So you chose a logistics suit for a bonus that didn't make any sense in the face of its intended role, of which there was a general consensus among players that it shouldn't have been there in the first place and that people have been waiting to be removed for almost half a year now.*

Was the logistics part of the suit even a central part of your decision making? If yes, then you still have your relevant core and EQ skills so that your suit will still fill its intented role decently and you can switch to your now preferred racial variant with minor hiccups. A respec would ease the pain but is hardly necessary.

If not, then I have very little simpathy for the emotional argument you bring forth.

* I'm not entirely happy with the specific changes to my logi suit either but that has no bearing what so ever on the wholly unrelated subject of respecs. If you disagree with the changes to the extent that you'd rather switch your class than keep playing the class, then asking for a respec is just avoiding the underlying issue, not solving it.

In all honesty, no, I didn't really get it to be a logi, at least that wasn't my main intention when I picked the suit. I liked the idea of having such a high armor repair rate as well as a sidearm, though I eventually started moving a bit further towards the logi playstyle and have found it to be quite fun. As for switching my class, I'm not doing it so much because of the changes, but rather that I'm just tired of having a slow suit that not only will longer have the bonuses that I specced into it for, but will also be focused entirely on uplinks (Something I usually end up doing anyways, but not because I want to) I play this game to have fun more often than not, and while I like winning, I'd much rather be in my scout suit than a logi. *Shrugs* Basically at this point, what the new bonuses regulate me to is drop uplinks, something I find very boring as it usually involves taking a dropship up to some high place or staying further away from the action to ensure the team actually has somewhere to spawn.


Long story short, I'd rather be playing a scout, but if I have to and we don't get a respec, I'll eventually put more points into the logi playstyle to make it better than what it is.

Thanks for the level headed reply.

I personally think that the drama we currently have, for the most part, could have been avoided and falls mainly under CCP's responsibility.

Many players find themselves with the prospect of having millions of SP invested in gear they won't use, because the old bonuses often failed to define a clear niche for the play style they were supposed to encourage and there's little they could do about it besides using foresight in a rather volatile environment.

With that said. The changes, while not perfect, pose a great leap in the right direction to give every frame the role it was supposed to promote all along. The roles have not so much been changed but rather fleshed out and the overall approach to fitting and playing the different classes, according to their intended role, has not changed on a fundamental level.

While i wouldn't throw a fit if a partial respec happened, the extend of these changes alone doesn't seem to mandate one (let alone a full refund). Both because it would be a precedent for future cases of suit/vehicle+skill bonus changes which will inevitably happen and because there's no reason to refund whole trees that are not affected in any direct way.

The only full refund i feel would be unequivocally for the better of Dust would be with the release of all missing racial variants. Doing this would help getting a balanced and diverse composition of suits/vehicles on the battlefield which should enrich the gameplay overall. Even the player market and economy would profit profit from a clean slate.*

I dearly hope this will be the case with 1.8 so this ongoing discussion can finally end. i've been around for two full respecs now and i didn't feel either had improved the game in any meaningful way. Quite the opposite.

The funny thing is: At that time i was the very kind of new player these respecs are supposed to help.

*Note that i am not talking about any individual player but about Dust as its own ecosystem.

It sure would be nice for them to make a decision on this either way

*Glances up at quote length* Well, this is getting long...

Honestly, I like the fact that CCP is trying to help the logi suit actually fulfill it's roll. The logi's right now are essentially better than the assaults in almost every way, more slots, more CPU/PG, and only at the cost of a few HP and hit points that can easily be surpassed with a single module or two. Plus they've got so many equipment slots, there's just not much of a reason to choose assault right now over a logi. The bonuses though just aren't really what I prefer. Not only that, but I can't help but think having the Amarr logi bonuses will actually discourage people from speccing into uplinks. After all, why get into something when militia and basic are all you need to be effective? 20 spawns for a basic uplink? Yes please. Advanced and proto? Who needs em.

I agree though, but I can't say I'm looking forward to waiting for CCP to release everything. I can't help but think that we're all basically play testers right now, paying CCP to test their game for them so they can work out the bugs. And yeah, I'm definitely one of those people who have a lot invested in things I don't use. A full respec would give me about 5 million to spare (possibly more) As for the respecs not really changing much... agreed. They really don't, it just allows players to specialize in the things they want a bit faster, regardless of whether or not they have 40 million SP. I know I only invested in things like the Minmatar logi originally and the assault rifles because there was nothing more fun to choose from at the time.

[...]
It's probably not the best thing though that my biggest reason for not wanting a full respec is so that the FoTM chasers will suffer for abusing certain aspects in the game that are/were unbalanced...

And I do enjoy being versatile, though at the moment, there's not much of a reason to choose an AR over a CR. The Tac rifle is okay I suppose, but until RR's get balanced, they're not really worth having. Same probably goes for a few other suits and items.

Question for all of you who do not want CCP to give a respec: Will that ruin the game for YOU? Will you stop playing because someone else was given a respec to fix their character that CCP drastically changed? Will you delete Dust from your PS3?

i lvoe these complaints abotu re-specs. when you get to my expericence and skillpoitn levle....thier just not worth it. sicne i can practially do everything i want to do. soif theres a respec i get skillpoints to go somewhere else if i dont like the changes or not happy with that skill. so i have no problems with a respec or not.

...seeing huge amounts of FoTM fittings after a respec...

Correlation does not imply causation.

Well, if items stay OP for a long time (which is the REAL FOTM PROBLEM) players will just grind SP to get that OP sh*t. Increase in FOTM builds might be correlated to a respec.

......but

The real FOTM problem is caused by game imbalance, not respecs.

Bascially correct but note the bolded statements.

FOTM chasing currently requires both time and effort. Since both could be spend otherwise, an opportunity cost is attached to the practice. Additionally, right now some things can theoratically be fixed before they ruin the soonGäó economy and everyone's game experience along with it.

Respecs make FOTM easier and thus more prevalent, worsening overall perceived balance.

This has already been observed two times now, no matter the monocausal/polycausal/correlative relation.

Ah, swarm launchers did not stay OP for a long time?
Forge guns easymode splash damage OHK infantry since beta?
Gallente assault rifles best weapon since closed beta (in one shape or another: First burst, then TAC, then regular when hit detection got fixed)?

I think people need to stop worrying about what other people are rolling and just enjoy the ufckin game, and if you notice that somethings OP just call it out like you already do and let CCP do their thing.

I've never been one to chase the flavor of the month, but i actually think it's good in it's own way because it shows the developers whats broke. The problem with that is when they get overzealous and bend people over with a giant purple nerf dildo, but that's a separate issue.

Will a respec spark a new wave of FOTM bullisht? Maybe, but it will also let CCP see what if anything is broken in 1.8, and allow them to get the jump on all the data they need to refine the game for the patch after that. And the faster they hammer out all the broken isht in the game the more likely we are to see new content in the near future, and that i think is a good thing.

What they see is a loud minority. In a poll which was hold not too long ago barely anybody cared about respecs.

Bascially correct but note the bolded statements.

FOTM chasing currently requires both time and effort. Since both could be spend otherwise, an opportunity cost is attached to the practice. Additionally, right now some things can theoratically be fixed before they ruin the soonGäó economy and everyone's game experience along with it.

Respecs make FOTM easier and thus more prevalent, worsening overall perceived balance.

This has already been observed two times now, no matter the monocausal/polycausal/correlative relation.

I think people need to stop worrying about what other people are rolling and just enjoy the ufckin game, and if you notice that somethings OP just call it out like you already do and let CCP do their thing.

Exactly. Respecs are in line with the continuous improvement/agile work methods that I certainly hope CCP are using.

Following player (like CCP do) and evaluating what happens after a respec is a great strategy (also a scientifically correct one IMO) to empirically improve the game.

As is the case with every single game, most people don't check the forums, let alone vote on polls. It's simply not true that barely anyone cares, most of the infantry in my corp that i've spoken to say they will either quit or play drastically less (a couple matches/week) if there is not a respec. I've walked away from the game a few times since release and I wouldn't hesitate to do it again and come back to 3 mil SP to put into something that I actually enjoy instead of being forced to grind out 2-3 months of SP in something I don't enjoy anymore.

I've spent a lot of money on this game already and I 100% would not spend any more if I knew this division of CCP would trade supporting community feedback for some more potential money through boosters while losing players of all SP ranges.

I'm against respecs because I read "If you give a mouse a cookie" and there are enough people who specced into Caldari Logis with TARs and Flaylocks after 1.0 asking for one. Luckily this isn't a democracy and I'm a grown man and can buy my own cookie.

Let's not create a culture of respec dependency, you'll only find disappointment.