Of course they do and it is because every other game does it in one shape or another. No other game I am aware of does their universe like New Eden and people can't handle it. They want what they want and they want to change it when they want and New Eden doesn't always work that way.

"The entire forums is only a loud minority, as is the subset of people who would take the time to fill out a poll on Dust. The fact is, players from every segment of the game's population have come out to support respecs, and that is as close to a majority mandate as we can come."

A loud minority shouldn't rule, ever. The owner, best qualified, duly elected or a representative of majority should dictate what should happen. Democracies fail like communism, it looks good on paper and it works for a while but once the entity hits a certain age or population it fail cascades back to its roots or dies all together. Letting the players totally dictate this game is the worst mistake CCP could make. 10 years of EVE didn't come from players dictating game development, it came from players interacting with the developers.

I completely agree with you Robot, but the game was released too early and has too little content for this to be true IMO. If you didnt have any choices but one, how can you "live with your choices"?

Im gonna compare this whole debate with buying a high end cell phone, it might not be exactly what you want in 3 years time (you-¦re looking for that extremely cool new cell phone with all those cool features). The difference between this example and Dust 514 SP is that the developers of the cell phone did not go in and downgrade your screen from 5" to 2", 64x48 pixel resolution instead of 720p and at the same time switching out the Cortex based microcontroller with a ****** 8 bit PIC MCU.

You, who work with electronics, should understand this example clearly.

Myself, I have a MSc Eng in ICT with specialization towards digital signal processing. I work with underground navigation systems.

If you want to get down to release we could argue that the weapons and suits are released in some type of lore way. I am not huge into lore so please forgive my blatant ignorance. Lets say we are the first few versions of clones and if the Amarr were the first to have this tech then they released the heavy suit, the other races developed suits to try to counter the heavy and that is why we only have a handful of tech and some have suits missing. They can make up any kind of lore they want as long as it goes with the main narrative. These new suits are the next generation of clone equipment and have new and different skill sets and attributes because the engineers of New Eden has seen the need for these suits in the past year.

Now that my BS is out of the way. I agree with a SP refund IF ALL THE SUITS are released at once or the skill is removed. If they are released or rebalanced one at a time then I don't think a refund is needed. A slow trickle and gradual change isn't that big of a deal but if they are going to change the entire bonus set and racial line up on one patch then they should give us the SP. It isn't fair that players wanted to play a race and couldn't but you know me, life isn't fair.

I just come to this thread to make people type because the amount of passion or the lack of thought amazes me. Don't get me wrong passion is good but we have to weed out passion from lack of thought. CCP reads all this splork and they will do what they want because it is their game. I really don't care if they give a refund or not, I just like arguing for NO RESPEC. It makes me smile. I like causing instantaneous, uncontrollable outbursts of emotion. My friends either call me a pimp or the devil. I was called out by a palm reader in the middle of a Russian bizarre for being the devil when I was like 15 and was doing an exchange student kind of thing.

Reported For Trolling

He's playing the role of devil's advocate, and playing it well. It's useful- he's helped refine the arguments as to why a respec is warranted. If CCP just saw a bunch of blathering on here, it likely wouldn't sway their opinion. But if CCP sees their internal arguments against one advanced by a forum member and then responded to in a logical, reasonable way, we may actually get what we want and deserve.

Unwad thy panties.

He's playing the role of devil's advocate, and playing it well. It's useful- he's helped refine the arguments as to why a respec is warranted. If CCP just saw a bunch of blathering on here, it likely wouldn't sway their opinion. But if CCP sees their internal arguments against one advanced by a forum member and then responded to in a logical, reasonable way, we may actually get what we want and deserve.

Unwad thy panties.

Due to the excesive spamming of topics related to the possibility of a respec, all discussion about respecs must take place in this thread. This includes any posts in support or against a respec. Any other topics anywhere else on the forums will be locked or deleted, and linked to this thread, and repeated starting new topics may result in a warning or bans as per the forum rules.

Note that this is not a confirmation that we will or will not be providing a respec in 1.8, this is merely a venue to discuss it.

All I am saying is time spent makes it real. History isn't tangible either, we can't interact with it, change it or anything like that and we consider it real. Most of history isn't recorded in detail or on some piece of paper but that doesn't make it not real. Time is the only real thing we have because if you don't have time you are dead.

BECAUSE YOU GUYS ARE CHANGING ALMOST EVERYTHING ABOUT THE GAME!!!

Rikaato Hako Suuolo Kirjuun

This is the SIMPLEST and most TRUE axplenation.

I don't know how that's relevant to anything in a video game.

The only thing that matters is how much SP you have, because that's what you've worked for. If CCP wants to stop respec culture, then they need to stop shuffling around everyone's roles.

It's one thing to nerf / buff things by a few % here and there.

It's another thing entirely to continually show your player base that you don't even have a stable foundation to build upon.

Show us that you're committed to making a persistent universe, and then we can talk about persistent decisions.

I 100% totally agree. Changing everything at once does make a repec almost mandatory. It all goes back to content. The suits weren't there and players weren't given an opportunity to choose what they wanted or liked. The worst part about a refund would be that about 4-6 weeks after deployment all the suits will probably change in some way and we are going to be back here. Been reading this topic for over a year now and it is the same thing over and over.

Time to address the FoTM argument for the millionth time. *yawn*
Vets are sitting on millions of unallocated SP, completely ready to jump on the 1.8 FoTM train whether there's a respec or not. There's no way to stop that. FoTM is inevitable.

The only players hurt by a lack of a respec are those who are still in the middle of skilling their first role, i.e. those with <10-15mil SP, who are going to have a comparatively huge portion of their SP tied up in suits, upgrades, and weapons that will be obsolete when the powerful new content is introduced.

A respec can only help even the playing field.

Also, I know that I, and many other players, want particular suits and playstyles regardless of whether or not they turn out to be FoTM. A respec will allow us to preserve our battlefield roles despite 1.8's complete role overhaul (i.e. min logi going from speed hacker / scout-logi to the designated heavy humper).

Most players with over 10 million SP don't really have too much "wasted" SP. Most vets know where to put their sp and specifically planned out builds to avoid any needless waste.

It's the newer players who tend to waste that SP. Giving them the chance to fix their mistakes, nevermind the chance to make informed decisions with the new foundation in place, can only serve to help them.

A vet switching from one maxed out 20 million SP build to another has virtually no effect on anything but that players own enjoyment.

What i'm arguing against is the notion that respecs are a worthwhile feature in and on themselves.

See, I am and I'm not torn at the same time.

First and foremost, I accept that CCP wants to have a persistent universe where your decisions matter. I can respect that, so long as they can respect it as well by only doing light balance passes instead of these drastic shake ups that we keep getting. From that perspective, I have not and do not argue even for annual respecs.

However, speaking strictly from a gameplay perspective, I literally can see absolutely no harm in allowing respecs at will. It literally has no effect on anyone but the person who is shuffling around their SP. All it lets them do is enjoy the game how they want to, plain and simple.

So, while I would never propose or ask for anything even close to that, I also don't see how it causes any damage in game. It would definitely damage AUR sales, so for that reason alone it would never happen, but just speaking objectively, respecs really only hurt peoples roleplaying.

See, I am and I'm not torn at the same time.

[snip]

It would definitely damage AUR sales, so for that reason alone it would never happen, but just speaking objectively, respecs really only hurt peoples roleplaying.

Due to the excesive spamming of topics related to the possibility of a respec, all discussion about respecs must take place in this thread. This includes any posts in support or against a respec. Any other topics anywhere else on the forums will be locked or deleted, and linked to this thread, and repeated starting new topics may result in a warning or bans as per the forum rules.

Note that this is not a confirmation that we will or will not be providing a respec in 1.8, this is merely a venue to discuss it.

i think we whould get 1 last respec (being warned that is the last). Also the respec option with aur is a good idea 4 days to come as it is a name change (is not like u cant get an identity change in the EVE univers blackmarket ) and personalization features like those on eve, these r good ways to get incomes on free to play games.

Why only one? What if they pull another across the board stat switch? Respects should be mandated whenever any changes to the meta are made. We cannot make informed decisions in how we place our sp when they are playing musical stats.

Why only one? What if they pull another across the board stat switch? Respects should be mandated whenever any changes to the meta are made. We cannot make informed decisions in how we place our sp when they are playing musical stats.

Because your definition would lead to a respec every single patch, leaving the skillsystem with basically no worthwhile function beyond a pointless powergrind.

At that point just gutting the SP system altogether and going with ordinary character levels would be more sensible as that is effectively what the progression would boil down to.

The market is full of games that do just that.


Again. Bad balance is bad balance is bad balance! Respecs have nothing to do with it.