DUST Search - [Feedback] Gallente scouts

CCP Rattati wrote:

Ok, scouts, please come back to me on this problem, exactly as I word it.

Here is the premise

1) I want to encourage stealth players to go to proto cloak
2) GA scout will be the only scout that is completely unscannable
3) Not let GA scouts be the only stealth scouts and use cloaks

So, I have been told, I can verify when I am back at work, that if we change the cloak to be at 10% dampening instead of 5% at PRO, at least 3 stealth scouts are viable with cloak, GA, CA and MM. I think that's fine, I don't think everyone should be equally good at everthing. Amarr will get a look soon.

Max scan precision from CA scout is 17 (if my math is correct), terribly close to 16.

Since I want the only thing to beat the 100% dedicated scout scanner to be a 100% dedicated stealth scout.

A triple complex dampened, GA scout with a cloak at the new 10% level is at 13.5 or 14 dB.

That means we can reduce the GA Scout bonus to 15% from 25% and still stay under the CA scout at 15.3 or 16dB.

Thereby forcing the dedicate GA scout to sacrifice a low in most cases, so that he can't spend it on armor.

For the coup de grace, we can reduce the range of the CA passive scan a little bit because it's unnecessarily good.

Please respond to this in a civil manner, we are actively trying to listen and adapt our proposals based on your feedback.

I am King of Kish, Lagash, Umma, Uruk, overlord of Sumer, Elam, Mari, and Yarmuti

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 [16] 17 18 19 20 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 25 post(s)
BlazeXYZ xCosmic Voidx Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 5	Posted - 2014.05.24 15:33:00 - [451] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: BlazeXYZ wrote: Basically proves that gallente logi is the all mighty scanning machine beating the caldari scout. Is this what you call balance to the game. facepalm The cal gets 14.91 DB (rounded to 15) the gal focused it 15db Who would sacrifice their whole effing high slot just for precision enhancers. A piece of one equipment doesn't need that much of a sacrifice. Gallente logi still wins. Blaze
Zatara Rought General Tso's Alliance 3224	Posted - 2014.05.24 15:34:00 - [452] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: Cal scouts can get to 15, but requires their entire fit, as opposed to a single piece of equipment. Okay, so you have four slots or a 360 perma wallhack with 37 meters of range without adding range mods. or that niche specialization that allows that piece of equipment to POTENTIALLY scan a scout for 6.25 seconds You lose out on duration, at least 300 degrees of coverage, and cannot paint targets reliably. with 4 equips (to the 4 slots on the cal 360 perma wallhack) you only get 25 seconds of a minute along with all the other downsides. CEO of FA, Candidate for CPM1 Follow me on twitter Skype Zatara.Rought
Zatara Rought General Tso's Alliance 3224	Posted - 2014.05.24 15:38:00 - [453] - Quote BlazeXYZ wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: BlazeXYZ wrote: Basically proves that gallente logi is the all mighty scanning machine beating the caldari scout. Is this what you call balance to the game. facepalm The cal gets 14.91 DB (rounded to 15) the gal focused it 15db Who would sacrifice their whole effing high slot just for precision enhancers. A piece of one equipment doesn't need that much of a sacrifice. Gallente logi still wins. it's called min maxing. I do it every PC to make sure I have the best chance of picking up anyone entering the city. CEO of FA, Candidate for CPM1 Follow me on twitter Skype Zatara.Rought
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13708	Posted - 2014.05.24 15:41:00 - [454] - Quote BlazeXYZ wrote: Who would sacrifice their whole effing high slot just for precision enhancers. A piece of one equipment doesn't need that much of a sacrifice. Gallente logi still wins. A lot of people in the competitive environment equip full racks of precision enhancers all the time. I'm not really sure why the Gallogi is even considered relevant in an EWAR discussion. The focused active scanner is so generally bad compared to an always on 360 Calscout scan that it's stupid to use one. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Cross Atu for CPM1
IgniteableAura The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 1165	Posted - 2014.05.24 15:50:00 - [455] - Quote Actually current proposal is fine if the numbers are true. rather than Rattai's statement (3 damps + cloak). Gal scout only needs 3 damps to remain hidden, no cloak. Cloak has no bearing on any meaningful counters except at proto level against a gal logi focused scans with nongal scouts. The proposal won't change gameplay much for true scouts. Other than the need to fit a damp instead of fit cloak. Making brick tanking less viable. Youtube
Zatara Rought General Tso's Alliance 3225	Posted - 2014.05.24 16:03:00 - [456] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: Actually current proposal is fine if the numbers are true. rather than Rattai's statement (3 damps + cloak). Gal scout only needs 3 damps to remain hidden, no cloak. Cloak has no bearing on any meaningful counters except at proto level against a gal logi focused scans with nongal scouts. The proposal won't change gameplay much for true scouts. Other than the need to fit a damp instead of fit cloak. Making brick tanking less viable. Success!!!!!!!!!! Huzzah! CEO of FA, Candidate for CPM1 Follow me on twitter Skype Zatara.Rought

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 1696	Posted - 2014.05.24 16:21:00 - [457] - Quote Yes I think we are done here. Thanks for the awesome feedback, I hope we can all be happy with this discussion and how it sets the bar for future dev-community interaction. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

SHANN da MAN D3LTA FORC3 C0VEN 244	Posted - 2014.05.24 16:39:00 - [458] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: To recap and please don't derail this Cloak Dampening 0-5-10 STD-ADV-PRO MM, AM, GA are unscannable if PRO cloaked with additional dampeners. what does the GA scout dampening bonus of 25% need to be reduced by so GA scouts still have an advantage as the best stealth suit, without being OP? Take into account that the 3 hp/s is also making it very OP and that may be reduced and/or eliminated as well. Please only answer that question for the time being. Thanks Change GA Scout Dampening Bonus from 25% to 10%-15%. Also change GA Innate Armor Repair from: 3hp/sec for GA Light/Scout 2hp/sec for GA Medium/Assault/Logi 1hp/sec for GA Heavy/Commando/Sentinel to: 1hp/sec for GA Light/Scout 2hp/sec for GA Medium/Assault/Logi 3hp/sec for GA Heavy/Commando/Sentinel (edit) oh crap! I'm too late ... Rattatti closed the discussion 18 min ago ... nothing to see here ... move along
IgniteableAura The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 1166	Posted - 2014.05.24 16:55:00 - [459] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: Actually current proposal is fine if the numbers are true. rather than Rattai's statement (3 damps + cloak). Gal scout only needs 3 damps to remain hidden, no cloak. Cloak has no bearing on any meaningful counters except at proto level against a gal logi focused scans with nongal scouts. The proposal won't change gameplay much for true scouts. Other than the need to fit a damp instead of fit cloak. Making brick tanking less viable. Success!!!!!!!!!! Huzzah! Well if the purpose is to make cloaking somewhat niche. Adv cloak provides no tangible benefit other than increased time over basic. Pro cloak is only useful to non-gal scouts for undetectable builds. Cloak will go into the pub only bin after hotfix. PC meta will remain largely unchanged. Gal scouts currently need to fit 2 complex damps to remain hidden, so after hotfix they will need to fit three and won't have cloak to rely upon for its damp bonus allowing them to use those two equipment slots for something else. RIP Cloak. Sad scouts have a role bonus to something that won't likely be used in competitive play. Youtube
Mountain Doody Brave Bunnies Brave Collective 42	Posted - 2014.05.24 17:00:00 - [460] - Quote please fix stats including cpu/pg and slot layout on Black Eagle scout suits

Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 883	Posted - 2014.05.24 17:02:00 - [461] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: Rattati read my post above yours. Basically states answers to your current changes. Why should a scout sacrifice their ENTIRE fitting just to remain hidden from a single piece if equipment. To not have his cake and eat it too. The CA scout decided to specialize and sacrifice their whole fit to find scouts. The GA scout decided to specialize and sacrifice their whole fit to escape all scanning. Not to mention, it is not his entire fitting, there is a high and a low slot available if I am not mistaken. Rattati please consider the fact that one cal scout in a squad of six can sacrifice his fitting to scan and negate an entire team unless they dampen. Squad vision gives the cal scout a huge bonus that you seem to be ignoring. CCP continues to make the wrong choices, one choice at a time.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 754	Posted - 2014.05.24 18:38:00 - [462] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Yes I think we are done here. Thanks for the awesome feedback, I hope we can all be happy with this discussion and how it sets the bar for future dev-community interaction. Was something changed ftom the original proposal? How about a TL:DR then? Because, that's why.
Haerr Legio DXIV 709	Posted - 2014.05.24 19:25:00 - [463] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Yes I think we are done here. Thanks for the awesome feedback, I hope we can all be happy with this discussion and how it sets the bar for future dev-community interaction. Was something changed ftom the original proposal? How about a TL:DR then? Pretty please this. +1 I have Plasma Cannon Proficiency V, no jk.
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2131	Posted - 2014.05.24 19:33:00 - [464] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: BlazeXYZ wrote: Who would sacrifice their whole effing high slot just for precision enhancers. A piece of one equipment doesn't need that much of a sacrifice. Gallente logi still wins. A lot of people in the competitive environment equip full racks of precision enhancers all the time. I'm not really sure why the Gallogi is even considered relevant in an EWAR discussion. The focused active scanner is so generally bad compared to an always on 360 Calscout scan that it's stupid to use one. Beat me to the punch Arkena, and did so in a more succinct way that I'd have managed. +1 Cross EDIT: Also this Haerr wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Yes I think we are done here. Thanks for the awesome feedback, I hope we can all be happy with this discussion and how it sets the bar for future dev-community interaction. Was something changed ftom the original proposal? How about a TL:DR then? Pretty please this. +1 Cross Atu for CPM1- An emergent candidate
Starfire Revo Inner.Hell 288	Posted - 2014.05.24 19:43:00 - [465] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Yes I think we are done here. Thanks for the awesome feedback, I hope we can all be happy with this discussion and how it sets the bar for future dev-community interaction. 0:46 to 0:49 I make videos of EVE and Dust http://www.youtube.com/mrgimbleb I write about EVE and Dust http://mrgimbleb.blogspot.com
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 1639	Posted - 2014.05.24 20:05:00 - [466] - Quote I am glad we reached a compromise that seemed to address all sides of the issue. Now if we can just add the dinosaurs... "I've made a huge mistake." -G.O.B. Bluth
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 100	Posted - 2014.05.24 20:28:00 - [467] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: I am glad we reached a compromise that seemed to address all sides of the issue. Now if we can just add the dinosaurs... In case you were wondering, this character is a Gal Scout. GûéGûäGûà /Gûî /Gûî /Gûî Gûî GûêGûêGûàGûâGûé IGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûê] GùÑGèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGùñn++
crazy space 1 GunFall Mobilization 2562	Posted - 2014.05.24 21:42:00 - [468] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Yes I think we are done here. Thanks for the awesome feedback, I hope we can all be happy with this discussion and how it sets the bar for future dev-community interaction. Was something changed ftom the original proposal? How about a TL:DR then? They didn't change anything and won't listen to our feedback
Al the destroyer NECROM0NGERS Caps and Mercs 140	Posted - 2014.05.24 21:42:00 - [469] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Yes I think we are done here. Thanks for the awesome feedback, I hope we can all be happy with this discussion and how it sets the bar for future dev-community interaction. You are to be commended sir! You have set the bar high thank you Still playing having more fun than ever cuz IDGAF.
crazy space GunFall Mobilization 2562	Posted - 2014.05.24 21:42:00 - [470] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Yes I think we are done here. Thanks for the awesome feedback, I hope we can all be happy with this discussion and how it sets the bar for future dev-community interaction. Was something changed ftom the original proposal? How about a TL:DR then? They didn't change anything and won't listen to our feedback

Tamori Orn Nos Nothi 34	Posted - 2014.05.24 22:19:00 - [471] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Ok, scouts, please come back to me on this problem, exactly as I word it. Here is the premise 1) I want to encourage stealth players to go to proto cloak 2) GA scout will be the only scout that is completely unscannable 3) Not let GA scouts be the only stealth scouts and use cloaks So, I have been told, I can verify when I am back at work, that if we change the cloak to be at 10% dampening instead of 5% at PRO, at least 3 stealth scouts are viable with cloak, GA, CA and MM. I think that's fine, I don't think everyone should be equally good at everthing. Amarr will get a look soon. Max scan precision from CA scout is 17 (if my math is correct), terribly close to 16. Since I want the only thing to beat the 100% dedicated scout scanner to be a 100% dedicated stealth scout. A triple complex dampened, GA scout with a cloak at the new 10% level is at 13.5 or 14 dB. That means we can reduce the GA Scout bonus to 15% from 25% and still stay under the CA scout at 15.3 or 16dB. Thereby forcing the dedicate GA scout to sacrifice a low in most cases, so that he can't spend it on armor. For the coup de grace, we can reduce the range of the CA passive scan a little bit because it's unnecessarily good. Please respond to this in a civil manner, we are actively trying to listen and adapt our proposals based on your feedback. This looks promising, and I (and many others I am sure) appreciate you listening to feedback and iterating on this. For those of us who have been scouts since the beginning, we want to not be FOTM anymore, but have spent enough time buried in near obscurity prior to that. I have to do the math on fitting the proto cloak, as to date that it is the only reason I haven't skilled into it. The scaling of the damp bonus makes sense, but it may be worthwhile to consider making it good enough for AM and MM scouts unscannable with the cloak as it is -temporary-. If I am reading your post right, the GA is only unscannable by the best scanners while cloaked (so temporarily) now. If I get a chance I'll run some numbers to have a more complete proposal. Makes sense to make the damp the ultimate winner due to shared property of scans... and for the damp-win ability to be cloak based because it is temporary. It gives a good back and forth feel for 1) Upping the e-war strength of fits based on opponents e-war strength (escalation) and 2) Serious cloakers coming in and out of TACnet for prepared scanning squads. Again, thank you for the iteration and community involvement with this process. I am the "Great King" of the Semites. I am King of Kish, Lagash, Umma, Uruk, overlord of Sumer, Elam, Mari, and Yarmuti
The-Errorist SVER True Blood 722	Posted - 2014.05.24 23:24:00 - [472] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Yes I think we are done here. Thanks for the awesome feedback, I hope we can all be happy with this discussion and how it sets the bar for future dev-community interaction. What about the responses to your last question and the related issues raised? For example, making it harder to fit a prototype focused scanner? If a scout has to make lots of sacrifices to hide from it, why shouldn't the person using that scanner need to make sacrifices too? Another related and seemingly unnoticed/unreplied suggestion (to you) was to remove the scan radius bonus and replace that with a cloak duration bonus, so that it has 2 bonuses for hiding (dampening & cloak duration) instead of only having a duration bonus like you suggested earlier. This would make the Gal scout not a bonus that's too similar to the Cal scout too. MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill. Scanned scouts aren't dead scouts, they're +600HP scouts.
Zatara Rought General Tso's Alliance 3251	Posted - 2014.05.25 00:35:00 - [473] - Quote Arkena and some other dismissed the cloak duration suggestion early on. Just to let you know. CEO of FA, Candidate for CPM1 Follow me on twitter Skype Zatara.Rought

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 1732	Posted - 2014.05.25 00:40:00 - [474] - Quote In summary Overall we generally agree that 1)GA scout could fit too much because of his native dampening 2)GA scout also got a free repair module on top of that 3)GA passive scan bonus doesnt necessarily make sense for role 4)CA scouts passive scan (fondly known as wallhacking) a tad too much 5)Cloak gameplay with dampening is a key factor in fun ewar 6)The need to specialize is enforced in a big way with power graduation 7)To not force equipment selection by having built in scout bonuses for the cloak specifically (such as duration for GA) Cloak keeps dampening, and at better rates than we originally proposed, 0-5-10 instead of 0-2.5-5 GA scout damp bonus to 3% per level instead of 5% for a maximum bonus of 15% Reducing CA passive scan to 3% for 5% Reducing GA passive scan to 1% from 5% (I would think this gets changed to something more fitting later) Reducing GA regen to 1/hp from 3/hp *Duration changes stay the same as original proposal with the same recharge ratio as the old cloak Updated Hotfix Alpha Numbers No changes to shared group scans No changes to Gallogi FS, it is a very narrow scan with a limited steatlh counter by another role than CA scouts. I want to see how that plays out. No changes so bonuses affect modules fitted (a much bigger change) I have updated the google docs accordingly "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Zatara Rought General Tso's Alliance 3252	Posted - 2014.05.25 00:46:00 - [475] - Quote Awesome. Can't wait to see how it plays out. And I think we all hope for a further look at rebalancing the e-war scene further in the future. <3 CEO of FA, Candidate for CPM1 Follow me on twitter Skype Zatara.Rought
bogeyman m Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 215	Posted - 2014.05.25 01:00:00 - [476] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: In summary Overall we generally agree that 1)GA scout could fit too much because of his native dampening 2)GA scout also got a free repair module on top of that 3)GA passive scan bonus doesnt necessarily make sense for role 4)CA scouts passive scan (fondly known as wallhacking) a tad too much 5)Cloak gameplay with dampening is a key factor in fun ewar 6)The need to specialize is enforced in a big way with power graduation 7)To not force equipment selection by having built in scout bonuses for the cloak specifically (such as duration for GA) Cloak keeps dampening, and at better rates than we originally proposed, 0-5-10 instead of 0-2.5-5 GA scout damp bonus to 3% per level instead of 5% for a maximum bonus of 15% Reducing CA passive scan to 3% from 5% Reducing GA passive scan to 1% from 5% (I would think this gets changed to something more fitting later) Reducing GA regen to 1/hp from 3/hp *Duration changes stay the same as original proposal with the same recharge ratio as the old cloak Updated Hotfix Alpha Numbers No changes to shared group scans No changes to Gallogi FS, it is a very narrow scan with a limited steatlh counter by another role than CA scouts. I want to see how that plays out. No changes so bonuses affect modules fitted (a much bigger change) I have updated the google docs accordingly Awesome. Now, when does this hotfix go live? :-) Duct tape 2.0 - Have WD-40; will travel.
jerrmy12 kahoalii Proficiency V. 1526	Posted - 2014.05.25 01:04:00 - [477] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: In summary Overall we generally agree that 1)GA scout could fit too much because of his native dampening 2)GA scout also got a free repair module on top of that 3)GA passive scan bonus doesnt necessarily make sense for role 4)CA scouts passive scan (fondly known as wallhacking) a tad too much 5)Cloak gameplay with dampening is a key factor in fun ewar 6)The need to specialize is enforced in a big way with power graduation 7)To not force equipment selection by having built in scout bonuses for the cloak specifically (such as duration for GA) Cloak keeps dampening, and at better rates than we originally proposed, 0-5-10 instead of 0-2.5-5 GA scout damp bonus to 3% per level instead of 5% for a maximum bonus of 15% Reducing CA passive scan to 3% from 5% Reducing GA passive scan to 1% from 5% (I would think this gets changed to something more fitting later) Reducing GA regen to 1/hp from 3/hp *Duration changes stay the same as original proposal with the same recharge ratio as the old cloak Updated Hotfix Alpha Numbers No changes to shared group scans No changes to Gallogi FS, it is a very narrow scan with a limited steatlh counter by another role than CA scouts. I want to see how that plays out. No changes so bonuses affect modules fitted (a much bigger change) I have updated the google docs accordingly Ryi 1 rep is un noticible. Closed beta vet.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2376	Posted - 2014.05.25 03:10:00 - [478] - Quote just could use some updated cloak cycle time info. Also, it looks like you are working late/super early on a weekend. While we appreciate your effort for your job, we also appreciate you as a human being and hope you are taking appropriate resting time. We are happy that you like to make our game better. But hopefully, healthy and happy devs probably make better design decisions, so enjoy your off time well when you get it!
BlazeXYZ xCosmic Voidx Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 6	Posted - 2014.05.25 03:13:00 - [479] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: In summary Overall we generally agree that 1)GA scout could fit too much because of his native dampening 2)GA scout also got a free repair module on top of that 3)GA passive scan bonus doesnt necessarily make sense for role 4)CA scouts passive scan (fondly known as wallhacking) a tad too much 5)Cloak gameplay with dampening is a key factor in fun ewar 6)The need to specialize is enforced in a big way with power graduation 7)To not force equipment selection by having built in scout bonuses for the cloak specifically (such as duration for GA) Cloak keeps dampening, and at better rates than we originally proposed, 0-5-10 instead of 0-2.5-5 GA scout damp bonus to 3% per level instead of 5% for a maximum bonus of 15% Reducing CA passive scan to 3% from 5% Reducing GA passive scan to 1% from 5% (I would think this gets changed to something more fitting later) Reducing GA regen to 1/hp from 3/hp *Duration changes stay the same as original proposal with the same recharge ratio as the old cloak Updated Hotfix Alpha Numbers No changes to shared group scans No changes to Gallogi FS, it is a very narrow scan with a limited steatlh counter by another role than CA scouts. I want to see how that plays out. No changes so bonuses affect modules fitted (a much bigger change) I have updated the google docs accordingly So with all these changes are you guys giving back all our sp from the things your changing so that we could specialize in what we decide to put sp on. And also when is the release. Blaze
Zatara Rought General Tso's Alliance 3258	Posted - 2014.05.25 03:18:00 - [480] - Quote BlazeXYZ wrote: So with all these changes are you guys giving back all our sp from the things your changing so that we could specialize in what we decide to put sp on. And also when is the release. Lol i hope not. Bonuses in the past for cal assault and cal logi were changed and tweaked and no respec. No respecs for hotfix alpha IMO CEO of FA, Candidate for CPM1 Follow me on twitter Skype Zatara.Rought



Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 [16] 17 18 19 20 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page