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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Zaaeed Massani
Zincress
8
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Posted - 2014.02.21 21:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
Here's my take on a SP refund, as a player intimately familiar with MMO's and FPS games but new to the EVE Universe (just under 5M SP):
First off, discounting any and all arguments that lack logical points, the number of relevant arguments against a refund shrink dramatically. All of those left are purely subjective, unless I missed some (which is entirely possible, given the ridiculous volume of spam about the topic that has popped up in recent weeks). The only truly logical, objective arguments I've seen endorse a full SP refund of the Dropsuit Command, Dropsuit Upgrades, and Weapons trees. The case can be made that only Heavies, Scouts, and Heavy Weapons should be refunded, though I must admit I'm firmly in the camp that supports a full SP refund for all three previously mentioned meta-trees. Here's why:
I started playing this game toward the end of 1.6. I thought I had been thorough, doing my research and choosing my specializations and all before even installing the game. I like the idea of supporting democracy, and so I rolled Gallente. I fight for the Federal Marines, and I support the Minmatar Republic in their ongoing fight against the Amarr and Caldari. As an avid RP'er, I specced into Gallente medium suits because I wasn't a huge fan of the low ehp of light suits and there were no Gallente or Minmatar Heavy suits. I chose to spec into Logistics because I've always enjoyed playing utility classes in previous MMO's. Yet I couldn't truly know what my playstyle would be until I got deeper into the game. As I did, I realized I'm much more suited to the assault play style than the logistics playstyle. And I still wish there was a Gallente Heavy. Unfortunately, I have a significant portion (roughly 10%) of my total SP put into suits that do not click with my playstyle.
All the background above is completely aside of the topic that many, many, logis are essentially having the rug yanked out from under them, the Minmatar logi pre- and post-1.8 being the prime example. I, for one, do not use scanners all that often. I run solo alot due to the times of day that I play, and when I do run with my corp I'm never the designated scanner. I prefer to shoot people and drop uplinks in strategic places, not heal other players and scan. Incidentally, based on the previous sentence it's easy (in hindsight) to pinpoint that I will most enjoy the assault, commando, sentinel, and scout suits. Assault likely being the most versatile.
As far as weapons and equipment go, I specced into every single piece of equipment because I thought I had to as a logi. I specced into most weapons to try them before realizing that I could just roll an alt and spec into each weapon tree then, and after a week have tried literally every weapon in the game at the advanced level.
TL; DR:
There is a lot of work to be done by CCP in the areas of balancing, matchmaking, and content expansion...but a SP refund of the meta-trees affected by the 1.8 update will go a long way toward fostering some goodwill in their playerbase. 30M+ SP vets are likely saving SP to grab their preferred proto gear as soon as 1.8 drops. Other players (such as your truly) do not have that luxury, as we are pretty much limited to advanced-level gear and are still working on acquiring prototype gear. Giving us the opportuntiy to streamline our SP choices will make a huge difference in our satisfaction with the game, even if our in-game performance isn't strongly affected. |
Zaaeed Massani
Zincress
13
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Posted - 2014.02.22 14:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
Grammar and punctuation are your friend. Let me clean that up for you a bit...
FarQue FromAfar wrote:Zaaeed Massani wrote:Here's my take on a SP refund, as a player intimately familiar with MMO's and FPS games but new to the EVE Universe (just under 5M SP): Then don't talk like you know anything, ok? Whatever you said was lost to the cyberspace when you said under 5 million SP. I am sure you had a good argument. but the fact is no matter how much SP you have I don't give a rats booty how much you saved to become this month's "Flavor Of The Month" and CRY and CRY that those "Blueberries" do not need a respec..... Just because YOU saved SP and play a losing "Lobby Shooter" and want to stay "Top Dog s" does not mean that the game has changed. But, YES IT HAS CHANGED!!!! Time for CCP to suck the respec BALLZ and let everyone change their SP to where THEY want. MANY have said, if the FoTM is just 1 more month like OP tanks, then let it be so. Because I can say open wholeheartedly that commando suits will not amount to a pile of poo in 2 months. If so then guess what? The dust CCP part of the game we honestly wanted with MTAC'S (See TitanFall) and PvE and an open EVE - Dust - EVE player market, with options to run with EVE players for ninja tactics on big EVE ships, and then the last Fan Fest with racial MCC's and fighter type ships other than dropships, MVAC's, etc seems not to be. ALL Racial suits is all they can deliver...and AR weapons???? WTF
There, that's better.
Now, allow me to enlighten you as to the degree of idiocy you displayed.
I am not a FotM fanboi. I am a RP'er through-and-through. I made my decision roll Gallente logi very carefully (as detailed in my above post which you clearly chose not to read. Moreover, I am 100% supportive of a refund of the three meta-trees affected by the proposed 1.8 changes.
Now, go bother someone else. Shoo! |
Zaaeed Massani
Zincress
23
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Posted - 2014.02.23 13:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Malkai Inos wrote:What i'm arguing against is the notion that respecs are a worthwhile feature in and on themselves.
See, I am and I'm not torn at the same time. [snip] It would definitely damage AUR sales, so for that reason alone it would never happen, but just speaking objectively, respecs really only hurt peoples roleplaying.
For the record, I am against respecs being implemented as a feature. I personally just want to streamline my SP choices.
But if they did make respecs a feature...one that cost Aurum...I wonder if it would still hurt Aurum sales. |
Zaaeed Massani
Zincress
24
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Posted - 2014.02.24 23:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:It sure would be nice for them to make a decision on this either way
I would hazard a guess that the decision is already made, they just haven't told us yet because they wish to delay the shitstorm that will result, regardless of their decision either way. |
Zaaeed Massani
Zincress
25
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Posted - 2014.02.26 15:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
GhostSoldierX wrote:1. Give me a respec (So I wont have to suffer the disgrace of miltia milk drinkers) 2. Get rid of militia vehicles 3. Raise the prise of tanks to deter anyone from half a**ing tanking P.s. all militia gear should just be removed they kind of devoid standard gear and if someone wants to try out something then i guess they'll have to buy the aurum version. Its a win/win 
1. Vehicles already got a respec, they don't deserve another one for 1.8. Perhaps the next update, but not 1.8.
2. This is a terrible idea. Get over yourself. You're not that special.
3. Fine. Not that it will fix anything. People in this game are rolling in dough.
P.S. removing all militia gear is also a terrible idea. Otherwise if someone wants to try something new, they have to spend SP to get into it. And let's not forget, then players new to the game would be forced to skill into weapons before even fighting, since there are no more militia items for them to use. Anyway, any variants other than the basic items aren't available as militia gear. Ex: if you want the breach AR or submachine gun, you have to skill into it. The militia system is fine as is. |
Zaaeed Massani
RisingSuns
25
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Posted - 2014.02.26 17:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Zaaeed Massani wrote:GhostSoldierX wrote:1. Give me a respec (So I wont have to suffer the disgrace of miltia milk drinkers) 2. Get rid of militia vehicles 3. Raise the prise of tanks to deter anyone from half a**ing tanking P.s. all militia gear should just be removed they kind of devoid standard gear and if someone wants to try out something then i guess they'll have to buy the aurum version. Its a win/win 1. Vehicles already got a respec, they don't deserve another one for 1.8. Perhaps the next update, but not 1.8. 2. This is a terrible idea. Get over yourself. You're not that special. 3. Fine. Not that it will fix anything. People in this game are rolling in dough. P.S. removing all militia gear is also a terrible idea. Otherwise if someone wants to try something new, they have to spend SP to get into it. And let's not forget, then players new to the game would be forced to skill into weapons before even fighting, since there are no more militia items for them to use. Anyway, any variants other than the basic items aren't available as militia gear. Ex: if you want the breach AR or submachine gun, you have to skill into it. The militia system is fine as is. Actually, removing MLT gear is EXACTLY what DUST needs, period. What we also need is a training room, where you can equip and operate all standard gear in the game without putting SP into it. BAM, the only excuse for this MLT garbage goes out the window, and we can finally start pushing towards a state of balance.
I find that perfectly acceptable.
Perhaps make the "training room" a linear combat situation that puts you in various situations that let you practice using the weapon. Because virtual shooting ranges in video games are silly IMHO.
Make it so, CCP.
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Zaaeed Massani
RisingSuns
25
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Posted - 2014.02.26 18:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Zaaeed Massani wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Zaaeed Massani wrote:GhostSoldierX wrote:1. Give me a respec (So I wont have to suffer the disgrace of miltia milk drinkers) 2. Get rid of militia vehicles 3. Raise the prise of tanks to deter anyone from half a**ing tanking P.s. all militia gear should just be removed they kind of devoid standard gear and if someone wants to try out something then i guess they'll have to buy the aurum version. Its a win/win 1. Vehicles already got a respec, they don't deserve another one for 1.8. Perhaps the next update, but not 1.8. 2. This is a terrible idea. Get over yourself. You're not that special. 3. Fine. Not that it will fix anything. People in this game are rolling in dough. P.S. removing all militia gear is also a terrible idea. Otherwise if someone wants to try something new, they have to spend SP to get into it. And let's not forget, then players new to the game would be forced to skill into weapons before even fighting, since there are no more militia items for them to use. Anyway, any variants other than the basic items aren't available as militia gear. Ex: if you want the breach AR or submachine gun, you have to skill into it. The militia system is fine as is. Actually, removing MLT gear is EXACTLY what DUST needs, period. What we also need is a training room, where you can equip and operate all standard gear in the game without putting SP into it. BAM, the only excuse for this MLT garbage goes out the window, and we can finally start pushing towards a state of balance. I find that perfectly acceptable. Perhaps make the "training room" a linear combat situation that puts you in various situations that let you practice using the weapon. Because virtual shooting ranges in video games are silly IMHO. Make it so, CCP. Honestly this game is being held back a LOT by not having PvE content. PvE content would allow for awesome tutorials, the above training room, and it would just make the game feel big. It's just kind of sad how little we've actually moved in the past 2 years. I'm not trying to say there haven't been improvements or even forward momentum, but when you break it down to what you actually do game in and game out, very little has changed in the past 2 years, aside from losing cool game modes.
Yeah having PvE would really expand the scope of the game, and would allow for an infinite number of fun possibilities.
Definitely one of my pet peeves with the game.
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Zaaeed Massani
RisingSuns
26
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Posted - 2014.03.01 15:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tallen Ellecon wrote:They told us more than 2 months before 1.8 what the changes would be. Since then there has been more than enough time AND an SP event to get the SP you'd need for a new suit and then some.
I suppose it never occurred to you that not everyone has enough SP to just save? Some of us still have gear central to our build that we're trying to obtain. A build whose role is changing drastically in 1.8.
A SP refund of the top three meta-trees is the only reasonable solution. |
Zaaeed Massani
RisingSuns
28
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Posted - 2014.03.04 16:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote:From what I understand, the respec is slated to cover weapon balance, suits, and equipment.
Link or it didn't happen. |
Zaaeed Massani
RisingSuns
28
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Posted - 2014.03.04 16:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:I wonder how many likes from the community logi bro will accumulate before we get a respec? 250? 400? Logibros a noob.... Ever see him play?  My 10 yr old is better.... No likes for Logibro until he stops sucking at the game hes developing. ?..
You might be surprised how often game dev's really aren't standout performers at the games they develop. It's not at all uncommon.
A friend of mine works for Rockstar. He really isn't all that good at any of their games. I take him to school just about every time. He isn't bad, but he's far from stellar.
EDIT: typo |
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Zaaeed Massani
RisingSuns
28
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Posted - 2014.03.04 17:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
Your post insinuated that there is a respec slated to occur. This has been neither confirmed or denied. A respec is what I was referring to when I said "Link or it didn't happen."
The changes have been confirmed, a respec has not.
Get over yourself. |
Zaaeed Massani
RisingSuns
28
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Posted - 2014.03.04 17:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
Duke Noobiam wrote:I'd like a respect.
All the arguments for both sides of the issue have been discussed at this point.
Personnaly, the reason I want it is that it would allow me to reclaim about 3 million wasted SP.
I just want to go back and max out armor, shields, core, engineering, and electronics upgrades.
Then sit back and watch the ebb and flow of weapons/suits while I save up my SP. |
Zaaeed Massani
RisingSuns
30
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Posted - 2014.03.04 17:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
I always chuckle to myself when I see people ask for a "respect". |
Zaaeed Massani
RisingSuns
30
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Posted - 2014.03.04 23:52:00 -
[14] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote:Zaaeed Massani wrote:
Your post insinuated that there is a respec slated to occur. This has been neither confirmed or denied. A respec is what I was referring to when I said "Link or it didn't happen."
The changes have been confirmed, a respec has not.
My appologies, Dusts gets a Respec called 1.8, it is OP and will kill me, I want one too now. I realize that i was thinking a respec would be good and placed the word in a spot it should not have been. Zaaeed Massani wrote:Get over yourself. Over itFixed.
LOL, between that gif and your post you just made my night.
Well played, sir. Well played.
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Zaaeed Massani
RisingSuns
33
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Posted - 2014.03.05 21:01:00 -
[15] - Quote
DROPSHIP CAPTAIN wrote: I should do my own respec i hate you
This sounds like a child yelling at their parent to me lol.
Let me know how your own respec goes.
Also...
Quote:Don't use it if you aren't willing to lose it. |
Zaaeed Massani
RisingSuns
33
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Posted - 2014.03.06 23:31:00 -
[16] - Quote
501st Headstrong wrote:What part of I don't have the SP to save are some people not getting? I do not have cores maxed. I do not have tanks maxed. I am saving up for those. I do NOT participate in fit of the month because I am saving for other stuff. I do not have SP to sit back and save for these new suits as I am trying to be competitive with people like Charolette who have double my SP.
A respec will at least allow me to try the new suits without having to hear all the "Rave" reviews.
Come on community, 50 pages!
I'm at roughly 5.4M SP and trying to compete with people that have 3-8x my SP.
Personally, if we get a respec, I plan to max out armor, shields, and PG/CPU. Which, incidentally, takes a hair over 5M SP. Then I'll sit back and wait to see if my beloved Minmatar Commando (ACR/MD) is as weak as it might seem on paper before I spec into it. I'm hopeful that the combination of the damage bonus to both of those weapons (in addition to the MD buff and the ACR's smaller damage nerf) might be worth the significantly lessened health pool. |
Zaaeed Massani
RisingSuns
36
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Posted - 2014.03.07 16:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
Awry Barux wrote:At this point all I really ******* want is an announcement one way or the ******* other. It's a simple executive decision, and it seems absolutely disrespectful to keep us in the dark like this.
+1 |
Zaaeed Massani
RisingSuns
38
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Posted - 2014.03.08 00:10:00 -
[18] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:Piraten Hovnoret wrote:
AL argument that is agsinst respec are plain and simple dumb.
Wy give tanks a full respec but not infantry?
Bla bla bla remaking the skill three, what the hel this is acactly the same thing.
Bla bla bla vets vill got fotm, WTF vets have a cuple of Miljon sp saved already they have 45+ miljon sp and they have al the sh-ít they need already.
I am done with this topic now if you are against respec your plain and simple mental.
Respec or I am done with this game haven't spent almost a year investing time and effort to get that thrown out the window over a patch.
I am going to start hiding all the people's post whom say they are going to quit so I can see how long they last.
I've already uninstalled. |
Zaaeed Massani
RisingSuns
38
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Posted - 2014.03.08 02:43:00 -
[19] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:Zaaeed Massani wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Piraten Hovnoret wrote:
AL argument that is agsinst respec are plain and simple dumb.
Wy give tanks a full respec but not infantry?
Bla bla bla remaking the skill three, what the hel this is acactly the same thing.
Bla bla bla vets vill got fotm, WTF vets have a cuple of Miljon sp saved already they have 45+ miljon sp and they have al the sh-ít they need already.
I am done with this topic now if you are against respec your plain and simple mental.
Respec or I am done with this game haven't spent almost a year investing time and effort to get that thrown out the window over a patch.
I am going to start hiding all the people's post whom say they are going to quit so I can see how long they last. I've already uninstalled. Then I will hide all your posts because if you don't play then you shouldn't be contributing to any discussions and the ones you do add to should be ignored because you clearly don't care enough to play so why should your comments be regarded as anything but trolling or totally inaccurate because you don't play the game. Looks like you lost DUST514, if you come back to the forums or play after uninstalling because you are mad, stating that you quit or anything in that vein. DUST514 beat you. No need to respond because all of your post are hidden and considered useless if you don't play the game.
Well, perhaps I should have given some background.
I work full time. I commute to school full time. I have capped out a grand total of twice since I started playing in 1.6. I don't get to play often.
Oh yes, and my grandfather died on Tuesday.
All of the above, combined with the sub-par gaming experience of DUST has motivated me to take a short leave of absence so that I can do a more effective job of caring for my family, focusing on my schoolwork, and focusing some extra time on my training (I'm a competitive endurance athlete). Hopefully when I come back there will have been a SP refund...if not, then at least I have some passive boosters rolling and I'll have a few more SP to play with.
If you truly have hidden this and all of my posts, then you won't know how much of an ******* you are -- but everyone else will. And that makes me chuckle.
P.S. I only just uninstalled a couple hours ago, after suffering through a number of matches infested with RR Sentinels and super-tanks. So I'm perfectly up-to-date on the DUST experience. The game hasn't beaten me, quite the opposite in fact. I put the game in time out for the time being. |
Zaaeed Massani
RisingSuns
38
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Posted - 2014.03.08 04:43:00 -
[20] - Quote
Malkai Inos wrote:Zaaeed Massani wrote:Well, perhaps I should have given some background. [...] No, no you really shouldn't. At the very least for your own sake. The Robot Devil made some unhelpful assumptions about your person but your response can only lead to further personal attacks that are entirely immaterial to the subject discussed in this thread.
Eh, I'm not worried about myself in the context of this community. Dabble in online forums long enough and you develop a thick enough skin that even the most caustic of personalities can't do squat to you. I really just wanted to accentuate his assumptions.
Personal attacks worry me naught...however, you are absolutely right in that what I said is immaterial to the thread at this point so I will forgo further explanation.
May the thread go on! |
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Zaaeed Massani
RisingSuns
40
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Posted - 2014.03.12 19:42:00 -
[21] - Quote
While I appreciate the dropsuit command respec, I certainly think that a full infantry respec was in order. I feel that CCP dropped the ball here, but the solution is simple. I'm still planning to take a bit of time off and let my passive boosters continue to roll and do their job. When I come back I'll be able to get my core skills all maxed and then get my Minmatar Commando.
Cheers. |
Zaaeed Massani
RisingSuns
41
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Posted - 2014.03.13 01:09:00 -
[22] - Quote
Seriously, I strongly endorse those who really, really want a more full respec just walk away from the game for awhile. keep your passive SP rolling and just come back in a month or two, hopefully not too far out from 1.9, and have plenty of SP waiting for you.
Easy solution.
While the case can definitely be made that CCP owed us a Dropsuit Upgrades and Weaponry respec as well, we didn't get one. Tough ****. I think we were owed more. I think CCP dropped the ball. However, crying about it clearly isn't going to fix anything, because if after 56 pages and 1120 comments of overwhelming support for a refund of all SP invested in the top three meta-trees didn't get it, a few more forum tears won't, either.
So buck up and either 1) play the game, earn more SP, and invest in the skills you want, or 2) take some time off (as I am doing, though for other, personal reasons) and come back in a month or two to a boatload of SP waiting for you.
If anything, the excessive crying now that we received a partial respec is pushing me toward the anti-respec crowd's camp. You wanted X, Y, and Z. You got X. Be grateful.
I think in the future I may just prefer that CCP lay out a blanket rule that says no respecs, EVAR! It would certainly make all of this simpler.
EDIT: more specific page/comment count |
Zaaeed Massani
RisingSuns
41
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Posted - 2014.03.13 01:10:00 -
[23] - Quote
Andrew Ka wrote:Vulcanus Lightbringer wrote:
In the future, if a new dropsuit is announced, we'd likely get all racial variants at once.
Likely, based on what? I'm hesitant to give this statement any agreement. I definitely hope it's true, but if wishes were fishes...
I would certainly hope that CCP learned from the shitstorm that ensued with 1.8.
But I suppose this is CCP.
You're right, I'd be hesitant, too... |
Zaaeed Massani
RisingSuns
43
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Posted - 2014.03.13 03:36:00 -
[24] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Part of me feels like CCP didn't give us enough of a respect. As mentioned, if I'm moving from amarr sentinel to caldari sentinel, I don't need all those armor upgrades anymore. Likewise, if certain suits are getting bonuses with certain weapons, then a weapons respect would go along with it.
However, the other part of me is thankful that we at least got a dropsuit command respec. Its better than getting nothing refunded at all.
If more people felt like this, the people hating on those who want a respec would have oh so much less ammunition against us. |
Zaaeed Massani
RisingSuns
47
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Posted - 2014.03.13 17:54:00 -
[25] - Quote
Honestly, you guys need to give it a rest. The vast majority of the forum community agrees with you, but the decision has been made. The constant recurring whining will change nothing. So please, for the love of God, knock it off! |
Zaaeed Massani
RisingSuns
47
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Posted - 2014.03.13 18:08:00 -
[26] - Quote
ThePlayerkyle13 wrote:Zaaeed Massani wrote:Honestly, you guys need to give it a rest. The vast majority of the forum community agrees with you, but the decision has been made. The constant recurring whining will change nothing. So please, for the love of God, knock it off! You're allowing it to happen? God, this is why most of the government is taking your liberties, you can't let this crap happen, either if it's a company, corporation or government.
I am? Man, I can't wait to hear this explanation... |
Zaaeed Massani
RisingSuns
70
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Posted - 2014.03.30 23:23:00 -
[27] - Quote
Unsubscribing.
This thread needs to die. |
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