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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1645
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Posted - 2014.02.17 20:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
I hope that they don't give a respec so all of you can cry some more. If they do you will be crying for another in a few months because the suits they will release will be unbalance or just plain junk and they will be changed withing three months. You all drop more tears than a 2 year old.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1646
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 20:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Lynn Beck wrote: 'In Eve' it doesn't take an entire month to start to run 1 weapon type(shotguns, swarms, snipers) or to even get 1 dropsuit class (heavies)
small tech 2 rails 6 days
medium tech 2 rails 20 days
large tech 2 rails 48 days
24 days to fly a tech 2 frig with no support skills, it only gets you in the hull.
2 days for Damage control II
8 hours for Small armor repairer II
2 days for the medium armor repairer II
6 days for a Large
Jut to get into a tech 2 frig with only a T2 version of damage controls, railguns and armor repairs takes around 28 days. A weapon in dust can be skilled into in about 2 hours and an advanced within a day. I don't think you are 100% accurate.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1646
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 20:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
Darken-Soul wrote:Alldin Kan wrote:NK Scout wrote:Because you have 30 mil sp
Like it or not we are getting one
And I already have proto Even this much SP isn't enough for me to go on other suits that I want: Cloak Scout with PRO knives Caldari Assault with PRO combat Rifle Minmatar Assault with shotgun/SMG Minmatar Logi for team support + Chromosome nostalgia It truly is going to be sad to see CCP lower themselves further to accept unnecessary demands by its playerbase that doesn't play this game properly and have no sense of progression. If anything, players should be asking when is Player Market coming (crucial aspect of game missing for too long). everyone already knows CCP doesn't care about a market. Booster sales are the prime focus. Hence allowing FoTM every patch. Notice its never the same thing twice. Why make something OP if everyone already has skills in it?
If you need more tinfoil I have an extra roll at the house.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1646
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 20:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
NK Scout wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:I hope that they don't give a respec so all of you can cry some more. If they do you will be crying for another in a few months because the suits they will release will be unbalance or just plain junk and they will be changed withing three months. You all drop more tears than a 2 year old. Then the playerbase will die and this will be grind514 for a year
Doubt it, if only the suits are dropped and no respec is given then we will see a small climb in numbers. The problems this game has is all to do with content and player numbers. Matchmaking sucks because there aren't enough players. The game is boring because there isn't anything to do. The game isn't fun because we don't have many modules and suits. The game is a grind because it should be to get the best gear.
Players are a whiners, we want it all right now the way we want it and it better be perfect. It doesn't matter that the noob didn't read or consider what they were doing when placing SP. It doesn't matter that people skilled into things that were OP for the simple fact that they were OP. It doesn't matter about anything but how the players feel. A lot of us should stop feeling and start thinking, it would stop a lot of problems.
If CCP wants to bring back the largest amount of players with the potential to keep as many as possible then they need to give a refund to entice people to play. The problem with that is the game needs to be fun. Refund and respecs will only make players feel good for a while and will not solve the problem of the game being boring, repetitive and bland.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1646
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 20:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Lynn Beck wrote: 'In Eve' it doesn't take an entire month to start to run 1 weapon type(shotguns, swarms, snipers) or to even get 1 dropsuit class (heavies) small tech 2 rails 6 days medium tech 2 rails 20 days large tech 2 rails 48 days 24 days to fly a tech 2 frig with no support skills, it only gets you in the hull. 2 days for Damage control II 8 hours for Small armor repairer II 2 days for the medium armor repairer II 6 days for a Large Jut to get into a tech 2 frig with only a T2 version of damage controls, railguns and armor repairs takes around 28 days. A weapon in dust can be skilled into in about 2 hours and an advanced within a day. I don't think you are 100% accurate. You don't have to fly everything at tech 2..... Quit weighting the argument.
I am not, he said it takes a month to do anything in DUST and that EVE isn't the same way. If you are going proto then yes it does take a month but it isn't out of line with EVE. Standard and advanced gear is easy and inexpensive to get into. I am just showing that it does take time to get the best equipment because I don't think he is talking about skilling into basic or advanced gear.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1646
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 21:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
Alldin Kan wrote:NK Scout wrote:Because you have 30 mil sp
Like it or not we are getting one
And I already have proto Even this much SP isn't enough for me to go on other suits that I want: Cloak Scout with PRO knives Caldari Assault with PRO combat Rifle Minmatar Assault with shotgun/SMG Minmatar Logi for team support + Chromosome nostalgia It truly is going to be sad to see CCP lower themselves further to accept unnecessary demands by its playerbase that doesn't play this game properly and have no sense of progression. If anything, players should be asking when is Player Market coming (crucial aspect of game missing for too long).
A market, a bounty system, a full line up of suits/weapons and the ablity to go where we want like proper sandbox is what is needed, not SP refunds. I try not to complain about blues but the past three or four days have been the worst I have ever played. I don't even understand what they are doing. The reason I die to HAVs is because no one will help destroy them, light rifles don't hurt heavy armored vehicles. You are correct it is going to be sad to see CCP acquiesce to bad players.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1646
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Posted - 2014.02.17 21:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:
Players are a whiners, we want it all right now the way we want it and it better be perfect. It doesn't matter that the noob didn't read or consider what they were doing when placing SP. It doesn't matter that people skilled into things that were OP for the simple fact that they were OP. It doesn't matter about anything but how the players feel. A lot of us should stop feeling and start thinking, it would stop a lot of problems.
You are right, usually there are people whining for a respec just because they made mistakes. But this is different. The scale of the changes being made to suits means that, without a respec, plenty of people who have made good decisions would be forced into totally uncompetitive suit/weapon combinations, and in some cases, totally different playstyles (e.g. Min logi going from being the speed hacker to the chubby chaser). Either of these options is fine: 1. Everything stays as it is, choices stand (no respec). or 2. Everything changes, choices no longer stand, everyone gets to make their choices again (suit lottery plus respec). This really is not: 3. Everything changes, choices no longer stand, but no one gets to make their choices again (suit lottery plus no respec)
Changes in the skill tree, to me, is the only reason to give any SP back. They change stuff in EVE all the time and it isn't that bad. I think they have painted themselves into a corner and almost have to have to give back SP but at the same time we have had plenty of time to save SP for the upcoming changes that aren't even official yet. I completely understand if they decide to refund SP for suits but if they don't it isn't the end of the world. I like that CCP does things their own way, EVE would totally suck if they did what the players want. The new deployables are a prime example. People want the code rewritten and new stuff. They rewrote parts of the code to allow for deployable structures and then released them to see how they work. These structures are EVE2.0 but people are whining about them sucking or being pointless yet they provide content and are the foundation of the code all players want. CCP can't win no matter what they do. If they release the best content of all time the players ask why wasn't there more, if it sucks the players rage quit and if it is largely back-end changes and small stuff they are called inept and stupid even if the things released are fun and provided content.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
|
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1646
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 21:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
Awry Barux wrote:Yeeeuuuupppp wrote:Dropsuit command respec. That's it. No need to respec anything else. Care to respond to any of the several compelling arguments as to why that's not enough?
I will all day long. This is a fun topic to me. Ask away.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1646
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 22:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
Lynn Beck wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Lynn Beck wrote: 'In Eve' it doesn't take an entire month to start to run 1 weapon type(shotguns, swarms, snipers) or to even get 1 dropsuit class (heavies) small tech 2 rails 6 days medium tech 2 rails 20 days large tech 2 rails 48 days 24 days to fly a tech 2 frig with no support skills, it only gets you in the hull. 2 days for Damage control II 8 hours for Small armor repairer II 2 days for the medium armor repairer II 6 days for a Large Jut to get into a tech 2 frig with only a T2 version of damage controls, railguns and armor repairs takes around 28 days. A weapon in dust can be skilled into in about 2 hours and an advanced within a day. I don't think you are 100% accurate. You don't have to fly everything at tech 2..... Quit weighting the argument. I am not, he said it takes a month to do anything in DUST and that EVE isn't the same way. If you are going proto then yes it does take a month but it isn't out of line with EVE. Standard and advanced gear is easy and inexpensive to get into. I am just showing that it does take time to get the best equipment because I don't think he is talking about skilling into basic or advanced gear. In EVE you don't need maximum SP into a specialization to be able to fight an assault frig. You could use a Thrasher(destroyer) or a Rifter/slasher. You can get a lv3 all skills Rifter in about 3 days.(gun, afterburner, shield booster, stasis web, Gyro.) In DUST if you want to run a moderately decent shotgun scout you need Biotics V, kincats 1, weaponry 3, lw op 4, and shotgun op 1. That's 1-2 mill SP right there, not to mention the sp for profile dampening and a STANDARD remote. Edit: in DUST the quickest way into PC is proto basic, which costs 6-9 mill SP just to do, which is about 3-4 months. Now tell me, does EVE keep newbies from joinin the fray until they've grinded for 3-4 months to get 1 suit to even mediocre levels?
Your are comparing being able to fight with endgame stuff. Any merc can fight in PC day one just like any EVE pilot can fly out to null day one. With out the support skills or a large fleet then it takes 3-4 months to be good enough to do what your are needed to do. Fly out to null in a month old toon and see what happens. There are months of support skills needed to do PC level things and null things. Don't compare PC to a a 100 ship fleet because they aren't the same. Time needed to be at the upper levels and in the hardcore areas of each game are around the same.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
|
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1646
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 23:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
Awry Barux wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Awry Barux wrote:Yeeeuuuupppp wrote:Dropsuit command respec. That's it. No need to respec anything else. Care to respond to any of the several compelling arguments as to why that's not enough? I will all day long. This is a fun topic to me. Ask away. Refer to post #3 of this thread for the primary argument for upgrade and weapon respecs. To add to it, what if I was a Min RPer who went Min Assault to wait for the Min Heavy? Light weapon skills, while not 100% useless, no longer fit my role. Similarly, an Amarr heavy who was waiting to go Amarr scout probably has millions tied up in heavy weapons that are unusable on the scout suit. Again, similarly, someone who went with their racial medium, say, Min Logi, to wait for the Min Heavy, probably has millions tied up in equipment skills that are literally unusable in a sentinel suit. I can come up with 1000s of similar examples, but you get the idea. Weapon and dropsuit upgrade skill choice are not separable from dropsuit command- everyone skills into them with their dropsuit in mind, and if dropsuit choices are changing, the other trees must be re-chosen as well.
Don't get me wrong, CCP has made it where a refund is almost 100% needed. The point of my entire diatribe is that most skills we skilled into are needed for all suits and only a hand full of skills dictate minute to minute fighting. Anything more than a dropsuit refund isn't needed only wanted. Most items can be skilled into in a short amount of time. All gear doesn't need to be prototype to be able to play the game. I agree that we are going to get the shaft in suits. I skilled into Amarr assault for the weapon bonus and if they take it I will never use it again. I skilled into Amarr logi for the rep bonus so yes I do see the problem but at the same time we have had ample time to save our SP. Like the song says, you got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything.
We shouldn't let our feelings dictate the direction of the game, we need to think about what is best for the game not what is best for the individual. I have said many it many times and I'll say it again. All of our problems stem from a lack of content and not much else. One year from now I will almost bet my next years pay this will topic will still be here because it is based on emotion not thought.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1647
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Posted - 2014.02.18 00:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:
Your are comparing being able to fight with endgame stuff. Any merc can fight in PC day one just like any EVE pilot can fly out to null day one. With out the support skills or a large fleet then it takes 3-4 months to be good enough to do what your are needed to do. Fly out to null in a month old toon and see what happens. There are months of support skills needed to do PC level things and null things. Don't compare PC to a a 100 ship fleet because they aren't the same. Time needed to be at the upper levels and in the hardcore areas of each game are around the same.
There lies a difference though. The open world nature of EVE allows for very large groups of players to join together in a 'fleet' where new players are less of a hindrance when they are 1/100+ ships. Dust is 16v16 capped and 1 new player is a severe hinderance. Even then, SP refund isn't about protostomping, it's about newer and potentially returning players feeling better about massive sweeping changes that are happening and feeling more inclined to return or keep playing. There shouldn't be too many more reasons for people to justifiably ask for an SP respec if CCP can start to find some sort of balance in 1.8's line up of suits and weapons. New content won't justify a respec so hopefully they can reach a point where each patch doesn't actually justify a respec in the minds of a large portion of a playerbase. Whether or not a refund happens for 1.8 should NOT be about who does or does not deserve it. It should be about player retention and potentially bringing people back (like myself). CCP needs to decide which path leads to higher player count. I have my opinions about it, and so does everyone. CCP has more info on what they think will work better for the bottom line in the end, I'm sure that is what their choice will mostly be based on. Maybe that is where the discussion in this thread should lead.
So should they have given a frig respec when they tiericided the frigs? Lots of players would return and some would stay. Is it worth going back on their mantra or ideals to gain a small percentage of players? I agree that refunded SP would bring back and keep players but with CCPs track record of releases I honestly don't think it will help in the long run. They will give a respec, people will dump SP in OP weapons/suits or make stupid choices, like they do now, and in 5 months we'll be right back here because of the nerf/buff cycles that we will have till the the game shuts down. Content, content, and more content is what we need. Refunds are a band aid. If/when HAVs get re-rebalanced they will be begging for a respec because it isn't the win button they skilled into. Should they get one then or wait till medium vehicles or speeders are released? When will it be enough?
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
|
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1647
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 00:35:00 -
[12] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:
Your are comparing being able to fight with endgame stuff. Any merc can fight in PC day one just like any EVE pilot can fly out to null day one. With out the support skills or a large fleet then it takes 3-4 months to be good enough to do what your are needed to do. Fly out to null in a month old toon and see what happens. There are months of support skills needed to do PC level things and null things. Don't compare PC to a a 100 ship fleet because they aren't the same. Time needed to be at the upper levels and in the hardcore areas of each game are around the same.
There lies a difference though. The open world nature of EVE allows for very large groups of players to join together in a 'fleet' where new players are less of a hindrance when they are 1/100+ ships. Dust is 16v16 capped and 1 new player is a severe hinderance. Even then, SP refund isn't about protostomping, it's about newer and potentially returning players feeling better about massive sweeping changes that are happening and feeling more inclined to return or keep playing. There shouldn't be too many more reasons for people to justifiably ask for an SP respec if CCP can start to find some sort of balance in 1.8's line up of suits and weapons. New content won't justify a respec so hopefully they can reach a point where each patch doesn't actually justify a respec in the minds of a large portion of a playerbase. Whether or not a refund happens for 1.8 should NOT be about who does or does not deserve it. It should be about player retention and potentially bringing people back (like myself). CCP needs to decide which path leads to higher player count. I have my opinions about it, and so does everyone. CCP has more info on what they think will work better for the bottom line in the end, I'm sure that is what their choice will mostly be based on. Maybe that is where the discussion in this thread should lead.
In the scope of the game it is the same, I don't have a proto suit (I have never even used a prototype suit), I use bpo weapons and advanced mods almost 100% of the time. The amount of SP needed to build one of my suits is very low compared to some guy running full prototype gear. In a good squad I have no problems what so ever in doing my job. Put me in a bad squad and I get rolled, fly in a good fleet and a pilot will do well and put the same exact pilot in the same setup in a bad fleet and they won't get past the gate.
My point is that if you look at the amount of time needed to do end game things in EVE and then compare them to DUST then Dust is a cake walk when time is compared. Being a noob sucks in both games, getting into the game and developing experience and friends will mean more than almost any amount of SP. My EVE toon is around two years old and has 31M SP, my DUST toon is less than a year old and has 16M. I don't have the money or time or the skill to have 30M SP, that doesn't mean that I can't play or should be given special treatment. Yes I can go to PC, do my job and walk away happy but it doesn't have as much to do with SP as it does personal skill and the squad I run with. Low SP players have a place in DUST and in EVE and we shouldn't count them out. I am a horrible shot and a new player with good personal skill will own me every time, SP isn't all we make it out to be.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1647
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 00:37:00 -
[13] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:
Is DUST a video game, or real life?
Haven't you heard, EVE is real? Come on now this is as close as it comes to having a life that some of us will get.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1649
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Posted - 2014.02.18 00:39:00 -
[14] - Quote
Al the destroyer wrote:Does everyone understand how many man hours would be eaten up with a respec. They are having a hard time with delivering rewards to everyone. I think CCP is doing a great job with the limited resources they have. You think you deserve a respec you say you would come back or stay if they do. I haven't left. I have spent hundreds of dollars in support of this game. Not to pay 2 win but because this is a business! If they can't turn a profit it won't go on. I would rather they spend their precious time developing PvE, different modes, and improved gameplay. Don't give me a respec because I have some useless suits and weapons, rather spend time on core gameplay and additional content!
This is the best post of the entire thread. All other posts should be ignored and his post put in its place. You are 100% correct and good job for putting it into words.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1649
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Posted - 2014.02.18 00:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
Aikuchi Tomaru wrote:
Personally I don't even see the need for a respec when all the missing racial stuff gets released. It's just new items. New items which will get added all the time in the future. If you didn't want that Assault suit you're currently using in the irst place, then why did you spec into it? Because you didn't have a choice? So what. You could've used all your SP to max out core skills first.
This is one of the few reasons that we should get a refund on dropsuit SP. If they had rolled them out one at a time then I wouldn't agree but if they do all at one time then I do think it would be a good idea.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
|
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1649
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 00:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Al the destroyer wrote:Does everyone understand how many man hours would be eaten up with a respec. It went by just fine with the vehicle respec
That doesn't mean it didn't waste resources. It just means that it wasn't all borked up when they released it.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1649
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 00:59:00 -
[17] - Quote
Aikuchi Tomaru wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Aikuchi Tomaru wrote:
Personally I don't even see the need for a respec when all the missing racial stuff gets released. It's just new items. New items which will get added all the time in the future. If you didn't want that Assault suit you're currently using in the irst place, then why did you spec into it? Because you didn't have a choice? So what. You could've used all your SP to max out core skills first.
This is one of the few reasons that we should get a refund on dropsuit SP. If they had rolled them out one at a time then I wouldn't agree but if they do all at one time then I do think it would be a good idea. But why? We will get more suits later too. We will get Pilot suits. We even may get pirate faction suits later. If racial variety justifys a respec then why wouldn't that justify one? As I said: You want racial suits, then save up now. There is still enough time to get enough SP to instantly spec into proto level when the suits come out. New items don't justify respecs. And the addition of MAVs and VTOLs will also hardly justify another vehicle respec.
I totally agree.
It is perception, with all the racial suits out it makes us feel like we had choices. Faction suits make us feel like we have options. They could get away easier with faction stuff because it is not viewed as core gear by most players. But you are correct and I am not trying to do anything but define why faction may be viewed as different.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
|
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1649
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 01:05:00 -
[18] - Quote
Aikuchi Tomaru wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Aikuchi Tomaru wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Aikuchi Tomaru wrote:
Personally I don't even see the need for a respec when all the missing racial stuff gets released. It's just new items. New items which will get added all the time in the future. If you didn't want that Assault suit you're currently using in the irst place, then why did you spec into it? Because you didn't have a choice? So what. You could've used all your SP to max out core skills first.
This is one of the few reasons that we should get a refund on dropsuit SP. If they had rolled them out one at a time then I wouldn't agree but if they do all at one time then I do think it would be a good idea. But why? We will get more suits later too. We will get Pilot suits. We even may get pirate faction suits later. If racial variety justifys a respec then why wouldn't that justify one? As I said: You want racial suits, then save up now. There is still enough time to get enough SP to instantly spec into proto level when the suits come out. New items don't justify respecs. And the addition of MAVs and VTOLs will also hardly justify another vehicle respec. I totally agree. It is perception, with all the racial suits out it makes us feel like we had choices. Faction suits make us feel like we have options. They could get away easier with faction stuff because it is not viewed as core gear by most players. But you are correct and I am not trying to do anything but define why faction may be viewed as different. Not to mention that many people act like they can only spec into one suit and one suit only.
I think I have four suits at advanced and none at proto. The price isn't worth it. I the only prototype things I use anymore is the rep tool and light damage mod. Everything else I use is advance or under.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1649
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 01:14:00 -
[19] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:
You're talking out of your ass.
So if someone wanted to play Heavy they should have just leveled core skills and used started suits for the past 2 years? Do you even read what you type?
+1
They were told to suck it up from day one and play that particular style or get lost. I have to agree with scouts and heavies that they deserve a refund. They weren't offered a choice of core suit line up. I could and have argued the opposite but I think now is the best time to refund SP for suits if they are going to introduce the core racial line up. It may not be right but I do think it is what is best for the game at this particular time if they do release ALL the suits at once in the way in which we are speculating them be and with the changes we think are going to happen.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1649
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 01:23:00 -
[20] - Quote
Aikuchi Tomaru wrote:So what? new stuff gets added. Stuff you knew for a year it would come. Stuff you know for at least a month will be in 1.8. What the **** are you doing with your SP you get until 1.8 gets released? Do you waste it on purpose?
I have to agree, if you are putting SP into a fit you don't like or isn't working for you then why are you doing it? I had a little over a Mil saved but I wanted to play with flaylocks and mass drivers. I only put one level into them so I could try them out, I am now up to level 3 in both but I took it slow. I did it for fun knowing that I have little SP to blow if they don't refund SP, it is my fault and if I don't receive a refund then I'll just collect my own tears because I know that I made that choice not knowing what CCP was going to do.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1651
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Posted - 2014.02.18 01:30:00 -
[21] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:
I think people who are against respecs are against competition. They don't want people to have good builds. Plenty of us have great builds already, almost all 25 million SP I have is put into specific builds, I simply do not enjoy heavies -at all- anymore, so about 11 million SP is basically wasted because I won't play a video game if I'm not having fun with it.
I can see CCP wanting to keep to new eden mentality with SP or whatever, I've never argued for on demand or even frequent respecs. That said, I would be fine if everyone could respec at will before any match, because it does not affect anyone in any way other than hurting their imagination. It's a video game. Period. People need to chill out.
I would spend my SP on finishing up my Incubus build, then either sitting on the rest for when Logistics ships get put back in, or I would go Gallente Shotgun Scout.
I am totally for competition and players being able to have fun but one thing that lures me to this game is that I know that you are going to be doing what you were yesterday. No re specs mean, to me, that the people I am fighting today will be the people I am fighting tomorrow. I know that you can't be a perfect HAV speced pilot today and just drop it all and go fatboy tomorrow. If you have the SP to do both then you deserve to do both but I know you just didn't put it where you want it just to play that one match.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1651
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Posted - 2014.02.18 01:32:00 -
[22] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Why on Earth would you want to have two different heavy suits, or scout suits?
Who does that? What a waste of SP. I mean if that's what you really want to do then by all means, but don't force the rest of us to follow your failing.
I have three different logi suits that I use for different reasons. I understand why a merc would want more than one. I put three levels into the Amarr suit tree for the LR and the rep tool. No other reasons.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
|
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1652
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 01:50:00 -
[23] - Quote
D legendary hero wrote:so, you are encouraging people to leave this game? illustration1 if they changed the ingredients and its really bad then yes i will vomit that meal up. you can do that in any resturant, in the inner cities at least the more country you get.... thats besides the point. You can actually, order a different meal again if the one you originally wanted was not good. (you cant do that continuously or they will call the police). Same here. most of what people specced into changed fundamentally over the past 12 months. we have a right to a respect also illustration 2 still holds and is true in almost every college. College credits are the closest thing to SP in real life because they never disappear and accumulate with time, are transferable and you can pay real money for them 
Only the vehicles have fundamentally changed. The skill and bonuses for infantry have changed little to none and they were all balance issues that needed to be done.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1652
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 01:55:00 -
[24] - Quote
D legendary hero wrote:
do you think it is FUN or RIGHT to grind on core skills for 12 months? 6months or even 3months?
Yes it is right and yes it is fun.
It is right because time spent in game should come with rewards
It is fun because all games are just a repetitive grind to an end goal. People call it grind in a bad way because they want it all exactly when the want it. They don't like having to put forth effort and spend time playing a game to make the game better. They want a win button and they want to change it as soon as the next and better win button is released. It is laziness in its purest form.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1654
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 02:02:00 -
[25] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Aikuchi Tomaru wrote:[
I think you're brain started bleeding before that. You cry about 2 million SP you don't want to use anymore now that there are other suits. And you don't want to skill into the suit you want even though you have the SP. I mean seriously. And you ignore that these are NOT new suits. They are core suits that should have been in the game from the beginning. Period.
Again, this is one of the few reasons that make a good case for a refund and only if they are ALL released at once.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1654
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 02:20:00 -
[26] - Quote
D legendary hero wrote:
You nor the other dude comenting here beleive in what your saying. your both just afraid that people will save their refunded SP until they find the next FoTM and then spamm like crazy.
That doesn't even enter my line of thinking. The FotM thing will be a result of a respec more than likely but it will not change my game at all. I don't have a problem with HAVs, the CR/RR will be nerfed and any other problems like that are trivial thing that I don't even notice.
I don't say things I don't believe in because that is for liars, cheats and pussies. I say what I think whenever I want to whomever I want. No exceptions. Here is what I believe. You are butt hurt about something that you want and can't immediately obtain or you are butt hurt that other players may make better choices than you. I will agree that refunding SP will add some diversity to what we see on the battlefield but other than that it is a way for players to make the game more fair because they don't like not winning every time.
People who want fair PVP games are pussies of the highest order and that goes for people who spec into op gear because it is a win button. Fair is elementary children and old people, be a man and suck it up. Fair is boring and bland. This isn't the game for fair, this is a soap opera for men and a form of social media for egos. The sooner you learn that the sooner the game will be fun for you. I have never one time in almost two years of playing this game called it a grind, thought of it as a grind or anything similar to that. That is why I have fun, I don't see what I can't have and think "Oh man I have to grind out three and a half more games.", I see what I can't have and make a goal for myself and PLAY (not grind) till I get there.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1654
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Posted - 2014.02.18 02:27:00 -
[27] - Quote
Awry Barux wrote:Aikuchi, I take your lack of response to my post (Post #175) to mean that you have no valid counter-argument. Please respond or admit that respecs are justified.
New Eden changes like baby diapers, don't expect to have the exact same tools even six from now. It is not justified just because you can't do what you want in a suit or feel that it is. Things change and so does this game, if you want static gears then this isn't the game for you.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1654
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 02:29:00 -
[28] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:You're giving me diabetes
Try this next time
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1654
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 03:20:00 -
[29] - Quote
Awry Barux wrote:Aikuchi Tomaru wrote:Awry Barux wrote:Aikuchi, I take your lack of response to my post (Post #175) to mean that you have no valid counter-argument. Please respond or admit that respecs are justified. I see you haven't answered my question what you're doing with the SP you're getting since the suits were announced. That must mean you ave no valid counter-argument. Please respond or admit that respecs aren't justified. Again, you're not responding my point. I'm saving my SP in case there isn't a respec, but that has nothing to do with whether or not respecs are warranted. Happy? The Robot Devil wrote:Awry Barux wrote:Aikuchi, I take your lack of response to my post (Post #175) to mean that you have no valid counter-argument. Please respond or admit that respecs are justified. New Eden changes like baby diapers, don't expect to have the exact same tools even six from now. It is not justified just because you can't do what you want in a suit or feel that it is. Things change and so does this game, if you want static gears then this isn't the game for you. It's not a matter of not having the same tools, it's a fundamental role shift for the suit. I picked a role and CCP is planning to rip that role out from under me with a bonus change. A hacking speed bonus and a repair tool bonus are completely different, and it has invalidated the choice I made months ago, before any of these changes were announced or hinted at. Forcing me to stick with a completely different dropsuit than the one I carefully selected is essentially wasting the weeks of SP I poured into said suit, or equivalently, making that amount of SP's worth of boosters disappear from my account. It's one thing to make balance changes, I would happily accept any rebalancing, like a removal of the intrinsic armor repair. It's something else to fundamentally change where the suit fits in the larger game flow- what was once a suit meant for speedy equipment use is now meant to stick behind a heavy with a repair tool. I couldn't care less what the name or race of my suit is, but I picked a specific role, and I don't think it's unreasonable to ask that I should still be able to play that role in 1.8. CCP's failure to finalize roles is theirs to bear, not mine to suffer through.
I agree that they change things and that those changes sometimes go against what your vision of how the suit is/was. You are correct that you that is sucks we do have to suffer through it. My point is that is should be expected, we cannot plan how CCP is going to change the game but the point still stands that there has been and there probably still is time to save SP. I don't agree with refunds but for this one patch/update/release in which all suits are being reworked and the rest of the suits are being added then I will support it but for one suit or small section that is rebalanced or the bonus is changed then I don't agree. We agree for the most part on what needs to be done.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
|
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1654
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 03:27:00 -
[30] - Quote
Awry Barux wrote:Aikuchi Tomaru wrote:
But here's the point: You respec now but sooner or later you get to the point where you could spec into another suit anyways. So it doesn't really matter. So you could also just wait a little longer to spec into the stuff you need now and instead you have the possibility to use a second suit.
It DOES matter when this game's major monetization route is items that increase the rate at which you gain SP. I paid good money to wait less, and by making me wait more by changing what skills I need to do what I want to do, CCP is essentially telling me that the money I spent earlier was a waste. Not just that, but that they deliberately made it a waste, by moving the goalposts after I kicked the ball and refusing to allow me to re-do the kick. I won't quit if there's no respec, but you can be damned sure that I won't be spending another cent on the game.
The booster part of the equation is where CCP stepped in it. You are correct and I empathize with you and if it weren't for that then I would take a more firm stance but you did pay money "to get there faster" like the War Barge lady says and therefore I am more apt to side with you. However, it is only for a total change like we think is going to happen, in any other situation I would tell you to suck it up.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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|
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1655
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 05:05:00 -
[31] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Brian LaFleur wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:It's a video game, let people use their SP how they want in relation to all these new changes
I for one will just collect passive for a good long while if they deny us a full infantry respec.
Tons of nice games already out and soon to be out. Planetside 2, Destiny, I'm already playing Blacklight: Retribution & Warframe. I've put a LOT of money into Dust, but if giving us a full respec is a problem, !@(& CCP. I have a ps4. I've only put in a little over $100, which is still a lot for a free game. If I had money that could be wasted I would have spent much more. I for one am looking at ESO right now since my brother said he'll buy me a years time. I have no problem setting this down for a good long while, though I would definitely suggest different games to people, and explain to them why paying for DUST is a trap by design.
It is a trap by design, much like the lottery. I have enjoyed the money I have spent on DUST. If nothing else this crazy ass forum is worth the money spent.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
|
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1661
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 18:54:00 -
[32] - Quote
D legendary hero wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:D legendary hero wrote:
You nor the other dude comenting here beleive in what your saying. your both just afraid that people will save their refunded SP until they find the next FoTM and then spamm like crazy.
That doesn't even enter my line of thinking. The FotM thing will be a result of a respec more than likely but it will not change my game at all. I don't have a problem with HAVs, the CR/RR will be nerfed and any other problems like that are trivial thing that I don't even notice. I don't say things I don't believe in because that is for liars, cheats and pussies. I say what I think whenever I want to whomever I want. No exceptions. Here is what I believe. You are butt hurt about something that you want and can't immediately obtain or you are butt hurt that other players may make better choices than you. I will agree that refunding SP will add some diversity to what we see on the battlefield but other than that it is a way for players to make the game more fair because they don't like not winning every time. you are wrong. I beleive in Justice and I hold people to their promises. If you break a promise you are a liar. period. I dnt give a **** who you are, or what you beleive. Right is right and wrong is wrong, period. it doesn't matter what the hell you "feel". Every thing is being changed. CCP needs to keep their promises. Thats it. Quote:
People who want fair PVP games are pussies of the highest order
People who like unbalanced games are pussies of the highest order. Your the type of person who would **** a women because you "can", or pick a fight with a 7 year old becuase you have "advantage" forget about right or wrong. That is cowardice. You are scared of a fair fight and want as much advanage as possible. That is *****. period. **** you and your beliefs.
Fair is for old people and children. If you want it fair then you want it easy. I don't like easy games because they are boring. Yeah I want an advantage. I am one of the worst players on this stupid game, I have a 0.65 KDR and 16m SP. Trust me, the only advantage I have in this game is that I have been here for a while. I don't use proto suits, I have two proto weapons that I don't use and to be honest the only prototype anything I use is a rep tool and light damage mods. Saying I have an advantage over anyone is about as untrue as it gets. Good job.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
|
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1661
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 19:02:00 -
[33] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:If I ran a business to business (b2b) company, and changed the software I released to a customer drastically, making their organizations planning go to hell, then I would be in no other position than to give that customer good will, or I would probably be fined and lose said customer.
Refunding infantry SP is a matter of professionalism and good will to the customers. Imagine if all employees at customer of you business would have to write several page long threads to your company about the issue at hand, without any official response for several weeks. Could you Imagine how pissed off the management of the customer company would be?
Maybe you cant understand the above, because you are 18 or younger and haven't had a real job yet. This is my only interpretation of the anti respec HTFU crowd.. Get a fking job Extremely well put, kind of my same thought too. It's not about who does or does not deserve it, it's about goodwill and professionalism. +1
Yeah because my degree in electronics isn't enough, I have had two or three jobs my entire life, I have two jobs right now. Some of you people are so well informed I am amazed that you even play a game like this. Thanks for coming off high horse long enough to talk to the common folk
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
|
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1661
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 19:27:00 -
[34] - Quote
I understand that a lot of you are hurt by this game and I am sorry that you are so emotionally involved that you rage on the forums. Refunded SP goes against lore and the premise of the game. Refunding SP will not in any way make the game better. Only content will, without things to do and stuff to use then this will keep coming up over and over.
I understand that we all think that things will change, so what? Yes, it may make your desired fit not work the way you want or you may have to change your play style. It is called life and life has never been fair and never will be fair. I do think a refund is needed because they are releasing suits that should have been here almost a year ago but I also don't think it is deserved. There are a lot of things that tiericide changed for me in EVE and CCP didn't even blink an eye in the direction of refunding SP. They added a destroyer that I wanted after I skilled into a battlecruiser, no refund. I spent $15 a month on EVE for a year and half plus a couple of plex and they didn't care that I wasted my time on something I didn't want but had to use because there wasn't anything else.
I don't care how much time or money anyone has spent in/on this game because it doesn't make you any more important than me. What are all of you repsecers going to say in six months to a year when more gear is release? Are you going to ask for a refund every time? You all have been doing it since the release of the game so why would you stop with 1.8? Seems to be you want a win button. If I were CCP I would tell all of you to get lost because there will be no refunds.
Here is my official stance: If they remove a skill then you should get your SP back if not then suck it up. I paid for boosters, I bought merc packs, I spent my time in the Beta giving feedback and testing the game. I have precious little time to play the game that I enjoy. So yeah, HTFU because it is a game and it isn't that big of a deal. If you didn't know these types of changes were going to happen then you didn't read one thing about how CCP works.
No repecs, refunds or any other thing that allows win button chasers to have their way. There is and has been plenty of time to save SP, grow up and act like a man. I really do hope that CCP doesn't give a refund on our SP just so I can sit back and laugh at all the tears that will be dropped. I love this community but it is full of whiners and people who don't care about the game, they only care about themselves and their game.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
|
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1661
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 19:38:00 -
[35] - Quote
D legendary hero wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:If I ran a business to business (b2b) company, and changed the software I released to a customer drastically, making their organizations planning go to hell, then I would be in no other position than to give that customer good will, or I would probably be fined and lose said customer.
Refunding infantry SP is a matter of professionalism and good will to the customers. Imagine if all employees at customer of you business would have to write several page long threads to your company about the issue at hand, without any official response for several weeks. Could you Imagine how pissed off the management of the customer company would be?
Maybe you cant understand the above, because you are 18 or younger and haven't had a real job yet. This is my only interpretation of the anti respec HTFU crowd.. Get a fking job very nice analogy. For anyone who hasn't had a job yet. just remember, REAL MONEY is involved in this scenario. if your in college, its like taking courses in a given major then having the course canceled and the school debates over whether to transfer your credits... then having to plead with the chancelor's of the school to get your credits (SP) transfered to another school.
College credits don't always transfer.
I spent almost two years getting certified in networking and then the job market was flooded with networkers and I couldn't find a job. I had to go back to college and get a degree in electronics. It then took me almost a year to find a job because no one will hire someone straight out of college with no experience. I was turned down for jobs because I was over qualified or had no experience.
I took classes for electronics that I didn't have to have because the standards changed half way through my time at the school. I took classed in public speaking to become an electronics tech. Don't use college examples because they are just as bad as CCP.
[A]mong the 2,134 workers surveyed, 47 percent of college graduates did not find a first job that was related to their college major. What's more, 32 percent of college grads said that they had never worked in a field related to their majors. Source
[I] would have welcomed such a degree. My undergraduate alma mater, Northwestern University, would not allow me to transfer from their School of Speech (now School of Communication) into their renowned Medill School of Journalism, despite my then near-perfect GPA. Source
Should I go on?
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
|
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1663
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 19:54:00 -
[36] - Quote
D legendary hero wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:If I ran a business to business (b2b) company, and changed the software I released to a customer drastically, making their organizations planning go to hell, then I would be in no other position than to give that customer good will, or I would probably be fined and lose said customer.
Refunding infantry SP is a matter of professionalism and good will to the customers. Imagine if all employees at customer of you business would have to write several page long threads to your company about the issue at hand, without any official response for several weeks. Could you Imagine how pissed off the management of the customer company would be?
Maybe you cant understand the above, because you are 18 or younger and haven't had a real job yet. This is my only interpretation of the anti respec HTFU crowd.. Get a fking job very nice analogy. For anyone who hasn't had a job yet. just remember, REAL MONEY is involved in this scenario. if your in college, its like taking courses in a given major then having the course canceled and the school debates over whether to transfer your credits... then having to plead with the chancelor's of the school to get your credits (SP) transfered to another school.
Oh yeah, name one thing every that doesn't have money involved. Everything every person does has money involved be it actual money spent or in the form of time. I charge at least $25/hr and $100 just to show up, by that reasoning CCP owes me a paycheck for playing in the beta and working for them to test the game.
People pay money for games, I bought Skyrim for my ps3 and it was so borked up I couldn't even play it for more than an hour or two. I deserve a new game or money, GTA5 was junk and I played it for a few hours, I deserve compensation. Just because money was spent doesn't mean that you get what you wanted or what you thought you were getting because things change. If people had looked into how CCP works then they would have know what to expect. Ignorance is expensive and time consuming.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
|
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1663
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 19:55:00 -
[37] - Quote
Dustbunny Durrr wrote:I request that once CCP decides whether to give or not give respecs, could we also get confirmation for future respecs so that this whole bloody argument can be avoided in the future?
IE: "You are, or are not getting respecs now, but whine about it later down the line and we'll give them again/don't whine about it it in the future cuz you're not getting any more"
Something like that would solve the future respec whining issue.
And for those of you who don't remember, two weeks after the May 14th going live respec of dust 514 (ie: the respec all players were given once dust stopped being beta and went live) people were already clammering for another respec since they effed up their skills. It has happend in the past, and if not resolved now, WILL happen in the future.
yup
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
|
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1663
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 20:09:00 -
[38] - Quote
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote:refund everything except Flaylock skills. everyone knew it was FoTM and specced anyway.. make them live with it 
I just skilled into Flaylocks the other day. They are kind of fun but hard to use.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
|
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1663
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 20:35:00 -
[39] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:If I ran a business to business (b2b) company, and changed the software I released to a customer drastically, making their organizations planning go to hell, then I would be in no other position than to give that customer good will, or I would probably be fined and lose said customer.
Refunding infantry SP is a matter of professionalism and good will to the customers. Imagine if all employees at customer of you business would have to write several page long threads to your company about the issue at hand, without any official response for several weeks. Could you Imagine how pissed off the management of the customer company would be?
Maybe you cant understand the above, because you are 18 or younger and haven't had a real job yet. This is my only interpretation of the anti respec HTFU crowd.. Get a fking job Extremely well put, kind of my same thought too. It's not about who does or does not deserve it, it's about goodwill and professionalism. +1 Yeah because my degree in electronics isn't enough, I have had two or three jobs my entire life, I have two jobs right now. Some of you people are so well informed I am amazed that you even play a game like this. Thanks for coming off your high horse long enough to talk to the common folk. Okay, you are not one of the chest thumping HTFU teenagers on this forum. Grats to you sir! If you have a professional career you would be for a respec... whats wrong with you? You like wasting cash on a "concept" or "might be"?
I don't consider it a waste. I have had fun with the cash I spent. No different than going to a movie. Popcorn and drinks go in one thing and come out another, things change. I am no more concerned about what I spent on this game than I am about what I spent on Uncharted 3. That game was not as good as U2 and the multiplayer sucked on U3, I even bought the map packs -which were a waste- and I still don't really care because money is supposed to be spent on things you like or think you will like. They all can't be perfectly suited to my needs or wants.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
|
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1664
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 20:52:00 -
[40] - Quote
Galthur wrote:Only Heavy/Light Dropsuits and Sidearms, nothing else.
I would vote for all dropsuit SP to be refunded only if ALL racial suits are going to be released.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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|
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1664
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Posted - 2014.02.18 21:17:00 -
[41] - Quote
Awry Barux wrote:NextDark Knight wrote:Just saying,, since they talked about changing the dropsuit specs, I have saved up 4m sp. I hope you all without self controll get rewarded. I will be opening all my AUR / Contact Refund petition the moment a respect is confirmed cause being stuck with 300 of them damn things is just stupid. I've said this 1000 times before and I'll say it again: it is NOT the same thing for you proto-ed vets to save SP as it is for all of us <15mil plebes to save SP. You can perform your role at maximum efficiency while saving SP. For everyone else, we have to directly suffer in the short term (the short term being multiple months) in order to save for CCP's wild changes.
I just broke 16M and it isn't that bad.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
|
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1668
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 00:29:00 -
[42] - Quote
Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:If I ran a business to business (b2b) company, and changed the software I released to a customer drastically, making their organizations planning go to hell, then I would be in no other position than to give that customer good will, or I would probably be fined and lose said customer.
Refunding infantry SP is a matter of professionalism and good will to the customers. Imagine if all employees at customer of you business would have to write several page long threads to your company about the issue at hand, without any official response for several weeks. Could you Imagine how pissed off the management of the customer company would be?
Maybe you cant understand the above, because you are 18 or younger and haven't had a real job yet. This is my only interpretation of the anti respec HTFU crowd.. Get a fking job Extremely well put, kind of my same thought too. It's not about who does or does not deserve it, it's about goodwill and professionalism. +1 Yeah because my degree in electronics isn't enough, I have had two or three jobs my entire life, I have two jobs right now. Some of you people are so well informed I am amazed that you even play a game like this. Thanks for coming off your high horse long enough to talk to the common folk. No. I paid for a service that was changed from the results I paid for. The proper thing to do is either refund the actual money or refund the service to be used for the RESULTS it was purchased for. Thats why its either refund the money or refund the SP. And since the money has been SPENT by CCP. That leaves: REFUND THE SP.
No one said the service was forever and ever. You received your service for the money you spent. The phone company changed from unlimited data to anything over 4GB is slowed down. I didn't want that service, ask for that service or even like what it has to offer but I have to take it. It is called life. Also, I am pretty sure somewhere in the agreement you agreed to there is a sentence that states they CCP had the right to change anything they want at anytime they want without notice. That sentence makes any and all monetary validated repecs null and void. You agreed and therefore they have your money and can do what they want. There is no legal issue here, it is all up to CCP.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1668
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Posted - 2014.02.19 00:38:00 -
[43] - Quote
Charlotte O'Dell wrote:Hi, I'm a vet. I have 28 mil SP. I have proto CALLOGI/ASSAULT, tanks shields/rails, equipment, MD, CR, and RR.
I can save SP for months and not be affected. I newb saving is losing a lot more than I do BC I already have more gear than I use in a day. No respec hurts the new players, not vets, and respects always bring back old players. There is no way, from a business standpoint, that respects can be a bad thing.
It may bring them back but CCP will do the same thing that drove them away from the game.
From a business standpoint:
It takes time and manpower to read the forums and listen to the players about respecs.
It takes time and manpower to do the actual work needed to do the refunds.
If any refunds aren't handed out properly then it takes even more time and money.
It takes time and money to think of the rule of a respec and then explain them to use.
It will cause players to ask for more respecs.
It goes against one of the major selling points of New Eden in that choices do matter. (I understand that the game has and will changed but it still doesn't mean choices matter because they still do and still will.)
It causes frustration and consternation among players and CCP staff.
Lastly, it is emotionally taxing, the devs care about the game and are trying hard to make a great game and I would say any extra stress is a bad thing.
Business is about money but it also about passion and seeing your vision come to life. Not all companies only see the bottom dollar line. Artist are a prime example, most don't do it for the money because they love what they are doing.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1670
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Posted - 2014.02.19 02:51:00 -
[44] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:
A few people doing that doesn't hurt the game that much, if at all.
Create a culture where your players at BEST don't talk much about your game, and you'll go the way of the MAG, with less of an impact.
I fully support talking with your money. I know it may seem hypocritical but they should make the game better, again, the problem lies in content and how it interacts with each other and the players. If CCP doesn't respect the players the game will fall off and go down the drain but at the same time they can't kowtow to players. There has to be a line that where CCP makes a decision and sometimes they will be really bad and sometimes they are genius. It is a total roll of the dice because they can't please everyone. This is a slow burn game and if we rush things too much it will die just as quickly as if we went too slow.
We need a stable core of suits, weapons, modules and skills and giving refunds and changing the core stats has to stop soon or we are dead in the water. It is a hard road for a team that hasn't ever made a PS3 shooter.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1670
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 03:25:00 -
[45] - Quote
D legendary hero wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:D legendary hero wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:If I ran a business to business (b2b) company, and changed the software I released to a customer drastically, making their organizations planning go to hell, then I would be in no other position than to give that customer good will, or I would probably be fined and lose said customer.
Refunding infantry SP is a matter of professionalism and good will to the customers. Imagine if all employees at customer of you business would have to write several page long threads to your company about the issue at hand, without any official response for several weeks. Could you Imagine how pissed off the management of the customer company would be?
Maybe you cant understand the above, because you are 18 or younger and haven't had a real job yet. This is my only interpretation of the anti respec HTFU crowd.. Get a fking job very nice analogy. For anyone who hasn't had a job yet. just remember, REAL MONEY is involved in this scenario. if your in college, its like taking courses in a given major then having the course canceled and the school debates over whether to transfer your credits... then having to plead with the chancelor's of the school to get your credits (SP) transfered to another school. College credits don't always transfer. I spent almost two years getting certified in networking and then the job market was flooded with networkers and I couldn't find a job. I had to go back to college and get a degree in electronics. It then took me almost a year to find a job because no one will hire someone straight out of college with no experience. I was turned down for jobs because I was over qualified or had no experience. I took classes for electronics that I didn't have to have because the standards changed half way through my time at the school. I took classed in public speaking to become an electronics tech. i can identify with this. I too have studied electronics. and every job i have had since college has been stuff i taught myself...
I had to take micro processor programming I&II and then they dropped it down to just micro processor programming I and the next semester it was totally removed. That class was hard becasuse programming at the bit level is difficult and time consuming. I payed money for those classes and the books, I spent an hour a day 5 days a week for like 13 weeks on something that I have never even used. It did help in some PLC classes I had but it wasn't anything I couldn't have overcome. Digital makes a little bit more sense and things like flags and watchdogs made more sense afterwards.
Motorola M68HC11 The PDF is 650 pages and really dry but interesting. It will bring back memories if you have ever programmed bit level code and had to pop things on and off the stack.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1670
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 03:56:00 -
[46] - Quote
Mine is in industrial control and robotics, I helped develop the curriculum for the instructional robots and get them certified by FUNAC to teach robotics with their machines. I had a bunch of computer and networking classes in the late 90's but the field was so flooded that I couldn't even get an interview.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1671
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 03:59:00 -
[47] - Quote
Awry Barux wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:Awry Barux wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:This is one of the few instances where the FOTM argument doesn't apply (I am big time proponent of that argument, btw... Those flaylock wielding cal logis can suck it...). Racial parity is the only legitimate reason for one.
Dropsuit skills should be refunded, no question.
Core upgrades, a decent argument could be made either way. IMO core skills are never really wasted, but whatever.
Weapons.... Hmm.. I'm not sure about weapons. I'm inclined to say no because it should wait until more racial weapons come out. Mostly I think that once the remaining heavy weapons come out, that's the right time. Each race has a pretty decent selection of light weapons right now and tbh they are not nearly the SP sink that dropsuit or core skills are. Core skills can totally be wasted. Armor modules on my cal scout? No thanks. Proto nanohives for my sentinel? Also no. Shield modules for my Gal heavy? Again, wasted. Huh? So if you run cal scouts and gal heavies you need both shields and and armor. (I know what you really mean) More seriously, are you really not going to use any armor modules at all on Caldari suits? Ever? Not even if they fix reactives/ferroscales? Yeah, sure, eventually- but if the point is that we're re-doing our SP choices due to drastic changes in suit functionality, upgrades need to be re-chosen too. I can change my suit to a Cal suit, but if I'm a month away from having proto shield extenders (because what armor tanker would even touch that tree?), that's a brutal wait. The whole issue could be avoided by just giving a core upgrade respec. Also, my point about equipment stands.
I am a armor man but I still skilled all shields to five. I don't consider it a waste at all. I don't use them often but when I do it is nice to have.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1675
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 14:10:00 -
[48] - Quote
FarQue FromAfar wrote:the content not being delivered
This week was the third time I have ever hit the cap, I am about as casual as it gets. I don't have time to play and I haven't paid money in about a year. It is not about leet vets not wanting people to have good suits. You are correct in that the problem is content. Yes, I am against refunds but if the all the racial suits are released at one time then I do think now is a good time to refund dropsuit SP. I believe in rewarding players with time spent in game and those players should have an advantage over someone who has been here two weeks.
It is not leet mentality, it is a reward for playing. The problem is content, we don't have enough and CCP needs to get the core line up of suits worked out so that they can say no more respecs.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1675
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Posted - 2014.02.19 14:14:00 -
[49] - Quote
Marc Rime wrote:Awry Barux wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:I am a armor man but I still skilled all shields to five. I don't consider it a waste at all. I don't use them often but when I do it is nice to have. Hmm. If I had done that, I would consider it a waste. Or, not a waste, but a huge opportunity cost- that SP could have gone other, more useful places, like electronics/engineering. Maxing both has the added benefit of making you somewhat more resilient to balance changes. I did it for that very reason. It would appear that a lot of people chose not to, and instead dumped all their SP into whatever the forums said was best at the moment, that's their choice -- a choice they, for some reason, now wish to undo.
Pretty much how I feel.
I do think heavy and light frames should get refunded even if they tell the rest of us to suck it up. Lights and heavies didn't have the variety of choices mediums had so it would be fair to them to give a refund on those.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
|
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1675
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 14:24:00 -
[50] - Quote
501st Headstrong wrote:Yes to a respec. Reasons being:
1. People have been witing years forcontent, but were forced to allign with other gear. Case and poijt: Minmatars running Amarr heavies. I am a major fan of Lore and this bugs me. A Respec will allow me to fufill my Raciql Inventory
2. People will always skill into FOTM, but to survive. Some say tyey did this with the Flaylock, and now everyone runs RRs? Guess what, the description of the RR says it is thr best rifle to date. All we want CCP is the choice to Spec ijto what we want
3. We refuse to wait for our new, very likely buggy suits when we are wwiting for this update, and years before that. A respec will sait us
4. So what if we cry in the future.If people scree this up, you at least know you gave us the opporutuniity. It hasbeen very long since we lived with those mistakes.
5. A full Respec can allow Avrs to change if thry have given up on it, allow Gallente to spec iinto We mor fully instead of shieldd, and more. Dont beat around thr bush
6. If I get a full 13 million is SP respec, I will go Proto. Not to stomp players thoigh, but to have a viable suit to counter those who would tty and stomp me. Many ppl cant geneate billions of Isk in PC. Please allow us to at least have thr capacity to fight back.
7. It's a nice thing to do considering 15 of these 17 current pages are good arguents for a Respec, and the rest are weak.
8. "CCP never gIves Respecs" They are givin me all my suits now along with new equipment and weapons. Also, respecs have been given before.
9. "Proplr knew thr Flaylock pistol was OP and skilled into it anyway" Thry did it in hopes of killing thr other guy before they died. Also, CCP doesnt release OP weapons that people csn tell by. I will happily atgue about How the weapons of Dust fit together in trrms of Countering, start up another thread. Full respec for all who do what it takes to survive, and lose what they are in thr process. Ex: HMG use to beweak. Heavies use AR. People cty about a problem thry caused, along eith lack of Anti Infantry HWs.
10. You have a majoritg of players that want a respec, and a rrfudal will alienate thrm. Majority rules CCP, so please appease hs. Or I assure you thr next big Update will have your biggest ultimatum: Repec now sincr you didnt give us one in 1.8 or I rrfuse ti play this gam.
There's 10 points why to give a respec. Any disputers? And yes, I will debate you on this. Sorry about Spelling mistakes, typing this onthr Vta :)
I know your pain on the VITA.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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|
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1675
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Posted - 2014.02.19 14:52:00 -
[51] - Quote
Marc Rime wrote:
In all fairness you might want to give up all the progress you earned while wearing that suit too, in that case.
Never thought of that one, I will have to keep that on tap. Very good job and thank you.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1682
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 11:02:00 -
[52] - Quote
D legendary hero wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Awry Barux wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:My .02 ISK:
Only dropsuit fitting skills (dropsuit command and the skills branching from it) need to be refunded, because their entire functions are changing.
Weapons, even with nerfs and buffs, still function the same way as they did before, so they should NOT be refunded. It's not a matter of nerfs and buffs, it's a matter of achieving weapon-suit synergy. You have your weapon of choice and the play style that goes with it. Now you can choose your dropsuit based off of that. Nobody picks a dropsuit first before trying to base a play-style off of it, besides people experimenting with underpowered suits. how do you use a weapon without a dropsuit first?isn't tht impossible?
A merc can get fairly far without skilling into a suit. Starter fits are prefit but customizable and spending SP in suit module and weapons upgrades is a smart thing to do and can save people some growing pains.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
|
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1682
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 18:54:00 -
[53] - Quote
If I had a crystal ball and you put RR to my head and told me to tell you what the future holds then I would say that we are getting dropsuit SP back if all the suits are release. No sacrifice needed, it its going to happen. I just like to be able to debate people over it. I like a challenge and fighting for the team that is losing or is going to lose is fun to me. I like winning but there is nothing to be won here because I think the choice has already been made. I would be shocked if CCP didn't already know what they are doing, they aren't inept. They just do things differently than non CCP people.
All sacrifices should be in the form ISK and addressed to The Robot Devil. No sacrifices are too large but any under 100K ISK could be consider an insult and are could cause your corp to be beshrewed.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
|
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1682
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 18:58:00 -
[54] - Quote
jordy mack wrote:Any input ccp?
The sooner u tell ppl what's being respeced, the sooner ppl can experiment with different stuff intead of grinding away for prof 5.
Giving ppl a better overall idea of different roles and what they want to specialize in long term.
I realize everything is changing next update but I'm sure newer players especially would appreciate the chance to try something different.
Please, talk to us.
This is how CCP rolls and it is one way they troll us. We need to get all this pent up respec energy out before they tell us anything.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1684
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Posted - 2014.02.20 19:01:00 -
[55] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:I just want a timetable for the rest of the racial hulls and turrets, and a timetable for the pilot suits.
My SP will be 100% pilot.
I wouldn't hold my breath for any type of public time table because it induces too much rage and speculation. They may confirm it to be on a one or two year road map but they will probably never give us a time table. We can't handle the truth.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1684
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 19:12:00 -
[56] - Quote
Wouldn't it be funny if 1.8 was all back end changes and they didn't release any suits till 5/14. I would fall over dead laughing.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1684
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 19:19:00 -
[57] - Quote
ESO? I am not getting it, sorry.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1684
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Posted - 2014.02.20 19:26:00 -
[58] - Quote
I totally forgot about that one. Thanks. Skyrim made me so mad I said I would never play a Bethesna game again. They took my money and knowingly handed me a complete piece of crap. I knew the game would be buggy but never imagined it to be that bad. So I seriously doubt I will mess with it.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1684
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 19:40:00 -
[59] - Quote
Bethesda makes fun games but they are very buggy. Fallout and The Elder Scrolls are good games but they are frustrating to play but the Skyrim thing is pretty unforgivable to me. They knew, hid it and then sold it while collecting money. I put my hours into it and got my money's worth but I am still mad. I understand that the PS3 is difficult and I can see how just by looking at the CPU architecture that it would take practice to write good code but they didn't even seem to try. Lots of developers write decent enough code to put out a PS3 title and they could have at least went to Sony and asked for help. Oh yeah, they did and it was fixed in a couple of months (I don't actually remember how long but I am thinking is was under three)
Some of you may ask why do I play DUST when it has as many problems as it does. There are a lot of reasons why they are different and I will list them if you like. Just ask, I apparently have no problem splorking my junk opinions or incorrect assumptions on these forums.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1695
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 23:02:00 -
[60] - Quote
calvin b wrote:Respec a 10000000000% Please for the love that is Holy. Please, please, please. I want the role I wanted from the beginning and when the new suits drop I can have what I wanted. So please give me a respec so I can play the role I want to play. CCP please.
Prayer. The last refuge of a scoundrel. Lisa Simpson
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1695
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Posted - 2014.02.20 23:16:00 -
[61] - Quote
We need to make a good pro and con list real quick
Pro Con
Helps noobs Noobs don't have enough SP to matter
Helps everyone Players can FotM
Everything changed - suit SP Suits are changing but can still be used
Everything changed - IRL $ spent You got what you paid for if you have already used the weapon or booster
Diversity FotM is not diversity
Attract and keep new blood SP isn't to blame for NPE, content and training is
Vets come back and stay CCP releases borked gear and the vets will flock to the new OP and still quit b/c borked
Choices don't matter Lore
"I made bad choices" Respec doesn't help igornace /stupidity
"I want to try something new" Try doesn't mean proto, trying is level 1 or 2
Add to the list, I can be swayed either way. Someone told me once that a lawyer never asks a question that they don't know the answer to.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1699
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Posted - 2014.02.21 02:03:00 -
[62] - Quote
Sam Tektzby wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:We need to make a good pro and con list real quick
Pro
Helps noobs
Helps everyone
Everything changed - suit SP
Everything changed - IRL $ spent
Diversity
Attract and keep new blood
Vets come back and stay
Choices don't matter
"I made bad choices"
"I want to try something new"
Con
Noobs don't have enough SP to matter
Players can FotM
Suits are changing but can still be used
You got what you paid for if you have already used the weapon or booster
FotM is not diversity
SP isn't to blame for NPE, content and training is
CCP releases borked gear and the vets will flock to the new OP and still quit b/c borked
Lore
Respec doesn't help igornace /stupidity
Try doesn't mean proto, trying is level 1 or 2
Add to the list, I can be swayed either way. Someone told me once that a lawyer never asks a question that they don't know the answer to. There is no cons, how you can put decission of CCP put in cons. Their Fault are their faults and fais. That not about RESPEC. RESPEC itself is help in big implements and changes to game. If they make bad decission and players ergo COMMUNITY are damaged by it, there should be ..wait there MAY be a chance to overcome that by respec. COMMUNITY cant be PUSHED to something what wasnt their IDEA. Thats pure nonsence. BTW dividing playerbase only on Vets and Noobs is not good at all, thats frst thing. Second one FOTM is again a CCPs fault (they made issue in balacings not the players). Suits will have different Impact with new implements, what is another reason VOTING for RESPEC. And finally. ONLY IGNORANCE AND STUPIDITY IS AGAINST RESPEC
I love this thread. I wish they had done this a long time ago.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1705
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 18:55:00 -
[63] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:DUST 514 is real life, and in real life you cannot change what you know
No respecs ever because then DUST wouldn't be real life and I would be forced to cancel my EVE subscription and rain tears upon the internet over how CCP ruined my real life with their respec.
Still here? I have been watching from the shadows. They are all the same arguments and reasons we have had since the game was released almost one year ago. Same, exact thing over and over and over and over... Nothing new or fun. Both sides have valid points and both sides have junk points. This thread quit making me laugh so I thought I would throw another nugget out there for my fans to read and rage about.
DUST is set in a persistent universe in which time (except TiDi) moves at this universe's time. Things in that universe, even in DUST, may not tangibly real but it is real and it is real life, my wife plays Roller Derby and her alter ego there is just as real as our alter egos are here. People know us by our opinions and our in game actions and when you boil it down to the the very basics the most important thing real people have is time. Our time in this game makes it real because that is all we really have as real people is time. Time spent in this game for some is the same amount as it would take to get an associate's degree. We shouldn't invalidate peoples time by saying it isn't real life because it is. You are right, you cannot change what you know but you can add to it and that is as real as it gets.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
|
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1705
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 19:09:00 -
[64] - Quote
Awry Barux wrote:Aikuchi Tomaru wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Just confirm the respec CCP.
You know there is an overwhelming case in favour, given that you are changing how pretty much every combination of suit, weapons, and upgrades works. Sometimes even the playstyle is changing fundamentally, as with the minlogi.
You can also see that there is a massive majority in favour, and that you'll lose a lot of players if you don't do it. After the vehicle-only respec and months of invincible tanks, no infantry respec really would the last straw for a lot of infantry. What they see is a loud minority. In a poll which was hold not too long ago barely anybody cared about respecs. The entire forums is only a loud minority, as is the subset of people who would take the time to fill out a poll on Dust. The fact is, players from every segment of the game's population have come out to support respecs, and that is as close to a majority mandate as we can come. As for the players who don't care enough to ever read the forums, I can't imagine any of them would be disappointed to log in after 1.8 to discover that the role overhaul and introduction of racial parity for suits came with a full infantry respec.
Of course they do and it is because every other game does it in one shape or another. No other game I am aware of does their universe like New Eden and people can't handle it. They want what they want and they want to change it when they want and New Eden doesn't always work that way.
"The entire forums is only a loud minority, as is the subset of people who would take the time to fill out a poll on Dust. The fact is, players from every segment of the game's population have come out to support respecs, and that is as close to a majority mandate as we can come."
A loud minority shouldn't rule, ever. The owner, best qualified, duly elected or a representative of majority should dictate what should happen. Democracies fail like communism, it looks good on paper and it works for a while but once the entity hits a certain age or population it fail cascades back to its roots or dies all together. Letting the players totally dictate this game is the worst mistake CCP could make. 10 years of EVE didn't come from players dictating game development, it came from players interacting with the developers.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
|
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1705
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 19:12:00 -
[65] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:DUST 514 is real life, and in real life you cannot change what you know
No respecs ever because then DUST wouldn't be real life and I would be forced to cancel my EVE subscription and rain tears upon the internet over how CCP ruined my real life with their respec. Still here? I have been watching from the shadows. They are all the same arguments and reasons we have had since the game was released almost one year ago. Same, exact thing over and over and over and over... Nothing new or fun. Both sides have valid points and both sides have junk points. This thread quit making me laugh so I thought I would throw another nugget out there for my fans to read and rage about. DUST is set in a persistent universe in which time (except TiDi) moves at this universe's time. Things in that universe, even in DUST, may not tangibly real but it is real and it is real life, my wife plays Roller Derby and her alter ego there is just as real as our alter egos are here. People know us by our opinions and our in game actions and when you boil it down to the the very basics the most important thing real people have is time. Our time in this game makes it real because that is all we really have as real people is time. Time spent in this game for some is the same amount as it would take to get an associate's degree. We shouldn't invalidate peoples time by saying it isn't real life because it is. You are right, you cannot change what you know but you can add to it and that is as real as it gets. There are two kinds of people I suppose
All I am saying is time spent makes it real. History isn't tangible either, we can't interact with it, change it or anything like that and we consider it real. Most of history isn't recorded in detail or on some piece of paper but that doesn't make it not real. Time is the only real thing we have because if you don't have time you are dead.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1705
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 19:34:00 -
[66] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:snip I completely agree with you Robot, but the game was released too early and has too little content for this to be true IMO. If you didnt have any choices but one, how can you "live with your choices"? Im gonna compare this whole debate with buying a high end cell phone, it might not be exactly what you want in 3 years time (you-¦re looking for that extremely cool new cell phone with all those cool features). The difference between this example and Dust 514 SP is that the developers of the cell phone did not go in and downgrade your screen from 5" to 2", 64x48 pixel resolution instead of 720p and at the same time switching out the Cortex based microcontroller with a ****** 8 bit PIC MCU. You, who work with electronics, should understand this example clearly. Myself, I have a MSc Eng in ICT with specialization towards digital signal processing. I work with underground navigation systems.
If you want to get down to release we could argue that the weapons and suits are released in some type of lore way. I am not huge into lore so please forgive my blatant ignorance. Lets say we are the first few versions of clones and if the Amarr were the first to have this tech then they released the heavy suit, the other races developed suits to try to counter the heavy and that is why we only have a handful of tech and some have suits missing. They can make up any kind of lore they want as long as it goes with the main narrative. These new suits are the next generation of clone equipment and have new and different skill sets and attributes because the engineers of New Eden has seen the need for these suits in the past year.
Now that my BS is out of the way. I agree with a SP refund IF ALL THE SUITS are released at once or the skill is removed. If they are released or rebalanced one at a time then I don't think a refund is needed. A slow trickle and gradual change isn't that big of a deal but if they are going to change the entire bonus set and racial line up on one patch then they should give us the SP. It isn't fair that players wanted to play a race and couldn't but you know me, life isn't fair.
I just come to this thread to make people type because the amount of passion or the lack of thought amazes me. Don't get me wrong passion is good but we have to weed out passion from lack of thought. CCP reads all this splork and they will do what they want because it is their game. I really don't care if they give a refund or not, I just like arguing for NO RESPEC. It makes me smile. I like causing instantaneous, uncontrollable outburst of emotion. My friends either call me a pimp or the devil. I was called out by a palm reader in the middle of a Russian bizarre for being the devil when I was like 15 and was doing an exchange student kind of thing.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1705
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 20:07:00 -
[67] - Quote
I am contributing to the discussions, I just like to do it in a way they make people want to say something. I am not doing it just to make people mad. Little pokes.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1705
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 20:19:00 -
[68] - Quote
Awry Barux wrote:Rinzler XVIII wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:snip I completely agree with you Robot, but the game was released too early and has too little content for this to be true IMO. If you didnt have any choices but one, how can you "live with your choices"? Im gonna compare this whole debate with buying a high end cell phone, it might not be exactly what you want in 3 years time (you-¦re looking for that extremely cool new cell phone with all those cool features). The difference between this example and Dust 514 SP is that the developers of the cell phone did not go in and downgrade your screen from 5" to 2", 64x48 pixel resolution instead of 720p and at the same time switching out the Cortex based microcontroller with a ****** 8 bit PIC MCU. You, who work with electronics, should understand this example clearly. Myself, I have a MSc Eng in ICT with specialization towards digital signal processing. I work with underground navigation systems. If you want to get down to release we could argue that the weapons and suits are released in some type of lore way. I am not huge into lore so please forgive my blatant ignorance. Lets say we are the first few versions of clones and if the Amarr were the first to have this tech then they released the heavy suit, the other races developed suits to try to counter the heavy and that is why we only have a handful of tech and some have suits missing. They can make up any kind of lore they want as long as it goes with the main narrative. These new suits are the next generation of clone equipment and have new and different skill sets and attributes because the engineers of New Eden has seen the need for these suits in the past year. Now that my BS is out of the way. I agree with a SP refund IF ALL THE SUITS are released at once or the skill is removed. If they are released or rebalanced one at a time then I don't think a refund is needed. A slow trickle and gradual change isn't that big of a deal but if they are going to change the entire bonus set and racial line up on one patch then they should give us the SP. It isn't fair that players wanted to play a race and couldn't but you know me, life isn't fair. I just come to this thread to make people type because the amount of passion or the lack of thought amazes me. Don't get me wrong passion is good but we have to weed out passion from lack of thought. CCP reads all this splork and they will do what they want because it is their game. I really don't care if they give a refund or not, I just like arguing for NO RESPEC. It makes me smile. I like causing instantaneous, uncontrollable outbursts of emotion. My friends either call me a pimp or the devil. I was called out by a palm reader in the middle of a Russian bizarre for being the devil when I was like 15 and was doing an exchange student kind of thing. Reported For Trolling He's playing the role of devil's advocate, and playing it well. It's useful- he's helped refine the arguments as to why a respec is warranted. If CCP just saw a bunch of blathering on here, it likely wouldn't sway their opinion. But if CCP sees their internal arguments against one advanced by a forum member and then responded to in a logical, reasonable way, we may actually get what we want and deserve. Unwad thy panties.
Yes, there is always a purpose. It may be crazy but it has reason, we need less emotion and more thought. I bork things up sometimes, to err is human but I hope that I bring arguments to the table that weren't thought about by others and I enjoy reading ideas and thoughts others have. The community usually has the right answers but knowing which is the most right or best is the hard part.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
|
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1708
|
Posted - 2014.02.23 01:07:00 -
[69] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:All I am saying is time spent makes it real. History isn't tangible either, we can't interact with it, change it or anything like that and we consider it real. Most of history isn't recorded in detail or on some piece of paper but that doesn't make it not real. Time is the only real thing we have because if you don't have time you are dead. I don't know how that's relevant to anything in a video game. The only thing that matters is how much SP you have, because that's what you've worked for. If CCP wants to stop respec culture, then they need to stop shuffling around everyone's roles. It's one thing to nerf / buff things by a few % here and there. It's another thing entirely to continually show your player base that you don't even have a stable foundation to build upon. Show us that you're committed to making a persistent universe, and then we can talk about persistent decisions.
I 100% totally agree. Changing everything at once does make a repec almost mandatory. It all goes back to content. The suits weren't there and players weren't given an opportunity to choose what they wanted or liked. The worst part about a refund would be that about 4-6 weeks after deployment all the suits will probably change in some way and we are going to be back here. Been reading this topic for over a year now and it is the same thing over and over.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1713
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Posted - 2014.02.24 04:23:00 -
[70] - Quote
Agreed, this thread is for stubborn know it alls and whiners. It is only here to vent and stop RESPEC threads. It is a good place to keep all this garbage.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1717
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Posted - 2014.02.24 21:37:00 -
[71] - Quote
The only thing good to come out of this thread.
Great video. It really cracked me up.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1726
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Posted - 2014.02.27 05:59:00 -
[72] - Quote
This old thing is still going? Was all the racial heavy skill books on sisi?
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1732
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Posted - 2014.02.27 22:29:00 -
[73] - Quote
D legendary hero wrote:CCP 33 pages of support. with only 4 people against a respec. DUST fiend even made a video for god's sake. just confirm it. we all know you want to.
I still hope they don't just so I can sit back and laugh.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1733
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Posted - 2014.02.28 02:44:00 -
[74] - Quote
Sam Tektzby wrote:Tallen Ellecon wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:D legendary hero wrote:CCP 33 pages of support. with only 4 people against a respec. DUST fiend even made a video for god's sake. just confirm it. we all know you want to. I still hope they don't just so I can sit back and laugh. A respec would be nice, but it's unnecessary, and people begging for them here is almost as annoying as people on the EVE forums asking when Dust is going to be put on PC. I'd rather CCP not indulge them. Most annozing people is ignorant ones who thinks:"if something is not neccessary to me, its not neccessary for others", there is basicaly majority FOR respec and that important for game. I still wainting till some of antirespec boyos arive with some proper reason why RESPEC should not be made. But its still same story:"What i think i want.", nothing else and what is more important, nothing productive. And honestly how long you will sit back and laugh, if that majority just leave and you will be pushed to play game with smaller numbers and after some time game will be lost, servers close and all that just by no people in?! Respec can revamp community, if you are agains that you basicalz want to play dust alone and trust me, there is big amount of games on sigh.
You can give respecs all day long and it doesn't make the game better. If you want to grab new players and hold on to the ones you have then you need good content. Not constant respecs and tiny balance tweaks. Claiming that a respec will save the game is about as good as saying a respec will kill it. People want content to have fun with and the SP is one of the few pieces of content we have.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1746
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Posted - 2014.02.28 16:06:00 -
[75] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:D legendary hero wrote:CCP 33 pages of support. with only 4 people against a respec. DUST fiend even made a video for god's sake. just confirm it. we all know you want to. /thread
Noooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Where else will I get my daily dose of HTFU if you end the thread. Should be DUST Bastard.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1746
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Posted - 2014.02.28 16:22:00 -
[76] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:D legendary hero wrote:CCP 33 pages of support. with only 4 people against a respec. DUST fiend even made a video for god's sake. just confirm it. we all know you want to. /thread Noooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Where else will I get my daily dose of HTFU if you end the thread. Should be DUST Bastard. Shhhh, don't fight it. It will all be over soon 
That's what I tell my wife all the time. Just relax, it will be ok.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1746
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Posted - 2014.02.28 16:27:00 -
[77] - Quote
Tallen Ellecon wrote:
Instead of demanding respecs demand balance on all fronts first, because unless there is balance a respec is a very short term fix.......... to a problem that will remain in this game for the foreseeable future.
Sweet zombie Jesus I think he may be on to something. Want to make any bets on how long it will take for a respec thread after they give this one out? How long will it be before any thread is made for the reasons: It helps noobs, I messed up, things changed or they have give them out before? I want to say that within one month there will be three of the four.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1754
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Posted - 2014.02.28 16:55:00 -
[78] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Until CCP can show us that they are dedicated to providing a persistent experience, respecs are necessary and do no damage to the game. Your choices have no meaning when they are altered for you on the most fundamental level.
Until CCP can commit to their own rhetoric, they need to put customer satisfaction before roleplaying appeal.
This is the correct answer and the only correct answer. The thread should be locked now and all inquiries pointed to his post.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1757
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Posted - 2014.02.28 17:43:00 -
[79] - Quote
D legendary hero wrote:common 35 pages here we come. if we break 50 pages. repec is garunteed. robot devil can help with that. lets argue some more
Can't resist
Must type long winded three dollar word posts.
I am too busy thinking about how I would implement PC to be bothered by this thread but first I am going to find a fat girl to follow around to stick my needle in.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1767
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Posted - 2014.02.28 18:51:00 -
[80] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:D legendary hero wrote:common 35 pages here we come. if we break 50 pages. repec is garunteed. robot devil can help with that. lets argue some more Can't resist Must type long winded three dollar word posts. I am too busy thinking about how I would implement PC to be bothered by this thread but first I am going to find a fat girl to follow around to stick my needle in.
My PC idea
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1771
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Posted - 2014.02.28 20:45:00 -
[81] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:
The fear of FoTM is a fear of CCPs inability to balance their game. It's going to happen within the first few weeks, with or without a respec. This is all but guaranteed. The respec doesn't cause this issue, CCP does with their lack of foresight and inability to create properly balanced patches.
That ignores the question of magnitude. Will FotM happen even without a respec? Sure, of course it will. Will FotM happen anywhere near as much without a respec? Nope, not even a chance. Removal of the diversity of fits and gear on the field, as a respec will feed, causes other balance implications and problems as well within a rock-scissors-paper set up. Am I saying things are properly balance in the current game state? Nope. But that doesn't mean that it couldn't get worse or that consistent respecs won't feed into the underlying problems. It's worth mentioning however that a one time only dropsuit refund with the new suits coming out does make a fair amount of sense, but that's not the same thing as offering respecs (it's not repeated, and it's not plural, plus it doesn't give everyone the option to dump all their points into the new "I Win" weapon). Offering respecs doesn't cause FotM, but it does make it more pervasive, thus making all of the problems with it bigger. Respecs also don't solve the game balance issues, even if they make them less bothersome to a portion of the player base there by drawing attention away from the core problem. Not having a solid, and yes balanced, skill system guts a huge part of Dust, and offering repeated respecs effectively cuts most of that system out of the game. Does the current iteration of the system need work? Absolutely. Are respecs a solution to that shortcoming? Absolutely not. 0.02 ISK Cross
yes
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1794
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Posted - 2014.03.03 04:52:00 -
[82] - Quote
If you want my advice on how to run it then you should start running starter fits now and keep running starter fits till about two or three weeks after the patch is released and in the wild. By that time the notes don't really matter and the nerf/buff cycles will have started. I am going to wait till then to start trying to figure out my fits. It took nine months to get where we are now so don't fool yourself into thinking it may be different this time. I will read the notes the day they come out but I don't even consider them to correct at all, again just speaking from track record. I enjoy CCP games but we have to be honest but they do things differently.
I don't get too wound up about things that they say they want to release because they think big and take risks and sometimes it makes them look inept or like they don't listen. With big risks come big rewards and that is how they do it. I am telling you that if you don't care about what is coming up then it is hard to be disappointed when it is all borked up. This is a long haul, slow burn game and you have to be ready for it and the bumps that come with it. If it was COD or any other traditionally released game I would completely understand the need for quicker announcements and tweaks. Don't expect them to deviate from their track record.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1794
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 04:55:00 -
[83] - Quote
Vakki Yuki wrote:Brian LaFleur wrote:CCP, please explain the decision making process the Dev team goes through. We've been waiting on some word but we don't get any. This is why there are multiple threads on the subject because it seems to be the only way to get a response from you. Maybe a reddit thread? Or 4chan /b/? Just a theory, but it's possible that the respec has been confirmed on the inside, but devs are not allowed to comment yet for fear that people might go bonkers with their skills and suits more than they already are. Either way, I think I speak for us all when I say please tell us something. Anything. Tell us it's still unconfirmed. At least we'll know. Consider it a show of good faith. Tell us the cow jumped over the moon, at least we'll know we're not being blatantly ignored.
Don't let the bunnies out of the bag because we multiply fast. Let them work, it will be ok.
Here take a cookie.
I promise, by the time you're done eating it you'll feel right as rain.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1797
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Posted - 2014.03.03 06:27:00 -
[84] - Quote
Dj grammer wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Vakki Yuki wrote:Brian LaFleur wrote:CCP, please explain the decision making process the Dev team goes through. We've been waiting on some word but we don't get any. This is why there are multiple threads on the subject because it seems to be the only way to get a response from you. Maybe a reddit thread? Or 4chan /b/? Just a theory, but it's possible that the respec has been confirmed on the inside, but devs are not allowed to comment yet for fear that people might go bonkers with their skills and suits more than they already are. Either way, I think I speak for us all when I say please tell us something. Anything. Tell us it's still unconfirmed. At least we'll know. Consider it a show of good faith. Tell us the cow jumped over the moon, at least we'll know we're not being blatantly ignored. Don't let the bunnies out of the bag because we multiply fast. Let them work, it will be ok. Here take a cookie. I promise, by the time you're done eating it you'll feel right as rain. Can I have a Snickers instead?
Matrix reference but sure as long as you eat it with a knife and fork.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
|
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1811
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 17:23:00 -
[85] - Quote
Tallen Ellecon wrote:Storm Shelton wrote:I'm just tired of having to change my ck.0 Logistics fit. I've had to re-fit many times due to CCP nerfing this and buffing that.
I just wanna be a ck.0 bro... :(
I just wanna rep, rez, dish out hives & uplinks. (Screw scanners)
It seems like I can actually only enjoy playing the game for a few months at a time. I get my suit fixed and then another patch comes along that completely destroys my balance. I redesign a likable fit, And then the vicious circle repeats.
*smh*
But you know how we Caldari peeps are: We love that Nerfbat! (HIT ME AGAIN!!!) >:I
But if I did get a respec, I think I would stay at ck.0. I already have 3 million SP ready to go for 1.8. I'm interested about Caldari Scouts, But that is all. All my equipment/armor/shields are at 5, except for scanners. Core upgrades are done except some bio stuff, So there is really nothing left for me to improve my Logi equipment. Cloaks seem interesting as well and makes me feel like I'll have a Nanosuit from Crysis. For a weapons respec, I would get out of AR completely and finish up CR.
I have carefully placed each point into things that reflect the improvement of actions I take in-game. Respec or not, CCP, You are still killing me with Logistics nerfs. No matter what, I know I'll have CCP to remind me that every SP investment is great now, Sucks later and I am always.... always, always, always.... WRONG>Redo>Refit>*smh* Support Lgosi's were screwed the second they gave us more CPU/PG and slots than any other suit, in a game where mods make a suit.
The truth will out. The logi and assault suit should be almost the same in every way except bonuses and equipment slots so yes they shot themselves in the foot by trying to create a logi class with a suit that is better than any other. I believe it was short sightedness and lack of experience both of which can be fixed.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
|
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1811
|
Posted - 2014.03.03 23:28:00 -
[86] - Quote
When they said this is official release we came out of beta. Doesn't matter what you think or feel the game is released because they say it is and they own it.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
|
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1816
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Posted - 2014.03.04 16:32:00 -
[87] - Quote
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:When they said this is official release we came out of beta. Doesn't matter what you think or feel the game is released because they say it is and they own it. No ones saying they cant call it what they want, same as you can call your large c l I t a p e n I s, still you must sit to pee.... Samething here, ok they are calling it, a released version, but use some logic and commom sense and what is it? Yes a tiny tiny beta, like, your c l I t.
Yeah your are correct.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
|
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1823
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 11:21:00 -
[88] - Quote
Rami Hamilo wrote:Draco Cerberus wrote:Many of you may have seen some of my posts opposed to the proposed LOGI changes for 1.8 and I think it is easy enough to find them, so I will keep this short. I want to keep the built in armor repairer, that said the Minmatar Hacking bonus was why I got the skills for the suit in the first place. CCP thanks for figuring out, a year into the full release after telling us that No More Respecs are going to happen, what "appropriate bonuses" for LOGI are. This left everyone no choice but to skill FOTY. From what I understand, the changes are slated to cover weapon balance, suits, and equipment. That sounds like all areas. Give us our SP back for all things Suit, Weapon, and Upgrade related. You have decided to change everything so it is time for a choice to be available. While you are at it you can also give us all the isk we have spent on assets back to cover our losses due to dev choices which have made this patch such a fail in terms of timeliness, game preservation, balance and KISS principle (Keep Itthe Same Stupid). CCP, don't be this Guy. Give a full respec. I could do so much with 30.6 million SP. If Logi are going to be nerfed so hard that we have not only stand right next to a heavy, but all of our other equipment is nerfed, I want to go heavy and scout. Also, bring back the promethius.
Sticking with #logilove FTW and because I am a really bad shot.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1823
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 11:30:00 -
[89] - Quote
The only thing noted so far is some weapon stuff, don't get down yet. It is difficult to produce the next version of dropsuits, we are very picky.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1829
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 13:19:00 -
[90] - Quote
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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|
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1833
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Posted - 2014.03.05 13:39:00 -
[91] - Quote
I go natural, no need for makeup. If I had more hair I would be unstoppable, I guess I need to HTFU and just accept nearly perfect.
Men want to be me and women think they can change me.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
|
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1833
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 14:00:00 -
[92] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:Brian LaFleur wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:Total remake of suits reminds me of Sony actually. First gen PS3s had the option to run linux (OpenOS). I remember that many scientists were very excited about this for supercomputing cluster at the time.
Then, Sony removed this feature with a system update (Firmware). How do you think the people felt that bought hundred PS3s for their projects?
Sony got sued by several parties in the US, but they were never brought before justice.
CCP dont 'do a Sony' please. I know exactly of what you speak. Then GEOHOT jail broke it, then Sony sued GEOHOT, then anonymous took down the PSN for a month+. Ah, 2011.... what a year.... Sony are true cunts. But they do make good products. Its kind of like Apple. Back on topic. You didnt see the people getting scammed by Sony jumping around, thumping their chests and telling everyone to HTFU like the brainwashed gorillas on this forum.
SONY did that to themselves. They developed a console that was backwards compatible, full of new tech and what customers wanted. Customers didn't like the price so they scaled back the PS3 to make it more affordable. Putting a different OS on the PS3 enabled pirates and game companies didn't like it. Consumers may pay the bills but they don't always want what is best.
All the people who wanted to make supercomputers needed to do was not update the firmware, it's not like they were playing PS games. PS3 is a beast and if it had more memory that was in one large pool it would have been unstoppable. SONY said that they made it difficult to program for on purpose so it wouldn't be maxed out on the first day and it could last years. I guess they can't win them all. SONY makes the best electronics, they often use more ICs to do the same thing as other companies because the output quality is better than with fewer components. To be honest they use better components in cheaper electronics and more components that are slower in their more expensive stuff. Why? This is was told to my face by a SONY engineer, because they want their inexpensive electronics to work as well as their expensive electronics.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1834
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Posted - 2014.03.05 14:10:00 -
[93] - Quote
SILVERBACK 02 wrote:
METAL GEAR SOLID 1
Probably the best game ever made and if not then it has the best boss battles of any game.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1837
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Posted - 2014.03.05 14:45:00 -
[94] - Quote
Mordecai Sanguine wrote:SOCOM + suppressor
I can beat every MG with that weapon unless the boss requires a different one. I can also do it with a tranq gun on any difficulty level except European Extreme, with out killing anyone-even bosses. MG is the one game that I can say that I am truly really good at. I love those games. I haven't played Revengence yet but it isn't a traditional MG.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1842
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Posted - 2014.03.05 20:13:00 -
[95] - Quote
Western Ways wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Mordecai Sanguine wrote:SOCOM + suppressor I can beat every MG with that weapon unless the boss requires a different one. I can also do it with a tranq gun on any difficulty level except European Extreme, with out killing anyone-even bosses. MG is the one game that I can say that I am truly really good at. I love those games. I haven't played Revengence yet but it isn't a traditional MG. Finally picked up revengeance, and i gotta say i love taking those ibtches apart and snatchin the life out of them. but i gotta disagree with everyone here. Mgs3 snake eater ftw. that battle with the end is the best boss fight i ever had.
Fighting in that field is bad ass. For a long time I said all MG needed was a shotgun and a knife and we got them in 3. That game is really good. I beat The End with a shotgun, took me while but I did and I also put him to sleep and took his tags, like all the others. I agree that the game is good but the Psycho Mantis battle is the most unique fight I have ever played and it totally hooked me.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1853
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Posted - 2014.03.05 22:46:00 -
[96] - Quote
Just because you think they are core doesn't mean they are. All the ships in EVE weren't there from the beginning. Feeling that the core isn't here doesn't justify anything. DUST left the BETA when they released it a year ago.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1855
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Posted - 2014.03.05 23:13:00 -
[97] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Just because you think they are core doesn't mean they are. All the ships in EVE weren't there from the beginning. Feeling that the core isn't here doesn't justify anything. DUST left the BETA when they released it a year ago. Gallente / Caldari / Amarr / Minmatar Light frames / Medium Frames / Heavy Frames (with basic variants of each) These are core content. You're welcome to try to use roleplaying as a shield against this fact, but it's a fact regardless.
In your eyes but in CCP's eyes they were not core if they weren't released with the core. I can call cloaks core but that doesn't' mean they are. Don't get me wrong, I agree that they are core suits and weapons and should have been in the game but I disagree with that being a justification for refunds because any newly released item can be called a core item by us. There iare command nodes on the icon screen but not in the game, is that core? There are heavy and medium aircraft on the same screen but that does that meant hey are core? Pilot suit? Medium vehicles? My only point is that the "missing core" argument is a slippery slope. Nothing more than that.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1855
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Posted - 2014.03.05 23:14:00 -
[98] - Quote
I am not trolling, I am simply debating the validity of those types of arguments.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1856
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Posted - 2014.03.05 23:35:00 -
[99] - Quote
Agreed.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1859
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Posted - 2014.03.06 03:28:00 -
[100] - Quote
501st Headstrong wrote:Core or not we are getting these suits niw and deserve a chance to Spec into yhem immeditely without needing to save Sp for months. Thats thequvalent of saving to b a while not paying the rent in your apartment of you are a 13 million SP player like myself. im still getting what I need for a fully proto proto suit. It is being changed without my consent. I no longer want my suit. Forcing to stay with it is like imprisoning Mr in my apartment. Eventually I'll just leave or have a massive argument with my lanflo
This is the only reason that I feel like SP should be refunded and it is because the core isn't there, this type of situation where all suits are being changed and new suits that should have been there are being added ALL AT ONCE is the only time I agree with it. If the suits were to trickle out one or two at a time then I wouldn't even consider it but with is happening I think it is justified and is the right thing to do. I want every one to be treated fairly and some want to be a racial purist and the should be able to have it because it is what the game needs.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1861
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Posted - 2014.03.06 05:18:00 -
[101] - Quote
Tallen Ellecon wrote:When the game first came out everyone wasn't given a large pool of SP to instantly spec into whatever they wanted. Now that new suits are here why should they do that now. I've said it before and I'll say it again, respecs don't create balance, and they don't help anyone who starts playing after they are given. Nobody NEEDS a respec, they just really WANT one.
You are correct and they are not needed by the person but I think it is needed by the game. I do hate saying that. Giving players a large pool of SP is probably a bad idea because people will get hurt when buffed or nerfed. When they hand it out it is going to be very interesting, I am serious when I say I'm not going to put any SP anywhere for about two weeks or more. Pure starters, just for fun.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1862
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Posted - 2014.03.06 06:44:00 -
[102] - Quote
Only seven more pages
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1862
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Posted - 2014.03.06 07:51:00 -
[103] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:Tallen Ellecon wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:Unfortunately we didn't get a chance to redo the slots and PG/CPU for all the medium frames in Uprising 1.8. Expect those changes to come in a future update. So if we have a respec in 1.8, we should get one a month later as well? A slot layout change is a big deal. Im starting to think were not getting a infantry respec until the next expansion now. Manly due to the fact that mediums did not get slot layout changed. I will spec into gal scout for sure now. Bricktank 514.
The only reason I keep replying
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1881
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Posted - 2014.03.07 21:53:00 -
[104] - Quote
Brian LaFleur wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:FOTM won't go away because there's no respect. There will always be FOTM chasers. Why punish people who are getting their suits changed because some people will chase whatever is OP? If the Devs understood balance, FotM could be resolved. It's all math. I don't see how they can run a business while sucking so bad at it.
Because in game the math isn't straight forward like looking at a spread sheet. There are changing variables that make the maths come out differently when the math is live and not on paper.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1881
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Posted - 2014.03.07 22:15:00 -
[105] - Quote
Tallen Ellecon wrote:Rinzler XVIII wrote:Tallen Ellecon wrote:Open market can't work with respecs. We can't have a respec everytime they change stats. They should give them out when they change the tree or remove a skill. We all take the same risk. Invest in cores, and as I've always said "spec into something as if it was balanced". Wait until they change the medium suit slots, fix AV, and add Matari and Amarr vehicles, then I'll be on board with a respec until there is an open market.
Respecs don't bring real balance, they just allow everyone to go FOTM. After FOTM is nerfed people demand another, the cycle never ends, there is no stable market, there can be no EVE integration, then the game just becomes another bland shooter. Vets go FoTM anyway No 1.8 respec just allows the vets to monopolise and dominate even further .. the people it hurts the most are intermediate players with 5-16m SP I'm a vet with 0 SP in Flaylocks, tanks, or the Caldari Logi. 2/3 of my SP is in dropsuit core upgrades. I'm only proto in one suit and my most maxed weapon is the AR. Not having the option to respec means I'll fight harder for reasonable balance and diversity. A respec can only help anybody until the next update reshifts the balance. Vets will have an upper edge regardless, but having respecs doesn't encourage people with less SP to spend wisely. We should be demanding tiericide and balance before demanding respecs. I've stated it countless times it's a temporary fix that has long term negativr repercussions.
I have to agree, I have been here for a long time and I just now put SP into Flaylocks, I have no proto suits and only 2 proto weapons(SCR and LR, I never use) so saying that "Vets go FotM" is an assumption that is probably more incorrect than true. However I would like to see some data, if available, that points one way or the other.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1882
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Posted - 2014.03.07 22:39:00 -
[106] - Quote
Piraten Hovnoret wrote:
AL argument that is agsinst respec are plain and simple dumb.
Wy give tanks a full respec but not infantry?
Bla bla bla remaking the skill three, what the hel this is acactly the same thing.
Bla bla bla vets vill got fotm, WTF vets have a cuple of Miljon sp saved already they have 45+ miljon sp and they have al the sh-ít they need already.
I am done with this topic now if you are against respec your plain and simple mental.
Respec or I am done with this game haven't spent almost a year investing time and effort to get that thrown out the window over a patch.
I am going to start hiding all the people's post whom say they are going to quit so I can see how long they last.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1888
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Posted - 2014.03.08 01:25:00 -
[107] - Quote
Zaaeed Massani wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Piraten Hovnoret wrote:
AL argument that is agsinst respec are plain and simple dumb.
Wy give tanks a full respec but not infantry?
Bla bla bla remaking the skill three, what the hel this is acactly the same thing.
Bla bla bla vets vill got fotm, WTF vets have a cuple of Miljon sp saved already they have 45+ miljon sp and they have al the sh-ít they need already.
I am done with this topic now if you are against respec your plain and simple mental.
Respec or I am done with this game haven't spent almost a year investing time and effort to get that thrown out the window over a patch.
I am going to start hiding all the people's post whom say they are going to quit so I can see how long they last. I've already uninstalled.
Then I will hide all your posts because if you don't play then you shouldn't be contributing to any discussions and the ones you do add to should be ignored because you clearly don't care enough to play so why should your comments be regarded as anything but trolling or totally inaccurate because you don't play the game. Looks like you lost DUST514, if you come back to the forums or play after uninstalling because you are mad, stating that you quit or anything in that vein. DUST514 beat you. No need to respond because all of your post are hidden and considered useless if you don't play the game.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
|
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1891
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Posted - 2014.03.08 04:54:00 -
[108] - Quote
Malkai Inos wrote:Zaaeed Massani wrote:Well, perhaps I should have given some background. [...] No, no you really shouldn't. At the very least for your own sake.
Try not to ever post anything personal in game or on the forums because people are mean and they will use it against you.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1894
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Posted - 2014.03.08 06:33:00 -
[109] - Quote
Still love this thread. 50 pages soon and I mean soon, should we start betting on if we get a respec?
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1894
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Posted - 2014.03.08 07:08:00 -
[110] - Quote
Malkai Inos wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Still love this thread. 50 pages soon and I mean soon, should we start betting on if we get a respec? Half expect one. What i'm entirely sure about is that we will have this discussion again after every larger patch until CCP adopts a more incremental approach to balance. Respecs, or lack thereof, are not the issue, -never have been and they are no long term solution for anybody but those who disagree with a persistent skill tree by default. The feedback request stickies is where people should devote their energy into instead.
+1
This is one of the better posts in this thread and couldn't agree more. We need content and it should be suits and weapons, trading/market and PVE in that order with tweaks for balancing in all of them. I would encourage a two or three month per update target -about four a year- with as many hot fixes as they can get out in between.
Our focus, especially well know or veteran players, should be with new players and in the feedback section. I am bad at the feedback part because I feel like I am not good at the game so my feedback about mechanics isn't valid. That's why I usually hang in the general, I don't nerd out on games because it will burn me out. Fast. Kind of goes with the new player thing also.
I am a good logi and stick up for real #logilove so I speak up for logi things that are good ideas or really bad ones. I might start trying more to get new players in a squad so I am not a hypocrite, as far as my above paragraph. I am a loner and I don't like my voice on coms so it is difficult. I guess just HTFU an do it.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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|
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1905
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Posted - 2014.03.09 00:54:00 -
[111] - Quote
Vordred Knight wrote:has this thread finally died, You all was so close to hitting 50 only 4 more pages to go guess you all are exhausted huh?
It is difficult, I have been doing it for a while now. 50 here we come!
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1915
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Posted - 2014.03.11 20:03:00 -
[112] - Quote
Good post Tallen, I have said many of those same things before. I also have a problem with how people seem to want one just because something changes. Your are correct, that isn't and shouldn't be how it works.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1916
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Posted - 2014.03.11 20:39:00 -
[113] - Quote
Tallen Ellecon wrote: "if you can't run it in advanced why take it to proto"
I have always said "if you can't do it in advanced then you can't do it" but it is about the same.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1916
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Posted - 2014.03.11 20:42:00 -
[114] - Quote
Thinking of changing my signature again, should I stay with Fear and Loathing quotes or move on to something else. Fear and Loathing is one of the bet movies ever made but I kind of want something different, however there are a lot more quotes that would look good.
"You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1925
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Posted - 2014.03.12 18:42:00 -
[115] - Quote
http://dust514.com/news/blog/2014/03/dropsuits-of-uprising-1.8/
After lengthy discussions with the CPM and large amounts of community feedback, the decision has been made to refund all skill points currently spent in the Dropsuit Command tree to playersGÇÖ unallocated SP pools. So, if your preferred racial frame didnGÇÖt previously exist, youGÇÖll be able to switch to one of the newly available suit frames without penalty.
"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1925
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Posted - 2014.03.12 18:45:00 -
[116] - Quote
The 25th is the day. Now this thread can crawl back to the hole it came from and rot. CCP please lock this thread.
"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1925
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Posted - 2014.03.12 18:47:00 -
[117] - Quote
Malkai Inos wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:http://dust514.com/news/blog/2014/03/dropsuits-of-uprising-1.8/
After lengthy discussions with the CPM and large amounts of community feedback, the decision has been made to refund all skill points currently spent in the Dropsuit Command tree to playersGÇÖ unallocated SP pools. So, if your preferred racial frame didnGÇÖt previously exist, youGÇÖll be able to switch to one of the newly available suit frames without penalty. That's soooo 16:00pm EVE time. Get with the times, granpa.
I have been up for over 36 hours and the three hours I slept I missed it. I just want this thread locked or deleted.
"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1925
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 18:58:00 -
[118] - Quote
Vector territory? Level R?
I don't know what those mean! I am not good at sleeping so I don't know if me not understanding is sleep deprivation or me just being stupid, either way some mercs are going to be very happy.
Want to take bets on when the first new respec thread pops up after the 25th? - that is a serious request.
"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1925
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Posted - 2014.03.12 20:10:00 -
[119] - Quote
Went straight to pure QQ on this thread, guess I am done here. I am so tired of hearing you all cry for something and then crying more when you got it. Yeah I am going to say it...HTFU and don't bother with replying because I will not even know you did because I am un tagging this thread, my job here is done. Thank you and good night.
"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2055
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Posted - 2014.03.20 11:49:00 -
[120] - Quote
I know this isn't EVE. I am not stating that AV/vehicles are balanced. I understand there is a problem with AV. I understand that you think CCP doesn't listen or know how to balance things. I understand that you may believe that another patch may not come for a year. I know that the game has problems. I am not trying to say anything about balance, timely releases, quality of released content, competence of CCP or players or anything other than the following:
LOL this thing is still going. I didn't even think there would still be a horse to beat.
"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."
Raoul Duke
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