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Llast 326 wrote:

Going to preface this post with the fact that I only took out my SG for one match last night, so I have no experience with SG and cloak.
Before the cloak if I SG someone their tanked out ass would just turn and back peddle and shoot me with a Fine Rifle killing me, even though I had the element of surprise, and a better armour to shield damage ratio. Now with a cloak people don't do this?
This also brings a question to mind that has been brewing since the Pyrex Swarm video.
When you strip shields off with a weapon is it glitching out and counting the armour damage at the shield value?
Example: I instadrop someones shield with a ScR charged shot, instead of doing 120% to shields and 80% when it hits armour, could it be doing 120% to both armour and shields? Then when hitting straight armour it is applying the 80%.
The SG would benefit from this miscalculation as an alpha weapon, same with ScR and Ion Pistol when alpha charging. The ScP would be unless noticeable unless you are landing headshots.
Armour focused weapons would see a diminished return, like the swarms who are applying the shield penalty to their damage even on the hit that breaks shield, same goes for the FG, FL, and MD. On the other side the CR and RR would not notice this as you are dealing with a stream of applied damage so the shield/armour transition would be broken up.

Thoughts?
Am I way off base here?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 178 post(s)
Scout Registry Nos Nothi 1957	Posted - 2014.04.04 12:14:00 - [12751] - Quote Profile / Precision rounded to the nearest whole number. Ties go to the scanner. Would recommend leaving scanning to Gal Logi and Cal Scout.
Lucifalic Nos Nothi 396	Posted - 2014.04.04 12:17:00 - [12752] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: So I have a question about countering scouts. On the scanning table it appears very hard to passively scan cloaked scouts, leading me to believe it is a worthless endeavour unless you are a cal scout. Then I watched one of CEO pyrex's vids where he was passively scanning cloaked scouts with a Gal scout. So I looked at the table again. Am I right in thinking profile values are rounded to the nearest whole number and ties favour the scanner? If so then contrary to the table scouts with 2 comp precision and logis with 3 can scan undamped, non-gal, cloaked scouts. I know passive skills will affect things as well. So in conclusion, in pub matches, do you think it would be worth fitting my min scout with a couple of precision mods, or my logi with 3? Or should I leave it to the cal scouts? with my advanced gal scout i do often run 2x complex precision mods and i seem to pick up near everyone but cloaked dampened gal scouts. Other scouts can get below too if they dampen but im all good with that, at least they arent totally brick tanked. I can handle dieing to a proper scout. Its the assault scout wannabees im after. Here since Closed beta. Scout for life.
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1953	Posted - 2014.04.04 12:27:00 - [12753] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Lastly, I maintain that regular armor plates need nerfing. Remember when the complex plate had 10% movement penalty and no one used them? Seems like a very long time ago now. Then they got massively buffed (did the HP go up as well at that point?) at the same time the ferros and reactives got introduced. I still don't entirely understand why they got so hugely buffed. I still don't understand why prior to that the entire game was shield tanking. Armor plates currently give far too much bang for their buck but I wouldn't actually want to change that. Bring back the old speed penalties and see how that changes things. No scout is going to want to lose 30% of their speed to fully armor tank. And remember maths, people. 10% of 8.01m/s > 10% of 6.43m/s. Anyone suggesting differing speed penalties between suit classes needs to recognition that this already happens. Scouts lose a lot more speed than assaults or heavies because they have more to begin with and the penalty is % based. The buff came after the release of ferroscale and reactive. They got a buff as well. Armor pates all got a 30 HP buff across the board. Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
Bayeth Mal OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 286	Posted - 2014.04.04 12:31:00 - [12754] - Quote Great I finally get home and download 1.8 but cant concentrate because of this damn ear infection... And I'm away again on monday, will likely have to wait another week before trying some cloaked matches :(
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1955	Posted - 2014.04.04 12:33:00 - [12755] - Quote Scout Registry wrote: Profile / Precision rounded to the nearest whole number. Ties go to the scanner. Would recommend leaving scanning to Gal Logi and Cal Scout. Would recommend maximizing all Electronics Skills. I run Precision Enhancers on my Cal, but never on my Gal. Killing Scouts is pretty easy in both. Even running 4 complex precision enhancers, I find too many Scouts killing me from surprise as they're below my max precision. Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 2089	Posted - 2014.04.04 12:37:00 - [12756] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: Scout Registry wrote: Profile / Precision rounded to the nearest whole number. Ties go to the scanner. Would recommend leaving scanning to Gal Logi and Cal Scout. Would recommend maximizing all Electronics Skills. I run Precision Enhancers on my Cal, but never on my Gal. Killing Scouts is pretty easy in both. Even running 4 complex precision enhancers, I find too many Scouts killing me from surprise as they're below my max precision. You have to take into account that skills might not be applying due to the passive skills bug. Drop it like its hat. I´m a fat scout. Do you even lift bro?
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 3508	Posted - 2014.04.04 12:41:00 - [12757] - Quote I was getting chased around by a cloaked nk scout, being myself in a cal scout. I started shooting him with my magsec (couldn't see ****). I don't think he expected me to whip out a mass driver hehehe, let's just say he took the shells to the face. Splash damage = dead scout. The community is the worst thing that ever happened to this game Caldari Scout // specialized tank destroyer
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2720	Posted - 2014.04.04 12:41:00 - [12758] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: The buff came after the release of ferroscale and reactive. They got a buff as well. Armor pates all got a 30 HP buff across the board. Fixed Yan Darn wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: You have really pointed out everything that is not working as intended with scouts. +1 Seriously create a 'clack/scout QQ FAQ' thread or something in GD. Everyone just need to print the above and stick it to their ******* computer screen/TV/forehead/refrigerator. And done https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2022187#post2022187 Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Scout Registry Nos Nothi 1958	Posted - 2014.04.04 12:43:00 - [12759] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: Scout Registry wrote: Profile / Precision rounded to the nearest whole number. Ties go to the scanner. Would recommend leaving scanning to Gal Logi and Cal Scout. Would recommend maximizing all Electronics Skills. I run Precision Enhancers on my Cal, but never on my Gal. Killing Scouts is pretty easy in both. Even running 4 complex precision enhancers, I find too many Scouts killing me from surprise as they're below my max precision. Agreed. Hiding is far easier than hunting. Finding myself in more Shotgun Duels than before. Painfully quick by comparison to a knife fight, but still fun :-) I tend to do best while running Gal. Fast w/shields and dampener. If a Scouts see me, he'll have to chase me. You never want to chase a Scout.
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 5751	Posted - 2014.04.04 12:45:00 - [12760] - Quote All you people complaining about hiding or spotting, my chocolate matari ass can't do either. XD Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 5 STB-Infantry (Demolition)

Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2720	Posted - 2014.04.04 12:47:00 - [12761] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: All you people complaining about hiding or spotting, my chocolate matari ass can't do either. XD Eh, you get your speed, stamina recharge and hacking. Seems like CCP don't want minmatar scouts getting into fights, even though they gave them the knifing skill bonus. GG CCP well played ;) Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1956	Posted - 2014.04.04 12:48:00 - [12762] - Quote Really? Because my Minmatar Scout has under 15dB profile. Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 5752	Posted - 2014.04.04 12:51:00 - [12763] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: Really? Because my Minmatar Scout has under 15dB profile. I'm sorry you're right: I can't do either and have the fitting to actually do much else. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 5 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1956	Posted - 2014.04.04 12:53:00 - [12764] - Quote You must not have engineering and Electronics to 5 yet. I really don't have a problem with fitting the Min-Scout unless I'm putting 2 or 3 kincats on it. Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 3508	Posted - 2014.04.04 12:53:00 - [12765] - Quote I mostly see the matari scout as a clown suit, here is why: 1) running in circles around heavies (hilarious), heavy just ***** pants every time. 2) Insta nk blapping people (if the knifer is good): +50, +50, +50 3) Instantly rehacking something while cloaked, mindf*cks the enemy. 4) skilled up speed (3x cmp kinetic catalysers?) = aerobatics. The community is the worst thing that ever happened to this game Caldari Scout // specialized tank destroyer
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 5752	Posted - 2014.04.04 12:54:00 - [12766] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: You must not have engineering and Electronics to 5 yet. I really don't have a problem with fitting the Min-Scout unless I'm putting 2 or 3 kincats on it. My engineering is not fully upgraded yes, repercussions of not being here for the first SP event due to being in the hospital. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 5 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Scout Registry Nos Nothi 1965	Posted - 2014.04.04 14:25:00 - [12767] - Quote Please weigh in here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2022394#post2022394 There's no right or wrong position, and I'd very much like to hear everyone's opinion. Edit: Except for Quil.
Spademan the unholy legion of darkstar DARKSTAR ARMY 1117	Posted - 2014.04.04 15:28:00 - [12768] - Quote Scout Registry wrote: Please weigh in here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2022394#post2022394 There's no right or wrong position, and I'd very much like to hear everyone's opinion. Edit: Except for Quil. What if the cloak was split into two variants, a visual cloak and an electronic cloak? I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1960	Posted - 2014.04.04 15:31:00 - [12769] - Quote Spademan wrote: Scout Registry wrote: Please weigh in here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2022394#post2022394 There's no right or wrong position, and I'd very much like to hear everyone's opinion. Edit: Except for Quil. What if the cloak was split into two variants, a visual cloak and an electronic cloak? An electronic cloak? That would be so novel. I've never heard of something like that. Wait... you mean that thing called a "profile dampener" has existed for over 2 years? preposterous! Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
Spademan the unholy legion of darkstar DARKSTAR ARMY 1117	Posted - 2014.04.04 15:35:00 - [12770] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: Spademan wrote: Scout Registry wrote: Please weigh in here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2022394#post2022394 There's no right or wrong position, and I'd very much like to hear everyone's opinion. Edit: Except for Quil. What if the cloak was split into two variants, a visual cloak and an electronic cloak? An electronic cloak? That would be so novel. I've never heard of something like that. Wait... you mean that thing called a "profile dampener" has existed for over 2 years? preposterous! Well yes, but active rather than passive and unaffected by the stacking penalties of the profile dampeners. Scan precision and range enhancers existed yet they still released the active scanner, I don't see why this is any more ridiculous. I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community

Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1960	Posted - 2014.04.04 15:41:00 - [12771] - Quote Scout Registry wrote: Please weigh in here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2022394#post2022394 There's no right or wrong position, and I'd very much like to hear everyone's opinion. Edit: Except for Quil. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2022602#post2022602 Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 2093	Posted - 2014.04.04 15:46:00 - [12772] - Quote Hmm, shouldnt the cloak/decloak sound be audible for everyone close to you? I think its a really important feature. This is the reason why the cloak is "OP". Drop it like its hat. I´m a fat scout. Do you even lift bro?
Murt Lesp Leviathan Battalion 144	Posted - 2014.04.04 15:53:00 - [12773] - Quote Never been so happy about my decision to invest in combat rifles as a scout. And Breach ScP is great for taking out those tunnel vision snipers. 3 in one nest, not one looked up as I took down their friends with a single headshot each Cloak is something like a new suit of it's own. It takes a lot of cpu and pg to use and it makes you dedicated to a certain role. Spare yourselves the headache and don't take the QQers seriously (as if we would anyway) The Leviathan has Awoken and in hungers That was an Execution - Pistol Headshot Kill
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 4037	Posted - 2014.04.04 16:15:00 - [12774] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: All you people complaining about hiding or spotting, my chocolate matari ass can't do either. XD Eh, you get your speed, stamina recharge and hacking. Seems like CCP don't want minmatar scouts getting into fights, even though they gave them the knifing skill bonus. GG CCP well played ;) Min Scout performs best when avoiding combat with scouts entirely. On the bright side, I still think it is the best at hunting med frames and heavy frames. Dem knives. That hack speed makes me a WP hore now too. I got my cloak and daggers, I'm a very happy Ghost I hack at Mach V
noob cavman Dirt Nap Squad. 1092	Posted - 2014.04.04 16:20:00 - [12775] - Quote Scout Registry wrote: Please weigh in here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2022394#post2022394 There's no right or wrong position, and I'd very much like to hear everyone's opinion. Edit: Except for Quil. Added my view on it. poor quill my brothr hating the vil lttr I want to be a caveman! Ccp: DENIED YOU DRUNK Gö+GöüGö+ n+¦pâ+(`-ö´)n+ën+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ FFX and X2 in hd GÖí
Llast 326 An Arkhos 2750	Posted - 2014.04.04 16:23:00 - [12776] - Quote Going to preface this post with the fact that I only took out my SG for one match last night, so I have no experience with SG and cloak. Before the cloak if I SG someone their tanked out ass would just turn and back peddle and shoot me with a Fine Rifle killing me, even though I had the element of surprise, and a better armour to shield damage ratio. Now with a cloak people don't do this? This also brings a question to mind that has been brewing since the Pyrex Swarm video. When you strip shields off with a weapon is it glitching out and counting the armour damage at the shield value? Example: I instadrop someones shield with a ScR charged shot, instead of doing 120% to shields and 80% when it hits armour, could it be doing 120% to both armour and shields? Then when hitting straight armour it is applying the 80%. The SG would benefit from this miscalculation as an alpha weapon, same with ScR and Ion Pistol when alpha charging. The ScP would be unless noticeable unless you are landing headshots. Armour focused weapons would see a diminished return, like the swarms who are applying the shield penalty to their damage even on the hit that breaks shield, same goes for the FG, FL, and MD. On the other side the CR and RR would not notice this as you are dealing with a stream of applied damage so the shield/armour transition would be broken up. Thoughts? Am I way off base here? KRRROOOOOOM
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 4039	Posted - 2014.04.04 16:24:00 - [12777] - Quote Spademan wrote: Scout Registry wrote: Please weigh in here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2022394#post2022394 There's no right or wrong position, and I'd very much like to hear everyone's opinion. Edit: Except for Quil. What if the cloak was split into two variants, a visual cloak and an electronic cloak? How about a tactical and assault cloak? (Both cloak like normal) Assault cloak has NO dampen bonus, has a short overall tank of energy, but decloaks faster than the tactical (1s instead of two). It also recharges faster The Tactical cloak HAS the dampen bonus, and has a very large tank of energy. Decloaks at 2s, and also takes longer to recharge. It also has greatly reduced shimmer while moving. Both cloaks can't fire until decloak finishes. Assault cloak does not require you to press R1 to uncloak. Tactical does. The Assault will Disrupt cloak if shot at (But only for a little bit), but the Tactical will COMPLETELY break cloak if hit (Its sensitive yo). Fluxes drain the battery of both cloaks. (And it should for other equipment too) One is built for combat, the other is for tactical insertion. Sound good? I am open to suggestions and changes btw. I got my cloak and daggers, I'm a very happy Ghost I hack at Mach V
noob cavman Dirt Nap Squad. 1092	Posted - 2014.04.04 16:24:00 - [12778] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: Going to preface this post with the fact that I only took out my SG for one match last night, so I have no experience with SG and cloak. Before the cloak if I SG someone their tanked out ass would just turn and back peddle and shoot me with a Fine Rifle killing me, even though I had the element of surprise, and a better armour to shield damage ratio. Now with a cloak people don't do this? This also brings a question to mind that has been brewing since the Pyrex Swarm video. When you strip shields off with a weapon is it glitching out and counting the armour damage at the shield value? Example: I instadrop someones shield with a ScR charged shot, instead of doing 120% to shields and 80% when it hits armour, could it be doing 120% to both armour and shields? Then when hitting straight armour it is applying the 80%. The SG would benefit from this miscalculation as an alpha weapon, same with ScR and Ion Pistol when alpha charging. The ScP would be unless noticeable unless you are landing headshots. Armour focused weapons would see a diminished return, like the swarms who are applying the shield penalty to their damage even on the hit that breaks shield, same goes for the FG, FL, and MD. On the other side the CR and RR would not notice this as you are dealing with a stream of applied damage so the shield/armour transition would be broken up. Thoughts? Am I way off base here? Imagine the first shot being a freebie and your secound being the true first shot. I want to be a caveman! Ccp: DENIED YOU DRUNK Gö+GöüGö+ n+¦pâ+(`-ö´)n+ën+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ FFX and X2 in hd GÖí
Yan Darn Science For Death 514	Posted - 2014.04.04 16:37:00 - [12779] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: So I have a question about countering scouts. On the scanning table it appears very hard to passively scan cloaked scouts, leading me to believe it is a worthless endeavour unless you are a cal scout. Then I watched one of CEO pyrex's vids where he was passively scanning cloaked scouts with a Gal scout. So I looked at the table again. Am I right in thinking profile values are rounded to the nearest whole number and ties favour the scanner? If so then contrary to the table scouts with 2 comp precision and logis with 3 can scan undamped, non-gal, cloaked scouts. I know passive skills will affect things as well. So in conclusion, in pub matches, do you think it would be worth fitting my min scout with a couple of precision mods, or my logi with 3? Or should I leave it to the cal scouts? I run one precison mod (and range amp) on my Gal. The scout spam in pubs means that there are enough non(maxed) gal scouts running about that it comes in useful. In particular if I'm tracking reds on my radar and one suddenly dissapears, I know there is a clacked scout heading in a particular direction that I can try and cut off. I seem to sneak up on scouts just as they activate cloak because of the heads up I get. Plus I've noticed a lot of scouts simply hide in between cloak charges, they are easy (stationary) targets I pick up. Obviously you still have to use your eyes, but Scouts have always been my worst enemy, so for me the cost/benefit is worth it. If and when scout numbers die down i'll reconsider having one as standard. The Ghost of Bravo
IgniteableAura Pro Hic Immortalis 815	Posted - 2014.04.04 16:37:00 - [12780] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: If you remove the bonus to damp then you ruin all the balance within scouts. A scout needs that bonus to remain hidden from cal scout scans. ... I find that post disingeuous at best, and hypocritical at worst. You seem to be implying, "oh, it's terrible to give caldari scout a benefit over other scouts", but you have no problem, I presume, with gallente scout having a stealth bonus over other scouts? Yeahhh.. no. Get rid of profile damping in cloaks . So then both gallente, AND caldari, will have their niches. (and logis can quit pretending to be scouts) If we remove the damp bonus it nerfs everything but the GAL scout. Then no scout has much of an option against prototype scanners and cal scout. There is no balance there, there are no counters. ITS ALWAYS BETTER TO BE UNSEEN. Thats also IMO should be the final counter; to be unseen. All other scouts would need to completely nerf their fit just so they aren't seen on the radar. Seeing other people on the radar is a huge benefit. HUGE. Its why there is so much damn complaining about the scanner changes and how scouts are "OP" Remove the Cloak bonus and you get a whole host of other problems. It would actually be nice if they could modify the bonus to apply as the shimmer does (the more speed the more profile) but that is probably unlikely, but perhaps the best solution. Scouts: To throw out some numbers, without the profile bonus all other scouts (w/o damp) besides GAL will be passively seen with a CAL scout without any precision mods. A Cal scout with 1 cPE will be able to see all scouts (w/o damp) To combat this, Gal scout will need to fit at least a basic damp and all other scouts will need to fit at least two damps. A CAL scout with 3 cPE is pretty much uncounterable except by using 4 damps or GAL scout. Med Frames: Can fit 2cPE and pick up nonGAL scouts without damps. Scanners: nonGAL would need to fit at least 2 damps to avoid GAL-logi proto scans and 4 damps to avoid focused GALlogi scans. So TL:DR on removing damp bonus -Creates another "permascanned" environment for nonGALscouts. -Makes the GAL scout even more powerful (unseen > seeing) -Ruins the counter/counter environment for healthy balance -The problem with cloak is being able to fire before fully visible. Im a cal scout, so go ahead and advocate for the damp bonus, I will have a freaking hayday with all of the scouts not running >3 damps, as you simply won't have a counter to avoid the passive scans. PHI Recruitment or PHIsh Tank in game Youtube



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