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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 25 post(s)

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 1379	Posted - 2014.05.22 06:56:00 - [1] - Quote We want to stick to the dampening removal on cloaks. How, and you only have one stat to change, do we do that while not making Gallente scout the only viable (PC) meta? Go! "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 5391	Posted - 2014.05.22 06:59:00 - [2] - Quote You're going to have to change more than one stat. You pretty much have to rework every scout. This isn't just about the gallente scout. It's about ALL scouts. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2482	Posted - 2014.05.22 07:01:00 - [3] - Quote rebalance Active Scanners' Precision to be competitive with Medium Frames, not automatically negating the possibility of a medium frame using profile dampeners cut off 5% percent from Precision Enhancers Both would need to change. Gallente Logistics with Active Scanner and Caldari Scout with 4 complex precision enhancers needs to change. Neither should be able to get below 19dB Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
Xx-VxF-xX Void of Faction 21	Posted - 2014.05.22 07:01:00 - [4] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We want to stick to the dampening removal on cloaks. How, and you only have one stat to change, do we do that while not making Gallente scout the only viable (PC) meta? Go! keep the dampening on cloak and change the gallente dampening bonus to something else. example gallente cloak duration bonus per level to go with the shorter cloak duration nerf. keeps all the other scouts free and clear of a MAJOR nerf and nerfs the gallente inviso BRICK TANK

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 1382	Posted - 2014.05.22 07:05:00 - [5] - Quote 1) Reduce the Gallente dampening bonus 2) Change the Gallente dampening bonus to a duration bonus "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2482	Posted - 2014.05.22 07:07:00 - [6] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We want to stick to the dampening removal on cloaks. How, and you only have one stat to change, do we do that while not making Gallente scout the only viable (PC) meta? Go! 1 stat? Drop all suit profile by 5 points. Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 5391	Posted - 2014.05.22 07:07:00 - [7] - Quote You're going to have to change the Caldari bonus and the gal logi bonus as well. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2483	Posted - 2014.05.22 07:09:00 - [8] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: 1) Reduce the Gallente dampening bonus 2) Change the Gallente dampening bonus to a duration bonus 1) No. This does not help balance the other Scouts. it only hurts Gallente Scouts 2) This is a terrible idea. What the hell happened to the "Don't force scouts to use the cloak" idea that we were desperate and asked the CPM to show the absolute level of need for? Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
Xx-VxF-xX Void of Faction 21	Posted - 2014.05.22 07:12:00 - [9] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: 1) Reduce the Gallente dampening bonus 2) Change the Gallente dampening bonus to a duration bonus 1) No. This does not help balance the other Scouts. it only hurts Gallente Scouts 2) This is a terrible idea. What the hell happened to the "Don't force scouts to use the cloak" idea that we were desperate and asked the CPM to show the absolute level of need for? If your relying on the cloak for your dampening then you are already forced to use it.
Oswald Rehnquist 1380	Posted - 2014.05.22 07:14:00 - [10] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: You're going to have to change more than one stat. You pretty much have to rework every scout. This isn't just about the gallente scout. It's about ALL scouts. You have to think about how this cloaking change will effect EVERY scout. Do not balance around pubs and general laziness. Balance around a competitive environment where people will counter something. If every scout can be countered easily then no one will run e-war. Previously scouts were practically useless in PC because the tacnet system in this game is ridiculous. A scanned scout is a dead scout. If every scout can be scanned there is no point in running scout because it has no role. Entirely this, its going to require an entire rethinking of scouts, otherwise its just tolerating the fact that its gal scout or no scout, which I know is what you are not wanting to hear. If a scout variant can't beat a scan, its not going to survive, auto detect installations are a perfect example of non functional scouts, and you could see those. Below 28 dB

Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2483	Posted - 2014.05.22 07:16:00 - [11] - Quote Oswald Rehnquist wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: You're going to have to change more than one stat. You pretty much have to rework every scout. This isn't just about the gallente scout. It's about ALL scouts. You have to think about how this cloaking change will effect EVERY scout. Do not balance around pubs and general laziness. Balance around a competitive environment where people will counter something. If every scout can be countered easily then no one will run e-war. Previously scouts were practically useless in PC because the tacnet system in this game is ridiculous. A scanned scout is a dead scout. If every scout can be scanned there is no point in running scout because it has no role. Entirely this, its going to require an entire rethinking of scouts, otherwise its just tolerating the fact that its gal scout or no scout, which I know is what you are not wanting to hear. If a scout variant can't beat a scan, its not going to survive, auto detect installations are a perfect example of non functional scouts, and you could see those. I always loved that. "Why is that turret firing in at nothing?" wait a few seconds "Oh, that's why!" catch a momentary glance of the blue light of a cloak before the blaster Instillation gets a kill Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
Oswald Rehnquist 1380	Posted - 2014.05.22 07:16:00 - [12] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: You're going to have to change more than one stat. You pretty much have to rework every scout. This isn't just about the gallente scout. It's about ALL scouts. You have to think about how this cloaking change will effect EVERY scout. Do not balance around pubs and general laziness. Balance around a competitive environment where people will counter something. If every scout can be countered easily then no one will run e-war. Previously scouts were practically useless in PC because the tacnet system in this game is ridiculous. A scanned scout is a dead scout. If every scout can be scanned there is no point in running scout because it has no role. Entirely this, its going to require an entire rethinking of scouts, otherwise its just tolerating the fact that its gal scout or no scout, which I know is what you are not wanting to hear. If a scout variant can't beat a scan, its not going to survive, auto detect installations are a perfect example of non functional scouts, and you could see those. Below 28 dB
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 2854	Posted - 2014.05.22 07:19:00 - [13] - Quote To be honest, CCP Rattati: Apply the changes, but be very ready to reverse them if it fails. This is how you do lean development right? :) This message was brought to you by the PC master race.
Oswald Rehnquist 1381	Posted - 2014.05.22 07:24:00 - [14] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: 1) Reduce the Gallente dampening bonus 2) Change the Gallente dampening bonus to a duration bonus The problem is that 1.8 really balanced each scout with each other, I mean the numbers were flawlessly reflected off of each other, but it was built like a house of cards, you pull one and it comes falling down. Currently in supremacy is 1) Gal 2) Cal 3) Min/Ama What this post is asking here is what scout do we want to be the op scout, the gal scout or the caldari scout? If you nerf the gallente, then its cal scout or go home. If you don't touch anything right now, its gal scout or go home. Below 28 dB
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 5396	Posted - 2014.05.22 07:25:00 - [15] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: To be honest, CCP Rattati: Apply the changes, but be very ready to reverse them if it fails. This is how you do lean development right? :) No, they should definitely not do that. They balance things all willy nilly and random as hell with what seems to be as little thought as possible as it is. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2483	Posted - 2014.05.22 07:27:00 - [16] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We want to stick to the dampening removal on cloaks. How, and you only have one stat to change, do we do that while not making Gallente scout the only viable (PC) meta? Go! Right here is the problem. It seems to me that you took "Hotfix Alpha" from the pub match perspective. The problems and issues that people run into the most often are not guaranteed to be the same as the issues people complain the most, or loudest, about. While catering to the pub stompers' will you would take away the utility of a suit that offends them the most. EWAR is not balanced at this point in time. Taking away the dampening from cloaks is going to destroy the entire system. By giving the other Scouts a lower profile you remove the need for the cloak dampening bonus, BUT at the same time you negate the use of Precision enhancers from Amarr, Gallente, and Minmatar Scouts as they can no longer make use of them. By increasing the precision on scout suits... you make Logistics better at passive scan detection compared to Scouts because Logistics suits have more slots. By Decreasing the effectiveness of precision enhancers... Caldari scouts will be the only ones to use them because without the suit bonus the modules are no longer effective. You can't remove the dampening bonus to Cloaks. It is far too important to the balance of EWAR without completely restructuring the whole system from the ground up Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
Haerr Legio DXIV 654	Posted - 2014.05.22 07:28:00 - [17] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: 1) Reduce the Gallente dampening bonus 2) Change the Gallente dampening bonus to a duration bonus Anyone of these (alone without any other modifications) is a horrible idea which puts us right back into 1.7 where scouts were being perma scanned (bar a gal scout with 4 dampeners). Removing the dampening bonus from cloaks will make EWAR a static check, without any 'waves of opportunity'. Much akin to changing active hardeners on vehicles to passive resistance modules. Recap: Option 1) Gallente Scout need 3 dampeners to not be perma scanned. Option 1) Other Scouts need 4 dampeners to not be perma scanned. Option 2) Scouts need 4 dampeners to not be perma scanned. While I appreciate the need for an adjustment to cloaks & dampening, this just isn't it. If you show that you are at least a little bit flexible by coming up with more options then I will make an effort to get better feedback for you otherwise what's the point in even trying? I have Plasma Cannon Proficiency V, no jk.
THUNDERGROOVE The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 782	Posted - 2014.05.22 07:29:00 - [18] - Quote As already stated, the problem isn't directly with the Gallente it's the Amarr/Minmatar scouts. Both, in a competitive environment will need dampeners. For Amarr they loose a lot of tank/speed. Min will loose on their speed/hackspeed. Gallente gets a free complex dampener plus the skill bonus. They also get a free enhanced armor repair meaning they get even more free low slots for speed/tank/damps/range. Trying to get under Caldari/Gallente passive scans have pretty much gotten me to give up. It's not even worth trying to run dampeners because your suit is either setup to see me cloaked or it's not. EWAR is broken beyond repair without making massive changes. There needs to be scan degradation over range and some sort of threshold whether scans should be shared. If I'm 1 DB over your it shouldn't be shared. If I'm 10 then go ahead. If I'm 2 DB over your passives and 50 meters away you should not see me through three walls. I'd almost prefer all shared scans be only line of sight based. TDBS Fight heavy spam with plasma cannons!
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 812	Posted - 2014.05.22 07:30:00 - [19] - Quote Remind me again what the Gal logistics bonus is for, if not for scanning scouts down? Dust/Eve transfers
Xx-VxF-xX Void of Faction 22	Posted - 2014.05.22 07:37:00 - [20] - Quote Oswald Rehnquist wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: 1) Reduce the Gallente dampening bonus 2) Change the Gallente dampening bonus to a duration bonus The problem is that 1.8 really balanced each scout with each other, I mean the numbers were flawlessly reflected off of each other, but it was built like a house of cards, you pull one and it comes falling down. Currently in supremacy is 1) Gal 2) Cal 3) Min/Ama What this post is asking here is what scout do we want to be the op scout, the gal scout or the caldari scout? If you nerf the gallente, then its cal scout or go home. If you don't touch anything right now, its gal scout or go home. the only reason its gal scout or go home is gal has more options like BRICK TANKING while remaining invisible to tac-net. keeping the cloak dampening and changing the gal scout bonus would force the gal use 2 slots to be invisible to tac-net and nerfs some of its options. doing so would also make the other scouts more in line. the cal scout will have a better chance of detecting the gal scout and the amar will be on equal footing to the gal because it will take the same dampeners to make it invisible to tac-net as the gal. same for min. the fact is the gal is just OP the other are close to being in line other than amar need a better bonus.

Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2487	Posted - 2014.05.22 07:38:00 - [21] - Quote Xx-VxF-xX wrote: Oswald Rehnquist wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: 1) Reduce the Gallente dampening bonus 2) Change the Gallente dampening bonus to a duration bonus The problem is that 1.8 really balanced each scout with each other, I mean the numbers were flawlessly reflected off of each other, but it was built like a house of cards, you pull one and it comes falling down. Currently in supremacy is 1) Gal 2) Cal 3) Min/Ama What this post is asking here is what scout do we want to be the op scout, the gal scout or the caldari scout? If you nerf the gallente, then its cal scout or go home. If you don't touch anything right now, its gal scout or go home. the only reason its gal scout or go home is gal has more options like BRICK TANKING while remaining invisible to tac-net. keeping the cloak bonus and changing the gal scout bonus would force the gal use 2 slots to be invisible to tac-net and nerfs some of its options. doing so would also make the other scouts more in line. the cal scout will have a better chance of detecting the gal scout and the amar will be on equal footing to the gal because it will take the same dampeners to make it invisible to tac-net as the gal. same for min. the fact is the gal is just OP the other are close to being in line other than amar need a better bonus. This is EZ-mode pub match stuff. It is not PC meta. Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5691	Posted - 2014.05.22 07:39:00 - [22] - Quote Scout's role is low visibility in the decisive use of cloaking devices. The Gallente's specialization in that role, is by having the least likely chance of being scanned. Removing the profile reduction on cloaks is a decent start if you're trying to encourage a sacrifice being made in defensive/offensive in favor of the ability to go un-scanned but by providing a broad-range nerf (removing profile reduction on cloaks) you're hitting all of the Scouts while the Gallente still remains in it's butter zone to some degree. As far as a single stat change? Not much you can really do as the only changes you can make are contrary to what your trying to accomplish. Just bear in mind that if you want specialization in order to accomplish both cloaking and a low profile (personally I think it should be one or the other) you're going to have to encourage the other scouts to be effective at their own specializations to the point they're tasty alternatives. That would mean buffing the other scouts in different areas, as opposed to just one stat. EDIT: Good luck accomplishing that with the Amarr Scout. ANOTHER EDIT: What I'm trying to say here is that if the Gallente Scout is the only viable option -WITH- the profile reduction on cloaks... It's still going to be afterward, unless you make changes to the other scouts that don't apply to it. Appia Vibbia wrote: Both would need to change. Gallente Logistics with Active Scanner and Caldari Scout with 4 complex precision enhancers needs to change. Neither should be able to get below 19dB Wanted to quoted this because I disagree, to an extent. If a Caldari Scout is fitting that many precision enhancers, he's making a severe sacrifice in order to be able to find those targets - thereby, he's a specialist with a high risk/reward playstyle. Active Scanner probably shouldn't be so powerful giving it's broad range without making sacrifices though, so I'll give you that. Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
THUNDERGROOVE The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 783	Posted - 2014.05.22 07:43:00 - [23] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Wanted to quoted this because I disagree, to an extent. If a Caldari Scout is fitting that many precision enhancers, he's making a severe sacrifice in order to be able to find those targets - thereby, he's a specialist with a high risk/reward playstyle. It doesn't matter if you only have 200 shields if you can see every threat within 50-75 meters of you. TDBS Fight heavy spam with plasma cannons!
Oswald Rehnquist 1383	Posted - 2014.05.22 07:46:00 - [24] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: 1) Reduce the Gallente dampening bonus 2) Change the Gallente dampening bonus to a duration bonus I kind of noticed that I didn't actually answer the question I presented. The gallente keeps the caldari in check (renders it useless), the caldari keeps the other two in check. If a decision is needed soon, and these are really our options and we are forced to decide between op gal scouts or op cal scouts, the game will be "healthier" if the op scout was the gal scout, and I say this as a cal scout user (who always loved the detector role). If anything is going to be changed, then changing the caldari racial would be the best way to do it. If you remove the caldari scout, the other two scouts would be able to breathe a little bit. Also it would render the ultility of the gallente dampener bonus to really only be used against gal logis, thus inadequately making the amarr scout's ability more useful for general purpose. Below 28 dB
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5691	Posted - 2014.05.22 07:47:00 - [25] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Wanted to quoted this because I disagree, to an extent. If a Caldari Scout is fitting that many precision enhancers, he's making a severe sacrifice in order to be able to find those targets - thereby, he's a specialist with a high risk/reward playstyle. It doesn't matter if you only have 200 shields if you can see every threat within 50-75 meters of you. I don't see a problem with it. Easily killed and the information only applies to him (no shared TacNet). Deal with the problem if it's a problem Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2487	Posted - 2014.05.22 07:47:00 - [26] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Appia Vibbia wrote: Both would need to change. Gallente Logistics with Active Scanner and Caldari Scout with 4 complex precision enhancers needs to change. Neither should be able to get below 19dB Wanted to quoted this because I disagree, to an extent. If a Caldari Scout is fitting that many precision enhancers, he's making a severe sacrifice in order to be able to find those targets - thereby, he's a specialist with a high risk/reward playstyle. Active Scanner probably shouldn't be so powerful giving it's broad range without making sacrifices though, so I'll give you that. So you're saying Minmatar Scouts should not be able to avoid detection because they can't equally invest the same number of low slots, so they aren't making an equal sacrifice? Because currently that is how the system is working without the cloak. Base values and stacking penalties keep this from being a fair system giving the Caldari scout an advantage that's impossible to overcome. Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5691	Posted - 2014.05.22 07:57:00 - [27] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Appia Vibbia wrote: Both would need to change. Gallente Logistics with Active Scanner and Caldari Scout with 4 complex precision enhancers needs to change. Neither should be able to get below 19dB Wanted to quoted this because I disagree, to an extent. If a Caldari Scout is fitting that many precision enhancers, he's making a severe sacrifice in order to be able to find those targets - thereby, he's a specialist with a high risk/reward playstyle. Active Scanner probably shouldn't be so powerful giving it's broad range without making sacrifices though, so I'll give you that. So you're saying Minmatar Scouts should not be able to avoid detection because they can't equally invest the same number of low slots, so they aren't making an equal sacrifice? Because currently that is how the system is working without the cloak. Base values and stacking penalties keep this from being a fair system giving the Caldari scout an advantage that's impossible to overcome. As it should be, it's the Caldari Scout's specialization. Minmatar Scout isn't meant for bypassing that, it's meant for hacking and blading people in the face. Trying to make everything viable against a specialist who goes out of his way to be able to perform said specialization just devalues it and renders it effectively useless. Why would I want to fit so many precision enhancers knowing that the entire point of fitting them in the first place is arbitrary? It's one thing if the Active Scanner is doing it because it applies to everyone in squad, but it's completely different if someone dons a tooth necklace and decides to go hunting with a Caldari Scout. Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
THUNDERGROOVE The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 784	Posted - 2014.05.22 07:57:00 - [28] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: I don't see a problem with it. Easily killed and the information only applies to him (no shared TacNet). Deal with the problem if it's a problem The information applies to their entire squad and it's all dependent on the situation. In most cases I don't have too much trouble with Caldari scouts on their own since they're generally terrible(musthavwallh4x). The real problem ensues when he has 5 friends in his squad, usually all lol400armorand9metersprintGallente scouts. TDBS Fight heavy spam with plasma cannons!
Xx-VxF-xX Void of Faction 23	Posted - 2014.05.22 08:00:00 - [29] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: Xx-VxF-xX wrote: Oswald Rehnquist wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: 1) Reduce the Gallente dampening bonus 2) Change the Gallente dampening bonus to a duration bonus The problem is that 1.8 really balanced each scout with each other, I mean the numbers were flawlessly reflected off of each other, but it was built like a house of cards, you pull one and it comes falling down. Currently in supremacy is 1) Gal 2) Cal 3) Min/Ama What this post is asking here is what scout do we want to be the op scout, the gal scout or the caldari scout? If you nerf the gallente, then its cal scout or go home. If you don't touch anything right now, its gal scout or go home. the only reason its gal scout or go home is gal has more options like BRICK TANKING while remaining invisible to tac-net. keeping the cloak bonus and changing the gal scout bonus would force the gal use 2 slots to be invisible to tac-net and nerfs some of its options. doing so would also make the other scouts more in line. the cal scout will have a better chance of detecting the gal scout and the amar will be on equal footing to the gal because it will take the same dampeners to make it invisible to tac-net as the gal. same for min. the fact is the gal is just OP the other are close to being in line other than amar need a better bonus. This is EZ-mode pub match stuff. It is not PC meta. oh sorry maybe i would be interested in PC meta if it was balanced. gallente is obviously the PC meta FOTM OP scout cal is the #2 PC meta FOTM OP scout take away the dampening on cloaking only moves the 2 higher on the OP tree and pushes the other farther down. sorry I want to help bring the gal down a level while at the same time bringing the amarr up a level keeping the others the same.
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2493	Posted - 2014.05.22 08:01:00 - [30] - Quote I am confused as to why Aeon Amadi thinks information is not shared through TacNet or why people would not have voice communication. Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia



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