Ok let me then put this out there,

for Hotfix Alpha, not the end of time

1) GA scout bonus from dampening to duration
2) Brick tanking should become more difficult with plate penalties and PG changes
3) Duration is shortened and has class progression
4) Dampening of cloaks is reduced and has class progression
5) Caldari passive scan range reduced

Later fixes intend to normalize PG/CPU so noone can fit anything he wants.

The highest possible dampening fit beats the highest possible scan fit

LATER you need to give the min a base hack bonus of 1.25 so that while undetected it's still a super fast hacker and isn't outclassed by the gal when it attempts to fill it's role due to the gal being 2 modules worth of difference better when attempting to be undetectable.

e-war needs to be balanced around all scouts being feasibly damped to a point like this:

it doesn't tell you how to get there, just tells you what the end product need to be:

Minmatar scouts should take 2 complex damps to get under all but a cal scout with 3 complex precision or a dude using a regular focused scanner (2 complex 1 enhanced), and require 3 complex to get under a cal scout using 4 complex precision. Gal logi using focused scanners should be able to pick it up for the 5 second duration assuming you are in the radius and range.

Amarr should be the same except 4 complex should get you under a gal logi using a focused.

Gallente should be the same except require one less damp.

Cal should be limited by their 2 low slots and thus would only be immune to all but a regular focused, gal focused, and other cal scouts.

No real thoughts on balancing medium's using precisions except a 1 to 1 ratio vs other mediums.

I also refrained from commenting on scouts precision outside of cal scout, which is why this may all be flawed. Who knows i'm tired. Night.

I absolutely think a dude specced into gal logi for the scan bonus and using a piece of equipment that only lights you up for 5 seconds should be the end all be all at counterplay to dampening. and that it should take an arm and a leg for scouts to get under a 4 precision cal scout, and give you pause when considering if it's worth it to get under a gal logi trying to pick you up with a focused.

The Amarr Assault is down a slot
The Caldari and Gallente Assaults have bonuses that are ill-fitting and limiting to just racial weapons
The Minmatar Assault still has the odd layout and is still CPU/PG starved.

And there is too much overlap between the role of an Assault and the role of Commando.

The Base HP between Light and Medium is not that great after multiple HP modules are added to both suits simultaneously in equal numbers.

The Gallente Scout is overly attractive because it has the highest base repair rate, much like the Logi was the most desirable frame before because it has a repair rate of 5hp/s. 1hp/s gives it flavor. 3hp/sec gives it utility.

Why, oh why, would people flock to scouts when Assault suits look so desirable.

You pointed out that Cirius Li-Moody was vocal about the changes. And for some reason you think an inconsequential 2 and 5% bonus on cloaks is a compromise.

Now you come around and say, "Gallente looks OP. They should be nerfed as well"

The Amarr Assault is down a slot
The Caldari and Gallente Assaults have bonuses that are ill-fitting and limiting to just racial weapons
The Minmatar Assault still has the odd layout and is still CPU/PG starved.

And there is too much overlap between the role of an Assault and the role of Commando.

The Base HP between Light and Medium is not that great after multiple HP modules are added to both suits simultaneously in equal numbers.

The Gallente Scout is overly attractive because it has the highest base repair rate, much like the Logi was the most desirable frame before because it has a repair rate of 5hp/s. 1hp/s gives it flavor. 3hp/sec gives it utility.

Why, oh why, would people flock to scouts when Assault suits look so desirable.

You pointed out that Cirius Li-Moody was vocal about the changes. And for some reason you think an inconsequential 2 and 5% bonus on cloaks is a compromise.

Now you come around and say, "Gallente looks OP. They should be nerfed as well"

Ok let me then put this out there,

for Hotfix Alpha, not the end of time

1) GA scout bonus from dampening to duration
2) Brick tanking should become more difficult with plate penalties and PG changes
3) Duration is shortened and has class progression
4) Dampening of cloaks is reduced and has class progression
5) Caldari passive scan range reduced

Later fixes intend to normalize PG/CPU so noone can fit anything he wants.

The highest possible dampening fit beats the highest possible scan fit

Suggestion:
Lvl(5) Scout+ 2 Cmp damps + proto cloak (on) = unscannable

24CPU, 14PG, 1 EQ slot
vs
215CPU, 19 PG, 1 EQ slot and 4 Low slots.

yep. Gallente Logistics are SPECIALIZE, with capitalization even.

1 low cost active modules can only be avoided by 4 low slots costing 33 CPU each and an active equipment slot that takes 87 CPU and 18 PG. Totally comparable.

[quote=CCP Rattati]
Later fixes intend to normalize PG/CPU so noone can fit anything he wants.

24CPU, 14PG, 1 EQ slot
vs
215CPU, 19 PG, 1 EQ slot and 4 Low slots.

yep. Gallente Logistics are SPECIALIZE, with capitalization even.

1 low cost active modules can only be avoided by 4 low slots costing 33 CPU each and an active equipment slot that takes 87 CPU and 18 PG. Totally comparable.

1) GA scout bonus from dampening to duration
2) Brick tanking should become more difficult with plate penalties and PG changes
3) Duration is shortened and has class progression
4) Dampening of cloaks is reduced and has class progression
5) Caldari passive scan range reduced

The highest possible dampening fit beats the highest possible scan fit

Completely disagree and by doing this you make Scouts OP.

This negates counterplay and allows them to accomplish 2 much with 2 little.

Looks really good, Appia. The only thing I'd change is AM as stealth ULS are likely not possible.

Scout - Cloak + Damp
MM - NK + Hack
AM - Biotics
CA - Precision
GA - Range

* 2 Cmp damp + cloaked = unscannable

@ Rattati
Most of those GalScouts are mercs waiting for better Assaults. The number will drop when we get a new slayer suit.

Exceptions:
*CalScout w/ 4 cmp precision
*GalLogi w/ focused AS

Response:
Bullish, Zatara. Build for me a single OP Scout with 2 lows dedicated to Damps. Note that cloak cycles quickly, so this beast of yours will be vulnerable to scan more often than not. Go.

Zatara, if it's that difficult to stay hidden they simply won't do it. They will instead fit plates. It homogenizes the battlefield when things get to difficult to counter.

--snip--

Ok, scouts, please come back to me on this problem, exactly as I word it.

Here is the premise

1) I want to encourage stealth players to go to proto cloak
2) GA scout will be the only scout that is completely unscannable
3) Not let GA scouts be the only stealth scouts and use cloaks

So, I have been told, I can verify when I am back at work, that if we change the cloak to be at 10% dampening instead of 5% at PRO, at least 3 stealth scouts are viable with cloak, GA, CA and MM. I think that's fine, I don't think everyone should be equally good at everthing. Amarr will get a look soon.

Max scan precision from CA scout is 17 (if my math is correct), terrible close to 16.

Since I want the only thing to beat the 100% dedicated scout scanner to be a 100% dedicated stealth scout.

A triple complex dampened, GA scout with a cloak at the new 10% level is at 13.5 or 14 dB.

That means we can reduce the GA Scout bonus to 15% to 25% and still stay under the CA scout at 15.3 or 16dB.

Thereby forcing the dedicate GA scout to sacrifice a low in most cases, so that he can't spend it on armor.


For the coup de grace, we can reduce the range of the CA passive scan a little bit because it's unnecessarily good.


Please respond to this in a civil manner, we are actively trying to listen and adapt our proposals based on your feedback.

Hi, your proposals sounds fine, but you have to understand two slots isn't much for a suit that gets two free low slot modules worth of bonuses/innate suit properties.

This "sacrafice" is what the other scouts already have to do with their low slots.

Amarr gets a meaningful bonus that plays to their strenghts (light assault) as they will be able to view all medium and heavy suits, but are unable to stack precision to find scouts.

Zatara, if it's that difficult to stay hidden they simply won't do it. They will instead fit plates. It homogenizes the battlefield when things get to difficult to counter.

a slot is a slot is a slot, doesn't matter if it takes a complex or a basic. Three slots and a piece of equipment is too much.

Dedicating 4 slots and 4x the PG/CPU to beat a single equipment is too much,

Rattati read my post above yours. Basically states answers to your current changes.

Why should a scout sacrifice their ENTIRE fitting just to remain hidden from a single piece if equipment.

I am fine if we reduce the two free slots to one, at least to begin with.