refund everything except Flaylock skills.

everyone knew it was FoTM and specced anyway.. make them live with it

Extremely well put, kind of my same thought too. It's not about who does or does not deserve it, it's about goodwill and professionalism.

+1

Yeah because my degree in electronics isn't enough, I have had two or three jobs my entire life, I have two jobs right now. Some of you people are so well informed I am amazed that you even play a game like this. Thanks for coming off your high horse long enough to talk to the common folk.

No.

I paid for a service that was changed from the results I paid for.
The proper thing to do is either refund the actual money or refund the service to be used for the RESULTS it was purchased for.

Thats why its either refund the money or refund the SP.
And since the money has been SPENT by CCP.

That leaves:
REFUND THE SP.

very nice analogy.

For anyone who hasn't had a job yet. just remember, REAL MONEY is involved in this scenario.

if your in college, its like taking courses in a given major then having the course canceled and the school debates over whether to transfer your credits... then having to plead with the chancelor's of the school to get your credits (SP) transfered to another school.

It is one thing to want a respec because you're just tired of the stuff you skilled into.

It is another thing to want a respec for new content since racial variants (especially for dropsuits) should have been there on release, but instead we were forced to spec into things that otherwise would not be our first choice to stay competitive because we weren't provided with all the options. This I think makes a respec completely justified, but its not the biggest reason.

Its a completely different thing when CCP is changing the stats, bonuses, and slot layouts of suits. Such big fundamental things completely invalidates our choices, like buying an expensive sports car, and then the manufacturers break into your garage, and change the car into an expensive tractor. The tractor may be a great tractor, but if you're a race car driver and not a farmer then you're screwed; in such a case, you would feel that a refund for that car is something you are entitled to, likewise I feel that the 1.8 changes mean that infantry deserve in an SP refund. This is the biggest reason why a respec is absolutely required.

The Minmatar logi is such an example.


I thought the idea that these big changes warranted a respec would be clear and obvious to CCP, but CPM member Hans Jagerblitzen has informed me that its not guaranteed yet. This should be a guaranteed thing, not a maybe.

For those worried about the favorite-of-the-month chasers, the respecs do not create the the problems, its poor balancing that leads to FoTMs; they will just get nerfed and re-balanced anyway.

The fundamental issue is our choices not being invalidated. Many have claimed to oppose respecs because they say they want our choices to have meaning and consequence, but our choices need to be informed decisions to be meaningful; an uninformed choice is as meaningful as a coin toss. If the information (slots, stats, bonuses) about the things we chose changes, then the choice is no longer informed and meaningful since the information we made our choices on is no longer true.

So yeah, respec for 1.8 please, for dropsuit command at the very least. Ideally all infantry skills. Here is why:

College credits don't always transfer.

I spent almost two years getting certified in networking and then the job market was flooded with networkers and I couldn't find a job. I had to go back to college and get a degree in electronics. It then took me almost a year to find a job because no one will hire someone straight out of college with no experience. I was turned down for jobs because I was over qualified or had no experience.

I took classes for electronics that I didn't have to have because the standards changed half way through my time at the school. I took classed in public speaking to become an electronics tech.

This is one of the few instances where the FOTM argument doesn't apply (I am big time proponent of that argument, btw... Those flaylock wielding cal logis can suck it...). Racial parity is the only legitimate reason for one.

Dropsuit skills should be refunded, no question.

Core upgrades, a decent argument could be made either way. IMO core skills are never really wasted, but whatever.

Weapons.... Hmm.. I'm not sure about weapons. I'm inclined to say no because it should wait until more racial weapons come out. Mostly I think that once the remaining heavy weapons come out, that's the right time. Each race has a pretty decent selection of light weapons right now and tbh they are not nearly the SP sink that dropsuit or core skills are.

i can identify with this. I too have studied electronics. and every job i have had since college has been stuff i taught myself...

Core skills can totally be wasted. Armor modules on my cal scout? No thanks. Proto nanohives for my sentinel? Also no. Shield modules for my Gal heavy? Again, wasted.

Huh? So if you run cal scouts and gal heavies you need both shields and and armor. (I know what you really mean)

More seriously, are you really not going to use any armor modules at all on Caldari suits? Ever? Not even if they fix reactives/ferroscales?

Yeah, sure, eventually- but if the point is that we're re-doing our SP choices due to drastic changes in suit functionality, upgrades need to be re-chosen too. I can change my suit to a Cal suit, but if I'm a month away from having proto shield extenders (because what armor tanker would even touch that tree?), that's a brutal wait. The whole issue could be avoided by just giving a core upgrade respec.
Also, my point about equipment stands.

Yeah, sure, eventually- but if the point is that we're re-doing our SP choices due to drastic changes in suit functionality, upgrades need to be re-chosen too. I can change my suit to a Cal suit, but if I'm a month away from having proto shield extenders (because what armor tanker would even touch that tree?), that's a brutal wait. The whole issue could be avoided by just giving a core upgrade respec.
Also, my point about equipment stands.

Personally, I would love a full respec to leave the life of a tanker and join the ranks of logibro's come 1.8. I know it's probably not going to happen, but a man can dream, right?