I've seen few players who didn't have chevrons even if I had my sights directly at them.

At first there were minmatar and caldari scouts, so I though "wow, I bet they filled all their lows with complex damps".
This got me thinking that maybe when I'm running in 3 complex damps it looks the same to a very high precision (high meaning worse) dropsuit. After all, how could I check it? almost noone runs 3 damps in pubs and I rarely use medium or heavy frames.

But yesterday I got killed by a proto amar assault while shooting from a distance of about 20-30 meters.Again, no chevron.

You're not alone, my aim with the shotgun is so embarassing that I don't even bother with it anymore.

Peter v. Brett is a new author I recently discovered. So far finished book 1 the painted man and halfway through the desert spear. He is now up there for me with the likes of patrick rothfuss, brian mcclellan and sergi lukyanenko. Great fantasy.

Where the fck have you been?!

Are you comming back?

Changed the order to properly reflect the level of aggravation they're causing me when I play Dust. :/
Going directly from playing a shooter with decent fps (computer) and almost imperceptible input delay to playing Dust makes me feel a bit nauseous and unease, so I moved the ps3 to my computer monitor but that didn't help.

---

Yes, please. Application sent.

Though for UX reasons I do this as soon as I see the Gallente Lag Facility:
Quit, cancel, exit, sluta, leave, cease, drop out, close, terminate, stop, end, discontinue, resign, depart, abandon, desert, vacate, retire, give up... ... ...

But hey if nothing else I am happy to contribute with the whole PC warbarge command points or salvage or what ever.

But it is like everything else and you just press your fire button to use when equipped right?

Everyone seemed unanimous in the request to remove this map from PC rotation. It is so consistently bad, I can't imagine them not doing so.

IF they are requesting the pick up. Go right over them and a prompt will pop up saying to press circle to revive them. You can hit circle or equip the injector and then fire it all pulp fiction style in that chicks heart.
Sometimes the body will actually slide away from where the person really died some, so it screws up. Melee then try again, I usually hit circle over pulling the injector out personally.

PC lag- I kinda always got the city squad duty.
SO many :
Reset right before deploying into the warbarge
Suits to pc suits only
Chat channels the same
Some go as far as lowering the quality to that crappy 480p or whatever it is.

I used to reset but that was it. Bounce between the the pc channel and a couple others to bs while the pc was going on.

Continued.



Then there is a short section on tips from the barbershop which is mostly unedited. I say mostly because noob cavman does not know how to use an apostrophe.

NK Blue Flare 3x in one match on MN Assaults tonight.
(Ambush, Americas, 2015.02.07 03:49)

Also have the SP Cap problem Jolly described above.

???
NKs in Ambush are awesome!
NKs in PC are a different story : /

Yep, just flank the blob and collect easy kills. The only place NKs are bad is dom (Boy do I hate dom)

You must be on Eurasia servers. Dom here nothing but HAVs and locked down Heavy/Logi blobs, neither of which are particularly vulnerable to shanking. That said, I do get a good Dom match once in a blue moon.

Obligatory 'they must have figured out how to monetise them!'

Too much to list, Murt! It is all archived here:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=1775

Would recommend getting your boots on the ground and seeing things firsthand :-)
Some things to look out for:

Suits
* Assaults received massive buffs and are presently most popular suit; MN Assault is FoTM.
* Scouts were nerfed a few times and are (thank goodness) no longer FoTM.
* Heavies can still insta-spin and HMGs are push-button wins against untanked Scouts (so bring REs).
* Commandos are still the worst suit; Logis (especially Gal) are better than Logis are willing to admit.

Weapons
* Fine Rifles are largely balanced; the ASCR is UP, ScR is OP (but is less popular than the others).
* Sidearms are largely balanced.
* Grenades are now 2 instead of 3.

Gear
* REs show up on Active Scans and have an extended activation sequence.
* Cloak now renders its user EWAR blind and features a very long decloak delay.
* No more spamming Uplinks (or other EQ); active equipment is now limited by bandwidth.

Other
* Passive scans are now high intensity at close range to low intensity at long range (see chart on Page 1).
* SP cap was raised to unobtainable.
* Daily missions were added.
* Loyalty Ranks were added (largely an AUR-based measurement).
* Can now stack boosters and buy end-of-match SP bonuses
* Can now sell salvage and unwanted gear back to the market.
* Warbarges were very recently added; they'll be the framework for PC 2.0 (coming soon).


Did I miss anything, guys?

Do the AV Remotes work yet?
Was their price tag ever fixed?

If I remember back to my impressions picking up Minja again after running cal/gal scout pre-1.8 - yeah the stamina thing is the most noticeable I would say. Of course the NK damage too - you won't often OHK a heavy - I think even a basic heavy can easily run over 1150 HP (charged NKs, both swipes hit). But most other suits are going down.

I run advanced mostly too - I have three fits, one has 2x KC, one has KC + PD, one has KC + Ferros. Yeah I can't get enough of the speed either - 2x KC is my favourite as long as not getting scanned too often.

Proto Scanners are pretty good; the rest not so much.

What?
Plenty of people request pickup.

I'm thinking this will be a "combat cloak" geared more toward assault-styled play. No delays on activation/deactivation; short effect duration; moderate cooldown. It won't be a "Scout toy"; rather, it'll be something anyone can fit. As there's no change in visibility, you'll be able to "click it on" then do whatever you want for a 'bit (including killing) with a lessened profile. This will give dampened Assaults the ability to briefly duck GA Logi scans to pull off a flank attack or push into CQC range.

So I opened 5 Strongboxes today and got nothing out of them.

You know, other than a Quafe Shotgun.

I'm pretty sure it will work like this:

You select your desired maximum metalevel as you would select the gamemode you want to play. And then the game won't allow you to spawn in a fitting whose aggregated metalevel is above the one you have queued up for.
At least this would make sense in my head.

"Exploiting" this system by using BPO suits in the highest risk metalevel queue might be a possibility, though it is questionable if you can be effective enough in a BPO suit to reach enough WP to get a good share of the ISK rewards at EOM.

Ares

The reason that there aren't many people around is because of how the game modes are now. This game is too overwhelming for new players, and they never stick around.

Game modes with meta lock have the potential of growing the population longer term and benefiting players at all levels.

What may initially result in slightly longer wait times for non meta locked games, may ultimately result in shorter wait times if population increases, not to mention any number of other benefits (bringing in more money, which will result in more development, more competition at higher levels etc.)

Ares

You are right that neither of us know how this will play out, and a lot depends on how the payout system works.

I have also felt that ISK payouts in Pubs as it currently is also needs work.

I do see the meta lock at least a way for new players to get stomped less than what there is currently. Certainly skill is taken into account, and at a certain level it becomes less of an issue. I myself almost never run even ADV fits, and pretty much run Quaffe exclusively. I still however get the benefits of all my other core and racial suit skills that new players running similar gear may not have the advantage of.

If done correctly there is nothing that says all game modes can't prosper.

I personally would rather wait a little longer for a good game than get instantly put in a stomp. And FW times are goofy, where if you try it solo you have to wait forever, but I often get right in if I am with a full squad.

I fully expect there to be problems at first, but Rattati is pretty good about making adjustments once something new is in place and we can see what the actual problems are.

I realized - I have every suit but scout, all amarr, and I must fix this.

So, I'm getting the Amarr Scout - is that a good idea? and if so, why? If not, why also?

Posted my next Youtube vid. This one is most of a whole game...edited to FFWD through the boring bits. It's domination, and my fave fit for Domi is the Amarr Logi with a Plasma Cannon.

So in terms of analysing gameplay to see where I can do better, there ain't no bastardly sneaking around, nor is there any toe-to-toe assaulting. Just a bit of fun with a "Logi with a PLC".

Either way, you see me doing something stupid, be honest and tell me where I'm going wrong. I would love to get better at DUST - just try not to ridicule me :'(

Hopefully there will be many more vids to come over the next weeks and months...just figuring out some techniques and how to quickly and easily edit battles to get them up onto youtube quicker as well as (hopefully) keep an interested audience.

http://youtu.be/naaG-PoeFvs

Posted my next Youtube vid. This one is most of a whole game...edited to FFWD through the boring bits. It's domination, and my fave fit for Domi is the Amarr Logi with a Plasma Cannon.

So in terms of analysing gameplay to see where I can do better, there ain't no bastardly sneaking around, nor is there any toe-to-toe assaulting. Just a bit of fun with a "Logi with a PLC".

Either way, you see me doing something stupid, be honest and tell me where I'm going wrong. I would love to get better at DUST - just try not to ridicule me :'(

Hopefully there will be many more vids to come over the next weeks and months...just figuring out some techniques and how to quickly and easily edit battles to get them up onto youtube quicker as well as (hopefully) keep an interested audience.

http://youtu.be/naaG-PoeFvs

You spawnkilled me with those Ishoks (at a CRU)...

I guess that was revenge for me stabbing you in the face with ZNs while you attempted to pump a shotgun blast in me.

That was you?

Am I the only one that has the feeling that 30m passive scan range aren't really 30m but more like <10? What's up with that?

What the heck is going with Assault users wanting to buff themselves?
Isn't it a 'bit early for another Uprising 1.0?

Better bonuses
More slots
More HP / Speed
Cloak

He's referring to the Gallente and Caldari Assaults who would like to change their bonus to something that's actually useful.

His protest against it is rather amusing (and appaullingly hypocritical) given how he also supported changes to the Amarr Scout's bonus, even though they at the time were the best suits in the game and the Amarr Scout was/is a great suit

I expect he'd scale the Orbital Scale to account for reduction.

The biggest complaint against 4-man squads is the social aspect. If FW were rewired to pay good Isk and support larger squads, there would be no basis for this complaint. Provided good Isk payouts, FW could become and intermediate stage between Low Stakes Pubs and High Stakes PC.

Pubs - Up to 4 unit squads
FW - Up to 8 unit squads
PC - Up to 16 unit squads

Thoughts?

Knives go in the Primary slot

Thoughts?

EWAR Ideas
Damps - Reduce active scan duration (credit to Jebus).
Range Extenders - In bad shape, but can't buff 'em without nerfing Falloff inner ring.
Precision Enhancers - These are probably OK.

Biotics
MyoFibs - Add jumps (credit to Rattati).
CardRegs - Perhaps faster stamina regen (?).
KinCats - These are probably OK.

Other
Code Breakers - Move to Highs.
PG Extenders - Remove CPU req't and/or move to Highs.
CPU Extenders - These are probably OK.

Agreed, and that would've worked!
Wonder if it's possible?

The leap myofibs, combined with less backpedal speed is going make nova knives a lot more fun.

Next hot fix to have 90% backpedal speed!

The key will be to find a reliable middleman; there will be no shortage of them. Managing logistics will be a pain in the arse unless the transaction generates an automatic message. Example (in-game mail):

Date/Time: 2015.03.01 03:15
Sender: Bayeth Mal
Body: You have received [Dragonfly Scout Suit] x1 from Sender.

^ Mail isn't ideal, but it beats the heck out of (1) not knowing you've received something and (2) not knowing who sent it and (3) not knowing when it was sent.

@Ghost

People rage all the time about different things, ignore them and don't get worked up, it will just wreck your enjoyment in the game. That said, FA is full of scrubs :)

I would recommend you sync versus your own corp sometimes, FW works well. It makes for some fun matches and trash talking with friends. We would form two squads and have it out. It also has the added benefit of creating an enjoyable match for the blueberries when two good squads are fighting it out. Close battles are the best battles.

Considering that CCP has said something about adding notifactions...

And that I no longer have 10 million. (Like 4 million now. Perhaps I should just quit the blasted game.)

Not really surprising. Hey, at least we're getting updates! It means they haven't given up on us yet, completely!

This is a really good point, Kaeru. Without Rouge, there's a chance that Rattati would've never had opportunity to take the reigns.

Opinion: If all Rouge has done for Dust since FF was give Rattati the reigns and a chance, then Rouge has done more good for Dust than he has done harm.

Suit test:

adv minja

Basic sidearm damage mod.

Two enhanced shields.

Proto NKs.

adv bolt pistol.

Core granades.

Basic REs.

Proto Profile damp.

Enhanced ferroscale plate.

Wish sin luck. 07

Will jumpy myo's replace your precision enhancers in your highs? Does anyone other than me still use them?

Will you swap all shield extenders and said prec enh for jumpy's? Somethings gotta go especially if stacking.

I already fit a cloak
Suit is
Scout G-I
Shotgun
Breach Scp
Cloak
2 basic Ferroscale
1 Basix Dampener
1 Basic Precision

If we really want basic medium frames to be used at all then they have to have something the Assault suits don't have.

One idea I had was giving basic medium frames a second equipment slot -> make them an unspecialized blend between Assault and Logi.

They could do a bit of both but would be less effective than the specialized suits at either.

Also, since CPU/PG is tough on BMF, give them a 1% or 2% per level bonus to CPU/PG to make them competitive.

But then also make sure the Assault bonus is worth it! (I think the MN and AM Assault bonuses are fine but the GA / CA bonuses could use some work, if you want to believe the general forum chatter.)

Another idea ... I'm sure something like it has already been suggested:

Basic Med Frame
* -1 to 2 Slot
* +1 EQ
* 50% Isk Discount

Basic Heavy Frame
* -1 Slot
* +1 EQ
* 50% Isk Discount

Basic Light Frame
* +1 to 2 Slot
* -1 EQ
* 50% Isk Discount

---

+1 EQ for Assault might appeal to Assault users who don't like their current racial bonuses. EQ on a Heavy could certainly come in handy. Scouts were assigned a 2nd EQ slot to fit cloak, but they can't fit cloak until they specialize; so why not drop the specialization slot, and add a utility slot or two?

Breach Shotgun?

The problem is Basic MedFrames are absolutely useless and everyone hates them and wants to rather see them gone entirely than made viable. Everyone has to spec into them even though they don't want to use them and so the BMF level 4&5 only serves as a SP trap for people who don't have a clue that not everything you can spec into is actually worth it.

Still, I have yet to hear a really viable point against making BMFs less useless.


One point I hear the most is "oh if you make BMFs better then why would I want to use an Assault suit anymore?" BMFs are different from Assaults, a lot actually. They are clearly not just "Assaults without the bonus".

Assaults still have 100 base HP more, they have 1 high/low slot more, they have a bonus to handling of a racial light and sidearm weapon and they have a bonus to fitting of light, sidearm weapons, and grenades. They are and would still be all around better at slaying than BMFs. Better damage, better fitting, better tank.


Another one is "oh it will just be slayer logi 2.0". No, it won't. What made the slayer logis good was their f***ed up bonuses, native rep rate, and ability to use more and better modules than Assaults because Logis have more CPU/PG. But BMF have less fitting space than both Assault and Logis, no bonuses, and worse stats.

Logis would still have more high/low slots, more EQ slots, better fitting capabilities, better bonuses to certain equipments. If you want to do Logi stuff they would still be the better choice. I guess even tanking a proto logi is easier than a proto BMF.


Giving the BMFs an additional EQ slot will neither make Assaults useless, nor will it make running Logis less desireable.

But with an additional EQ slot all of a sudden we have a nice little niche for BMFs. They are better at doing Logi stuff than Assaults and better at assaulting than Logis. Creating a middle ground between the two for people who haven't decided yet if they want to specialize into Assaults or Logis.


The one thing I don't understand is all the hatred towards making BMF just slightly less useless. It is content that is just unused because it is not balanced right but instead of making it viable many people would prefer having less content. I just don't get it.

I'll trade you the quafe sg (I got two) for the forge gun

Added Original Bastards ...
Fusion, Demzor, Assert, Tosch, Judas, Tyjus, Ozarow, Aythadis, Snazz

Added a few Barbershop regulars
Ares, Murt, Blaziken, Dreis, Greiv, Steve

If you grinded isk for proto to use in pubs than you admit that you're a scrub who isn't good enough to roll in standard because if you were, you wouldn't have saved that money to be able to run proto in pubs.
The only valid reason to grind for isk is to pay poor people to do embarassing things or to blow on pointless gambling.
And bpo collection i guess.


The end is don't proto stomp you scrub.

If you have proto gear and want to use it, great. That's awesome. Go ahead and use it all you want. IN PLANETARY CONQUEST. WHERE IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE USED. Proto gear is END GAME equipment, use it in an END GAME activity. Pubs are EARLY GAME activity. It's where all the fresh mercs jump into straight out of academy. Don't use god damn proto there. Use it in FW if you want. Just not in pubs. If you want to play pubs, play it all you want, but use the appropriate gear for it.

It seems like there is no middle ground; those who get stomped whine about Proto, and those who stomp say that they are entitled to it.

Here's a thought: I like to win. If you don't like this, why don't you pull your own Proto out and come and stop me?

Would it surprise you though if I told you I support meta-locking pubs?

Agreed. Managing stomps via squad size is the better fix, IMHO. Examples:

Ambush - Max 4
Dom - Max 4
Skirm - Max 6
FW - Max 18

The only "problems" I believe it will cause, is for people who want to play proto suits in pubs.
If people cant play like that any more... that is NOT A PROBLEM :p


but regaurdless, making up fear stories is lame. they should just try it for a week and see what happens.

I don't want 3 versions on pub skirmish I want all pubs meta locked. You don't want meta lock then run FW pushing more players into FW the end game for those not interested in PC.

You guys have been chatty today


I take exception to this statement; The average stomper's goal is to maximize rewards at minimum risk. If low metalevel game modes didn't pay well in SP and ISK, as has been proposed by Rattati, most of the stompers will go elsewhere. Not all, obviously, but most, and I think that's the best we could really ask for.

Confirming that nobody has stones like a Minja that runs no HP mods

Small Stones

Just don't name any fits "Passing Stones"

Do none of you like RR scouts?

Using an RR with a scout works nicely because you can reposition very well.

In summary, this proposal is by-and-large a buff to the Scout class, and it shouldn't be implemented unless Scouts prove to be underpowered. My goal here is preparation. In the event that Rattati does come knocking, it will be good to have something in-hand. And it'll good to have already done all the barfighting in advance of his arrival.

---

Here's a recap of the all the changes in the current proposal (version 1.0):

Scout Class Bonus
Current: +15% cloak fitting reduction
Proposed: +15% cloak fitting reduction, +8% profile dampener efficacy

Cloak (std, adv, pro)
Current: 0%, 5%,10% active dampening
Proposed: 0% active dampening

Duvolle Focused Scanner
Current: Precision - 20dB
Proposed: Precision - 18dB

GA Scout Racial Bonus
Current: +2% base scan precision, +3% base scan profile
Proposed: +5% base scan range, -10% cloakblind effect

MN Scout Base Movement
Current: 5.65 m/s
Proposed: 5.80 m/s

AM Scout Racial Bonus
Current: +5% base stamina/recovery, +5% base scan precision
Proposed: +10% base stamina/recovery, +5% biotic module efficacy

CA Scout Racial Bonus
Current: +10% base scan range, +3% base scan profile
Proposed: +10% base scan range, +7% precision enhancer efficacy

---

As always, looking forward to your thoughts and feedback, gentlemen and bastards. o7

2.6% faster isn't a 3rd bonus; it normalizes the speed gap which separates Scouts from their Assault counterparts:

Before
Gallente: 9.00%
Caldari: 9.00%
Amarr: 9.38%
Minmatar: 6.60%

After
Gallente: 9.00%
Caldari: 9.00%
Amarr: 9.38%
Minmatar: 9.38%

---

Our class bonus is already cloak-based; I wouldn't want to double down on efficacy of an item that some might not even use. Shotgun efficacy could get interesting ...then again, GalScout shotgunners already dominate Scout PC usage. Giving them a bonus to shotguns might reinforce the meta we're trying to shakeup ...

Proposal v2 - Scout Racial Bonuses
CA - Base Range (+10%), Cloak Efficacy (10% less cloakblind)
GA - Base Range (+05%), Scanner Efficacy (10% faster cooldown)
AM - Base Stamina (+10%), Biotic Efficacy (+5%)
MN - Base Hacks, Knife Efficacy (no change)

Thoughts?

Looking at that data set, I expect to see light weapon sentinels making a comeback. There's been a much starker drop in HMG usage than Sentinel suit usage.

Not that I ever really minded it in the first place. Back when the HMG was trash and AR ruled all it was legit. It just made me laugh.

Never really understood all the rage about it TBH.

Though I have to say I am surprised Sentinels are as low on the chart as they seem to be... makes me doubt the data a bit.
Though that's "pieces sold" so if you're not dying you don't need to buy I guess.

Not quite ready yet to give up on cloak. It complements stealth play perfectly in concept; just needs a little polish.

I'm with you on this Kaeru
Pretty much my line of thinking as well.

Cloak was intended to set Scouts apart; we'd hoped that it would be built into the suit. Instead, we got two equipment slots; one for cloak and another for filling a battlefield role. Cloak is bad, but it still sets us apart. If cloak were to no longer set Scouts apart, what would? If cloak were to no longer sets Scouts apart, how would Scouts justify having 2EQ slots?

...


Do we want to trade out the 2nd EQ slot for another slot (for King HP)? How will we do heroic scoutly things, like cloaking away uplinks when our team is spawn trapped? What will set Scouts apart?

^ This is really important. The cloak still has room to evolve, especially when we start talking about the active dampener and the active jump height increaser. The cloak is the first in a new family of equipment that alters your suit's nature. I don't think breaking it open and spilling it all over the floor for everyone to use is the right thing to do.

And any suit that actually wants to fit the cloak, CAN fit the cloak. You get slightly gimped, but it's certainly doable. I've seen Logis and Commandos use the cloak on multiple occasions. Usually it's laughable, but the choice is there. I don't think we need to change the way it's setup in that regard. I am open to being proven wrong, though.

When will you be within 10 metres of an opponent? When you're going in for the kill if I'm not mistaken, and the cloak is something you really don't want out when closing in for a kill.
Hacking I suppose, but chances are if someone's around you'll get shot before they're within 10 metres.

I just can't see where it'd ever be an advantage, scanning is something you need to build a fit around, why ever compromise it with a cloak that wont hide you?

My only reservations with a class-wide dampening bonus:

* MinScout could become OP
* Leaves the GalScout without a meaningful role

If anyone wants to indulge my opinion on the matter of scout balancing:

I think that if you're going to want to make big sweeping changes like this then you need design goals. Goal-oriented design is one of the strongest methods in game design and it's the best way to keep on track. These suggestions are all over the place, and frankly I think they're pretty sloppy. I propose that we come up with some goals and parameters before we decide on any changes. By goals I mean intended final outcomes, and by parameters I mean rules that we can't violate with our suggestions. Shotty does do this a bit but I'm not sure it's enough. So let's do some brainstorming:

- I see lots of ideas here and some are better than others but a lot of them miss the point of the bonus system. ALL bonuses reinforce their given suit's overall role in its class. The sentinel bonuses all make the sentinels tanky and defensive, the commando bonuses all increase raw stopping power, the assault bonuses all increase combat flexibility, and the logistics bonuses all increase effectiveness with a certain type of equipment. Scout bonuses should therefore improve Scoutliness: Running, hiding, (passive) scanning, jumping, hacking, assassinating. Anything that doesn't pertain to that shouldn't be a bonus, and I think that also applies to bonuses that only apply to a single EQ or weapon. It's alright for Logis because that's the easiest way to specialize them, but it's not a good idea for scouts, and we already have a single-equipment bonus in the cloak bonus. Efficacy bonuses to REs or Shotguns or direct combat effectiveness are a bad idea full stop.

- I think that attempting racial balance and class balance simultaneously is a terrible idea. Establish racial parity within a class so that the entire class is evaluated at a similar/equal baseline, and then move forward with attempting to bring the class in line with the rest of suits (if it even needs to be brought in line at all.)

- If the suit already has a role, then we must not change that role unless absolutely necessary. I've seen this time and time again in multiplayer games with an iterative model of development: If you drastically alter or remove a niche that a significant portion of the playerbase already enjoys, then you have made a terrible mistake. I've been on the wrong end of this kind of change before, and it SUCKS. It's the kind of change that makes you want to quit the game, or at the very least makes you enjoy it much less. So that being said: Galscout needs to be the king of dampening, Calscout needs to be the king of range, and Minscout needs to be the king of hacking and knifing. If you change any of these roles there will be backlash, guaranteed. I think the Amscout's bonus can be reworked because, frankly, I doubt anybody but Amarr purists use the Amscout for anything.

- In the same vein, I think unnecessary sweeping changes to multiple things unrelated to the dropsuits is unnecessary. Cloak changes, dampener changes, scanner changes, etc should not be made unless they are absolutely the best option.

- Role bleed needs to be avoided. To me, this means ensuring that none of the scouts get any kind of bonus to direct combat efficacy, but the same probably applies to equipment bonuses.

- Finally, I think the consensus is that the order of effectiveness is Galscout > Calscout > Minscout >Amscout. Also - and this is obviously much more opinion-oriented so I'm open to debate - I think the balance of the minscout is the standard that the scouts as a whole should be balanced around. If not the minscout then probably the calscout, but I think it would be a lot harder to bring all scouts to the level of the calscout than it would to bring them to the minscout's.

So now we have our goals and parameters:

Goals:
- Bring racial balance to the scout class
- Do this without infringing on the role of other classes
- Bring all scouts in line with the minscout or calscout (?)
- Address galscout supremacy without drastically altering the suit
Parameters/Rules:
- Do not significantly alter or discard the niches of the galscout, calscout or minscout
- Do not alter non-dropsuit things unless necessary or for the best
- Do not implement bonuses which are not specifically focused on doing scout things
- Do not implement bonuses which only affect one weapon or equipment
- Do not implement bonuses which directly improve combat effectiveness
- No more than two bonuses per racial dropsuit (Rattati's Rule)

I think this is a fair list. You guys are fair to dispute any of the items on the list, though. In the mean time, my next post will be suggestions for balance with these goals in mind.

@ Pseudo

What makes the GA and CA more competitive than MN is that the former can beat 21dB Scans with 1 less damp. That's pretty much it. If the three needed the same number of damps to beat 21dB, they'd be very close to balanced. If the AM had a half decent bonus and needed the same, he'd be right there with them. The more I think about it, the more I think the key the Racial Parity will be found by (A) eliminating of the profile bonus or (B) duplicating of the profile bonus (i.e. class efficacy to damps).

"Scout bonuses should therefore improve Scoutliness: Running, hiding, (passive) scanning, jumping, hacking, assassinating. Anything that doesn't pertain to that shouldn't be a bonus ..."

In the spirit above, here's our best version yet ...

---

Proposal v5.1: Google Doc

---

Class Bonuses
* Fitting Reduction to Cloak (no change)
* Efficacy Bonus to Profile Dampeners (+8%)

Racial Bonuses
CA - Base Scan Range (+10%), Cloakblind Effect (-10%)
GA - Base Scan Range (+5%), Precision Enhancer Efficacy (+10%)
AM - Base Stamina (+10%), Biotic Efficacy (+5%)
MN - No Change

Other Items
* Remove cloak active damp bonus

Assumptions
* Scout class performance declines over Echo
* PC Usage: GA Scout > CA Scout > MN/AM Scout

Goals
* Counteract performance decline
* Achieve racial parity
* Equalize PC usage rates

Pseudo's Goals
G£ô - Bring racial balance to the scout class
G£ô - Do this without infringing on the role of other classes
G£ô - Bring all scouts in line with the minscout or calscout (?)
G£ô - Address galscout supremacy without drastically altering the suit

Pseudo's Parameters
G£ô - Do not significantly alter or discard the niches of the galscout, calscout or minscout
G£ô - Do not alter non-dropsuit things unless necessary or for the best
G£ô - Do not implement bonuses which are not specifically focused on doing scout things
G£ô - Do not implement bonuses which only affect one weapon or equipment
G£ô - Do not implement bonuses which directly improve combat effectiveness
G£ô - No more than two bonuses per racial dropsuit (Rattati's Rule)

---

Thoughts?

* Please provide specific numbers when commenting on GalScout Precision.

EWAR Table
Proposal Google Doc

Very conservative with hp. Much respect.

Should we present the proposal whether or not performance declines?

They reduced the cpu/pg of the cloak

for min scout it should have been a big help on PG but because so many min scout don't use cloak they don't realize it. I know it made a big difference for my std gal scout with glu-tac ar fitting. I can run adv cloak now instead of basic.

All deaths are legit, except spawn-kills, lag, and accidental TK's.

What about a guy that puts an RE on a link that he detonates when you spawn? There's no way you could have known, and as such, I don't think it's a legit death.

But yeah, I can agree with you if you get killed when you spawn on the only blue CRU on the map that's close to the enemy's redline.

i saw flank and thought from the side. its all good. for me all this extra information is awesome...for instance when i see 2 or more reds hacking a point i am charging up for the double kill and purely concentrating on landing both blades in the first place. i also assume that the first attack is free so why not charge em.

headshots i dont think about but now i think i wil esp. when thereGÇÖs heavys involved.

what adipem said about observing mr musturd i have also taken on board. its always been about the charge for me up to this point but actually there's more. perhaps charging versus quicker slashing and thrashing is akin to ADS versus hip firing with a gun.

might be time for a minja video...anything i can learn to make my fave suit and style more useful...and ive been having an identity crisis recently and mixing up all sorts of suits in the same games etc.

ps. if you are watching the vids...lemme know how much editing them would help...do you watch em all the way, fast forward, or switch off after a while?

ps. Kaeru you came 2nd in the knife competition. your input is valuable!!

kinda proves the saying
"Don't bring a knife to a gun fight"
LOL

If I remember correctly, Musturd also didn't hack things, which I find is something that makes you very vulnerable.

I am obviously bias, but I don't think the game rewards hacking enough, particularly when you hack a CRU and give your team some breathing room when redlined.

I think trying to push and hack objectives gets me killed a lot, especially when being stomped and reds are spread across the map looking for something to kill. This rarely happened when teams were evenly matched.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Personally I don't care about dampening, as a min scout speed is my winning factor, that and REs.....

The only reason you would absolutely need to use a Proto Cloak are:

1) You are using a std or adv Minja, and want to beat max Amarr Passive Scans. You need two Complex Damps AND a Proto Cloak active in order to do this.

2) You are using a Mk.0 and want to beat 15 dB active scans. You need three CDs AND Proto Cloak active in order to do this.

Everything else is subjective.

Cloak and dampeners work together. If your not using dampeners on a min scout then the cloak is a lot more useless. If your using dampeners on a min scout you now solved the PG problem since dampers use no PG. It is easier for my gal scout to stack reactive/feroscale armor than it is to dampen due to cpu. Add shield extenders or myo to the fit and my gal is now starved for cpu like a min is on pg.

Man, I would pay/trade a ton for a Methana BPO...

I think it was rolled out with the other TacNet changes in December.

Have tested (in previous builds) vehicle scan results -- they were shared with squad. I would assume that they're now shared with Team, but to my knowledge, this hasn't been tested. Also haven't tested whether or not "You've Been Scanned" is or isn't displayed when pinged by a vehicle scanner.

These are good questions :-)

Any particular part? Watched about 5 mins of entertaining tank v tank action with a few dead mercs thrown in...

Rolled around as a gunner in Haerr's Madrugar for a 'bit earlier today. Tank v Tank battles were alot of fun. Honestly can't comment on the state of V/AV -- spec'd out of swarms and haven't tried anything other than tossing REs -- but I did see Noob Cavman pop a G/1 with a PLC + Lai Dai combo.

Have noticed this.

sheild tanks not much problem to solo, tank with bunch of reps going. ether hope people on the team are helping/he is an idiot, or cuss him as he eats a few rounds of the plasma and the 3 nades. and just coasts off into the distance, does a lap then hits u again full health.

@ Ares

Had the same problem the other day, which caused me to finally give up playing for the night.

Duna and 4 of his tank buddies were spawn camping a CRU and the only objective we had.

I tried using cover, but they were able to get me above the wall, and between the rivets of the canopy. My PLC and pro swarms could do nothing.

I wasn't the only one there with AV, and they just picked us off like it was a carnival game.

I hope Rattati pulls out his AV fit and sees how it is. It is pretty bad.

TL;DR: Played all day. Lost a bunch of Isk. Didn't have fun.

What wasn't fun?

For me: Played loads yesterday. Lost ISK. Lost a bunch of matches. But had loads more fun than before the matchmaking changes.

Making ISK from PUB matches will be easier now than before on account of everyone in battle running decent fits instead of Militia Starter Sniper and AV fits.

I had errors while making it.

If you know of any way for me to correct the capitalization of my name, I gladly will as the current state vexes me.

That's exactly the point though. When PC corps use ringers to get the best 16 people, PC stops being fun. This is why only corp members should be allowed in the corp's PC.

I know some people might say 'Hurr Durr we're mercenaries; we should be able to fight for whoever pays us.', but that's what we do in pubs. We can fight for one NPC corp in one match, and fight against it in the next. Player-run corps are things we should be loyal to.

I lean toward, it will be insustainable to use a large percentage of ringers, a majority of the time. Really we just need a tunable CP cost factor per non corp non alliance member in battle

however, the ringer may just join the corp before battle and leave afterwards.

Do we need restrictions on such behaviour?

This is why recruiting temporary help should have a built in interface. A corps should have active recruitment and ways to pick up new players and permanently bring them under their wing, but they should also be able to issue contracts that can be fullfilled by other mercs.


IDEA

ExampleCorp doesn't have enough people to defend against an attack, so they issue a contract which becomes available in special contracts that can be fullfilled by those who meet the criteria.

The action of ISSUING this contract has a cost, in ISK, BMK or CP, whichever you prefer.

Meeting the criteria can become VERY interesting. We could create a rating system, have 3 star, 4 star or 5 star mercenaries based on ratings, or PC MU. The contract can be made out publicly, or to another corporation. True ringer only corps could be created by living off this system.

Interesting idea. I like the concept of it showing up in special contracts :) Might be better if a single corporation could accept/win the contract and then it only shows up in special contracts for that corp. As long as their is a CP cost (and maybe others) for creating these contracts it could work nicely.

How about no ringers, unless they are from your alliance. Would make smaller corps thinking of going into PC inclined to join alliances.

Have 30 minutes to play \o/
That's enough time for 2 Ambush matches; 3 if I'm lucky ...

3:30 - Turn on PS3
3:31 - Fire up Dust.
3:32 - Searching for battle. Solo. Ambush.
3:38 - Six minutes have passed; still searching for battle.
3:39 - Finally get into a match! Load screen ...
3:39 - "Mission Failed. Clone Reserves depleted ..."
3:40 - Complaining on Forums (still waiting to return to MQ).

20 minutes left to play. Still haven't fired my gun once.

3:43 - Returned to MQ.
3:45 - Finally get into a match. Me and 6 bads vs their 11 (two 3-man squads on their side).
3:50 - Try to carry the dots for a 'bit. A hopeless waste. Leave battle.
3:52 - Deployed. 20 clones left to their 48. Leave battle.
3:55 - Deployed. Good fight. Down to the last clone.

Last week was great. Not sure what's up. But like the guys said, better matchmaking tomorrow is well worth a little butthurt today.

Sucks for anyone who hasn't paid. I've been here since open beta and I'm only at rank 2. Meaning they're preventing me from trading for no good reason.

On a related note, looks like my 2nd and 3rd characters on my primary account have a Loyalty Rank similar to that of my main. I expect that folks will be able to farm experimental weapons, barge components and golden keys from second and third memes for transfer to their main.

At least the extent of farming will be limited.

Shoutouts to Admonishment, One Eyed King and Shotty.
o7

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh7nv_2LZZs

our last FW of the night, from my POV. This is what happens when I squad lead, I sit there, die a lot, and talk too much !
XD

I've only had one good Dom match since Scotty 2.0. Lots of good Skirm and Ambush though.

You got a BPO from salvage!?

I think that I'm thoroughly sick of matchmaking and everything related to it.

Maybe in the 31940832th iteration of matchmaking it'll be decent. Maybe then.

Based on my observations and testing that mach disparity is much more about player behavior than match making.
Within the sample of games I played ~60 for the testing only 2 had a team disparity of greater than +/-2 before players began to leave match. Within that same sample there were 4 matches that had less than 14 on each side.

Now this weekend has been an exception to all of that, the internal errors and server issues have rendered the game nearly unplayable at times and the matches lopsided and largely empty. All of that is a mess to be sure, but isn't due to the MM logic.

I agree with you on Dom however, it is a mess even without the server errors going on. It's a strange twist but the nature of Dom has made it so that the more evenly balanced the teams the more lopsided the majority of the match tends to be.
Granted part of that is just players leaving, but part of that is simply how Dom is built with a single static point as the center of the action. Hopefully the new acquisition mode will not fall prey to these shortcomings.

Yes, please!

Agreed.

And they should also have some minimum you get if you spawn in at the end of a match. Just to soften the blow.

which is?

Min Scout > all.

But I'm a bit biased.

I think the issue not only comes from the part that you don't have someone for backup, it also might stem from the fact that you're trying too much to kill somebody.Maybe try keeping >100m distance and hacking stuff around and dropping links?

But I'm no expert in survival, I tend to die a lot, decided to buy a apex scout just to make some ISK from time to time ;P.
Sometimes I get into mood to at least kill one guy (in my 300-400 hp fit) from that 6 man blob just ahead before I go down.

Sometimes I even get a kill out of a crazy situation like that and instead of running away succesfully I constantly try to push my luck with trying to kill another one. 90% of the time it ends with my gruesome death.

Apart from that I think a scout works only with a squad to max his and his team profits.

When I started playing this game I thought of them like a different kind of logi. Nearly useless without a team, but gives great advantage when used properly by other squadmates.
Later I discovered that the only "tool" in exchange for low survivality/slots/cpu&pg was supremacy at having radar pointers of where you're enemy is and hiding from other people's radars.
After that, active scanners happened, later cloak, which are usable by any suit so yeah...

Enough of baked rant, hope anyone understands what I'm trying to convey here.

I just have one more question..

What's scouts role in this game? (that's scout-only)

apart from almost having a heart attack running with knives in a room full of heavies when noone sees you yet? (i love that feeling)

Post your fit, and I'll post mine

GalLogi Level 5!

No idea what I'm doing, but I plan to keep you Bastards posted :-)

It's maybe not as nefarious as it sounds. I just like the name.


It's a spreadsheet with all forumites above 1k likes on it, with colour coding according to how I value their opinion and notes on their class, notable bias for/against, factional alignment, positions on certain topics, leaderboard stats, and a record of particularly excellent or stupid posts.


Some people are just highlighted red all the way through with 'Stupid posts - Everything ever posted' e.g. Spkr, Dreis, and Taka.


EDIT: It developed out of a minor idea I had for maintaining the LUCEC banlist. I had a spreadsheet where I had people on the banlist and reasons for why they were banned and I kept adding more and more until I realised I could just revamp it and use it as an appropriately mighty tool for the Supreme Forum Warrior.

Is the ARR thing referring to the glitch where you can permafire rail weaponry with zero sound, perfect accuracy, no recoil, and not lose ammo?

Okay.

I've appropriately censored all the information though.

http://i.imgur.com/Wn24xyq.png

How did you guess?

Windows 8?

Gross.

Quil!

Tell me of your factional loyalties.

And who are you to decide what is FoTM?
We now have someone who knows to look at data and looks for our help to interpret it, AKA Rattati.
Community lynching is no longer needed for things to be done. This isn't the old CCP Shanghai where until everyone screamed from the top of their lungs nothing was done.

Until he says something, assume the item is balanced, because otherwise he would see the data is showing its performance is a clear outlier and he will mention it to the community.

While I can see where you're coming from, I think Rattati does things in a reasonable time frame.
It's honestly a matter of expectations, there isn't right or wrong here.

As far as the Min Assault, I don't need Adipem to explain it to me.

You see, the HMG example is actually an example of Rattati looking at the data, seeing that something is wrong with the HMG, and trying to fix it.
The fact that he was too soft with it doesn't change how he identified there is a problem, and attempted to fix it.

Once he identifies there is a problem, it is our job help him find the best solution.
Until we get access to the data and tools ourselves, it is Rattati's job to identify these problems, not ours.