The best option I see, which will be wildly unpopular is not to merely remove the dampening bonus of the cloak but to add a dampening penalty to the cloak. This only makes sense as a 160 cpu device should show up on scans. More importantly it forces people to make a choice between being seen on radar or being seen by the eye, being able to be able to be invisible to both is just too powerful an advantage and it requires no tactical decision making about which one to use when. It doesn't break the balance of scouts further and it does make other suits and fittings more viable.

Two, balance should absolutely be made around pub matches, not PC. PC players can adapt and change strategies as a team, pub players can't. There is no good reason, other than some elitist attitude that the 5% of the players that do PC should have more sway than the 95% who don't. Catering to the PC players has been fundamental to the collapse of Dust.

why not just make the cloak 10-5% damp instead of completely removing it.

A kink in the plans?

Don't know about you guys, but I had assumed Spin Scanning was fixed.
A GalLogi scanning 300 degrees every so often might make for problem.

I'm not saying that we should change anything.
Only pointing out a potential issue.

We want to stick to the dampening removal on cloaks.

How, and you only have one stat to change, do we do that while not making Gallente scout the only viable (PC) meta?

Go!

I have asked an engineer to take a look, I will keep you posted.

I have asked an engineer to take a look, I will keep you posted.

The case for having STD-ADV-PRO cloak fields at 0-7.5-15.

Reason for STD 0 - No dampening bonus from cloak means you have to give up low slots to gain max benefit.

Reason for ADV 7.5 - A slight dampening bonus means that a higher cpu/pg investment is slightly rewarded.

Reason for PRO 15 - It will allow Amarr & Minmatar Scouts that give up half of their module slots and uses the most cpu/pg intensive cloak to remain hidden. It allows Gallente the choice between using either half their module slots or 2/6 modules & the most cpu/pg expensive cloak field to remain hidden.

The scanners still win by:
A) Detecting the scanee
B) Forcing the scanee to make huge sacrifices in order to remain hidden.

On B): This is probably still severe enough for Scouts to warrant dropping their fits/suits (because they are not competitive) and either going light assault or switching suits.

To recap and please don't derail this

Cloak Dampening 0-5-10 STD-ADV-PRO

MM, AM, GA are unscannable if PRO cloaked with additional dampeners.

what does the GA scout dampening bonus of 25% need to be reduced by so GA scouts still have an advantage as the best stealth suit, without being OP? Take into account that the 3 hp/s is also making it very OP and that may be reduced and/or eliminated as well.


Please only answer that question for the time being.

Thanks

We want to stick to the dampening removal on cloaks.

How, and you only have one stat to change, do we do that while not making Gallente scout the only viable (PC) meta?

Go!

Remind me again what the Gal logistics bonus is for, if not for scanning scouts down?

Confirming that this is super easy if your mouse have a dpi switch. It would be better if you switched the scanners to have a duration of 1 sec and long scan time instead. And make it have the same mechanics as a cloak - have to hold it out to benefit from it.

You could also slow down aiming while you scan with an active scanner.

Thanks, Haerr. I was thinking the exact opposite ...
If current scan duration is 0.3 seconds, I'd suggest reducing it to say 0.03 seconds.

Such that "snapshot" = snapshot =/= "try to spin faster"

That said, I freely differ to you and your German advisers :-)
Do you think these mechanisms are accessible server-side?

1% bonus per level.....lol. Might as well not even have a bonus.

That's insignificant.

At max skills that's 1.5m extra.

I for one am not worried about my cal scout with dampening. On my advanced suit I use an adv dampener which is 20% from 35 which approximately brings me down to 25Db, in pub matches how many times do you see people running proto scanners? Even with an organised squad if they were to use one it is likely that only one person will use it so on skirmish that's not much of a problem. One person with a proto scanner can't cover the whole map. On domination however this still shouldn't be a problem because scouts are meant to flank not hit head on. This becomes apparent when running caldari because shields are made for hit and run tactics which is why I also run a basic cloak not only to back this up, but to prepare for the changes in hotfix alpha and to get new strategies and tactics ready. Also the standard cloak now and the advanced cloak after alpha, the after alpha cloak has an advantage due to the fact it has a 5 second less recharge time. Just my thoughts. Some things will need to be in place to help Minmatar and Amarr scouts in PC though to make them viable.

Gal has more low slots and racial weapons with lower range. Deal with it.

And cal has more high slots, and higher dmg weapons with longer range.

Don't see your point at all, oh...there isn't one.

The gal can use the same weapons as the cal so that means nothing
Gal is polar counter vs Cal in dampening vs precision

Gal with 2x complex range is 64m
Cal with 2x complex range is 70m
Not a big difference
Gal with 4x complex range is 90m
Cal is stuck at 70m
Gal is range king

Gal with 2x complex dampeners and proto cloak is 14
Cal with 2x complex dampeners and proto cloak is 17
Gal is profile king

Gal can have 64m range and 14 profile with proto cloak at the same time
Cal will need 1x enhanced dampener with proto cloak to hide form Gal with 2x complex precision
Cal will need 1x complex and 1x basic dampener with proto cloak to hide from anyone with a proto focused scanner

The polar balance (neither can scan each other) [edit] (unless gal is using proto focused scanner)
Gal will have 64m range, 14 profile, and 24 precision = sees less at greater range and invisible to all
Cal will have 50m range, 21 profile, and 15 precision = sees more at shorter range but not invisible to all

Gal range bonus needs removed completely. not that it will make much of a difference.
I have been Gal scout since open beta. Will be Gal scout when they shut the servers down.

I still agree that the cal should have small range precise scans, and the gall long range dull scans since they are "polar" counters to one another. It's not like a gall scout, with 2 precision mods, can pick up a cal scout with 2 dampeners/cloak.?

and gallante being able to pick up undampened scouts/assaults etc.. =/

I

What if you didn't remove the dampening bonus from the cloaks, but when the cloak was active it nerfed your passive scans? This would hopefully turn the cloak from a spammed tactic into something strategically used. If you were cloaked up, you could hide on a point, run around, kill, etc....but then you open yourself up to being shotgunned/knifed in the back by a dampened suit.
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