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Ghost Kaisar wrote:

Kaeru Nayiri wrote:

Has anyone considered making both Armor plates and Shield extenders PERCENTAGE based instead of straight value?

Any suit with more base HP could get more from using them so the cap on HP would be a totally natural one. This would require revisiting all frames basic HP values but we could have really good stuff with this.

If shield extenders (or armor plates) were +10%, with stacking penalties, frames that are tanky stay tanky, frames that are light get a lot less, and abuse automatically becomes impossible. It also fits in perfectly since the modules are enhancing the frames built in performance, not adding new functionality.

Scout: 150 Shield +10% -> +15 HP and if you stack a second shield extender then stacking penalties begin as normal

Assault with 300 Armor +10% armor plate -> 330 Armor, adding another plate would stacking penalty

Heavy with 600 Shield +10% -> +60 HP, again, adding more would have stacking penalties from there.

Just an idea.

This has been brought up SEVERAL times.

Though I'm more of a fan of "Light, Medium, and Heavy" Shield Extenders / Armor plates.

Heavy frames would have the most CPU/PG, but their weapons and modules will cost a TON.

Mediums would be unchanged.

Lights would have the least, and would likely be forced to use "Specialist" weapons to run decent weapons. Their modules would be the cheapest in terms of PG/CPU

This would make it harder to HP tank out of a suits intended range. You wanna equip a heavy shield mod on a Med Frame? You better be willing to sacrifice a LOT of CPU/PG for it.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 178 post(s)
Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 316	Posted - 2014.12.15 19:31:00 - [26551] - Quote I figured it must've been proposed before, seems too simple. Thanks for clarifying.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 6622	Posted - 2014.12.15 20:09:00 - [26552] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Has anyone considered making both Armor plates and Shield extenders PERCENTAGE based instead of straight value? Any suit with more base HP could get more from using them so the cap on HP would be a totally natural one. This would require revisiting all frames basic HP values but we could have really good stuff with this. If shield extenders (or armor plates) were +10%, with stacking penalties, frames that are tanky stay tanky, frames that are light get a lot less, and abuse automatically becomes impossible. It also fits in perfectly since the modules are enhancing the frames built in performance, not adding new functionality. Scout: 150 Shield +10% -> +15 HP and if you stack a second shield extender then stacking penalties begin as normal Assault with 300 Armor +10% armor plate -> 330 Armor, adding another plate would stacking penalty Heavy with 600 Shield +10% -> +60 HP, again, adding more would have stacking penalties from there. Just an idea. This has been brought up SEVERAL times. Though I'm more of a fan of "Light, Medium, and Heavy" Shield Extenders / Armor plates. Heavy frames would have the most CPU/PG, but their weapons and modules will cost a TON. Mediums would be unchanged. Lights would have the least, and would likely be forced to use "Specialist" weapons to run decent weapons. Their modules would be the cheapest in terms of PG/CPU This would make it harder to HP tank out of a suits intended range. You wanna equip a heavy shield mod on a Med Frame? You better be willing to sacrifice a LOT of CPU/PG for it. It has definitely been brought up. And while I personally like the idea, to my memory, CCP has been on record as not liking the idea. I still agree with all of the above however. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 8958	Posted - 2014.12.15 20:34:00 - [26553] - Quote I think someone made a GJR alt and is using a script to like every single post in this monster. Possibly because they think it will trigger like farm alarms and hopes to get this locked. I dunno, but this seems fishy to me. Born Deteis Caldari. Rejected by my Kinsman. Found a new family in the Vherokior Tribe. Nobody messes with my family
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 6623	Posted - 2014.12.15 20:36:00 - [26554] - Quote Just noticed this. I think it is relevant to our discussion. CCP Rattati wrote: After reading this thread, and going back and forth on the numbers, I am not so sure any more that armor is overall more viable than shield tanking. I do know that high speed high tanked roles suffer from hit detection issues/high strafe speeds. I may tackle that instead of a HP nerf of plates or a smaller HP nerf. I want players to use reactives and ferros so they will not be touched. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
IAmDuncanIdaho II R 0 N 1 N 1064	Posted - 2014.12.15 20:56:00 - [26555] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: Got three kincats on my Minja, don't ask me how, I'm loving it. This is your Minja: Sup I'm gonna stab you. o7 This is your Minja stacking kincats: WAZUP BOY I TOOK OUT YOUR ENTIRE SQUAD HEY LOOK HEAVY GET FLANKED HEVIEZ MINJA RULES **** THOSE AMARR MAN WANKERS HEY LOOK A HACKER BOOOOM NOW YOU DEAD HOW YOU LIKE MY RE MOFO HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! KILL THAM ALLLLLL Speaking of assault lites... I paid for a respec recently (GOD YES I KNOW! :-o ) but damn am having fun in this game atm. Got rid of gal and cal L5 scout dropsuit trees, and specced all the way into min scout and gal assault. I wanted the assault suit to try out being an assault, to give me an alternative play style, but also because I wanted to see what it was like to be a "Scout heavy". So I made some fits with PEs, PDs, KCs, and a shotgun. I've got to try it a little more often to really get a feel for it, but it seems ok except for the range - the range blows and can make it pretty tough (though 1.10 might make that less of an issue) Stats: ADV - 538 eHP - 9.18 m/s sprint - 27 Precision - 24 Profile PRO - 538 eHP - 9.18 m/s sprint - 24 Precision - 20 Profile Obviously you can switch EWAR mods for HP mods for more tank, but on paper those give non-dampened scouts a run for their money. What do you guys think? If you saw those stats on paper and didn't know what type of suit it was, how would it compare to true scouts and faux asslite scouts? You must learn honor, or you deserve to learn nothing at all. ~ Rivvy Dinari - Swordmaster of Ginaz
hfderrtgvcd 1550	Posted - 2014.12.15 21:04:00 - [26556] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Has anyone considered making both Armor plates and Shield extenders PERCENTAGE based instead of straight value? Any suit with more base HP could get more from using them so the cap on HP would be a totally natural one. This would require revisiting all frames basic HP values but we could have really good stuff with this. If shield extenders (or armor plates) were +10%, with stacking penalties, frames that are tanky stay tanky, frames that are light get a lot less, and abuse automatically becomes impossible. It also fits in perfectly since the modules are enhancing the frames built in performance, not adding new functionality. Scout: 150 Shield +10% -> +15 HP and if you stack a second shield extender then stacking penalties begin as normal Assault with 300 Armor +10% armor plate -> 330 Armor, adding another plate would stacking penalty Heavy with 600 Shield +10% -> +60 HP, again, adding more would have stacking penalties from there. Just an idea. Rattati said "This will never happen" You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 6625	Posted - 2014.12.15 21:05:00 - [26557] - Quote It seems like the Assault is better off. For a scout to get that much tank, they have to sacrifice the profile. While you don't get near the profile, or range, you still get all that tank, which seems to be more of a factor than the other things, while being harder, though not impossible, to scan. Let us know how it plays. Also, that was ballsy to get rid of your Gal Scout and go for the Minja. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
IAmDuncanIdaho II R 0 N 1 N 1066	Posted - 2014.12.15 21:12:00 - [26558] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: It seems like the Assault is better off. For a scout to get that much tank, they have to sacrifice the profile. While you don't get near the profile, or range, you still get all that tank, which seems to be more of a factor than the other things, while being harder, though not impossible, to scan. Let us know how it plays. Also, that was ballsy to get rid of your Gal Scout and go for the Minja. Hah yeah well Minja was my first ever suit, and for some reason I only ever took it to L4. Decided I would no longer chase the best scout and go with the one that is most fun and nostalgic....happens to be the hardest LOL. When it's fun it's awesome, but a lot of games I do pretty bad. But those knife kills...... Anyway got 3.8m SP sitting around waiting...can't decide on whether to get PRO plasma cannon (coz I like trolling around in an Amarr Logi when the team gots no uplinkers) or go for a combat rifle...or maybe something else.....dunno...decisions decisions lol. You must learn honor, or you deserve to learn nothing at all. ~ Rivvy Dinari - Swordmaster of Ginaz
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1195	Posted - 2014.12.15 22:20:00 - [26559] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Just noticed this. I think it is relevant to our discussion. CCP Rattati wrote: After reading this thread, and going back and forth on the numbers, I am not so sure any more that armor is overall more viable than shield tanking. I do know that high speed high tanked roles suffer from hit detection issues/high strafe speeds. I may tackle that instead of a HP nerf of plates or a smaller HP nerf. I want players to use reactives and ferros so they will not be touched. I took this to mean that he has found Armor v Shield interplay to be closer to balanced than expected. I hadn't believed this to be the case, but PC data must be suggesting otherwise. As far as PC Heavies go, it wouldn't surprise me to see half a team running GA/AM Sentinel, and I can't recall the last time I saw an MN or CA Sentinel. On the other hand, I've lately seen more MN and CA Assault in competitive play than AM or GA. I still hope to see King HP reigned in a 'bit for the sake interplay with non-tanky builds, but perhaps now is not the time.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1195	Posted - 2014.12.15 22:26:00 - [26560] - Quote You guys notice the lack of Scout QQ in GD?

One Eyed King Land of the BIind 6627	Posted - 2014.12.15 22:29:00 - [26561] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Just noticed this. I think it is relevant to our discussion. CCP Rattati wrote: After reading this thread, and going back and forth on the numbers, I am not so sure any more that armor is overall more viable than shield tanking. I do know that high speed high tanked roles suffer from hit detection issues/high strafe speeds. I may tackle that instead of a HP nerf of plates or a smaller HP nerf. I want players to use reactives and ferros so they will not be touched. I took this to mean that he has found Armor v Shield interplay to be closer to balanced than expected. I hadn't believed this to be the case, but PC data must be suggesting otherwise. As far as PC Heavies go, it wouldn't surprise me to see half a team running GA/AM Sentinel, and I can't recall the last time I saw an MN or CA Sentinel. On the other hand, I've lately seen more MN and CA Assault in competitive play than AM or GA. I still hope to see King HP reigned in a 'bit for the sake interplay with non-tanky builds, but perhaps now is not the time. Perhaps that is the case for heavies because none of them can really strafe. At the faster ends of the spectrum, with Assaults and Scouts, Shields enable straffing more than Armor. Maybe once he gets that issue addressed he will be more able to make appropriate changes to shield and armor. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
thehellisgoingon The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 65	Posted - 2014.12.15 23:15:00 - [26562] - Quote A gk.0 scout with 3 complex damps has a 13 dB rating. With 4 complex damps it has a 13 dB rating. So the 4th is overkill/useless? I just don't like being scanned.
LeGoose SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 741	Posted - 2014.12.15 23:16:00 - [26563] - Quote Did anyone else just get a pile of likes from GJR in the early pages of the barbershop? I just got like 20. Thanks GJR! In other news. Played a few matches last night to get a feel for 1.10. Everything felt smooth and the fall off was both nice and annoying. I had a LAV sneak up on me while I was killing some BAR user. Overall everything feels good. Will have to do some note play testing. Click it! I dare you...
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1197	Posted - 2014.12.15 23:24:00 - [26564] - Quote thehellisgoingon wrote: A gk.0 scout with 3 complex damps has a 13 dB rating. With 4 complex damps it has a 13 dB rating. So the 4th is overkill/useless? I just don't like being scanned. With a proto cloak on a GalScout, you can to get to 11 dB with 4 damps vs 12 dB with 3. You are correct in that there's no meaningful difference. LeGoose wrote: Did anyone else just get a pile of likes from GJR in the early pages of the barbershop? I just got like 20. Thanks GJR! In other news. Played a few matches last night to get a feel for 1.10. Everything felt smooth and the fall off was both nice and annoying. I had a LAV sneak up on me while I was killing some BAR user. Overall everything feels good. Will have to do some note play testing. Yeah, Ghost reported the same. Sinboto put up a thread about it as well. Not sure if the bot was assigned to us or if it crawled here on its own. Looking forward to hearing more of your thoughts on 1.10. o7
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 6627	Posted - 2014.12.15 23:27:00 - [26565] - Quote thehellisgoingon wrote: A gk.0 scout with 3 complex damps has a 13 dB rating. With 4 complex damps it has a 13 dB rating. So the 4th is overkill/useless? I just don't like being scanned. Correct. You can't avoid all scans however with the new circle mechanic. That was by design, however you should only be scanned within a few short meters of the enemy, provided they are running all precision mods on the right suit. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
Bayeth Mal Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 2058	Posted - 2014.12.15 23:30:00 - [26566] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Just noticed this. I k it is relevant to our discussion. CCP Rattati wrote: After reading this thread, and going back and forth on the numbers, I am not so sure any more that armor is overall more viable than shield tanking. I do know that high speed high tanked roles suffer from hit detection issues/high strafe speeds. I may tackle that instead of a HP nerf of plates or a smaller HP nerf. I want players to use reactives and ferros so they will not be touched. I took this to mean that he has found Armor v Shield interplay to be closer to balanced than expected. I hadn't believed this to be the case, but PC data must be suggesting otherwise. As far as PC Heavies go, it wouldn't surprise me to see half a team running GA/AM Sentinel, and I can't recall the last time I saw an MN or CA Sentinel. On the other hand, I've lately seen more MN and CA Assault in competitive play than AM or GA. I still hope to see King HP reigned in a 'bit for the sake interplay with non-tanky builds, but perhaps now is not the time. That's probably due to armor sentinels+rep tools. From a team work perspective Armor is the way to go. Shields is better for solo. Also... Imagine your sentinel squad rolling down a corridor get pretty much wiped by a flux. thats why Cal got that really short recharge time. We'll bang, OK?
Spademan Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 5081	Posted - 2014.12.15 23:33:00 - [26567] - Quote LeGoose wrote: Did anyone else just get a pile of likes from GJR in the early pages of the barbershop? I just got like 20. Thanks GJR!. Aye, I got it too. Though not the real GJR. Or at least, not the original main account (which is now IGR) Seems to be Barbershop exclusive for the moment. I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
LeGoose SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 742	Posted - 2014.12.15 23:42:00 - [26568] - Quote Thanks guys. Saw ghosts post after I made mine. Should be interesting to see how that plays out. Click it! I dare you...
sir RAVEN WING Kaalmayoti Warzone Control 1894	Posted - 2014.12.15 23:44:00 - [26569] - Quote Nu likes 4 meh? Aw... n+ÅS¦¦Gùò V GùòS¦¦n++killer of cat merc/Feathered overlord of all. *My loyalty to the State is undying.* 215 boxes...0 keys
dzizur 6 dayz 136	Posted - 2014.12.15 23:50:00 - [26570] - Quote soo any ideas when do you break the magic barrier of dampening to not have a chevron even if someone is pointing at you?

Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1197	Posted - 2014.12.15 23:55:00 - [26571] - Quote sir RAVEN WING wrote: Nu likes 4 meh? Aw... Lots of pages for the bot to crawl through before it gets to last week :-) Salvage: 14x Encrypted Strongbox : /
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 6627	Posted - 2014.12.15 23:56:00 - [26572] - Quote sir RAVEN WING wrote: Nu likes 4 meh? Aw... I only got one, and it was at page 120 something. So they aren't for recent posts. Maybe this GJR name stealer is trying to Monk like his way through this thing. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 6627	Posted - 2014.12.15 23:58:00 - [26573] - Quote dzizur wrote: soo any ideas when do you break the magic barrier of dampening to not have a chevron even if someone is pointing at you? Line of site is always unbeatable while uncloaked. And while cloaked you need to be out of their range and/or beat their precision. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
dzizur 6 dayz 136	Posted - 2014.12.16 00:00:00 - [26574] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: dzizur wrote: soo any ideas when do you break the magic barrier of dampening to not have a chevron even if someone is pointing at you? Line of site is always unbeatable while uncloaked. And while cloaked you need to be out of their range and/or beat their precision. so I'm experiencing bugged scouts and assaults?
Pseudogenesis Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1046	Posted - 2014.12.16 00:14:00 - [26575] - Quote Spademan wrote: LeGoose wrote: Did anyone else just get a pile of likes from GJR in the early pages of the barbershop? I just got like 20. Thanks GJR!. Aye, I got it too. Though not the real GJR. Or at least, not the original main account (which is now IGR) Seems to be Barbershop exclusive for the moment. I got one from a post I made in a thread called "Nerf John Ripper" Stabby-stabber extraordinaire I stabbed Rattati once, you know.
Spademan Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 5081	Posted - 2014.12.16 00:20:00 - [26576] - Quote Pseudogenesis wrote: Spademan wrote: LeGoose wrote: Did anyone else just get a pile of likes from GJR in the early pages of the barbershop? I just got like 20. Thanks GJR!. Aye, I got it too. Though not the real GJR. Or at least, not the original main account (which is now IGR) Seems to be Barbershop exclusive for the moment. I got one from a post I made in a thread called "Nerf John Ripper" Just looked through mine and yeah, I got some there too. Guess I was wrong. That was my thread. I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 6628	Posted - 2014.12.16 00:26:00 - [26577] - Quote dzizur wrote: One Eyed King wrote: dzizur wrote: soo any ideas when do you break the magic barrier of dampening to not have a chevron even if someone is pointing at you? Line of site is always unbeatable while uncloaked. And while cloaked you need to be out of their range and/or beat their precision. so I'm experiencing bugged scouts and assaults? How so? Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
TritusX PH4NT0M5 58	Posted - 2014.12.16 01:39:00 - [26578] - Quote Hi. Any good, cheap Minja fits out there for your lowly minja scrub with no passives If only you could attach RE to yourself and kamikaze a tank
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 6628	Posted - 2014.12.16 01:50:00 - [26579] - Quote TritusX wrote: Hi. Any good, cheap Minja fits out there for your lowly minja scrub with no passives He has Dampening level 5, which is most important, but I figured I would have him get some advice from someone other than me. New Eden is cruel enough for my advice to be the only scout's he gets. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3152	Posted - 2014.12.16 02:29:00 - [26580] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Just noticed this. I think it is relevant to our discussion. CCP Rattati wrote: After reading this thread, and going back and forth on the numbers, I am not so sure any more that armor is overall more viable than shield tanking. I do know that high speed high tanked roles suffer from hit detection issues/high strafe speeds. I may tackle that instead of a HP nerf of plates or a smaller HP nerf. I want players to use reactives and ferros so they will not be touched. I took this to mean that he has found Armor v Shield interplay to be closer to balanced than expected. I hadn't believed this to be the case, but PC data must be suggesting otherwise. As far as PC Heavies go, it wouldn't surprise me to see half a team running GA/AM Sentinel, and I can't recall the last time I saw an MN or CA Sentinel. On the other hand, I've lately seen more MN and CA Assault in competitive play than AM or GA. I still hope to see King HP reigned in a 'bit for the sake interplay with non-tanky builds, but perhaps now is not the time. The reason you don't see them is HMG eats armor like a small child eats chocolate covered caramels. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.



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