*snip*
Max scan precision from CA scout is 17 (if my math is correct), terribly close to 16.
*snip*
Please respond to this in a civil manner, we are actively trying to listen and adapt our proposals based on your feedback.

*snip*
It's got flaws as far as what is takes to get below scans because it doesn't factor in the rounding up portion.
*snip*

On the hotfix alpha spreadsheet, the proposed cloak duration is 15/30/45 STD-ADV-PRO. If those were the final numbers, would you like what I'm suggesting?

Rofl...how do you figure? Please tell me

also LS?

Did you change the bonus to the Caldari Scout? Taking stacking penalty into account makes a Caldari Scout with 4 complex precision enhancers end up close to 14.91



Rounding up portion? Please explain.


New Table: Link at the bottom of the post.

Gallente Scout 15% Profile Dampening bonus (Used to be 25%)

Columns are:
N = No Cloak Field
S = Standard Cloak Field (0% Dampening Bonus, used to be 25%)
A = Advanced Cloak Field (5% Dampening Bonus, used to be 25%)
P = Prototype Cloak Field (10% Dampening Bonus, used to be 25%)

Pale Green = 0 Complex Profile Dampeners
Green = 1 Complex Profile Dampeners
Cyan = 2 Complex Profile Dampeners
Blue = 3 Complex Profile Dampeners
Purple = 4 Complex Profile Dampeners
Pink = 5 Complex Profile Dampeners

Table: LINK

Also, what's your angle Zatara?

You're parlaying an isolated OP item (bricked GalScout) into a nerf package for all Scouts. Next, we'll buff Assaults. Then Scouts will be wholly non competitive. Again.

Why?

Low Slot

Check the math w/out bonus.
Compare to range of any fine rifle.

Why nerf the CalScout?
It isn't the problem.

HEY! <3

SOmeone asked me a question. SO.

On this here scanning table for example it lists 4 complex damps on a non gal scout that is non cloaked under the section for quadprecision cal.

Whats the purpose of telling me 4 complex damps? that that 14.73 you have listed rounds up to 15 and thus is scanned by a cal quad and gal focused.

make sense?

Nerf package for all scouts?
Are you referring to the cloak duration or something else?

If it's the cloak duration, it really is unnecessarily long.

Also, what's your angle Zatara?

You're parlaying an isolated OP item (bricked GalScout) into a nerf package for all Scouts. Next, we'll buff Assaults. Then Scouts will be wholly non competitive. Again.

Why?

Frack your ploys, Zatara. You've crossed my line. Accept my resignation from the corp.

- Shotty GoBang (an actual scout)

Hmm... If you have a Caldari Scout can we jump on Dust and try it out? You can find me in #Legio or Scouts United

Alas my friend I've been up all night watching this thread like a hawk and now i'm quite sleepy.

But i'm def down to try it out soon.

Disagree. We're actually having a pretty long argument about this in Skype but I personally don't think Active Scanners should be some end-all thing against Scouts.

As I've said. Active Scanners, and by default the Gallente Logi, should be a general purpose squad-level method of information gathering. The Caldari Scout should be used for precision hunting of targets that dip below the range of the Active Scanners to create a Specialist vs Specialist niche in the game. Both are in the same field of play but with unique uses for both.

As far as the Focused Active Scanner, I personally think that it's a problem because it bleeds too much into the Caldari Scout's specialization. At Level 5 a Gallente Logi has an Active Scanner that has 15db precision, which is pretty hard for anything to overcome. I personally just think it's bad whenever a single piece of equipment is comparable a Lvl 5 Caldari Scout with four complex precision enhancers (14.91db)

I'd personally like to see the Caldari Scout's range reduced and there's a few ways to go about that: Remove the range bonus on the Cal/Gal Scout suits, change the base range, change the bonus of range amplifiers, etc.

EDIT: Re-evaluated my argument with different perspective provided. Hitting the range amplifiers would negatively affect other playstyles, so it's not my opinion the best way to handle the situation is to kill the range bonus on the Caldari Scout because it's too powerful and the Gallente Scout because it contributes absolutely nothing to it's specialization of dipping beneath TacNet.

I feel changing the gal and caldari scouts suits bonuses to module efficacy bonuses for scan range and profile reduction are a good idea for all scouts.

It would mean that armor bricked tanked scouts would be sacrificing more to have more health in firefights. They would have much less profile dampening and scan range without dampening and/or scan precision/range enhancer modules. It would be easier for the assaults suits we have today to scan those armor tanked scouts and evade those armor scouts passive scan sometimes.

It would add value to dampening mods and ewar mods for scouts while the value of armor mods may stay the same because scouts would be at an even larger disadvantage in ewar than ever before if they completely filled the slots with armor mods. (it would make light assaults(armor tanked scouts) and scouts (ewar scouts) seem even more different and unique as well).

That would require a change to the Minmatar so that they ate forced to equip code breakers and side arm damage mods, same with the Amarr and cardiac regs.

When will Hotfix Alpha being released

To recap and please don't derail this

Cloak Dampening 0-5-10 STD-ADV-PRO

MM, AM, GA are unscannable if PRO cloaked with additional dampeners.

what does the GA scout dampening bonus of 25% need to be reduced by so GA scouts still have an advantage as the best stealth suit, without being OP? Take into account that the 3 hp/s is also making it very OP and that may be reduced and/or eliminated as well.


Please only answer that question for the time being.

Thanks

I want to recap real quick. For a gal scout to hide from gal logi focused scans they need to be cloaked and have 3 low slots filled with damps.

The problem is, they only have 45 seconds of time to remain invisible. Once scanned it's too late(active scan mechanics keep you lit up on tac net even if your profile drops due to cloaks) This sort of nerf will not allow gal scouts to be invisible. Gal logi WILL spam focused tools to create a window of opportunity that won't allow gal scouts to remain hidden. Therefore no scout will ever remain hidden.

Caldari scout could never remain invisible, this is not new. Radar invisibility is not the problem with gal scouts.

Again i think it's better off to make it so cloaks hide you from active scans of the same meta level. Allow gal scouts to hide from focused scans. It's mathematically possible and likely going to take a lot of thought. That's the only appropriate way to balance.

Lastly, I'll say it again, four slots AND use of an active mod to defeat a single piece of equipment is not balanced. The sacrifice a must take to hide is not worth the cost to do so. Therefore it won't happen because it's not guaranteed to keep them off the radar(active module)

I want to recap real quick. For a gal scout to hide from gal logi focused scans they need to be cloaked and have 3 low slots filled with damps.

The problem is, they only have 45 seconds of time to remain invisible. Once scanned it's too late(active scan mechanics keep you lit up on tac net even if your profile drops due to cloaks) This sort of nerf will not allow gal scouts to be invisible. Gal logi WILL spam focused tools to create a window of opportunity that won't allow gal scouts to remain hidden. Therefore no scout will ever remain hidden.

Caldari scout could never remain invisible, this is not new. Radar invisibility is not the problem with gal scouts.

Again i think it's better off to make it so cloaks hide you from active scans of the same meta level. Allow gal scouts to hide from focused scans. It's mathematically possible and likely going to take a lot of thought. That's the only appropriate way to balance.

Lastly, I'll say it again, four slots AND use of an active mod to defeat a single piece of equipment is not balanced. The sacrifice a must take to hide is not worth the cost to do so. Therefore it won't happen because it's not guaranteed to keep them off the radar(active module)

a gal with 3 damps will be under enough that the cloak bonus doesn't matter.

The other scouts wil have 45 seconds to accomplish a goal and regroup.

we agree on the 4 slots.

Make it 3 slots max.

As for the underline..I can't tell if you think this is currently? cause it's not. if you think this has been proposed? I haven't seen Ratatti sign off on a nerf that would make the gal need 3 YET.

A triple complex dampened, GA scout with a cloak at the new 10% level is at 13.5 or 14 dB.

14dB means under the focused radar.

Apologies, sidebar.

Wasn't there some discussion about whether these values ended up being round up by the system, as previously getting down to 17.8 profile would still be scanned by an 18dB scan? Is that still the case, and will 13.5 round up to 14, meaning that the Gal can't get below the scanner?

Just curious, as to the best of my knowledge the exact working of the mechanism has never been confirmed by CCP, so most of our calcs are working on assumptions and field work, not the actual details.

Basically proves that gallente logi is the all mighty scanning machine beating the caldari scout. Is this what you call balance to the game.

Basically proves that gallente logi is the all mighty scanning machine beating the caldari scout. Is this what you call balance to the game.

14dB means under the focused radar.