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D legendary hero
Ultramarine Corp
1686
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Posted - 2014.02.21 17:07:00 -
[481] - Quote
Awry Barux wrote:echo47 wrote:No respec.
With the SP events advanced notice of changes we have all had plenty of time to save up skill points. Ohhh my god let's play a game called "how many times can I repost answers to arguments I've already dealt with?" Awry Barux wrote:
I've said this 1000 times before and I'll say it again: it is NOT the same thing for you proto-ed vets to save SP as it is for all of us <15mil plebes to save SP. You can perform your role at maximum efficiency while saving SP. For everyone else, we have to directly suffer in the short term (the short term being multiple months) in order to save for CCP's wild changes. So quit playing the holier-than-thou game.
sweet jesus man, this is like the 7th time you had to repost it.
these guys just don't understand everything is changing utterly. The minmatar logi will become the most worthless suit in the game.
- its the logi with the lostest, ehp, only marginally higher speed (.3 extra m/s ..ohhhhhh) which is neutralized when you put on armro plates to have any actually ehp.
- now it gets a bonus to armor repair tools. Great! except the rep tool is being nerfed into the ground so, there is no point to it. at proficiency you get less range and rep rate than you have now. Most minmatar suits dnt have enough armor to be repaired anyway.
- galente heavies could use the rep, but they have innate reps anyway, and their are better suits that can use rep tools.
all and all the hack speed is gone, the rep tool is broke, and minmatar logi is garbage, like all the other minmatar suits. So, this is reason enough for a respec itself.
The minmatar scout will get the hack speed bonus, but besides that nova knives? really? the minmatar assault suit gets a bonus to minmatar weapons and ammo size, but the low ehp means you probably won't survive long enough to take advantage of that. hint: using minmatar weapons at range =/= kills.
the minmatar commando may be useful. the minmatar heavy is literally a slower medium frame wth lower ehp potential than a galente and caldari standard frame, and slower speed.
The game is changing entirely. a respec is deserved.
Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubados_Pronto saberá justiça
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Zaaeed Massani
Zincress
8
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 21:07:00 -
[482] - Quote
Here's my take on a SP refund, as a player intimately familiar with MMO's and FPS games but new to the EVE Universe (just under 5M SP):
First off, discounting any and all arguments that lack logical points, the number of relevant arguments against a refund shrink dramatically. All of those left are purely subjective, unless I missed some (which is entirely possible, given the ridiculous volume of spam about the topic that has popped up in recent weeks). The only truly logical, objective arguments I've seen endorse a full SP refund of the Dropsuit Command, Dropsuit Upgrades, and Weapons trees. The case can be made that only Heavies, Scouts, and Heavy Weapons should be refunded, though I must admit I'm firmly in the camp that supports a full SP refund for all three previously mentioned meta-trees. Here's why:
I started playing this game toward the end of 1.6. I thought I had been thorough, doing my research and choosing my specializations and all before even installing the game. I like the idea of supporting democracy, and so I rolled Gallente. I fight for the Federal Marines, and I support the Minmatar Republic in their ongoing fight against the Amarr and Caldari. As an avid RP'er, I specced into Gallente medium suits because I wasn't a huge fan of the low ehp of light suits and there were no Gallente or Minmatar Heavy suits. I chose to spec into Logistics because I've always enjoyed playing utility classes in previous MMO's. Yet I couldn't truly know what my playstyle would be until I got deeper into the game. As I did, I realized I'm much more suited to the assault play style than the logistics playstyle. And I still wish there was a Gallente Heavy. Unfortunately, I have a significant portion (roughly 10%) of my total SP put into suits that do not click with my playstyle.
All the background above is completely aside of the topic that many, many, logis are essentially having the rug yanked out from under them, the Minmatar logi pre- and post-1.8 being the prime example. I, for one, do not use scanners all that often. I run solo alot due to the times of day that I play, and when I do run with my corp I'm never the designated scanner. I prefer to shoot people and drop uplinks in strategic places, not heal other players and scan. Incidentally, based on the previous sentence it's easy (in hindsight) to pinpoint that I will most enjoy the assault, commando, sentinel, and scout suits. Assault likely being the most versatile.
As far as weapons and equipment go, I specced into every single piece of equipment because I thought I had to as a logi. I specced into most weapons to try them before realizing that I could just roll an alt and spec into each weapon tree then, and after a week have tried literally every weapon in the game at the advanced level.
TL; DR:
There is a lot of work to be done by CCP in the areas of balancing, matchmaking, and content expansion...but a SP refund of the meta-trees affected by the 1.8 update will go a long way toward fostering some goodwill in their playerbase. 30M+ SP vets are likely saving SP to grab their preferred proto gear as soon as 1.8 drops. Other players (such as your truly) do not have that luxury, as we are pretty much limited to advanced-level gear and are still working on acquiring prototype gear. Giving us the opportuntiy to streamline our SP choices will make a huge difference in our satisfaction with the game, even if our in-game performance isn't strongly affected. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
11318
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Posted - 2014.02.21 21:21:00 -
[483] - Quote
Inb4devresponse
Videos / Fiction
Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
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Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1104
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Posted - 2014.02.21 21:38:00 -
[484] - Quote
The perfect analogy, supplied by yours truly.
Baal Omniscient wrote:It's like you bought an RPG, but overnight instead of firing rockets it changed to firing high-caliber projectile rounds like some shoulder-mounted cannon. It's still functional as a weapon, it still shoots stuff and everything, you can still use it to cause mayhem and destruction, but it serves a completely different purpose than what you bought it for. It's uses are limited in some ways to how it functioned before while being more useful in other ways, but if you bought it for the purpose of exploding the hell out of stuff, it's useless to you now.
/analogy
MAG ~ Raven
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echo47
Minmatar Republic
193
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Posted - 2014.02.21 22:03:00 -
[485] - Quote
D legendary hero wrote:Awry Barux wrote:echo47 wrote:No respec.
With the SP events advanced notice of changes we have all had plenty of time to save up skill points. Ohhh my god let's play a game called "how many times can I repost answers to arguments I've already dealt with?" Awry Barux wrote:
I've said this 1000 times before and I'll say it again: it is NOT the same thing for you proto-ed vets to save SP as it is for all of us <15mil plebes to save SP. You can perform your role at maximum efficiency while saving SP. For everyone else, we have to directly suffer in the short term (the short term being multiple months) in order to save for CCP's wild changes. So quit playing the holier-than-thou game.
sweet jesus man, this is like the 7th time you had to repost it. these guys just don't understand everything is changing utterly. The minmatar logi will become the most worthless suit in the game.
- its the logi with the lostest, ehp, only marginally higher speed (.3 extra m/s ..ohhhhhh) which is neutralized when you put on armro plates to have any actually ehp.
- now it gets a bonus to armor repair tools. Great! except the rep tool is being nerfed into the ground so, there is no point to it. at proficiency you get less range and rep rate than you have now. Most minmatar suits dnt have enough armor to be repaired anyway.
- galente heavies could use the rep, but they have innate reps anyway, and their are better suits that can use rep tools.
all and all the hack speed is gone, the rep tool is broke, and minmatar logi is garbage, like all the other minmatar suits. So, this is reason enough for a respec itself. The minmatar scout will get the hack speed bonus, but besides that nova knives? really? the minmatar assault suit gets a bonus to minmatar weapons and ammo size, but the low ehp means you probably won't survive long enough to take advantage of that. hint: using minmatar weapons at range =/= kills. the minmatar commando may be useful. the minmatar heavy is literally a slower medium frame wth lower ehp potential than a galente and caldari standard frame, and slower speed. The game is changing entirely. a respec is deserved.
These are the changes people asked for. Thread after thread complaining about slayer logis. Thread after thread complaining of lack of diversity and meaningful roles. Thread after thread complaining about equipment spam.
If you do not like the changes skill into another suit, buy earning warpoints.
Yeah there are changes but a respec will not prevent the changes from taking place. The stats for dropsuits will be the same wether you get a respec or not.
If there was a thread this long asking for a removal or increase in the skill point cap you guys might be on to something.
I would rather look bad and win, than look good and lose.
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Vordred Knight
Endless Hatred
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
2
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Posted - 2014.02.22 03:04:00 -
[486] - Quote
N1ck Comeau wrote:Basically confirmed.
^
This
ashes to ashes dust to dust we are nothing but dust and to dust you shall return - Father Alexander Anderson
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Awry Barux
New Eden Blades Of The Azure
Zero-Day
1016
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Posted - 2014.02.22 03:06:00 -
[487] - Quote
Vordred Knight wrote:N1ck Comeau wrote:Basically confirmed. ^ This
Not confirmed enough. |
TunRa
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
490
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Posted - 2014.02.22 03:20:00 -
[488] - Quote
I just want a dropsuit respec. BECAUSE I ONLY HAVE ONE HEAVY SUIT!
Thanks CCP Foxfour
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D legendary hero
Ultramarine Corp
1699
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 04:08:00 -
[489] - Quote
echo47 wrote:D legendary hero wrote:Awry Barux wrote:echo47 wrote:No respec.
With the SP events advanced notice of changes we have all had plenty of time to save up skill points. Ohhh my god let's play a game called "how many times can I repost answers to arguments I've already dealt with?" Awry Barux wrote:
I've said this 1000 times before and I'll say it again: it is NOT the same thing for you proto-ed vets to save SP as it is for all of us <15mil plebes to save SP. You can perform your role at maximum efficiency while saving SP. For everyone else, we have to directly suffer in the short term (the short term being multiple months) in order to save for CCP's wild changes. So quit playing the holier-than-thou game.
sweet jesus man, this is like the 7th time you had to repost it. these guys just don't understand everything is changing utterly. The minmatar logi will become the most worthless suit in the game.
- its the logi with the lostest, ehp, only marginally higher speed (.3 extra m/s ..ohhhhhh) which is neutralized when you put on armro plates to have any actually ehp.
- now it gets a bonus to armor repair tools. Great! except the rep tool is being nerfed into the ground so, there is no point to it. at proficiency you get less range and rep rate than you have now. Most minmatar suits dnt have enough armor to be repaired anyway.
- galente heavies could use the rep, but they have innate reps anyway, and their are better suits that can use rep tools.
all and all the hack speed is gone, the rep tool is broke, and minmatar logi is garbage, like all the other minmatar suits. So, this is reason enough for a respec itself. The minmatar scout will get the hack speed bonus, but besides that nova knives? really? the minmatar assault suit gets a bonus to minmatar weapons and ammo size, but the low ehp means you probably won't survive long enough to take advantage of that. hint: using minmatar weapons at range =/= kills. the minmatar commando may be useful. the minmatar heavy is literally a slower medium frame wth lower ehp potential than a galente and caldari standard frame, and slower speed. The game is changing entirely. a respec is deserved. These are the changes people asked for. Thread after thread complaining about slayer logis. Thread after thread complaining of lack of diversity and meaningful roles. Thread after thread complaining about equipment spam. If you do not like the changes skill into another suit, buy earning warpoints. Yeah there are changes but a respec will not prevent the changes from taking place. The stats for dropsuits will be the same wether you get a respec or not. If there was a thread this long asking for a removal or increase in the skill point cap you guys might be on to something.
no one ever complained about MINMATAR SLAYER LOGI's. and since when was a minmatar logi ever good at equipement spam... it'd have to have only 500 ehp at proto...
besides equipement spam isn't the true source of all the lagg, but the maps with all the extra textures that when combined with equipment cause a measure of lagg.
no duh, bro respecs do not prevent changes. but they give the gamer a choice. and making choices is what MMO's are all about.
Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubados_Pronto saberá justiça
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D legendary hero
Ultramarine Corp
1699
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 04:11:00 -
[490] - Quote
25 pages with 95% support for respec. it's only been 3 days since this thread started. and it was placed in features and discussion a location many gamers avoid entirely...
yeah. respec is pretty much confirmed. Not to make the desicion for CCP, but with this much support even after relocating to a dead area can't be ignored.
Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubados_Pronto saberá justiça
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Scout Registry
Nos Nothi
1315
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 04:29:00 -
[491] - Quote
Chase FoTM.
Keep FoTM.
Opposed.
- 32 million SP (some in bad places) |
Crimson ShieId
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
87
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 04:35:00 -
[492] - Quote
Honestly don't care that much either way, I'm hoping for one but I won't be massively disappointed if CCP doesn't give one. Heck, I'll be on Dark Souls 2 for about two months, who needs respecs when you've got passive SP?  Though I'll admit, it would seem a bit odd if vehicle pilots got a respec but infantry didn't. Kind of flipping the bird to a chunk of the player base there. I just want to ditch my logi and get my core skills maxed out  My scout needs some boosts!
Sometimes I miss never seeing tanks in a battle... then I remember the mystical flying soma, and I can't help but smile.
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Awry Barux
New Eden Blades Of The Azure
Zero-Day
1019
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 04:36:00 -
[493] - Quote
Scout Registry wrote:Chase FoTM.
Keep FoTM.
Not in favor of respec.
- 32 million SP (some in bad places, but I own my decisions)
Time to address the FoTM argument for the millionth time. *yawn*
Vets are sitting on millions of unallocated SP, completely ready to jump on the 1.8 FoTM train whether there's a respec or not. There's no way to stop that. FoTM is inevitable. The only players hurt by a lack of a respec are those who are still in the middle of skilling their first role, i.e. those with <10-15mil SP, who are going to have a comparatively huge portion of their SP tied up in suits, upgrades, and weapons that will be obsolete when the powerful new content is introduced. A respec can only help even the playing field.
Also, I know that I, and many other players, want particular suits and playstyles regardless of whether or not they turn out to be FoTM. A respec will allow us to preserve our battlefield roles despite 1.8's complete role overhaul (i.e. min logi going from speed hacker / scout-logi to the designated heavy humper). |
echo47
Minmatar Republic
193
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 04:40:00 -
[494] - Quote
D legendary hero wrote:
no one ever complained about MINMATAR SLAYER LOGI's. and since when was a minmatar logi ever good at equipement spam... it'd have to have only 500 ehp at proto...
besides equipement spam isn't the true source of all the lagg, but the maps with all the extra textures that when combined with equipment cause a measure of lagg.
no duh, bro respecs do not prevent changes. but they give the gamer a choice. and making choices is what MMO's are all about.
So are you saying would not have choice in were to put your skill points if you don't get a respec?
Logis wree compalined about constantly some even wanted to make them side arm only. The complaint about slayer logis were backed up with they are too good in every role, minmatar included.
Guess what your logis now have a role and bonus to support it.
If CCP gives a respec it will be as big a mistake as not resetting skills and isk at launch.
I would rather look bad and win, than look good and lose.
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Sgt Buttscratch
KILL-EM-QUICK
1738
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 06:11:00 -
[495] - Quote
I disagree with the idea of a respec/refund totally rude to those who have played a scout or commando for the last x amount of bullshit months.
And the logis.....looool, their tears are epic, Keep em!!! You changed the stats...qq, well sorry guys you've had months of being everything but logis.
I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas
Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
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Awry Barux
New Eden Blades Of The Azure
Zero-Day
1020
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 06:43:00 -
[496] - Quote
Sgt Buttscratch wrote:I disagree with the idea of a respec/refund totally rude to those who have played a scout or commando for the last x amount of bullshit months.
And the logis.....looool, their tears are epic, Keep em!!! You changed the stats...qq, well sorry guys you've had months of being everything but logis.
IDGAF about the balance changes. My scouty hacker logi is being turned into the designated heavy humper. Sticking me with a massive role shift like that seems pretty "rude" too. |
FarQue FromAfar
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
40
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 07:50:00 -
[497] - Quote
[quote=Zaaeed Massani]Here's my take on a SP refund, as a player intimately familiar with MMO's and FPS games but new to the EVE Universe (just under 5M SP):
Then don"t talk like you know anything ok.... Whatever you said was lost to the cyberspace when you said under 5 million SP... I am sure you had a good argument... But the fact is, no matter how much SP you have, and I don't give a rats booty how much you saved to become this months Flavor "Of" The Month and CRY and CRY that those "Blueberries" do not need a respec..... Just because YOU saved SP and play a losing "Lobby Shooter" and want to stay "Top Dogs" Does not mean that the game has changed.... YES IT HAS CHANGED!!!! Time for CCP to suck the respec BALLZ and let everyone change the SP to where THEY want it... MANY have said, if the FoTM is just 1 more month like OP tanks... then let it be so... Because I can say open hearted... that commando suits will not amount to a pile of poo in 2 months... If so then guess what... the dust CCP part of the game we honestly wanted with MTAC'S (See TitanFall)and PvE and an open EVE- Dust -EVE player market, with options to run with EVE players for ninja tactics on big EVE ships.... Then the last Fan Fest with racial MCC's and Fighter type ships other than dropships.... MVAC's.... ALL Racial suits is all they can deliver... and AR weapons???? WTF
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Ryme Intrinseca
Fatal Absolution
770
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 14:03:00 -
[498] - Quote
Just confirm the respec CCP. You can see that there is an overwhelming case in favour, given that you are changing how pretty much every combination of suit, weapons, and upgrades works. Sometimes even the playstyle is changing fundamentally, as with the minlogi.
You can also see that there is a massive majority in favour, and that you'll lose a lot of players if you don't do it. After the vehicle-only respec and invincible tanks, no infantry respec really would the last straw for a lot of infantry. |
Zaaeed Massani
Zincress
13
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 14:15:00 -
[499] - Quote
Grammar and punctuation are your friend. Let me clean that up for you a bit...
FarQue FromAfar wrote:Zaaeed Massani wrote:Here's my take on a SP refund, as a player intimately familiar with MMO's and FPS games but new to the EVE Universe (just under 5M SP): Then don't talk like you know anything, ok? Whatever you said was lost to the cyberspace when you said under 5 million SP. I am sure you had a good argument. but the fact is no matter how much SP you have I don't give a rats booty how much you saved to become this month's "Flavor Of The Month" and CRY and CRY that those "Blueberries" do not need a respec..... Just because YOU saved SP and play a losing "Lobby Shooter" and want to stay "Top Dog s" does not mean that the game has changed. But, YES IT HAS CHANGED!!!! Time for CCP to suck the respec BALLZ and let everyone change their SP to where THEY want. MANY have said, if the FoTM is just 1 more month like OP tanks, then let it be so. Because I can say open wholeheartedly that commando suits will not amount to a pile of poo in 2 months. If so then guess what? The dust CCP part of the game we honestly wanted with MTAC'S (See TitanFall) and PvE and an open EVE - Dust - EVE player market, with options to run with EVE players for ninja tactics on big EVE ships, and then the last Fan Fest with racial MCC's and fighter type ships other than dropships, MVAC's, etc seems not to be. ALL Racial suits is all they can deliver...and AR weapons???? WTF
There, that's better.
Now, allow me to enlighten you as to the degree of idiocy you displayed.
I am not a FotM fanboi. I am a RP'er through-and-through. I made my decision roll Gallente logi very carefully (as detailed in my above post which you clearly chose not to read. Moreover, I am 100% supportive of a refund of the three meta-trees affected by the proposed 1.8 changes.
Now, go bother someone else. Shoo! |
Aikuchi Tomaru
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1808
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 15:36:00 -
[500] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Just confirm the respec CCP.
You know there is an overwhelming case in favour, given that you are changing how pretty much every combination of suit, weapons, and upgrades works. Sometimes even the playstyle is changing fundamentally, as with the minlogi.
You can also see that there is a massive majority in favour, and that you'll lose a lot of players if you don't do it. After the vehicle-only respec and months of invincible tanks, no infantry respec really would the last straw for a lot of infantry.
What they see is a loud minority. In a poll which was hold not too long ago barely anybody cared about respecs.
Sign up for Caldari FW and defeat the evil Gallente Overlords!
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Sam Tektzby
Better Hide R Die
191
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Posted - 2014.02.22 15:37:00 -
[501] - Quote
Oki after some time WE have here approx 96proc. of COMMUNITY supported RESPEC. And CCP is STILL silent, its easy this was just PUSH from GLOBAL by CCP. Whats mean they DONT care at all. And i though logibro is for community, another dissapointing thing about DUST.
By the way, i saw another duo who dont like idea and they still DONT sent some proper cons of OUR support for RESPEC. What is mean that four procents are just ignoration/trolling/selfishness.
Quite sad, Quite SAD.
Support - Tactician/Support
Deteis - Orator
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Loki Noveau
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
9
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Posted - 2014.02.22 15:45:00 -
[502] - Quote
Personally, I'd like a refund come 1.8. If we don't get one, well, so be it. Just means I still have more SP to save up.
Another solution is to make an Aurum-based Respec. Charge like 25,000 AUR or whatever to have a characters SP reset. If people REALLY want that respect they will just have to pay for it otherwise they will have to save up for their goals. Either way CCP makes money and we, the players, have the option of a respec if we want one....we'll just have to pay for it....in cold hard Aurum.
Only downside is for people who can't purchase Aurum. I think if CCP could come up with an ISK to AUR converter that would solve that but yer...idk.
Just a thought. |
Sam Tektzby
Better Hide R Die
191
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 15:59:00 -
[503] - Quote
Loki Noveau wrote:Personally, I'd like a refund come 1.8. If we don't get one, well, so be it. Just means I still have more SP to save up.
Another solution is to make an Aurum-based Respec. Charge like 25,000 AUR or whatever to have a characters SP reset. If people REALLY want that respect they will just have to pay for it otherwise they will have to save up for their goals. Either way CCP makes money and we, the players, have the option of a respec if we want one....we'll just have to pay for it....in cold hard Aurum.
Only downside is for people who can't purchase Aurum. I think if CCP could come up with an ISK to AUR converter that would solve that but yer...idk.
Just a thought.
No at all, i dindt made DECISSIONS what make game different. Thats RESON why im for FULL RESPEC for everyone from COMMUNITY who want RESPEC. Its easy, COMMUNITY ask for it and HONESTLY after whole that TRYING by CCP was mostly CONTRAPRODUCTIVE. Now they should faces THEIR faults and listen to US, the COMMUNITY of dust. They already lost my TRUST and i think iam NOT the only one, who FEELING it like this. WHY we should pay for CCPS decissions and faults. WORD NEVER works LIKE this. If i make mistake its my fault and NOBODY will pay for it, just ME and my DIGNITY.
Support - Tactician/Support
Deteis - Orator
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
11344
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 18:26:00 -
[504] - Quote
DUST 514 is real life, and in real life you cannot change what you know
No respecs ever because then DUST wouldn't be real life and I would be forced to cancel my EVE subscription and rain tears upon the internet over how CCP ruined my real life with their respec.
Videos / Fiction
Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
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Awry Barux
New Eden Blades Of The Azure
Zero-Day
1027
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Posted - 2014.02.22 18:49:00 -
[505] - Quote
Aikuchi Tomaru wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Just confirm the respec CCP.
You know there is an overwhelming case in favour, given that you are changing how pretty much every combination of suit, weapons, and upgrades works. Sometimes even the playstyle is changing fundamentally, as with the minlogi.
You can also see that there is a massive majority in favour, and that you'll lose a lot of players if you don't do it. After the vehicle-only respec and months of invincible tanks, no infantry respec really would the last straw for a lot of infantry. What they see is a loud minority. In a poll which was hold not too long ago barely anybody cared about respecs.
The entire forums is only a loud minority, as is the subset of people who would take the time to fill out a poll on Dust. The fact is, players from every segment of the game's population have come out to support respecs, and that is as close to a majority mandate as we can come.
As for the players who don't care enough to ever read the forums, I can't imagine any of them would be disappointed to log in after 1.8 to discover that the role overhaul and introduction of racial parity for suits came with a full infantry respec. |
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1705
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Posted - 2014.02.22 18:55:00 -
[506] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:DUST 514 is real life, and in real life you cannot change what you know
No respecs ever because then DUST wouldn't be real life and I would be forced to cancel my EVE subscription and rain tears upon the internet over how CCP ruined my real life with their respec.
Still here? I have been watching from the shadows. They are all the same arguments and reasons we have had since the game was released almost one year ago. Same, exact thing over and over and over and over... Nothing new or fun. Both sides have valid points and both sides have junk points. This thread quit making me laugh so I thought I would throw another nugget out there for my fans to read and rage about.
DUST is set in a persistent universe in which time (except TiDi) moves at this universe's time. Things in that universe, even in DUST, may not tangibly real but it is real and it is real life, my wife plays Roller Derby and her alter ego there is just as real as our alter egos are here. People know us by our opinions and our in game actions and when you boil it down to the the very basics the most important thing real people have is time. Our time in this game makes it real because that is all we really have as real people is time. Time spent in this game for some is the same amount as it would take to get an associate's degree. We shouldn't invalidate peoples time by saying it isn't real life because it is. You are right, you cannot change what you know but you can add to it and that is as real as it gets.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
1363
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Posted - 2014.02.22 19:04:00 -
[507] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:snip
I completely agree with you Robot, but the game was released too early and has too little content for this to be true IMO. If you didnt have any choices but one, how can you "live with your choices"?
Im gonna compare this whole debate with buying a high end cell phone, it might not be exactly what you want in 3 years time (you-Śre looking for that extremely cool new cell phone with all those cool features). The difference between this example and Dust 514 SP is that the developers of the cell phone did not go in and downgrade your screen from 5" to 2", 64x48 pixel resolution instead of 720p and at the same time switching out the Cortex based microcontroller with a ****** 8 bit PIC MCU.
You, who work with electronics, should understand this example clearly.
Myself, I have a MSc Eng in ICT with specialization towards digital signal processing. I work with underground navigation systems. 
Drop it like its hat.
CCP - Working hard on the (d)evolution of Dust 514 since 2013.
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
11350
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Posted - 2014.02.22 19:04:00 -
[508] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:DUST 514 is real life, and in real life you cannot change what you know
No respecs ever because then DUST wouldn't be real life and I would be forced to cancel my EVE subscription and rain tears upon the internet over how CCP ruined my real life with their respec. Still here? I have been watching from the shadows. They are all the same arguments and reasons we have had since the game was released almost one year ago. Same, exact thing over and over and over and over... Nothing new or fun. Both sides have valid points and both sides have junk points. This thread quit making me laugh so I thought I would throw another nugget out there for my fans to read and rage about. DUST is set in a persistent universe in which time (except TiDi) moves at this universe's time. Things in that universe, even in DUST, may not tangibly real but it is real and it is real life, my wife plays Roller Derby and her alter ego there is just as real as our alter egos are here. People know us by our opinions and our in game actions and when you boil it down to the the very basics the most important thing real people have is time. Our time in this game makes it real because that is all we really have as real people is time. Time spent in this game for some is the same amount as it would take to get an associate's degree. We shouldn't invalidate peoples time by saying it isn't real life because it is. You are right, you cannot change what you know but you can add to it and that is as real as it gets.
There are two kinds of people I suppose
Videos / Fiction
Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1705
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Posted - 2014.02.22 19:09:00 -
[509] - Quote
Awry Barux wrote:Aikuchi Tomaru wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Just confirm the respec CCP.
You know there is an overwhelming case in favour, given that you are changing how pretty much every combination of suit, weapons, and upgrades works. Sometimes even the playstyle is changing fundamentally, as with the minlogi.
You can also see that there is a massive majority in favour, and that you'll lose a lot of players if you don't do it. After the vehicle-only respec and months of invincible tanks, no infantry respec really would the last straw for a lot of infantry. What they see is a loud minority. In a poll which was hold not too long ago barely anybody cared about respecs. The entire forums is only a loud minority, as is the subset of people who would take the time to fill out a poll on Dust. The fact is, players from every segment of the game's population have come out to support respecs, and that is as close to a majority mandate as we can come. As for the players who don't care enough to ever read the forums, I can't imagine any of them would be disappointed to log in after 1.8 to discover that the role overhaul and introduction of racial parity for suits came with a full infantry respec.
Of course they do and it is because every other game does it in one shape or another. No other game I am aware of does their universe like New Eden and people can't handle it. They want what they want and they want to change it when they want and New Eden doesn't always work that way.
"The entire forums is only a loud minority, as is the subset of people who would take the time to fill out a poll on Dust. The fact is, players from every segment of the game's population have come out to support respecs, and that is as close to a majority mandate as we can come."
A loud minority shouldn't rule, ever. The owner, best qualified, duly elected or a representative of majority should dictate what should happen. Democracies fail like communism, it looks good on paper and it works for a while but once the entity hits a certain age or population it fail cascades back to its roots or dies all together. Letting the players totally dictate this game is the worst mistake CCP could make. 10 years of EVE didn't come from players dictating game development, it came from players interacting with the developers.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1705
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Posted - 2014.02.22 19:12:00 -
[510] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:DUST 514 is real life, and in real life you cannot change what you know
No respecs ever because then DUST wouldn't be real life and I would be forced to cancel my EVE subscription and rain tears upon the internet over how CCP ruined my real life with their respec. Still here? I have been watching from the shadows. They are all the same arguments and reasons we have had since the game was released almost one year ago. Same, exact thing over and over and over and over... Nothing new or fun. Both sides have valid points and both sides have junk points. This thread quit making me laugh so I thought I would throw another nugget out there for my fans to read and rage about. DUST is set in a persistent universe in which time (except TiDi) moves at this universe's time. Things in that universe, even in DUST, may not tangibly real but it is real and it is real life, my wife plays Roller Derby and her alter ego there is just as real as our alter egos are here. People know us by our opinions and our in game actions and when you boil it down to the the very basics the most important thing real people have is time. Our time in this game makes it real because that is all we really have as real people is time. Time spent in this game for some is the same amount as it would take to get an associate's degree. We shouldn't invalidate peoples time by saying it isn't real life because it is. You are right, you cannot change what you know but you can add to it and that is as real as it gets. There are two kinds of people I suppose
All I am saying is time spent makes it real. History isn't tangible either, we can't interact with it, change it or anything like that and we consider it real. Most of history isn't recorded in detail or on some piece of paper but that doesn't make it not real. Time is the only real thing we have because if you don't have time you are dead.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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