Chevron removal while cloaked and cloak inversion would probably go hand in hand. If the HP tanking becomes the go-to then other measures would come about as necessary. Impractical to start balancing for something that has not and cannot exist until the cause comes into play for the effect to happen. We don't know if it will happen, or what the extent would be, and hunches/guesses aren't good enough reason to hamstring or omit changes in anticipation of it being broken.

Dynamic EWAR is another factor to consider but it'd only work with the chevron removal: http://puu.sh/jNGQz/7e770ebd24.png Namely because it doesn't do much good to crouch and have lower profile just to have the dude walk up and spot your chevron like a sore thumb. Which, that being said, the chevron not working with the cloak would only work if you're not beaming blue because you're not moving.

So it's a long line of hand-holding when it comes to a re-worked cloak/ewar system.

As far as the delays, again I want to iterate that the choice to cloak should weigh heavily and it should be impractical to limit predator kills. You need to be specific in what the side effects are instead of saying that there are side effects. Only one person has elaborated as to a practical situation, in regards to escaping (choosing between pulling a weapon or sprinting), the rest is just mentioning that there are problems with the cloak delay without explaining what those problems are. Explain it in detail, please.

Only one person has elaborated as to a practical situation, in regards to escaping (choosing between pulling a weapon or sprinting), the rest is just mentioning that there are problems with the cloak delay without explaining what those problems are. Explain it in detail, please.

Chevron removal when cloaked:
I possibly underestimated how useful this would be in a group situation. I don't think it would be amazing, but may be useful in some situations.

Chevron removal while cloaked and cloak inversion would probably go hand in hand. If the HP tanking becomes the go-to then other measures would come about as necessary. Impractical to start balancing for something that has not and cannot exist until the cause comes into play for the effect to happen. We don't know if it will happen, or what the extent would be, and hunches/guesses aren't good enough reason to hamstring or omit changes in anticipation of it being broken.

Dynamic EWAR is another factor to consider but it'd only work with the chevron removal: http://puu.sh/jNGQz/7e770ebd24.png Namely because it doesn't do much good to crouch and have lower profile just to have the dude walk up and spot your chevron like a sore thumb. Which, that being said, the chevron not working with the cloak would only work if you're not beaming blue because you're not moving.

So it's a long line of hand-holding when it comes to a re-worked cloak/ewar system.

As far as the delays, again I want to iterate that the choice to cloak should weigh heavily and it should be impractical to limit predator kills. You need to be specific in what the side effects are instead of saying that there are side effects. Only one person has elaborated as to a practical situation, in regards to escaping (choosing between pulling a weapon or sprinting), the rest is just mentioning that there are problems with the cloak delay without explaining what those problems are. Explain it in detail, please.

How so?

It was suggested to me that, when a group including a cloaked scout is scanned, the scout may well appear on the radar, but the enemy would be drawn to the mercs with chevrons, not the cloaked scout, who could continue with the flank.

It was suggested to me that, when a group including a cloaked scout is scanned, the scout may well appear on the radar, but the enemy would be drawn to the mercs with chevrons, not the cloaked scout, who could continue with the flank.

No discussions atm for cloak swap changes. Probably won't be unless there's a really good argument as to why it needs to be changed, with current design intentions considered. That being that the cloak is a navigational tool and not a murder tool.

The two most discussed options to increase Scout viability are 1) No chevrons when cloaked 2) Dynamic profile (less when crouching, more when sprinting, etc). Removing chevrons doesn't offer much in itself because of the cloak mechanic working better when holding still, which sort of defeats the purpose.

That being said, it hasn't been discussed yet, but one of the proposals I have as an addendum is to reverse the cloak transparency effects to offer greater transparency when moving as opposed to holding still. This would increase the value of the 'no cloaked chevrons' feature substantially as you wouldn't be a sitting duck hoping the enemy doesn't know how to find the red dot on the minimap (pro-tip: he will).

Opens up a lot more opportunities for Scouts to do what they need to do. Setting up assassinations, stealth hacks, escape plans, etc. Just thought at the moment though, nothing set in stone. Recent changes with FoxFour unleashed a lot of new fitting options with Assaults, Logistics, and in some cases, Commandos. Scouts can be brought up in non-combat ways like these.

Obviously you should not think that these changes are by any means happening - just idle discussion right now.

If their is no talk of cloak swap changes how about just fixing it so you only get the delay when uncloaking not when uncloaked already and swapping from cloak... That mechanics is frustrating as all hell.

I can see that being helpful with undampened Scouts, but sufficiently dampened Scouts would (in the vast majority of cases) dodge the scans in the first place, right?

If Scouts are going to get a quick fix, I'd personally prefer something (anything) that'd equally benefit the squishy among us (i.e. those of us who run damps). Changes which encourage Scouts to HP tank or disproportionately benefit Scouts who HP tank make me uneasy. There's plenty enough incentive as is to run HP modules.

That's my two cents, at least.

What breaks if we retool the scout cloak bonus to a flat 75% fitting reduction rather than this step tier that allows you to fit a std cloak at scout leve 2 if you forgo modules?

What breaks if we retool the scout cloak bonus to a flat 75% fitting reduction rather than this step tier that allows you to fit a std cloak at scout leve 2 if you forgo modules?

^ precisely this, just in case it was unclear. Keep decloak delay where it is, but remove the equip/unequip/other delays. It'd make cloak operation a lot less clunky and would still prevent fire from cloak.

My problem with reducing cloak visibility is it is insanely difficult to spot even a running cloaky outside 20m unless your weapon reticle flashes red.

Huh. I wonder if the red reticle not working on active cloaks would do the job. It should really only work if the scout has been detected.

I'm leery of improving scouts madsively because of my own experiences with even my low skill scout suits. I have an easier time murdering people than I do in my sentinels without a cloak.

I don't think it would take much to push them over the top.

My problem with reducing cloak visibility is it is insanely difficult to spot even a running cloaky outside 20m unless your weapon reticle flashes red.

Huh. I wonder if the red reticle not working on active cloaks would do the job. It should really only work if the scout has been detected.

I'm leery of improving scouts madsively because of my own experiences with even my low skill scout suits. I have an easier time murdering people than I do in my sentinels without a cloak.

I don't think it would take much to push them over the top.

My problem with reducing cloak visibility is it is insanely difficult to spot even a running cloaky outside 20m unless your weapon reticle flashes red.

Huh. I wonder if the red reticle not working on active cloaks would do the job. It should really only work if the scout has been detected.

I'm leery of improving scouts madsively because of my own experiences with even my low skill scout suits. I have an easier time murdering people than I do in my sentinels without a cloak.

I don't think it would take much to push them over the top.

My problem with reducing cloak visibility is it is insanely difficult to spot even a running cloaky outside 20m unless your weapon reticle flashes red.

Huh. I wonder if the red reticle not working on active cloaks would do the job. It should really only work if the scout has been detected.

I'm leery of improving scouts madsively because of my own experiences with even my low skill scout suits. I have an easier time murdering people than I do in my sentinels without a cloak.

I don't think it would take much to push them over the top.

-snip-
If you're willing to hear options other than those you've provided, I'd be glad to offer my two cents:

Step 1 - Intra-Class Parity

-snip-

Step 2 - Inter-Class Parity

-snip-.

^ precisely this, just in case it was unclear. Keep decloak delay where it is, but remove the equip/unequip/other delays. It'd make cloak operation a lot less clunky and would still prevent fire from cloak.

Very true, though I would hope people would still want the benefit of being dampened to avoid radar totally. The chevron reduction would then just help against the anti-scout focussed scanner.

The direction is a bit wrong though. We are talking about a bonus that helps scouts survive when they are scanned, when the whole point of the scout is that they shouldn't be scanned.

I was relaying what had been said in game though. Some people may like the idea more than me.

Quafe.

I love my little dark box map...

Pepsi and Coca Cola cannot coexist.

Quafe.

I love my little dark box map...

RE: Inverting cloak visibility

Gtfo. You can not mix Pepsi and Coke, heathen.