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Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 881	Posted - 2014.05.24 01:20:00 - [271] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We are still open to simple suggestions. Most of what I read here is "do you even PC scout bro" and "you have to completely redesign the whole ewar/scout ethos". We are not going to do that. We already changed the proposal to have a progression in dampening: STD/ADV/PRO 0%/2.5%/5.0%. It seems to me that reducing the dampening bonus of the GA scout, or changing it to duration can level the scouts viability. And I want to remind you that scout use is more than 50% Gallente, meaning the others split the 50%. Cyrius Li Moody, as the most vocal opponent, and the rest of you as well :). Do you want to contribute and propose a simple change to the scouts, which was the purpose of this thread. In this form with fake examples. MM f.ex. run speed % AM f.ex. ehp bonus % CA is fine GA f.ex. reduce dampening bonus % My problem is by changing this one thing you have change so many other things. There's no magic bullet for this. It seems like you're making this far more complicated than it should be because "this is the way it's going to be." I really don't understand this mindset. However-- The most simple way: You'll need to change all scout suits base precisions so that with a max of 2 complex damps (caldari only has 2 lows) and a proto cloak active every scout can get under a gal focus scanner. You'll have to adjust the Gal's bonus for this accordingly so it doesn't get too low when it scales with all it's skills applied. As for the Gal and Cal, move their bonuses to modules but have them at the same effectiveness as they do now so players have to equip them to use the bonuses. Also you'll need to buff the Minmatar's PG because you are not going to fit a proto cloak on that thing. You can barely fit an adv cloak at proto level as it is with two damps. You guys are making this way too hard on yourselves. There are a lot of things you're going to need to rebalance and a lot of numbers to crunch. I definitely feel as if you guys are taking the wrong approach to fix this problem and are going to cause more by taking this route. Please listen to this CCP. You have to be really careful what you do here. Some of the ideas your putting forward are really going to cause the cal scout to dominate. Also please consider the fact that one cal scout in a squad allows everyone in that squad to see a scout. CCP continues to make the wrong choices, one choice at a time.
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2567	Posted - 2014.05.24 01:21:00 - [272] - Quote MM 5% per level to Nova Knife Damage and Codebreakers efficacy AM Increase base Stamina/Stamina Regeneration. Add relevant, debatable scout skills CA 3% per level to efficacy of Precision Enhancers GA 3% per level to efficacy of Range Amplifiers Scout -15% CPU/PG per level to cloak. 5% per level to efficacy of Profile Dampeners Change Duvolle Focused Active Scanner to 5 second duration, 15 second cooldown, 24 dB Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 1586	Posted - 2014.05.24 01:27:00 - [273] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: My problem is by changing this one thing you have change so many other things. There's no magic bullet for this. It seems like you're making this far more complicated than it should be because "this is the way it's going to be." I really don't understand this mindset. However-- The most simple way: You'll need to change all scout suits base precisions so that with a max of 2 complex damps (caldari only has 2 lows) and a proto cloak active every scout can get under a gal focus scanner. You'll have to adjust the Gal's bonus for this accordingly so it doesn't get too low when it scales with all it's skills applied. As for the Gal and Cal, move their bonuses to modules but have them at the same effectiveness as they do now so players have to equip them to use the bonuses. Also you'll need to buff the Minmatar's PG because you are not going to fit a proto cloak on that thing. You can barely fit an adv cloak at proto level as it is with two damps. You guys are making this way too hard on yourselves. There are a lot of things you're going to need to rebalance and a lot of numbers to crunch. I definitely feel as if you guys are taking the wrong approach to fix this problem and are going to cause more by taking this route. Yep So what roles do Minmatar and Amarr have in this perfect scout/ewar/ PC equilibrium? "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 969	Posted - 2014.05.24 01:28:00 - [274] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We are still open to simple suggestions. Most of what I read here is "do you even PC scout bro" and "you have to completely redesign the whole ewar/scout ethos". We are not going to do that. We already changed the proposal to have a progression in dampening: STD/ADV/PRO 0%/2.5%/5.0%. It seems to me that reducing the dampening bonus of the GA scout, or changing it to duration can level the scouts viability. And I want to remind you that scout use is more than 50% Gallente, meaning the others split the 50%. Cyrius Li Moody, as the most vocal opponent, and the rest of you as well :). Do you want to contribute and propose a simple change to the scouts, which was the purpose of this thread. In this form with fake examples. MM f.ex. run speed % AM f.ex. ehp bonus % CA is fine GA f.ex. reduce dampening bonus % Take away Gallente bonus to dampening. Make it a Scout skill instead. Take away Caldari bonus to Range to equal the two suits out. MM Nova Knife and Hacking AM Stamina and stealth uplink deployment CA Precision Bonus GA Range Bonus Scout -15% CPU/PG per level to cloak. -5% to profile Looks really good, Appia. The only thing I'd change is AM as stealth ULS are likely not possible. Scout - Cloak + Damp MM - NK + Hack AM - Biotics CA - Precision GA - Range @ Rattati Most of those GalScouts are mercs waiting for better Assaults. The number will drop when we get a new slayer suit. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Llast 326 An Arkhos 3211	Posted - 2014.05.24 01:29:00 - [275] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: MM 5% per level to Nova Knife Damage and Codebreakers efficacy AM Increase base Stamina/Stamina Regeneration. Add relevant, debatable scout skills CA 3% per level to efficacy of Precision Enhancers GA 3% per level to efficacy of Range Amplifiers Scout -15% CPU/PG per level to cloak. 5% per level to efficacy of Profile Dampeners Change Duvolle Focused Active Scanner to 5 second duration, 15 second cooldown, 24 dB Do you have a Mathpia chart on this You have my interest in thisGÇª but you know my math skillsGÇª KRRROOOOOOM
Zatara Rought General Tso's Alliance 3180	Posted - 2014.05.24 01:30:00 - [276] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Appia Vibbia wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: My problem is by changing this one thing you have change so many other things. There's no magic bullet for this. It seems like you're making this far more complicated than it should be because "this is the way it's going to be." I really don't understand this mindset. However-- The most simple way: You'll need to change all scout suits base precisions so that with a max of 2 complex damps (caldari only has 2 lows) and a proto cloak active every scout can get under a gal focus scanner. You'll have to adjust the Gal's bonus for this accordingly so it doesn't get too low when it scales with all it's skills applied. As for the Gal and Cal, move their bonuses to modules but have them at the same effectiveness as they do now so players have to equip them to use the bonuses. Also you'll need to buff the Minmatar's PG because you are not going to fit a proto cloak on that thing. You can barely fit an adv cloak at proto level as it is with two damps. You guys are making this way too hard on yourselves. There are a lot of things you're going to need to rebalance and a lot of numbers to crunch. I definitely feel as if you guys are taking the wrong approach to fix this problem and are going to cause more by taking this route. Yep So what roles do Minmatar and Amarr have in this perfect scout/ewar/ PC equilibrium? NONONONONONONONONONONONO Giving all scouts EZ mode unscannable is stupid and broken You need to take the middle road and not fanatics who honestly wouldn't complain if all scouts just came unscannable and cloaks remained 90 seconds and all slots are available to use for other things. This is absolutely ludicrous. CEO of FA, Candidate for CPM1 Follow me on twitter Skype Zatara.Rought
Zatara Rought General Tso's Alliance 3180	Posted - 2014.05.24 01:32:00 - [277] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: Oswald Rehnquist wrote: I think it's only a bad idea IF they choose not to pair it with the end of squad vision. Make scanners the only way to relay location to squadmates. While this will bring the caldari down to the ama/min plebs, the issue still stands that its gallente over the rest by leaps and bounds. Also these changes are going to actually increase the amount of slayer fits since ewar is now a non competitive game, more ehp buffing will be taking its place, which is a 180 from what this change is suppose to do. No doubt the gal bonus needs nerfed and most likely the base profile of scouts needs buffed. The bonuses of gal and cal should not be so incredibly strong as to warrant 2 modules worth of difference, max 1. The bonus's need to be 1 module difference, not 2, speaking of the cal and gal scout bonuses at the high end e-war. I suggest that lowering profile and nerfing the bonus's would perform this simply. Perhaps I'm just REALLY tired, but that seems to make sense to me. Here's even more tired thoughts just for fun and to get something you can flame me for: Minmatar scouts should take 2 complex damps to get under all but a cal scout with 3 complex precision or a dude using a regular focused scanner (2 complex 1 enhanced), and require 3 complex to get under a cal scout using 4 complex precision. Gal logi using focused scanners should be able to pick it up for the 5 second duration assuming you are in the radius and range. Amarr should be the same except 4 complex should get you under a gal logi using a focused. Gallente should be the same except require one less damp. Cal should be limited by their 2 low slots and thus would only be immune to all but a regular focused, gal focused, and other cal scouts. No real thoughts on balancing medium's using precisions except a 1 to 1 ratio vs other mediums. I also refrained from commenting on scouts precision outside of cal scout, which is why this may all be flawed. Who knows i'm tired. Night. I absolutely think a dude specced into gal logi for the scan bonus and using a piece of equipment that only lights you up for 5 seconds should be the end all be all at counterplay to dampening. and that it should take an arm and a leg for scouts to get under a 4 precision cal scout, and give you pause when considering if it's worth it to get under a gal logi trying to pick you up with a focused. This aside from making min scouts unscannable with 3 complex damps is the way to go. CEO of FA, Candidate for CPM1 Follow me on twitter Skype Zatara.Rought
Ghost Kaisar The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 4866	Posted - 2014.05.24 01:32:00 - [278] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Appia Vibbia wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: My problem is by changing this one thing you have change so many other things. There's no magic bullet for this. It seems like you're making this far more complicated than it should be because "this is the way it's going to be." I really don't understand this mindset. However-- The most simple way: You'll need to change all scout suits base precisions so that with a max of 2 complex damps (caldari only has 2 lows) and a proto cloak active every scout can get under a gal focus scanner. You'll have to adjust the Gal's bonus for this accordingly so it doesn't get too low when it scales with all it's skills applied. As for the Gal and Cal, move their bonuses to modules but have them at the same effectiveness as they do now so players have to equip them to use the bonuses. Also you'll need to buff the Minmatar's PG because you are not going to fit a proto cloak on that thing. You can barely fit an adv cloak at proto level as it is with two damps. You guys are making this way too hard on yourselves. There are a lot of things you're going to need to rebalance and a lot of numbers to crunch. I definitely feel as if you guys are taking the wrong approach to fix this problem and are going to cause more by taking this route. Yep So what roles do Minmatar and Amarr have in this perfect scout/ewar/ PC equilibrium? NONONONONONONONONONONONO Giving all scouts EZ mode unscannable is stupid and broken You need to take the middle road and not fanatics who honestly wouldn't complain if all scouts just came unscannable and cloaks remained 90 seconds and all slots are available to use for other things. This is absolutely ludicrous. Too Clutch Yo. I agree with Zatara though. We don't want broken scouts. We want balanced. Headed to Destiny, To Hell with CCP PSN: EVL_Elgost105 RIP Dust514 05/02/14 GG CCP
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution 7583	Posted - 2014.05.24 01:32:00 - [279] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: NONONONONONONONONONONONO Giving all scouts EZ mode unscannable is stupid and broken You need to take the middle road and not fanatics who honestly wouldn't complain if all scouts just came unscannable and cloaks remained 90 seconds and all slots are available to use for other things. This is absolutely ludicrous. Scouts are not allowed to be too clutch. New [self proclaimed] CEO of Fatal Absolution 31+ mil SP Scout/Heavy/Logi/ADS pilot for hire (free) in PC
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 1635	Posted - 2014.05.24 01:33:00 - [280] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Appia Vibbia wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: My problem is by changing this one thing you have change so many other things. There's no magic bullet for this. It seems like you're making this far more complicated than it should be because "this is the way it's going to be." I really don't understand this mindset. However-- The most simple way: You'll need to change all scout suits base precisions so that with a max of 2 complex damps (caldari only has 2 lows) and a proto cloak active every scout can get under a gal focus scanner. You'll have to adjust the Gal's bonus for this accordingly so it doesn't get too low when it scales with all it's skills applied. As for the Gal and Cal, move their bonuses to modules but have them at the same effectiveness as they do now so players have to equip them to use the bonuses. Also you'll need to buff the Minmatar's PG because you are not going to fit a proto cloak on that thing. You can barely fit an adv cloak at proto level as it is with two damps. You guys are making this way too hard on yourselves. There are a lot of things you're going to need to rebalance and a lot of numbers to crunch. I definitely feel as if you guys are taking the wrong approach to fix this problem and are going to cause more by taking this route. Yep So what roles do Minmatar and Amarr have in this perfect scout/ewar/ PC equilibrium? These changes allow minmatar to do what they do best, knife, speed tank, hack without them being able to go so overboard that they become a new problem. "I've made a huge mistake." -G.O.B. Bluth

Zatara Rought General Tso's Alliance 3180	Posted - 2014.05.24 01:37:00 - [281] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: My problem is by changing this one thing you have change so many other things. There's no magic bullet for this. It seems like you're making this far more complicated than it should be because "this is the way it's going to be." I really don't understand this mindset. However-- The most simple way: You'll need to change all scout suits base precisions so that with a max of 2 complex damps (caldari only has 2 lows) and a proto cloak active every scout can get under a gal focus scanner. You'll have to adjust the Gal's bonus for this accordingly so it doesn't get too low when it scales with all it's skills applied. As for the Gal and Cal, move their bonuses to modules but have them at the same effectiveness as they do now so players have to equip them to use the bonuses. Also you'll need to buff the Minmatar's PG because you are not going to fit a proto cloak on that thing. You can barely fit an adv cloak at proto level as it is with two damps. You guys are making this way too hard on yourselves. There are a lot of things you're going to need to rebalance and a lot of numbers to crunch. I definitely feel as if you guys are taking the wrong approach to fix this problem and are going to cause more by taking this route. PLEASE FFS get on comms with me. The idea that the end all be all of being undetected is 2 complex damps is just STUPID easy and makes active scanners a joke, in addition to making all assaults that can't be unscannable AND logi's not worth it in competitive play outside of min for the rep and maybe Amarr AFTER they find a way for the bonus to still apply after death. Because if it's so easy to be completely unscannable everyone will do it and the other roles are obsolete in comparison. CEO of FA, Candidate for CPM1 Follow me on twitter Skype Zatara.Rought
Starfire Revo Inner.Hell 284	Posted - 2014.05.24 01:40:00 - [282] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: So what roles do Minmatar and Amarr have in this perfect scout/ewar/ PC equilibrium? Minmatar are great up close assassins. Their high base melee and movement speed would be amazing if they could capitalize on it more. They also bring great utility in the form of their better base hacking speed, which is further improved by their hacking bonus. I make videos of EVE and Dust http://www.youtube.com/mrgimbleb I write about EVE and Dust http://mrgimbleb.blogspot.com
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2569	Posted - 2014.05.24 01:42:00 - [283] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: Appia Vibbia wrote: MM 5% per level to Nova Knife Damage and Codebreakers efficacy AM Increase base Stamina/Stamina Regeneration. Add relevant, debatable scout skills CA 3% per level to efficacy of Precision Enhancers GA 3% per level to efficacy of Range Amplifiers Scout -15% CPU/PG per level to cloak. 5% per level to efficacy of Profile Dampeners Change Duvolle Focused Active Scanner to 5 second duration, 15 second cooldown, 24 dB Do you have a Mathpia chart on this You have my interest in thisGÇª but you know my math skillsGÇª yes and no. I'm mostly just throwing ideas out. they're more me being facetious than serious. Which is just the level I want to humor myself. But I do have the number chart for those Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 1588	Posted - 2014.05.24 01:43:00 - [284] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Appia Vibbia wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: My problem is by changing this one thing you have change so many other things. There's no magic bullet for this. It seems like you're making this far more complicated than it should be because "this is the way it's going to be." I really don't understand this mindset. However-- The most simple way: You'll need to change all scout suits base precisions so that with a max of 2 complex damps (caldari only has 2 lows) and a proto cloak active every scout can get under a gal focus scanner. You'll have to adjust the Gal's bonus for this accordingly so it doesn't get too low when it scales with all it's skills applied. As for the Gal and Cal, move their bonuses to modules but have them at the same effectiveness as they do now so players have to equip them to use the bonuses. Also you'll need to buff the Minmatar's PG because you are not going to fit a proto cloak on that thing. You can barely fit an adv cloak at proto level as it is with two damps. You guys are making this way too hard on yourselves. There are a lot of things you're going to need to rebalance and a lot of numbers to crunch. I definitely feel as if you guys are taking the wrong approach to fix this problem and are going to cause more by taking this route. Yep So what roles do Minmatar and Amarr have in this perfect scout/ewar/ PC equilibrium? These changes allow minmatar to do what they do best, knife, speed tank, hack without them being able to go so overboard that they become a new problem. They must have a role in the current equilibrium right? Without any changes. PC is almost exclusively GA and CA scouts. How does that compute? "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Ghost Kaisar The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 4866	Posted - 2014.05.24 01:44:00 - [285] - Quote Starfire Revo wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: So what roles do Minmatar and Amarr have in this perfect scout/ewar/ PC equilibrium? Minmatar are great up close assassins. Their high base melee and movement speed would be amazing if they could capitalize on it more. They also bring great utility in the form of their better base hacking speed, which is further improved by their hacking bonus. It's so hard for the Min to use these bonuses. If they Melee tank, they lose the ability to have health, which is vital in CQC. Speed tanking costs you your dampening, and it is INSANE on PG costs. 2x Speed costs 30 PG, which is more than 1/3 of our total PG off of two slots. Headed to Destiny, To Hell with CCP PSN: EVL_Elgost105 RIP Dust514 05/02/14 GG CCP
Derrith Erador The Last of DusT. 1907	Posted - 2014.05.24 01:44:00 - [286] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Appia Vibbia wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: My problem is by changing this one thing you have change so many other things. There's no magic bullet for this. It seems like you're making this far more complicated than it should be because "this is the way it's going to be." I really don't understand this mindset. However-- The most simple way: You'll need to change all scout suits base precisions so that with a max of 2 complex damps (caldari only has 2 lows) and a proto cloak active every scout can get under a gal focus scanner. You'll have to adjust the Gal's bonus for this accordingly so it doesn't get too low when it scales with all it's skills applied. As for the Gal and Cal, move their bonuses to modules but have them at the same effectiveness as they do now so players have to equip them to use the bonuses. Also you'll need to buff the Minmatar's PG because you are not going to fit a proto cloak on that thing. You can barely fit an adv cloak at proto level as it is with two damps. You guys are making this way too hard on yourselves. There are a lot of things you're going to need to rebalance and a lot of numbers to crunch. I definitely feel as if you guys are taking the wrong approach to fix this problem and are going to cause more by taking this route. Yep So what roles do Minmatar and Amarr have in this perfect scout/ewar/ PC equilibrium? NONONONONONONONONONONONO Giving all scouts EZ mode unscannable is stupid and broken You need to take the middle road and not fanatics who honestly wouldn't complain if all scouts just came unscannable and cloaks remained 90 seconds and all slots are available to use for other things. This is absolutely ludicrous. Making scouts ez mode is very unclutch, don't be doin' it CCP!! Seriously, though, that shouldn't happen, ever. Betty White, the worlds hottest grandma.
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 1075	Posted - 2014.05.24 01:47:00 - [287] - Quote - From a Scouts view In my opinion the fact the the Gallente scout is the only viable PC scout is a major blow to the other 3 Balancing this is essential as all scouts should perform a stealth role not just Gallente.... That's what they are there for, cloaking and being undetected.... Slaying quietly, picking off lone infantry A rough theory on Scout Db ratings - Right Here!! One other CCP overlook is HP totals on Light Suit.... 500 HP Should be max tank on a Light suit Anymore defeats the purpose of it being a Light suit, and let's it be a medium which should not happen There is a list of ways CCP can fix this, all I care about is seeing more than one scout be a PC option 'D1CK by name' 'D1CK by nature'
Orion Sanjeet The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 84	Posted - 2014.05.24 01:47:00 - [288] - Quote Words cannot describe how much I am against scouts being made even harder to kill. I'm here to drop links and rep bitches, and I'm just about outta links.
Grimmiers 565	Posted - 2014.05.24 01:48:00 - [289] - Quote Scouts might have been easier to balance if there were more factors that affected your db. Things like sprinting and shooting should increase your db temporarily which would make playing a sneaky scout harder, but more rewarding than it currently is. You could give the amarr and minmatar their own added benefits to make them harder to find in a battle situation. The minmatar would have less db while sprinting and the amarr would have less db shooting. This would offset the caldari and the gallente being purely focused on scanning and profile. The db increase when using sidearms would be much less than using light weapons so stealthy scouts would avoid using shotguns and combat rifles if they want to stay hidden. Also if you're thinking about weapon attachments in legion, silencers would be very useful for keeping a low db with this mechanic.
Zatara Rought General Tso's Alliance 3181	Posted - 2014.05.24 01:50:00 - [290] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: They must have a role in the current equilibrium right? Without any changes. PC is almost exclusively GA and CA scouts. How does that compute? Because cal are used to keep the other team using gal. The problem is cal are used because passive scans are OP vs active scans thus everyone uses cal scout to pick up everyone except anyone that's unscannable. they use gal cause 3 amror reps, more speedy than amarr, and it only takes 1 damp + cloak meaning all the rest can be used. CEO of FA, Candidate for CPM1 Follow me on twitter Skype Zatara.Rought

Starfire Revo Inner.Hell 284	Posted - 2014.05.24 01:53:00 - [291] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Starfire Revo wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: So what roles do Minmatar and Amarr have in this perfect scout/ewar/ PC equilibrium? Minmatar are great up close assassins. Their high base melee and movement speed would be amazing if they could capitalize on it more. They also bring great utility in the form of their better base hacking speed, which is further improved by their hacking bonus. It's so hard for the Min to use these bonuses. If they Melee tank, they lose the ability to have health, which is vital in CQC. Speed tanking costs you your dampening, and it is INSANE on PG costs. 2x Speed costs 30 PG, which is more than 1/3 of our total PG off of two slots. Hence my earlier suggestion to change knives to Biotics, you could get the melee damage you need while getting an extender and a plate. This all relies on squad vision being removed or Cal scouts losing their precision bonus though. I make videos of EVE and Dust http://www.youtube.com/mrgimbleb I write about EVE and Dust http://mrgimbleb.blogspot.com
Zatara Rought General Tso's Alliance 3181	Posted - 2014.05.24 01:57:00 - [292] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: Llast 326 wrote: Appia Vibbia wrote: MM 5% per level to Nova Knife Damage and Codebreakers efficacy AM Increase base Stamina/Stamina Regeneration. Add relevant, debatable scout skills CA 3% per level to efficacy of Precision Enhancers GA 3% per level to efficacy of Range Amplifiers Scout -15% CPU/PG per level to cloak. 5% per level to efficacy of Profile Dampeners Change Duvolle Focused Active Scanner to 5 second duration, 15 second cooldown, 24 dB Do you have a Mathpia chart on this You have my interest in thisGÇª but you know my math skillsGÇª yes and no. I'm mostly just throwing ideas out. they're more me being facetious than serious. Which is just the level I want to humor myself. But I do have the number chart for those I REALLY hope this is mostly facetiousness because believing you and moody want to make scout even more OP by making all of them unscannable at 3 damps is so mind blowing I almost had a brain aneurism mixed with an attack of apoplexy. CEO of FA, Candidate for CPM1 Follow me on twitter Skype Zatara.Rought

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 1588	Posted - 2014.05.24 01:58:00 - [293] - Quote Ok let me then put this out there, for Hotfix Alpha, not the end of time 1) GA scout bonus from dampening to duration 2) Brick tanking should become more difficult with plate penalties and PG changes 3) Duration is shortened and has class progression 4) Dampening of cloaks is reduced and has class progression 5) Caldari passive scan range reduced Later fixes intend to normalize PG/CPU so noone can fit anything he wants. The highest possible dampening beats the highest possible by GA logis "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2570	Posted - 2014.05.24 02:06:00 - [294] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: One Eyed King wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Appia Vibbia wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: My problem is by changing this one thing you have change so many other things. There's no magic bullet for this. It seems like you're making this far more complicated than it should be because "this is the way it's going to be." I really don't understand this mindset. However-- The most simple way: You'll need to change all scout suits base precisions so that with a max of 2 complex damps (caldari only has 2 lows) and a proto cloak active every scout can get under a gal focus scanner. You'll have to adjust the Gal's bonus for this accordingly so it doesn't get too low when it scales with all it's skills applied. As for the Gal and Cal, move their bonuses to modules but have them at the same effectiveness as they do now so players have to equip them to use the bonuses. Also you'll need to buff the Minmatar's PG because you are not going to fit a proto cloak on that thing. You can barely fit an adv cloak at proto level as it is with two damps. You guys are making this way too hard on yourselves. There are a lot of things you're going to need to rebalance and a lot of numbers to crunch. I definitely feel as if you guys are taking the wrong approach to fix this problem and are going to cause more by taking this route. Yep So what roles do Minmatar and Amarr have in this perfect scout/ewar/ PC equilibrium? These changes allow minmatar to do what they do best, knife, speed tank, hack without them being able to go so overboard that they become a new problem. They must have a role in the current equilibrium right? Without any changes. PC is almost exclusively GA and CA scouts. How does that compute? They really don't. The Minmatar has the flavor role of playing with Nova Knives. Without that bonus the weapon really isn;t any good. And the Nova Knives also gravitate to the fastest suit to be most effective. But to use the Alpha-damage weapons, such as Nova Knives, you need to have the element of surprise. Hacking bonus is great and all, but it loses out if the speed hacker can't stay undetected. People loved the Min-Logi for the bonus but you needed to go in with a team to make use of its effectiveness. If the Minmatar Scout can be detected by any scanners and still does not have 1 low slot free for a Codebreaker module than the Gallente Scout will out-preform the suit in that role of Scout-Hacker with 2 dampeners and 2 codebreakers vs 3 dampeners and skill bonus. So as it stands in the 0/2/5 concept of dampening on cloaks... the numbers are too low to be meaningful. Instead of providing the game with some balance you took away a role from another suit. To have any meaningful role on the battlefield the Minmatar Scout needs to overcome Cal-Scout or Gal-Logi Focues Scanner so they can approach an objective undetected. To have a finesse role they need to keep their dampening below detection until they make the first strike with Nova Knives. As it stands, using the Cloak Field as an Active Dampener has the trade-off of moving undetected (Electronically, as you're an obvious blue, glowing outline and not invisible visually at all). But to make an aggressive action you need to lose that dampening bonus and become noticeable. * the problem here is the decloak is too fast* It'd be nice to see if the dampening bonus was increased to 10% because then the Minmatar Scout could dedicate all three low slots to profile dampening and avoid scans... but as I said, it then loses out on the ability to be a scout hacker if it has to choose between the approach to the console vs speed of hacking the console. Too many of the Scout-dependent items are Low-Slot items. As an EVE vet I know they wanted to maintain a parallel of slot designation but when it's precision enhancers up high and range amps, dampeners, codebreakers, kincats, and CardRegs in the low slot the Gallente will be the best choice because it has the advantage of stealth over the amarr and equal number of low slots. The best, most honest solution I have, is move Codebreakers to the high-slot and reduce dampening bonus from 25% at each level to 10% at each level. The Amarr on the other hand is a whole different can of worms. They have nothing Scout-like about them that sperates them from other scouts. I've said I find them to be the best all-round suit but they don't have a specialization and that's something that needs to be added. Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2570	Posted - 2014.05.24 02:08:00 - [295] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Ok let me then put this out there, for Hotfix Alpha, not the end of time 1) GA scout bonus from dampening to duration 2) Brick tanking should become more difficult with plate penalties and PG changes 3) Duration is shortened and has class progression 4) Dampening of cloaks is reduced and has class progression 5) Caldari passive scan range reduced Later fixes intend to normalize PG/CPU so noone can fit anything he wants. The highest possible dampening fit beats the highest possible scan fit headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk FFS, no. do not make a bonus of any scout effect cloaks other than the racial one of fitting reduction Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
Zatara Rought General Tso's Alliance 3181	Posted - 2014.05.24 02:10:00 - [296] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Ok let me then put this out there, for Hotfix Alpha, not the end of time 1) GA scout bonus from dampening to duration 2) Brick tanking should become more difficult with plate penalties and PG changes 3) Duration is shortened and has class progression 4) Dampening of cloaks is reduced and has class progression 5) Caldari passive scan range reduced Later fixes intend to normalize PG/CPU so noone can fit anything he wants. The highest possible dampening fit beats the highest possible scan fit The highest possible dampening fit should take a metric **** ton of fitting to get under a gal logi focused and the focused needs to be the end all be all of scanning because it's active and involves other factors, not passive 360 stupid scans. All you REALLY need to do is put a bandaid on this until you can revisit the entire e-war situation. The way to do that is by keeping min scouts unscannable by making the proto cloak have 10% damp until later when you can COMPLETELY rid the cloak of a module bonus. Appia ran the math and it works. Then you don't need to rid the gal scout of it's bonus, maybe just kill it's range bonus in addition to killing the cal range bonus. CEO of FA, Candidate for CPM1 Follow me on twitter Skype Zatara.Rought
Starfire Revo Inner.Hell 284	Posted - 2014.05.24 02:11:00 - [297] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: 5) Caldari passive scan range reduced If this isn't a precision change, then only suits with 3x proto damps and a 10% cloak will be viable. I'm curious as to whether other scouts will be viable after these changes. I make videos of EVE and Dust http://www.youtube.com/mrgimbleb I write about EVE and Dust http://mrgimbleb.blogspot.com

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 1589	Posted - 2014.05.24 02:12:00 - [298] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Ok let me then put this out there, for Hotfix Alpha, not the end of time 1) GA scout bonus from dampening to duration 2) Brick tanking should become more difficult with plate penalties and PG changes 3) Duration is shortened and has class progression 4) Dampening of cloaks is reduced and has class progression 5) Caldari passive scan range reduced Later fixes intend to normalize PG/CPU so noone can fit anything he wants. The highest possible dampening fit beats the highest possible scan fit headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk headdesk FFS, no. do not make a bonus of any scout effect cloaks other than the racial one of fitting reduction Do you really think this sort of debate impresses anyone? Tsk, tsk. So reducing/removing the GA dampening bonus is a viable way. Good to know. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 1589	Posted - 2014.05.24 02:14:00 - [299] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Ok let me then put this out there, for Hotfix Alpha, not the end of time 1) GA scout bonus from dampening to duration 2) Brick tanking should become more difficult with plate penalties and PG changes 3) Duration is shortened and has class progression 4) Dampening of cloaks is reduced and has class progression 5) Caldari passive scan range reduced Later fixes intend to normalize PG/CPU so noone can fit anything he wants. The highest possible dampening fit beats the highest possible scan fit The highest possible dampening fit should take a metric **** ton of fitting to get under a gal logi focused and the focused needs to be the end all be all of scanning because it's active and involves other factors, not passive 360 stupid scans. All you REALLY need to do is put a bandaid on this until you can revisit the entire e-war situation. The way to do that is by keeping min scouts unscannable by making the proto cloak have 10% damp until later when you can COMPLETELY rid the cloak of a module bonus. Appia ran the math and it works. Then you don't need to rid the gal scout of it's bonus, maybe just kill it's range bonus in addition to killing the cal range bonus. Sounds reasonable enough. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

BlazeXYZ xCosmic Voidx Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 4	Posted - 2014.05.24 02:17:00 - [300] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Ok let me then put this out there, for Hotfix Alpha, not the end of time 1) GA scout bonus from dampening to duration 2) Brick tanking should become more difficult with plate penalties and PG changes 3) Duration is shortened and has class progression 4) Dampening of cloaks is reduced and has class progression 5) Caldari passive scan range reduced Later fixes intend to normalize PG/CPU so noone can fit anything he wants. The highest possible dampening fit beats the highest possible scan fit Ok what your saying is that change the dampening bonus to duration for gallente. What. Few days before since of the release of this so called hot fix alpha through statistics gallente scout was OP. NOW the caldari scout is OP. I mean with scan range reduced a Caldari Scout could scan every fricken dropsuit in the game, including a gallente logi with 4 different proto scans(Nyain San) Just equip one complex range amplifier and there is no problem. What's reality in the days to come, look behind you, a shotgun to your face by a caldari scout. Why? Cause he scanned you first your dead. In my opinion the minmatar scout would be the worst option for a scout. Rethink this, because one affects all. Blaze



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