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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 10971	Posted - 2014.02.17 19:12:00 - [1] - Quote It's a video game, let people use their SP how they want in relation to all these new changes I for one will just collect passive for a good long while if they deny us a full infantry respec. Tons of nice games already out and soon to be out. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 10974	Posted - 2014.02.17 19:35:00 - [2] - Quote Piraten Hovnoret wrote: As stated in numerous threads Respec on the drop suit command YES Respec on the equipment YES Respec on weapons NO Oh and if tankers got respec wy should not infantry get it? You have to refund weapons because now suit bonuses will be tied to specific types of weapons, and any heavy who wishes to no longer be a heavy must have those weapons refunded. This game does not have a deep intricate metagame. What it does have is a small playerbase with very few loyal vets left, and plenty of new players who just set the game down thanks to the few vets left who crush them repeatedly thanks to flawed matchmaking which is made worse by said small playerbase. You can roleplay whatever you want, this is simple business here. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 10977	Posted - 2014.02.17 19:52:00 - [3] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Piraten Hovnoret wrote: As stated in numerous threads Respec on the drop suit command YES Respec on the equipment YES Respec on weapons NO Oh and if tankers got respec wy should not infantry get it? You have to refund weapons because now suit bonuses will be tied to specific types of weapons, and any heavy who wishes to no longer be a heavy must have those weapons refunded. This game does not have a deep intricate metagame. What it does have is a small playerbase with very few loyal vets left, and plenty of new players who just set the game down thanks to the few vets left who crush them repeatedly thanks to flawed matchmaking which is made worse by said small playerbase. You can roleplay whatever you want, this is simple business here. From a marketing perspective it's better to lose one bitter vet to draw 5 new players than it is to give one bitter vet a respec so he can abuse the newest fotm and chase away five new players. The vet has made his investment and its harder to keep him happy and retain him than it is to draw new players and get them excited about 400k more sp for an omega booster. That same vet is going to stomp the crap out of those same noobs no matter if he has to stick with his currently maxed out build or a new one. What that vet leaving DOES do is make one less person who could be around to help out those new players, showing them the ropes, giving them tips and a reason to aspire to max out their builds. It also doesn't help when former players begin to talk down about the game, giving even more bad reviews, and further pushing new players from even downloading the game in the first place. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 10978	Posted - 2014.02.17 20:04:00 - [4] - Quote ContraBanJoe wrote: NO MOAR FULL RESPECS It only serves to help the veterans. If something drastic changes to the skills and they are removed, or if vehicles/equipment/weapons/suits are removed, I would support respecs for specific skills, but NEVER again a full respec. ...................__ ............./-¦-»/'...'/-¦-»-»`-+-+ ........../'/.../..../......./-¿-»\ ........('(...-¦...-¦.... -»~/'...') .........\....FWALL...'../ ..........''...\.......... _.-+-¦ ............\..............( How does it help the vet who's already saved a ton of SP to skill instantly into the new FOTM, or anything for that matter? How does forcing newer players to keep incomplete builds that are now completely wrong help them? Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 10979	Posted - 2014.02.17 20:44:00 - [5] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Lynn Beck wrote: 'In Eve' it doesn't take an entire month to start to run 1 weapon type(shotguns, swarms, snipers) or to even get 1 dropsuit class (heavies) small tech 2 rails 6 days medium tech 2 rails 20 days large tech 2 rails 48 days 24 days to fly a tech 2 frig with no support skills, it only gets you in the hull. 2 days for Damage control II 8 hours for Small armor repairer II 2 days for the medium armor repairer II 6 days for a Large Jut to get into a tech 2 frig with only a T2 version of damage controls, railguns and armor repairs takes around 28 days. A weapon in dust can be skilled into in about 2 hours and an advanced within a day. I don't think you are 100% accurate. You don't have to fly everything at tech 2..... Quit weighting the argument. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 10986	Posted - 2014.02.17 22:31:00 - [6] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Um guys. I have this strange feeling that this thread is a trap and that CCP has a dreadnought in orbit ready to OB everyone in this thread. It better be filled with Respec ammo or the negative word of mouth Orbital Artillery just might deal a crippling blow Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 10990	Posted - 2014.02.17 23:44:00 - [7] - Quote Al the destroyer wrote: D legendary hero wrote: Al the destroyer wrote: Quick answer would i love to have a respec, yes. Do I think there should be a respec, no. CCP can't give in any time some sack starts to whine. A respec would give players like me too much of an advantage over the noobs. With the rampant proto stomping going on new players would be even more inclined to quit. You a- holes who insist on pub stomping aren't helping this game. You deserve to have your proficiency V rail rifle nerfed to death and live with the SP sinkhole it was lol! I have many weapons that I don't use anymore. One being the rail rifle! You want to show off your skill use a BPO suit and a BPO gun then go 50-0 I'll bow to you then. NO RESPEC FOR US over 10 mill sp. You want to help the new berrys under 10 mill sp gets a respec. To all you threatening to leave if you don't get a respec: YOU WONT STAY EVEN IF YOU GET ONE!! Change what you want CCP I'm staying!! its one thing to nerf a single weapon. or change a singe stat. Its another thing to change completely the way infantry operate and not give a dropsuit and weaponry respec. they did one for vehicles. they should do it for infantry too. You know most people will take their new found sp and spec into the newest FOTM. Sure it would be great but will that bring more PPL to this game? We would both live without a respec. Would the time be better spent developing new mode for new players. I finally got a buddy of mine ,COD player, to play dust. After one day of playing NS, FA pub stompers he won't be playing anymore. He buys every update for that POS game. It would be nice to have PPL like him playing dust. Giving the proto stompers a chance to change up bad sp investments is not the answer. News flash Proto stompers don't have bad investments, they have maxed out builds. Respecs do not, in any way, change this nature. What you're upset with is CCPs fault, not the players. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 10999	Posted - 2014.02.18 00:01:00 - [8] - Quote Al the destroyer wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Al the destroyer wrote: D legendary hero wrote: Al the destroyer wrote: Quick answer would i love to have a respec, yes. Do I think there should be a respec, no. CCP can't give in any time some sack starts to whine. A respec would give players like me too much of an advantage over the noobs. With the rampant proto stomping going on new players would be even more inclined to quit. You a- holes who insist on pub stomping aren't helping this game. You deserve to have your proficiency V rail rifle nerfed to death and live with the SP sinkhole it was lol! I have many weapons that I don't use anymore. One being the rail rifle! You want to show off your skill use a BPO suit and a BPO gun then go 50-0 I'll bow to you then. NO RESPEC FOR US over 10 mill sp. You want to help the new berrys under 10 mill sp gets a respec. To all you threatening to leave if you don't get a respec: YOU WONT STAY EVEN IF YOU GET ONE!! Change what you want CCP I'm staying!! its one thing to nerf a single weapon. or change a singe stat. Its another thing to change completely the way infantry operate and not give a dropsuit and weaponry respec. they did one for vehicles. they should do it for infantry too. You know most people will take their new found sp and spec into the newest FOTM. Sure it would be great but will that bring more PPL to this game? We would both live without a respec. Would the time be better spent developing new mode for new players. I finally got a buddy of mine ,COD player, to play dust. After one day of playing NS, FA pub stompers he won't be playing anymore. He buys every update for that POS game. It would be nice to have PPL like him playing dust. Giving the proto stompers a chance to change up bad sp investments is not the answer. News flash Proto stompers don't have bad investments, they have maxed out builds. Respecs do not, in any way, change this nature. What you're upset with is CCPs fault, not the players. news flash they won't need a respec then! Is DUST a video game, or real life? Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11004	Posted - 2014.02.18 00:53:00 - [9] - Quote Al the destroyer wrote: Does everyone understand how many man hours would be eaten up with a respec. It went by just fine with the vehicle respec People who say to save up for new (old) material are saying that it's perfectly ok to waste SP since you will no longer use it once you get what you actually wanted in the first place. This is silly, and is an emotional response on their part, feeling that denying players this choice somehow makes them holier than thou. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11004	Posted - 2014.02.18 01:03:00 - [10] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Al the destroyer wrote: Does everyone understand how many man hours would be eaten up with a respec. It went by just fine with the vehicle respec People who say to save up for new (old) material are saying that it's perfectly ok to waste SP since you will no longer use it once you get what you actually wanted in the first place. This is silly, and is an emotional response on their part, feeling that denying players this choice somehow makes them holier than thou. Why spec into something you didn't want to use in the first place? Gallente Heavy wasn't in the game, and scouts were getting nerfed by performance fixes for the longest time. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot

DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11004	Posted - 2014.02.18 01:05:00 - [11] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: D legendary hero wrote: Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: Respecs in Dust are not necessary. ...stuff so, why did vehicles need a respec? if you agreed with the vehicle respec then you automatically agreed for an infantry respec. if, you don't, then all the vehicles should have their SP returned to their prexisting categories, and anywhere a category was removed the SP that was their should just be "lost". They did need a respec because the skilltrees themselves were reworked. The amount of SP necessary to get certain skills. Old skills were removed (skills people had used SP on). New skills were added. This wasn't just "We add new stuff." This isn't the case with 1.8. The infantry skills just get an addition. Infantry isn't getting new stuff in 1.8, they're getting backlogged stuff. There is a huge difference between the two. And this of course ignores the sweeping changes to EVERY suit, and likely weapons, along with many equipments and possible even modules. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11004	Posted - 2014.02.18 01:06:00 - [12] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Al the destroyer wrote: Does everyone understand how many man hours would be eaten up with a respec. It went by just fine with the vehicle respec People who say to save up for new (old) material are saying that it's perfectly ok to waste SP since you will no longer use it once you get what you actually wanted in the first place. This is silly, and is an emotional response on their part, feeling that denying players this choice somehow makes them holier than thou. Why spec into something you didn't want to use in the first place? Gallente Heavy wasn't in the game, and scouts were getting nerfed by performance fixes for the longest time. So? You wanted Gallente Heavy. You wanted a scout suit. Why spec into assault then? Why spec into Amarr heavy? Why didn't you use your skillpoints on coreskills first? Why does that deny you speccing into Gallente heavy when he's available? Why didn't you spec into scout suits? because they were stomped? So what? It's more than obvious that the game will get even more balancing patches in the future. And this was also obvious before. You shouldn't spec into the FOTM, you should spec into what you want to play. You're talking out of your ass. So if someone wanted to play Heavy they should have just leveled core skills and used started suits for the past 2 years? Do you even read what you type? Telling the former Prometheus pilot not to choose FoTM. So ******* classic. You don't know what I've skilled into, so don't even act like you do. Believe it or not, FoTM is NOT an issue, at all. It's only a problem for bads who can't compete with good builds, period. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11012	Posted - 2014.02.18 01:09:00 - [13] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: D legendary hero wrote: Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: Respecs in Dust are not necessary. ...stuff so, why did vehicles need a respec? if you agreed with the vehicle respec then you automatically agreed for an infantry respec. if, you don't, then all the vehicles should have their SP returned to their prexisting categories, and anywhere a category was removed the SP that was their should just be "lost". They did need a respec because the skilltrees themselves were reworked. The amount of SP necessary to get certain skills. Old skills were removed (skills people had used SP on). New skills were added. This wasn't just "We add new stuff." This isn't the case with 1.8. The infantry skills just get an addition. Infantry isn't getting new stuff in 1.8, they're getting backlogged stuff. There is a huge difference between the two. And this of course ignores the sweeping changes to EVERY suit, and likely weapons, along with many equipments and possible even modules. No there's no difference. New items get added. THat's it. Backlog or not. Pilot suits are also backlogged stuff. And CCP probably has at least ideas for new suits. And that still doesn't change the way suits are played. Oh wait. It does: You can't use LOGISTICS as ASSAULTS that easily anymore. But if you specced into logistics because you wanted a slayer logi it was your fault to begin with. Assume That's all you seem to do Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11012	Posted - 2014.02.18 01:12:00 - [14] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: So if someone wanted to play Heavy they should have just leveled core skills and used started suits for the past 2 years? Do you even read what you type? Telling the former Prometheus pilot not to choose FoTM. So ******* classic. You don't know what I've skilled into, so don't even act like you do. Believe it or not, FoTM is NOT an issue, at all. It's only a problem for bads who can't compete with good builds, period. Yes I read what I type. And yes: They should have. Because obviously they didn't want to play Amarr heavy. And Std suits are actually pretty good with maxed out core skills. Because it's not necessary to exactly know what you specced into. You obviously specced into something you didn't want in the first place. Wow. I'm just gonna leave it at that. GG bro no re. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11012	Posted - 2014.02.18 01:18:00 - [15] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Nearly every player is in agreement that a respec should happen. What remains is CCP's feelings on the issue. And I doubt their feelings have changed. Understand... if we don't get a respec this forces a number of people who want the new stuff to buy boosters to get it faster. CCP wants that. Especially since every major release is aimed primarily at increasing booster sales. This being probably the most major release since uprising itself, to give a respec now would be absolutely unacceptable from their marketing standpoint. So basically, a thing needs to happen for the good of the game, and some of the devs probably agree, but it wont because marketing. Still a better love story than Twilight. Or it forces smart consumers to realize that the money they're spending is being spent on things that will very likely be entirely altered without their consent, and they will have no option but to stick with CCPs decision. It will more than likely reduce the sale of boosters because who spends money on something when they don't even know what they're getting? Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11014	Posted - 2014.02.18 01:21:00 - [16] - Quote Al the destroyer wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Al the destroyer wrote: Does everyone understand how many man hours would be eaten up with a respec. It went by just fine with the vehicle respec People who say to save up for new (old) material are saying that it's perfectly ok to waste SP since you will no longer use it once you get what you actually wanted in the first place. This is silly, and is an emotional response on their part, feeling that denying players this choice somehow makes them holier than thou. I'm not holier than thou. I'm not trying to keep your I'll placed sp from you. If they just respec drop suit command I will have a ton of sp to spend. I'm a logi the first logi suit I had was a callogi prenerf. I do not use that suit at all anymore as I do not slay. I stand to gain way more from a respec than you I've seen your DS vids. I only want what is best for this game. I'm curious what is it that you would spend your freed up sp on, and how often do you think you deserve a respec? Every time something is added, or changed? I think people who are against respecs are against competition. They don't want people to have good builds. Plenty of us have great builds already, almost all 25 million SP I have is put into specific builds, I simply do not enjoy heavies -at all- anymore, so about 11 million SP is basically wasted because I won't play a video game if I'm not having fun with it. I can see CCP wanting to keep to new eden mentality with SP or whatever, I've never argued for on demand or even frequent respecs. That said, I would be fine if everyone could respec at will before any match, because it does not affect anyone in any way other than hurting their imagination. It's a video game. Period. People need to chill out. I would spend my SP on finishing up my Incubus build, then either sitting on the rest for when Logistics ships get put back in, or I would go Gallente Shotgun Scout. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11014	Posted - 2014.02.18 01:24:00 - [17] - Quote Why on Earth would you want to have two different heavy suits, or scout suits? Who does that? What a waste of SP. I mean if that's what you really want to do then by all means, but don't force the rest of us to follow your failing. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11015	Posted - 2014.02.18 01:32:00 - [18] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I think people who are against respecs are against competition. They don't want people to have good builds. Plenty of us have great builds already, almost all 25 million SP I have is put into specific builds, I simply do not enjoy heavies -at all- anymore, so about 11 million SP is basically wasted because I won't play a video game if I'm not having fun with it. I can see CCP wanting to keep to new eden mentality with SP or whatever, I've never argued for on demand or even frequent respecs. That said, I would be fine if everyone could respec at will before any match, because it does not affect anyone in any way other than hurting their imagination. It's a video game. Period. People need to chill out. I would spend my SP on finishing up my Incubus build, then either sitting on the rest for when Logistics ships get put back in, or I would go Gallente Shotgun Scout. I am totally for competition and players being able to have fun but one thing that lures me to this game is that I know that you are going to be doing what you were yesterday. No re specs mean, to me, that the people I am fighting today will be the people I am fighting tomorrow. I know that you can't be a perfect HAV speced pilot today and just drop it all and go fatboy tomorrow. If you have the SP to do both then you deserve to do both but I know you just didn't put it where you want it just to play that one match. And I'm not suggesting that someone should be able to do that. I'm simply highlighting that it actually makes no difference once you're in game. The enemy is the enemy and it doesn't matter what they field, they're going down. The fear is an emotional response and nothing more. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11015	Posted - 2014.02.18 01:33:00 - [19] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Why on Earth would you want to have two different heavy suits, or scout suits? Who does that? What a waste of SP. I mean if that's what you really want to do then by all means, but don't force the rest of us to follow your failing. For spicing things up a little bit maybe? DIfferent bonuses, different slot layout. Different tank type. Having fun with creating fittings? You have a shield tank but you notice all enemies are using laser weaponry? Then just switch to your armor tank in the match. And like I said, if you think that's worth wasting the SP for, then by all means. But under no circumstances should we be forced to do that unless we so choose. Telling us to run MLT fits for a year just shows that you do not understand this game at all Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11018	Posted - 2014.02.18 01:39:00 - [20] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: Yes. We play for fun. So, if we play for fun, why spec into something which isn't fun for you? You spec into Amarr Heavy? Why? Because you want to play Heavy. Ok. So when that's the difference between Amarr Heavy and Gallente Heavy? If there's that big of a difference for you I have to assume you didn't like the Amarr Heavy. So then why did you spec into it? If you still had fun with the Amarr Heavy then why do you want to throw that skill away for another Heavy suit? Do you see the problem? I just can't believe there are players who actually think that not playing the game while they wait for core material to finally be released is somehow legit. I just. I can't even begin... Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot

DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11018	Posted - 2014.02.18 01:40:00 - [21] - Quote Al the destroyer wrote: I simply want you to earn it. Yup, my 25 million SP totally just appeared in my account over night. I never once earned any of that SP Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11018	Posted - 2014.02.18 01:44:00 - [22] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: And I asked first: What are you doing with your SP you're getting since the 1.8 suits were announced? Please tell me. I really want to know what keeps you from saving them up for the suit you REALLY want. What keeps me for saving for a new suit is the thought that I'll be forced to keep the suit that I don't want, but needed in order to fulfill my (at the time) desired role. There are only so many ways we can explain this to you, would you like us to type it in Chinese? Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11018	Posted - 2014.02.18 01:47:00 - [23] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: D legendary hero wrote: Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: if they changed the ingredients and its really bad then yes i will vomit that meal up. you can do that in any resturant, in the inner cities at least the more country you get.... thats besides the point. You can actually, order a different meal again if the one you originally wanted was not good. (you cant do that continuously or they will call the police). Same here. most of what people specced into changed fundamentally over the past 12 months. we have a right to a respect It's still a meal. And it's still what it was described as. Yes. Stuff changed. For example you probably can't use LOGISTICS dropsuits as ASSAULT dropsuits anymore. But if you did use your logistic as an assault dropsuit even though you had no intention to play as a Logi in the first place that's your own damn fault. And all the nerfing and buffing? Live with it. It won't happened the last time. Tanks are now OP. So hat? That will change again. The same like Logis, the Massdriver and Flaylocks changed. If you want perfect balancing you're obviously playing the wrong game. Because that won't happen with a game that changes as often as Dust. You do realize that's the only example you've offered, over and over and over, right? Ok, some people "abused" CCPs failed attempt at Logistics. That doesn't suddenly justify everything else. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11021	Posted - 2014.02.18 01:51:00 - [24] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: And I asked first: What are you doing with your SP you're getting since the 1.8 suits were announced? Please tell me. I really want to know what keeps you from saving them up for the suit you REALLY want. What keeps me for saving for a new suit is the thought that I'll be forced to keep the suit that I don't want, but needed in order to fulfill my (at the time) desired role. There are only so many ways we can explain this to you, would you like us to type it in Chinese? Wow. Now that's childish. So you just don't want to spend your SP because you would have a suit you don't want to use anymore? I really... I really don't know what to say about that. That also doesn't make any sense at all. The stuff you want is there. You can use it. Instead you cry for a respec. I... really.... the **** are you thinking? My face hurts from hitting it against this brick wall so much. I think my brain is bleeding. Let's just agree to disagree, I think that's the best we're going to come to here. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11021	Posted - 2014.02.18 01:57:00 - [25] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: [ I think you're brain started bleeding before that. You cry about 2 million SP you don't want to use anymore now that there are other suits. And you don't want to skill into the suit you want even though you have the SP. I mean seriously. And you ignore that these are NOT new suits. They are core suits that should have been in the game from the beginning. Period. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11029	Posted - 2014.02.18 02:22:00 - [26] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: [ I think you're brain started bleeding before that. You cry about 2 million SP you don't want to use anymore now that there are other suits. And you don't want to skill into the suit you want even though you have the SP. I mean seriously. And you ignore that these are NOT new suits. They are core suits that should have been in the game from the beginning. Period. You just think they should've been from the beginning. Yet it is very simple: Were they were when the game was release? No. They come out with a patch. They are new suits. Period. The announcement of something doesn't mean it should be in at the same time they were announced. That's just the reality. Dust 514 is a game that will change very often. And these suits are just new content like pirate faction suits would be. You can tell yourself it's new content all you like, but the simple fact of the matter is that CCP lacked the resources to follow their own universes lore and give us full racial representation at "release" Logical players see that. You don't because you just want to use it to support your "argument" Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11029	Posted - 2014.02.18 02:26:00 - [27] - Quote You're giving me diabetes Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11029	Posted - 2014.02.18 02:33:00 - [28] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: You're giving me diabetes Try this next time Cancer was implied, have you read his posts? Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11046	Posted - 2014.02.18 04:16:00 - [29] - Quote Brian LaFleur wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: It's a video game, let people use their SP how they want in relation to all these new changes I for one will just collect passive for a good long while if they deny us a full infantry respec. Tons of nice games already out and soon to be out. Planetside 2, Destiny, I'm already playing Blacklight: Retribution & Warframe. I've put a LOT of money into Dust, but if giving us a full respec is a problem, !@(& CCP. I have a ps4. I've only put in a little over $100, which is still a lot for a free game. If I had money that could be wasted I would have spent much more. I for one am looking at ESO right now since my brother said he'll buy me a years time. I have no problem setting this down for a good long while, though I would definitely suggest different games to people, and explain to them why paying for DUST is a trap by design. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11050	Posted - 2014.02.18 04:33:00 - [30] - Quote lee corwood wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Brian LaFleur wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: It's a video game, let people use their SP how they want in relation to all these new changes I for one will just collect passive for a good long while if they deny us a full infantry respec. Tons of nice games already out and soon to be out. Planetside 2, Destiny, I'm already playing Blacklight: Retribution & Warframe. I've put a LOT of money into Dust, but if giving us a full respec is a problem, !@(& CCP. I have a ps4. I've only put in a little over $100, which is still a lot for a free game. If I had money that could be wasted I would have spent much more. I for one am looking at ESO right now since my brother said he'll buy me a years time. I have no problem setting this down for a good long while, though I would definitely suggest different games to people, and explain to them why paying for DUST is a trap by design. If we get a respec, I'm setting this game down for a good long while. Since 1.7 dropped, I've just run silly suits and honestly hung in there for my corp. They are a great bunch of folks, but this topsy turvy game flip flopping changes every.single.fuking patch is getting too much to bear. I've been here about a year now...maybe longer, I honestly don't know how to tell, but since then all my local friends have left and I refuse to recruit a new player into this hot mess. Waiting for Destiny so hard. Well, congrats on being the first person I've seen who would stop playing with a Respec. It's good to be unique. I barely even play since 1.7, this game is just a total mess right now lol. Honestly I'm kind of with the anti respec crowd, I need the extra motivation to set this game down for a good long while. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot

DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11052	Posted - 2014.02.18 04:41:00 - [31] - Quote Rasatsu wrote: I also want to destroy DUST 514, so go ahead with the respec. Respecs don't destroy DUST Broken game modes and perma locked ISK fountains destroy DUST Get with the times bro Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11071	Posted - 2014.02.18 16:23:00 - [32] - Quote Sam Tektzby wrote: I must thx Dust fiend and D legendary for awesome job with one totaly (i dont know how interpret that persona) person who is actually stuborn and selfish how human beign just can be. That was oawesome job boyos (honestly after that time i will be maybe push to do something really bad XD I'm just gonna go ahead and take that as a compliment Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11084	Posted - 2014.02.18 17:36:00 - [33] - Quote al nize mk2 wrote: I've only just realised what a respec would actually mean - and I've got to tell you... I WANT IT!! You and the vast majority of this games very small player base Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11143	Posted - 2014.02.19 01:54:00 - [34] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: If I ran a business to business (b2b) company, and changed the software I released to a customer drastically, making their organizations planning go to hell, then I would be in no other position than to give that customer good will, or I would probably be fined and lose said customer. Refunding infantry SP is a matter of professionalism and good will to the customers. Imagine if all employees at customer of you business would have to write several page long threads to your company about the issue at hand, without any official response for several weeks. Could you Imagine how pissed off the management of the customer company would be? Maybe you cant understand the above, because you are 18 or younger and haven't had a real job yet. This is my only interpretation of the anti respec HTFU crowd.. Get a fking job Extremely well put, kind of my same thought too. It's not about who does or does not deserve it, it's about goodwill and professionalism. +1 Yeah because my degree in electronics isn't enough, I have had two or three jobs my entire life, I have two jobs right now. Some of you people are so well informed I am amazed that you even play a game like this. Thanks for coming off your high horse long enough to talk to the common folk. No. I paid for a service that was changed from the results I paid for. The proper thing to do is either refund the actual money or refund the service to be used for the RESULTS it was purchased for. Thats why its either refund the money or refund the SP. And since the money has been SPENT by CCP. That leaves: REFUND THE SP. No one said the service was forever and ever. You received your service for the money you spent. The phone company changed from unlimited data to anything over 4GB is slowed down. I didn't want that service, ask for that service or even like what it has to offer but I have to take it. It is called life. Also, I am pretty sure somewhere in the agreement you agreed to there is a sentence that states that CCP has the right to change anything they want at anytime they want without notice. That sentence makes any and all monetary validated repecs null and void. You agreed and therefore they have your money and can do what they want. There is no legal issue here, it is all up to CCP. And we have the right to leave the game, write negative reviews, spread bad press and general warn people away from spending their money on a sinking ship. A few people doing that doesn't hurt the game that much. Create a culture where your players at BEST don't talk about your game, and you'll go the way of the MAG, with less of an impact. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11148	Posted - 2014.02.19 04:33:00 - [35] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Awry Barux wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Awry Barux wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: This is one of the few instances where the FOTM argument doesn't apply (I am big time proponent of that argument, btw... Those flaylock wielding cal logis can suck it...). Racial parity is the only legitimate reason for one. Dropsuit skills should be refunded, no question. Core upgrades, a decent argument could be made either way. IMO core skills are never really wasted, but whatever. Weapons.... Hmm.. I'm not sure about weapons. I'm inclined to say no because it should wait until more racial weapons come out. Mostly I think that once the remaining heavy weapons come out, that's the right time. Each race has a pretty decent selection of light weapons right now and tbh they are not nearly the SP sink that dropsuit or core skills are. Core skills can totally be wasted. Armor modules on my cal scout? No thanks. Proto nanohives for my sentinel? Also no. Shield modules for my Gal heavy? Again, wasted. Huh? So if you run cal scouts and gal heavies you need both shields and and armor. (I know what you really mean) More seriously, are you really not going to use any armor modules at all on Caldari suits? Ever? Not even if they fix reactives/ferroscales? Yeah, sure, eventually- but if the point is that we're re-doing our SP choices due to drastic changes in suit functionality, upgrades need to be re-chosen too. I can change my suit to a Cal suit, but if I'm a month away from having proto shield extenders (because what armor tanker would even touch that tree?), that's a brutal wait. The whole issue could be avoided by just giving a core upgrade respec. Also, my point about equipment stands. I am a armor man but I still skilled all shields to five. I don't consider it a waste at all. I don't use them often but when I do it is nice to have. And that's your choice. There's absolutely no reason to force someone to make that choice, when we could simply refund infantry skills and be done with it. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11178	Posted - 2014.02.19 15:18:00 - [36] - Quote This game is so far from complete. Until we have a stable foundation, arguments against respecs are emotional and nothing more. They do NO damage to ANYTHING but your own roleplaying and imagination. Period. What the other guy runs is HIS / HER business, not mine, and even if it changed drastically every 5 minutes, it NEVER effects me unless I allow it to. Basically: get over yourselves, and play the game. And before anyone regurgitates any FoTM crap, news flash: SP rich players are sitting on millions of unallocated SP so that THEY benefit from no respec. So, before you spout off that it hurts newer players, it does exactly the opposite, and if you can't see that then you clearly haven't played enough DUST Accurate depiction of anti respec people Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11212	Posted - 2014.02.20 02:20:00 - [37] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: My .02 ISK: Only dropsuit fitting skills (dropsuit command and the skills branching from it) need to be refunded, because their entire functions are changing. Weapons, even with nerfs and buffs, still function the same way as they did before, so they should NOT be refunded. Actually, weapon functionality DOES change because of how suits are now getting bonuses to specific weapon types. So, while your gun itself may not have changed, your entire reason for picking that gun has. At least, if you base your builds off of math and synergy, that is. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11213	Posted - 2014.02.20 04:26:00 - [38] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Awry Barux wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: My .02 ISK: Only dropsuit fitting skills (dropsuit command and the skills branching from it) need to be refunded, because their entire functions are changing. Weapons, even with nerfs and buffs, still function the same way as they did before, so they should NOT be refunded. It's not a matter of nerfs and buffs, it's a matter of achieving weapon-suit synergy. You have your weapon of choice and the play style that goes with it. Now you can choose your dropsuit based off of that. Nobody picks a dropsuit first before trying to base a play-style off of it, besides people experimenting with underpowered suits. So why do lights and mediums get allowed to switch around their suits, but heavies are forced to stay as heavies? Light and medium frames who go to heavies can still use their light weapons. Heavy frames who go to light or medium frames are forced to sit on wasted SP. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11249	Posted - 2014.02.20 19:17:00 - [39] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Wouldn't it be funny if 1.8 was all back end changes and they didn't release any suits till 5/14. I would fall over dead laughing. ESO will have been out for over a month at that point, so I wouldn't notice as I wouldn't have logged in for a bit over a month at that point. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11318	Posted - 2014.02.21 21:21:00 - [40] - Quote Inb4devresponse Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot

DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11344	Posted - 2014.02.22 18:26:00 - [41] - Quote DUST 514 is real life, and in real life you cannot change what you know No respecs ever because then DUST wouldn't be real life and I would be forced to cancel my EVE subscription and rain tears upon the internet over how CCP ruined my real life with their respec. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11350	Posted - 2014.02.22 19:04:00 - [42] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: DUST 514 is real life, and in real life you cannot change what you know No respecs ever because then DUST wouldn't be real life and I would be forced to cancel my EVE subscription and rain tears upon the internet over how CCP ruined my real life with their respec. Still here? I have been watching from the shadows. They are all the same arguments and reasons we have had since the game was released almost one year ago. Same, exact thing over and over and over and over... Nothing new or fun. Both sides have valid points and both sides have junk points. This thread quit making me laugh so I thought I would throw another nugget out there for my fans to read and rage about. DUST is set in a persistent universe in which time (except TiDi) moves at this universe's time. Things in that universe, even in DUST, may not tangibly real but it is real and it is real life, my wife plays Roller Derby and her alter ego there is just as real as our alter egos are here. People know us by our opinions and our in game actions and when you boil it down to the the very basics the most important thing real people have is time. Our time in this game makes it real because that is all we really have as real people is time. Time spent in this game for some is the same amount as it would take to get an associate's degree. We shouldn't invalidate peoples time by saying it isn't real life because it is. You are right, you cannot change what you know but you can add to it and that is as real as it gets. There are two kinds of people I suppose Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11367	Posted - 2014.02.22 21:11:00 - [43] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: All I am saying is time spent makes it real. History isn't tangible either, we can't interact with it, change it or anything like that and we consider it real. Most of history isn't recorded in detail or on some piece of paper but that doesn't make it not real. Time is the only real thing we have because if you don't have time you are dead. I don't know how that's relevant to anything in a video game. The only thing that matters is how much SP you have, because that's what you've worked for. If CCP wants to stop respec culture, then they need to stop shuffling around everyone's roles. It's one thing to nerf / buff things by a few % here and there. It's another thing entirely to continually show your player base that you don't even have a stable foundation to build upon. Show us that you're committed to making a persistent universe, and then we can talk about persistent decisions. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11393	Posted - 2014.02.23 01:44:00 - [44] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: All I am saying is time spent makes it real. History isn't tangible either, we can't interact with it, change it or anything like that and we consider it real. Most of history isn't recorded in detail or on some piece of paper but that doesn't make it not real. Time is the only real thing we have because if you don't have time you are dead. I don't know how that's relevant to anything in a video game. The only thing that matters is how much SP you have, because that's what you've worked for. If CCP wants to stop respec culture, then they need to stop shuffling around everyone's roles. It's one thing to nerf / buff things by a few % here and there. It's another thing entirely to continually show your player base that you don't even have a stable foundation to build upon. Show us that you're committed to making a persistent universe, and then we can talk about persistent decisions. I 100% totally agree. Changing everything at once does make a repec almost mandatory. It all goes back to content. The suits weren't there and players weren't given an opportunity to choose what they wanted or liked. The worst part about a refund would be that about 4-6 weeks after deployment all the suits will probably change in some way and we are going to be back here. Been reading this topic for over a year now and it is the same thing over and over. People can complain all they want Strictly % adjustments have never been a reason for a respec, and only bads argue that it is. That's not what this potential 1.8 respec is about, but I think this thread has beaten that horse to death already. People can stamp their feet all they want for a respec, if CCP has built a foundation that is primarily stable, they can suck it. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11398	Posted - 2014.02.23 02:44:00 - [45] - Quote Most players with over 10 million SP don't really have too much "wasted" SP. Most vets know where to put their sp and specifically planned out builds to avoid any needless waste. It's the newer players who tend to waste that SP. Giving them the chance to fix their mistakes, nevermind the chance to make informed decisions with the new foundation in place, can only serve to help them. A vet switching from one maxed out 20 million SP build to another has virtually no effect on anything but that players own enjoyment. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11416	Posted - 2014.02.23 06:28:00 - [46] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: What i'm arguing against is the notion that respecs are a worthwhile feature in and on themselves. See, I am and I'm not torn at the same time. First and foremost, I accept that CCP wants to have a persistent universe where your decisions matter. I can respect that, so long as they can respect it as well by only doing light balance passes instead of these drastic shake ups that we keep getting. From that perspective, I have not and do not argue even for annual respecs. However, speaking strictly from a gameplay perspective, I literally can see absolutely no harm in allowing respecs at will. It literally has no effect on anyone but the person who is shuffling around their SP. All it lets them do is enjoy the game how they want to, plain and simple. So, while I would never propose or ask for anything even close to that, I also don't see how it causes any damage in game. It would definitely damage AUR sales, so for that reason alone it would never happen, but just speaking objectively, respecs really only hurt peoples roleplaying. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11500	Posted - 2014.02.24 15:15:00 - [47] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Agreed, this thread is for stubborn know it alls and whiners. It is only here to vent and stop RESPEC threads. It is a good place to keep all this garbage. This thread isnt for you, though I am sorry youre the clear minority in the discussion Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11602	Posted - 2014.02.26 17:06:00 - [48] - Quote Zaaeed Massani wrote: GhostSoldierX wrote: 1. Give me a respec (So I wont have to suffer the disgrace of miltia milk drinkers) 2. Get rid of militia vehicles 3. Raise the prise of tanks to deter anyone from half a**ing tanking P.s. all militia gear should just be removed they kind of devoid standard gear and if someone wants to try out something then i guess they'll have to buy the aurum version. Its a win/win 1. Vehicles already got a respec, they don't deserve another one for 1.8. Perhaps the next update, but not 1.8. 2. This is a terrible idea. Get over yourself. You're not that special. 3. Fine. Not that it will fix anything. People in this game are rolling in dough. P.S. removing all militia gear is also a terrible idea. Otherwise if someone wants to try something new, they have to spend SP to get into it. And let's not forget, then players new to the game would be forced to skill into weapons before even fighting, since there are no more militia items for them to use. Anyway, any variants other than the basic items aren't available as militia gear. Ex: if you want the breach AR or submachine gun, you have to skill into it. The militia system is fine as is. Actually, removing MLT gear is EXACTLY what DUST needs, period. What we also need is a training room, where you can equip and operate all standard gear in the game without putting SP into it. BAM, the only excuse for this MLT garbage goes out the window, and we can finally start pushing towards a state of balance. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11607	Posted - 2014.02.26 18:29:00 - [49] - Quote Zaaeed Massani wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Zaaeed Massani wrote: GhostSoldierX wrote: 1. Give me a respec (So I wont have to suffer the disgrace of miltia milk drinkers) 2. Get rid of militia vehicles 3. Raise the prise of tanks to deter anyone from half a**ing tanking P.s. all militia gear should just be removed they kind of devoid standard gear and if someone wants to try out something then i guess they'll have to buy the aurum version. Its a win/win 1. Vehicles already got a respec, they don't deserve another one for 1.8. Perhaps the next update, but not 1.8. 2. This is a terrible idea. Get over yourself. You're not that special. 3. Fine. Not that it will fix anything. People in this game are rolling in dough. P.S. removing all militia gear is also a terrible idea. Otherwise if someone wants to try something new, they have to spend SP to get into it. And let's not forget, then players new to the game would be forced to skill into weapons before even fighting, since there are no more militia items for them to use. Anyway, any variants other than the basic items aren't available as militia gear. Ex: if you want the breach AR or submachine gun, you have to skill into it. The militia system is fine as is. Actually, removing MLT gear is EXACTLY what DUST needs, period. What we also need is a training room, where you can equip and operate all standard gear in the game without putting SP into it. BAM, the only excuse for this MLT garbage goes out the window, and we can finally start pushing towards a state of balance. I find that perfectly acceptable. Perhaps make the "training room" a linear combat situation that puts you in various situations that let you practice using the weapon. Because virtual shooting ranges in video games are silly IMHO. Make it so, CCP. Honestly this game is being held back a LOT by not having PvE content. PvE content would allow for awesome tutorials, the above training room, and it would just make the game feel big. It's just kind of sad how little we've actually moved in the past 2 years. I'm not trying to say there haven't been improvements or even forward momentum, but when you break it down to what you actually do game in and game out, very little has changed in the past 2 years, aside from losing cool game modes. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11633	Posted - 2014.02.27 07:01:00 - [50] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: Patrick57 wrote: Tallen Ellecon wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: Just here to say as a humble member of the community I am against respecs, but FOR a respec in 1.8 and anytime our invested choices are dramatically altered. I used to have that stance, but that would mean a respec every 6 months to year, and it's not really anti respec anymore. No exception unless they alter the tree itself. We all take the same risk. Every suit bonus in Dust is being changed.... Point being? No one of them changed the respective suit's function on a fundamental level. They still fill the same basic role with a little more racial definition. Edit: In case you mean that "changes to the tree itself" part. I'm pretty sure Tallen's talking about changed multipliers and topological changes to the tree. I can't even be bothered to dig out the plethora of examples that show how suits are, in fact, having their fundamental roles shifted around. If you're a casual you won't notice too much, but if you're a skilled player who painstakingly plans out their builds based on stats and synergy, you will in fact, in many instance, find that your build has been shuffled around, trivialized, or straight up removed. Again, for casuals, this doesn't matter much. For those of us who take pride in making tight builds based on what is actually in the game, then this is a very serious issue. Your roleplaying comes second to our statistical, in game assets. Crimson ShieId wrote: That actually brings up a good point... why the heck doesn't Dust have a test server where you can use all the gear with maxed out skills to see what you like? Eve does, so why not Dust? Liability. Sony doesn't want to be responsible for melted PS3s And also, not directed at Crimson, just this thread Obligatory Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot

DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11683	Posted - 2014.02.27 16:30:00 - [51] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Things change so I must be refunded, the fact I've used it for 3 months be damned. I can do math therefore I'm right. Condensed that for you. How does this address things being added that are backlogged, and the roles behind current in game assets being changed? I know rational thought may be difficult for you, but by all means, take all the time you need. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11783	Posted - 2014.02.28 15:43:00 - [52] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: CCP 33 pages of support. with only 4 people against a respec. DUST fiend even made a video for god's sake. just confirm it. we all know you want to. /thread Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11790	Posted - 2014.02.28 16:17:00 - [53] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: D legendary hero wrote: CCP 33 pages of support. with only 4 people against a respec. DUST fiend even made a video for god's sake. just confirm it. we all know you want to. /thread Noooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Where else will I get my daily dose of HTFU if you end the thread. Should be DUST Bastard. Shhhh, don't fight it. It will all be over soon Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11796	Posted - 2014.02.28 16:51:00 - [54] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Tallen Ellecon wrote: Instead of demanding respecs demand balance on all fronts first, because unless there is balance a respec is a very short term fix.......... to a problem that will remain in this game for the foreseeable future. ^This The huge pendulum swing of mechanics in Dust needs to stop. We need consistent graduated tweaks and polish not massive overhauls that untimely introduce new problems in the place of the old. Everyone remember when the TAR could be used for AV? Now even Proto AV struggles to be used for AV against Militia HAVs and an OB won't even scratch the paint when their hardeners are active. There are a host of examples like the one above and that's the heart of the problem. A respec won't solve the problem and offering them consistently (even 1-2 times a year) will have many negative impacts on the game, a big one being making it vastly more grind-fest/repetitive as 'everyone' migrates into a single role/fit following the trend of excessive re-balances. The lack of diversity will hurt the game, the massive swings in who's spec'ed into what will cripple the implementation of a true player economy, and the NPE will be essentially shot in the face as new players will lack the game knowledge to Proto the current FotM OP build... and even if they have a friend who can show it too them they won't have the SP so they'll still have to spend months with minimal fighting chance before they get to actually try and play the game. Respecs are not a solution to a problem, they are a symptom of a much lager problem, and that's what needs to be addressed. 0.02 ISK Cross And that's all well and good, I want the game to achieve a state of balance too, I think we all do. No one likes these constant back and forths. However. Until CCP can show us that they are dedicated to providing a persistent experience, respecs are necessary and do no damage to the game. Your choices have no meaning when they are altered for you on the most fundamental level. Until CCP can commit to their own rhetoric, they need to put customer satisfaction before roleplaying appeal. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11820	Posted - 2014.02.28 18:56:00 - [55] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Tallen Ellecon wrote: Instead of demanding respecs demand balance on all fronts first, because unless there is balance a respec is a very short term fix.......... to a problem that will remain in this game for the foreseeable future. ^This The huge pendulum swing of mechanics in Dust needs to stop. We need consistent graduated tweaks and polish not massive overhauls that untimely introduce new problems in the place of the old. Everyone remember when the TAR could be used for AV? Now even Proto AV struggles to be used for AV against Militia HAVs and an OB won't even scratch the paint when their hardeners are active. There are a host of examples like the one above and that's the heart of the problem. A respec won't solve the problem and offering them consistently (even 1-2 times a year) will have many negative impacts on the game, a big one being making it vastly more grind-fest/repetitive as 'everyone' migrates into a single role/fit following the trend of excessive re-balances. The lack of diversity will hurt the game, the massive swings in who's spec'ed into what will cripple the implementation of a true player economy, and the NPE will be essentially shot in the face as new players will lack the game knowledge to Proto the current FotM OP build... and even if they have a friend who can show it too them they won't have the SP so they'll still have to spend months with minimal fighting chance before they get to actually try and play the game. Respecs are not a solution to a problem, they are a symptom of a much lager problem, and that's what needs to be addressed. 0.02 ISK Cross And that's all well and good, I want the game to achieve a state of balance too, I think we all do. No one likes these constant back and forths. However. Until CCP can show us that they are dedicated to providing a persistent experience, respecs are necessary and do no damage to the game. Your choices have no meaning when they are altered for you on the most fundamental level. Until CCP can commit to their own rhetoric, they need to put customer satisfaction before roleplaying appeal. I don't disagree with the fundamentals of what you're saying here, however it's also "chicken and the egg" because offering consistent respecs is just a band aid obscuring, and feeding into, the larger problem(s) which create this situation. I play support, which means that if the preliminary numbers/changes hold I'm getting double (or triple, depending on how you look at it) nerfed when 1.8 comes out. As a support player I have over 20 million SP into dropsuit upgrades for my equipment fittings etc, 20 mill and I don't even have any points into damage mods yet, and now some of my support fittings are going to be crippled by the changes to the point where I'll need another frame, or proto in each race (or both) just to provide the same supporting roles I do currently and I won't be able to do it as well even then. Meaning it'll take me months of grinding SP just to be able to almost provide the same support on the field that I do now... and even then it's going to come at a higher average per match cost. So am I happy with the upcoming prospect, am I content with how things stand, was I able to make a meaningfully informed decision regarding the investment of my SP? No to all of the above. That being said a respec still has negative impacts on the game, it homogenizes the meta for one thing and that reduction in diversity is also a reduction in fun factor on several fronts. We don't need less content in Dust (and effectively it is less content if fewer types of suit and build are being deployed). What we do need is a better balance method from CCP, more Dev Blogs providing solid information, more transparency, and a stronger focus on the NPE (PvE wouldn't hurt either, but that's another matter). You're right, we're not able to make informed meaningful choices right now, not as much as we should be, and that is what needs to change. Until it does, respecs or no, the frustrations et al will remain. 0.02 ISK Cross FoTM is going to happen right out of the bat with our without respecs. Many vets are just camping on SP, not because it's "smart", but because they anticipate CCP not having the guts to just give people the option to approach their new design philosophy how they would like to. Vets can afford to camp ont 5+ million SP, already have cores maxed, and a number of fits already at proto. They will do good regardless. I guess it's just a matter of preference. If I had a build like yours that was being nerfed to hell by CCP just because they had no clue what they wanted to do in the first place, I would just set the game down. I may even go on to warn people away from it. I'd probably keep my character just in case CCP ever pulled their head out of their asses later on down the road, but under no circumstances would I continue to provide my business or good word of mouth. The fear of FoTM is a fear of CCPs inability to balance their game. It's going to happen within the first few weeks, with or without a respec. This is all but guaranteed. The respec doesn't cause this issue, CCP does with their lack of foresight and inability to create properly balanced patches. Respec pleases and brings back faaaaaaaaaaaaar more players than it displeases and pushes away. Simply put, it's the better business decision. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11833	Posted - 2014.02.28 19:15:00 - [56] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: A respec gives a signifigant gain to vets over new players. If a new player poorly spends more than 1 mil SP... I honestly have little sympathy, it's how we learn make better choices. Did CCP do a **** poor job of preparing them? Hell yeah, and they should be held accountable, but a respec is a temporary fix, give it a month and people will demand another and another. Taking a slow build up approach over straight into proto gives everyone the opportunity to see if they really like what they're skilling into. If CCP gives a respec now, assuming there are no skill tree changes, these respec requests will never end and people will come expect them. Bonuses will continue to change, new content will be added and rebalancing will continuoly be done. If someone knows they can't ever spec out of something, they'll spend less time bitching about how useless it is and spend more time giving constructive feedback to balance it out. Yet if you go around drastically changing what people have already skilled into, what incentive is there to continue? Why should I pour many hours and even $$ into a game where my choices are inevitably going to be totally shaken up on me? If CCP could commit to a stable foundation, provide a baseline that only deviates through slight % tweaks here and there, legitimate respec requests would die out. I see the 7-15 million SP players benefiting the most. Most 20+ million SP players already have maxed builds and don't have much wasted SP to begin with. They only benefit by being able to play what they want, aka, enjoying the video game the way that they want to. If CCP would just do slight balance passes, none of this would be an issue. But, they aren't. They're going on 2 years now of not knowing what they want from their game. They are only JUST NOW beginning to give us actual racial parity. If this game finally comes out of beta, then we can talk about persistent decisions. Until then, this constant game of musical stats just serves to turn people away from the game, and away from supporting it with their money. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11833	Posted - 2014.02.28 19:26:00 - [57] - Quote What it boils down to is this: If CCP feels it's alright to withhold basic content, as well as randomly switch around the roles and usefulness of things we've long since spec'd into, then it only seems reasonable to allow players to use their accumulated SP how they want when the backlogged content is released, and major changes are made. For me, it's a business decision. Do I want to support a company that takes my money, then alters the product I pay for? Or do I stay with a company that takes my money, and honors that investment when they alter what I purchased? Worst case, no respec and I take a few months away from DUST. It doesn't bother me, I barely even play anymore as is. For me, this entire thing is about principle and little more. For now, I'm done with this "topic" Lord Neckbeard awaits. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11854	Posted - 2014.03.01 00:01:00 - [58] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: If it's too much for you leave. DUST has basically nothing but bad reviews for a reason. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11864	Posted - 2014.03.01 02:31:00 - [59] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: They told us more than 2 months before 1.8 what the changes would be. Since then there has been more than enough time AND an SP event to get the SP you'd need for a new suit and then some. This has nothing to do with getting new suits or weapons, and everything to do with allowing people to spend their earned SP in an environment that reflects the changes that they had NO say over. It's about making SP valuable, instead of some laughable metric that has no relation to your decisions. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11867	Posted - 2014.03.01 02:49:00 - [60] - Quote Honestly, more than anything, I think no respec would prove how pointless the CPM is. They are almost unanimous on an SP refund, and this thread is more than proof enough that the majority of players would prefer this option. If CCP decides to ignore all that, then it's pretty clear that they have no desire to listen to us. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot

DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11874	Posted - 2014.03.01 04:02:00 - [61] - Quote I can feel that I have too much emotion over this subject, as it has been discussed quite often since beta. I apologize to CCP and any players (Alldin, THE Robot Devil, Aikuchi, Blueberries) who I may have offended with my fairly accurate and scientifically produced retort. I will now erase this thread from my memory, and leave you all to it. I can see that I will no longer be available for rational and useful discussion, and do not want to dilute what currently exists. Thank you, and good day. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11904	Posted - 2014.03.03 15:07:00 - [62] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Dj grammer wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: Vakki Yuki wrote: Brian LaFleur wrote: CCP, please explain the decision making process the Dev team goes through. We've been waiting on some word but we don't get any. This is why there are multiple threads on the subject because it seems to be the only way to get a response from you. Maybe a reddit thread? Or 4chan /b/? Just a theory, but it's possible that the respec has been confirmed on the inside, but devs are not allowed to comment yet for fear that people might go bonkers with their skills and suits more than they already are. Either way, I think I speak for us all when I say please tell us something. Anything. Tell us it's still unconfirmed. At least we'll know. Consider it a show of good faith. Tell us the cow jumped over the moon, at least we'll know we're not being blatantly ignored. Don't let the bunnies out of the bag because we multiply fast. Let them work, it will be ok. Here take a cookie. I promise, by the time you're done eating it you'll feel right as rain. Can I have a Snickers instead? Matrix reference but sure as long as you eat it with a knife and fork. I'd prefer to use a spoon Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11924	Posted - 2014.03.04 14:29:00 - [63] - Quote Rasatsu wrote: Looking forward to the first big threadnaught when respecs don't happen, Most people who care enough about getting the respec would just quietly leave if denied one, so it may be a 3 page thread of 7 anti respec guys going back and forth before its locked and linked back to this thread Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 11950	Posted - 2014.03.04 18:18:00 - [64] - Quote low genius wrote: D legendary hero wrote: 750+ comments, 13,600+ views and 1,400+ likes. com'on ccp. you lost. the respect must happen. the people demand it the few demand it. DUST does have a very tiny player base, of which a majority seem to support or at least not oppose a respec... which would indeed mean that a few demand it....your point is....? Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12025	Posted - 2014.03.05 18:12:00 - [65] - Quote I am going to laugh my way to the bank if there's no respec HMG Sentinel is the new Flavor of the Game lmfao. Forge gun is already the only AV worth wielding, and with the damage mod and grenade nerfs, it will be the only option aside from Jihad LAV or a rail tank against any remotely competent tank driver. HAHAHAHHA, classic, classic DUST, 100% Good show, good show indeed ::hugs his crystal ball:: Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12035	Posted - 2014.03.05 19:58:00 - [66] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I am going to laugh my way to the bank if there's no respec HMG Sentinel is the new Flavor of the Game lmfao. Forge gun is already the only AV worth wielding, and with the damage mod and grenade nerfs, it will be the only option aside from Jihad LAV or a rail tank against any remotely competent tank driver. HAHAHAHHA, classic, classic DUST, 100% Good show, good show indeed ::hugs his crystal ball:: At least the gal scout will be great to brick tank, better at assaulting than logis and assault. I don't plan on fitting any tank at all, assuming the respec. Stealth speed and passive scanning for me. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12046	Posted - 2014.03.05 23:06:00 - [67] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Just because you think they are core doesn't mean they are. All the ships in EVE weren't there from the beginning. Feeling that the core isn't here doesn't justify anything. DUST left the BETA when they released it a year ago. Gallente / Caldari / Amarr / Minmatar Light frames / Medium Frames / Heavy Frames (with basic variants of each) These are core content. You're welcome to try to use roleplaying as a shield against this fact, but it's a fact regardless. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12048	Posted - 2014.03.05 23:29:00 - [68] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: Just because you think they are core doesn't mean they are. All the ships in EVE weren't there from the beginning. Feeling that the core isn't here doesn't justify anything. DUST left the BETA when they released it a year ago. Gallente / Caldari / Amarr / Minmatar Light frames / Medium Frames / Heavy Frames (with basic variants of each) These are core content. You're welcome to try to use roleplaying as a shield against this fact, but it's a fact regardless. In your eyes but in CCP's eyes they were not core if they weren't released with the core. I can call cloaks core but that doesn't' mean they are. Don't get me wrong, I agree that they are core suits and weapons and should have been in the game but I disagree with that being a justification for refunds because any newly released item can be called a core item by us. There iare command nodes on the icon screen but not in the game, is that core? There are heavy and medium aircraft on the same screen but that does that meant hey are core? Pilot suit? Medium vehicles? My only point is that the "missing core" argument is a slippery slope. Nothing more than that. You're welcome to make that argument, just like we're welcome to make the argument that CCP screwed the pooch by having to scrap their whole initial engine, and we had to deal with their **** up by not having proper racial parity upon release. If CCP didn't want this game to follow in EVEs footsteps, they should not have put it in the same universe while simultaneously touting that "connection" as a primary draw for the game. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12061	Posted - 2014.03.06 03:27:00 - [69] - Quote DoomLead wrote: Can you plz only give out a partial respec for scouts and heavies with the release of 1.8. just give us back the sp for suits or transfer all our sp to the suit of the race that we choose (using myself as an example) meaning you can put my lvl 5 heavy, lvl 5 commando and lvl 4 sentinel straight to the race of my choosing and make my sp exactly the same for this race as it was in my previous race. I honestly think it is fair since you did the same thing with the vehicle users That makes no sense simply because most people armor tank their Amarr Sentinels (because they're armor tanks), yet if they wanted to go into Caldari or Minmatar Sentinel, they would be more shield focused. Hence, at absolute minimum, you would need to refund Dropsuit Command and Upgrades. Weaponry should be refunded because of how the roles of every weapon has changed thanks to new damage and resistance profiles among other changes. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12066	Posted - 2014.03.06 06:37:00 - [70] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: When the game first came out everyone wasn't given a large pool of SP to instantly spec into whatever they wanted. Now that new suits are here why should they do that now. I've said it before and I'll say it again, respecs don't create balance, and they don't help anyone who starts playing after they are given. Nobody NEEDS a respec, they just really WANT one. I only see old suits. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot

DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12093	Posted - 2014.03.10 21:24:00 - [71] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: Grind is how this F2P game makes money and a respec will eliminate that grind. Insulting your customers and forcing them to deal with your backlogged mistakes is an excellent way to eliminate grind. Uninstalls do that. Not saying I would uninstall, though I will certainly be taking a break if they stonewall us on this issue. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12105	Posted - 2014.03.11 12:41:00 - [72] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: Sam Tektzby wrote: I still dont know what is bad on respec, nobody told before anywhere. And i tell you, i will NO GRIND ONCE MORE from START, just because CCP is lazy. NO FULL RESPEC = DELETE OF DUST End of story. The players that are anti-respec are afraid that other players will be able to correct their builds and become better than them. I think more competition is just good for the game. The only truly legitimate argument against respecs I've ever heard is how it would completely **** up a player market, because demand would shift randomly and make it impossible to corner, exploit, or merely profit from market trends. Also, that argument again assumes on demand respecs, which basically no one has argued for, ever. I feel that is a completely legitimate concern, however, until that is actually a thing, it remains little more than a theoretical concern. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12113	Posted - 2014.03.11 16:17:00 - [73] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: IDGAF about flavor of the month, people getting what they want, or people being able to try new things. I just can't stand people assuming and demanding something that is not necessary. The open market argument comes from the long term view respecs are a temporary thing until it's finally implemented. If they don't absolutely need to give a respec they shouldn't because it gives people the false idea that it should be a regular thing and this is the kind of game where they'll get respecs. I've said before I wouldn't mind a respec, given it was at the right time (medium suit slot reconfiguration, IMO bigger than the bonus changes), I do mind people saying "gimme gimme gimme gimme, gimme or I'll leave, CCP screwed up, gimme gimme" A respec doesn't fix CCPs mistakes, it just holds people off for a week or two until they remember all the other problems with this game. I think we just have different views on what is necessary. For me, player enjoyment and satisfaction is necessary, and showing us that they finally want to provide racial parity is a very good time to get everyone on the same page. One way or the other, another respec is in the future, whether it's now or later on when racial vehicles and weapons are added. I simply argue that holding off helps nothing because if it's going to happen, it's going to happen. Letting people have fun in the mean time does nothing but let people have fun. If CCP wants to kill legit respec concerns, they provide racial parity, and leave it alone aside from occasional % passes here and there to better smooth out balance. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12129	Posted - 2014.03.11 20:14:00 - [74] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: Dust Fiend you make the best argument for your side, and I truly believe you when you say you just want to put player happiness first. I'm just looking past 1.8 and the handful of players we have now. I wouldn't care about respecs one way or the other but too many people are under the impression this is or should be a regular thing, and I have to stand against that every time it comes up. Fair enough. My build is personally being buffed, quite a bit in 1.8 (Hmg / Forge Sentinel) and since not refunding dropsuit SP is insane (because scouts and heavies should have the chance to play their races suit without sticking to the ones they didn't want) I will at least have a perfectly viable fit with very little wasted SP, right from the get go. That doesn't change that I still will basically never ever spawn in it, but while I do feel that's a legitimate concern in an FPS environment, I have not and will not ever argue that that's a legit call for a respec. My personal desires for a respec are selfish in that I just want to have fun doing the only thing that's fun to me (on the ground) in DUST: Scout. I have barely touched my heavy in many many months now, I only fly or run my scout that has no relevant skills other than basic core skills. For me, NPE is an entirely different topic (a vital topic, but a different topic). Respecs obviously don't take that much away from dev time, it's not like we're detracting from the games development by adding these in as a cushion to change. I want to see legit respec threads die. I want to laugh at QQ respec threads when someones FoTM gets nerf hammered for a bit. It's one thing for balance passes to come through and shake things up a little, but it's another thing entirely to release long awaited core material, and just tell people to deal with it; sit on the stuff we forced you to use, buy these nice omega boosters, and grind your happy ass into what you would have played from the start had we not ****** up and failed to release it on time. It's a slippery slope that CCP brought onto themselves, because even just refunding Dropsuit Command isn't enough when you consider each race prefers a different style of tanking. There are just too many arguments as to why these refunds are good at this exact moment. One way or the other, we'll know soon enough, and will see plenty of QQ threads on the forums regardless of which way the cookie crumbles. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12130	Posted - 2014.03.11 20:49:00 - [75] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: More arguments don't necessarily make better arguments. As for myself I'm a fully specced Gallente Logi with maxed cores and my weapon of choice is the AR. Even if I was given a respec I'd keep what I have. Would I move around a million or two? Probably, but I would eventually skill back into what I had before, I skilled into nothing that I didn't enjoy at standard. I've always been a "if you can't run it in advanced why take it to proto" kinda guy so the cost to get in a new suit are minimal and if it's worth taking to 5 I'll take the time to do it, using LP or AUR gear in the meantime. I always wanted to be a Gallente Heavy and seeing as how it was unreleased content that should have been there I just saved up. It wasn't even hard, we've had countless events that offered more than enough SP since the announcment of the new suits, I just didn't spend it on anything I wasn't sure about, same reason why I still won't spec into the CalLogi despite having the SP for it, and an interest in having it. It's not CCPs fault if I spec into the CalLogi and have none left for the suit I wanted more. For anyone who thinks it's unfair for me to be against respecs because I have so much SP, I've capped out almost every week for over a year, with boosters running most of the time. I've paid my fair share in both hours and dollars into this F2P game. On the first point I highlighted: That is your own personal decision. Telling everyone who wanted to play heavies that they should have just waited isn't an argument. Just because you enjoyed playing logi and decide to wait doesn't mean that every non Amarr heavy in the game should have followed suit. I leveled in heavies for a variety of reasons, not all of which are even related to gameplay, however, it is related to the next point I highlighted. Many of us have played more than our fair share of this free to play game, of which many of us have dumped actual money into. So, while you feel the right to have earned your stance by your dedication, we feel exactly the same way. Plenty of us have poured far more time and effort into this game than it probably deserves, and we feel the right to spend that earned SP in an environment that has us informed. There are many, many examples that could be, and indeed have been made about this. The crux of the issue here is racial dropsuits. Even though all the other changes do point towards a call for a respec, none do so more than racial parity of dropsuits, as this effects both which upgrades and equipment you would choose, and with the new shift to damage profiles and bonuses to weapons, also applies to the Weapons tree. If you refund only Dropsuit Command, then you screw over players who went Amaar (armor) heavy, or who stacked up on low slot skills for scouts, so even if these people try to go into the suit they want, without a dropsuit Upgrades refund, they are ** out of luck, and have to sit on now useless skills. If you refund Upgrades and Command, but not weapons, you allow every other suit the chance to switch playstyles, except for heavies, since they will be forced to sit on heavy weapons that they can no longer use, even if they moved to their other option: Commandos. If you don't refund anything, then you ** off everyone who didn't think running around in BPOs for a year while they waited for their CORE suit to arrive made for very compelling gameplay. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12156	Posted - 2014.03.12 05:16:00 - [76] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: That is your own personal decision. Telling everyone who wanted to play heavies that they should have just waited isn't an argument. Just because you enjoyed playing logi and decide to wait doesn't mean that every non Amarr heavy in the game should have followed suit. Speccing into the Amarr heavy was everyone else's personal decision, it's not like it was wasted SP, they used it, and just because something they want more finally comes doesn't mean they have any more right than anyone else to take a big chunk of SP out of one thing and put it into another. It doesn't take that much SP to take a suit to advanced if you know you are eventually going to stop using it for another suit. You can argue that we could have a respec just this once because of the racial parity reason, but then to be fair you'd have to do it every time they added new things, and I've already stated why you can't have constant respecs. Obviously we won't see eye to eye on this for one simple reason: You see the Caldari and Amarr Scouts, as well as the Gallente, Minmatar, and Caldari Heavy frames all as new material. I see only old material. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12161	Posted - 2014.03.12 15:46:00 - [77] - Quote Dropsuit Command is all that's being refunded. That a way to reward vets who made mistakes and make everyone else deal with it. Have fun switching to shield tanking from armor tanking and wasting all that SP. Have fun running equipment that doesn't fit your new suit bonuses logi's, guess you just have to deal with it. DUST 514, where CCPs decisions matter Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12161	Posted - 2014.03.12 15:51:00 - [78] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Dropsuit Command is all that's being refunded. That a way to reward vets who made mistakes and make everyone else deal with it. Have fun switching to shield tanking from armor tanking and wasting all that SP. Have fun running equipment that doesn't fit your new suit bonuses logi's, guess you just have to deal with it. DUST 514, where CCPs decisions matter At least you got a refund on something. I'd rather I didn't. Now top end players can get back wasted FoTM SP and focus on a single suit, yet mid range and newer players who want to switch to a different kind of tank just have to waste that SP. Hell, even vets who want to switch have wasted SP now. That's fine, just don't come at me with your choices matter, when they don't, because only a terribad would skill armor when they use shields, or vice versa Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12161	Posted - 2014.03.12 15:59:00 - [79] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Tallen Ellecon wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Dropsuit Command is all that's being refunded. That a way to reward vets who made mistakes and make everyone else deal with it. Have fun switching to shield tanking from armor tanking and wasting all that SP. Have fun running equipment that doesn't fit your new suit bonuses logi's, guess you just have to deal with it. DUST 514, where CCPs decisions matter At least you got a refund on something. I'd rather I didn't. Now top end players can get back wasted FoTM SP and focus on a single suit, yet mid range and newer players who want to switch to a different kind of tank just have to waste that SP. Hell, even vets who want to switch have wasted SP now. That's fine, just don't come at me with your choices matter, when they don't, because only a terribad would skill armor when they use shields, or vice versa Really, they give you a respec and it's not enough? You're reaction may be tame but I'm waiting for all the butthurt from people who expected more. Shields and armor trees are like 4 mil a piece, only about 1mil to use complex if you use LP modules. There's a freaking potential 2 mil extra SP over this weekend. People just can't be satisfied with anything. This is exactly why I was against respecs in the first place, people will still have an excuse to be pissed. You're missing the point. My choices are supposed to matter. Why, on Gods green earth, would I CHOOSE to skill into Armor, if my suit is shield based? Why is it ok to now have X amount of SP forever tied up in something that I may never ever use? That isn't my choice, it's CCPs, period. Oh wait, no. Now you're going to tell me I should have run starter fits for the past year, or skilled into some other random suit while I wait to play the basic material that was backlogged thanks to CCP having to scrap their initial engine and start from scratch. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12164	Posted - 2014.03.12 16:27:00 - [80] - Quote This was the real reason for this thread to exist haha ^_^ Not for us to discuss, but for CCP to have an excuse to shut us up once they announced this. Clever. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot

DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12171	Posted - 2014.03.12 16:43:00 - [81] - Quote So, either CPM was lying to us about being near unanimous on a full infantry respec, or they were completely powerless on this issue. CCP needs to just release a statement saying there will be no respecs, period. Why insult us by giving us a place to "discuss" something that had clearly already been decided, with no intent to actually discuss? This is a containment thread and nothing more. This is Level R Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12171	Posted - 2014.03.12 16:48:00 - [82] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: So, either CPM was lying to us about being near unanimous on a full infantry respec, or they were completely powerless on this issue. CCP needs to just release a statement saying there will be no respecs, period. Why insult us by giving us a place to "discuss" something that had clearly already been decided, with no intent to actually discuss? "No respecs" has been CCPs default position since... forever and you know that. So why create a DISCUSSION thread for something that was already decided, and therefore had no business being discussed? That's straight up insulting. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12177	Posted - 2014.03.12 17:00:00 - [83] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Malkai Inos wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: So, either CPM was lying to us about being near unanimous on a full infantry respec, or they were completely powerless on this issue. CCP needs to just release a statement saying there will be no respecs, period. Why insult us by giving us a place to "discuss" something that had clearly already been decided, with no intent to actually discuss? "No respecs" has been CCPs default position since... forever and you know that. So why create a DISCUSSION thread for something that was already decided, and therefore had no business being discussed? That's straight up insulting. Because some individuals chose to spam the fora with all the same threads to the point where no discussion could be had on anything. Would you rather they perma banned users? Because that's the only alternative, given the behavior of some that's, again, on display this very moment. I'd rather they made an official statement that said "We will not be refunding any SP unless we deem it necessary. Thank you." Lock respec threads, link back to that notice. At least that's genuine. Don't get our hopes up when you clearly do not intend to listen to nor discuss the issue with us. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12180	Posted - 2014.03.12 17:22:00 - [84] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: DJINN Marauder wrote: Looks like everyone wasted their times posting their opinions and logic on this thread. Last i checked a dropsuit command tree respec was going to happen. Have they since changed their mind or do you just consider anything but full compliance a complete failure to comply? Considering the total lack of discussion by CCP on this issue, and the complete dismissal of the fact that, among other things, Armor and Shield skills are now wasted if you try switching to your new (read: OLD) backlogged suit, well...you're just sol. Buy boosters and deal with it. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12182	Posted - 2014.03.12 17:29:00 - [85] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Malkai Inos wrote: DJINN Marauder wrote: Looks like everyone wasted their times posting their opinions and logic on this thread. Last i checked a dropsuit command tree respec was going to happen. Have they since changed their mind or do you just consider anything but full compliance a complete failure to comply? Considering the total lack of discussion by CCP on this issue, and the complete dismissal of the fact that, among other things, Armor and Shield skills are now wasted if you try switching to your new (read: OLD) backlogged suit, well...you're just sol. Buy boosters and deal with it. The thing is, this has put me off of buying any AUR boosters again. I will never pay a dime more for this game. Its such poor quality and poor community management and bad will. I haven't been able to buy anything (in game and out) for almost a year now. I should finally have an income again soon, but I definitely won't be putting it here. Boosters were the only reasonable investment but why bother when things are deliberately nerfed and locked away from you to promote the sale of boosters? I have enough SP. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12182	Posted - 2014.03.12 17:35:00 - [86] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Malkai Inos wrote: DJINN Marauder wrote: Looks like everyone wasted their times posting their opinions and logic on this thread. Last i checked a dropsuit command tree respec was going to happen. Have they since changed their mind or do you just consider anything but full compliance a complete failure to comply? Considering the total lack of discussion by CCP on this issue, and the complete dismissal of the fact that, among other things, Armor and Shield skills are now wasted if you try switching to your new (read: OLD) backlogged suit, well...you're just sol. Buy boosters and deal with it. It's not optimal. I get it. So? Have you ever been willing to settle with less than the full extend of your demands*. Please tell me what kind of discussion there can be when one side is not willing to accept a compromise. For lack of a better term. Not meant to sound judgmental. I have on plenty of things. Touting the phrase "your choices matter" then intentionally locking out portions of your player base (who waited patiently for backlogged content) by forcing them to sit on irrelevant SP just in the hopes they'll buy boosters is nothing short of insulting. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12188	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:01:00 - [87] - Quote Sarus Rambo wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: Vordred Knight wrote: Im disgusted I can't believe ccp pulled something like this this is painful You are not the only one. The worst thing is that the new EP, CCP Rogue, has signed off on this decision. He cannot be unaware of it. No old vets will return. More players will leave the game. Less players will pay for boosters. Great work there CCP Rogue, you are no different than the old EP. You all are just mad. I for one welcome the re-spec the way it stands now. It makes the most sense to give people who didn't have any option before to go full factional. I shed a single tear for those who still don't have all their racial weapon variants, but oh well. Just deal. Except that it doesn't give them the chance to go full factional, because the skills required to fit one suit =/= the skills required to fit another suit. So basically, it just punishes people who waited patiently for backlogged content and played the game in the interim. That's all it does. Oh, and it rewards high SP players who tested multiple suits by letting them focus down to just one or two with no negative consequence. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12188	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:07:00 - [88] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: This respec is not for you changing roles. This respec is for people changing racial suits without penality: Amarr Heavy -> Caldari Heavy. Minmatar Scout -> Amarr Scout. Gallent Logi -> Caldari Logi. Stuff like this. Because, you know, they changed the bonus. If you didn't like scout then why did you spec into it? Also equipment skills are never worthless. Also even if you want to change, you had to spec into a new suit and a new weapon before. Now you at least get your dropsuit sp back. Are people never happy?! Having maxed Armor Repair and Armor Plates on shield tanked suits isn't exactly what I'd call "without penalty" Having to use equipment that doesn't fall in line with your new logi bonus isn't exactly what I'd call "without penalty" Having the wrong type of weapon for your new Assault bonuses isn't exactly what I'd call "without penalty" Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12188	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:34:00 - [89] - Quote All I know is that this thread proves that CCP never had any intent to open up a dialogue with us on this issue. There has been no reason given for their decision, no explanation on what was discussed to arrive to this decision, and no explanation as to why we've been banished to Level R to talk amongst ourselves. Why were we simply not told "No" Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12189	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:44:00 - [90] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: All I know is that this thread proves that CCP never had any intent to open up a dialogue with us on this issue. There has been no reason given for their decision, no explanation on what was discussed to arrive to this decision, and no explanation as to why we've been banished to Level R to talk amongst ourselves. Why were we simply not told "No" I still fail to see how you came to that conclusion, seing that their answer demonstrably turned out not to be "No". A "yes, but" might not be what you asked for, maybe not even enough, but that's still not the complete negative you make it out to be. The simple fact is that it isn't fair across the board. Some players are hit harder by this, players who patiently waited for backlogged content. It is a short sighted fix, and I could even forgive that, if they would just talk to us. Apparently even the CPM was pushing for this, yet they still turned it down. Why Where is the dialogue? Where is the reasoning? Why does CCP feel that having skills that don't synergize is good? Why have they banished us to Level R if for no other reason than containment, since discussion was quite clearly not their goal? Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot

DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12189	Posted - 2014.03.12 18:50:00 - [91] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Malkai Inos wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: http://dust514.com/news/blog/2014/03/dropsuits-of-uprising-1.8/ After lengthy discussions with the CPM and large amounts of community feedback, the decision has been made to refund all skill points currently spent in the Dropsuit Command tree to playersGÇÖ unallocated SP pools. So, if your preferred racial frame didnGÇÖt previously exist, youGÇÖll be able to switch to one of the newly available suit frames without penalty. That's soooo 16:00pm EVE time. Get with the times, granpa. I have been up for over 36 hours and the three hours I slept I missed it. I just want this thread locked or deleted. Get out of Level R, this is Vector territory now. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12193	Posted - 2014.03.12 19:04:00 - [92] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: This respec is not for you changing roles. This respec is for people changing racial suits without penality: Amarr Heavy -> Caldari Heavy. Minmatar Scout -> Amarr Scout. Gallent Logi -> Caldari Logi. Stuff like this. Because, you know, they changed the bonus. If you didn't like scout then why did you spec into it? Also equipment skills are never worthless. Also even if you want to change, you had to spec into a new suit and a new weapon before. Now you at least get your dropsuit sp back. Are people never happy?! Having maxed Armor Repair and Armor Plates on shield tanked suits isn't exactly what I'd call "without penalty" Having to use equipment that doesn't fall in line with your new logi bonus isn't exactly what I'd call "without penalty" Having the wrong type of weapon for your new Assault bonuses isn't exactly what I'd call "without penalty" I'll never grasp why this community is content with having wasted SP sitting around that you literally would never have spent in light of these new changes. It will actually never compute. You say that SP is valuable, and in the same breath, dismiss its value. Are you now seriously complaining about core skills which always give you a benefit? Do you REALLY want to go THAT path?! 25% more armor are 25% more armor, no matter what suit. Also you might want to spec into a second suit later on, which might be an armor suit. Also: Am I the only one around here who thinks that variety doesn't hurt? Even with the respec I'll spec into 3 suits again. And I'll also spec into a new weapon. Heck. How many SP do you have? 1 million? If yes, then your character is way too young anyways to care about stuff like respecs. Armor plates and Reps do not raise base stats genius Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12195	Posted - 2014.03.12 19:22:00 - [93] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Malkai Inos wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: All I know is that this thread proves that CCP never had any intent to open up a dialogue with us on this issue. There has been no reason given for their decision, no explanation on what was discussed to arrive to this decision, and no explanation as to why we've been banished to Level R to talk amongst ourselves. Why were we simply not told "No" I still fail to see how you came to that conclusion, seing that their answer demonstrably turned out not to be "No". A "yes, but" might not be what you asked for, maybe not even enough, but that's still not the complete negative you make it out to be. The simple fact is that it isn't fair across the board. Some players are hit harder by this, players who patiently waited for backlogged content. It is a short sighted fix, and I could even forgive that, if they would just talk to us. Apparently even the CPM was pushing for this, yet they still turned it down. Why Where is the dialogue? Where is the reasoning? Why does CCP feel that having skills that don't synergize is good? Why have they banished us to Level R if for no other reason than containment, since discussion was quite clearly not their goal? A compromise is never fair across the board and, honestly, I did the math while writing my above post, not knowing whether it even ends up supporting the argument I was trying to make but it turned out surprisingly close to the painful compromise I expected it to be. Yes, some are hit harder then others. But that includes the ones who have personal, real worries about what kind of precedent any form of respec might pose and whether it might end up being the one to finally break the dam for a progression system they didn't sign up for when they joined the game. You might disagree with these worries and you have every right to do so but they're there nonetheless. And I have to stress again. The CPM pushed for a full infantry respec and got a partial one. That might not be the full extend of what they asked for but they were not turned down by any means. My little crappy math tells me that the vast majority of players got granted more than they were denied. That's what a compromise is all about. Neither gets exactly what they would like so that neither is left completely in the "dust"(huehue). Regarding this thread's existence, it's probably a combination of those two: The idealist says: It's there so that the community can have a focused discussion for devs to look at and asses the overall of a need/demand for a respec along with the supporting arguments from either side. The cynic says: It's there purely to contain the discussion and prevent these threads from flooding the rest of the forum to its detriment. I pre planned for this anyways, so it doesn't really effect me other than not being able to switch heavy to scout (which I haven't once complained about because while I don't agree with it, I accept that it's what CCP wants) I have better ** to be doing right now lol o7 LEVEL R** Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12200	Posted - 2014.03.12 20:15:00 - [94] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: LEVEL R Still no clue what that means. Anyways. I am generally unaffected by this blunder, as I planned ahead of time for just such an occasion. Just wanted to voice how I felt about the way the whole thing was handled, and I look forward to seeing how the community responds to it as time goes on. o7 Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12224	Posted - 2014.03.13 19:49:00 - [95] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: CCP might aswell close this thread It was pointless from the beginning LONG LIVE LEVEL R!!!! Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12478	Posted - 2014.03.25 13:38:00 - [96] - Quote GG CCP GG Long live Level R Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot

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