...
Yellow Heavy, Red Heavy...
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Posted - 2014.06.17 22:47:00 -
[95] - Quote
this is what i hear whenever someone defends heavies by saying "its a heavy!" or "there are lots of counters you just need to get better, i get killed a lot"
What all Minjas are thinking as they play...
Yellow Heavy, Red Heavy...
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Posted - 2014.06.17 22:56:00 -
[96] - Quote
lol
i don't expect anyone to, i only put out ideas that are good every so often
What all Minjas are thinking as they play...
Yellow Heavy, Red Heavy...
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Posted - 2014.06.17 23:47:00 -
[97] - Quote
Spademan wrote:Does anyone else have trouble hurting Caldari scouts?
I mean, sometimes it feels like no matter how much I hit them I'm only doing like 1/10th of the damage.
yes. shotguns seem to not fully hit them even at point blank, and CR rounds seem to go right through em
What all Minjas are thinking as they play...
Yellow Heavy, Red Heavy...
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Posted - 2014.06.18 02:01:00 -
[98] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Appia Vibbia wrote:I posted in the most current "cal-scout is broken but I don't know how" thread. It looks like there is something wrong with the strafe animation as they always seem to teleport but only when moving side-ways. Same observation. Supposedly slower than a Minja but a whole heck of a lot tougher to hit when strafing.
yeah, in general, when i perform the same strafe with a minja and a cal scout, i tend to take a lot more damage in my minja suit
completely anecdotal, but it is what it is
What all Minjas are thinking as they play...
Yellow Heavy, Red Heavy...
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Posted - 2014.06.19 04:02:00 -
[99] - Quote
IgniteableAura wrote:I bought five fed geks. After 3 hours of playing I still have 3. Hahahaha . But honestly. I would still do better with CR.
I am debating if the whole reason they buffed shields is because they buffed AR. Ar simply shred shield and it's scary to face one in anything shield tanked. Armor is still king IMO.
500hp is just GONE when against an ar.
Ghost even is pubs I HAVE to run damps on knife fits, I swear mediums can see me on tac net. It's frustrating to not run dual kincats. I do about 10x better when running a single damp.
I'm pretty much only running a tri damp ninja in PC's now with a CR
SG isn't good enough (poor hit detection, low range, completely unreliable), kin cats take up a slot that is necessary for dampening and don't really even do much...the 35% kin cat bonus for minmitar needs to be added or we will see the speed scout die out completely
What all Minjas are thinking as they play...
Yellow Heavy, Red Heavy...
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
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Posted - 2014.06.19 14:30:00 -
[100] - Quote
IgniteableAura wrote:Well to be fair the speed is only there to flank, ccp created such a powerful aim assist it doesn't matter how fast we go.
yeah, but to be fast enough to flank, you have to sacrifice any dampening capabilities you may have wanted. Thats why i think the 35% bonus is a must
What all Minjas are thinking as they play...
Yellow Heavy, Red Heavy...
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Posted - 2014.06.19 18:19:00 -
[101] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:IgniteableAura wrote:Well to be fair the speed is only there to flank, ccp created such a powerful aim assist it doesn't matter how fast we go. yeah, but to be fast enough to flank, you have to sacrifice any dampening capabilities you may have wanted. Thats why i think the 35% bonus is a must No. Speed makes a merc better at flanking, but it is not a req't to flank.
so you're against a 35% bonus to kin cat efficacy for min scouts (assuming a speed cap)?
What all Minjas are thinking as they play...
Yellow Heavy, Red Heavy...
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
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Posted - 2014.06.20 02:40:00 -
[102] - Quote
Spademan wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:jolly what have you done
why would you say that to nox
why Totally right though. Heavies are way underpowered. Did you know that the HMG cannot kill in 1/10th of a second? Madness I say!
um... actually thats almost false
six kin burst, 4 damage mods is 1400 damage per second
min scout unranked has 170 hp
170/1400=.12 seconds
so yeah, they are super underpowered
And you get it on suits with the most HP in the game...get out of here. How is this even a viable role? 
What all Minjas are thinking as they play...
Yellow Heavy, Red Heavy...
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
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Posted - 2014.06.20 02:49:00 -
[103] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:Spademan wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:jolly what have you done
why would you say that to nox
why Totally right though. Heavies are way underpowered. Did you know that the HMG cannot kill in 1/10th of a second? Madness I say! um... actually thats almost false six kin burst, 4 damage mods is 1400 damage per second min scout unranked has 170 hp 170/1400=.12 seconds so yeah, they are super underpowered And you get it on suits with the most HP in the game...get out of here. How is this even a viable role? TBF, you're comparing the Highest DPS weapon in the game with 4x Complex Damage mods against the lowest TTK suit in the game with no extra tank slots or even passive skills. Not exactly a very good comparison if you want to argue balance. It's unbalanced from the beginning.
IK hahaha its a joke
I'm just saying that it can theoretically kill a suit in about one tenth of a second
Not saying it doesn't need a slight nerf, but yeah that was a joke^^^
What all Minjas are thinking as they play...
Yellow Heavy, Red Heavy...
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
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Posted - 2014.06.20 02:58:00 -
[104] - Quote
Llast 326 wrote:
I completely agree a slight nerf is needed
Min scout should max out at 100 HP say 30 armour 70 shields
I actually LOLed
What all Minjas are thinking as they play...
Yellow Heavy, Red Heavy...
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
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Posted - 2014.06.20 03:51:00 -
[105] - Quote
LOL i remember D2...I had a nasty hammer din almost to level 80 or 90 ( i can't remember which) and it was pretty boss, and PvP was so much fun in that game
i remember aura stacking with someone and then going around killing people with a level 50 with holy fire...good times
What all Minjas are thinking as they play...
Yellow Heavy, Red Heavy...
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
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Posted - 2014.06.20 13:10:00 -
[106] - Quote
Appia Vibbia wrote:Other than pandering to the loudest idiot around there's no reason for Minmatar or any scout to have a bonus to biotics. You've made modules worse for the suits that actually should be stacking them.
I think you're confused when it comes to Racial and Role bonuses. There is a bonus that all suits get across the for races for being that Role. Then there are the specific bonuses that each suit gets. "Racial and Suit" isn't a thing, it's just Racial bonus.
I don't think you've learned your lesson in suit balance yet. Gal-Scout's high base repair rate is what makes it a slayer-suit and better than an Assault suit. I think you might just want to stay away from doing any math whatsoever as well. . . because those numbers on Cal-Precision are, well, have you been hanging out with Zatara a lot lately?
And you gave Cal-Scouts the range bonus back. . .
Im not that loud...
EDIT: I like the spreadsheet shorty, and this is my personal take on what the new ninja bonuses should be:
5% base hack bonus per level
35% kincat efficacy per level
1 innate bonus, 1 module derived bonus
I think that the 1 innate, 1 module bonus model should be used for all scouts, with the stronger bonus preferably being module based.
EDIT 2: Im also fine with a bonus to code breakers instead if they are being moved to high slots, so long as it doesn't derease the current hacking speeds
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Posted - 2014.06.20 13:33:00 -
[107] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:
35% kincat efficacy per level
If I hear this from you one more time ... We've no proof that a "speed cap" exists, and to add one would require a client-side update. Further, a "cap" defies precedent in that "caps" don't exist among other modules. Even further, there is no precedent for an obscenely large bonus like the one you've proposed. 35% per level!? That's 175% at Level 5. The idea won't work and even if it did, we couldn't sell it if we tried a thousand different ways. You've gotta come back down to earth, Gav. Put that creative mind to use on something not bad. Help us out here ...
Chill..
Ok, the movement bonus isn't a bad idea, as it helps with in combat strafing, so +1 to that
Also, I hadn't read the whole thing when i posted i didn't see the tabs at the bottom
I like 4% movement/jump/sprint with whatever nerf is necessary to kin cats, as THAT will help the ninja more than my 35% kin cat bonus so +1 shotty, i now retract my 35% idea completely
Overall, it looks good, but the only other thing i would suggest is reducing the bonus on the cal scout for precision and/or range so that precision only reaches just above 2x dampeners and a complex cloak (it might right now, haven't done the math), as that will allow the caldari scout to escape scans with no range/tank modules if it wants (more versatility), and keeps it from being pidgin holed into a walking active scanner for squad support only, and also allows min scouts to run one kin cat as well as 2 damps and be invisible with a proto cloak on
Just my .02 isk
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Posted - 2014.06.20 13:38:00 -
[108] - Quote
I like the 4% move speed bonus and jump height but would it be possible to apply that to sprint speed as well without nerving kin cats too much?
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Posted - 2014.06.20 13:39:00 -
[109] - Quote
I think that sprint speed should be something that the min scout gets a bonus to, and the 4% seems good, but I would settle for the 2% plan if need be.
Im not in the mood for math right now, but what would be the estimated nerf on kin cats so that 4% to sprint speed as well wouldn't break the game?
EDIT: DPLAK
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Posted - 2014.06.20 14:06:00 -
[110] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:I think that sprint speed should be something that the min scout gets a bonus to, and the 4% seems good, but I would settle for the 2% plan if need be. Im not in the mood for math right now, but what would be the estimated nerf on kin cats so that 4% to sprint speed as well wouldn't break the game? EDIT: DPLAK Yes. Breaks game > 12 m/s. Can't even do 2% without reducing KinCats from +12% to +11%. Mobility bonus thereby will not apply to sprint and likely won't to strafe (because breaks game). Instead, you'll be 20% better at walking and jumping, which will vastly knife play much more fun / effective ... all the while sticking to our narrative of "ninja".
hmm....i honestly don't think that 10% to strafe speed on the lowest HP suit in the game would be imbalanced, especially as there is really strong aim assist, but I might be wrong and i don't want to overpower minmitar scouts at all....(seriously, i don't)
I think that if we reduced kin cats to 10% and gave the 2% bonus, that might be good, but that also brings up speed tanking on other scout races. Perhaps a steeper stacking penalty?
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Posted - 2014.06.20 14:20:00 -
[111] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:
hmm....i honestly don't think that 10% to strafe speed on the lowest HP suit in the game would be imbalanced, especially as there is really strong aim assist, but I might be wrong and i don't want to overpower minmitar scouts at all....(seriously, i don't)
I think that if we reduced kin cats to 10% and gave the 2% bonus, that might be good, but that also brings up speed tanking on other scout races. Perhaps a steeper stacking penalty?
The idea is to localize the impact of our changes such that they not p*ss off and/or harm anyone else. Appia says we shouldn't be downgrading KinCats (even by small degree) to benefit a single suit's racial bonus. She's 100% correct which is why the original change was removed. The innate bonus of 4% translates to 20% at level. 20% (not 10%) buff to strafe speed is roughly 1 m/s. Haerr points out that any buff to strafe speed is bad news. Strafe speeds are arguably too high as is (for all frames). We don't want to propose anything which might do harm to balance or gameplay.
The min scout does need some kind of movement bonus, but i think 10% to strafe speed should be the max, 20% would be imbalanced, but 10% would be helpful for a lot of things, without being overpowered. idk.... i really think it does need a sprint bonus, and I really think the best way to do it would be steeper stacking penalties on kin cats.....tell me what you think of that
This way, it doesn't really hurt anyone using only one or two that much, but keeps high sprint speeds under control
I may be wrong, but the stacking penalty increase would, I think, perfectly balance it.
Think about it. The only reason kin cats give such a low bonus in the first place is that STACKING them breaks in game hit detection (probably). Therefore, if we increase the penalty, they can remain balanced and the min scout can keep its speed bonus
Thoughts?
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Posted - 2014.06.20 14:50:00 -
[112] - Quote
I think that a 10% bonus to strafe speed for min scout wouldn't be overpowered, but i may be wrong and would be willing to sacrifice it for a sprint speed bonus instead
Also, what do you think of my previous post? ^^ (i.e. balancing kin cats based on increased stacking penalties)
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Posted - 2014.06.21 01:27:00 -
[113] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Roger. Moody and Ghost said they'd look things over and get back to me. Should we wait to hear their input on the current model?
Bottom line, I'm not happy unless you're happy.
I'm also not happy unless Ghost and Moody happy.
So if you three disagree, we have no proposal :-(
I think it'd be great as is, but I'm not Minmatar and I'm certainly not Musturd. So at this point, I'm hoping Moody and Ghost weigh in and either (1) agree with you or (2) convince you to let us push it forward as is or (3) you three come up with an even better solution.
TL;DR: Minmatar and NK Proposals are on hold until Moody, Musturd and Ghost reach consensus.
What about me ?
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Posted - 2014.06.21 01:49:00 -
[114] - Quote
Ok so my feedback (if it still matters anyways...): Min scout does need some kind of mobility bonus to justify running it. Really, it does. I don't think that making it super mobile will be a bad thing to take it away from being a scout: rather, i think it makes it more scoutly. Each scout has a certain aspect of the role as a whole that it takes on.
Gal scout is the ghost scout
Cal scout is the "scout" scout, as it can tell everyone when there will be an attack coming
Am scout is the assault scout: it is the hybrid where the scout can be used as a less durable but more speedy assault with flanking capabilities
Min scout is the ninja scout: always has been. It is the weakest in a straight up firefight HP wise, but can use its superior mobility to gain an advantage or create general carnage
Overall, while i was initially slightly dubious of shotty's proposal, i am beginning to approve of it, and i think that the min/am scout bonuses that he is proposing, esp. the bonus to movement and sprint for min, is good
I also don't like the idea of isolating knives to one suit only. They should be a scout's weapon, not just a minja weapon. I do, however, see no problem in making the min scout the most efficient with them due to its base abilities and natural ninja-like mobility.
Overall, +1 on amarr changes, as they are spot on, and +1 for min mobility, the more the better. I personally think that 2% per level to movement/strafe/sprint/jump would help the suit more than anything else in the game would, but it also necessitates a kin cat nerf, so i think 1% would be fine if thats what it comes down to. But seriously, the 2% bonus would widen its role by enough to compete with caldari scouts and gallente as well
Also, you guys don't have to keep on shitting on me, i ******* stopped talking about the kin cat bonus so **** off about that. Im just trying to help the min scout as best i can so just stop
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Posted - 2014.06.21 02:22:00 -
[115] - Quote
Appia Vibbia wrote:I think you're an idiot that doesn't understand how broken this game is and how stupidly OP movement is
yes let us make Minmatar Scout the Flavor of the Month and break any ties to New Eden or even other Racial differences
Just because a value is low doesn;t mean that the effect is equal in size.
Well the min scout currently has ~5% faster strafe than the cal scout, but who is better at strafing?
Does that 5% make it OP? Tell me honestly if you think it is. The hit box on the minja is fine, aim assist is strong, so while it would help the suit in combat, it would be the same as moving from a cal scout to a min scout during this next (supposed) fix if it sees the light. Try strafing with both and tell me if you notice a huge difference, if any. The truth is you really just don't want the min scout to be viable in a competitive environment. I understand that; its fine. You have your skills set up for what you like running, and it would annoy you to have to deal with anything else that could compete with the cal scout in terms of scouts. However, for people who only have one suit period, and that one suit happens to be a minmitar scout, we really would like some viability. Now that hot fix alpha hurt us more than any other scout, we need some kind of buff to even be close to on par to any other scout in the game. Really, stop trying to ruin a possible chance of viability. Moving at a 5% faster strafe speed doesn't make you OP if you're in the WEAKEST ******* SUIT IN THE ******* GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! STOP TRYING TO MAKE IT STAY WEAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It has a functioning and large hitbox, its bonuses are just downright terrible, and the only people who can actually stand the suit are those who are ******** enough to run nova knives (no offense), or are just downright masochists.
Really, I just want my suit to be PC viable, but if you aren't willing to allow it viability because you're scared of having any form of competition to the almighty cal scout, then go ahead. Leave us to rot, and do whatever you want with your other suits, cause why not? We've always sucked, why the **** should we have a chance at being viable to run? Thats soooo stupid, and you're right I'm a ******* idiot for wanting that, I'm so very sorry for being so godamn stupid
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Posted - 2014.06.21 02:23:00 -
[116] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Gav, don't mind Appia. You've been out-voted this round by your superiors (namely Musturd). Check the proposal for changes. If you have any new ideas, please share!
Well, what did you think of the speed bonus and then a nerf to kin cat stacking?
I never saw your response to that
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Posted - 2014.06.21 02:42:00 -
[117] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Gav, don't mind Appia. You've been out-voted this round by your superiors (namely Musturd). Check the proposal for changes. If you have any new ideas, please share! Well, what did you think of the speed bonus and then a nerf to kin cat stacking? I never saw your response to that I'm not responding to you any more on the topic. If you can come up with something small, unrelated to speed we'll consider it. Musturd was very insistent that the current bonuses remain as is. That means we can't add alot to them. If you haven't yet, read the past few pages of the thread to get a feel for Musturd's angle. Whether or you agree with Musturd is immaterial at this time (so there's no point arguing w/Musturd), but I'd like you to stay involved if you can.
Well damn....its a good idea, and you're just ignoring it....
Besides that, the only reason i specced min scout in the first place was for the speed advantage it offered, despite being worse in every other way. (it was even worse in speed too.. , but they fixed that)
Really, i was legitimately talking to someone in game today who sent me a mail after i NK'ed several people on their team, the persons name was Alliyah Smith or something like that, and we got into a convo about the min scout and even he said that it needed a buff to speed of some sort for it to compete with the cal scout, and I hadn't even broached that topic.
Just an actual anecdote to illustrate that I'm not alone in thinking they need a buff to speed^^^^
So what are the current bonus ideas? Are we still keeping the 2% bonus to speed and everything, because I'm just not clear where we stand at the moment, and id like to know before i can contribute something thats useful.
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Posted - 2014.06.21 03:08:00 -
[118] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:@ Gav
I understand that you're hard headed.
Please understand that I'm busy.
If you bring it up again I will hide your threads.
If you think of another angle, I'm all ears.
But no more about speed.
Well, one of my original ideas which is very OP when i first thought about how to buff the min scout would be to just increase the damage it does to targets under 10 meters away (or 7 or 5) and replace the NK bonus with that so that it doesn't screw over min scouts who like to shotgun or run speed tanked assault smg suits (I'm guilty of both)
Idk if this helps as i realize its ridiculously OP, but my idea was to make the min scout have more versatility in the ways it could gank people, as i found that it was really good at getting into other peoples faces and killing before they could react.
It also emphasizes the glass cannon role a bit more, which i like, and expands its effectiveness as well
just another thought if you really are looking for ideas.....
Also, I'm not hard-headed, as you so bluntly put it, Im just stunned that you are being so obnoxiously stubborn in your refusal to acknowledge any of my points
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Posted - 2014.06.21 03:11:00 -
[119] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:
Also, I'm not hard-headed, as you so bluntly put it, Im just stunned that you are being so obnoxiously stubborn in your refusal to acknowledge any of my points
:: HIdes Posts :: * Also, if you p*ss me off I'll hide your posts. Forgot to mention that earlier.
Well, I tried to explain myself in a rational manner, and i guess it just didn't work. Whatever man
Also, I'm literally just trying to help, so there is no reason to be a douche, but cool I'm blocking your **** too cause i don't want to ******* read it
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Posted - 2014.06.21 03:17:00 -
[120] - Quote
How do you hide posts?
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Posted - 2014.06.21 14:54:00 -
[121] - Quote
Appia Vibbia wrote:*walks in quietly* um. I was insulting adipem in that post for the 1% per level.
I just think Gav has fanboi status when dealing with Minmatar Scouts
*receives $20 for drugs from a friend*
Spademan summarized what I was trying to say in a much more stable way.
OMG im so sorry Appia haha didn't mean it at all, i was just in a pissy mood yesterday. Really was not trying to be an *******, i just saw the "you're an idiot" and went off on it. I really sincerely apologize about that.
I feel like an arseface now sorry
And yes I am a min scout fanboy
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Posted - 2014.06.21 15:57:00 -
[122] - Quote
So guys (excluding shotty): Im thinking about asking Rattati what the maximum speed is that a drop suit can travel at without breaking hit detection. I know a tank can travel very fast and still be hittable, but idk how hit detection works in regards to drosuits vs vehicles. If we can obtain a maximum possible speed for a drop suit without breaking hit detection, I feel that the min scout would be a lot easier to balance, esp. if we are in agreement about a mobility bonus for the role, which idk if we are. So ill try to get back to you guys shortly with what it is, and from there make some calculations and determine what a reasonable %bonus to mobility the min scout is in need of. If we aren't in consensus about mobility for the min scout, ill drop the idea completely, and i think that it needs more of a bonus to ganking other suits (perhaps replace the NK damage bonus with a damage bonus to enemies within X yards?), but I'm still trying to work on it.
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Posted - 2014.06.21 16:03:00 -
[123] - Quote
For other scouts: Im thinking that if the cal scout precision bonus is nerfed enough so that 2x damps and a proto cloak can dodge it, it will be balanced, as it allows all scouts the ability to compete in a competitive environment.
Or, alternatively, we could remove shared squad vision, which would solve the majority of balance issues that arise from a cal scout being able to scan everything. If the cal scout puts on 4 precisions and 2 ranges, it is undoubtedly and undisputedly an incredibly non-viable combat fit, but the ability to show everyone in their proto sentinel 1000 dps HMG heavy suits where every 300 hp dampened scout is is far from balanced. It would be balanced, however, if only the cal scout could see the suits that it is stacking 4 precisions to see, because by doing so, it takes away any combat viability that it would have. Just my thoughts.
Also, the gal scout damp bonus should be 3% per level so that with 2 damps, it doesn't need a complex cloak to remain under the radar, giving it a distinct advantage at dampening, without throwing off the balance with other scouts getting under scans
Again, just my thoughts, use them as you will
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Posted - 2014.06.21 16:07:00 -
[124] - Quote
Also, is anyone else having trouble with logging in?
At 18% synchronizing, i get a message saying "Downloaded data files corrupt. Please try again later."
Just wondering if anyone else is getting this problem
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Posted - 2014.06.21 16:33:00 -
[125] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:mr musturd wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:mr musturd wrote:[
Of course it could work but honestly there's no need the suit just needs more PG and assault suits need proper balance before I could really get behind any scout changes. Idk how I feel about CB in the highs its nice in theory but that would put you at 125shields on a speed hack fit I mean you could always slap some armor in the lows but that's just not my playstyle Fair enough. The PG is probably gonna happen through different means. I expect them to add fitting optimization to NK skill tree, and there's a chance they'll move PG extenders to highs as well. Maybe Logibro will dial back resource req's on NKs as well ... no telling. Anyhow, I'm sure not gonna force more ninja on the minmatar if the pros don't want it! If Moody and Ghost are in agreement with you, then that's that. The hacking bonus will be rewired as your "built-in" bonus and the nova knife bonus as your derived bonus. I will say that Moody and Ghost have both said separately that NKs aren't useful in PC due to hit-detection being unreliable in PC...that they really only use them in pubs. I took this to mean they'd prefer something else. So ... if Moody and Ghost both favor the proposed changes, might you be willing to change your mind? Nope knives are fine in PC Moody just has different roles and isn't able to run them regularly and I normally see ghost with a shotty. Ask appia knives are fine in PC she got me the other day when I was in my speedhack suit. Trust me knives work you just need a proper squad to distract while the minny flanks its in no way as easy as a shotgun scout but its very useful for taking heavies down while the main fireteam progresses forward. It comes down to the map as well some maps its just not smart to carry a knife but regardless I carry it anyways I hate running shotty in PC. I normally run ACR in PC, but OH brings tons of shotguns to the field normally, so when I'm in city, I bring one too. You only see me when I play OH, so that's why it seems that way. My General fit is ACR and Knives Knives ARE fine in PC, but I still think the changes are helpful. Right now if you want to use Knives in PC (At least against tanked heavies), you pretty much have to use the Min Scout. Ishnoks would take 4-5 full charge shots to kill a Tanked heavy without it, so it's not worth it for most. They would just use a shotgun. I also run my scout a lot differently than the others. I try to take the versatility of the Minmatar to heart. I have my speed/regen suit Stealth Suit Shield and Ferro Suit Hack Suit Etc.... I really try to make use of the versatile slot layout. Problem is though, the scans. I would really like to see passive scanning removed, but that won't happen. In it's place, I would like the ability to capitalize on my speed. Increased walk and sprint? Hell yeah. I NEVER stop moving in PC, and this combined with the high innate stamina regen on the Min Scout would do worlds to our overall speed.
Ghost, of all the min scouts that i know, i think i can sympathize with you the most. I agree 100% that mobility is something that the min scout needs to be able to distinctly capitalize on. Im trying to get Rattati to tell me what the max speed for a drop suit is before it breaks hit detection, as that will give us a starting point in how to add a mobility bonus, if thats what we finally decide to do.
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Posted - 2014.06.21 17:03:00 -
[126] - Quote
Appia Vibbia wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:For other scouts: Im thinking that if the cal scout precision bonus is nerfed enough so that 2x damps and a proto cloak can dodge it, it will be balanced, as it allows all scouts the ability to compete in a competitive environment.
Or, alternatively, we could remove shared squad vision, which would solve the majority of balance issues that arise from a cal scout being able to scan everything. If the cal scout puts on 4 precisions and 2 ranges, it is undoubtedly and undisputedly an incredibly non-viable combat fit, but the ability to show everyone in their proto sentinel 1000 dps HMG heavy suits where every 300 hp dampened scout is is far from balanced. It would be balanced, however, if only the cal scout could see the suits that it is stacking 4 precisions to see, because by doing so, it takes away any combat viability that it would have. Just my thoughts.
Also, the gal scout damp bonus should be 3% per level so that with 2 damps, it doesn't need a complex cloak to remain under the radar, giving it a distinct advantage at dampening, without throwing off the balance with other scouts getting under scans
Again, just my thoughts, use them as you will Underlined: this has been my stance since they brought up nerfing scouts for Alpha Italicized: this seems to be a client side change and would need to wait for all the new hotfix to come out and be done Bold: There's a problem with utility on this one. The cloaking effect of the cloak is basically worthless. The way the invisibility works is too obvious when you're moving (as it's just I/O) the only time it works is when you're standing perfectly still. And if you aren't dampened enough you appear on tacnet and have that nice glowing chevron over your head. The duration and recharge on the cloak favors predator-style hunting. The duration and shield flare favor camping. The only real thing it has going for it is the dampening effect. Without it, there's no point other than taking advantage of . . . terribad players, as FYI aim assist locks on and drags your reticle when a cloaked enemy walks past you So basically it comes down to the majority opinion taht 1 dampener and a cloak give the gallente too much power because they can stack 3 plates and be invisible (I disagree from a PC perspective but it is just way to ******* awesome at pubstomping) If the Cloak provides no dampening advantage and is easy to see when moving then there is no point in running it. This whole thing is why I was strongly arguing for no-one to get a bonus to dampening. 2 complex damps and proto cloak OR 3 complex damps is the only way for it to be balanced across Gal-Min-Amarr. but it also means a Cal-Scout can dampen underneath itself which we've got majority opinion on that that would be a bad thing
I don't think that'd be too bad if the range bonus was removed from the cal scout, because then it sacrifices all combat viability AND is blind at range to most other suits
Overall though, +1
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Posted - 2014.06.21 17:06:00 -
[127] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:I use min scouts, though I don't do PC, so feel free to disregard my opinion.
How often do min scouts need more than 2 damps to avoid scans?
In my opinion hacking is meant to be what makes min scouts special. Trouble is, to speed hack I find I need 2 code breakers, but I also need 2 damps to avoid scans. This leads me to believe the hacking just isn't fast enough on a min scout.
Would a faster hack speed balance min scouts?
Do you need 3 damps in PC to avoid radar, rendering min scouts unable to full fill the role of a speed hacker?
1) all the time, unless you are up against a terribad corp or are roaming around (i.e. not in city)
2)eh, idts, because to hack you need to be dampened and fast as well to ninja a hack in, but it sure would help
3)generally yes. My PC fit that i run against decent corps consists of 3x damps, 3x shields, boundless, and ishnoks. Its really only good for point defense IMO, and is the best fit PC wise that i can think of, unless you run a SG, but i can't seem to get my timing down right running under 10.3 m/s with it
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Posted - 2014.06.21 17:10:00 -
[128] - Quote
Also, I CANT log in right now because of some stupid bug...idk what to do
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Posted - 2014.06.21 17:24:00 -
[129] - Quote
Appia Vibbia wrote:Appia Vibbia wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:
* Minmatar: innate bonus changed from hack speed to movement
Seriously, Adipem, how can I get it through your thick skull that seems to be thicker than Gav's that this is horrendously broken as ****. Your understanding of the mechanics is seriously lacking. Base ground speed is the X that all other movement values are derived from. You can't simply change just movement and not affect sprint, strafe, backwards movement, crouch speed, etc.
Im still failing to see how 1% to strafe speed is game breaking. As i said before, its the same as moving from a gal/cal scout to a min scout (other than min scouts having functioning hotboxes). Is anyone saying that min scouts having 5% faster strafe than a cal scout is OP? If there are, they need to uninstall this game.
What all Minjas are thinking as they play...
Yellow Heavy, Red Heavy...
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
589
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Posted - 2014.06.22 14:38:00 -
[130] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Llast 326 wrote:Arkena why you no advertise to us. Spade whada say should we go on a hunt Bring it ion plebs!
And i was wondering what to do with my excess 300k SP...
EDIT: Oh wait, just kidding. Im having a problem thats not letting me log in to Dust, but this problem also doesn't exist....(according to CCP)
What all Minjas are thinking as they play...
Yellow Heavy, Red Heavy...
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
598
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Posted - 2014.06.23 13:56:00 -
[131] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:Brokerib wrote:Minjas, get your boots on. CCP Rattati wrote:Come up with smart, simple ways to "fix" it, we'll listen. No complete overhaul of skills, or slots. What does it already have, that would make it competitive if it only had a little bit more of. We have a window, please make your case. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2223231#post2223231 I have to get ready for work. I'm trusting you guys to tell him what's up in my place. I only have enough time to type this and tell Chimichanga that he's completely wrong about there being nothing wrong with the Min Scout. At least the guy admitted that he only runs pubs.
Im actually really surprised
I was just trying to draw a Rattati post to at least acknowledge the min scout being broken, and it actually worked....damn lol thats pretty good
What all Minjas are thinking as they play...
Yellow Heavy, Red Heavy...
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
598
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Posted - 2014.06.23 14:06:00 -
[132] - Quote
Also, we need some back up bonuses to suggest to him in case he doesn't like what we have so far...
do you guys mind if i mention the 1-2% bonus to movement metrics? I won't do it unless you guys give me a green light, but we need some other suggestions as well, and the 1-2% bonus to movement would, I think, be perfect
What all Minjas are thinking as they play...
Yellow Heavy, Red Heavy...
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
598
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Posted - 2014.06.23 14:07:00 -
[133] - Quote
Also, someone get shotty to unblock me so we can all talk about this as a group right now
What all Minjas are thinking as they play...
Yellow Heavy, Red Heavy...
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
605
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Posted - 2014.06.24 23:12:00 -
[134] - Quote
Llast 326 wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Iggy, Moody wrote:While I understand that lowering kincat PG would be nice, it will buff all frames, not just the minmitar. Which is not what we want. I don't know that I agree with this. It certainly isn't a buff to everyone; it would only benefit those who use KinCats. Rattati himself classified the modules as "lesser used" ... I'm with Shotty What suit is going to fit them that did not already have the fitting space?
Gallente!! oh wait, they already have 96 PG to spare...
"Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!"
-Buzz Kill
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
624
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Posted - 2014.06.25 03:31:00 -
[135] - Quote
My fit for pubs is only using an ADV specialist shotgun and a basic SMG and basic cloak, and wouldn't fit if i didn't have max skills....i assure you, minmitar have it worse fitting wise than gallente...
"Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!"
-Buzz Kill
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
655
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Posted - 2014.06.27 03:00:00 -
[136] - Quote
If were doing a Nos Nothi invasion ....
count me in! i can give a few mil to the war effort if needed
"Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!"
-Buzz Kill
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
657
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Posted - 2014.06.27 03:33:00 -
[137] - Quote
Who here is going for the shotgun? I may have time to play 2 weeks from now, so I wanna know my competition amongst the bastards
"Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!"
-Buzz Kill
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
661
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Posted - 2014.06.27 16:12:00 -
[138] - Quote
LeGoose wrote:I can throw some isk into the pot as well. I won't be available this weekend as I am getting married, but the following weekends I will be around and ready to mess some people up!
I know I'm a little late to the party here, but congrats man !
"Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!"
-Buzz Kill
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
666
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Posted - 2014.06.27 21:41:00 -
[139] - Quote
Spademan wrote:The ol' ball and chain eh? I'll pray for your soul. I kid, Congratulations!
Ball and chain=greatest wrestling move of all time
"Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!"
-Buzz Kill
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
666
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Posted - 2014.06.27 21:46:00 -
[140] - Quote
I do SUCK wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:Spademan wrote:The ol' ball and chain eh? I'll pray for your soul. I kid, Congratulations! Ball and chain=greatest wrestling move of all time That move hurts like mess I used to wrestle
I still do wrestle IRL, and whenever someone puts it on you  not very fun, I can tell you that. You basically have to break it by putting all your weight on their arm on the inside of your hip, which isn't fun cause your nut sack hurts A LOT afterwards lol.
But when you put it on someone.... best feeling ever hahaha other than getting a banana split which is the only more painful move that I can think of
"Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!"
-Buzz Kill
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
671
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Posted - 2014.06.28 00:30:00 -
[141] - Quote
I do SUCK wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:I do SUCK wrote:Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:Spademan wrote:The ol' ball and chain eh? I'll pray for your soul. I kid, Congratulations! Ball and chain=greatest wrestling move of all time That move hurts like mess I used to wrestle I still do wrestle IRL, and whenever someone puts it on you not very fun, I can tell you that. You basically have to break it by putting all your weight on their arm on the inside of your hip, which isn't fun cause your nut sack hurts A LOT afterwards lol. But when you put it on someone.... best feeling ever hahaha other than getting a banana split which is the only more painful move that I can think of Yeah I'm wrestiling next year for sophmore year for high the banna split is by far the most rewarding move for me
I didn't wrestle this year cause i got a really serious staff infection (which is part of the reason i started playing this game a lot lol), but i am next year
"Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!"
-Buzz Kill
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
674
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Posted - 2014.06.28 21:20:00 -
[142] - Quote
I just had an idea for fixing the gallogi perm scan and came on here to present it: How about instead of having a precision bonus, they get a cool down reduction instead, or an angle of scan increase?
"Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!"
-Buzz Kill
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
687
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Posted - 2014.06.29 22:26:00 -
[143] - Quote
Appia Vibbia wrote:A Damage mod up high, 3 complex profile dampeners, 2 codebreakers. Yeah, I could rock a 1/5 layout. . . oh wait. that would invalidate the Minmatar bonus to hack speed.
Well I could just do damage mod, 3 complex dampeners, 1 kincat, 1 enhanced/proto ferroscale plate. Nice. Now I'm just as stealthy as a Min can be, faster sprint, 150 more HP.
. . . I could go on. The problem of 1/5 layout would be something I would use in a heartbeat. So many vital modules to scout playstyle are in the low slots, I'm a Gallente at heart and love my blaster+armor+speed builds I use on my Cruisers in EVE. But this would be one of the best suits in the game. It would become Flavor of the Month to have that much fitting diversity and a Scout's naturally lower scan profile.
Maybe if we switched the load out to 1/5 and buffed the minja by making hacking inherent, removing the bonus, then giving it a 1% bonus to move speed?
That would probably bring both suits up to cal/gal levels of viability IMHO, without creating an FoTM, as there would be so many viable suits to choose from, versus just caldari with a tiny bit of gallente.
This would, of course, accompany an assault suit buff as well
"Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!"
-Buzz Kill
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
699
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Posted - 2014.07.02 22:23:00 -
[144] - Quote
Perhaps the 5% dampening bonus for 1 or 2 of the frame suits?
Id really REALLY like that for my minja
"Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!"
-Buzz Kill
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
715
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Posted - 2014.07.08 01:25:00 -
[145] - Quote
Why don't you guys just decide to make the hacking bonus innate...? That way it seems like only 2 bonuses, but you're really getting 3, except the hacking is available at all levels (helps newbies, etc)
I really like active dampening idea, as its not cookie cutter like the gal scout bonus, but still makes the minja PC viable
"Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!"
-Buzz Kill
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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
715
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Posted - 2014.07.08 01:26:00 -
[146] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:I am not asking for damps.
I would prefer to cease with the current Cal/Gal Precision/Dampening deal. Those are such strong bonuses.
I would rather see precision and dampening evened out across the board.
I will have to look at the rather recent post a Brother put up about such a thing. It was one of the better suggestions.
At this point everything seems messy, thanks to shared scanning and the cloak nerf.
Things got inaccurately nerfed with Alpha, and we are trying to put together pieces that don't want to fit.
^^sounds about right. Are you talking about Bor's idea?
"Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!"
-Buzz Kill
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