Inform enemies of the scan attempt and whether or not it was successful

No, my assertion that all other modules in this game are based upon a STANDARD design philosophy that only two types of modules break, shield HP and armor HP modules.

It is further reinforced by the fact that CCP has knowlingly designed suits that certain modules are just downright useless on. Your assumption that the"assault scout" as a viable playstyle is 100% opinion and with numerous counter examples in CCP game design. For instance, on heavy suits(i.e. commandos and sentinels) damps, scan range and scan precision mods are next to useless because of the incredibly poor base stats of these suits. Actually, Scan range mods are more or less useless on all suits but the scouts.

You also convieniently skip over the fact that the "assault scout" is hands down better than an assault is given the current meta. The "assault scout" can come within ~1-200 eHP while having greater scan radius, scan precision, profile dampening, movement speed, sprint speed, strafing speed, jumping ability, stamina pool, stamina regen, shield regen and an extra equipment slot. This suit is only competitive because of the ludicrous amount of relative HP a scout can get from set value armor plates.

No, we do not need a jack of all trades, master of most suit (what the scout is now). We need a return to suits competing with eachother (stat wise) within their own class, as all of the rest of the suits do. Your argument stems from the belief that you would increase fitting options for one class of suit, you totally disregard the fact that having one suit class that is superior to another in nearly every facet destroys variety it doesn't increase it. You rally for less of a meta, not more of one.

Scout suits should be just that... scout suits. Just like how logi suits should be logisuits and assault suits should be assault suits and so on. The great fitting system that we have allows a large variety of fits within each class, and yes to allow each class to perform (with lesser efficiency) roles it is not intended for. Absolute value HP modules directly contradict that.

Base stats SHOULD matter.

EDIT: Or are you arguing that there should be a "Scout sentinel" role?

Then the gal will need to run 2 damps to get under the cal scout.

Did you not read my proposal?

Honestly after much much playing I'd rather no scout get the nova knife bonus. It's not a universally effective bonus. It's awesome but outside of pubmatches you can't knife people. Knifing skilled players is ridiculously hard even for people who run them all the time. They're unreliable (hit detection / narrow FOV) and too easily countered (back pedaling and bunny hopping counters knives and breaks hit detection). Though the bonus is fun you're still bringing a knife to a gunfight. That's just my opinion though. I love the knife bonus but the knives themselves are simply just "fun" and not practical in their current form.

I'd like to see a minor tweak to myrofibrils so running one is more worth it if this was the case. Not sure what the math would work out to if Minnies got a bonus to hand to hand. ~400 ehp is about the minimum amount of a health a scout should have in my opinion. Anything less than 300 shields plus the 80 armor on a proto suit just makes it an expensive casket because you'll just get instapopped by everything otherwise. There needs to be a happy medium of both fun and practical.

As for the amarr suit really that's usefulness comes down to how useful reactive and ferro's are after their tweaks.

You are right about PC being a very narrow pool of players but it is the only mode we have a team deploy on. Full team modes where people are more likely to coordinate and play tactically are where they should be gathering relevant data.

edit: just read oswald's earlier post about moving bonuses to the modules and totally agree with it.

Read post #86
You only need 1 damp to hide from non-precision mod using Cal scouts and normal prototype scanners that aren't being used by the Gal logi, which also has a role bonus towards scanning (passive vs active), and 2 if it is being used by a Gal logi. If you want to be able to hide from a Gal logi using a prototype focused active scanner or a cal scout using 2 precison mods with only 2 damps on a scout that does not have a bonus towards dampening, you're just asking for too much.

I also support removing shared passive scan. I would support having waves of opportunity from from cloak modules only if standard cloaks started off with a 0% dampening bonus and a higher percentage for adv and pro cloaks like Rattati suggested. This would alleviate the brick tanking scout w/ super low profile problem and still allow people to get a waves of dampening opportunity by using higher tier cloaks. Not every scout needs to be perfect hiders like the Gallente, they each should have their own roles other than dampening.

stuff.

That is really not true; scouts aren't as squishy as they were before 1.8 and non Gallente and Amarr scouts have usefull scouty roles such as hacking, scan precision, knife damage, and scan radius.




Read post #86
You only need 1 damp to hide from non-precision mod using Cal scouts and normal prototype scanners that aren't being used by the Gal logi, which also has a role bonus towards scanning (passive vs active), and 2 if it is being used by a Gal logi. If you want to be able to hide from a Gal logi using a prototype focused active scanner or a cal scout using 2 precison mods with only 2 damps on a scout that does not have a bonus towards dampening, you're just asking for too much.

I also support removing shared passive scan. I would support having waves of opportunity from from cloak modules only if standard cloaks started off with a 0% dampening bonus and a higher percentage for adv and pro cloaks like Rattati suggested. This would alleviate the brick tanking scout w/ super low profile problem and still allow people to get a waves of dampening opportunity by using higher tier cloaks. Not every scout needs to be perfect hiders like the Gallente, they each should have their own roles other than dampening.

There was another point brought up about how the Gal logi's bonus shouldn't overlap with Cal scout's bonus. The thing is, there are two types of scanning and they get a bonus to one and each has their own pros and cons.

Passive scanning
Always on with no cooldown
Targets stay scanned as long as they stay in your scan radius
360 degree scans
Short range
Doesn't inform enemies of the scan attempt
Doesn't take up an equipment slot
No PG/CPU cost
Can still move/interact normally

Active scanning
There's cooldown
Targets stay scanned for at least 10s after
low degree scans
Longer range
Inform enemies of the scan attempt and whether or not it was successful
Take up an equipment slot
Costs PG/CPU to fit
Can't do anything else besides walk while scanning

The arrow over their head is brighter :P

Not like they can't equip more than just 1 active scanner, including the type. It's equipment slots, not high and lows like scouts need to use. Thus you don't lose your survivability (hp) to perform scans.

We have to equip multiple modules to make our passives worth a ****, otherwise any medium with a brain can counter our passives.

We are still open to simple suggestions. Most of what I read here is "do you even PC scout bro" and "you have to completely redesign the whole ewar/scout ethos". We are not going to do that.

We already changed the proposal to have a progression in dampening: STD/ADV/PRO 0%/2.5%/5.0%.

It seems to me that reducing the dampening bonus of the GA scout, or changing it to duration can level the scouts viability.

And I want to remind you that scout use is more than 50% Gallente, meaning the others are around 15% each. .

Cyrius Li Moody, as the most vocal opponent, and the rest of you as well :). Do you want to contribute and propose a simple change to the scouts, which was the purpose of this thread.

In this form with fake examples.

MM r.ex.r un speed %
AM f.ex. ehp bonus %
CA is fine
GA f.ex. reduce dampening bonus %

We are still open to simple suggestions. Most of what I read here is "do you even PC scout bro" and "you have to completely redesign the whole ewar/scout ethos". We are not going to do that.

We already changed the proposal to have a progression in dampening: STD/ADV/PRO 0%/2.5%/5.0%.

It seems to me that reducing the dampening bonus of the GA scout, or changing it to duration can level the scouts viability.

And I want to remind you that scout use is more than 50% Gallente, meaning the others split the 50%.

Cyrius Li Moody, as the most vocal opponent, and the rest of you as well :). Do you want to contribute and propose a simple change to the scouts, which was the purpose of this thread.

In this form with fake examples.

MM f.ex. run speed %
AM f.ex. ehp bonus %
CA is fine
GA f.ex. reduce dampening bonus %

I just want to plead, please, do not chnage the galscout bonus to something that requires the cloak.
Perhaps to efficiency of Profile damps?
Or, instead of putting down the Gal, bring the others up? (Also, the Assaults need a pass, else it'll stay skewed)

We are still open to simple suggestions. Most of what I read here is "do you even PC scout bro" and "you have to completely redesign the whole ewar/scout ethos". We are not going to do that.

We already changed the proposal to have a progression in dampening: STD/ADV/PRO 0%/2.5%/5.0%.

It seems to me that reducing the dampening bonus of the GA scout, or changing it to duration can level the scouts viability.

And I want to remind you that scout use is more than 50% Gallente, meaning the others split the 50%.

Cyrius Li Moody, as the most vocal opponent, and the rest of you as well :). Do you want to contribute and propose a simple change to the scouts, which was the purpose of this thread.

In this form with fake examples.

MM f.ex. run speed %
AM f.ex. ehp bonus %
CA is fine
GA f.ex. reduce dampening bonus %

I spoke with hans and let him have the numbers to support this.

Until you can get around to a proper e-war balancing act, which a few of us have been discussing at length on how to accomplish properly in the least amount of steps, please consider making the damp bonus on the cloak 10% at proto level, which would allow a min max min scout to get under all scans.

Alternatively, if you ARE open to making SOME e-war changes I strongly suggest you look at the proposal by gimble and tech about changing the bonuses to gal and cal to be % based bonuses to modules.

We are still open to simple suggestions. Most of what I read here is "do you even PC scout bro" and "you have to completely redesign the whole ewar/scout ethos". We are not going to do that.

We already changed the proposal to have a progression in dampening: STD/ADV/PRO 0%/2.5%/5.0%.

It seems to me that reducing the dampening bonus of the GA scout, or changing it to duration can level the scouts viability.

And I want to remind you that scout use is more than 50% Gallente, meaning the others split the 50%.

Cyrius Li Moody, as the most vocal opponent, and the rest of you as well :). Do you want to contribute and propose a simple change to the scouts, which was the purpose of this thread.

In this form with fake examples.

MM f.ex. run speed %
AM f.ex. ehp bonus %
CA is fine
GA f.ex. reduce dampening bonus %

We are still open to simple suggestions. Most of what I read here is "do you even PC scout bro" and "you have to completely redesign the whole ewar/scout ethos". We are not going to do that.

We already changed the proposal to have a progression in dampening: STD/ADV/PRO 0%/2.5%/5.0%.

It seems to me that reducing the dampening bonus of the GA scout, or changing it to duration can level the scouts viability.

And I want to remind you that scout use is more than 50% Gallente, meaning the others split the 50%.

Cyrius Li Moody, as the most vocal opponent, and the rest of you as well :). Do you want to contribute and propose a simple change to the scouts, which was the purpose of this thread.

In this form with fake examples.

MM f.ex. run speed %
AM f.ex. ehp bonus %
CA is fine
GA f.ex. reduce dampening bonus %

Again with people not understanding the game mechanics. No scout can avoid cal scans with 2 complex precision enhancers without at least 2 damps, PERIOD. UNLESS they use a cloak. Which then gives them a wave of opportunity to hide without completely compromising their fit for it.

Current numbers (rounded up because thats how game mechanics work):
Cal w/ 2cPE: 18dB
Gal w/ 1cPD: 18dB (scanned) ---------> Activate cloak (not scanned)
Cal/Amarr/Minnie w/ 2cPD: 18dB (scanned) ------------> Activate cloak (not scanned)

Any Cal scout running 2cPE is a squishy target ~300 shields. EVEN more so if they are running range amps (<400hp). They currently can't hide from other cal scout scans either. So cals have three counters. Another cal scout, OR a gal scout or proto logi scanner.

Lastly, a scanned scout is a dead scout. As soon as I am getting scanned frequently I switch roles to a heavy or Gal scout.

The current scanning system is the most elegantly balanced system we have in the game and it works in its current form. You have counters and counters of counters and final counters and waves of opportunity. No other system in the game give you this sort of balance.

Since it is so elegantly balanced, why are gallente scouts predominant [no troll].

My problem is by changing this one thing you have change so many other things. There's no magic bullet for this. It seems like you're making this far more complicated than it should be because "this is the way it's going to be." I really don't understand this mindset. However--

The most simple way:
You'll need to change all scout suits base precisions so that with a max of 2 complex damps (caldari only has 2 lows) and a proto cloak active every scout can get under a gal focus scanner. You'll have to adjust the Gal's bonus for this accordingly so it doesn't get too low when it scales with all it's skills applied.

As for the Gal and Cal, move their bonuses to modules but have them at the same effectiveness as they do now so players have to equip them to use the bonuses.

Also you'll need to buff the Minmatar's PG because you are not going to fit a proto cloak on that thing. You can barely fit an adv cloak at proto level as it is with two damps.

You guys are making this way too hard on yourselves. There are a lot of things you're going to need to rebalance and a lot of numbers to crunch. I definitely feel as if you guys are taking the wrong approach to fix this problem and are going to cause more by taking this route.

Since it is so elegantly balanced, why are gallente scouts predominant [no troll].

And I want to remind you that scout use is more than 50% Gallente, meaning the others split the 50%.