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LeGoose wrote:

Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:

Ghost Kaisar wrote:

Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:

Adipem Nothi wrote:

Your bonus (A) is absurdly large by comparison to others and (B) would lend itself to bullet-weaving.
And you should get rid of that signature; its awful.

Well ghost kaiser had a good point when he commented on it; its balanced because its a large PERCENTAGE bonus to a SMALL percent, making it very low. Also, i don't believe it would contribute to bullet weaving as there would be a speed cap which is what the soft cap is right now, and with my 3 KC min scout right now, i can't bullet weave (though I may just be plain terribad)

The real idea behind this is that the min scout doesn't have to sacrifice speed to get dampening to levels that are on par with other suits.

The real question is, is this overpowered or balanced?

Yeah, the percent is large, but that's because it needs to be large to have any effect.

We're talking about doing a percentage increase on modules that provide 5-12% bonus on stats that range from 7-8.

The bonuses are terribly small. They need to be larger if you want them to serve a purpose.

That being said: 50% is too high. That makes them give a 44.5% Increase to sprint speed at Proto.

With 8.31 being the base, that makes it 12m/s

Work in Reverse. Make 11m/s the desired.

Divide by 8.31 to get the multiple needed to achieve with a single module.

1.32, So we need a single kincat to hit 32%.

32 / 12.7 = 2.52 = ~150%

150 / 5 = 30% Efficacy per level.

Of course, this only works if you limit Kincats to one per suit, or introduce a speed cap.

Hmmm...something tells me your math is wrong (no offense to you whatsoever), as I ran the calculations on my calculator just a few minutes ago.

Calculation should look like- 7.91*1.05*(1+(.12*1.05*(1+(x/100)))

where x=bonus in percent

Remember, its multiplying the PERCENT, not the multiplier as a whole, which, I believe, is what your math did. (didn't actually look over it so I may be wrong)

What we get with a 50% bonus per level (or 250% max), is as follows:

7.91*1.05*(1+(.12*1.05*3.5)))=11.96

Oh wait, i was off the first time i did it-i put 2.5 instead of 3.5 Oops

So lets try this again, shall we?

so well put my first eqn 7.91*1.05*(1+(.12*1.05*(1+(x/100)))=11.12

Then we use algebra and solve for x

Easy

So, we get x=~175% at level 5. So, per level, the bonus should be 35%, not 50 as i originally stated (sorry guys Oops

)

And this is why we leave the number crunching to Appia and Haerr

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 178 post(s)
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 449	Posted - 2014.06.14 22:25:00 - [15511] - Quote LeGoose wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Your bonus (A) is absurdly large by comparison to others and (B) would lend itself to bullet-weaving. And you should get rid of that signature; its awful. Well ghost kaiser had a good point when he commented on it; its balanced because its a large PERCENTAGE bonus to a SMALL percent, making it very low. Also, i don't believe it would contribute to bullet weaving as there would be a speed cap which is what the soft cap is right now, and with my 3 KC min scout right now, i can't bullet weave (though I may just be plain terribad) The real idea behind this is that the min scout doesn't have to sacrifice speed to get dampening to levels that are on par with other suits. The real question is, is this overpowered or balanced? Yeah, the percent is large, but that's because it needs to be large to have any effect. We're talking about doing a percentage increase on modules that provide 5-12% bonus on stats that range from 7-8. The bonuses are terribly small. They need to be larger if you want them to serve a purpose. That being said: 50% is too high. That makes them give a 44.5% Increase to sprint speed at Proto. With 8.31 being the base, that makes it 12m/s Work in Reverse. Make 11m/s the desired. Divide by 8.31 to get the multiple needed to achieve with a single module. 1.32, So we need a single kincat to hit 32%. 32 / 12.7 = 2.52 = ~150% 150 / 5 = 30% Efficacy per level. Of course, this only works if you limit Kincats to one per suit, or introduce a speed cap. Hmmm...something tells me your math is wrong (no offense to you whatsoever), as I ran the calculations on my calculator just a few minutes ago. Calculation should look like- 7.911.05(1+(.121.05(1+(x/100))) where x=bonus in percent Remember, its multiplying the PERCENT, not the multiplier as a whole, which, I believe, is what your math did. (didn't actually look over it so I may be wrong) What we get with a 50% bonus per level (or 250% max), is as follows: 7.911.05(1+(.121.053.5)))=11.96 Oh wait, i was off the first time i did it-i put 2.5 instead of 3.5 So lets try this again, shall we? so well put my first eqn 7.911.05(1+(.121.05(1+(x/100)))=11.12 Then we use algebra and solve for x Easy So, we get x=~175% at level 5. So, per level, the bonus should be 35%, not 50 as i originally stated (sorry guys ) And this is why we leave the number crunching to Appia and Haerr I deleted it because I was so stupid with my math....lol please delete this so I don't look even stupider Scout V HMG
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 14500	Posted - 2014.06.14 22:29:00 - [15512] - Quote 5 mil on Ghost also if anyone will take the bet. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 1377	Posted - 2014.06.14 23:02:00 - [15513] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: @ Appia I like it :-) @ Gav There's nothing imbalanced about a Scout sprinting at ~11 m/s. hat said, we don't know if there's a "hard cap" in place or not, and I don't think we can sell a +50% bonus. @Shotty I might be able to sell it if i show math to show that it is balanced, and if you guys backed me up. Trust me on this one. However, if you guys believe that it would be unbalanced, I won't suggest it, but rather work on a way to revise it so that it is. A 50% bonus to kin cats and a hard cap is ~ the same as a 5% bonus to sprint speed with a hard cap, the only difference is, the kin cat bonus forces a module to be equipped to remove the possibility of armor tanking with low slots at a reduced penalty EDIT: I'll change my sig, as it is rather tasteless, but i need some suggestions for what to change it to :) Here you go. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyHcLxILnuw&feature=kp Knowledge is power
IgniteableAura Pro Hic Immortalis 1241	Posted - 2014.06.14 23:07:00 - [15514] - Quote Someone make a thread for me and explain why this is not acceptable. http://youtu.be/CNGM-RgxVHs should be uploaded in 30 mins I don't have time right now to do it. LOVE YOU ALL :D Beer time! Youtube
Spademan the unholy legion of darkstar DARKSTAR ARMY 1912	Posted - 2014.06.14 23:13:00 - [15515] - Quote Gav, I have your new sig sorted. I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 450	Posted - 2014.06.14 23:47:00 - [15516] - Quote Brokerib wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: @ Appia I like it :-) @ Gav There's nothing imbalanced about a Scout sprinting at ~11 m/s. hat said, we don't know if there's a "hard cap" in place or not, and I don't think we can sell a +50% bonus. @Shotty I might be able to sell it if i show math to show that it is balanced, and if you guys backed me up. Trust me on this one. However, if you guys believe that it would be unbalanced, I won't suggest it, but rather work on a way to revise it so that it is. A 50% bonus to kin cats and a hard cap is ~ the same as a 5% bonus to sprint speed with a hard cap, the only difference is, the kin cat bonus forces a module to be equipped to remove the possibility of armor tanking with low slots at a reduced penalty EDIT: I'll change my sig, as it is rather tasteless, but i need some suggestions for what to change it to :) Here you go. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyHcLxILnuw&feature=kp the **** did i just watch.... Scout V HMG
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 2001	Posted - 2014.06.14 23:47:00 - [15517] - Quote Spademan wrote: Gav, I have your new sig sorted. Damn you... This is how a minja feels
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 450	Posted - 2014.06.14 23:48:00 - [15518] - Quote Spademan wrote: Gav, I have your new sig sorted. LOL caption would be "this is what all minjas are thinking...." Scout V HMG
Llast 326 An Arkhos 3638	Posted - 2014.06.14 23:50:00 - [15519] - Quote Spademan wrote: Gav, I have your new sig sorted. This is why I like you KRRROOOOOOM
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 453	Posted - 2014.06.14 23:54:00 - [15520] - Quote Ok so Spademan is the new winner of Gav's sig! Will change shortly What all Minjas are thinking as they play...

Spademan the unholy legion of darkstar DARKSTAR ARMY 1914	Posted - 2014.06.15 00:06:00 - [15521] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: Spademan wrote: Gav, I have your new sig sorted. This is why I like you Hah, cheers mate In all honesty though, I legitimately love that song. I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 453	Posted - 2014.06.15 00:09:00 - [15522] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: Someone make a thread for me and explain why this is not acceptable. http://youtu.be/CNGM-RgxVHs should be uploaded in 30 mins. The first couple are showing how it should work. rest are like, oh hit detection with shotgun. F U! The last example is hilarious. I don't have time right now to do it. LOVE YOU ALL :D Beer time! No thats pretty bad. Yeah i feel what it shows though all the time sometimes, my hits don't register when they should, other times they instagib when i know i should have missed, or at least hit with only a small part of the "spread" What all Minjas are thinking as they play...
Bayeth Mal OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 558	Posted - 2014.06.15 00:34:00 - [15523] - Quote Incoherent ramble time. As someone who rolled HMG a lot through uprising (1st main role while dabbling in scout, before going scout proper) the last thing we want is to go back to the early uprising heavies. Back in 1.4-1.6 I think it was, rather than buff the Heavy itself and the HMG (which I wanted) they instead took away some of the heavys restrictions, turning speed and so on. While that was a little helpful it wasn't what we really needed. In 1.6 I believe it was they gave a buff to the base Heavy suit HP, I called BS on that at the time as I predicted light weapon heavies would become very common as you could run >1,200HP on a standard level suit. The early 1.7 HMG buff was really the best thing and gave heavies what they needed. A damn good punch as a reason to back off the front and helped deal with brick-tanked mediums who could out DPS you. It gave the heavy a real role in being a cannon and made a heavy weapon actually feel like a heavy weapon. (It's as combat focused a role as you can have, no equipment and slowest hack speed, so to be better at it is reasonable) But then in 1.8 we finally got the buff I wanted back at the start. Core Locus spam was a real problem for heavies back when we were all Amarr and thus armour tankers. But they did a buff and nerf at the same time, buff heavies against nades and nerfed nades. And as we well know, that's a bad strategy. More typical CCP over compensating. So in short, I at least would be fine with going back to some of the restrictions on the suit that existed in early uprising (specifically movement). Shotgun scouts will become a real problem for them but they still have the damage/HP that slayer-logis can't just out tank them like in early uprising. Conclusion: A sentinel thinks 1.7 was pretty good, but with the 1.8 buff, rather than nerfing the heavies HP/DPS stats put back on the restrictions of early uprising in terms of movement. This way the Heavy wins the 0-25m head on engagement but will need someone to watch his back for stabby bastards. Pre 1.8 we (OSG) used to use the heavy logi combo a lot, with the logi actually acting in command of the Heavy, directing him around like a mobile turret as the logi could look and move around to assess things better. I like that system, seems like a reasonable trade-off for a viable tactic, While best as defensive area of denial (locking down a hallway/entrance), in terms of aggressive/assault movement I think of the Sentinel as the "Right Hook", A relatively slow telegraphed move that can be avoided/countered but if it lands it can wipe you out completely (used to have a KinCat build specifically for this, Min/Cal currently fit this role). Re-introducing some of the turning speed restrictions will not prevent these reasonable tactics and I think will go a long way to dealing with heavy spam. And remember, 1 nerf at a time please. This bashing things around back and forth is what got us into this mess. Heading over to Destiny Beta and a few others Hit me up for Skype and PSN
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 5262	Posted - 2014.06.15 00:36:00 - [15524] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Deleted due to my stupidity Though Ghost, I did actually run a calc that says 35% per level gives you just over 11.12 m/s w/1 KC I was going for 11m/s flat, not 11.12 Read my math Headed to Destiny, To Hell with CCP PSN: EVL_Elgost105 RIP Dust514 05/02/14 GG CCP
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1843	Posted - 2014.06.15 01:16:00 - [15525] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: Someone make a thread for me and explain why this is not acceptable. http://youtu.be/CNGM-RgxVHs should be uploaded in 30 mins. The first couple are showing how it should work. rest are like, oh hit detection with shotgun. F U! The last example is hilarious. I don't have time right now to do it. LOVE YOU ALL :D Beer time! Slow-Motion is an excellent idea. You must try this with knives! Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
IgniteableAura Pro Hic Immortalis 1244	Posted - 2014.06.15 01:23:00 - [15526] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: Someone make a thread for me and explain why this is not acceptable. http://youtu.be/CNGM-RgxVHs should be uploaded in 30 mins. The first couple are showing how it should work. rest are like, oh hit detection with shotgun. F U! The last example is hilarious. I don't have time right now to do it. LOVE YOU ALL :D Beer time! Nevermind I made one cause Y'all are lazy https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=165327&find=unread Youtube
LeGoose SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 327	Posted - 2014.06.15 01:25:00 - [15527] - Quote Spademan wrote: Gav, I have your new sig sorted. Spade did you steal that from my Sig? Click it! I dare you...
Llast 326 An Arkhos 3639	Posted - 2014.06.15 01:26:00 - [15528] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: Someone make a thread for me and explain why this is not acceptable. http://youtu.be/CNGM-RgxVHs should be uploaded in 30 mins. The first couple are showing how it should work. rest are like, oh hit detection with shotgun. F U! The last example is hilarious. I don't have time right now to do it. LOVE YOU ALL :D Beer time! Nevermind I made one cause Y'all are lazy https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=165327&find=unread I've been busyGÇª geez KRRROOOOOOM
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 454	Posted - 2014.06.15 01:32:00 - [15529] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Deleted due to my stupidity Though Ghost, I did actually run a calc that says 35% per level gives you just over 11.12 m/s w/1 KC I was going for 11m/s flat, not 11.12 Read my math oops lol What all Minjas are thinking as they play... Yellow Heavy, Red Heavy...
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 455	Posted - 2014.06.15 01:39:00 - [15530] - Quote For all of you battling heavy spam...heres a nice little poem Yellow Heavy, Red Heavy Green Heavy, Dead heavy Rail heavy, tank heavy Thales heavy, gank heavy HMG or rail rifle? in the redline? sniper rifle! You think I'm slow? I have a car! Ill jump out with my ARR! Things can kill me? They're OP! CCP, nerf the RE! Whats that? Im a noob? Get gud scrub, I have more HP than you! I like EZ mode, its not my fault! Why should I have to skill assault? Right now we are super UP. Thats why we're the only suit you see! Even better, Ill drive a tank. Watch me jump out with my HMG OH wow, you got instaganked! I just need this weapon that makes you super slow Its not my fault my aiming blows! What all Minjas are thinking as they play... Yellow Heavy, Red Heavy...

IgniteableAura Pro Hic Immortalis 1245	Posted - 2014.06.15 02:03:00 - [15531] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: Someone make a thread for me and explain why this is not acceptable. http://youtu.be/CNGM-RgxVHs should be uploaded in 30 mins. The first couple are showing how it should work. rest are like, oh hit detection with shotgun. F U! The last example is hilarious. I don't have time right now to do it. LOVE YOU ALL :D Beer time! Nevermind I made one cause Y'all are lazy https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=165327&find=unread I've been busyGÇª geez I was hoping mathpia haerrthmatic or fat bastard could utilize their charisma for shotgun loves. I'll try and get nk hits for pre bravo. As shotty suggested. Its harder to showcase though. I'll do my best. Youtube
Llast 326 An Arkhos 3641	Posted - 2014.06.15 02:12:00 - [15532] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: Llast 326 wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: Someone make a thread for me and explain why this is not acceptable. http://youtu.be/CNGM-RgxVHs should be uploaded in 30 mins. The first couple are showing how it should work. rest are like, oh hit detection with shotgun. F U! The last example is hilarious. I don't have time right now to do it. LOVE YOU ALL :D Beer time! Nevermind I made one cause Y'all are lazy https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=165327&find=unread I've been busyGÇª geez I was hoping mathpia haerrthmatic or fat bastard could utilize their charisma for shotgun loves. Oh... I see how it is... Good Day IgniteableAura wrote: I'll try and get nk hits for pre bravo. As shotty suggested. Its harder to showcase though. I'll do my best. That would be good, if you can get some. Also a note, and I am not sure if this is just a sort of placebo effect, but your mention of the decloak zero damage, it brought to mind a NK hit I had last night that did not register as the chap decloaked. NK have been touchy before, but not much since the fix so it stood out to me. But as I said it could just be me correlating it to what was observed KRRROOOOOOM
J0LLY R0G3R And the ButtPirates 896	Posted - 2014.06.15 03:07:00 - [15533] - Quote Been taking some screen caps. I seem to be a bit lazy also. Destiny Imur Album My Destiny Will Be Streamed
Llast 326 An Arkhos 3643	Posted - 2014.06.15 03:21:00 - [15534] - Quote J0LLY R0G3R wrote: Been taking some screen caps. I seem to be a bit lazy also. Destiny Imur Album Pretty Can't wait to try it out KRRROOOOOOM
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2349	Posted - 2014.06.15 03:30:00 - [15535] - Quote Forgive if I've misunderstood, my brain is in "late night out" aftermath mode, but did someone say the shotgun is broken/bugged? If so please point me to details so I can A) prod CCP about it and B) maybe feel less bad about my aim Cross Atu for CPM1- An emergent candidate
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 1378	Posted - 2014.06.15 04:18:00 - [15536] - Quote J0LLY R0G3R wrote: Been taking some screen caps. I seem to be a bit lazy also. Destiny Imur Album Any thoughts on how it plays for those of us who didn't make the Alpha cut? I'm assuming a lot like Halo? Knowledge is power
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1846	Posted - 2014.06.15 04:41:00 - [15537] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Forgive if I've misunderstood, my brain is in "late night out" aftermath mode, but did someone say the shotgun is broken/bugged? If so please point me to details so I can A) prod CCP about it and B) maybe feel less bad about my aim Perhaps not broken, but behaving badly. Details here courtesy of our very own Higginbotham. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
J0LLY R0G3R And the ButtPirates 899	Posted - 2014.06.15 05:00:00 - [15538] - Quote Brokerib wrote: J0LLY R0G3R wrote: Been taking some screen caps. I seem to be a bit lazy also. Destiny Imur Album Any thoughts on how it plays for those of us who didn't make the Alpha cut? I'm assuming a lot like Halo? (halo 3 was the game that got me playing FPS on consoles) The ground movement feels very very like halo. Vehicles drive like halo also. (hunter)You can slide, double jump, triple jump. Controls pretty nice while in the air jumping. dbl jumping over people and popping em in the head as your coming down has been the funnest thing to do so far. That and tossing the throwing knifes...and the fn golden gun. Spent most my time on my hunter so far. Sunday i'll try out the warlock more and maybe the titan a lil. My Destiny Will Be Streamed
Bayeth Mal OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 561	Posted - 2014.06.15 05:50:00 - [15539] - Quote As Jolly said. It also has a Borderlands feel to it. Don't forget to mention one of the best aspects of the game, trolling other players at the hub. Such as shoving your head up their butt when they're not looking or forming 3 man dance towers. Heading over to Destiny Beta and a few others Hit me up for Skype and PSN
Appia Nappia 951	Posted - 2014.06.15 06:06:00 - [15540] - Quote Guys. We just hit the jackpot. We're on page 777 Secretly Appia Vibbia If you can read my signature... I'm on the wrong alt.



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